Episode 162. Shock and Awe (2017)

On this episode of B&R at the Movies Podcast Berry and Robin dive into the 2017 film Shock and Awe. This political, military, docudrama is the story of the build up and eventual invasion of Iraq in 2003. This high octane dram is written by Joey Hartstone and is directed by Rob Reiner. The film stars Woody Harrelson, James Marsden, Rob Reiner, Tommy Lee Jones, Jessica Biel, Milla Jovovich, Richard Schiff, and Luke Tennie. This film is the story of the intrepid group of journalists at Knight-Ridder and their relentless pursuit of the truth.   

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:16

All right, everybody, welcome back for another episode of BR at the Movies Podcast. I'm Barry. And I'm Robin. Alright, so this week was my choice of film. Yes. And since we had talked about it, I decided that we are going with the 2017 film Shock and Awe. Shock and awe.

SPEAKER_03 0:33

I just like saying it like that. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'll I'll probably do it a million more times. Sorry. Irritating.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

It's all right.

SPEAKER_03 0:40

All right. So this movie.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Directed by Rob Reiner.

SPEAKER_03 0:44

I did not remember that. That's why we talked about it. We did, but I forgot. It's been a couple weeks. It's been a bit. Okay. It's been a minute. Come on.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Starring Rob Reiner. Nice. So there you go. Also starring Woody Harrelson, James Martson, and Tommy Lee Jones, uh, Jessica Beale, Mila Jovik, uh Richard Schreife, who you will recognize, uh West Wing.

SPEAKER_03 1:11

Ah. So yes, yes, yes. Okay. Already pictured the face. Yep, got you.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Um, so this is the true story of Night Ranger Night Raider News Service. Um, they were covering the 2003 uh invasion invasion of Iraq.

SPEAKER_03 1:31

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

So shock and the shock and awe is actually what the invasion of Iraq was actually called. That's why it's the title of the film, the shock.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

Um, so this um this film uh directed by Rob Reiner, not written by, okay, but directed by um is a really direct uh representation of what these journalists actually went through when they're trying to uncover um what is going what is actually going on.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Um so this was uh in um in 2002, 2003, um leading up through the through the invasion of everything and everything. Um and just how uh Milip did uh can't even say words today. Um just how uh controlling the media can be and not only the media but then the government's entities of like what they're putting out to the media and then how messages can just get totally screwed up and then nothing is nothing's real anymore. Okay. Um so this um the two main guys um um that are in this um Woody Harrelson and James Martin. Okay, um, they portray that well, I mean everybody everybody in this film is portraying real people. Right. Okay. Um, but the Woody and James are portraying uh Jonathan Landy and Warren Strobel. Okay. Um these guys are in the special features of this actually talk about what they were going through in this. So this is actually like they they were directly involved with the making of this film. So it's they it is definitely true.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Um but it's um it's a pretty intense film. Um, so there's a there's a lot there um there's a lot going on. Um when we do the recap, there's a certain speech that happens that we'll talk about when it's all when it's done.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Um, but yeah, it's um it's it's really intense. Like it's there's a lot going on. Um, and it's one where it's a war film, but it's not on the front lines of the war kind of kind of situations. So it's it's a little it's a little different where it's it's a little bit more of what goes on behind the scenes a little bit and what goes on back in the States. So it's um it's an interesting look because it's also a um snapshot of time 23 years ago.

unknown 4:16

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

Okay, when that happened, and it's kind of interesting because it's like you kind of see, you know, you're used to, you know, you get used to certain technologies and certain things and certain and stuff, and it's just like, oh yeah, that's right. That's kind of how we had to do things back then, right? Kind of thing. Right. Uh so it's so it's kind of interesting where it's one of those like it kind of becomes nostalgic without trying to be. And so it's uh which is always kind of fun.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

Um okay. But yeah, um, so yeah, this was one of uh Rob Reiner's one of his last. I don't remember if it's his last one, last film he directed.

SPEAKER_03 4:54

Well, no, it'd be uh Spinal Tap 2.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

Oh, yeah, that's true. Yeah, he did Spinal Tap 2 afterwards. That's very true. I believe that's probably his last. Yeah, that's probably gonna be his last. Um, but yeah, um, so we were talking about uh Rob Reiner's passing, and you know, we were talking about different films and stuff, and then this one came up, and then I was like, Well, I actually own it.

SPEAKER_03 5:16

So we and I hadn't seen it. So I kind of remember that, vaguely remember that conversation. Yeah, because yeah, we of course once he passed away, I was like, Yeah, I think I've seen all his films. It's like, no, I have not.

SPEAKER_00 5:29

Yeah, and it's kind of he's one of those guys where he doesn't you don't see a film instantly and know it's a Rob Reiner film. Yeah, because he has such a a variety of films that he would do and the files.

SPEAKER_03 5:42

Yeah, he can do Princess Bride, and then he does Misery, excuse me.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 5:46

So yeah, and then Spinal Taps is fantastic but crazy, you know. So it's comedy, it's like a so but yeah, so yeah, it's not a particular genre or anything like that. That he he just kind of I don't know, looked like he was having fun.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

And uh and that's what it always seems to be that he kind of picks either stuff that he's passionate about or it's a project that he's he thinks is kind of fun and he can do it. And so I mean that's what made him uh a great guy and a great director, and so yeah, yeah. But all right, well, we will go ahead and dive in and watch Shock and Awe, and then we will come back a little bit to talk about it. Okay, and right, we will be back in a little while. All right, everybody, welcome back. We just got done watching Shock and Awe. Uh, since this was your first time seeing it, I'll let you go and take us away on this one.

SPEAKER_03 6:44

It it was really good. Um lots of information coming at you.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

Yeah, that's fun.

SPEAKER_03 6:50

You know, and I was I I didn't want to feel stupid, but I I learned a lot, really. Um, you know, and I was around, I was paying attention at that time.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

But um But at the time there was so much information coming that it's it's it's hard to decipher the noise from the truth.

SPEAKER_03 7:08

And and just the idea that they lied.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:13

And I think I knew when it came down that they lied, and then nobody cared.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Yep, and then it was Yep, and then just right right back. Yeah. Yep, there we go.

SPEAKER_03 7:26

And we're in this long war and people are dying. Yeah. And now, I mean, even now too, because you know, when we got out of Afghanistan and brought people over that helped us in Afghanistan here, and now they're being told they have to go back. They're they're it's it's such a mess. It's such a mess. And it's like, and it I mean, I don't know how it would have shook out otherwise, but right it could have been avoided.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

And that's and that's the whole thing.

SPEAKER_03 8:05

It's just it's it just hurts your heart. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:09

Well, and I was in a unique position at this time, um, because I was actually in the army at the time. Um, so it was I mean, it it was all confusing for us too. And then we're just like, you know, we're just told, like, okay, this is what's going down and this is what we're doing. And then, you know, you you take everything as, you know, once it's presented to you and say, This is what this is what we're doing. You know, and it's like we don't question anything, we just go.

SPEAKER_01 8:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

So then it's it's interesting to be able to take a look back and then with a kind of a questionable eye and just be like, well, you know, what was what were we really doing?

SPEAKER_03 8:48

Right. Yeah, yeah. And it's you know, the commander in chief. I mean, you know, following orders when you're in the military.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

That's I mean, you gotta you gotta trust, but well, and and because he kept always saying that, you know, he's getting himself his information from intelligence, you know, the intelligence.

SPEAKER_03 9:10

I mean, it sounded legit.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

So it always sounds good, and you're just like, okay, well, you know, you know, that makes sense, okay.

SPEAKER_03 9:16

They seem to be going through the right channels. Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 9:19

Yeah. But then yeah, it's and they found it's all smoke and mirrors.

SPEAKER_03 9:25

And then the idea that people that had uh other ideas or knew other information were like looked down upon.

SPEAKER_00 9:33

Right.

SPEAKER_03 9:34

And you know, and then afterwards I'm sure didn't get any of the recognition because yeah, it was just so ugly. So yeah, exactly. Yeah. But as far as a well-made movie, yeah, I think it's really good. Um I like I love watching Rob Reiner. Um, I I love his directing style, it's really good. Um, he does smart choices.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

Um I love that he he seems to let the actors go and let them and let their the characters drive the story. And you know, it's not just the words on the page, but it's the whole performance and everything that's coming out.

SPEAKER_03 10:14

Yeah, yeah. Again, it's it's you know, when a director has been an actor or is an actor, right? You know, it makes a big difference. It really does. And and that really I I think he does have the that knack of of bringing out um good performances. However, he does it. I don't know how he does it. What he says, what he doesn't say, what he lets you know, what he you know pushes on, whatever. But um, yeah, he really had a a very good talent for that. And um it I think it shows in in all his different all of his films because and they're also different, but you know, you think about it, the performances of these people in these films uh is like phenomenal.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

No, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 11:01

And you know, and uh it's so many of our quotes that we use come from his films because these characters were just so good and the and the acting was so good in them, and that's what he drew out. And so it's just it it you know, it's just it was just kind of amazing of of of how what he did with his career.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

He was uh it always seemed like he he seemed to bring out the best of people.

SPEAKER_03 11:29

Yeah, and you know, you kind of wonder how. Yeah, I mean you know, um because I think of him as being a pretty nice guy.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:38

Um, I know I've heard other actors talk about good directors that you know they they know what they're doing, you have confidence in them, you don't you you know they're not gonna make you look stupid.

SPEAKER_02 11:49

Right.

SPEAKER_03 11:50

And that you know, you know, the they just they really trust the directors. So I have to believe that I think anyone who'd probably worked with him really did trust his his uh judgment and that he was gonna do a good job.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 12:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

So uh the one thing I need to tell you about. So there's the speech.

SPEAKER_03 12:14

What speech?

SPEAKER_00 12:15

It's the one uh the one that Rob Reiner delivers. Oh and it's so um John the the guy who he's portraying, John, said that exact speech word for word, exactly the way that it was.

SPEAKER_03 12:31

Oh, it was good.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

So when so for that, they made he made sure that he left that in there exactly the way that he delivered it, because he wanted to make sure that he had the right, the right words, the right emphasis on what he was trying to what he was trying to get across, that he said that I don't care what these other news agencies want to put out. We're not them.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

We're after the truth, and that's what we're going after. And I I really love that speech. I think that's a I think that was a great moment in the film.

SPEAKER_03 13:04

And yeah, well, and I I this is really an important movie for people to watch.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:11

To really know what happened, to really know that yeah, people lied, and we went and went to war and there were no mass weapons of destruction. No, nope, definitely not you know, and that is what was pounded uh uh over and over and over again that there were. Yep. That's why we were there.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

That's why we were there, yep.

SPEAKER_03 13:36

And that was not true, and that was that was a lie.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

Total fabrication, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:40

And to watch this and to understand the people that were really trying to, you know, push against the wind, push against you know the wave of everything else, to try to say the truth. And and we're saying the truth, whether people heard it or not.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

Right.

SPEAKER_03 13:57

But I think it's really important for people that if they really care of what happened when we went to war to watch this movie and to really understand.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

Well, and it and unfortunately it always seems like history tends to repeat itself.

SPEAKER_03 14:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

And yeah, now it's you know, 23 years later and we're kind of pretty much right back in the same spot again.

SPEAKER_03 14:22

We've got a president that just wants to go to war.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Yeah. And you know, it's it's always it's always been weird, it's always been been rough where we're, you know, we want to do the right thing. And when, you know, you've got, you know, your commander-in-chief is pushing their agenda.

SPEAKER_03 14:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

And then it's telling you this is what we're doing, and it's like you can't it's hard to push back against that.

SPEAKER_03 14:49

Yeah. Well, and I think with Bush to lie to the American people during that time, when it was such a delicate time.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

Right.

SPEAKER_03 15:00

We had been attacked.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

Yeah, and playing and and using that and playing that on the I mean that's just that's just dirty.

SPEAKER_03 15:10

That is just dirty. I mean, right now, you know, what Trump is doing is you know, everybody knows it's not the right thing to do. And still he's like he's still gonna do it.

SPEAKER_02 15:27

Right.

SPEAKER_03 15:27

You know? He's commander-in-chief, he's still gonna do it. He's got a he's got a different attitude than Bush, but it's still it's like well, I guess the one thing with Trump is that most people know that he he he is a liar. You know, he pretty much doesn't tell the truth. I think with Bush a lot of people thought, especially after 9-11, yeah, that he was really telling the truth.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 15:53

You know, but uh but now it's different, and most people don't think he's telling the truth.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

Right.

SPEAKER_03 15:58

Uh not the whole truth, not and not not everything. And and and there is something about pushing the agenda. And that's what Bush did.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

And that's exactly it. Well, and I and you know, they they described it very good in this film where they talk about where cherry picking through the through the intelligence.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 16:15

And what they're doing is that they already had their their objective of what they were going for, and they cherry-picked through the intelligence to be able to find something to meet rather than the other way around. Instead of the other way around.

SPEAKER_03 16:28

Right. The way it should be.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

Right, instead of gathering the intelligence and then creating what you're doing.

SPEAKER_03 16:33

And it was so sad because people were real really hurting from 9-11.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:37

Still hurting from it. You know, I mean, even though it'd been, you know, I don't care if it's been a year or two, but whatever.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

Yeah, but still, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:45

You know, and and it's very fresh, and that I then is just cruel.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:49

Because people at that time it was like, yeah, it it it was just cruel. It really was.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Well, it and like we were saying, like, you know, people you were just listening to what they were saying, and it was like, oh, this is this is the you know, they're saying this is what it is. And it's like, okay, well, they're not, they're not. That's what it is.

SPEAKER_03 17:08

Yeah, you know, and that's the whole thing now with Trump and back then too. They weren't like maybe it is, maybe it's not, we're looking into it, blah, blah, blah. No, no hesitation. It's like, this is it. This is who these people are, this is why we need to attack them.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 17:26

You know, and then you know, and it's just like, oh my God. It doesn't, it doesn't end. It really doesn't end.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

Yeah, and it just it it just tears you up. And then and it's and like we're saying, like, I mean, we we went through this with Vietnam, we went through this with, you know, and it's we, you know, it hasn't, it hasn't changed. It has still it's still the same story, and it just every couple decades, it just pops back up and it repeats itself.

SPEAKER_03 17:56

You know, and what is happening right now with Trump could very well be like a really long war.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Absolutely. Like Afghanistan.

SPEAKER_03 18:04

Yeah, I mean like that long.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

Right. I mean, we were we were in act in occupying Afghanistan for 20 years. Yeah. And it's like that's insane.

SPEAKER_03 18:15

At the most six months. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, you almost laugh about that now. Well, they they had the gall to say that.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

Exactly. Yeah, they they were like, oh yeah, there were pe they kept they were saying that people were joining at that time that probably wouldn't even go there because uh it was already gonna be done.

SPEAKER_03 18:33

It was gonna be done.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

And it's like, no, there were people that were born during that time that were still that still ended up going. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 18:40

And it's like exactly. That's just crazy.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

It's wild.

SPEAKER_03 18:44

Yeah, and then it was a a war we didn't need to be in.

SPEAKER_00 18:48

Well, and that's and that was the problem was that they were when you're you're pushing an agenda like that, there is no, there was no out. There was no end. Yeah. There was no end in sight.

SPEAKER_02 18:59

No.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

And that's exactly what it that's exactly what it was. And that's exactly what happened in Vietnam, too. Yeah. And it was exactly what we're saying. We just had to leave. And then and you know, they kept saying, like, oh, you know, that was a you know, that was a conflict of a war that that we lost. And it's like, yeah, we haven't, we don't we don't because you don't win wars like in World War II, in World War I. You don't win wars like that. Yeah, that's like that's not that's not what it is.

SPEAKER_03 19:26

Yeah, it's it's so different. Yeah. Yeah. And it is it is just really hard because again, you have the military that are involved with what's going on right now. And they're probably saying the same things like, what the heck are we doing there? Why, why, why are we doing this? This doesn't make any sense.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

Right.

SPEAKER_03 19:46

And yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

And that and that's the problem, is that we can we can say we we you know if you're there and you can say the why, and you can say like, why am I here? But in the end, you still are ordered to be there, and you still have to follow the orders that you're given to be there. Yeah, you know, and it that's yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:04

It's just like, yeah, let's go into another country and just mess it up. Let's do that. That sounds really good. Because it turned out really good for Afghanistan. Sure did, sure did.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

Yeah, it's it's I mean, it breaks your heart. It absolutely breaks your heart.

SPEAKER_03 20:19

It really does. And and you know, you just shake your head and you have no power.

unknown 20:24

No.

SPEAKER_03 20:24

But the people with power, you have I mean, you're supposed to be trusting these people, and it's like the more that happens, the less you trust.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 20:32

But the l but it doesn't feel like there's anything you can do except make sure they're not in power anymore, I guess. You know?

SPEAKER_00 20:42

I mean, that's pretty much all that's pretty much what we can do. I mean, we you know, we can we can we can vote. We can vote and we try to put you know people in in the power, you know, that are that you hope have everybody's best interests in in mind and aren't gonna lead us astray, you know, and that's from all levels of government, you know, you know, that you try to we try to make sure we have the the best people for the job that are in there. And you know, and then there's sometimes where some people seem like the best person for the job, and then you come to find out what they're really all about, and sometimes it's not what you thought, and you know, you feel like do all kinds of stuff, right?

SPEAKER_03 21:22

Yeah, and I you know, I kinda kind of feel sorry for a lot of the people that voted for Trump. Because some of them did have an idea and and what he was selling sounded pretty good.

SPEAKER_02 21:37

Right.

SPEAKER_03 21:37

You know, the campaign trail, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

Right.

SPEAKER_03 21:41

And now I have to believe a lot of them are going, What?

SPEAKER_00 21:45

Yeah. Well and I I think that, you know, with with every president where they've they've had their shiny moments and they've had their their really, really bad ones, and you hope that the good outweighs the bad. Right. And then sometimes it doesn't feel that way. And sometimes feel like there's just way more bad. But I don't know. I mean, this film I I like that it it takes that moment of time that it's far enough back where we can definitely objectively look at the situation. Or we can look at it because enough time has passed for us to be able to do that. But it's not so we're not so removed from it that it feels like it's ancient history. Right. This is not applicable anymore. Yeah. It still feels very still feels very relevant.

SPEAKER_03 22:34

Yeah, I mean, and and really, I mean, I mean, all the actors did a wonderful job. I really did. They were just captivating and interesting, and you learn a lot. So this is really a film everyone should see.

SPEAKER_00 22:47

I think it's a very important film.

SPEAKER_03 22:49

It really is. I mean, for I mean, for so many reasons, but it really is an important film to see and to try to and to really absorb what the truth was then.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Right.

SPEAKER_03 23:00

But then to see a really good film. Gonna give you a lot of information and it's gonna be very entertaining for you too.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

Well, and I I like James Martin and Woody Harrelson playing with each other.

SPEAKER_03 23:11

They're great. Good casting.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

I really like that. I really like those two together like that. Yeah. And then you throw Tommy Lee Jones in the in the mix too.

SPEAKER_03 23:20

And it's like and Rob Reiner.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

Rob was great.

SPEAKER_03 23:27

He had a major part, but he didn't he didn't put the s the spotlight on him, really. But his little parts, I just thought he was really good. It's just so it was so good. It really was.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

Absolutely. And it felt like it was it was such a good job with the casting on it that if Rob didn't direct it, that it would have been and he was cast just casting it. You'd be like, oh that you know, per oh, that was perfect. That was good casting, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:56

I mean, really, because I I do believe that he put himself in that position because he he really felt he could he could handle it, he could do it. And he did. And he did a great job. That was great.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

It did a great job with it.

SPEAKER_03 24:07

So yeah, yeah. So it's yeah, I mean, for a lot of reasons, um everybody should really see this film.

SPEAKER_00 24:14

And you was I pretty accurate when I said that. It's a very intense film with a couple moments of levity.

SPEAKER_03 24:21

Yeah, a little little bit. There wasn't much, but yeah, it was all it was all but it's it's like it's important.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

Right.

SPEAKER_03 24:28

This is like an important topic, and people should really know what happened. Even even like us, we were living at the time, we were there, right? But to really understand um is is very good thing.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

So absolutely, yeah, yeah, definitely. All right, well, should we go and wrap this one up? I guess so. All right, well, thank you everybody for listening. Uh, make sure you guys go check out Shock and Awe.

SPEAKER_03 24:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

Absolutely go watch it, find it. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 25:01

Even just for the sake of Rob Reiner, watch it. That's yes. Okay. Absolutely. That's your mom talking.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

That's right. That's right. All right, until next time, I'm Barry. And I'm Robin. And we will talk to you guys later.