B&R at the Movies
B&R at the Movies
Episode 168. They Shall Not Grow Old (2018)
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On this episode of B&R at the Movies podcast Berry and Robin dive into the 2018 WWI documentary They Shall Not Grow Old. This unique archival look at what the soldiers of WWI went though. The film is written and directed by Peter Jackson. He was able to gather footage, some that has never been seen before and bring it to new life with advanced coloring techniques and added sound. This film will make you feel every battle won and lost.
All right, everybody. Welcome back for another episode of BNR at the movies podcast. I'm Barry. And I'm Robin. All right. So this week was your choice of film. Yes. So I'll let you go and take us away on this one.
SPEAKER_00Okay. So we are going to watch They sh They Shall Not Grow Old.
SPEAKER_02They Shall Not Grow Old.
SPEAKER_00They Shall Not Grow Old.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00Uh, this is a documentary.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00Um, it was made, it came out in 2018, which I kind of did on purpose because it's about World War One, which was Oh, it's a hundred years it would have been a hundred years.
SPEAKER_02Oh, okay. That's smart.
SPEAKER_00Um, and it's sorry. Did I write down his name? Oh, Peter Jackson. Peter Jackson is the director of the Lord of the Rings and all that kind of stuff. But this is a very personal thing for him. Um so I'm gonna tell you a little bit about it so then when you watch it, but then you can decide if you want to. Some people are on one side, some people are on the other side of this one. Okay, so um so Peter Jackson really wanted to do this, and he actually didn't take any money really making this because it was very personal to him. His great grandgrandfather uh died in World War One, so he did not meet him, but he was always interested in it. And so um he really wanted to do a film about World War One. Um, and he decided because it's so big and there's so many countries involved, he's just concentrating on the British soldiers. Okay, which which is a large portion of who was in World War One, and he was allowed to go in and look at all this film footage that they had that was taken of the soldiers. So this isn't really about the war, this is about the soldiers. Okay. That's the focus. Okay. So it's it's not really it does talk about some battles and that sort of thing, but it it's more about the experience of these men in the war. Interesting. Okay. So um he so everything you see is actually film footage of um World War I soldiers.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00Um, and it was done it obviously in black and white, and there's no sound.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00So he did colorize it.
SPEAKER_02Oh, interesting, okay.
SPEAKER_00And then because there's no sound, he got lip readers to find out what they're actually saying, and then actors saying the words.
SPEAKER_02Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_00So a lot of people have problem, you know, like he's manipulating it, blah, blah, blah, whatever, whatever. So some people fall on one side, some people fall on the other side.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I mean, I can I can I understand both both sides of that where you have something archival and you want to preserve it exactly as it is, 100%. Don't mess with it.
SPEAKER_00But he really wanted to bring it to a new generation.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00And and I gotta say, I love I saw this in the theater.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00Just fell in love with it. Oh very moving. I'll be closing my eyes during the rat scenes.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_00That's just like, oh my God. Uh, but um yeah, I and I liked the colorization. I understood it because even when um some of it, I don't know if it actually shows it in this or if it was like extra stuff I saw when they showed it black and white and then they showed it color. It really does kind of bring it in for me. And and he said that he made it colors colorized it because that's what the soldiers saw.
SPEAKER_02Right. Were colors. Yeah, I could see that. Okay.
SPEAKER_00So that that's what he was trying to do. Okay. But yeah, he was um yeah, this was a very personal thing for him. Um, and um and I think it shows. And uh and I I think it's well done, but that's what we're gonna talk about.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_00See what you think, you know, um, you know, his choices of what he what he did and how he wanted to do it and that sort of thing. Right. And the one thing when he got to look at all this footage, and he I guess there were just so many hours of footage was you know, had to pare it down, obviously. Um they they let him have any footage he wanted as long as what he did was respectful. Okay. And the N N piece is saying, Yeah, that's that was his goal, to be very respectful to the soldiers and um and their experience.
SPEAKER_02Interesting.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I so right away without without having seen it. Um I understand colorization, um, where you're you know, you're if you're cleaning it up, you're kind of making it um more where you can actually see it. I'm not hundred percent sold so far on the lip readers and uh yeah, voiceovers yet. I'm just gonna say that yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So we'll see how to do that. So he did take the footage, he did manipulate it, but he did make it in his own way. So yeah, we'll talk a lot about his choices of what he did, how he did it, and how you feel about it.
SPEAKER_02I mean yeah, because I can I definitely can I can definitely see, like I said, I see both sides of it.
SPEAKER_00Some people did have a really hard time with this. So yeah, it's but but most people kind of appreciated it.
SPEAKER_02Right. But well, and and to be perfectly honest, I mean, there's not I feel like there's not a lot of World War One historical stuff.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02That it I mainly see World War II, and then you know, from then on it was uh, you know, films were a lot more accessible and stuff, and so there was a lot more archival stuff. So I've seen a lot more, you know, once you go Vietnam and Korea and everything else. And um, but it's with World War One, I feel like because it w they were limited on what they were uh of getting it, of how they could be able to obtain it, that it that I feel like there's not a ton of doc well full documentaries that would be like this dedicated just to World War One.
SPEAKER_00So um, but I and I learned a lot when I watched it. Yeah, um personally I did. Um but yeah, so yeah, to people well this kind of created a you know a little bit of like a little buzz, you know, it's like what do you think about this? But uh I I when I came right down to it, it was the heart of the the film. And I I like the heart of the film.
SPEAKER_02So right, yeah. That's what I would have to go back to is like what was the intent of like what we were trying to achieve. Right, what was it that you were trying to achieve?
SPEAKER_00Not trying to sensationalize it, but just but when I did hear like he wanted to put the color in because that's what the soldiers saw. And it's like, oh okay, that that kind of made sense to me. Yeah, that's a reason to colorize, you know.
SPEAKER_02Right, yeah, and and I've seen other stuff that has been colorized and stuff, and it's like um I don't and I and it's I don't mind it.
SPEAKER_00I don't mind I don't mind black and white, but I don't mind colorized things either. So I'm just kind of like, I'm okay with that. That's fine. Yeah, because I've and I feel like they did a very good job colorizing. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Um definitely be interesting. It'll it'll definitely be a good debate. And yeah, we'll kind of we'll see where we've been.
SPEAKER_00There'll be a lot to talk about.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, where we'll see where we both kind of land on it.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, because I've seen um, yeah, just like I was saying, I've I've I've seen a lot of other things.
SPEAKER_00And I kind of wanted to mention that ahead of time because I didn't want to spring you on spring it on just to so you kind of know a little bit of the backstory of how this was made and the process of what they were going through. Kind of why.
SPEAKER_02Okay. So there is so I I I that was the other thing I was imagining, like, okay, is it gonna be like, you know, so opening shot is Peter Jackson sitting there or something, like explaining like this is what it is.
SPEAKER_00I don't think so. I don't remember that. I think it's just about the soldiers, and it's just about the experience of the soldiers.
SPEAKER_02See, and that and that's what's interesting about making this type of documentary where it's archival of you're not, you know, it it was a hundred years since the since World War I at that point. Yeah, so you're not doing interviews with soldiers that were there, you know. You could do like family interviews and stuff, but actually like sitting down with the actual people, it's like it'd be you know very, very rare to find anybody that would have been able to do that. Right. So it's it's interesting because you're looking at it from like a historical perspective, but trying to make it on the personal side of the guys.
SPEAKER_00So it's kind of it is I think it is a very personal film.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's gonna be that's gonna be interesting. So so we'll see.
SPEAKER_00All right, yeah. Yeah, there you go. I picked a war movie. Woohoo!
SPEAKER_02War documents, but still, but still I I have uh uh three war documentaries I can think of offhand right now that I own that we could do at some point.
SPEAKER_00Okay, well maybe you should compare them to this, see which one's oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, and I and I've got them from like different eras too. So it's like, oh yeah, yeah, very interesting thing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know me. But when I saw this in the theater, I mean it was it was it was very emotional to for me to watch it.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I remember.
SPEAKER_00But I chose I chose to go. Yeah, obviously.
SPEAKER_02Well, you and you knew what it was when you went into it, so it wasn't like that.
SPEAKER_00I thought it was really, really good.
SPEAKER_02That's just me. Yeah, all right, it'll be a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02All right, you have to remind me of the title again because we've been saying They Shall Not Grow Old.
SPEAKER_00They shall not grow old, which is kind of what happened to most of the people that you see on the in the documentary. They didn't they didn't make it all right.
SPEAKER_02We'll go ahead and dive in and watch this one. Yeah, all right. So we're gonna watch They Shall Not Grow Old, and then we will come back a little bit to talk about it.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02All right, we will be back in a little while. All right, everybody, welcome back. We just got done watching They Shall Not Grow Old. Yep. And since this was my first time watching it, then I'll take us away on this one. Yes, you will. Um, so yeah, I I thought it was an overall documentary. I thought it was really good. Okay. Um, I liked um a lot of it. I like the parallels between um stuff I went through and stuff that was going on there. Um, especially when the the terms and stuff haven't changed. It's still the same week 'cause the US military, we learned our stuff from the British Army of what we were calling stuff and what we were doing, and it hasn't changed in 250 years. And so um, like they were talking about the mad minute um when they were training or shooting. I've literally done the mad minute uh when I was going through training. So it's uh so it's really funny where it's just those parallels of stuff that uh um and uh pretty much l all the training and stuff leading up to them actually going um and being and uh being deployed was a lot, a lot of it was uh very, very uh familiar.
SPEAKER_00Really?
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00Really?
SPEAKER_02Uh yeah, the training stuff and like I mean they had they had them boxing and we had pugle sticks, you know, and it's like you know, we still you still train in bet in bayonets, you know.
SPEAKER_00It's like you trained with bayonets, you trained with bayonets.
SPEAKER_02Wow, it's one of those where it's just like it's like okay, I understand we use we've done it before. Right. And that well, that's why we always said we're like nowadays, when are we ever gonna be that close to be able to have to use it? Right, but it was one you're trained how to use it so you know how to use it, but doesn't mean you're going to actually use it. Yeah, um, but uh yeah, so that that that was really that was really pretty, pretty fun. And I I had a few good chuckles at that.
SPEAKER_00I thought I heard you laughing a little bit. I was like, what you laughing at?
SPEAKER_02Well then going through the gas chamber, oh yeah, still, still does, still doing all that. That was all the same. Um, you know, them getting their haircuts, you know, they're like, oh yeah, just just a little off the top and stuff, and it's like, yep. And and then uh, you know, they said they, you know, we all look like we were like we were uh prisoners. I was thinking I was like, because we all made the same jokes, you know, it's it's all the same, you know, it still translates over, you know. Um we would always joke about um saying how long your service contract was was the same as how long a prison sentence was, uh was like, oh, how many years did you get? And be like, oh, I got eight years. Oh man, you know so it's kind of funny. It's like so this is just the parallels of that.
SPEAKER_00Um to yeah, and to hear the soldiers, um the real soldiers' voices, right? Um and the camaraderie, and that was familiar also.
SPEAKER_02Oh, absolutely. That's that's all the same. And the way that they described it, where it's like you're there to do a job. Right. You're you know, it's like you don't think anything of it, you're you're told this is what we're doing, and that's what you did. You know, you don't you didn't question it, you just they said this is where we're going and what we're doing, and that's what we're doing, you know. And it's like it's only afterwards you get to reflect back and then think about like, oh, that's that's what I was that's what I was doing.
SPEAKER_00Um it's like you know, but in the moment you're just yeah, you're just especially leading up to it, it must be that way. And and the idea that they were kind of anxious to go.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00They wanted to go.
SPEAKER_02Well, and especially during that time, because yeah, during that time, complex did not dredge on for decades. And it, you know, so they thought, like, okay, the quicker we're there, the quicker we're gonna accomplish the mission, the quicker it's gonna get done. And we kind of went into that when I was in the service because I was in I joined before September 11th, and uh September 11th happened wasn't basic. Right. And so when we went to Afghanistan, we kind of had the same mindset of like we're gonna go there, we're gonna accomplish this, we're gonna get it done, and then it's gonna be over. And it, you know, and of course it we all know it didn't work out that way, but um, you had that mindset of like do the job, you know, do what you gotta do, you know, and get home. And that's it. You know, it's like and you're just you're just there and do what you gotta do. Um, but then when they're talking about like, you know, you gotta you gotta find stuff to pass the time, you gotta find, you know, goofing off with guys, you know, playing cards, you know, and stuff. And you know, it we And that was familiar to it. Oh, absolutely. We always made the we always made the joke that um if somebody knew how to play spades, they either spent time in prison or time in the military. Because it's like the only time when you actually because what else you're sitting around doing nothing in both in both those situations, so it's like all right, well you're gonna learn. So there was a lot of time of just kill kill time, yeah, exactly. And that and that's what that's what a lot of it was. Now we had the advantages of the technology of our times and stuff of be able to have more stuff. Like I literally had a portable DVD player while I was while I was there, you know. It's like, okay, but you know, I only had so many movies to watch, and you can only watch the same movies so many times.
SPEAKER_00Right, right.
SPEAKER_02Um, but yeah, it's um but it's all about you know, you're you're working for the guy next to you, and then they're talking about, you know, they they have their their superiors and they have their um their officers and stuff, but for us it was like that's not who we're we're in it with. We're in it with the guys at our level, we're in with you know the guy next to you and kind of thing. It's like and that's my whole thing was that all right, you know, I'm with my buddy, we're here to get you know get the job done and you know get home and stuff. But yeah, so all that was very, very familiar. I'm so glad we do not fight wars this way anymore.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, the trench war trench wars and the hand to hand. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_02I mean, that was it's so brutal.
SPEAKER_00Literally the only way to win was hand to hand. And knowing that, you know, most people were gonna either be killed or wounded.
SPEAKER_02Right. And the their literal only protection they had was a steel, it was a steel helmet that wasn't even a full protection helmet. It's like it was barely there. It was pretty much to stop something from falling like directly on top of you, right? Was like the only angle that it was gonna actually do anything, and even then it had to be falling at such a slow rate that it wasn't gonna penetrate it, right?
SPEAKER_00And so it's yeah, there was very little of um anything, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And so it's it's just the brutality of it that's just like oh it's so mind-blown. But you know, we still we fight, we still fight brutal wars, we still, you know, we still kill people. Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_00We still kill kill each other, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Um, so for historical per purposes, I thought this was really, really well done. I um when they get to like the the big conflict stuff, and then they don't really have any footage or photos or anything, and they're it's all off of the drawings and stuff. I thought that kind of drug out a little too much.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02That was yeah, it was like I understand that you know they're still telling about what's going on, but and they're trying to put something visual with the dialogue. Yeah, yeah, but all we're looking at is are these illustrations that were done. So for me, I was like, I I didn't really enjoy I didn't enjoy that that part as much. Um the colorization for the most part I didn't mind. Um, it seemed like it was sometimes it seemed like it had a hard time like keeping up with the shot and with the colorization almost seems like it was kind of like missing uh-huh a moment or something, or is it just kind of delayed?
SPEAKER_00Rather than overdoing it, it was like underdone.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Which I I guess if you have to go one way or the other, that's better for me.
SPEAKER_02Right. The most of the time the dubbing I didn't it it was in the background or something, and it was just there, and I didn't think twice about it. But there were a couple times when it was like you you lose the sense of depth of what you're looking at, and it's like, oh, you just because you can see somebody's mouth moving doesn't mean you're gonna hear that conversation clearly, you know, yeah, that's a distance away, there's other stuff going on.
SPEAKER_00Right. You you might catch a word or two, right? Maybe not the whole thing or any of it at all. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02Right. And for this, they made it, you know, it's like crystal clear as if you're standing next to them.
SPEAKER_00And it's like sometimes.
SPEAKER_02Okay, it's like right. Yeah, it wasn't all the time, but it was sometimes. But there was um that's why I was like, okay, then that for me that was the distraction because now it pulls me out of it. And then we've talked about before where it's like, you know, you know, great cinematography, you're not gonna notice because it blends in with everything you just go along for the ride. Same with CGI, where it's like if it's if it's seamless and everything, you know, you don't notice it. Once moments like that happen, then it kind of snaps you out of it, and you're like, Oh yeah, that's right. Yeah, this was dub. This isn't actually that person on the screen talking, it's somebody else talking for them.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and it for me, most of it didn't add anything for me. It seemed like a lot of effort for very little.
SPEAKER_02I I agree with yeah, I I agree with that.
SPEAKER_00I th I like because it I did it didn't because I was uh I was into it already, so I didn't really need that.
SPEAKER_02I agree with the colorization. I thought that that that part of it, yes, okay. I think that definitely added something because it added that extra depth to it. And for that, you're not you're not adding, you're you're adding in color, but it's the colors of everything that were there, it's the look of everything that was there.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02The voices though, it's like you're adding in a voice of somebody who wasn't there. You're even though it's like they they know they've got an idea of what they were saying, and you know, they're doing a good job and they're they're professionals. I don't think it was necessary. I don't think it was either, and I think I would have I would have been totally fine without it and just having the narration of the other guys speaking speaking above it. And I because I thought that was I thought that was fine. And because even though like if it's they because I didn't know like, okay, so the guys that are narrating at the time, obviously those aren't the actual voices of the soldiers who were there.
SPEAKER_00Right, right. Right.
SPEAKER_02They're the oral historians of like, okay, these are the stories that you know this person uh has said, and then I'm reading their story of what they went through. And so, and for me, it's like, okay, I I can appreciate that a little bit more because I'm not seeing their face. I'm not seeing like, you know, oh, this is, you know, right. I'm speaking the voices of this person, and this is now that person's face, and now my voice is representing their so there's that disconnect on that. So I I enjoy the voiceover of just like just them reading because it's um what was um there was the uh was it the TED Talk or was it a by or was it a documentary where they were reading the letters of soldiers? Um I can't remember. Um but it was like family members reading the letters, and so which I which I liked because it's like okay, you know. It is their words, it's their it's their words, it's their true words, right? And it it's not it's not that they had they they didn't have an audio recording to play, so somebody had to read it, right? And so I can I can get that. But yeah, the the dubbing of the of when they're putting in like the the voices and stuff and the action, and when they're and and even some of the sound effects the sound effects when they when they take the sock off the guy and it's like you know, and it's like because it's bloody and it's stuff, and it's like I uh isn't necessary, but again, it's it's the distance of where the shot was to where it's at, and all of a sudden we're like it, you're like almost like right up next to like your face is next to it, like the sock peeling off, and you're gonna hear that that clearly and stuff. And so I didn't care for that. Yeah, when it was gunfire and explosions and stuff going off in the background, I could get that a little bit more. I understood I felt that a little bit more. And with that, it's more of it, it's more of like a f of a fully artist of just timing when the bullets and stuff were going off and stuff, and you know, so they're they're doing that. And I I can get behind that a little bit more. If they did just that, yeah, and left out dialogue, you know, the you know, the dialogue and stuff, I I would have liked it a lot more. I thought it I thought it would have been great.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02Um it is mind-blowing that it was only four years. Yeah. That it's it's just like so many people died in such a short amount of time.
SPEAKER_00And it's and that's the way a war was back then.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It was it was, you know, just putting bodies out there. And yeah, it's it is it is kind of hard to wrap my mind around it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, so uh what did you think about the end when they're talking about when they came back?
SPEAKER_02I I thought there was a lot of parallels, not necessarily to what I went through, but to more of like Vietnam veterans.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_02Um when they came when they came back, and they were saying how uh so I've I feel like as a society in the well, an American society that we have gotten better for soldiers coming home. And yeah, I think we've learned I think we've definitely learned I think we've definitely some. Yes, we've definitely we've definitely learned of uh quite a bit. Um but when they're talking about how they come home and you know, all of a sudden there's no jobs because it's like all of a sudden there are these thousands of guys that just came back at one mass time all looking for work. And you know, they have to, you know, they have to they have to find find work and they gotta find some dude. Right. And some of them were kids when they went in, yeah, that weren't even in the job market in the first place. Right. Well, and so okay, so they were 17 when they went in. Well, they're 21 now, so now they're gonna need a job. And so I it it annoyed me that it was like at the time that they were turn they would literally turn away people who were in the service.
SPEAKER_00Almost like look down upon them for fighting for their country, you know.
SPEAKER_02It's like exactly what? Yeah, it's one of yeah, because they said, you know, there's the big call-up of like, you know, people to join, and it was a it was a it was a sign of pride.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Because in the beginning that's what they're talking about, and then at the end when they're coming back, and it's like people didn't even didn't I don't know if they didn't appreciate it, didn't understand enough.
SPEAKER_02Right, you know, um well and the one guy said, like, oh, I haven't seen you. What are you working nights?
SPEAKER_00You know, and that's like yeah, yeah, they just don't know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um so for for that, yeah. I mean, it was it was it it was really sad, but then at the same time where I was just thinking, you know, we had the Vietnam veterans that not that long ago went through something very, very similar. Right. Of you know, they were coming back and there was the disconnect of people not fully understanding like what they went through. Right and you know the sacrifice.
SPEAKER_00And that's and that's the one thing with Vietnam. I just didn't ever understand how people were being so mean to them or disrespectful to them. They were drafted. Yeah. Most well, maybe they some probab maybe volunteered. Right. But most were drafted. They didn't have a choice.
SPEAKER_02Right, you know.
SPEAKER_00You know, and it's you know, I mean, I guess could have been, you know, go off to Canada or something, I guess.
SPEAKER_02But but you know, they they did what they had to do. Right. And that's and that's what it all comes down to is that you know, they're there to, you know, they're do the job. The job had the job had to be done, and they were the ones to do it.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_02So, but I'm I'm really glad that we've come leaps and bounds from that. And you know, and it's we have programs available for for veterans to be able to come back to be able to find job placements, and then there's transitional programs and stuff, and there's people that actually seek out people who've actually served in the military, you know, for leadership skills and for their other training and stuff that they've gone through. And I I really appreciate that. I think that that's that's amazing. Um I've and that just needs to continue and grow. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, so that that part of it, you know, it's like it's it's rough, but it's it's history. I mean, that's like that's what that's literally what they went through.
SPEAKER_00And the other part too, like World War One, and I think a lot of them probably, and I think I've heard stories from World War II that you know, they never talked about it. The families never talked about it, they never had anybody to talk about it unless it was somebody who had been there.
SPEAKER_02Right. And that was the thing that I could definitely understand because it's like, you know, there's there's the there's the global understanding of what you've gone through and what you've been through from the you know, the shared knowledge of history of like, okay, this is where we're at, this is what we did, but the personal history of somebody who's who was there, you know, and you know, we're talking about like when we came back from Afghanistan and we're still finding sand lodged in our equipment and clothing and gear and stuff that we've been back for months, and it's like, how am I still finding sand? Right. You know, stuff like that.
SPEAKER_00It's the it's the stuff that's how it's it lingers, right? I mean, that's just like a metaphor for yeah, right.
SPEAKER_02So it's so it's it's one of those where it's that shared experience of like I know what you've been through without you actually, even if you weren't even like the same, it's the same company. You don't even have to be, you know, in the same the same company, the same platoon, same anything. And you just know like you were there, I was there. We don't have to talk about like individual stuff that we've done, but a lot of times we'll talk about a funny moment, like we'll talk about something unique that happened and something like that. And it's but when it comes to the the details of it, where it's like we know the stuff to leave out, right? And you know this, you know the questions to ask and the questions not to ask. And because you just know it's like you you there's a different there's a different level of appropriate and non-appropriate when it's somebody who's been there as well, right? Because you have that mutual understanding of like, you know, I'm I'm not gonna ask you certain questions because it's uh maybe a button trigger and something like that for some for some people.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02So like you know, we would talk about you know different stupid stuff that we've done. Like we had to go on a we would go do a run with our our interceptor body armor on that weighs, you know, quite a quite a bit, and you're out there running, you know, in formation, you know, and it's just like oh my god, and it's like it it's just you know, it's just it's just the funny, the funny is what really pushes forward, and that's and that's what it is. Uh you know, because you you see stuff, you do stuff, and you try not to let that dwell, you try not to let that be the end all be all. But you try but you know, the the lighter moments, the funny moments, that's what makes it easier to get through the hard times. And so hopefully that's what you know you can cling to and still bring forth.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I you know, I some of the narrative in this documentary, you know, it it was amazing that they would I don't know, I suppose wrote it out or how they ever did it, um to to uh to say what what they did in the heat of the battle.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean what they saw and how how they behaved.
SPEAKER_02And I I have a feeling that for you know, if they were telling somebody and they were, you know, or they were writing it down or however it was it was passed on, right? That it was somebody very close to them or somebody they felt very comfortable with of like, okay, you were you know, you were a fellow soldier, you understand, you know, I can tell you these things, and you're not gonna think you're gonna think different of me. Right. Because you understand, because you've been there and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. But I mean, I mean the story I s I don't think I'll ever forget uh the soldier that it was a British soldier, but he was so wounded and he was gonna die, and he just shot him.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, where the other guy was was yeah, so far gone. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And he and how uh hurt you can be for knowing that that's what you did.
SPEAKER_02And you know, I and he at the time when they're fighting trench warfare and fighting stuff like that, when that you know, that person was that severely wounded, they have not passed away yet, but they were you know they were going to. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Or or the men that are literally sinking into the mud.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And they couldn't get them out.
SPEAKER_02Uh and it's like you just feel it. And it's like, oh it's you had to leave them there. It's crazy.
SPEAKER_00It's like, oh my god.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. It's yeah.
SPEAKER_00So I mean, and then so these are wild. These are things that, you know, um, soldiers all over the world have you know experienced one way or the other.
SPEAKER_02Right. And, you know, there was not a lot of difference between the World War I uh trench warfare of fighting to the beginning of World War II of the style of fighting that was happening too. Right. And because it I mean, because it it was I mean, there were so I mean there was time between them.
SPEAKER_00There was advances, but still. But it was But it was still probably that same mentality because you know, you you fought the war against the Germans. Right. World War I, you fight the war against the Germans, World War II.
SPEAKER_02And you know, and and I always think like, you know, the way we know how to fight war a new war is the way that we fought the last war. And so that's what that's the knowledge that we go in with.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's gotta be. You pick up from there and then you advance.
SPEAKER_02Right. And then all of a sudden, oh, we can't we can't do it that way anymore. Now we have to do something different. So now we're gonna figure out something different.
SPEAKER_00The way things are, you wouldn't fight the way they did in World War One.
SPEAKER_02You honestly probably wouldn't even fight most of the way that I was even taught when I was going through basic at the time.
SPEAKER_00A lot of things have changed.
SPEAKER_02It's already, you know, because it's already been so much time has passed since then of you know, just and that's and it's just advancement of stuff and you know, the way everything has, you know, way technology progresses and the way, you know, the just the way that wars are fought. And we're not they're definitely not fought the same way anymore. Thank God. Because if it was, it would be ugh.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, it would be totally, yeah, when you knew someone was going off to war that they probably weren't gonna come home.
SPEAKER_02And I feel like that's probably how a lot of World War I felt and World War II felt, where it was just like you're you're just why it was so tragic.
SPEAKER_00I mean, you know, if you're leaving, then you're probably not coming back. And if you come back, you may not be whole, either body or soul. Right, you know, exactly. You will be broken.
SPEAKER_02And I think that was kind of what they were trying to what they were talking about too with the the um the guy who said that, oh, if you're I'm not gonna hold your job for you.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02Because I think that was also their mentality of thinking that you're not you're not coming back. Right. That you weren't you weren't gonna be here to be able to come back to this job anyway, that I need to have somebody to work, so I'm gonna get somebody to work.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02So I think that that was that was part of that, which you know, at it's one of those where it makes it makes sense, unfortunately, because it's like yes, because not because a lot of them did not come back.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, but yeah, it's it's pretty it's pretty wild.
SPEAKER_00So do do you think it's still a lot of uh oh I'm gonna say men, but men and women now go in kind of gung ho. Um and then then reality kind of settles them down.
SPEAKER_02It's it's really in it's really, really interesting. Um when you see people go in for different reasons. Yeah. Um, because you always see the um you see the people that go in um because it is the family heritage, it's what they've all done, all all of their kind of thing. Yeah. Um, so you you have those kind of guys that go the again again, I'm saying guys, but guys and guys and girls, yes. Right, right. Everybody. Um, they go in for that, you know, with that kind of mentality. Then you have the people that were like, Oh, I'm gonna go in, I'm gonna serve a little time, I'm gonna be able to use the GI Bill, I'm gonna be able to go to go to college, education.
SPEAKER_00In education.
SPEAKER_02So that's the avenue that they were going under, and that's where their mindset's at when they go in. Others go in for a career, and that's their their mindset going in of like, no, this is the beginning of my they're not just going in, they're staying in. They're staying in, right? They plan on it. Right.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02But like I always said, that these are all plans, and plans go to crap instantly. So no matter what.
SPEAKER_00Because you do have an idea on whatever um until you're experiencing it.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00Uh so some because it's it can't be like anything else outside of the military. I mean, really, I mean the training and everything. Yeah, I don't think there's anything comparable in the discipline and the group of people that are, you know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So it so the way I always think of it is that you know, the the military life is a world amongst amongst itself. So you have every type of job in the civilian in the civilian world, you have also in the military world. And so everything that you so if somebody has that type of job, whether you know they're a firefighter, a doctor, uh uh MP, uh whatever it whatever it is, um, those are skills that they can use and be able to translate directly into the civilian world, where it's like, I'm here, I did this job, I come out, I know this job, I go into where work in the civilian world, easily transfer rulebook. Then there's the other jobs where they don't transfer over apples to apples like that. Okay. And so then it's more of the leadership skills, the understanding of what you do. Then you look more into deeper of what kind of stuff are you are you capable of doing? What were you doing? Were you doing more technology stuff? Were you doing more hands-on stuff, maybe it's more mechanical stuff. It's like more, you know, and then it's like then you're trying to you're trying to find the best the best fit for that type of life as well. So you always have those different those different avenues of like when people are in and then when people come out of like what their what their skills are gonna be translated for, and then but then also you have the chance to advance and go to colleges and go, you know, and get further education and stuff to be able to actually to be able to add to that, and then you have a better plethora of knowledge and stuff that you can put forth. Um, but yeah, it's um so it's always kind of interesting where it's you you kind of see you see different people going in for different reasons, and then they either stay or don't stay for whatever the reasons may be. But you know, life gets in the way, life happens. You know, the person goes in and then all of a sudden they wanted to be a lifer, but you know, then they fell in love, and then you know, okay, so now they're gonna decide to get out and have a family or whatever the case, whatever the case may be. So yeah, so it's always kind of it was always kind of interesting where it was just like you saw the people going in, and then it's like, okay, now you'll see you know what actually happens and right and who's who's who decides to make it a life.
SPEAKER_00I think a little bit of it is when you go in so young. Well like some of these guys, they were like 15, 16 years old. Right. They were lying about their age and they were.
SPEAKER_02I can I can relate. I I signed my delayed entry contract when I was uh sixteen. No, I was seventeen.
SPEAKER_00I thought you were seventeen.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it was my 17th birthday because I I left for basic when I was still 17 and then turned 18 in basic. Yeah. That sounds about right.
SPEAKER_00But yeah, yeah. So it's so it is when you're that young, you do have ideas of kind of what your the reasons why, but then your reasons why can change as you get older. Exactly. Which is normal, natural. Right. For anything.
SPEAKER_02Well, and I think with with younger people, um, is that you they don't you don't have enough life experience of stuff that you've gone through to question a lot of things. Because everything is new, everything is new when you're young. You know, you're going, you're in school, and it's like, okay, that's everything, school stuff's coming at you. Then you're out of school and you're in the military, everything that's coming at you, then you're deployed, and everything that stuff's coming at you. And then so it's like you don't really have time to like sit back and kind of qu and question everything. Yeah, it's more of just I'm told to do this, this is what I do, and then you just keep keep going forward. I think that once you gain more life experience that you you look back more and you question more and you you know start to analyze a little bit more. But I think when you're young, you don't do that, you just go. Yeah. So I so I think that's that's got that's a big time of like for getting people to join the military young, is like, okay, you know, we're like, we're gonna show you how to do this, we're gonna go do this, and it's like, all right, we'll go do it together, and then then you go and do it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So but yeah, that's I mean, that's of course that's my thing. Yeah, I've been talking an awful lot on this.
SPEAKER_00Well, when it's this topic, I don't have much to relate to.
SPEAKER_02You so you can relate to family stuff, and like you know but this wasn't a lot about family.
SPEAKER_00This was mostly um in the beginning it was. But it really was about the men. And I know at this at this point it was only men. Right. Um, but yeah, I'm I did like the focus on the men. And and to see like and the people that made this the film, yeah. That were in the they were they were there in the explosion. They're filming it.
SPEAKER_01It's like excuse me.
SPEAKER_00Okay, who are you? Who are you? But um I just I thought that was really interesting, but I did like it when you know you just saw the faces, and it could be a face of somebody you saw on the street today. Yeah, you know?
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_00You know, young people, you know, are young people. That's just how it is. It's not a whole lot has changed.
SPEAKER_02Right, exactly. And yeah, they're maybe you know that the young guys they're doing a job. I but you could definitely tell the time period, of course, of when the camera comes out because at this time, at this time it's new, it's new, and these cameras are not small, like they are they are mass, they are big and they're and they're heavy.
SPEAKER_00So they were like, Oh, yeah, they're taking pictures of us. All right, we're gonna be on the film. Right.
SPEAKER_02And nowadays it's like somebody's holding out their cell phone, yeah, you know, and somebody's just like, all right, whatever, you know, and just walks up walks on by. But you know, then it's like, hey, we're gonna like the guy who said, Hey, we're gonna be on on on the film.
SPEAKER_00You know, it's like here comes, here comes, you know, because it's panning. Right, right. You know, yeah, but I I did like it that um I mean just so many faces of people and you know, that they could be people from today, you know?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, exactly. Yeah, they they totally could be.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And you know, 'cause it's it it's not like I said, not a lot n for that aspect, not a lot has changed where it's still majority are young, you know, young people going in, you know, and depending on how long they stay, you know, and how what age they're gonna be, but you know, if we're going in, most of them are are very young.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But but yeah, so overall, as an entire as a documentary, yes, I I thought it was good.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_02Like I said, there are the points of it that I that you you wouldn't have made that choice. I wouldn't have made wouldn't have made that wouldn't have made that choice. Um I I don't know about the the the slow pull in and pull out at the very beginning and end. Yeah, that was I thought it drug on a little too long. Yeah, that was a and then it's black and white, you know, and then when it finally the color happens when they go it it was funny, was because you told me that it's colorized, and then we're watching the beginning and I'm like that they just so lightly colorize it, and then so I'm like really studying it, and I'm looking and I'm like, No, and then when they do the flip, and then it's like, oh no, there it is. Okay, yeah, because yeah, because I was like, I was like, was it just like so subtle color that it was like just barely there or something? So I was like, okay.
SPEAKER_00But but I did I I like that they they weren't trying to fool anybody, right? You know, they are showing you it it what the original film looked like. It's black and white, this is how it looked, and now we're gonna like enlarge it, we're gonna enhance it, and then we're gonna colorize it when they go actually go into battle.
SPEAKER_02Right, exactly.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so and when they came out of battle, then they you know took away the color and then it just kind of slowly went back. I mean, again, that's a choice.
SPEAKER_02And I and I understand the parallel of like, okay, we're in black and white because you know, it's before they go, and then once they're there, then it's in color.
SPEAKER_00But it I don't know, because it it kind of gives this feeling of just negativity for their home life because it's not color, because it's not in color, it's just a little dull, a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so but I mean it but it's more yeah, reality of what a film would look like at that time if they got to see it.
SPEAKER_02Right, exactly. And I and I I can I understand that, but at the same time, it's like whether intentionally or unintentionally, you kind of create that um of just bleak and like you know, the void of because it's devoid of color and it's you know, even though they're showing like the I just I really enjoyed the colorization of this.
SPEAKER_00I like the sky.
SPEAKER_02I I I liked yeah, and um I I wish that I kind of I kind of wish that they just would have done the whole thing in color.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And not and not do it from because like they're doing the training, and you know, and you know, and they're getting ready to go and they're you know, they're doing like you know, they're they're going through the you know, the in you know the induction process and stuff, you know, getting the haircuts and stuff like that. And it's like it it's still the guys, you know, they're still talking about it. It's like we could colorize up.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but but it was a choice not to colorize the entire thing. Yeah, it's yeah, I don't know. I'm sure there's a reason behind it.
SPEAKER_02Of course, I'm I'm sure I'm sure Mr. Jackson did have a reason, but I I think I would have been I would have been totally fine with one way or the other, either all colorized or all black and white. And if you're all black and white, then it's like okay, it's archival, that's what it is. And if it's all colorized, you're like, okay, look you're consistent all the way through.
SPEAKER_00So I see that. I see that's I don't know.
SPEAKER_02That's my that's my opinion.
SPEAKER_00This this is one where people do fall on one side or the other with this too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That you know, there's but for me, I think most of it I liked, and I think the heart of it I liked. Right.
SPEAKER_02The heart and the message of everything, and I I like that a lot. And we've seen other documentaries where it's about the people that are going through their their shared experience of stuff, like we have uh in the shadow of the moon, um, where it's the Apollo astronauts talking about what they went through and everything. And that's that's all the voices that you hear are just the Apollo astronauts talking about it. And that this is kind of this is done in a similar way where it's you know there is no other narration.
SPEAKER_00Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I find the the overdub narration of just like somebody just sitting there reading a script of not of talking about it really a disconnect for that. So I'm glad it wasn't that.
SPEAKER_01No.
SPEAKER_02Um I'm glad that Peter Jackson was never seen in the film. I I appreciate that.
SPEAKER_00He doesn't put himself in front of the camera.
SPEAKER_02Right, usually because I've I've seen that too, where it's like they do documentaries and stuff where they have like an interview process and then they have like, you know, they and they do back and forth, and it's like, okay, you're not this is not 60 minutes. This is not in dateline, you're not you're you know, it's like we're focusing on who on who we're talking to. And it's like, you know, it's like not not the person asking the questions.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So uh, but so I'm glad it wasn't that.
SPEAKER_00So it wasn't that.
SPEAKER_02But yeah, overall, I would I would highly recommend this film. Um that I think it's it's good for um anybody who's either been in the service or hasn't been. Um, I think that there's a lot to learn, a lot to take away from it. Yeah. So I think I think it's definitely a good one.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_02Um, yeah, I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_02I don't know. Like I said, I feel like I've rambled for quite a bit on this one. So I was like, I don't want to overvalue you.
SPEAKER_00No, no, no, not at all. Not at all. No. I think I I liked hearing what you had to say about it because we don't really watch war movies. And um I think there there is a reason why, because I I feel so differently about it because I have never been there.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00I've never been in any of it. So I think if I had, I well, maybe I would watch them even less. But you know, but I would I would bring something to it.
SPEAKER_02What you do is you just critique them. That's what that's what that's what I think. They got this right, they got that wrong. We do all the me and my buddies, we do that all the time. We're just like we're just like, Did you see how wrong that one was? Oh my gosh, can you believe who was the advisor on that film? You know, like you believe somebody got paid to be that advisor, and it's like, man, they got that so wrong. Um but uh yeah, it's it's interesting where it's like we can for I can only speak because I've I've been in the military so of when I see it done right, you know it's good and you know it's right. And then when it's wrong, it's just blatantly wrong, and it's just like slap you in the face how wrong it is. Um so but I there's a lot it's more that more often than not, more more films are correct and they're they're right.
SPEAKER_00I think they try hard to do it, yeah. Right, because they do know there's people out there that don't rip it apart, yeah, that have have been there, and it's like yeah, don't misre don't misrepresent us.
SPEAKER_02Exactly, exactly. And I think that's that's the big part of it.
SPEAKER_00And that was the piece too with Peter Jackson that he was asked that if he did make a documentary, he had to be had to be respectful, right? And I think he kept his word.
SPEAKER_02I definitely do I definitely think.
SPEAKER_00That was something that was obviously very important.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. I like all right, so should we go and wrap this up? I guess so. All right, well, thank you everybody for listening. Sorry this one was so long, but we had a we had a lot to say on this one. So uh thank you for all those who listened to the whole thing. Uh make sure you go make sure you go check out They Shall Not Grow Old. And until next time, I'm Barry. And I'm Robin. And we will talk to you guys later.
