The Leadership Skill No One Teaches (But Everything Depends On) w/Shubam Gautam

What if the biggest challenges in senior living aren’t operational…
 but invisible?

In this powerful episode, Erin sits down with Shubam Gautam—a former monk, physician, and senior living operator—to unpack what leadership actually requires inside a community.

From clinical care to culture, from burnout to belonging—this conversation goes beyond strategy and into the human side of leadership that drives real results.

If you’ve ever felt the weight of:

•  Leading a stretched team 
•  Supporting overwhelmed families 
•  Making high-stakes decisions in real time 

This episode will change how you think about leadership.

What You’ll Learn:

•  Why root cause thinking matters more than quick fixes 
•  The real reason occupancy and culture struggle
•  How to lead without control—and why it works 
•  The connection between energy, presence, and performance
•  Why your team is your first customer
•  How small daily actions shape long-term results 

You can follow Shubam Gautam here: LinkedIn profile

Learn more about the 100% Leader here 

New ED's Playbook to Creating and IMpactful Community Cultrue

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Transcript

Erin 0:00

Welcome to another episode of Aspire For More with Erin. Folks, we're gonna have a good one today. you and I both know that there is no other leadership role, like senior living period, right? Um, we're running a business, managing a team, navigating regulations, dealing with families and residents and associates, going through really hard times and at the same time. We're expected to do all of that while leading people through the final chapter of their life. It's not just a chapter in their life. It really could potentially be the final chapter of their life. So it is, this role is so much different than any other type of leadership role than we can have. And this conversation today is gonna touch just that topic, and it's something that we don't talk about enough. So today's conversation is about the intersection of clinical care, operational leadership, and the human reality of what this job actually requires. It's my three Rs, the regulatory, the relationship, and the real estate business that is the senior living industry. So if you. This episode is for you. If you've ever felt the weight of this role. When a resident declines, when a family member is overwhelmed, when your team is stretched thin. When you are stretched thin, and when you have to make these decisions that affect real life in real time and not feeling real prepared, you're not alone. That is what we're gonna talk about today with my guest. Thank you for being here and listening to this conversation. Let me introduce you a guest that I've never really had, before on a show on our show, so it's exciting. His name is Shaban Gotham, and he's not your typical senior living executive. he is a guest unlike any other that I have ever had on this program. At 12 years old, he spent two years as a monk and a Buddhist monastery in the Himalayas. At 16, he entered medical school. At 21, he was practicing surgeon and a physician in India, and at 25 he moved to the United States and made one of the most unexpected pivots in healthcare, which is quite shocking. He traded the operating room for the nursing home floor. Today, shabam holds both an MD and a licensed nursing home administrator's license. Have we ever heard that before? With two decades of operational leadership across skilled nursing, assisted living, memory care, and the full continuum of care of CRCs. He's the founder of the Mindful Operator, a brand built around one belief that the most important work happening in senior living is the work nobody can measure, and that's the conversation that we are having today. He has led occupancy turnarounds, rebuilt, broken cultures, and set in the room when families made the hardest decisions of their lives. He has done all of this with the same stillness of someone who once chose silence as a monk over everything else. Ladies and gentlemen, it is shabam. How are you? Welcome to the program.

Shubam 3:25

Thank you. Thank you, Erin. That was a wonderful introduction and I cannot thank you enough for having me on this show, and podcast. So I'm open to the conversation which we are gonna have. But I really wanna start by saying something that, something that I really learned when I started my career in healthcare, and I want all the listeners to take this with them. Just if they want to take one thing with them before the podcast end, is that whenever we are working in healthcare in any building, hospital, doctor's office, don't treat the fever. You, you need to treat the infection, which might be ugly in the initial phases, but once you treat that, the symptoms will automatically go away. and that we see frequently when we entered our buildings. Like we look at the, or the census numbers and the culture is not right and there is always a turnaround and revolving door, but we never pay attention. We don't have time to pay attention to what is the root cause of why these numbers are projecting. Mm-hmm. So once we start focusing on those root causes and take time and patience to build the trust within the team members, that is gonna reflect on the care that our residents get. Mm-hmm. And that is gonna reflect on the numbers automatically. One thing is extremely important, which is not asked in any kind of interview questions. Mm-hmm. Which is not taught in any leadership trainings, but it really happens and it's the invisible work that we generally see that is non-measurable. But we feel that, okay, this has been happening in the, in the background, but we never focus on that diligently to make sure, okay, we are getting the results we want. Yes. That's my 2 cents

Erin 5:15

root cause analysis

Shubam 5:17

Yep.

Erin 5:17

Is the biggest secret that no one talks about. like you said, no one talks about it enough, and I think a lot of people. Don't wanna do the digging and the work that it requires to go get to the root. Would you agree with that?

Shubam 5:36

digging, takes a lot of patience. Digging takes a lot of emotional turnover within yourself. Acceptance, and that is where you find the problems. And then you have to. And do the deep conversations, which you might want to avoid, but those are the things that really start developing the confidence in the teams who are actually. We're actually in touch with the residents. So that, so my thought process I've seen constantly is that who is my biggest customer in the building? It is actually my, my team, who is my biggest customer because I cannot reach my residents all the time because my team is with them 24 hours. Mm-hmm. So I want to build replicas of myself. Who work the same way that I do and it projects on the good care that residents get, but it's, it's ugly. But if it's done right with patients, I can guarantee you the results are great.

Erin 6:34

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so before we dive into that topic a little bit deeper, because that's where we're going, I do wanna talk about this at 12 years old, like I knew that you had went to study to be a monk, but I did not realize it was at 12 years old.

Shubam 6:52

So that was really a little bit about myself was that I was never good at sitting and studying and I was, I was a problem child. I have a brother, and my mom was like, what are we gonna do with him? He is not disciplined and he doesn't study. And I was failing in school and it's like, unless there is an emergency, I, I would just sit and just study and pass the exam. But I was not interested in that at all. So my parents to discipline me. It's a cultural thing that they send you to a monastery like you. You need to have discipline in your life, and I can share. For the first year, I was totally like, where am I? I'm, I don't belong here. But eventually the results, when they start showing about how you are disciplined and how you're becoming calmer and calmer, it just changes the whole perspective, how you look at the world, you stop running, your vision changes from. Outside inward to in, to focusing on inside. So you change your inside self and that reflects automatically on what's happening around you. So it's, it's like, you, if a flower has blossomed you, it cannot prevent itself from spreading. The, the odor, the nice things that it can offer. So it's automatic, but if, if you try to fix it from outside by doing everything. The root is the root problem is still there. You are just cutting the stump and it's gonna come out in a bad way later on. So take the wrong stuff out from the root, and then all you're left is with that, that good things and your confidence, your persona, your calmness, which is the most viral thing that happens when people see you and they, they ask sometimes I've been asked, what's different? Why are you so calm? Because technically I really cannot change anything, which is not under my control. So it's better to be calm, so I think that I was retaliating it at that point, but I think it has been helpful to me till now. And I, of course, I continue my practice till now, but it was one of the biggest decision that changed my life to the positive direction. So

Erin 9:04

I will tell you. I am not a monk, nor did I go to a monastery to be a monk. But what you just described is how every leader, what every leader should do the root cause analysis for the community and the culture change. Sure. But the root cause analysis to, for you to be able to be aware enough to say, I cannot control what I cannot control and I can influence more people. By being the best version of myself than I ever could and trying to make people change or control people. Because when you realize you can't do that and all you can do is make yourself better, then your entire world opens up and you don't see limitations. All you see are opportunities to grow.

Shubam 9:57

you have just said the same thing from a totally different angle, but it fits totally. It's just like flip of a coin, but it's the same coin and what. What we, what I have seen the mistake happens is that when we get these titles about leadership, we think we, are in a job of controlling Yes. That's where the failure happens. Yes. But if we're, if we leave that alone and we start focusing on how can I work with this particular staff member or my manager, that they become the best version of themselves. You are actually a successful person because now they will do the things that you, really want them to do. So it's not about you, it's about them. But that starts with focusing on yourself first. So

Erin 10:43

yes,

Shubam 10:43

that's where the root is really lying, underlying, unseen process.

Erin 10:48

Yeah, and I think a lot of that when we talk about the root causes of why a community isn't successful or. Growing or needs different leadership is that our families and our residents want the same thing from us. Yep. They want us to be able to guide them and if we can't guide them or offer them support or give them guidance or say hello to them or whatever, then they're constantly filling gaps of communication inside of their heads with negativity. Sure. And if we don't feel comfortable, we avoid. You know, or if we don't want to take accountability or responsibility for something we avoid, and now all of a sudden here's a root cause. I'm sure you see a lot in turnarounds from that perspective.

Shubam 11:40

the biggest problem is if, if I'm running from doing something, it's that something that I really need to focus on and get it done. That is a biggest signal, and if I'm avoiding it, I think I should focus on it so that mindset changes a lot of things. And to your point, that, When families come to us, they are coming to us, giving us the most prized possession of their life, their parents, and what they're expecting from us to find a solution for them. And it's our job to have that. Difficult conversations when needed that this is the right time. Plus giving them the confidence that I might not be the best person, but I will try to be the best person for your mom and dad. It's that, that trust level, it goes beyond anything like numbers don't matter at that time.

Erin 12:31

Mm-hmm.

Shubam 12:31

And that, that. That culture is, is like it spreads around that feeling. The vibe spreads around the team starts feeling it. That if the leadership is feeling a certain way that we are in this because we are also gonna get old someday. So we should do this right now to understand about our own old age. then the, the reactions come naturally and it's always a positive thing that everybody tries to do. Mm-hmm. So it's a ripple effect that I've seen.

Erin 13:03

Yeah. It's the influence.

Shubam 13:04

Yes.

Erin 13:05

You know, unrelenting pressure does not bear fruit that any of us want and that any of our family members want. But the influence of spreading, Joy and peace and love and respect and, belonging, all those things. And that requires a lot of peace on the inside. For sure.

Shubam 13:23

You, you just mentioned a word belonging. Mm-hmm. That if, that is a huge word for each and every team members that we have. If they feel a sense of belonging, they, you can automatically see that they're gonna do the best of themselves. Everybody needs to be, wants to be a part of something. They don't want to be the leader all the time, but they want to be a part of something big that they made that difference coming to a point where they feel that they're a part of this whole building and it cannot run without them, is when they get the best performance I have seen. Mm-hmm. And with the other team members, with the families. It. It happens everywhere on the floor. It's a constant thing. I see.

Erin 14:11

Yes. Very true. Okay, so we've talked about the really cool monk story. Now let's talk about your, another facet of your story, which is fascinating. You were a physician. Yes. And then you came to the United States and saw what was happening and was like, I think I would rather be. I would rather in the community tell me this story because now we're gonna dive into your vision, your perspective, and how all of this happened. So,

Shubam 14:43

so this

Erin 14:44

is,

Shubam 14:44

tell

Erin 14:44

me that

Shubam 14:44

this is all, this will make sense and everything is gonna get interconnected because when I came to us, my, initially I was studying to be a physician and I was studying for my US MLEs and everything, and. I, I would say that nature has its own way of doing things and it was taking me some time to get through all the exams and I was working at the same time, making money and all that to survive. And luckily I got in touch with a doctor who said, would you like to come with me and would you like to help me with my business because I'm starting a new practice. I was like, okay, I'll just take a leap of faith. I will start with you and I, it was a two people team. I was the business development person, so I was going to these nursing homes. I was going to hospital hospices, pretty much senior every, everything you can think of. And I am seeing things. Which at somewhere in my heart I am like, this could have been done in a different way because I was spending a lot of time and I was like, this doesn't make sense how the care is being provided. How, how a human being should be treated like a human being, not as a number. And luckily, from my childhood, of course, everybody needs money. Money's not always the primary factor driving factor in my life. so I was like, I need to feel content too when I go home. That's when I started talking to administrators. I talk, to the dns, and I realized that they're so much stuck with the. With the metrics, with the deadlines and everything. And when I asked a simple question, so what happened to this resident that came in a few weeks ago? They had very little knowledge because they, they would have to open the system and I'm like. Where is the connection? Where is the connection with the resident? Is it your computer? That is the connection. And I'm not saying they were doing a bad job at all. They were very good at their job, but the connection was through the system that was in the computer looking at everything but the human touch, like sitting next to the resident holding their hand and all that was missing. And I'm like, I can do this. And that's when I got, I was like, I'm gonna apply for the administrator's license. My education was enough to just sit in the exam. I passed it and I started as a social service assistant, and that gave me a, like a, a foundation of dealing with the problems of the residents when they are in a community and dealing with the families. Then that's when my eyes open that there is a lot more happening on the emotional level. Mm-hmm. On the staff. Staff emotional level, resident emotional level, and family emotional level, which is not addressed. And luckily my, I got promoted to the administrator. I learned everything on the job and there was no looking back, it was like when you feel fulfilled by something you're doing. You don't want to go back and I keep getting this question, are you still gonna apply to be a doctor? I'm like, no, I'm not. I'm happy. So I kept on doing it and eventually the doors kept on opening up and that's when I really enjoy working with people in making a better. Making them a better version of themselves. Yeah. And my results show because of that. So that's what I like to do and it automatically, like I said, nature plays its own role. So that's how my journey, went by and I'm just in a good place. I've come home and I'm happy. There are days, but there are more good days than bad days.

Erin 18:26

There are days.

Shubam 18:27

Yeah.

Erin 18:27

And there are days,

Shubam 18:28

Yeah. All of us have been through those days, but at the end of the day, if you're happy, you know, you, you don't have to tell it to anybody.

Erin 18:36

I think that's what most people don't realize and understand about this role is there are days, there are days, and those days they look different. But they're, those days can get you for sure. So at the intersection of, clinical care and operations, can you tell me, you told me a little bit about it and let me see if I can, you know, summarize what you said and maybe let you go a little bit deeper, but operationally. You can really look at like clinics. To me, clinical and operations really run hand in hand. You yes. You don't, you don't, you're not doing really well in clinical and then, you know, doing really poor in operations like operations and clinical, just like operations and sales. Like it really is a triangle.

Shubam 19:30

Yeah.

Erin 19:30

That, that they are interconnected. it, and so if we don't, like you said, if we don't understand our customers mm-hmm. And, and meet them at their level and help them feel seen important, a part of the process, it, it's just not gonna work. But you have the unique perspective of, of those sides. So, tell me a little bit about what you see from your perspective, how you've used it to your advantage.

Shubam 20:00

So one thing that I have really applied in my daily schedule, I should say, is that I make it a habit of walking the floor at least two to three times a day starting when I come in, when it's, I come in early so that it's, everything is slow and I'm not bombarded with things. So when I walk the floors, I specifically take time to look at my residence, and I look at many things, just how are they dressed? How are, how is their mood? I say, hello. I just like these small things that I do, and those are not just for the purpose of saying hello. I'm kind of subconsciously analyzing, looking at them, talking to them, how is their mood and all those things. That gives me the data for. Then I compare it with the previous day or the previous week, a month. That shows me that some person is starting to decline or this person is starting to improve. That is, that's the data I enter with when I go into my morning clinical meeting. I know most of the stuff that's happening in the community that my director of nursing knows. Mm-hmm. So it's not like my director of nursing is telling me what is going on, which is, which, some situations might be a limited information, but I use this medical knowledge to my advantage of knowing the resident myself and then discussing it with my director of nursing, my director of care, wellness director. And then the conversation becomes more of a, like a. A teamwork conversation like this is what we can do. And it's not like one person making a decision, and that's everybody's following with no idea what's going on. So I, I have an advantage of stopping, my care team to, we are not gonna do this. This is not gonna result in a good way. If there is a, for example, if there's a fall, what are we gonna do about it? What is the intervention? You reported me a fall. But that's not a, that's not the solution. So knowing that clinical piece, it also helps me to, to manage my clinical team. In a better way because

Erin 22:16

mm-hmm.

Shubam 22:17

They do have a mutual respect for somebody who understands their world. Now I have a huge respect for them because I exactly know what they're going through when they're dealing with families and residents who have bad days, good days. So it's such a good, it's like everything fits into place. The respect is there. I have my pulse on the building. Knowing the residents, residents know me by face and name. They don't feel scared coming to my office, that it sees an office in the end of the hallway. Some that situation, nurses know that he will find out if something is fishy, so that, and that's not like I'm not scaring them, it's just that confidence that nurses have so much belief in me that if something goes wrong, they just knock on my door and say. Bam, this has just happened. I just want to let you know, and that is what I want from them. So it, the combination of all these things could not happen if I don't get involved in my care. So that's when I, we discuss and we know the plan for the day for the nursing and care team to follow. So an administrator or an ed. Only focus on an Excel sheet, not on the resident itself is gonna see the difference somewhere in future. Like it's gonna affect badly and and then struggle. Why the numbers are not going up. If a tour is happening or something is happening. I make, I try to meet with every tour and just two minutes. Let them know who is, who is the executive in the community. So family knows who is the person here, and can they trust that? Yes. So it's all about that. Are you willing to go out and present yourself? to, to your families, to your tours, to your residents, to your team, and it becomes a combination of everything. So that's clinical part helps me with, with that huge component.

Erin 24:17

Yeah. Now I am not a trained physician and I'm not a trained nurse, but every morning I walked my community. Every morning I would go in and, and know what incident reports happened overnight, and as I'm rounding and, and saying hello to every resident in my viewpoint and every associate I am looking to see if I see any changes. Yes, because just because I'm not trained doesn't mean that I can't see. You know,

Shubam 24:46

and you don't have to be a clinician to do that.

Erin 24:48

Yeah.

Shubam 24:49

I don't, a lot of things, you can literally walk the floor and learn all these things because a resident holding your hand can just tell you a lot of things about that resident and no med school will tell you that. So the things like you just mentioned, you walk your floor, that is the key. Once you start doing it, you exactly know what, what's happening on the care level. Then you can see the reports and all those things. But at walking the floor is the key piece.

Erin 25:19

Yeah. The other piece that I'm sure you do that I wanna add, because it will help segue into the next kind of conversation, is walking the floor and saying hello. And offering words of encouragement to the resident, getting a hug because we all know hugs help both people giving and receiving me hugs. Yeah. If they're huggers. Right? But also talking to the associates and not coming from a leadership like monitoring standpoint. It literally is just I'm offering good vibes and good energy and support as I am also looking to see what my day is going to be filled with because I'm rounding, and so I'm just planting seeds of encouragement and positivity. While I'm actually being very intentional with understanding what's going on in my community, and like you said, it's knowing the pulse of your community. And I don't wanna use this time if I see something that's wrong. I don't wanna ruin the mojo by correcting it unless it's an emergency. You know, unless it's like, you shouldn't be doing this. Sometimes I'll just give you the look and say, ah, you know, look. But you have to, you have to choose. Like in the mornings, I just wanna build momentum. I just wanna set positive vibes, tell it, let them see me, let them hear my heels coming down the hall. You know, like all those things to where I am, my presence, my voice, my values, you know, all of that is being shown in that moment. That's to your point, how you add, keep the pulse on the community.

Shubam 27:04

So if I can give you a little secret that I do before going into the community is we, like residents, have good days, bad days. We have good days, bad days too, right? So before going in, I do sit in my car outside for at least 10 minutes and I'm, that is, I'm not doing anything. I'm just focusing on my breathing. And mostly I've seen that if I'm angry, my breathing is fast. If I am very sad, my breathing is slow. So I try to focus on that to see when my breathing is becoming normal. That means I'm in a good frame of mind, not the, that's the energy I am carrying with me when I'm entering.

Erin 27:45

Yes.

Shubam 27:45

So to coming to the point of going to the floors one floor round. Can solve so many things. You get a chance to see your residents. you talk to them, you see their vibe, they catch your vibrations. You see a a, a new staff member, you say, how are you doing today? It's, it's almost 30 days you are here. Do you like it here? You are doing it at the same time you are seeing what they're struggling with and what is not working on the floor, the dishwasher is down and then if unless there is extremely something important that needs to be addressed, you are just spreading a good vibe and. It shouldn't be that, oh, he's on the floor. It should be like, oh, he's on the floor. It's a normal day. And that if you leave with that vibe on the floor that they feel like Bam just came to the floor, he was here and everything looks fine. That's where. People trust you. And if they feel, oh, let's tell everybody through a text that he's walking the floor, that's not the community we want to build up. So that, and that starts with me when I'm walking in. I should ha, I have to keep my emotions on the side. It's my residents who are my focus at that time.

Erin 29:01

Yeah.

Shubam 29:01

So if we spread that it affects each and every part of community.

Erin 29:05

Yeah. Don't miss the point that we're trying to drive home. If you're listening to this. Don't miss it. You are important. Your mindset when you walk in the door, the energy that you bring in, the root cause of any anxiety, trying to control what you can't control, it's actually your influence that is truly the most important. So we think, it's, it's other people, but really it's other people because it's you first. And that is the point that I feel like we're, we're making here and what most leaders don't understand inside of the community.

Shubam 29:42

Yeah. And I can ask this question to you like And you will probably agree with me, is that we do have a finite amount of energy in the day.

Erin 29:50

Yes. Yes.

Shubam 29:51

And we, we can, we need to be very mindful about how we are spending it. So we have this operations component, we have this human component that we are juggling and we need to prioritize. How we are gonna spend that energy during the day to uplift the community and uplift even by 0.1% is still an uplift. So controlling your energy, controlling your emotions. It's extremely important because you have a finite amount, and I don't want to go above that amount because that's where the stress kicks in, and now we are going the other route. Mm-hmm. So being mindful of how you are managing your emotions and energy and everything. Even if I have to take a walk around the building just to calm myself, I do that. It's not a problem. But then when I come back, I'm still in a good mood. So it's that thing I always keep in mind, and I think everybody should.

Erin 30:49

Yeah. The mindset is the perspective, which you were. You were the one that's responsible for your own mindset, and then your boundaries protect it. But then your energy is how you sustain it, and it truly is. I look at everything through those lenses now, because before it was a people problem. And I see that a lot in the people that I coach and the leaders that I develop. And I'm able to reframe that with them and I'm like, Nope, this is a mindset. Boundaries or energy problem. It's not a people problem. It's not

Shubam 31:21

exactly to your, see, I, I have, I coach a lot of new leaders. And and I will be very honest, I come across so many people, and I've been in that phase too. So I realize it very quickly is that it's like everybody's out there to. To change things in other people and find problems that my team is wrong. Or for just a simple example, I entered a community and it was struggling with sensors. Everybody sell says, change the sales team, increase the marketing budget. No, that's not the way it's gonna be done. But the thing is, the more we focus on that, how am I going to adapt to this situation? With comfort so that other people see that if I am comfortable, who is the captain of the ship, people who are really have good intentions, they will fall in that vibrational phase. And of course, we have people who really are not in that phase, they will fall off the ship automatically. So it's, it's, that's what has to happen. But most of the time. I have seen students who want to achieve something very fast. Yes. And be the uni unicorn person, but then they fail and then they come back to me and I'm like, you should not have gone this route. I told you, and I'm not, I'm not best in any way, but my experience is I share with them and then they try it and it's like, okay. And then they make a version of themselves and then they're successful. So I've seen this happening. To your point, you must have seen that too.

Erin 32:57

Yeah. You know, when you and I were talking previously, you brought up a story about, and I, and I don't remember the specifics, but there was someone in your office and there was a lot of negative energy and a lot of worry, and I think they were gonna go have surgery or something and you were able to meet them where they were. And to help them become aware of what they were carrying. And when that conversation was over, all that stress and anxiety was, was gone.

Shubam 33:32

It was so briefly I can touch on that. So a very good man of my employees was going into a surgery. I won't named the surgery, and she, she was so worried about what the future looks like. If something goes wrong. Mm-hmm. And she thinks more negative than positive most of the time. So I knew her, her thought process, and she came to me because she knows my background, she trusts me and everything. So initially when she came in, I was sitting across the table from her and it was looking like I'm doing an interview while she's telling me about this big problem that she's gonna go through big situation. And I realized that this is not the good way of doing it. So I got up, so my table is a little bit like longer, like 12 feet. So I sat next to her. Now she's, and she's sitting like on my right left side, and I'm talking to her with like eye to eye contact, tell me your plan for this whole thing. And it's confidential. I would like to, I would like to know what's going on, who is gonna take care of your family, and all those things. I, I took her mind away from surgery. I started asking about positive things. So what your children are gonna be taken care of. Okay, what do you need from me? How can I be your assistance? And then once everything is done, what is your plan? Where are you going on a vacation? So the, I changed her mindset about, oh, let me look at once I'm treated, where I'm gonna be, what all good things I'm gonna do. And we, she came in with. Tears in her eyes, but she left that I'm in a good place. I think I should be fine. I I should be fine. I said, yes, you are going to be. So that mind shift was just because she wanted to vent it out. But if I had like sat next, opposite her, that was more like an interrogation. Rather than, so that change, like she's back and she's doing wonderful and I knew it, but it at that moment, she needed that five minutes of conversation of supporting and I guess everything went fine. And that's something that goes a long way. So the person is connected to me for life.

Erin 35:49

Mm-hmm.

Shubam 35:50

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I build relationships so I don't build like a community changes people. No. we connect to people. So that was an example I shared and it went well.

Erin 36:01

Yes. This is what leadership is inside senior living. This is what nobody tells you. People wanna talk to you about the spreadsheets. That's part of it too. They wanna talk to you about the regulatory, that's part of it too. They wanna talk to you about occupancy growth. That's part of it too. But what he just described is how all of that other stuff works. Sitting, and this is from a sales standpoint too. I mean, don't sit across from a table, sit beside them at the table. Instantaneously, energy goes down.

Shubam 36:33

she welcomed me into her energy zone and she felt comfortable. That's when I knew, because her body language relaxed and I offered her water and she, she was happy. She went. Out with a happy mind frame. She texted me right away after the surgery. I'm fine. And, the thing that made me so happy was she came in and she felt confident that she can share something personal about her and trust me that I will talk to her. And she could have just applied for a sick leave and I would've never known. But it's like that trust factor. It takes time to build. But I guess, that was there so. I feel very proud of those situations that I was able to do, and it feels good when you come home that you're able to do something good deed of the day.

Erin 37:21

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like you're giving permission for people to lead differently.

Shubam 37:28

Yeah. Who am I to control what needs to be done? I need to be the gatekeeper. I'm not gonna be the person who is involved in each and every little thing. Yeah, they should. It's like you, it's like every parent, they're the guard guardian of the house. But children can play in-house unless they're doing something that gonna create a mess. But they should have the freedom. And that's when they explore and that's when they come with ideas. And it eventually helps the leader because then he doesn't have to make all the decisions because the team feel confident making the decisions. Mm-hmm. Which most of the time when done in a right way or right decisions, and I'm in no way best in every decision. I, this is the, this is how I look at it. Like I have this. All these people who are actually my right and left hands, so I have 12 people just like me. Mm-hmm. Imagine one doing it and then 12 doing it. It's gonna be better when 12 are doing it.

Erin 38:23

Yeah. To the leaders who are listening that do wanna lead differently, like the way that we're describing Right. Relationship first, we do have to understand that it is to some people, a real estate first. Right metric, heavy number, heavy, industry for them. Based on all of your experience and everything that we have said, how do you teach someone? What do you say to that leader who's coming in? Who is that head and heart leader, a relationship first? How do you teach them how to balance it or communicate up appropriately?

Shubam 39:05

That's a great question because I have came across that before multiple times. Mm-hmm. So most of the times, we enter the building, we could enter a building which is stable, and we enter that building. That's where you can, you have full luxury of working with your heart and building the teams and up. But if you're entering a struggling building, then. Of course the ownership group needs to know about the progress, the numbers and everything. Now, in that case, what I have done is that. Let's say if I have identified three main problems, census is low, we have staff turnover, and then we have so many IDPH or state complaints. If, let's say, if we take three, I would rather focus on the on one of them, which is my biggest metric, and focus on just that one. For the first two to three months, if I take all three together, all three are gonna fall, which I have done in the past and I have failed. But if I. If I start working and start showing some improvement in one area, every owner understands that movement is happening. There is potential. The building took time to get to this place, but it's gonna take time to get to where they wanted to be. All they want to see is that, are you gonna, are you able to. prioritize that, okay, I'm gonna focus on one thing, move the needle on that, stabilize it, move to the next thing, and then move to the third thing. Mm-hmm. Don't make a mistake of choosing five things at the same time. It's never gonna work. And then that's when the revolving door happens, that you are frustrated. You want to leave as if the next building is gonna be better, which is not. so it's, that's where the patience comes in, that you have patient and you are strong enough to deal with everything, the emails, the staff. But if you're focused on one thing and you have a full plan for that 99.9%, that is gonna work.

Erin 41:08

Yeah. I feel like we have really done an amazing job at really describing, defining what leadership is inside of senior living, which is not just a management role, it's not just a senior living, you know, leadership role. It's leading a business that is inside someone's life story. That's what senior living is, and you are able. To really articulate what it's like to balance clinical realities, operational demands, and the human experience.

Shubam 41:49

So let me say this thing. I came from a medical world. I went into hospitals. I went into, uh, skilled nursing homes. Eventually, I'm at this point where I've seen everything, senior livings. I decided to stay in senior living for just one reason, which you just mentioned that in hospitals and skilled nursing homes, most of the time people come in and then they leave you. you develop a bond just for 10 days and then it, there's a rotation. When you are in a senior living, people are there for a longer period of time, and

Erin 42:21

yes.

Shubam 42:22

The thing is somebody's at at home, they move into a senior living. They still have those good years of their life where they can live with a little bit of assistance, but with full independence. Where they can enjoy their life. I hate it when it happens that people take too time, too much time, and then they end up in a skilled nursing home or hospital. 'cause now you have lost that 10 wonderful years, or 12, 15 years. Where you could have still enjoyed your life to the fullest. And that can only happen when in a senior living where like in my role, I have connections where I'm seeing people progressing day by day, year by year. And that's the long-term connection. And sometimes we become their biggest, we spent the most time with them, more than their families. Doing that is the biggest kick I get out of it. That I know this person for past 10 months and my job is to make sure that he lives a good quality of life till the next stage of the life, which we cannot prevent. But what can I do right now to make it better? Yeah. So that it would not have happened because. If I would've just stayed in one healthcare section, I would have a limited tunnel vision. But seeing everything happening, everybody's a necessary thing to have. Hospitals, nursing homes, but senior living, independent livings, assisted livings. There is where you actually see the life unfolding during the later stages, like after 60 or 65. That's the most vulnerable population who, who you can actually make a difference in their life. That's the satisfying factor that, that got me hooked into the senior living, and I'm, I'm so happy what I'm doing.

Erin 44:17

Yeah. Yeah. It really is. we are serving people. And in the in while we're serving people, we have to look at numbers and spreadsheets, and we have to make it worth for both parties, For the investors who make the business possible and for the people who make the business possible. Yeah. And our job as leaders is to make it a win-win for both because you couldn't make the investors happy if the customers are happy.

Shubam 44:48

Yes. they are the two sides of the same coin. Yeah. Like both goes hand in hand and we are the glue who makes sure that we are making it happen. Yeah. So once that understanding comes in. The results automatically come in. If it's a good building with good customer service, the customer, the residents will, or new move-ins will keep on coming. The revenue is still gonna be generated. So all that is interconnected. It, you cannot separate operations from the human side. There is always that combination of both that, we have to, I was. I'm just taking a small detour. I was watching series, the Man on the Inside.

Erin 45:29

Yeah.

Shubam 45:30

And I was watching that executive director who had closed your door and she was sitting under her desk with the ear earplugs. And that happens more than we think of. And I'm like, this is so true.

Erin 45:42

Yes.

Shubam 45:42

It's not, they're not exaggerating. But then she came out and then she's, she's fine because the, we go, we are the glue, we are the people who are keeping it all together. So it's a big job and, but it's, it's a very respectful and rewarding job. Yeah. We don't, I don't even have to go outside to do a good deed of the day. I can do enough inside, so

Erin 46:05

yes,

Shubam 46:06

I feel so happy.

Erin 46:07

Yes, it's true. I was just speaking to somebody that I just met and we were talking about how we miss that connection inside of the community. And I told her, I'm like, now, like literally sometimes I'm in the grocery store or I'm at a restaurant and I'm like, oh, please let me help you. Do you need help? And they like, look at me. And I'm like, I. This is more for me than it is for you because I don't get to uhhuh help people like this anymore. Please let me help you put groceries in the car, will you help me put your sweater on? It's

Shubam 46:34

the mindset. It just feels good. I mean, and when you feel good, you are more prone to do more good. And then it, it's, uh, people see it and it's, you cannot. It goes viral around you, everybody. Yeah. You cannot be living in an island of happiness. When you're surrounded by misery. You have to spread it. Yes. You have to create your world for your own self, which is happy to give happiness to everybody.

Erin 47:01

Yeah. Yeah. I really feel like the two main takeaways, well, A, at the beginning when you said treat the root cause, not the fever. Right.

Shubam 47:11

treat. Treat the infection,

Erin 47:13

not the fever. Infection, not the symptoms. Treat the infection, not the fever, which is the symptoms, right? Yep. That's the number one takeaway. That's that root cause analysis type thinking. But it's also, I think every new leader needs to know this, that it's more about you because you cannot give what you do not have. Than it is about anybody else. And when it's about you first, then it becomes about everybody else because you can serve them the way that they, that they want you to.

Shubam 47:47

Y yes. And if you want me to just add one quick line to that is, yeah. Yeah. Work on yourself first. Mm-hmm. Fix your yourself first. If I am, if I have one leg, I cannot support a person who has one leg. I need to be internally satisfied, and if I do some inner work, it can make wonders on the outer world. So that's how I mostly approach and I just didn't mean to cut you off, I just wanted to add that. No,

Erin 48:18

that's great. Because how you lead becomes the part of someone's story, right? And Yep. And that's what we're, we're working in and someone's life, the end of chapter of their life story, and you really want to be a character that is offering good. Inside that last chapter, yes. Thank you for this very, extremely insightful conversation and, and hopefully a take on leadership that spreads, that goes viral because I believe that this is the new way. It should have been the only way, but it is a new focus inside the industry. And if we can start, like you said, working from the inside first, it will spread to the outside.

Shubam 49:15

Yes. Uh, I, I can totally vouch for that.

Erin 49:19

I can too. But it came from the man who went into the monastery to be a monk and studied with the monks for years, and that is something.

49:29

Thank

Shubam 49:29

you so much. It it, it was such a pleasure to talk to you and you are such, you asked such great questions, which nobody asks and so I was just trying to. Match your energy and everything. So thank you so much for asking those questions.

Erin 49:44

You're welcome. Well, I, um, I, if you don't follow him, follow him on LinkedIn because he has some great content and it's his content that caught my eye because when you see your people, you need to go out and meet your people and you're not gonna see those people unless you know who you are. And when you know who you are, you will attract that energy. And that's, that's why energy is so, so, so important. I appreciate you sharing on, uh, LinkedIn so I can get to know you and follow you. So I appreciate that. Thank you. So follow him on LinkedIn, shabam Gotham, S-H-U-B-A-M, and then spell your last name for him.

Shubam 50:30

GAUT as in Thomas, A as in apple, M as in Mary, Gotham.

Erin 50:36

Gotham.

Shubam 50:36

yes.

Erin 50:37

And always for my listeners, thank you for, uh, your time and attention today and aspire for more for you knowing you are already enough.

Shubam 50:48

Thank you. Thank you, Erin.