The UnlearnT Podcast
The UnlearnT Podcast is designed to help you gain the courage to change your mind about things you never thought you would change your mind about. Our hope is that you will begin to move towards a life of freedom after hearing stories from individuals who have chosen to unlearn some things in their lives.
The UnlearnT Podcast
UnLearning Parenting: The Hard Truths of Blended Families
Eric Ballentine, Executive Director of Streets Ministries in Memphis, shares his journey through fatherhood, marriage, and ministry as someone who "jumped off the porch" at age 12 before finding his faith at 25. His powerful story reveals how his past experiences shaped his approach to raising children in a blended family and the lessons he learned about authentic manhood along the way.
• Born and raised in South Memphis, youngest of seven siblings with an extended family that includes 21 grandchildren and 23 great-grandchildren
• Developed a blended family when he married at 25, with his wife bringing a biological daughter and Eric having a son from a previous relationship
• Had to unlearn toxic masculinity and what he thought was "authentic manhood" after accepting Christ
• Found himself becoming "super dad" to many youth in ministry while potentially missing quality time with his own children
• Realized he was projecting his own childhood trauma onto his blended family dynamic, watching closely how his wife treated his biological son
• Experienced reconciliation with his oldest son after a period of estrangement, learning that sometimes being right doesn't matter if you lose the relationship
• Offers practical advice for navigating blended families including not forcing relationships and preventing children from speaking negatively about their other parent
Hello everyone and welcome to the Unlearned Podcast. I'm your host, ruth Abigail Smith, and you have stumbled upon a podcast that is here to help you gain the courage to change your mind, and today we have the privilege of speaking with genuinely one of my favorite people. I don't call everybody this, but this man truly is my big brother and I'm so grateful for him. If you are listening from Memphis, you probably know who he is. You certainly know where he works. He is the executive director of Streets Ministries and he has been doing ministry in Memphis for quite some time, born and raised. He's going to tell you all that himself and talk a little bit about who he is, but this man's name is Eric Ballantyne. Mr Ballantyne, welcome to the Unlearned Podcast.
Speaker 2:Ruth Abigail, how are you today?
Speaker 1:I'm great man it's good to be with you Likewise. Yeah, this is exciting.
Speaker 2:This is truly my sister.
Speaker 1:I mean truly, we siblings for real.
Speaker 2:For real.
Speaker 1:I mean we behave like siblings, Absolutely. So just be warned, Be forewarned. We didn't prepare too much for this Right. We didn't want to, so this is going to be a great conversation. I'm particularly excited about this conversation because, Eric, you're an executive director of a long-lasting that's not the word I'm looking for a very prominent nonprofit in the city, and so you speak all the time. I mean, you speak about ministry and you speak about young people and you do that right. So if you're in Memphis and local, you've probably heard him or you've heard something he said. He's done music, so his voice is not unknown to the city. But what I'm excited about today is we're going to dig into some stuff he doesn't normally talk about.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:We're going to dig we're going to dig, and I'm excited because we get to talk to Eric the man, not Eric the director, right, and I like that. And so I want us to just start with. I'd love just for you to introduce yourself to the people, tell them what it is that's interesting about you, where you grew up, a little bit of your story, how in the world you got to this place, and then we'll just dig a little bit.
Speaker 2:All right, Thanks again. Story how in the world you got to this place, and then we'll just dig a little bit. All right, Thanks again. So honored to be here on the Unlearned podcast tonight and just to share a little bit of who I am and hopefully we can glean from each other tonight. I'm from Memphis, a native Memphian born and raised here. As of a week or so ago, I've been here 46 years.
Speaker 1:Come on 46.
Speaker 2:So that's my entire life right and I love Memphis. Born and raised in the south part of Memphis, affectionately known as South. Memphis South Memphis sure, and youngest of seven, youngest of seven. My mom, beautiful mom, now is 76. And her baby boy is 46. It's weird, so weird, but she's beautiful as ever, healthy, doing fine, and all of my siblings are still here in town.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:And just give you the roots of that. My mama has seven children, 21 grandchildren and 23 great-grands.
Speaker 1:And they're all here. No, they're everywhere oh they're everywhere, okay, okay, all over the world.
Speaker 2:Wow Ireland somewhere. But no yeah, but, yeah, the grands and the great-grands a nice portion of them are here, Wow, but they're like scattered all over the United States, but all of my siblings are here in the city. So, yeah, been married to my lovely wife, barbara now for 20 years. Yes, 20 years of marriage going on 40, right, and 20 years of being happily married and we have three children. So, yeah, okay, yeah, cool man, that's me in a nutshell.
Speaker 1:I love it, I love it, I love it, I yeah, okay, yeah, cool man.
Speaker 2:That's me in a nutshell.
Speaker 1:I love it, I love it, I love it, I love it. So all right. So you're married, have three children. How old were you when you got married? Well, you said 20 years. I was 20. I should do math.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was 25 when.
Speaker 1:I got married, 25 when you got married, 25 when you got married, and so so I'm going on 21.
Speaker 1:So, of course, Right, okay, yeah, 21 years, okay. So yeah, because this is kind of leading us into where we want to go right, it's just kind of learning a little bit about who you are, who you have been as a husband, as a father, as a man out here in these Memphis streets doing your life, right. So tell us, just tell us, a little bit of that experience, right, kind of start where you want to start with that. Tell us a little bit.
Speaker 2:Okay, I guess more about my upbringing, about your upbringing. Or marriage more so.
Speaker 1:Yeah about your upbringing, about my upbringing, about your upbringing About marriage. More so, yeah about your upbringing. So share with us a little bit about who Eric was as a young man, husband, father.
Speaker 2:Okay, got you. Okay. Well, for me I mentioned at the age of 25 is when I got married, and for some people they're like that's young, that's's young, that's so young. But I felt old at 25 because I literally jumped off the porch pretty early, when I was about 12-ish or 13,. I started doing big boy things and got involved in a lot of the streets, gangs, drugs, stuff like that.
Speaker 2:So by the time I was 16, you know, I thought I was grown. You know what I'm saying. So at 25, I was OG to me, you know, and to some others, you know, like man, you know, he'd been there, done that already, and so I was ready to settle down by that time. Her and I had been dating for at that time, right at three years, and she entered into the relationship with a biological daughter Okay, at that time was four years old, okay, and I had a biological son, okay, who was three months. Oh, wow, yeah, wow, when we, you know, like real talk, when we met and I was living fast, yeah, and then we had a son together, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Wow, right Okay. Yeah, all right, so let's talk about that. So both of you had children going into the marriage. Going into the marriage or the relationship?
Speaker 2:Well, coming into the relationship, Coming into the relationship.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you both had children coming into the relationship and then you had a child together. So talk about a little bit that experience navigating, blending a family.
Speaker 2:I had no idea. She had no idea. Yeah, we just you know we were in love, right, yeah, and all we know is you know we love each other. And I really didn't know anything about being a father, being a parent. I grew up pretty much in a single-parent home. Youngest of seven, my mom thought it would be better for me to live with my grandparents, so I was technically raised primarily by my grandmother. My grandfather died in a car accident when I was six, so I stayed with my grandmother. So I was slick the only child for a second there. I could put my Kool-Aid in the refrigerator and nobody drink it right, Sure, sure.
Speaker 2:But I was the only kid for a minute, and then my grandmother was just very kind, loving, so she adopted another family.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:There was another family in the community and this lady was very ill, like stage four cancer, and her children had been in the system. Some and her and my grandma had become friends and she was like, hey, I'm dying, become friends. And she was like, hey, you know I'm dying and but I want my kids to stay together.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:You know, will you promise me that you'll keep my family? My grandma said yes, so she took her four kids into our house and they became my siblings. Wow, so my family was blended all around, you know, and? And the lady was white and the kid's father was African-American.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So yeah, wait a minute, all right so all right, so there's a lot going on. Right, yeah, right.
Speaker 1:So how old were you when they moved in?
Speaker 2:I'm not mistaken, I had to be around 10.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:I would say around 9 or 10. Okay, and they were much older than me, you know well. Yeah, back then it seemed like they were grown, they were like 16.
Speaker 1:Oh, they were really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 16, 15, 16. Okay, One was maybe 20. Oh, 16. One was maybe 20. Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:And they were very well known in the community. One of them, particularly the one that I wanted to be just like Chris, was like man. He was that winsome guy was like man, he was that winsome guy. What's funny is in the hood you're super light-skinned, with good hair. You're a nickname, white boy. So Chris was white boy and everybody loved Chris. Everybody loved white boy.
Speaker 2:White boy, chris, that's his name. Everybody knew him as that and he was just one of those guys who was charismatic, loving, funny. But he was feared. He was like man. He just had this anger and this rage from his experiences as a child and even trying to process the death of his mom and the fact that his dad was not in his life and that he had to go through this system. You know all of the porter leaves, the tall trees, secs, dogwoods, any system you can think of, fostering, whatever. He went through a lot of that and he had a lot of rage and bitterness, but he was the one that I loved the most and I kind of wanted to be like him. So when I jumped off that porch, I jumped off the porch with intentions of becoming him. You know, just being honest.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's good. So your experience is really you've got a blended experience from a lot of different angles.
Speaker 2:Right, right.
Speaker 1:And all right. So I want to talk a little bit more about jumping off the porch, because I think that that is a well, that's key to your story, right, right. And I love how you kind of said in the beginning 25 for you was like- Retired Right, you were retired right yeah. So tell me if I'm wrong. Like your perspective on life may have been a little bit more, would you call it more mature than most 25-year-olds because of your experience, or is that accurate?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's accurate. Okay, again, by 25, I had done more than most and I thought what's weird is, at 25, for me, all of the things I had been involved in and had experienced, I thought I was this guy, I thought this was my identity, what I saw in my brother Right, I wanted to be that and I thought that was authentic manhood, I guess I can say, and it was not until I accepted Christ at 25 and started surrounding myself around some men who were imitating Christ that I really found out that, hey, I have no idea what I'm doing here and I had to kind of relearn, unlearn what I thought was authentic manhood and then learn what true manhood would. At the same time, while I'm trying to figure out this parenting thing and being a husband right, wow, right, because all I had was my experiences, what I've seen, and my dad I lost him in 2014. Great man, we had a great relationship, but early on and I'm an open book, so the way I was conceived was out of wedlock, you know, my dad was married and stepped out. Yeah, and here I am right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and as a kid, you don't know that. As a kid, all you know is, hey, that's dad, that's mom Right. Why can't I go to that house, right, right, that's dad, that's mom Right. Why can't I go to that house, right, right. So some of those childhood experiences, you know, when I started to mature and go through my adolescence or whatever, some of those things were brought to my attention, right, like, oh, this happened, oh, that's why I couldn't go here, oh, that's why that lady looked at me like that, and so all that bitterness that I told you my brother, had I had my adopted brother, had I began to have that bitterness toward my biological father, yeah, even toward my grandmother who raised me, why you didn't tell me, you know just so many other things that just created somewhat of a monster. I guess I can say, yeah, because what you would do is you'd take it out on anybody. You can right your frustration, so yeah.
Speaker 1:So you well, here's the thing, right, you were challenged to emulate something that you hadn't been practicing. Pretty quickly, right, right, and you had to work through all of this stuff to get to this point to you know, to, to, to function as a man, right, and the, the way that you had learned, like you said, manhood was different than how you had been introduced to it in your old age of 25.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Um and so how, how did that that unlearning manhood process look? What? What were some examples of what that looked like?
Speaker 2:Oh, man, one thing was learning how to control your emotions, learning conflict resolution, you know, because you used to handle this stuff this way Right, this way Right. But when you started to really learn about true, authentic man, biblical man, who's a, you know, real man? Fight on the knees. You know, we don't take it to our, you know, to the fist, but for me I had to kind of get over the anger stuff, work some stuff out with myself. But, mind you, I'm trying to do all of this.
Speaker 2:So all of my old ways of getting money, my old ways of handling my disputes, yep, all ways of everything, how I navigated right, matriculated through the era of my life in that I'm still trying to figure out how to be a parent, and that was the piece for me. So I probably made a ton of mistakes. I did the best I could, but I started to model myself. But the transition for me was watching again, men of God that I looked up to. I watched how they handled their wives, how they treated them with class and respect, how they nurtured their kids, their relationship. I kind of watched how they disciplined their children.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because I didn't want to again my childhood experiences to totally influence how I handled my children. If that makes sense, correct, there were some great elements of it, I think. One thing I can say I hope I'm not getting ahead here but one thing with my dad. Again, he was not there in the house with me, but I think about it. I saw him two days a week. He bought all my school stuff. He was very loving to me. I just couldn't go to his house and I got something to say about that later on when you're talking about bleeding the families. But I couldn't go to his house because his wife didn't accept me. She knew about me but she didn't accept me. And so he told me in his latter years we were talking. One day he said son, he said man, I made a lot of mistakes. He said, but one thing I didn't do, I didn't deny you, and I had to agree with him with that, because I mean all throughout my childhood I had a dad. I knew I had a dad. I didn't know the dad's supposed to be in the house, I just knew, hey, he'd take care of me, he'd come over here. He even disciplined me and that's something that I learned from him about discipline.
Speaker 2:People have different views on spanking your kid. Or do you put him in the corner time out, or whatever. I got spankings, but I didn't get beatings. I got spankings. My dad was a truck driver, so he's in and out of town or whatever and I'm just a boy, I'm trying to set the big wheel on fire. I'm just crazy. So my grandmother would tell my dad and I'm like, oh Lord, he coming.
Speaker 2:So when he would pull up in the truck, I'm like, oh, okay, but he would come in spend quality time with my grandmother. Then he would call me in, he would discuss the situation with me in front of my grandmother, calmly, never raise his voice, and I was super intimidated because it was my dad, but I wasn't afraid he's going to kill me right now. I knew I was in trouble, but even before he would spank me, he would sit down and explain to me why Wow, you can't do this, and that's something that I'll never forget. So I was like, okay, in this parenting thing, I know my kid's going to do some crazy stuff, yeah, and there may be some times where I may have to discipline them like that, but I want to do it like he did. You know what I mean, so that was a good takeaway. So that's one man that I watched and learned some things from, and then my pastor and other people that I had an opportunity to do.
Speaker 1:That's beautiful. That's a beautiful picture of fatherhood. You said something you know that you could never go to him Right, Right, Right to him.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Right, right. So so this and and so there was a, so I guess the a difference right of fatherhood being the fatherhood you experienced, of, like you said, two days a week versus seven days a week.
Speaker 2:Right In the home Right.
Speaker 1:Right there with you Are there some immediate differences that you saw as a father, that you realized was a different experience you had as a kid.
Speaker 2:Right, I guess, comically. First I'd say, get on your nerves. I see why. I see why you let me come to you. No, I'm just joking. But no, my kids had, all three of them had.
Speaker 2:That I longed for was being able to touch your father. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, I remember sitting there as a kid, like what's my daddy number? You know, call him. And nobody would ever call him. And you know, later on you're like man. I was traumatized by that because I wanted to talk to my daddy, I want to wrestle with my daddy, or whatever, right, because I couldn't do that with my grandfather anymore. He was gone and so I had no man that I could physically touch to get that appropriate affection from right. And so my children had that every night, every, you know, whenever I worked all the time. So when I get home, man, they jumping on your neck, your back, wrestling, tickling. It's just, and again that goes to with Barbara and I when we decided to become one again. She's bringing her biological daughter into picture and I have a biological son who does not live in the house, right?
Speaker 2:yeah so that's a blended family that we now have, and nobody has taught us how to manage that thing.
Speaker 1:So um can I ask you this sure, sure what, how was like? How, what kind of conversations did you and Barbara have? Or didn't have that? Maybe you look back and be like, hey, we should have talked about this Right, that's it. You know what I mean. Yeah, when it comes to handling parenting each other's children, Right.
Speaker 2:I think, man, we should have had the conversations. We did the best we could. Yeah, we both were loving people. I was not a tyrant in the house or never been a violent guy, abusive guy verbally, or none of that. No cursing around my kids, none of that stuff. So I wasn't that type of guy, none of that, you know. No cursing around my kids, none of that stuff. So I wasn't that type of guy. But I was probably more legalistic than anything, like when I first accepted Christ, man, you know, I was like not to do nothing, you know, and I wish I had been a bit more open to allowing them to make some mistakes. Wow, yeah, I hope I'm not getting ahead, but that's what I feel Like. I feel like I was trying so hard to protect them from becoming me that I may have stopped them from becoming them, if that makes sense, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:We're going to let that sit for just a second. That's good. Yeah, you said you didn't want them to become you, right? So you may, in the process, have stopped them from becoming them, right, right, wow.
Speaker 2:You know, but doing it out of love and trying to protect them.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like I felt like it was my responsibility, to which it is, you know, but I was so overbearing with protecting them, yeah, and I should have let them learn a little bit more by experience. Now you know I'm mature Now. My kids are grown and gone. Barbara and I empty nesters, have been empty nesters now for about one or four years and I look back and they're grown. I'm like man, I wish I had it. This different, that different you know what were.
Speaker 1:so you say, not becoming like you.
Speaker 2:So what were you afraid of that? I think the biggest thing off top, just coming from where I come from, I didn't want the streets to get them. Yeah, you know, I didn't want our daughter to be treated the way I may have treated young ladies in my ignorance, right, or how I've seen young ladies be treated, right. So I felt like I got to protect her. Yeah, no, you can't go here. You can't go there, you can't do this. You know, you can't listen to this, you can't do that. And again, that was just legalistic for real. But I tried the approach of explaining it too, but still, at the end of the day, it was zero understanding, like no, this is it Like, this, is it what I say goes?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think I would have been if I could go back. This is hindsight, it's 2020, but if I could go back, I would be more open to listening to why they want to do this or give them a bigger voice. So how has that impacted your relationships with them as adults?
Speaker 2:Right, wow. I think one thing my children always knew was that I love them and they knew that they could come to me and talk about it. That was a good thing. Me working in youth ministry was sweet, but at the same time it was deceptive, because me being the youth leader, youth pastor, I'm always doing the crazy, creative stuff with the youth. So I was like super dad to so many other kids, like everybody want to be around, miss, a Right man, let's go. So my house was the spot Wow. So we got all the youth want to come hang at my house. Parents trust us, know they're with us, they're safe. We're doing the lock-ins, we're doing the camps. We're doing the lock-ins, we're doing the camps, we're doing whatever campfires, we're just doing everything together. And my kids loved it because they got the super cool dad who all the kids want to be around, who make everybody smile.
Speaker 2:But I worked so much to provide for them and I'm volunteering, doing all of this stuff here at the church and I think I lost out on you know, like the love languages the quality time. I think I missed out on. They may not say this, but I think that I missed out on some real quality time with them because it was always so crowded. You know, either we're at church, some youth function and then me, being a Christian rapper at that time, traveling, doing that. I tried to always include my family but I was like they got me but everybody got me. So I would rethink how I did that and probably fall back a little bit and spend some more intentional time with them Instead of dragging them all around.
Speaker 1:You saying a lot and I this is really because I think a lot, of, a lot of men. So you went from because I think this is so important and I think the connection here is so important. You went from doing your thing in the streets to being a husband and a father, to adding on to that youth pastor, right, right, and not just a youth pastor, but a really really good one, right.
Speaker 1:I hope I'm saying that I hope, yeah, just knowing who you are. But, like you said, super dad to all the kids right. Yeah, but even in that it's like if somebody looked at your kind of we'll call it manhood resume.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's like man he is killing right there may have lacked the attention with your you know the children that you're stewarding because of the kind of energy put in. Being exactly who it is that you felt God called you to be Right, so that tension is real.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. Again. My wife and my kids probably would say something different, but it's my inner convictions, I know, and I'm like man. I think I missed it in some areas where I could have been a bit more intentional with getting to know each of them individually. It was more like this is what we do. Yeah, we. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Yes, this is what we do, yeah, but maybe she didn't, that wasn't her love language, or her, or that wasn't his love language. You know, like this kid and I would advise any parent out there, especially if you have a blended family get to know your children's love languages. Like one kid, it may be quality time, yeah. The other kid, it may be physical touch, and I use it in my real life, like my son that was in the house. He had dad 24-7 around the clock.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:And so I mean we roustled and the the crazy stuff, but he didn't touch me as much. But my oldest son, when he would come over on weekends, he couldn't keep his hands off me. Wow, I don't care what he said, dad, you know, hit me on the shoulder. He always just, and I didn't recognize that at first and as I started maturing and growing I was like dang, that was me wanting that as a kid with my dad. Wow, he needed that. Right, you know what I'm saying. And he didn't have me all the time. Yeah, so when he did, he going to take advantage of it. He going to take advantage. Just test me to death, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:So can you, can you kind of talk a little bit about? Um, the difference in parenting?
Speaker 2:yeah a child in the home and one who lives away from home that's a tricky one because, uh, a lot of variables, like it depends on the relationship between you, uh, and the other parent, because when you're co-parenting, sometimes that can be smooth and sometimes it can be challenging Absolutely. For me, thankfully, it was pretty smooth. That's good, and I'll tell you why I think it was smooth. First of all, the grace of God. Second of all, I didn't play with her emotions and I talked to a lot of young brothers about that who are in situations where they might have a child that they had from a previous relationship and now you're with somebody else and you're wondering why it's so difficult. You know windows and tires and foolishness.
Speaker 2:You know, many times we kind of want our cake and eat it too, right, and you play with people's emotions like that. So when we decided that we wouldn't be together, we decided we weren't going to be together and I said I'm not going to be cruel to her. She has my son in her stomach and so I want to make sure she's straight. So she wants some grapes? Yeah, three in the morning I'm taking grapes. I'm like you know, I'm going to live with my boy. Okay, I didn't know better, I didn't know, but we had this understanding. Hey, we're not together, no more. But guess what? We got a son, wow. So we got to figure this thing, yeah, and we didn't bet 100.
Speaker 2:We ran into our challenges when you talked about the portion of the child in-house compared to your child that's not in the house. Even when it comes to correcting them as a parent, guilt can kick in and you allow the child outside of the house to get away with murder. Yeah, almost compared. And you're super hard on the ones who are right there and it's not fair. So I may have been a bit extra in the house at times and more lenient with my oldest, because I felt like he couldn't touch me when he wanted to, and so when we do have those opportunities for touches, the touches can't be me fussing. You get what I'm saying?
Speaker 2:I do Right, so yeah.
Speaker 1:So how do you? That's really hard to navigate.
Speaker 2:Very hard to navigate.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's really, really hard.
Speaker 2:I don't think there's an answer to it. I'm pretty sure somebody out there yeah somebody wrote a book. Yeah, but I don't know exactly how we navigated through that. I was learning as I go.
Speaker 1:So this may be and I want to get back to that relationship in just a second, but I just want to kind of pivot this way. If there's something here at this time you were a believer, you were in the church, right. Was there tension between you know your relationships in the church and your relationship with the relationships you had with kids and family and kind of you know your parenting living situation? I mean, maybe there wasn't your parenting living situation, was it? I mean maybe there wasn't.
Speaker 2:But I'm curious when you say the tension between so did you experience.
Speaker 2:You talked about guilt right, and you know was any of that guilt catalyzed by church at all or by other Christians, I would say no, yeah, I would say no, yeah, I would say no. I can say this, and the good thing is this is word to the wise for anybody who decided to do a podcast, and you may talk to your wife first. I talked to my wife in the parking lot. I said look, okay, I'm about to have a real conversation, right, you cool. But my wife I think if anybody would get on me, it would be her about putting everything first.
Speaker 2:And I didn't think I was. I didn't think I was like man, I'm doing the work of the Lord. You know what I'm saying. But I didn't realize that I'm working all day, and now I'm at the church. And if I'm not at the church, I'm at home working on church stuff, doing PowerPoints and putting together curriculums for Bible study and all of this, and I'm excited about it. And I'm thinking she's looking at me like, oh my God, he's doing the work of the Lord. But she's looking at me like, hey, spend some time with me and your kids, yeah, yeah, you know, I thought including my kids in that was exciting for them and they would get with it because I'm dead, but they need it. So I think that the tension would come from there, in-house, not from out-house. You're the hero.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's real.
Speaker 2:Outside the house, right, yeah, and people don't—it takes a very mature person to recognize and say, hey, man, take care of home, we got this, take a break, take a sabbatical and go spend time with your kids. But me, coming from where I come from, man, I just had this zeal to live right, to serve God and I'm thinking, if I'm doing this, I'm happy, so everybody should be happy, right, you know? So it took me about I'll say it took me about my God 10 to 12 years of ministry before I realized I need to slow down. It took that long for me to say man, my kids are really growing up and I'm still dragging them along to do everything that I want to do and I need to invest a little bit more into who they are.
Speaker 1:So with your oldest son, yes, talk a little bit about that relationship. I know that has been it's, um, it's been a journey. Yeah, oh yeah what, what, what has that journey look like? And, um, what are some things that you have had to unlearn as a parent, particularly with your oldest son oh man, uh, eric, oh man, eric Jr, my boy, that's my boy, eric is now 24.
Speaker 2:And again, didn't know what I was doing in the beginning and I started to learn when I got 25, I'm telling you, somewhere in that window, 25 to 27, I was really on some more stuff. Like man, I'm trying to learn all I can so I can invest in my family and all that. But again, I'm learning about working now and you know I had neglected my education, so so many things stacked against me but I was so crazy in believing that, if God be for me, who could be against me? Right? So I'm just zealous and going.
Speaker 2:But as I learned and grew with Eric, I knew one thing he is going to be at my house. Now that's good and bad. Let me tell you why. Okay, it's good because I need to do that as a parent, I need to be in my son's life. But it was bad because I found out years later why I was doing it, the motive behind it.
Speaker 2:It was my own adverse childhood experiences, right as a kid. My dad's wife said no, he is not coming to this house. So I had in my mind nobody would never treat my son like that. So here I am, my crazy self. I have my son at the house because I want him with me, but at the same time, in my mind I'm trying to show my wife that my boy coming here. So I'm walking around with a magnifying glass watching her to see how she's going to treat my boy. So I'm walking around with a magnifying glass watching her to see how she's going to treat my boy, wow. So I say this humorously but if she were to give our biological son a green lollipop and give my son a red, my oldest son a red one, I'm like why are you giving him the red? Try to tell him to stop.
Speaker 2:We're just conjuring up foolishness. Wow, but I didn't know why. But it was my own adverse childhood experiences and I didn't want him to go through what I went through. And it was not even the case. She loved him, just like the rest of our kids, and she had to check me on that years later. Like you know, what are you doing? Yeah, you know, and I'm feeling like I had to protect him, but there's a flip side to that coin. She had the same thing with our daughter.
Speaker 2:She felt like she had to protect her because of her experiences as a child and her past relationship. Yeah, so they had this bond that you know. In reality, I know now that we, as parents, should have been on one accord right first, but she had this bond with our daughter, but I had the same thing. Yeah, my son, yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, that's right.
Speaker 2:And so we had to have to come to Jesus meeting to hey, this is not your daughter, this is not my son, these are our children, yeah, so we got to get on one on one course. So it took some hurdles and you know, along the way, but God did his thing. I'll say, for us, in our marriage, year number 12 or 13 was like the roughest ever. We hit a bump and it was because of the blended family. Wow, we hit a bump that we thought we couldn't overcome and it took a lot. It took some counseling, it took some tears, it took some real conversations, self-realization and all of the above for that to be totally restored to where we say, hey, nah, we're going to keep, we're strong together. Right, you know what I'm saying. So now fast forward. My oldest and I, we hit a bump in the road. Today is actually the one-year anniversary of his brother's murder. His brother was killed. Wow, everybody knew about the young doll situation. Right around that time his brother was killed, and it had nothing to do with that, but he was killed around that time. And so this is the one-year anniversary today of his brother's death.
Speaker 2:But my son went through a real tough period prior to that and I think about it. I did the same thing. As much as I admired and respected my father, I had some things that I felt like he didn't quite get right according to my standards and I cut him off for some years. No reason, he's trying to reach out to me, I just cut him off and I was gone in the streets doing my thing. So my son had his stint and he did the same thing and it took the Lord because I was so upset, and it took the Lord to show me like hey, you did the same thing. So he had this moment where he kind of bagged off for a while. Then he lost his brother in the process. But through that God restored our relationship. So he and I are back. You know, like we never left right and but you said something a few minutes ago about some things that I wish I could go back and do different and learn. I learned with my oldest son.
Speaker 2:We had a conversation during that process of reconciling our relationship and I thought I just knew why he did what he did and I was thinking in my head I'm like he and his feelings, you know. But he shared with me. He said, wasn't the fact that you how did he word it? He said it was not the fact that you didn't agree with me. He said I didn't expect you to agree with the choice that he was about to make. He said but I did expect you to come get me. And when he said that to me, it's like it cut me Because I was like man, I was so bent on being right, but the situation was still wrong.
Speaker 2:Make sense. So for me, if I could go back, I would say man, it's not about who right and who wrong, because if you win the battle but you lose the war, I was 45 at that time. At 45, I had to apologize to my son for not being there for him the way he needed me, not the way you know. I thought I knew what he needed. Again, that comes from you being the adult thinking you know everything.
Speaker 1:So I would have listened more, eric. You're saying so much and I'm trying to. Honestly, I'm sitting here, just I am just sitting here listening at this story and just your journey, and I know a lot of people have experienced probably parts of what you're talking about for sure, from just blended family coming into a marriage, coming into a relationship with kids, having to parent kids in the home, out of the home.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know tension around you, know your marriage relationship after being there for a while and that still being there, like you know, parenting an adult child, particularly one who does have a little bit of a chip on his shoulder. But in all of that you, and almost every story you've told you, have traced it back. You've traced you. You know what I'm saying. You have seen you, you've identified you in the scenario. I want to know what work have you done to get to the place where you're willing to see yourself in life, some of the things that you've seen in your children?
Speaker 2:I tell you what a lot of listening to other people who have been here before, Some of my mentors in their 60s maybe and they're like man, you know, I went through this and talking to them about it. Also, more than anything, it's just man using the word of God as a mirror, you know, and not really looking in it to see other people, but to see myself, and just a continuous improvement, looking for ways to continue to get better. And you know, hey, I'm going to have grandkids one day, right? Yeah, yeah, you know. So I want to be able to give my children advice, to say hey here's some places where I may have messed up.
Speaker 2:So I think there's no magic wand to it or particular strategy I use or anything. It's just man, I'm just trying to improve day by day, get better listening, and you know, when you see your children go through things in life and you can't just look at them and say I told them you should have you got. To look at you, say what could I have done different early on to prevent this from happening? Right, they make their own choices and decisions. They do stuff. But I think a lot of times when we look at ourselves we'll see the root cause of it is again how we handle them. Right, right.
Speaker 1:And how your hurts have impacted your actions Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And and I think that's so, you know, we you know, being an adult child, having conversations with my parents as an adult is very different, and we talk all the time like we'll we'll share me and my siblings will share experiences we had growing up that we didn't say as as kids, but and then we'll say it and they'll be like, oh my gosh, I had no idea. And then sometimes begin to beat themselves up because it's like I should have known, I should have done something. I hate that. That was the case, that was not what we thought, or not what we expected, or whatever. You know what I'm saying and it's like no, no, no, no, no, it's. There wasn't anything you could do. There's nothing you could have done.
Speaker 1:Some things like you were saying. It's good for kids to go through, right, but what I think has been interesting and is seeing is watching my parents see them in us and like and having that, oh, like. This is why this bothers me so much. Oh, this is what, and that is not an easy thing to come to as a parent, as an older age. You know what I mean. You're still learning you today and I think it takes a level of humility to be willing to do that and be willing to continue to grow and learn and shift and change and unlearn, even yourself, even the parts of yourself that other people probably prop up and really respect and admire, like you were saying about Superdad, right? You know what I'm saying? Hey, that's a badge of honor. The minivan, yeah, Right, for real, all these kids.
Speaker 1:Like hey, that's a badge of honor.
Speaker 2:The minivan.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, like for real, all these kids at my house, right, they love coming over here, but your kids, you know and you were able to see, like, okay, maybe I needed to modify my actions a little bit for that, even though other people gave me the badge, gave me the medal, for things like that.
Speaker 2:I was talking to my brother on the way here and I told him about the podcast and asked him I said, man, what are some things that you wish you had did different?
Speaker 2:He said probably that militant type style of leadership I had in the home. He said it was kind of like for me everything had to be planned out and had to go exactly like this. He's a military guy and he said I probably would be a bit more understanding and listen a bit more and give them room to experience life and make mistakes. Yeah, instead of. And I told her and that's when I said, man, we just got this thing in us. We feel like we have to protect them. You know, and and and I think poverty breathes that sometimes, like coming from where we came from, from nothing, and seeing the things that we've seen, you just feel like you have to and I just felt like I may have muzzled them a bit as kids and by me not being exposed to a ton of things. It limited what I could expose them to you get what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:So yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I think it's interesting having this conversation about parenting and blending families, because you know a lot of people. I don't know the exact statistics on it, but a lot of people are getting married older, which means that a lot of people are probably entering into some version of a blended family.
Speaker 1:And that's a lot more common today than it probably was 20, 30, 40 years ago. Right, you know 20, 30, 40 years ago, in that you know what and you've said a lot. But like, what are some things in when you are dating people that have children? You know, and are, or in, you know, exploring a relationship with people that have children? What's some of the things that you can say? Hey, it's important to have these types of conversations. What should you consider when it comes to a life as a blended family?
Speaker 2:I think the first piece of advice I would give whether it be the man or the woman don't force it. Don't force it Because think about a child who is away from one of their parents. So, no matter how bad it was or what happened when that child is still young, and even as they grow up in 10 years, sometime in adulthood, they still have this vision of the picket fence and the poodle and mom and dad being together, Right, and there's that inkling of hope there saying they're going to get back together. Yeah, it's temporary, right here, yeah, and so that child and this is not from me, this is from Gary Chapman child's, and this is not from me, this is from Gary Chapman.
Speaker 2:I was listening to a podcast with him and another gentleman he wrote a book with and he talked about how that child's love language could be physical touch. But they don't want your touch and you're trying to force it because you think you've read all these books and all this stuff and oh, so I'm going to keep hugging them. They don't want to hug from you right now. Let that kind of be organic and come natural. You just might need to do a fist bump. Yeah, until that child initiates, that's good.
Speaker 2:That hug right and I was like that's wisdom, yeah, that's wisdom, that's wisdom. That hug right. And I was like that's wisdom, yeah, that's wisdom, that's wisdom instead of forcing it. And me personally, I'll say this my daughter, who's not my biological daughter, she had a biological dad in her life and I mean took care of her. He took care of her. He and I didn't see eye to eye, but he took care of his daughter. And so one thing this is another piece of advice I'll give One thing I think I got right. I can say I got this right.
Speaker 2:I would not allow her and that's a strong word, allow but I wouldn't allow her to talk negatively about her biological father. That's good, yeah. And parents have to watch that, because children know how to be manipulative as well to get their way. The Bible said foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child. So they know how to be manipulative to get their way. So she would be gone with her father. But if she come home, he made her upset. I wouldn't entertain that. I cut that off immediately. No, we're not doing that Now. I can't control what happened with her by a lot of your fault. I can't control anything that he may have said or anything or didn't say, but I can control what I do. I'm not going to do that because I want you to respect your father.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're just upset right now because you didn't get what you wanted and some parents fall some of the bonus dads or bonus moms, or even the biological they again, it's all about experiences. They can be bitter at the other individual so they will allow the child to talk bad about that other individual because you don't like them either and now you don't want your child. So you're trying to live through your child, your experiences, and that's a toxic situation. So I think that you should still teach them to honor their other parent. Yeah, and don't try to make, don't like, don't make your kids call you dad. That should be natural. Yeah, I want to earn it.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying? Just love them where they are, get to know them, let them process it. Don't try to force something that don't fit. That's one thing I would say, and have that clear communication. I would give the same advice I give to younger couples who are married. It's funny. I say that now. I'm like I've been married 20 years, but I bet somebody married 50 years. Like you're a rookie. But what I say to my rookies. I say, man, what do you say? The, I guess, key ingredients are for a marriage to be successful? I tell them three things, man keep God first, have clear communication and keep folks at your business, especially your family.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like you know and I think you do the same thing with your kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's real.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying, god. First listen to them more than you talk, because we think we know everything because we are adults, but we don't know how they're processing their experience better than them. I don't care how grown you are, I mean the books you've read. So, clear communication with them and keep focused. You know what I'm saying. Like, spend time listening and talking to them, and when they share something with you, that's between y'all. You know. So that would be my advice.
Speaker 1:Eric, this has been incredibly rich.
Speaker 2:You brought me out, you brought me out. I don't do podcasts.
Speaker 1:Y'all. This has been a treat. He really doesn't. He's being for real. He doesn't do stuff like me. He does not typically do stuff like this and especially Cher, and I appreciate your vulnerability and your transparency Absolutely and I really think this is going to help a lot of people.
Speaker 2:I hope so.
Speaker 1:Like I really do, because it's such a tricky thing. And it's a tricky thing. Relationships are tricky anyway, but bringing in children and then by them other adults is tricky, and to navigate that well and then to have the humility to be willing to continue to learn is such a quality I think a lot of people, I hope a lot of people can really gain from. So thank you for sharing.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. This was so good. All right, thank you once again for listening to the Unlearned Podcast. We would love to hear your comments and your feedback about the episode. Feel free to follow us on Facebook and Instagram and to let us know what you think. We're looking forward to the next time when we are able to unlearn together to move forward towards freedom. See you then.
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