The UnlearnT Podcast
The UnlearnT Podcast is designed to help you gain the courage to change your mind about things you never thought you would change your mind about. Our hope is that you will begin to move towards a life of freedom after hearing stories from individuals who have chosen to unlearn some things in their lives.
The UnlearnT Podcast
Talks With Middle Adults: How to Overcome Your Giant of NORMAL
The episode emphasizes the necessity of unlearning outdated norms that hinder personal growth and freedom. Co-hosts engage in conversation around adapting to changing societal expectations, sharing personal anecdotes, and discussing generational dynamics of normalcy.
• Introduce the concept of unlearning from familial teachings
• Discuss societal expectations versus personal truths
• Share personal narratives of change and adaptation
• Explore generational differences in coping with norms
• Emphasize communication and mentorship across ages
• Challenge listeners to redefine their definitions of normal
hello, hello, hello everybody, and welcome once again to the unlernt podcast. I am your host, ruth abigail aka ra what's up, friends? It's your girl, jaquita and this is the podcast that's helping you gain the courage to change your mind so that you can experience more freedom. And uh, it is. Let's see, it is our first series of the year. Yeah, we're excited. We're excited to have you all. Hey, before we jump in, we just want to say one more big thank you for everybody joining our very first facebook live, youtube live event.
Speaker 1:Um and uh, y'all showed up, y'all showed out, you, you, uh, you did your thing it was.
Speaker 2:It was fun, all the calls and the text messages afterwards, the messages yo, for everybody who was there in that live audience. Thank you for hyping up the conversation, okay yes because that was, that was literally one of the best experiences of my life. Like it was, it was an amazing time.
Speaker 1:Like it really was the way, uh, the lord oh boy, oh boy, don't get me stirred up, saints, I'm gonna stay tame today yeah, please, let's do that, because, because y'all, really, y'all, really like, quita was about to like fly out of her chair and several moments during that live she really was struggling to contain herself.
Speaker 2:I told Ruth that when I rewatched it I was like I'm just sitting there rocking, like the mothers Not rocking. Yes, lord, yes Lord. It was so good.
Speaker 1:She just told me that every time as I was talking and she wanted to interrupt me because she had something good that came, she had to sip her tea. So if you watch it and you look back, every time she's sipping tea, just know she's holding something back because I'm talking. She waited but ruth was saying some good stuff but I understand it like you know, I want to jump in, I want to jump in.
Speaker 2:I just think that's funny, I think that's a very, you know that's a very good experience though yes, very much so very much so we want to make sure you know the saints are getting both of us amen, amen.
Speaker 1:So, if you remember, in our in the live, we shared that we'll be starting a new series, so this is a series where we really want to dive into what it looks like to unlearn that which was um well, I'll say it like this that which we learned around our kitchen tables. So you know for those of us that, like myself, we would have dinner most days out of the week, and you know, you taught things like you're. You taught things that are true by your parents, and you see things, you learn things. You also though the kitchen table can be expanded beyond an actual kitchen table you are in environments in which you learn things to be true or not true, and then, even more so in our general society, generations experience life differently that say this is true, this isn't true, this is right, this is wrong, this is what I should expect, this is what I shouldn't expect.
Speaker 1:So we have these kitchen table experiences on all these levels, right Personal, communal and societal and so what we want to do is unpack things that we have to unlearn based on that mentality, because the reality is everything that we've learned in our families, our communities and society isn't necessarily relevant or healthy for us in this season of our life, and so the so we want to, we want to unpack that, and today, um, oh, wait, hold on. I got to remember and we got to do better with this. Uh, this year, Remember if this, if this is of any value to you, all right, you remember to like, comment, share, subscribe.
Speaker 1:Uh, because we want to continue to get to know our community. We want to expand our community, and the only way we do that is for if you yeah, you, I'm looking at you If you help us to share this podcast with more people. So I'm telling you at the top share like subscribe, download, All right.
Speaker 2:Tell a friend, to tell a friend.
Speaker 1:Okay, you can find it on Facebook, instagram or YouTube. All right, we are in all those spaces. So just Apple Podcasts, spotify, anywhere you listen, it's there. And so we really want you guys to connect and make sure that you do that again. If this is of value to you, and you know what, if it ain't of value to you, don't worry about it, it's cool.
Speaker 2:No problem. If it's not valuable to you, it's valuable to somebody else still share oh lord even if you watch you, okay, they're off the day, like it anyway, yeah, like it anyway.
Speaker 1:So we, we don't do it anyway, we're not gonna be on all the time, but you know, we, we appreciate the grace as long as the Lord is on, okay, and he wins. Thank you, chiquita. So, yeah, that's what our, that is what our series is about, and so we hope you guys tune in for the next several weeks on that, hey. So here's what's interesting. We just named all the different things so that we are on, but you know what we're not on? We're not on TikTok, and I think, no, nobody is I on TikTok, and I think no, nobody is going to say I think that that is okay, because seeing a TikTok is very likely, um, to not be here, uh, from from here on, it is.
Speaker 1:It is something is changing in our, in our society, and we're going to talk a little bit about what it looks like today, our society, and we're going to talk a little bit about what it looks like today, um, like how do you navigate normal in different seasons of your life and what do we have to unlearn about normal in different seasons? And so we bring up TikTok because, uh, for a lot of y'all and I'm not one of y'all, I'm not, I've never been a TikToker, I don't have TikTok, I never downloaded TikTok, but I know a lot of people that do and TikTok has been a very staple norm in your life and I just want to be the first to say I'm so sorry that you're going to have to go through this little shift.
Speaker 2:Listen, the saints are in mourning.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:I saw all of y'all little Instagram posts and TikTok may be back by the time y'all actually watch this. I don't know. No, nobody know what's about to happen with the tickety top, okay, but the saints are in mourning. Y'all done all, posted the little I have, tiktok, and I thank TikTok for those couple of perfumes I was able to buy for the low Shout out to TikTok for that. A couple of recipes I got from TikTok, thank you. I was not a big TikToker, okay, you know I'm a Facebook and Instagram girly. I really don't know what I'm doing on those other ones, but nevertheless, the saints are in mourning, okay, and y'all are going to have to learn what Ruth Abigail told y'all last week Y'all going gonna have to learn how to pivot. Okay, y'all gonna have to pivot up out of there.
Speaker 1:I'm not really sure what that is.
Speaker 2:It's the truth, Even if TikTok does come back. I don't know why. Tiktok is the one where society was like we ain't having it Okay, we not having this tickety-tock stuff. You wanna know why? It's because y'all started doing all them dances. Y'all wanted to get on there and you started doing it at the workplaces and you upset the boomers. You upset the older generation.
Speaker 1:Because y'all was at work doing it Real talk, though this is a little like, it's a little like this. But we got a parent. I had a team member receive a text from a parent with one of her children doing a tick in a tiktok dance at angel street right, because during break they that's one of the things that they love to do is do tiktoks. And she, she found it and she didn't so much like the song they were dancing to, which is fair, I didn't either, but it was funny because for this generation they're like, I mean, it's really not that big of a deal, like that's fine and and and in comparison to other things that you see it, it wasn't, but it also, I agree it wasn't appropriate, um, and it was just really interesting. Like you know, that is true. Like there, there are things in the generation that younger generations, that older ones, are like hey, hey, we don't like this, shut this down you know, tiktok, I also think, became such a staple in how people do things.
Speaker 2:You know, how are you gonna make money? Oh, I do it through tiktok. Oh, you know, whereas like instagram and facebook which, yes, the millennials bought those in. You can thank us later, okay, but instagram and facebook was like look at my kids, we went to to the zoo.
Speaker 1:That is so true.
Speaker 2:You know, this is so wonderful at the zoo, but TikTok came in and became an industry and everybody was like hold up, hold up. This has to. We need to put some policies and guidelines and procedures around this. So you know, y'all, y'all took TikTok to the next level and now TikTok need just, she just need a little rest. Tiktok is tired. Y'all, y'all done. Wore TikTok out. Tiktok said give me a moment, just give me a minute.
Speaker 1:And I think it's interesting because, to your point we TikTok was, it did serve something, an important medium in a lot of people's lives and seasons. And I do want to acknowledge that during the pandemic it was a very relevant, necessary thing for people to connect in a different way, especially for younger generations, and for to connect in a different way, right, not just connect with personal information, like you were saying, just updates on lives, but like like information. I mean, so many people tell me you know, tiktok teaches you so much, like I learned how to do this on TikTok and all this and again, I'm not a TikToker, I don't. The only reason I downloaded it one time is because you know, there was a time where I could watch the TikToks that somebody sent me just on the browser and then they changed to where you had to have the app and so I like caved and got the app and then I deleted it the next day because I didn't want it. So, but like I, so I, but I, so I don't have that experience, but I hear all the time like, no, tiktok is not just for fun, like I actually learn and gain information from it, and so it's to be acknowledged, like, hey, it's useful. It is not just a fly-by-night tool, it's a real useful thing.
Speaker 1:But the question is what happens when, because of no fault of your own and it's out of your control, something happens that changes your norm? Like, what do you do and what is the proper response? Right, is it to and I think this is a general question that I do ask, and I think even we ask during the after the pandemic for a lot of different things, work being one of them. Right, this is also, like you know, is it? Do we push into Do I need to be up in here? Well, yeah, like, do we push to? Do we keep pushing forward in these new kind of ways that we connect and work, or do we recreate what we used to have?
Speaker 2:Wait a minute because I feel like I have a relevant example. I don't know if I've ever shared this on the podcast, but about two years ago my house flooded and I, you know, I was gone for Christmas. I was gone for Christmas break and I came back and I was in my garage and I heard water like a river flowing and I walked in my house and it was water everywhere and it was devastating because the floor I had carpet then was soaked to where, if you walk through it, you could see the tracks of you walking through the house. And when it came time, they had to cut out part of my wall, rip up all of the flooring and I had a completely new template and I remember I was out because I had to go shopping for floors and paint colors and new furniture.
Speaker 2:Everything had to get replaced and I remember I was out and I was like, okay, I just want the same gray flooring that was in the kitchen, let's just put that all through the house. And I remember I had out and I was like, okay, I just want the same gray flooring that was in the kitchen, let's just put that all through the house. And I remember I had a friend pull me to the side and she said you're trying to recreate what was when you are going to have to embrace what God is trying to build for you.
Speaker 2:And a lot of times we get to points in our lives where we're like okay, this is what I learned from my parents or this is what I saw my parents have and I need to recreate this and put those same gray floors in this new structure. And the Lord is saying take a step back, because I'm trying to do something new and you're going to have to find a new normal. And that's not always easy to do, because we want to build off of the template and not off of god's plan um, I am reminded of the uh, new wine, old wineskins reference amen in scripture.
Speaker 1:I mean, it was good. Yes, you shall did um, but but like you know, the reality is, when we try to recreate what was to put in something new, the thing that they won't last very long together. They're not going to last very long.
Speaker 2:Are you saying that the old and the new won't coexist very long together? Is that what you just said? I think that's what I said. Yes, is that what I said, and it was good Amen.
Speaker 1:Amen, amen, amen, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, no, no, no no, yeah, yeah, no, no, no, no, no. They don't, yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't. It doesn't last very long, especially when, when, when it's when it's when you're fighting up against each other Because often that's that's the tension, right is, this is what is, but this is what I want. I'm going to, I'm going to basically force these two things to work.
Speaker 1:And oftentimes that is not so and oftentimes that is not so. So the beautiful thing. So let's take. Let's take work, for example, because I think the work place has been a real source of tension in this conversation Like where, what do we even for me, right, I mean, I struggle with doing? You know, I do work with young people, at teenagers, and so the way that we connect to teenagers like I was trained in a different way right when I was trained, I was trained to go in to schools and connect with kids directly in schools, kind of be at the school for a long time, really, kind of like use a lot of my time in the schools, fluctuating, making informal connections and connecting with young people in that way, and that is still a way to do it. However, when you look at the pandemic and you look at the way a lot of schools are operating now, it is not nearly as easy to be that flexible inside of schools, right, and so the way I even have to train my team as to how to make connections with young people Now I have to be willing to not force the way I was trained onto them, because it's what I understand the most and it's what I know, worked when it worked, but I the thing.
Speaker 1:I think one of the things about um existing at a new normal is understanding that anything new you're going to have to be open to learn. So even if you are leading, if something is new, the first, the first thing you have to do as a leader is learn. You've got to do learning before you can then help your, help, the people behind you or around you to embrace something. So that means you're no longer in a posture of directing and teaching. You're in a posture of directing and teaching, You're in a posture of student because I don't know. And so you have to humble yourself to a place where it says we say, okay, I don't have an answer to this question. The best I have is an answer that is old and that's not good enough.
Speaker 1:So, let's pause, let's learn together and then let's, let's form a new way, and that that could be really. That could be really really tough, right, because you're fighting against the old.
Speaker 2:But I think that that's so key because, you know, I think a huge part of our podcast and the reach of it is to help, like, one generation of leaders, understand how to impart and build and instruct and guide the next generation of leaders. And I oftentimes find myself like really studying them and being like. Y'all are different, you know, like and I'm not even talking about like me as as a millennial to the people who are children right now. I'm talking about me as an older millennial to some of the younger millennials. I'm talking about me as a millennial talking to people who are in the Gen Z era and that's early 20s. Now y'all you know what I'm saying. They children, they are young adults for real.
Speaker 2:And I remember I had a conversation because, you know, when I went through school, when I was in college, the college right, everything was about together. You know we did study groups. You know we went and did things together. You know if we went out somewhere, it was together. You know, if I'm in a class, I'm trying to connect with other people because everything was about community, Whereas I have often found myself trying to create community with a younger generation that does not embrace it and telling them and I'd be like, cause, you know, like I'm in school right now and most of the people I'm in school with are my friends, I have a good bit of friends in my program and I'm like, hey, y'all, y'all want to study together.
Speaker 2:Y'all want to, and they're like not really. And I'm like what happened to study groups around here? You don't do that on my own, and so I had to readjust my framework of how I engage them, and it requires giving them a lot of independence, but being a soft place for them to land when things don't go as they expected it to, Because I'm the one with the experience, but they're the one with the proper perspective about what the people they're serving needs right. So, like they're the ones who are actually doing the work and I'm the one that has to support them and give them the proper framework. And so it requires, it's going to require more give on the part of the older generations than I think sometimes we're prepared to give. And I think that this is applicable also in parenting, because I think we try to parent children how we were parented Absolutely.
Speaker 1:We're like, hey, what's?
Speaker 2:wrong with this? You know, I grew up on the spare, the rods for a child. You know, I grew up on the what I say goes, you know.
Speaker 2:I grew up on don't ask me no questions. Just do what I say. You know I grew up on and, but you haven't. The only way you can redefine what's normal is if you take a step back and really, really deal with what needs to be dismantled in you. What did that do in you? And I'm not I'm not sitting here. I'm not a huge proponent for gentle parenting, you know. I want you all to do what works for your household. I want y'all also to be balanced, Okay, Okay, but you know what I'm saying. Like, I'm not a proponent for one or the other, but I am a proponent for, for stepping back and critically thinking. Okay, you're trying to use the same methods and the same attitude and the same uh, uh things that you were under, but you struggled with some of that stuff and it had a deeper impact on you than you're even recognizing for yourself. How are you? Why won't you take a step back and do what's necessary for you to heal and have understanding, so you can give that to your child?
Speaker 1:have understanding so you can give that to your child. So, quida, what about normal is feels is safe and comfortable for you?
Speaker 2:Why is normal safe and comfortable? Normal is safe and comfort because I think normal has established a pattern right. When we talk about normal, we say, okay, I can predict that A plus B is going to get me to C, because this is the pattern that I have established, that is now normal in my life and I want to keep that normal. A plus B equals C, because then it requires less from me. I don't have to change, I don't have to shift, I don't have to become something new in order to get something new. I can just keep myself in the same cycle, doing these same things and getting exactly what I expect. And so normal is safe. And so normal is safe. Normal a lot of times feels because it's predictable. It's predictable and you have already seen the evidence of what is normal in your life.
Speaker 2:That's correct you have not yet seen the evidence of doing something new. Yeah, and so, even though sometimes the results that you got from doing A plus B equals C, even though sometimes those were not the results that you really wanted and that's not like the hope that you really have for your life, sometimes we stay in it just because, well, at least I know what I'm going to get Right. Sometimes we stay in those relationships because at least I know I'm sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. At least I know what I'm going to get. That's real. And a lot of times we don't want because you getting something different is not dependent on somebody else bringing something different to your life.
Speaker 1:It's depending on you deciding to change and you deciding to break the norm in order to get something better. So y'all know we, y'all look, y'all know us, but let them know. We have a plan Today. We have a plan, by the way, we actually have a plan. We have notes and everything, but what I'm about to do is I'm about to go. I'm about to go left.
Speaker 2:I already knew we weren't going to really get to these notes like that.
Speaker 1:So, basically, everything you just said cause just sparked in me. Can we talk a little bit about, um, the children of Israel? Uh, I know, I know I'm going a little bible, which is is not always the norm for this podcast but, um, I think this is.
Speaker 1:This is an excellent, uh, illustration of what it looks like to fight against what's new and want to go back to what you know. Right, um, is the when, the when, when they, when they ask a question, when they the complaining we don't have where's our food, why we gotta keep eating this same stuff. We in the wilderness, right, um, we were, we were doing better in egypt. Now, for those who are not, uh, thank you, bring the hard copy, get us, get us to the hard copy get us to the hard copy.
Speaker 1:But, but let me just this is for those of you that are are not familiar with the story um, you know, the children of israel were in bondage in egypt for 400 years. Uh, moses comes, and, through a series of events, they are delivered from egypt. Okay, they then escape egypt, cross over a sea, so they're completely, uh, separated from egypt and their old life. But they walk and they get into a situation where they're in the wilderness. They have it, they're in between bondage and freedom. They haven't reached freedom, but they're no longer slaves in bondage. They're in that in-between stage and they're getting tired, and they're tired of what they don't, they're tired of living in the middle. And so, because, to your point, because I don't know what freedom looks like, I'd rather go back to what I know, even if it means I'm going to be enslaved, right?
Speaker 2:I'm sorry because I'm right there. We actually talked about this in church today. Look at God. You better pull a word. You better pull it out of the atmosphere is what you better do, y'all you know. I just want to take a moment and for those of you who have been, you know supporters for a while. You know me and Ruth Abigail's relationship and you know how different we are. And in this moment, right now, I'm just so proud because I see the impact of my love and support of her. I see that coming to fruition right before my very eyes. It's so beautiful to see.
Speaker 1:Don't ruin it. Don't ruin it.
Speaker 2:Somewhere in the chat y'all just tell Ruthie proud of her, don't ruin it. No, she out here. She got a word on the inside of her, but anyways, you know. So we were talking about Numbers 13 in church today, and it's the moment where, again, if you're familiar with the story, you know they finally do get to the point where they're close to the promised land. Right, they left Egypt, which was a place of bondage. They've been in the wilderness, which is like kind of that in-between place, but it's not a fun place to be, but it is a place where we're having to trust God every day.
Speaker 2:And God is trying to rework their normal out of bondage. Because you were in bondage. We have to redefine what normal is for you. That's correct. You need to do it before you get over there. That's right, right. So if anybody feels like they're in an in-between place either, you are just in a place where God is trying to redefine what you feel is normal, because the promise is bigger than the place of bondage. The promise is bigger. It's bigger than the persecution.
Speaker 1:And if that's, that's that's. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. Keep going. No, it's all right. You know we we're hype right now, well, I mean because, well, I just wanted to say like, and if you're not, if you don't, if, if, if you're, if your normal doesn't change before you get to your freer place, you will bring your bondage into your freedom and recreate it yeah, yeah yeah, that's exactly what.
Speaker 2:But root, that's exactly what happened. They sent 12 spies into the land right, one from each tribe. There's 12 tribes of Israel. They sent 12 spies into the land right and they went over there and they saw the fruit and the milk and the honey God promised I'm going to bring you to a land that's flowing with milk and honey, right. And he told them everything that was going to be over there. They went over there and saw it. They even brought some of it back. They brought it back. They said hey, y'all, the grapes are as big as our heads, right, it is indeed a land that is flowing with milk and honey. So what they did? They came back and they said the promise is indeed there.
Speaker 2:So what they did? They came back and they said the promise is indeed there, right, but 10 of the spies said to the people yes, the promise is there, but there's giants in the land. You got the Amalekites up there, you got the Canaanites, you got this, you got that. We got people on the top, on the bottom, all the side, and they're stronger than us. And so, basically, they said look here, guys, here's what we could have, but because there's giants in the land, we're not going to have it. And there was only one man who stood up, caleb, and he said, caleb, still the people before Moses and said let us go up at once and possess it, for we are well able to overcome it.
Speaker 2:The question is what did you learn in the wilderness that prepared you to go and possess it? Because it's a mindset shift. The promise is there. The thing that God said you would have, it's there, but do you believe that you're well able to overcome the threat that is there? Or are you standing back saying I'm not a God has things, but maybe it's not for me because I'm not strong enough, I'm not good enough, I'm not wise enough, I'm not smart enough to get it, because they actually had. They had it in their hands, right. And so we do have to get to a point where we are allowing God to rework what is normal for you, because they were still used to being in bondage.
Speaker 1:Man, and I think that is, um we're used to being. Can we just say just have, be honest here, and, and and you know what the details of this are. But for so many of us, because we come from imperfect people and come from imperfect homes and environments and communities, for so many of us, bondage has been a part of our normal for a long, long time, whether that is bondage in your relationships, in your finances, in your own mindset of your progression, of who you can be. Uh, but you know, but there's you, we have lived in. This state of. This is how it must be because of where I've come from. This is how it must have to be because of what's around me and all this stuff. At some level. That is probably true for everyone and we know that, statistically, most, most of the time, right, statistically, most of the time, um, that which, whatever it is you come from, is repeated Statistically. That's true, all right, um, however, there are always exceptions to the rule. So what does it take to be an exception? What does it take to flip from? I'm sorry y'all, i'm'm sorry if you didn't catch it.
Speaker 1:Quina just sipped her tea. Clearly something sparked in her spirit and she said she was like pause, she gonna write it down and come back to it. But, um, but, but what, like? What does it take to be the exception? And, even more so, what does it take to flip the rule? And so I think that the that one of the things we have to master is unlearning that whatever is normal for you is permanent. You have to unlearn that normal is permanent. The only thing that is permanent in life is change. The question is, are you going to embrace it or are you just going to settle in your normal, even if it's toxic and unhealthy?
Speaker 2:Listen. Okay, that was really really good that. What does it take to be an exclusion or to be the exception of something? One, two things flashed through my mind at the same time. One is I really struggled growing up with this idea, and you know, I know we have a variety of different people that listen to us. Okay, I'm just going to talk about my experience.
Speaker 2:I really struggled growing up and in college with this idea of being a great black hope, you know, of being the one, like, we're going to be the one to change the game. All right, we're going to college, you know, and she and she's going to go, and she's going to be different, right, and I, it built up in me this idea that I had to perform and that I had to be a rescuer right, and that I had, that I could not let anybody down, right, and so you have to go back. And when you're thinking about what does it take to be the exception to something, it is one thing to do it right, like I was the first person in my family to go to college. You know, I remember at my college graduation, my uncle cried when he saw my degree because he said I've never seen one of these before and that wrecked me right.
Speaker 2:And I remember thinking I did it, I did it, guys, all right, I made it. Told me to go to college, I went to college, I graduated, I did it right. And then after that I was like does that make me? Does that make me the exception? Right, and when I changed my major to religion, my mama was like, oh, that's not, that's not the exception we were looking for. You know, right, we need to put some more. And so, like, dealing like the exception, being the exceptional one, is not about doing the thing. It is about becoming something that your family has never seen before, becoming someone in character, becoming someone in belief and faith and hope. And it's going to require you to have a different level of exposure and a different level of risk. Right, because if I'm the only one that went to college, that means that I had to take a different level. I had to take a different approach to life than other people may have. Right, I had to go a path that nobody had ever been on before. Right, everything about it set me on a different course.
Speaker 2:I was watching this little clip from Myron Golden, who Ruth Abigail loves and I love too. I just need to listen to him more consistently. But I was watching this little small clip from him and he talks about how anybody that was going to change a generation, god literally took them out of their homes and put them into a home of a king. Right, joseph got plucked from his natural environment and got put into the house of a king. Esther, plucked from her natural environment home of a king. Moses plucked from his natural environment home of a king. Right, you are going to have to get into a new environment that is going to prepare you for the level of impact and exposure that you are supposed to have, right, and that can bring tension. Right, moses had a lot of tension between him and the Israelites because he didn't grow up with them. He didn't grow up in the same mindsets and environments that they did, but he was the one called to deliver them. Joseph tension with his brothers right, because he was different. He had something different on him and when he got plucked out and put into a new place, he was again the one that was called to deliver that group of people. And so you are going to have to if you want to be the exception. You are not going to be able to do it in the environment that you grew up in right. You are going to have to break some of those ties to normalcy, to the normalcy that you grew up with right.
Speaker 2:One thing that I was thinking about when we were preparing for this podcast is that I grew up thinking that it was normal to struggle. It was normal to struggle financially. It was normal to struggle with even things like weight it was normal to struggle with, with being accepted it was normal to struggle. It was just normal to struggle emotionally, physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually. Normal to struggle emotionally, physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually. All of that struggle was normal. It really wasn't until, especially in elementary and middle school. It wasn't until I got to high school, right, because in elementary you're going to school with people in your neighborhood, so y'all getting off the bus going to the same place, right? Middle school, community broadens, high school Now we got all these new people and I was going to my friends houses and I was like y'all ain't struggling the simple stuff for me.
Speaker 2:I was like you got, you got a garage, yeah, yeah. And so all of a sudden, I started getting exposed and started understanding that maybe this is not as normal or this is not. It's a problem when your normal becomes necessary. Yeah, I thought it was necessary.
Speaker 1:That's good.
Speaker 2:That's good. I thought that everybody had to get it from the bottom.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know what I'm saying Get it out the mud.
Speaker 2:Yeah, get it out the mud. Yeah, get it out the mud. Get it out the mud, man, because that's all I, you know. I was like, yeah, you know what I'm saying. We came up from the slums, you know, not from the slums, but you know, I grew up in the country but nevertheless, you know, whatever your struggle story is, however, you, have to tell it.
Speaker 2:And this is not to say I didn't know what was going on in those homes. I didn't know what struggles and things that they were actually going through. I just knew that there was a life bigger than the one I had ever known. Right, I knew that there was more that was available to me. And even now I have to go like what I just told you guys about my house. God has to wrestle with me to get me to move towards more Cause. I'm like no, I got. I got this, this is nice, this is nice. And the Lord's like I got it. You know the, you know the, uh, the, the scripture everybody quotes when they want to say that God got a lot, got a lot to get out.
Speaker 1:I got a cattle on a thousand hills. You know, I got streets of gold.
Speaker 2:And so what does it mean? When you think about being the exception right, there is, you have to break the need that. You have to do the thing that you grew up with. And I had to. I had to switch that thing. I had to say, jaquita, you don't have to expect or accept struggle. You can ask God for victory, right, and that's not something we ever did growing up. What we did growing up was saying, hey, we're going to hustle, we're going to work hard, we're going to make a thing happen, Right. And then I got into my late twenties and I was like this dad, that ain't on us, yeah, yeah, not when you the exception cause, god is going to pull you in closer and um, and it, it's a life process to get you to let go, because you don't realize how tightly you are holding on to what you were exposed to.
Speaker 1:That's really good. I like what you said. You can't make normal, your necessary, and that's really good. And you, um, because I, here's the thing with the exception um, we glorify exceptions and and, on one hand, we and we, we should, on one hand, but I also think it's it's uh, very limiting to do that right, because it the exception is the exception because, uh, the rule is, um, because, because the rule is more prevalent, right, the whole part, the whole.
Speaker 1:so, if, if, if, the thing that is notable, the thing that is, if the free place is an exception, that means bondage is the norm. So what do you do to flip it right? And I think the thing, how do you make freedom the norm and bondage the exception? I think the answer lies in those that are the trailblazers as the exceptions to the rule, then beginning to embrace that and normalize freedom so that other people can catch on, so that you can be the new environment that somebody finds that's different than them.
Speaker 2:But if you don't embrace it.
Speaker 1:And if you, if you try to um, if you're put in a position to be an exception in some way and you're put in a position to shift the norm of your family, of the generationally or whatever however that looks for you, and you don't do it, you don't just, you're not just stopping you, but you're stopping countless number of people that you could be that guidance for, because so many people need a picture of what it looks like outside of their norm.
Speaker 1:And we need people brave enough to paint, to to redo their picture, to, to, to create a new picture so that other people have something to look at Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's so important and I think that's you know. If anybody is wondering what our heart is for doing this podcast, I think it's exactly that. Yes, like I think that we realized how much we had to go through in order to get to a level where we felt like we were contributing, where we were in purpose, where we were good leaders, and I think that this naturally arose when we both took leadership positions and we were like okay, you know it's a lot of inner work to become a leader. People who just want leadership positions for the notoriety or for the status are because you really want to be seen when your heart is to serve and to help people overcome. My heart is honestly and I tell all the young people I work with I want you to get it quicker than I did. I went through my 20s struggling. It doesn't have to be that way. You can be free in your 20s, you ain't got to wait to your 30s.
Speaker 2:We can redefine what it means to be in your 20s. We can redefine what it means to be a young adult leader. We can redefine that. But that doesn't happen unless people the older, millennials, the middle adults, unless we look back and we new generation, all it all. They're anxious and nervous and you know all these mental health things and they don't know how to push through and they don't have this and they don't have that and I struggle with that because it's like one. How do we contribute to them not having what they need to be able to persevere? How do we? How do what? What atmosphere did we set? Because they weren't setting the atmosphere.
Speaker 2:My greatest fear is that we will have a generation that will shut out the voices of the older generations and if we don't, the beauty of our society progressing forward, especially the kingdom of God, the kingdom of God does not progress forward without people passing down the right things, which is why, in the wilderness, right God was like if I leave y'all in the wilderness to keep talking all that junk about the giants and how you know, we all going to die.
Speaker 2:If we go over there, y'all will feed that to the next generation and I won't have a generation that will be able to go and possess it, and I won't have a generation that will be able to go and possess it, and so it is so important to me that we Ruth, abigail, me, all of the middle adults who listen to this conversation you have a position, you have a place, you have some sort of impact with people where we can pass down what we've learned, so that victory and success and that spirit of freedom can be caught earlier. They don't have to wait as long as we did.
Speaker 1:Well, and I love that you said that, and I think that part of the not waiting as long is opening up the door sooner for them. I lead a very young team. Most of them are below 25, certainly below 27. I only have one team member who is 30 plus and I have had to be. I have been challenged by. We had a couple of meetings and I realized I caught to catch myself and so this was hard. I didn't even realize I was going in this direction, but I'm so glad I, I, I, I think I have um, or I've done my best to um, embolden my team to speak to me, um, in a way that I need to be spoken to, in other words, to manage up if you will, which is a skill that I believe we need to embolden younger leaders and younger people to do.
Speaker 1:You don't have it all together. You don't know. Just because you're the leader, you're the boss, you're the one who signs the checks, whatever. Whatever that looks like for you, it doesn't mean you know everything, and it doesn't mean you can't be taught and so, but. But also, we don't like most young, younger people are not going to naturally feel like they can speak to you that way, so you have to give them permission on a regular basis to create a culture that says I want to be managed up, ok so we were in a meeting and we were talking about our annual spring concert and we were talking about location.
Speaker 1:And so I, since we've been doing the spring concert, my biggest thing about it was I wanted to be in the neighborhood, I wanted to be our biggest production and the best thing that we do to be the accessible to the people that we are, we are, we are here for and that are closest to us. We could do it anywhere, we could go anywhere, but I was like especially family of, of a lot of the young people that will be a part of it. A lot of them may not be able to get transportation as far out or have transportation issues, and I don't want that to be a barrier. So let's make it within the community. And so we were talking about that and, quite frankly, the truth of the matter is we have our productions have really kind of exceeded the locations that are within our space. That's just the truth. And so you know they, on one hand, they hear me saying we want excellence, high quality. On the other hand, they hear you say, well, we'd want to do it within the community.
Speaker 1:And so at some point, um, one of them said, well, I think that we need better, we need a better space in order to have that high quality, excellence production. And I was like, okay, well, let's find it. It's like I mean, you're really limiting us by giving us a radius, because either we get go kind of like the way we've done it in the past, like you know, church auditoriums and school auditoriums which is fine, it's not nothing bad, nothing wrong with that but if we want to step our game up, we're going to have to have a different facility, or we pay a fortune for something downtown that we can't afford, right? So that's kind of our, that's where we are, that's the, that's our reality. And so she said I understand that you know, we want we, we need to to to be community focused and we want to give um, uh, we want to do something meaningful and big for for the community that we sit in and not just always go out and do stuff because most of our performances are out, um. And so she said, well, why don't we just, why don't we focus our Christmas caroling, which traditionally has been out of the community, why don't we focus that in the community and pour our energy into that and do our spring concert at different locations and my initial reaction was not I know what we do, and I had to really take a step back because that was not.
Speaker 1:That had not been the norm we'd set right For how we do it and and how how we engage deeply and intentionally the, the immediate community in which we sit. Our norm for doing that had been the spring concert. But what they were telling me was we're here, you're giving us this opportunity, you're giving us this responsibility and we are telling you we need a different location. I, in that moment, have to release my norm and for me, double, not just my norm, my idea, which is a whole nother thing. Like I had to release that. It is not the season for your, your idea. You're outside of that seat. Younger people are in it and they don't. I don't need them to earn their stripes and be here for two or three years for they make changes, cause that's the problem. To your point, we want, we, you know, the traditional way is you kind of earn your. You gotta be be here so long in order to have a voice.
Speaker 2:Dah, dah dah, dah, dah.
Speaker 1:But who's going to learn anything faster if you don't give them the opportunity to actually implement stuff faster and so that? So, like that's the difference, right. So we have to, we have to be willing to shift that and I, I found, was like dang, I never want to be somebody who is well, that's what that? You know, this is what we used to do, or this is what we normally do, or this is our, this is the way we do it, right? I know I've always said I never want to be that leader, and in that moment I find myself as being that leader, and so I'm grateful again that the culture has been set to like nah, like we gonna keep fighting for this, right.
Speaker 1:And they did, and now it's like okay, cool, my only thing, the only thing I need is a plan. I'm willing to do it. I need a plan, and that was our compromise, so we had to come to an agreement. I'm willing to make a change If you're willing to give me a plan on how we're going to do it, because this there is one piece of this. It's non-negotiable. The community piece is non-negotiable. However, if there's a different way to get there, I'm open to it, and it came out in a conversation based in a culture that's been set to say I give you, I am emboldening you to lead now, not when I think one of something that is very, very dangerous.
Speaker 2:Something that is very, very dangerous is leadership that happens in a vacuum, oh God, you know, like the leadership that says I went on a retreat by myself, oh Lord, I created a plan and a vision for what I believe you all could do, or even I went with the people who are higher than me and I had a conversation with them, and now I am coming down, I'm walking down and I'm telling you the plan, and I don't want to hear any feedback and I don't want to hear any questions. I want you to do what I say. Right, and I'm going to say this gently because I believe it, but everybody may not be ready to believe it but that style of dictator leadership, let me tell you something In these workplaces, with these young adults who will quit, on you in a split second.
Speaker 1:It is not, boy, it ain't going to work it ain't going to work.
Speaker 2:Now, you know I used to teach and I remember I had a class one day and you know I had an afternoon class. So like I had students who were either coming from work or they were coming to my class and then they were going to work afterwards. So I had a student. She would come to class in her work uniform every day. One week she was working at Bojangles so she had a Bojangles uniform on. Next week she come in. She got on a Krispy Kreme uniform.
Speaker 1:I'm like, yeah, what happened at Bojangles she like them.
Speaker 2:People aren't acting right, so I left Next week. All right, she come in with a Bath Body Works shirt on. I'm like, okay, girl, when did you start working at Bath Body Works? She's like girl, krispy Kreme acted up, so I left. I know live. This girl had at least seven jobs within three months.
Speaker 2:Like this girl was like I'm not, finna, take none of your junk, right? If I walk in the space and y'all not acting right, I'm going to hop to the next one. And while we might be thinking that like, oh okay, she can do that on that level, she ain't going to do it on that, yes, they will. Oh, they absolutely will. Yes, they will Get up in there doing that. You know, y'all going to do as I say and I don't want to hear no questions or no feedback. This generation be like God what? And I'm gone and I'm going to go start my own thing. And I think that we don't, we don't realize that the young people now they are very, very much emboldened to go do their own thing.
Speaker 1:They're just not.
Speaker 2:They're not as equipped and they don't even really see the necessity of that. Nope, they're like I don't need. I don't need to be equipped, I'm gonna go out here and make a thing.
Speaker 1:I'll figure it out.
Speaker 2:That's right it is much more valuable if we create spaces where, again, there is this we're not siloed from them, but there is this communication that's circular. Right, where we can, I can manage you and you can give suggestions and I can come back and give support and you can give you know, you can give feedback and I can institute policy and procedures that help you and support you. Right it it? There needs to be some mutuality here. They are begging for mutuality and you want to give them this.
Speaker 2:I'm the boss talk and it ain't going to work. And who's going to suffer more? You who need? You don't just need team, you need a good team. Yeah, you need people who are bought into the ideas and the mission and vision of your company, of your program, of your project. Right, you need people who are bought in. And if you think you're going to be able to just keep replacing people, you're going to be sadly mistaken. And I think one of my greatest fears, that I feel like I'm always trying to work, that I'm like one day, one of these children that I've impacted are going to write a book. You know, I want to be in. I want, I want to be in the acknowledgements and thank yous.
Speaker 2:And now I don't want to be the chapter. You want to be a chapter. A difficult work season.
Speaker 1:No, but that's no, that's real man, I mean, cause they gonna tell it all, Cause they gonna tell it all.
Speaker 1:And you know, one of the things that I think this is so key and and and the norm.
Speaker 1:So for so many young, for so many of the younger generation especially, probably, if you're well, if you're, if you're in school, if you've been in school for the last five years, you have lived a lot of your young life in in uncertainty, with your normal being shifted over and over and over again.
Speaker 1:And here's the here's the upside to that and what I think we have to begin to nurture that that adaptation for change is something that has been built in them, that has not been built as strongly in other generations. That, if you nurture that on your team, not just even in the workplace, but in your family, um, as your, as in friend groups in different areas, like that is that is a trait that we need in our lives because, again, the most consistent thing about this life has changed and we have a generation who can lead the charge and how to change. Well, but if you don't give them that opportunity, if you don't step back and say you're ready to lead in this now because you already have more experience and your norms being shifted more than I do, even in the last five years.
Speaker 1:So, out of your control. There's nothing I could do. I didn't. I didn't, you know. They said we were going to have a problem. We didn't have a problem. My graduation was supposed to be in person. Now it's online. I had online school for two years. Now I'm back in person. I you know, like it's just all these different things that you had to adapt to.
Speaker 1:And I think that's also why they're so comfortable. Just by no problem, I'm cool, I'm gone because I know how to change. I'm not fit to just stay in something I don't want to be in, because my life as an adolescent and as a young adult has already been. I'm in these cycles of change and so I'm okay with it, and I think it's an asset that we, that we miss when we demand that you do it like how we do it, that you get it how we get it, that you that you wait how we waited, that's not.
Speaker 1:And so again, the we live in a different season of normal. That is no longer normal. Normal is no longer, you know, three years and an evaluation and then a raise and then a promotion. Change, yeah, promotion might come in six months and and and you have to be open to that you have to be open to shifting the culture of what is what, what is what is possible. So I love that you said that. I think it's. I think it's so key man and, like we, we have got to be champions of the younger generation in that, like we really need to, and you know that really is where my heart is.
Speaker 2:I want to throw this other point out about normalcy, and when you think about you know, like what you learned around that kitchen table or what you learned about from your home of origin, your family of origin is that normal, came with a set of rules that you learned to guide your life by right, and your family had rules, right. Some of them were spoken, some of them went unspoken, but they are rules that you learn of. What communication looks like, what leadership looks like, right, you learned that in your home. Right. You learned what partnership did or did not look like. Right. You learned what speaking your truth, you know, looked like. You learned that from your home. Right, and so a lot of those rules right.
Speaker 2:When I was just recently in my healing course, right, they talked about those rules and one of the ones that I think gets everybody, especially if you come from a certain type of household right, is that, like we were taught, like don't talk about it, right. Like I remember you know, like you pull up to somebody's house, you had a little conversation where you got the car, all right, we're gone in our house, all right.
Speaker 2:I don't want to hear you around talking about. You know anybody who works in the elementary school, especially elementary. You know that business is getting told in them schools because them kids come and tell all your business right. But there was a don't talk rule. It was a don't stir the pot rule, right. And there are things that you learn that you are now carrying into your workplace as a leader, right. So when people start talking, it makes you nervous because it's breaking one of your rules. That's good, that is a rule that you have bought into that workplace and you want everyone to abide by the rules that you learned at your kitchen table. And one that's not fair. And two, you are putting a lid on what your team is able to do because you are making them abide by rules that honestly kept you bound.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, and so you have to be intentional about saying how do I redefine the space so that it is a space that is not bound by the same things that groomed me, but how do I redefine the space so it's a space where I can cultivate what's in other people and bring out of them what needs to come out, and so that we can succeed and overcome as a team. Right, and you have to be careful about that, and that's not to say, and I think, one last caveat and then I think we're probably going to be close to finish but one last caveat this is not none of this conversation is to say that you didn't grow up with really valuable things. Yeah, a lot of good seed wasn't sown into your ground. I could go on and on and on about how good my mama is.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, Ruth Abigail can go on and on and on about her parents Right? This is not to say that we did not all grow up having learned a great deal of character and a great deal of virtue and a great deal of just of good life lessons that we now need to impart in the workplace. But if you find that you have gotten to a place where you feel stuck, or you feel like you don't know how to go forward, or you feel like you don't have enough clarity to make good decisions, it is probably because it's time for a new normal.
Speaker 1:I think that that is absolutely right. And you know, we've been talking about the workplace, but again, let's just we're talking about every part of your life Like that is. And let's just we're talking about every part of your life Like that is. You know, last few minutes has been about the workplace, but, honestly, I believe that your personal life and your professional life cannot really be separated, and so if you learn how to embrace the newness of normality, like a new normal mindset of new normal in your personal space, it will translate into your professional space and make you more valuable to your team. Um, and so, uh, I was.
Speaker 1:I was just looking this up. Um, so uh, there's a, a woman, who was a giant in education. Her name is rita pearson and she and she wrote several books, but she has a talk on her and it's just reminding me of this on YouTube, called my Mama Said and the whole, and I listened to this years ago. It's been a while, but essentially the premise of it is how do you handle in school, like when the student comes, and it's like you know, um, you, you fights in school.
Speaker 1:let's, this is her example, right so johnny comes up, johnny, and and derrick, and uh, they, they getting into it. And johnny, he's, he's, he's. You know, don't touch me, did it? You getting into it? And and and uh, and derrick punches him and johnny punches him back, starts going off on derrick, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
Speaker 1:Teacher comes, say john, need nothing, that's supposed to. But my mama said right. My mama said and and it's like how do you, how do you help shift that? But my mama said this. So my mama said this. My mama said if somebody touched me, I'm supposed to hit them, right, my daddy said it's me, ty and I have just we've recently had this conversation because there's a little bully, there's a little potential bully, right, and you know, and it's like hey, hey man, hey man, defend yourself.
Speaker 1:But but but, to your point, environments, right. So at school, it's, it's, it's like okay, so am I supposed to what? So you're telling me I can't do this at school, but my mama said I can, but you're telling me I can't, and I don't really know what to do with that, right, and so I think that again, the, the um, the practice of understanding, um, how you adapt to uh norms in, in, in, in different environments and different seasons. It is so important to be able to do that because you won't be able to define normal everywhere you go. For you to your point, what you said, quita right like. I'm coming in with this idea and I'm trying to impose it on you.
Speaker 1:Well, you don't always have the option to do that so now the question is well, am I just going to opt out and be like forget it, like I don't want be here, or are you going to learn how to adapt to a new normal and not be so um, so uh stuck or that's not the word I'm looking for, though Uh, so attached to what it is that you grew up with, that, what you do. You have defined truth as what your experience has taught you with your parents have taught you what your experience has taught you, what your parents have taught you, what your community has taught you, and be stubborn and keep yourself stuck because you refuse to accept a new way, right?
Speaker 2:Listen.
Speaker 1:And this is what we don't want. This is what we don't want.
Speaker 2:Listen. No, I think there's a lot of things, there are a lot of things that can keep you stuck. There are a lot of, there are, there are a lot of mindsets that, if we don't make it our mission to overcome some of the things that you've been holding on to, and you have to be able to identify what is it for you? Is it fear? Is it disbelief, right? Is it? Is it? And when we say fear because fear is the, you know, everybody says fear. Everybody has a fear that is tied to something. Are you afraid of people's opinions? Are you afraid of failure? Are you afraid of not having enough Right? You have to be able to identify that stuff and I think that what's so important.
Speaker 2:I always want to preach the good stuff. I always want to be the one that says you about to get it, it's about to happen, we about to go, go, go, go, go right. But sometimes you have to preach the hard stuff, and just because it's hard doesn't mean it's not good. It may be hard to overcome your fear and overcome some of those things that you have convinced yourself is normal and it's right. Just because it's normal, don't make it right Right. It might be hard to convince yourself against those things, but it's going to be good in the end and I think we have to do the work, we have to do the hard work so that we can get to the great things, and we have to do the hard work so that we can get to the great, the great things and um, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I know 2025 has started off a little different, right, but I hope that we have encouraged a great sense of hope so that when we, when we get to the things that are hard, you're holding on to enough hope so that you can endure because you know you're going to somewhere that's better, right, you're literally you've already seen like the promise is there. Yeah, they were holding it in their hands. Y'all. Don't let the fact that there are giants in the land keep you from going in and possessing what God already said you can have.
Speaker 1:Amen, thank you, that was good, queda I, and I'm glad you mentioned cause we're going to be talking about some some more difficult topics potentially, and I think I hope you guys stay tuned for that, because I think they're important for us to learn how to navigate through with honoring where we came from, but being brave enough to move forward past it, knowing that freedom is new territory and you just cannot be so attached to your past. And what was that?
Speaker 1:you're unwilling to embrace what's new and what can be and what can be. And that's what freedom looks like for a lot of us, because, again, we grew up with broken people and broken places and that's just for everyone, because we're all human and so the levels of freedom that are available to us won't it can't, the level of freedom that are available to us are not going to be achieved by some of the things that a broken place taught us. We have to accept that. That's what this series is all about. I think we're done. Are we done? We're done.
Speaker 2:Y'all didn't hear it in the beginning. We just want to reiterate All right, tell a friend to tell a friend, like, share and subscribe If he said something that really hit with you. We love communicating with y'all about the podcast, about ways it's impacted your life, about things you're going to do differently. Hit us in the chat, hit us in the DMs. We love to have conversations with you guys and continue, continue to talk and grow and move forward.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, all right. So that is it, y'all. We will see y'all next week and until then, let's keep unlearning together so that we can experience more freedom, peace. Thank you once again for listening to the Unlearned Podcast. We would love to hear your comments and your feedback about the episode. Feel free to follow us on Facebook and Instagram and to let us know what you think. We're looking forward to the next time when we are able to unlearn together to move forward towards freedom. See you then.
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