The UnlearnT Podcast
The UnlearnT Podcast is designed to help you gain the courage to change your mind about things you never thought you would change your mind about. Our hope is that you will begin to move towards a life of freedom after hearing stories from individuals who have chosen to unlearn some things in their lives.
The UnlearnT Podcast
Unlearning Parenting: Your Adult Child’s Behavior is NOT Your Failure!
Settle in folks! Patrick and Shemika Harrington share their wisdom on navigating the challenging transition from parenting children to parenting adults, discussing the generational differences between Gen X parents and their Gen Z children in today's rapidly changing world.
• The difference between commanding children and conversing with adult children
• Understanding that "real parenting" often begins when children turn 18 and have full legal freedom
• How to respect your adult child's choices even when you disagree with them
• The painful reality that children may reject what you've taught them: "You guys are good parents, I just don't want what you're teaching"
• Understanding the "fire of free will" and how to parent through it
• Learning to talk less to your children and more to God about them
• The three stages of parent-child relationships: idolized (birth-10), demonized (11-25), and realized (around 30)
• Becoming adaptable and adjustable while maintaining your values
• How to navigate your adult children's romantic relationships without overstepping
• Approaching parenting as coaching rather than controlling
Look up HisWifeHerHusband on Instagram and YouTube, for more parenting and marriage wisdom.
hello everybody and welcome once again to the unlearned podcast. I'm your host, ruth abigail aka ra, and this is the podcast that is helping you gain the courage to change your mind so that you yes, you can experience more freedom. And, uh, I am so glad, so glad, to have back in the building my brother, my, my sister, patrick and Shemika Harrington. How you doing.
Speaker 2:All been good, alive and thrive. Come on alive and thrive.
Speaker 1:That's what I like to hear. For those of you that are newer to the podcast, this is not the first time they have been on the podcast. We've done a couple of pretty awesome conversations. These are truly two um, these, these are my big brother and big sister. They, they are, they mean so much to me. They have so much wisdom. Um, have lived a lot of life, uh, and they have a lot to give. One of the ways they give back is through their coaching. Uh, they do marriage coaching. So, for those of y'all that are interested in you know, thriving and leveling up your relationship, you- need to look up um who we need to look up his wife
Speaker 1:her husband I was getting there. I was getting there. Just give me a minute. Okay, I was getting there. Uh, his wife, her husband, they're on Instagram, they're on YouTube, um, and your information is on there. Is that right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so, yeah, so, uh, it's kind of off a little bit, but on instagram it's his wife, her husband, 97, uh, and on youtube it's his wife, her husband, and his wife is one word and her husband is one word, and, uh, facebook is with him, same way 1997, that's when y'all got married. Yes, so damn they got they got married in the 90s.
Speaker 1:Some of y'all weren't even born in the 90s. Look at that. Oh, and we got a website wwwhiswifeherhusbandnet.
Speaker 3:Wwwhiswifeherhusbandnet. And there you go.
Speaker 1:Okay, so they've been married for a long time and also you know what they have five children, and you know why that's important? Because we're talking about parenting. This particular series, if you're jumping in for the first time, is Unlearning Parenting I have. It's weird. I became a parent about a little over two years ago with a bonus son who lives with us full time and I have been learning.
Speaker 1:Right, right you know what I'm saying. So some of this is going to be for me, so you know, and some of this is going to be for me, so you know some of this is going to be for people and some of it will be for both of us.
Speaker 1:But I've actually had a lot of people reach out to me. It's weird, I'm like about the thing hey, can you talk about parenting? It's not something that I had thought about, particularly adult parenting, which is you know where you guys are in your seasonal life, parenting adult children, which is a weird term, by the way. I just realized that, but like you know that, so that was that's interesting.
Speaker 1:So we wanted to talk about it because then, we got like different generations, raising folk that are, and it's that, but it's, it's this weird, like I don't even know how to describe it. Um, everything in the world is changing really fast, to the point to where I think it makes the generations feel further apart than they actually are because our lives are so different, like we're, we're, you know, even I grew up in a digital age, but I what? But not calling what they call a digital native, but raising a 10 year old, he's a digital native, but it's not like. I mean, it's not like I'm 65, right, I mean I'm in my 30 and I get it. I know how to, how to use it, but my mindset is very different. Um, and things happen so quickly, even in 10 years.
Speaker 1:The world that he knows is very different. So imagine, those of us that are older how much change we've had to figure out and go through and raise children in these rapidly changing eras. So let me just start there. Like you know so, your oldest is how old 30. 30. There, like you know so, your oldest is how old 30, 30 so that she was so all right, so 30 man so in 30.
Speaker 2:If you don't mind, may I give all the ages, because this oh yes, let's do that, yes, all right. So we have five children, three daughters, two sons, and their their ages are 30, 28, 24, no 25.
Speaker 3:She'll be 26 this year.
Speaker 2:Okay, then 24 and 22. So that's every two years, two and a half years, so 30, between 30 and 22.
Speaker 1:Five between 30 and 22. Y'all are in the Gen Z era Y'all are like Gen Z parents all in with the Generation Z, so who's?
Speaker 3:Generation Z Our children.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes.
Speaker 3:Being raised by Generation X.
Speaker 1:Correct, correct, interesting right, interesting Right. So so like okay, let's, let's just start there. What is that? What are the like, what are just the generational differences that are that you see reoccurring on a regular basis, particularly now that there are adults, like do you see a difference between you at 22 and them at 22?
Speaker 2:Now I will say you mentioned something earlier that I did want to to highlight, if, if I could say, the generation like seeing them. Now we are in an era of automated, accelerated, so it's like it's just yeah, everything is already set, fixed and it's moving yeah before we can even catch on, we're like okay, wait a minute, wait, wait, wait wait what.
Speaker 2:So now, as Gen Xers, we are learning to adapt and adjust and to me, in order to be of great benefit to your children, you have to be willing to be adaptable, adjustable. It doesn't mean that something is wrong with what you learn, because I believe we needed that to maybe help them to be grounded and, by the same token, we need our children to help us to pick up the pace Right, and that's a part of bridging that gap in other generations.
Speaker 3:Okay, and I think our children caught the last in terms of education. Like, our children know how to write in cursive, we taught them how to write in cursive.
Speaker 1:Huh, okay.
Speaker 3:Today's generation. I don't think that learning how to write in cursive is necessary, because you can just X or click a box or whatever and the system will create its own signature and you can say, yes, I'm cool with that signature, but. But our children caught the last part where they actually physically had to learn how to write. When I'm growing up, there's no clicking at all. Everything is even when you're. When you're doing life insurance or whatever documentation comes, a person will physically come to your house.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah.
Speaker 3:Now, when I'm doing life insurance, I don't even have to be in the house with you. Yep, I could just do a Zoom call and we'd go from there. So those are a lot of differences, I think, even though it's kind of out of the kind of a little bit of ways, but it is still kind of given how they're they're learning now, as opposed to how we learned. Yeah, coming up, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:So how does that? How does that impact how you teach them?
Speaker 3:Hmm.
Speaker 2:I have opted to slow down. I have opted to slow down. I have told I have stopped apologizing so much, for how can I say like being old fashioned?
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Okay, and so doing my best as a mother to still drop little nuggets within this generation so that it doesn't get lost.
Speaker 1:Give me an example.
Speaker 2:All right, so you know everything is digital, it's you know, online, kind of like what Patrick was saying. But I still journal, like actually use pen and paper, and I teach them to do the same, like don't miss the art of putting it on, putting ink and paper together. It makes you slow down and rest. It's less distraction. It's not to take away from the app, because the notes app is good. Don't neglect. You'll use those skills that you have learned and acquired because that's your advantage over maybe the next generation. That's good, that's really good, that's really good.
Speaker 2:It's more so teaching or showing them that it's all advantages yes still being flexible and adaptable again to be able to intercept and disconnect, because that's where our sauce is I think jim ron said something.
Speaker 3:Uh, I said this last time that to think is to put it in ink. And so we encourage them in terms of writing something down because, for whatever reason, it crystallizes and I'll tell them that I don't know why, I don't know how it works, but for some reason it crystallizes better when you physically write. So, even when I'm talking to them, I'm saying you know, take notes or you know, write down your vision or write down your goals.
Speaker 3:Don't type it Like don't type it don't put it in the keyboard, and so I am encouraging them. You can do that, but do it this way first and just like, go with it and see how that feels, and then there's feedback. You can have a conversation. You know, did you like it better? Whatever my son was taking his test for, to get his I think it was his private pilot, his private pilot license, and he was just going with the digital part and I said do me this one favor, just work with me, just do me this favor. I want you to try it this way. The way you were doing wasn't working. Try it this way for me. Let's just see, let's just figure it out. I said write it down, write the stuff down. And because he tried it and tested and it proved to be true, it proved to work he's doing it now for all of the other tests that he has to take in his flight school.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so so I like what you say. You said, let's just try it. It wasn't a demand or a command right. You didn't say it in that way and I think you know, I think one of the things, that one of the transitions, I say this, I say this on the child side of things, not- the parent.
Speaker 1:I haven't paired an adult child but I've been one and I've been an adult child underneath my parents' roof and I remember there was one day I came inside and, god bless it, my mom is dynamic, and so when she's frustrated, you know it. And so I came into the house and something was out of place and there's nothing that she hates more.
Speaker 2:Let's get into it Right. Something's out of place.
Speaker 1:I walk into the house I'm coming from work and she just goes in and I'm like yo, like like what? And I immediately felt like I was 12, right like, I was like, but I said hold on. You grown and so I. So I had to. And I said in a very respectful I said, mama, I'm about to go upstairs. I don't know what you, what you're talking about, but when you get to a place where we can just have a conversation, I can help you.
Speaker 1:But I said I can't do this. I can't do this right now it came in a very commanding, demanding kind of way, and so I imagine for my mother, as it would be for a lot of parents, that making that transition from a command to a conversation has to be hard. Like, is it hard? And if so, what makes it hard?
Speaker 3:It's hard on a parent because we've been used to saying it one way.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And we have to make the transition in our minds that they're grown, they're not on their own, but they're grown. Or my wife said you ain't really grown until you're on your own, so that they are adults.
Speaker 2:They're not grown until I'm gone. Okay, my fault. I'm gone, glory, and I say that, and I say that because it's not to say that I'm trying to run their life, but the truth of the matter, as long as we are here as parents, we still here to help, train and help you where you are. So the assignment really is never complete.
Speaker 3:If you're a good parent. If you're a good parent, then throw 18 out the window, Right. That's what.
Speaker 3:I thought, when they get 18, they're on their own. That's what I thought. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. When they get 18, it starts like real parenting starts because you can't really give, you can't. I'll say it this way you can't force rules and regulations on them anymore. Now, if they're in my house, I do have a standard and rules and regulations. But check this out I can't make you stay here. I cannot physically force you to stay, which I know is probably a better place for you to be, but I can't make you do that. But I can set these things, these standards, in place that I hope you would be considerate about what's going on in the house that I am the father of, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:When did you, when did you come to that understanding that I like what you said, real parenting doesn't start until they turn 18. I think that's interesting and I'm curious as to how many people would agree and how many people disagree. Because you can't, you don't know, you don't know what your, what your, what you have actually put in them until it's tested right, until they are, until you no longer can hold them. So it's like when did that come? When did that realization come to you?
Speaker 3:Let me, let me lob it.
Speaker 2:I'm going to give her a lob, I bet.
Speaker 3:I'm going to let it rip. My oldest, my oldest, decided that she wanted to go and live with a guy that that I know, I know was not for her.
Speaker 2:Knew.
Speaker 3:I knew, come on, past tense, come on. I knew wasn't for her.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:And it took me a minute because I'm going through and part of me wanted to make her stay, but then I realized I can't, although I know this joker is not right.
Speaker 2:Legally.
Speaker 3:I can't make her stay. If I make her stay, I am against. I'm going against the law now, and that would be kind of like kidnapping my own daughter to do what's right, and I can't do that. Yeah, that took me. That made me say wait a minute, hold up. This is a new space for me. This is a new process, because what was happening, her choice and my convictions were colliding and at that point I had to respect her choice. But I had to get her to understand I need you to respect my convictions. And she decided well, hey, I like my choice better than your conviction.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 3:She literally our child literally told us because we were like maybe we're bad parents, maybe we didn't do it right. We're going through our. What did we go wrong? She said no, you guys are good parents. I just don't want what you're teaching.
Speaker 2:You don't want to do it.
Speaker 1:Pause, pause, pause, pause. Because that right there, I think you're helping somebody. I really do, because somebody has heard that and don't know what to do with that, right? What do you do when your child rejects what you've taught them?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I got some information. What you've taught them? Yeah, shemika, take it from there. I respect it.
Speaker 2:You keep going.
Speaker 3:I respect it Now, face to face. Hmm, you know what? I respect it. That's nice, hey, and then I can do it by respect. I appreciate you telling me Now, later on that night, when it's just Shemika and I, I'm crying, I'm bawling, I'm praying, I don't know what to do. Like God, I need help in this area. What did I go wrong? So fortunate, and I'm beating myself up, but at the same time, I had to to her or to the child, I had to just say I respect it. Behind the closed doors, when me and my wife in the bedroom, I'm bawling, crying because I know what she's about to face with this decision, I thought you were going to say something.
Speaker 2:That was the same thing I was getting ready to say. You have to you, you, you learn to respect their choices, and that is a part of that young adult parenting. It's actually where you now have to begin to flesh out what you have actually taught before them. You know, it's like you know this. This is the moment that we were, we've been trying to get you to. This is the whole. Benchmark. This is the moment that we were, we've been trying to get you to. This is the whole benchmark.
Speaker 2:This is the ta-da Right and so when they finally do make the decision or the choice, and they are fully aware of the consequences that come with it, then you step back and you give them. You give them the option, and then, and then, this is the other thing. Now you have to go back and you have to assess okay, how am I going to fit still in this role, because I still love my baby I remember holding you, I remember telling you I remember getting you through and I am not do my.
Speaker 2:We have to do our best to say, OK, how, how can I stop this investment from dying or coming to an end? This is not how I pictured it. This is not the dream. This is not the return on investment that I dreamed about. So now how are we going to now fit into this whole scheme of things? That looks like being quiet. That's different, because as a mother, I always had a say.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I always had my way so to speak.
Speaker 2:Like this is how I want the dishes and this is how I want you to show up and these are the clothes you're going to wear and these are the people you know you're going to be with. But now it's like you know. No, I want to give this a try. It's like OK, making sure that we continue to send a text message. When they don't want to hear our voice. It's when they don't respond to the text message, you still send up a prayer. You talk less to them and more to God about them.
Speaker 3:I was hoping you was going to say that.
Speaker 2:That's good, and so parenting this is the thing. I know that we say I'm not making the podcast spiritual, but this is the song. We spiritual people Go ahead Good stuff. So when we say Heavenly Father, we say it, but we don't really think about the role of him being a parent to the world. Yeah, these beautiful people, nation, nationalities, cultures, eras all of that. He is the ultimate parent. He has given us free will when we become his children. Friendship is the ultimate right Between parents. You want to be able to connect with your children and your parents on a trusting friendship level, but it can't start there. It has to transition and shift there, and so this is where the awkwardness comes in. All shifts, all transitions are awkward and, for whatever reason, as parents we have a tendency to think that it's just supposed to be automatic, seamless, and I am guilty as charge of that, because you read the word, you pray, you do all of the things and you do not factor in fallen world. You don't factor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, this free will that's right, that's like you know, I'm just, you're supposed to do this.
Speaker 2:You know you're supposed to do this. Yeah, I know I'm supposed to, but I don't want to. And I realize I ain't got to Just like that. I know that's country, but I ain't got to. And so we begin to pray. You do your part as far as okay. Now your words have to be very limited and you're looking for your shot every time to still throw in a train. Throw a lot, you know. Try to throw in some wisdom. Try to instruct with kindness. Don't be so rough. You want to be able. It's like now. We have to earn their ear so that they can learn, versus making them sit down to learn. No, you have to earn that ear for them to hear you out, and you do that by being a trustworthy parent, by making sure that you treat them with respect, because it's not just for adults. You have to learn to respect them even while they're children.
Speaker 3:So that when the time comes.
Speaker 2:Guess what I respect you. I never yelled at you. I never treated you other than who I always saw you being, and that is a future woman or man. And I didn't talk to you any less.
Speaker 3:One of the things that Shanique and I had problems with, because we were trying to figure out if we were bad parents or not, because because the conclusion was for me is that we had to be bad parents or else our children and she wasn't the only one, they all had done something or sure, yeah, that wouldn't have not been any rebellion. But then we had to, and then and so, and then one night shamika was just. She was just bawling her eyes out and just crying about where she went wrong and I said what makes you think you went wrong? So I said let's go to because she mentioned God, let's go to God, who was probably, who is the ultimate parent. In the beginning, he had his, he had his children in the best possible position that they could ever be.
Speaker 3:The text says that Eve was deceived Okay, but the problem is Adam. The text then says that Adam wasn't Okay, which means if he wasn't deceived, he had this loving father who was there, who provided, who gave everything that he needed. If he wasn't deceived, that means he made a deliberate or presumptuous sin. He deliberately disobeyed God, I said. I said, shemekia, you're not better, you're not a better parent than God, right? And yet his child still went you're not a you don't? You're not a better provider for God than God. And yet his child still. So it's not that we and this was all done before the statement was you are good parents, just that's not what I want. But we were still racking our brain and even though I said it, there was still a part of like okay, yeah, but I could have done whatever. You know what I'm saying. And then I saw a Facebook post. So now here I am saying if I had given my children everything that they needed, they wouldn't rebel.
Speaker 2:And wanted.
Speaker 3:If I had given them everything, they wouldn't rebel. Wow. Then I saw a friend who had a Facebook post. He said I messed up by giving my child everything she wanted, which is why she rebelled. Wow, wait a minute time out. Wait a minute, what do I want? That means, so here I am saying I didn't give everything, that's why I rebelled. He's saying I gave everything.
Speaker 3:That's why I rebelled. Okay, that means it really is not anything on the parent. Yep, that's it. It's the free will of the individual Individual who can decide whether they want to or not want to. One more thing, and then I'm going to be quiet. Another thing I had to do was realize how much I'm going to say it this way, how much of a terrible son I am to God.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 3:Once I realized that I was still doing things, that he is telling me don't say that, don't go there, he'll speak to my wife and say don't say it, don't say it, and I'll say it anyway. After I say it, I realize, okay, that was God speaking. I shouldn't have said that, and yet, and still, he's merciful and gracious toward me. That figuring that out made me say, okay, let me be a little. I'm not totally agreeing with everything they do, but let me be more patient Be gracious, be merciful.
Speaker 3:She need to start telling me you got to listen, more, you got to listen more. And I'm still working on that part, because I talk a lot but that listening with the intent to understand where they're coming from. And then we have a dialogue about whether this is a good idea, whether the outcome, whether the consequences, whether the rewards for the decision you make. Are you good with that consequence? You are Okay? Hey, well, nothing I can do about that.
Speaker 1:I mean amen, there are. There's a book that Shamika this is this book and we won't go on this long but this book that Shamika introduced me to called the Fall of Lucifer, and I think the tagline is like time before time, which I love that. I just love that tagline. But anyway, it's basically this. It is a fiction book. It is based on the very little biblical text we have about this, but this author has just reimagined what it was like before Lucifer fell and became Satan. Right, Okay?
Speaker 2:So it's just really really good.
Speaker 1:But this free will thing. They use this phrase, they call it the fire of free will because there's this question to you and you said it, pat pet, like there's this idea of um, you know how could he do this? And, and, and, and. So the, the, the, the, the ancients, the ones who had the most wisdom, they're the ones that use this phrase. They try to explain like it's the fire of free will.
Speaker 1:Our perfect father gave us free will they use the same phrase when he went down, deceived Eve and they said basically, it's the fire of free will again.
Speaker 1:Like it is. We have to contend with this fire that God has allowed us to set when we went, because he wants you know. So there's just this reality, but but again to your point, the consequences, right. So there's a, there's a. There's a scene in the book where God gives Lucifer an opportunity to repent and he says I can't do that. He made his choice Right. And then so we have the Satan that we know today. Again, I want to make a disclaimer this is not the Bible, this is not, we don't actually know, but it's a very interesting read and I think it just it illustrates some of the stuff you're talking about, of just the and we're. You know, we're talking about like so this, this thing is about like, so this thing is, is ancient, this idea of you know, um, am I a?
Speaker 3:bad parent, good parent. How do I stop my children from rebelling? You don't.
Speaker 1:You don't because free will is god's idea, and and so we, and he gives us access to it because he loves us and he wants us to choose to love him, so he gives us free will and then he chooses to, um, uh, the.
Speaker 1:The consequences of that are are what, what? We have to feel Right and so, uh, so anyway, I just that that fire of free will just is, so I love how that phrase like it's, it's the fire of free will. This is the consequence of what free will does, and we have to, we have to, we have to contend with it. What, what, um, what do you? Uh? I want to kind of go back to a little bit what you said earlier, pat, about you had to learn that you didn't really start parenting until you're 18.
Speaker 1:And you said that's not something you knew when you went in. What else did you not know when you went into parenting? I mean like really, Because here's the thing you were children, we were all children, but you know, sometimes we don't make the connect right, Like we don't remember, you know, we just don't do that, I don't. What did you think you knew that you were wrong about that you found out later on, Mm-hmm. And on the opposite side, what did you believe you knew and you ended up being right about? Like, when it comes to parenting?
Speaker 3:Okay, I'm going to pass the baton to Shemeika, because she normally says what? Because if I say it I'm stealing her comment.
Speaker 1:Got it, got it.
Speaker 2:You're welcome to.
Speaker 3:No, no, no, it's your baby, come on.
Speaker 2:Okay, let me answer the question question, but I do want to go back to that. Uh, the fire of free will remind me to go back to that, okay. So, um, I thought, or we thought, that if you did abc you would get def, okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 2:If you input ABC, you get D, e, f, that's just the rhythm, that's just the flow. Yeah, but no, you get one asterisk pound time three, uh, sideway H. You know, it's like what is this? Again, and and Again, and hey, it's so funny. When I discovered the ABC, I used to say then, when we get W-T Y, there are no Y's.
Speaker 3:W-T-F, you get W-T-F. I'm still in there. From now on, from now on, that's what I'm saying. I thought, if I put in A, b, c, I get D, e, f, but you get W T, l. Shoot Doggone it.
Speaker 2:Get the word out of it. You cannot make a word.
Speaker 1:It's so frustrating.
Speaker 2:And again going back to how you started, how we started the podcast, it's like in my era, thinking like now they know what WTF means, but all I see is laughs. So now you're communicating, but I'm missing the connect. We are talking, but we're missing the connect. I'm like Lord I just saw R RAY, because that's how I was brought up. You put in ABC, you automatically know DEF is coming, but instead you get W. Whatever y'all say WTL.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. You asked another question. What was the other one?
Speaker 3:Let me, let me add why I believe that and this may be theological contradictory or whatever something- oh good, I like that, let's go. So the scripture says turn up a child on the way to go and when they were not to part, I automatically assume that the text that I was reading because this is the way I was taught the text that I was reading, that it was a definite promise. It was a promise, yeah, but the Proverbs, from what I'm learning now, they're not definite promises, but they're wise sayings.
Speaker 1:Principles yes.
Speaker 3:Wise. I'm looking for principles, thank you.
Speaker 1:But there are principles, that the likelihood principles, yes, that the likelihood, if you teach this way, you're a bit you're more likely to come out with this equation with this answer absolutely what the part I'm missing.
Speaker 3:This is why. So this is why it's necessary, I think, that we do study and try to figure out and find out what were the original writings writing? What was the original meaning at that particular time? What's the setting, all that kind of stuff. Because what I'm learning now that that that if you train up a child in the way that they're they were, that they're going, it's meaning how are they? How do they lean? What? What direction are they actually going?
Speaker 3:yeah okay, what's their bent? What's their thought like were they bending or leaning toward? Okay, okay, now let's put some parameters around that and teach them in the way, because they're already to automatically human nature will, I think, make them reject it. So my son was one of my sons. He was working on being an artist, a rapper, and I said okay, son, I'm not saying you have to be a gospel rapper, I'm not saying you have to have Jesus, jesus and everything. But Paul said to those that without the law, I become without the law, yet not without the law of Christ. So I want you to use that as a guideline or a fence, or what's the thing when you're bowling A guardrail, a guardrail.
Speaker 3:Boundaries for how you do your music, for how you do your music, and there may be some things that you may say that, hey, it's not really in the Bible, but it's how you feel, it's your feelings, about how you feel about this world, about whatever the case may be, about relationships. Go ahead and have at it, but make sure you stay within the guidelines of the law of Christ. So that was what I'm now learning, or what I really got from that particular verse. That's what this means. So I had to relearn contextually what the text really means. I had to relearn that this is not a promise. This is not etched in stone.
Speaker 3:This is what is going to happen, but if you follow these principles, you're likely to succeed than you are to fail.
Speaker 2:Yeah, go ahead, shemek. I'm sorry. I was going to say there would be one of those disappointing places you know, when you have been taught, trained them up in a way that they should go, so you teach them godly ways to go back to the ABC, and then it's like whoa, transition period, because we're not talking about the in-between, the meantime, and the in-between and the in-between is meantime right and it's like man.
Speaker 2:I thought that if we taught them scriptures and we taught them how to pray and we put them in a Christian, that if we taught them scriptures and we taught them how to pray and we put them in a Christian school and we put them in a.
Speaker 2:Christian environment like this not supposed to be the kick out, but then we, we hadn't been, we, we really don't. I don't think that it's communicated enough about the, the, the, the, the free will of the soul. That is truly life. You know, and you mentioned something earlier too about, you know, rebellion. Now, this is the thing A lovingly trained parent can spot out when something is about to go rogue. They're just sensitive. You can just tell when something is about to go rogue, they're just sensitive, you can just tell. And so no, you don't. How can I say you know you can't stop it, but this is where interception or interceding kicks in. So I do my part to plead and to cry and to communicate with you from a different perspective, a different angle, to say, hey, this is headed towards death.
Speaker 1:This is headed towards destruction.
Speaker 2:This is not going to you not getting ready to get the outcome you think that you are about to get, because we know over time, and we have learned, that rebellion always lies, you know, with the short end of the stick.
Speaker 3:Our child we were speaking about earlier, when we were going through that phase with that particular child, god will always give us glimpse of us training her in the way that she should know. There will always be a glimpse that she's not gone and we will have to use that and to hold on to that and to trust him. That okay that maybe there's a maybe. We are the prodigal child's father and we know what we taught. And the prodigal child's father said the same thing Dad, as of today, you are dead to me. Give me my inheritance. That's pretty much what he said.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And yet the father kept looking forward to him coming back. Yeah, because of what he knew he put inside of him. And so for us, the children are the same way. Yeah, right now it looks rogue, and I hope I'm here, and we had to settle in. Our listen broke and I hope I'm here and we had to settle in. Listen our ism. We had to settle in our heart. We might not see it. There's a chance.
Speaker 3:Even in the hall of fame or the hall of faith, toward the end, nobody reached that part. There were people that they weren't going to see the change that happened in the loved ones life that they prayed for. We had to settle in our heart. We may not see the change. We hope we do. Dad, this is our petition. I don't know, but it was great to even see that, god. Thank you, god, hold on. I thought I was going to make it. To see the change and the turnaround in the child's heart, to see the child come back and now making this change and things are elevated and working out and things are getting better. They're not there yet, but we get to see this particular thing. We had to wait.
Speaker 2:We had to wait.
Speaker 3:We had to endure. It was looking like we're not going to see it, we're not going to get a chance, but for us, our testimony is it. Did you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1:So what do you say to parents who, in the prime kind of of the rearing of children, of the teaching, they didn't really have it together?
Speaker 1:And they can look back and say I didn't do my job as well as I should have in training them up. And now they see it, but their children are gone. What, what, what. What kind of encouragement or advice might you give to those parents who say, man, I missed it and I see the results. And now they're adults and I'm not really sure how I can't get that time back and I'm not really sure what to do?
Speaker 3:Um, for me I would. I would say start there, start where they are, especially if they allow you in their lives. Let's just say it's not a strange point where you can't have a conversation. At that point I would just begin to give them an opportunity, need to do more listening to where they are and why they are, or if they have a feeling about, rather than trying to fix it or trying to give any any, because any, any reason you give is an excuse that they really don't want to hear. It may be a good reason, but in their eyes it's an excuse.
Speaker 3:You know, I'm saying so, don't often an apology, I apologize. That's first foremost. How do you feel. And then, if you're truly sincere about it, continue to pursue the relationship with them and just begin to build. And then they themselves my dad always used to tell me best advice is given. Well, he used to tell me only give advice when it's asked for or when it's life or death. So in this case you're trying to build the relationship to the point that they begin to ask for the advice. At that point they're really willing to hear. But at this point, just build, go back, just, I think, just begin to build a relationship with the intent to understand and to hear, rather than to really try to say what you think you should have said a long time ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Did you have anything, shamik, I did.
Speaker 2:She's a way impatient one, so you want to All right, she acted like it was a delay.
Speaker 3:Keith, are you there? Yeah, yeah, bob, I just guessed. Go ahead.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry you want to admit, admitting or acknowledging where you went wrong is the beginning of the healing. And so, before you even ask the children for forgiveness, go through your healing process of giving grace to yourself and forgiving yourself for where you dropped the ball and missed the mark. If you don't if you don't, I'm not saying don't fix it right away, but forgiveness is a process.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so if you don't receive it first, then you'll be constantly pouring from a half full jar, a half full vessel, and so then you'll end up, you know, reverting back to the same behavior or habits or maneuvers that you did prior to you just start to survive right. So I would say make sure that you acknowledge okay, where did I go wrong? Why was I moving like that? Why was I absent? Why was I all into work?
Speaker 2:Oh, I had a fear of da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. So then, when you go back to the child as an adult and you say, hey, baby girl, I had a moment with myself you know I'm still growing and I'm still discovering, I'm figuring it out and I just wanted you to know that I'm sorry I wasn't there for you, right? And I think that it is most helpful if you catch it and admit it on the front end, versus them coming to you pointing out you weren't there and.
Speaker 2:I missed you and I had to be at da-da-da-da-da house versus you coming to your own. Admit it. So if it's a parent out there and that you know that you had this moment of reckoning where you have acknowledged that you missed the mark, go ahead and go through that process of healing so that you can go to your child and correct it and then begin to see how can I be here for you now, because, again, parenting doesn't end. I missed it on the front end, but I am not missing it now.
Speaker 2:I will drop whatever I need to drop. This is why you got to heal, because if I haven't stopped dropping roads. That's good, that's really good for you, no matter what, if I have to show up for you, maybe through the grandchildren, or show up for you, maybe helping you with your laundry, so you can finish a class or a project or whatever you do, what you can, why?
Speaker 2:But this time you're not doing it from a place of deficit, you're doing it from a place of fullness. I want to help you with it. I'm already fully defined Because I'm under his grace. He gave me space to receive it, so I'm good.
Speaker 1:And I think you make a great point. You said that you said earlier. Forgiveness takes a the place where it's like I really want this, but you're not healed and your child rejects you. There's resentment. That can come and be built up as a result.
Speaker 1:But if you go through the process of healing, then you have an understanding of how long that's going to take, because it might take you long to forgive yourself. So you know, I know that this that I'm going to when I'm ready to approach them. I understand the process that they're about to go through with me through with me.
Speaker 1:And so that and that can it. It puts a more realistic film over what's what's really about to happen. Because that is a process it's going to take a minute. They have to be, they have to get to the place, to where they're willing to be open to receive what they probably have stopped wanting, Like, um, you know?
Speaker 3:so I just love that. Yeah, no, please go ahead. I want to look just a little pushback. Yeah, Because the way I hear it, it sounds like it sounds as if I can't pursue the child until I'm ready. But what if the child is ready? Then do you say, well, no, I can't, we can't start this right now, can't start this right now, and so it may be, and that's not what y'all saying. Then that's great, because it may be an issue where we have to travel this road together and as we begin to converse, we'll find out. You know that we're both broken and we both need to be put back together again. What's your saying? You say Sonequa about the pieces.
Speaker 2:Making peace with the pieces. Making peace with the pieces. Yeah, and to your point, patrick, and I do want to share. Thank you for sharing that. But I do want to say that remember that forgiveness and healing is unique. It's just like we're going through a whole life experience. So, ideally, if you come to this acknowledgement yourself, I am admonishing you to go ahead and go through that healing so that you can get a jumpstart on it.
Speaker 3:That's ideally right.
Speaker 2:However, if you all come to a conclusion because you're looking at a movie and y'all crying together and it's like, oh, we're from the hill, it's not like, no, you went over there while I'm not saying that.
Speaker 2:Okay it's like again, unique it's. It's a tapestry, life is a tapestry and that you have to be willing to see what the end is going to look like. At the end, we do want to have a whole. We want to have whole pieces, we want to leave each other better than we found each other. We want to be glad that we were assigned to each other as a parent and as a child, and so, with that being said, we sometimes have to remember or I know I have had to remind them hey, this parenting that we're doing.
Speaker 2:I've never done it before. I've never done this before. So, yeah, we are. You know, 30 years in, three decades in, but guess what, I still have never been a 40-year-old mother. So now we are learning. Then we turn back to bless and encourage somebody else that, hey, you may want to keep a heads up on that and I do want to share. You may want to keep a heads up on it and I do want to share. I do want to share something this is not in a textbook.
Speaker 2:I'm just telling you from what I've learned is my own little observation.
Speaker 3:So we have five children and each one of those children had their own temperaments.
Speaker 2:They went through that, you know, infancy stage, I'll say, from even carrying carrying to the infancy stage to the toddler stage. I personally believe that if it's a parent out there and you at the beginning stage is pay very close attention to the temperament of your child. You can pretty much tell from the, the uh, the, the toddler and the infancy stage, like if they were criers, if they required a whole lot of affection, if they were one of the ones that always wanted a bottle. Like they, they cry when you leave out the room. Just look different things like that. Are they?
Speaker 2:um, do they have a proclivity to share or are they really more takers you have to pay attention to how they move, because now, at this stage in their life, there are no words yeah all action got. Right, pay attention to that, because guess what, when that next, when a terrible two, terrible, three phase wind off, guess what it's going to show back up in the adolescence stage. Right, I think it's just different now, interesting. Now you got words and you got friends and you got peer pressure.
Speaker 2:But now, if you remember how they moved as children, right, you'll kind of see that same thing as a teenager and it's like no, you don't know how to circumvent it, right? Yeah, because I paid attention to you, were, uh, you were like we had one child and she would just oh, she would just this was her way of expressing anger, or she would just kind of move. Then we had one that she just soothed herself. She would just suck her thumb when she was mad. She was just like, okay, I'm just going to pay attention and calm down.
Speaker 3:And what about the son? What about the son who couldn't like? He was just.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, he was anxious, like he was just constantly anticipating the next move and we would have to say, hey, slow down, I'm here to tell you those children. They still have those same temperaments and so now it's like, okay, you to tell the child that wants to do what they want to do no, dangerous the moment you tell them no they're going to show you oh yes, I can.
Speaker 2:So now, what do you do now? Now what I have learned? Because, again, on the front end, I didn't know. But then there was that phase that we had to learn. Now it's like like no, instead of telling them no, how about you say, hey, have you stopped and considered maybe this right here? Or what outcome are you looking for? Will that really give you that.
Speaker 2:Now we're making them think now, that was the other thing I'm sorry to keep, okay, but know, if I could, if I could emphasize, to like make sure, as a parent, that you teach your children how to think through all the way to the end. If you teach them how to think, then guess what? Whatever it is that they feel like they have to experience, and they exhausted all measures. They went down every corridor, every lane in their mind before they take the journey. If they choose it, it's like oh okay, so you really knew what you were choosing what's your?
Speaker 2:reason why for choosing that? Okay, what is the plan? Bc, how? What is your escape like? Talk to them, dialogue, let them express and then say and you, okay with those choices. If that's what happened, okay now, how did I fit in this? Am I in your story like act?
Speaker 2:yeah, so then, by the same token, I'll even say, even when it comes to our heavenly father. He already had redemption set to the side, he already had the sacrifice and the way made and as parents, as excellent parents, you do your best to try to make it where it'll always be favorable for your children. You never want to make it where they constantly have to have hardships to learn. That's another thing we had to unlearn. That's hard work. You don't have to go through hardships to figure it out.
Speaker 2:You don't have to go through experiences every time. Sometimes, if you're a great storyteller, if you're a great communicator, you can get it over to the children that, hey, I love you, I trust you. I'm telling you this because I don't want you to experience that pain. Life has already got a lot of stuff that you you got to contend with. Don't pick that up Like if. I say don't touch that hot eye. Any loving parent not going to let their children just touch that hot eye.
Speaker 1:Don't do it. I have a question. Would you say that you have two boys? Y'all have two boys, two young men. Would you say, going back to the temperament as a man, do you have the same temperament as both of of your boys and do they have the same temperament as each other?
Speaker 3:uh, they each have something from me they do okay fair, got it, that's fair.
Speaker 1:So the thing that is unfamiliar about their temperaments to you and and let me say it like this, let me give an example you know you might have a father who this is the case of my father and he said this publicly, so I don't think it's okay that I say it. Both of his stepfather and his natural father were both great with their hands. They were handy. They were, they were excellent. They were craftsmen. They loved being outside doing all that. He loved to read the dictionary.
Speaker 1:That was his way of entertainment. That's him. He's a reader.
Speaker 2:He's a learner.
Speaker 1:He can't do nothing with his hands. He don't like changing light bulbs.
Speaker 1:He'll do it, but he don't like it right, so so the like so, like that kind of difference you know, raising a son, I'd say specific that is different from you, is that something that you've experienced on any level? Um, and if so, how do you help fathers? How can you help fathers to, you know, accept certain differences and then, like, not try to mold them into who they are, but really love them for who, who they are, who their child, who their son is? I'm, specifically, father and son and, um, I think it's a very interesting relationship and and it's like, especially when it's like yo, yo, where'd you get that from?
Speaker 3:That ain't me Like I don't know. I don't know where you got that from.
Speaker 1:And sometimes it can be difficult to handle, to understand, to deal with or whatever. If that's the case, I don't know, maybe it isn't.
Speaker 3:So yes and no, I think one of the things you would want to do, so I have, so my clients, because I want to know where I tell you where I got it from. I have clients now. Most of my clients are adopted parents and one of the statements that they say is connect before you, correct, and so, while as a Gen X, that's not how my parents were raised. It was not. You don't connect nothing. I'm going to connect this belt to your butt if you don't get up that was how it was.
Speaker 1:That's right, for real. That's for real.
Speaker 3:I would say, before you do correct, I would encourage that to really connect with his son so you won't have to take them outside and dust them off right quick, because every son gets to a point where he feels like he can take his dad. But if there's a connection that's different from yours, not in a bad way, but just they just do things different. Um, my son is a little bit more, I'm saying, nonchalant, but nonchalantant, he doesn't, he doesn't worry as much.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:He's more like he chill yeah.
Speaker 2:Don't work his stuff out, take it easy. He's seriously chill. Yeah, you know what I'm saying, what you doing.
Speaker 3:So that I'm like we got, we got and they're like the other thing is so my dad was in the house, but I'm just going to sound bad. So my dad was in the house but we didn't have a relationship. So, but he's in the relationship. I mean he's in the house but we're not talking to have a conversation. So I'm saying I'm going to have this relationship with my son, we're going to talk all the time the time. But I miscommunicated because for me, talking all the time meant, when I say something, that's part of what you have to do it, not knowing that they're learning something different or they're still getting what I'm learning. They're just not learning it the way I learned it. Check this out.
Speaker 1:This was just made because this used to make me mad. Nor are they learning it the way I learned it.
Speaker 3:Check this out. This was just made because this used to make me mad, nor nor are they learning it from me. I used to be mad because I'm taking all this time that my dad, it didn't take with me to tell you these things and you don't tell me, you don't get it. But sister, so-and-so, or brother, little bud, tell you the exact same thing and y'all. Now it clicks and I used to be mad. I'm like, wait a minute, I'm investing all this time, I'm trying to do all this, and why you not? Then I got to a point like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa Took me aback. Hey, at least they're getting it. Yeah, at least they're getting it. It doesn't matter how they're getting it in turn, because they're getting it the right way, right, at least. At least they're they're getting it. So my son and I'm not sure where he got it I think he got it from. I think they both got it from their granddad.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because my dad is mellow and humble. He doesn't yell a lot.
Speaker 1:He's not extra.
Speaker 3:He's not extra like me. Right, right, right.
Speaker 1:Unless you provoke him, yeah.
Speaker 3:And so my sons, and sometimes they get mad at me, especially when I'm driving. I realize they say I have road rage a little bit. And my oldest son would be like Dad, just let him over. I'm like no, but they shouldn't wait to the end. They're going to wait till the last minute to try to get over. And they knew, they saw the arrow sign. And that's me.
Speaker 3:My son was like dad, just don't take all that Don't do that, and so it affected me a little bit. Boy, I'm like, okay, maybe I'm not being a good example for my son, so that kind of. I kind of felt that way a little bit.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:And then I had to realize okay, wait a minute, you know what he's actually right. At this point I can learn from him rather than him learning from me.
Speaker 1:So I hope that's what you were asking. No, that's good, that's good. What was your thought?
Speaker 2:I think a lot of times too. We can sometimes take our experience with our parents and project it to our children. Absolutely, the truth of the matter is their dad was always present and involved, but from Patrick's perspective, he experienced not I mean his parent being present, but not as hands on. So now for the children they're like look, I don't have that issue with you, like just chill out. I got the lesson. Let me show you that I got it. You know, so we have to be yeah, that's another one.
Speaker 3:I'm learning that I feel like I have to be there because I'm like I want them to get it. I there, because I'm like I want them to get it, I want you to get it, I want you to get it. And my son Patrick was just one of the things that he said that made me stop. He said, dad, he was on the phone talking to somebody. It was an issue that he was having and I'm like and say and say and say and say and say and say dad, dad, dad, so I can grow, let me. It's not, it's not a bad situation where he's about to fall off the cliff and I need to hurry up and catch him. No, it's him handling his own business, his own way, the way he know, is going to get the same results, whether the me say, and you tell them, it's like, like hey, that that he said he was, he was, he was he, he manned up a little bit. He said, dad, I got this. I said you're right, yeah, my fault. Let me back up some.
Speaker 1:That's so, shemeika cause. I would love to get a similar perspective if you have them with your girls. Like different temperaments, I love that you brought that up, like understanding what your child, the temperament of your child, is. You know, I know me and my mom. My mom is fiery, she's fiery and she go from zero to a hundred. I don't I tick my way up there. I'm not a zero to a hundred, I'm more of a zero to 10. I probably come back down to 0. Like I don't do all that.
Speaker 3:Listen, I'm going to interrupt you. Shamika got 0 or 100. She either 0 or 100.
Speaker 1:No, that's real. So it's like but my sister is the same as my mama 0 to 100. Like she can go from whoop. It's like how did we just get there?
Speaker 1:and I thought and often I find myself like you know, just hey, like, like you say, your boy, just y'all, it ain't that. Like, just chill, like it's okay, um. And so my mom, sometimes I feel like with what? Like I, like I'm cool, we don't have, you don't't have, you don't have to go, you don't have to go here with me Now with her you might have to, but not with me. I ain't like that. So hold on right.
Speaker 1:So, like that's, that's kind of how my so like, how do you, how do you manage parenting girls with different temperaments than you?
Speaker 3:Hmm.
Speaker 1:Prayerfully.
Speaker 2:And it's interesting because that is true, if you, it's just I can't say. I was always like this, but I am becoming more aware that I'm seeing them as young ladies, like if I was friends with somebody else. That's just how they click's, just how they tick, and so, hey, I'm just going to kind of do my best to try to help you see, or to offer this wisdom with kindness, like to instruct with with kindness, versus saying girl, saying girl, pull your, pull your leg down, you know it may not be something I prefer, but to say you know well what's the story behind this.
Speaker 2:You know, to actually ask the question Really concerned, versus again trying to project it boils down to a matter of respecting their space, because now they're at a place where they are free to express. And they're at a place where they are free to express and now is that a place where, if it's healthy, it's healthy expression, it's okay. Now, if it's toxic, like I have had to tell them, uh, just let y'all know I have had to tell them I'm gonna be your mama. Yeah, all you ready to do is tell me how to be something. You're not. So I have a different care for you. So if I go to a hundred, just hold on, be patient with me.
Speaker 2:Just know that it's from a place of love. I do have to remind them of that. Know that it's from a place of love. I'm not trying to demean or belittle or think that you don't know what you're doing with your life. I already know that, but it just made me panic. So there's a constant again apologizing and making sure that you give those needed disclaimers, because sometimes we don't know.
Speaker 1:That's real. No, that's really good, and I think that is something that parents at any stage have to unlearn is that you know every know everything. It's funny I joke with tyson. You know he'll be like you don't know everything. I said I know more than you and so you know but, but you know.
Speaker 1:But he is a way and I affirm, no, I do not know everything like and, and so I don't want him to ever think that adults, just because somebody is older than you, does not mean that they know everything. They might know more, but they don't know everything.
Speaker 1:And so it gives them room to have a voice to say. There are some things that you said earlier that maybe you can learn from me too, which is crazy to think you know to learn from a eight, nine, 10, you know, 15, 20, 22 year old, but that is real and we have to humble ourselves to do that, like there's so much that they can teach us. Um, I, I want to. This is weird. I feel the need to go here. I don't even know how I'm gonna set it up because it is not on the list, but and then, and then I'm going to kind of end it with just some, some, some. I will end it with a different question, but so I think I heard a statistic of 50, 51% of people. No, no, 51% of the church at this point, no, I think of Christians. Anyway, bottom line there are more single adults than there ever have been today. Right, I think the number is like 46%, and up from like 23% in 1970. And up from like 23% in 1970.
Speaker 1:So it is doubled in 40 years, 50 years, like we've doubled the amount of percentage of single people. A lot of those single people are in that age range of 30 to 20, 20, 30, 35, all of that, your kids at range right? See if I can make this make sense. Y'all bear with me. What impact does a marriage have on adult children? Um, and how do you parent through your children being in relationships?
Speaker 2:It is so good, patrick, you have anything?
Speaker 3:I'll let you go first.
Speaker 2:I think marriage plays a very significant role in shaping our children, those young adults, and I say that because let me get this disclaimer too, the marriage being toxic, because we need to talk about that.
Speaker 3:Come on.
Speaker 2:Or being healthy Toxic, like yeah, no, I'm good, I'm not signing up for that. I don't have to. Why? Because we do live in a single base society, so I don't have to put up with it. I can do it by myself. But then, by the same token, if it's healthy, you see the power of partnership. You see how healthy like you can get through life and get so much more accomplished when you have a healthy spouse in the house. What was your last? What was your next? Oh, and navigating through the relationships, yeah, I believe that.
Speaker 2:I believe that if they see it healthy right, then they are longing for that, they are anticipating, and sometimes I think that if you see a healthy relationship, they assume that it's going to be automatic for them we have had to remind our children hey, hey, hey, we had to put in work and hours, days, we had to go through experiences.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, we have a Tempur-Pedic mattress now. But we started out on the eggshell crate on the floor because we didn't know those things. So it's like you have to go through those dark your. So we have to remind them that in your relationship, remember they're all unique. So now, if you don't see yourself going through with this person, let's say if they never change, they have somebody right now. Let's say they never improve. Are you okay with this person right here? You cannot say that. You would say I do to them right here and nothing ever changing. You gotta cut your losses. Don't say I do to them right here and nothing ever changing. You gotta cut your losses.
Speaker 3:Don't say it. That's right. One thing, shemekia what I always ask them is the person in your life now. Are they more of a liability or an asset to you, or how have they? How have you been better as a person? How have you been better as a person with them in your life? And we just sit there and we kind of listen to them going forward.
Speaker 2:And those questions came as a result of me messing up on the first two, telling them no, that's not the one, that's not the one, that's not the one. Wait a minute, that's good now. What are your thought-provoking questions? Hey, the same place. They found you or you found them. Are they still at their place? For instance, you found him. He stopped you at the bus stop Because he riding the bus too.
Speaker 1:There it is.
Speaker 2:Y'all still riding the bus.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know years later, like no, you shouldn't be in the same too. There it is, y'all still riding the bus. Yeah, you know years later, like no, you shouldn't be in the same place. My point is that it should be some improvement.
Speaker 1:They should be better.
Speaker 2:You should be better as a result, and when their face pop up on their phone are you smiling? Or are you cussing? Oh see, I can't answer those questions. Those are the things you, are you smiling or are you cussing? See, I can't answer those questions. Those are the things you have to keep monitoring and checking your heart, because, at the end of the day, it's things going on that you have never told mom and daddy. And then the other thing that I have told them is that I'm watching from afar.
Speaker 2:I see how you light up or you don't I can see the glow, I can see the sky, I can see it. So now this is the other thing Learning that everything that I see, I don't have to say, I don't have to say everything that I see, that's good, that's so good. Yeah, I can look and be like that ain't going to be long.
Speaker 3:Girl, you know that ain't going to be long.
Speaker 2:Why would you say that? What was your reason? You just begin to again ask those self-provoking questions or you go back to that. Like I was saying earlier, you journal and you pray and say you know what, lord, I already see this is not held and I don't want them to go through that. Then the Lord may tell you this is the way for them to know about who they are, because this is who he is. We are discovering who God is, but he also want us to discover who he created us to be, and I think that this is a sidebar, but I do think that that is one of the things that we have to unlearn as believers. But I do think that that is one of the things that we have to unlearn as believers that, yes, god do want us to come to know him, but he also want us to come to know the gift of who he created us to be, and that is not a slight to him in any shape, form or fashion, I agree.
Speaker 3:So that's a double standard, because it's we at least the men in my life. It's easier for us to watch our sons go through heartaches Like, hey, man, my son got his heart broken For real. You ain't growing up now. You know what I'm saying. My daughter oh man, we got a problem, bro, especially again, it's me projecting because of who?
Speaker 3:I bro, yeah, especially again it's me projecting because of who I used to be. Especially I don't want her to meet who I used to be, because I know how I was before I got myself right, and if I see a guy that I know he's resembling how I used to be I got a problem. But as a young adult I can't do it. So I need the barbershop talk so I can say man, this little white man, he right out there, and I can say what I can say. So they can say hey, little Pat, leave that alone, because I did this. And so we get to kind of iron it out. I got to get it out, though, because if I don't get it out, and sometimes my wife just don't understand because she's like what?
Speaker 2:boo, you just got it.
Speaker 3:No, baby, I'm not praying about this right now. I don't feel like praying right now Like this is some we need to get. I need to put him in position where he can act up so we can move some furniture up, so we can move some furniture, you know what?
Speaker 1:I'm saying so again, but it's a double standard, because that's my baby girl.
Speaker 3:You know what I'm saying. And, man, I don't know what you own. You look like you own what I used to be on and I know who I am and I don't want nobody to do my daughter like that. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:My son, he'll figure it out. You know what I'm not saying. Everybody's like that.
Speaker 3:I'm just saying maybe it's the circle that I've been around. Most folk are like that.
Speaker 2:That's how we think. And guess what Mothers are like that with their sons? We can spot them out. And maybe it's because of where we're from, you know the different angles.
Speaker 1:No, I think that's true. It's funny, Like, like I said, I don't this wasn't planned to talk about this, but there's just like it's really interesting. I think a lot of younger people I mean loneliness and all these statistics, mental health, they're so off the charts and and and so relationships, understanding how to pursue healthy relationships, how to sustain them. It's just it's missing, Something's missing and I don't you know. Go ahead, Come on, Come on, Come on, Come on, Come on.
Speaker 3:So in the beginning he said he said he said I don't want you to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Knowledge of good and evil I think it's in the New Testament said later on in times will come that men will call good evil and evil good. All right. So now we have a society now that they don't view marriage as something sacred anymore. I saw one podcast a guy called marriage is a business deal or a business partnership or something like that, and they've taken away or moved away from Covenant.
Speaker 3:One day our car broke down and we were riding the bus and the children on the bus acting crazy and the old lady we could tell she was kind of squirming because they were doing a lot of cursing. So I said Shemika, let's go back and let's just sit back there and talk to them, let's just get in their world. And so we just started asking questions, asking questions. She said so what about marriage? I said what about marriage? She said marriage that's for old people. So now that's a thought process. It's for old people.
Speaker 3:Other thing we look at all of the things and I did the good and evil, because men change morality depending on what they view it should be, when God already has a moral standard of how things should be. But because we have this knowledge of good and evil, we don't know, we're calling things the wrong thing and we think we're progressing, but we're really digressing as a society. So now you have in movies it used to be a point what did you get married? Or they would get married, didn't have children. Now living together is the thing to get to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Guess what he gave me a key right.
Speaker 3:You know what I'm saying Now. He gave me a ring.
Speaker 1:He gave me a key or he gave me a drawer. Right, he gave me a drawer.
Speaker 3:It's like so that's perpetuated now so marriage is not Wait.
Speaker 1:I know drawers.
Speaker 3:So marriage is not most important, nor is it seen as important, yeah, and so you're going to have the fallout from that. It's going to be more single parents, more single mom. Last thing she made them throw to you. Isaiah warned us about this that at some point women will go to men and tell them I don't want your marriage, I just want, I just want a child. But I just want, yeah, I just want a child. Go ahead.
Speaker 2:Go ahead, if you correct me want a child, but I don't want go ahead. Go ahead. If you correct me, I was gonna say that it mentions about them not needing their riches or their wealth. They just wanted their name so that they could be protected, but not, you know.
Speaker 2:Again, it's not a relationship going to the contraction you know, yeah, contract, yeah, yeah, um, you mentioned about loneliness, you know, being single. I think that I'm not. I think that's, I think that's a type of point to what Patrick was saying. Just a decline, you know, and people, just maybe how it's perceived and projected it's not like this, I don't know. I think that that has a lot to do with the shift in the mindset of where we are. By the same token, I do think that singleness has gained this stigma of kind of like a scarlet letter, like if you're single and you're not married, then what's wrong with you?
Speaker 2:Like wait?
Speaker 1:a minute.
Speaker 2:Yeah, hold on. You're not married, then what's wrong with you? Like, wait a minute, yeah, yeah, hold on right, because, at the end of the day, if you're not married, you still should have family, you still should have some points of connection where you can still thrive as an individual, as you hopefully are pursuing to be in a marriage. Because you what to me, what happened is, is that you're rushing to a relationship, a permanent relationship, because you don't want to be single. Yeah, wait a minute.
Speaker 2:Who says singleness was bad? If you are handling that assignment because, again, it's an assignment you're handling that assignment with grace and truth. You know it's like. The reality is this is where I am. How am I supposed to conduct myself? How am I supposed to move? How can I give you glory in this space? Yes, so, yeah, so. And then this is the other thing.
Speaker 2:This all came to me today. I was reflecting. This is a sidebar, but anyway, sometimes I know that the scriptures say it's not good for man to be alone. However, I do believe let me go back I believe that we kind of rushed through the fact that Adam still had a season of aloneness before his companion came on the scene. Right, right, and so, with that being said, I think that connecting it even to parenting that it's going to be times and seasons where you have to be alone in this wilderness place. You have to be alone in this space of uncertainty or not knowing so that you can tap into what it is, who you are to be and what you are to do in this moment, so like when I come out of this space because we know that it's not going to last always, yeah, it's like OK, how do I show up?
Speaker 2:You know so, even though I think you were saying, even with the relationships, like as a parent, not rushing your children, it's like you need to get married, get out of my house Like whoa, wait a minute. Yes, the word that I picked up I don't even know if this is a real word, but I call it nestling, so they're not always empty nestling. I like that. But then you know they're not little bitty eaglets either. You know they're not just so. It's kind of like they're stretching and they're trying to gain their space. It's like give them space for grace, let them figure out, don't rush them to the next phase and don't wish them in old days. The truth of the matter is they're not little anymore and they are headed to a destination. But meanwhile, as parents, we need to be thanking God that he's allowing us to have a front row seat in this dynamic right, because it could be that you're not, you couldn't be involved at all. They could have just snatched away.
Speaker 3:I think one of the things one of the things tamika, I was hoping she would connect in terms of why they're more singleness out or single parents, whatever case may be. Um, I think part of it is because we're rushing, but the thing is because they're not. Again, the marriage is what we want to be married. Then these things happen, but they're not taking their time developing with the Lord. So if we bring back developing that, developing in my singleness, the relationship with God, it will give us more patience to wait for the right person, absolutely.
Speaker 3:As opposed to rushing in Absolutely. I really believe that we're in a generation that know not God. So because they don't know God, they're coming with their own judgment or what they think is right. So we have a lot of what we're seeing because that personal relationship with Christ is missing. To make me be okay in my singleness until I find the right one, as opposed to rushing into something, he or she is not the right one. Now I'm a single parent because I didn't wait, because I didn't find my solace in Christ and Christ alone.
Speaker 1:Which is really, I find really difficult for younger people these days is being alone and being patient and waiting and just being still. It's hard, um, it's hard for this generation to do that because that's not the way our life is set up, it's not the, it's not the world that they've grown up in. There's, you know, they, they are moving, moving, moving, moving, moving, moving, and it's like they, it's hard to know how to be. So it's hard for my generation to know that too, right, um? But I think for this, this generation, I mean, it's tough, like so. So I, I, um, I think that's good, I think that's good, I. This next question is for me, um, I'm doing it publicly because I need help. So, you know, we have a, we have a son, and I recognize that sons need something different than than than the daughters do like boys and some different than, and I also recognize that men and women parent differently. I recognize that there have been moments that I've gotten in the way of.
Speaker 1:Ty parenting Tyson as a young man. Help me and others, particularly Pat. What do wives need to do or make sure they stop doing in order to get in? That may get in the way of father's parenting sons.
Speaker 3:Yeah, shut up.
Speaker 1:I'm just about to say Noted Got it All right, Ben Got it noted, got it all right, bet, got it.
Speaker 3:I was trying to see where my wife no, but listen. Even now, as a young adult, sometimes I have to tell my wife I say, hey, hey, let me handle these men like I just hope. Just just be patient. These are, these are my sons. I want the best for them.
Speaker 3:You've seen me throughout the years handle them with love. So it's not that I don't love them, you know, I love them. I need you to just stay over there because, whatever's in me, they need to hear the voice. Hear the voice. And they don't. They don't need to hear you. Always rescue them, because now in their mind, whether they know it or not, they see okay, there's, here's the wedge I can draw or I can create between this, just how children are. Okay, let me, let me, let me ask in front of my mom the whole time. So my dad said something, my mama said something, my dad said something, my mama said something. When my dad said something, my mama said something. So really do, if it's anything I'm not saying don't say anything, but that's what pillar talk is for. Yeah, hey, you know you probably should have did that. Da, da, da, da, da da. You probably should go.
Speaker 2:Where are you coming from? I would say make sure that you seek for understanding even from your husband, because we can never know that testosterone.
Speaker 1:Yep Amen.
Speaker 3:And this is something about being especially being an African-American man and what we go through and us trying to to properly teach our sons how to navigate this world and the things that we go through. So again and I was, I was joking, I said it that way, but no disrespect, sometimes you have to really just stay silent and in that, that moment, you can't say anything to us. In that moment you really got to be talking to god, yeah, and god will talk to. He will tell us hey, listen, and then I have to go back and apologize. Some of my fault I shouldn't say it that way. Some of my fault I should have went that way. Some, please forgive me, I'm working on it. Whatever do is that's what that is you feel what?
Speaker 3:what I'm saying? Sure, so yeah, and if you know, you've actually married a really good man. I guarantee you he'll figure it out. So here's what happened. If I'm dealing with my son, this is so good. If I'm dealing with my son and you get in the way, now I have to say something to you, because I can't let him see what this little thing is. You can't even avoid me, wait a minute.
Speaker 1:Wait a minute, you can't even avoid me.
Speaker 3:Hold on baby, Hold on baby, Let me just deal with him.
Speaker 1:But I'm just saying baby.
Speaker 3:So now I got to apologize to you and him. Right, right, right, yeah, yeah, so yeah even if there's no more, if you could find a way to signal to him, signal to the husband, something like that, but to actually say anything, I think you should probably just wait. Uh-huh, pull a. Talk a little bit more ease, and then you can have a conversation. And yeah, we talk a little bit more ease and then you can have a conversation. And yeah, we'll listen.
Speaker 1:Talk to me, Shemeika, please Talk to me.
Speaker 2:So Patrick is telling the truth. That is correct. I would like to add too that you have to stay list and, because we are fixers when it comes to our children, you have to sit on your hands because sometimes, like even even though you can be quiet, but your attitude and heart posture, oh man, you like man. I can't wait till we get in the bed. I'm going to let it rip, see all of that.
Speaker 1:So it's like really working towards having a quiet settle, like know in your heart, and I would encourage any mother out there like know that it's going to work itself out, like it's designed, if let me say this if it's healthy parenting correct I think this, this is definitely a conversation that we we have had, you know, and he's been very, very gracious and patient with me, as I, you know, you know, on top of being a a, a a woman, I'm also a bonus mom, so he's not naturally my son.
Speaker 1:So there's also that layer and so, but I've had to, I've, I absolutely have had to learn how to like hey, hey, like there is. There is a difference. You can't, he ain't go do it the way you would do it Correct, and you can't get in the way of how he is doing it.
Speaker 3:So let me say so, let me add this extra thing to you. Ok, just for here. Ok, so typically, when people ask me how many children do you have? So when I, when I ask about Shamika and I meeting, I say when I first met Shameka, she was eight months pregnant with our first child. And they're like what, what does that mean? Like huh, what? And I let them figure everything else out. Yeah, but from that point so I wouldn't even say bonus, it's not a bonus. This is my son, yeah for sure. Well, when y'all got married two years ago, how old is he? Ten, huh, that's my son. Well, how does that work? That's my son. Like, there's no bonus, there's no step.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I do as best I could to remove that. Because, remember now, even with the blending family, how do I remove all of the, how to remove any stigma in terms or any barriers between the relationship between me and my child? Well, one of the things I don't. I don't say bonus, I don't say step.
Speaker 2:That's my son.
Speaker 3:However, they want to figure it out, that's up to them. I had one guy, so I know, so I know, you know what I'm saying. You got, y'all got, five children, but how many of yours? Five? I know I'm saying about how many, how many of yours? Five, five. Now you know what I'm asking you and I'm telling you all five, five are mine. Yeah, I'm saying how many biological belong to you? All five are mine. That's all you get.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So that in terms of I just want to throw it out in terms of the parenting, that's going to help as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah it is Because, as they're growing up.
Speaker 3:They don't need to hear bonus four step. Now they'll know that they got another because you'll have that conversation. They understand that Right. But they keep hearing son, son, son, daughter, daughter, daughter, not stepson, not stepdaughter. I'm not introducing as my stepson, I'm not introducing my stepdaughter.
Speaker 1:This is my son.
Speaker 3:And every conversation. So they figure well again. Well, how does that? If y'all just got married, what was it? Let them figure it out. That's is that if y'all just got married, let them figure it out.
Speaker 1:Right, that's on them, they'll figure it out on their own time. Yeah, yeah, no, that's good, I think that's good, um, and I appreciate that wisdom. I'm, I'm, uh, um, and you know, while shamika was off screen, pat really gave me some great, great words and I think other um parents that have blended families really, really, really great wisdom. So I want to end it on this. I want to know two things. I do want you to kind of give your last kind of unlearnings that you think parents, particularly of adult children, but if it applies to any stage, but before we get there, what are things that your children have taught you that you didn't expect to learn from them?
Speaker 2:I would say that I've learned from them to like, but I don't know if this is the, just let me say it. They have taught me to trust, to trust the process.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, that's good.
Speaker 2:And, and not necessarily only in parenting, but just in life period. And now this is without them saying, hey, mama, you need to learn how to trust, but it's just been developing. The other thing is that life is a creative experience. Just enjoy the journey Like, be childlike, always Like it's. It's not about being perfect, it's about being there, you know, and of course, you want to mature and develop Like you should see some things get better in your own life as a parent, you know. And then the other thing too would be um, I may, I may be getting ahead of myself, but it's so.
Speaker 2:In any career, any job, you look for feedback, right, and so it's okay to ask the children how can I be better? How can I better serve you? Right? What is it that you need from me as a mother? Now they probably just going to say I don't know, but it's like if, if, if you could give me a heads up of what you thinking in your mind, like how could I better, you know, help you on your journey of becoming a young lady or going to college or whatever, whatever, whatever it is that they may be going through. But my point is it's just, it's okay for you to go to them and ask them to you to give you a grade on being a parent.
Speaker 1:That's really good.
Speaker 2:Would you give me an A, B, C, D, you know.
Speaker 1:And then take that feedback. That's good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and and and. That was something that I would say that we did do a lot. That we did do a lot was when we would ask them for their feedback, to reassure them that they were not going to get in trouble.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Of course they couldn't cuss and all those type of things, but they could really let it rip and there would be no repercussions. Like I wasn't going to withhold a cookie or a brownie or a piece of cake or you know what I mean. Like they, they, they wasn't gonna get in trouble. No treats, you would still feed them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, sure, sure.
Speaker 2:And that again, that opens up the door for them to be able to communicate Right. So, now that they are young adults, it's still some things that they hide. Young adults, it's still some things that they hide. They prefer not to say Sure, but I do believe that the line of communication has been established, that if it is something they have to talk to us about, that it's not an easy conversation, they will say hey, I need you to just listen and hear me out. You may be upset, but don't wild out, just hear me out.
Speaker 2:That has helped a lot, that's really good.
Speaker 3:Can you hear me?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So for me, a couple of things patience I've learned to just be patient with what God is doing. Or I have accepted that I have to be patient with what God is doing, or I have accepted that I have to be patient with what God is doing, even though some things I wanted to see. I didn't see it immediately. But if I just was just patient with God and what he was working with, eventually I began to see a glimpse of what God has shown me about the children, about what we've been teaching them that eventually, if you just be patient and don't rush it, don't get in the way, they'll eventually get it. The other thing is I don't run nothing.
Speaker 1:I don't run nothing, yep, yep. With a young adult you don't run nothing.
Speaker 3:You know what I'm saying? Nothing Tick run nothing, yep, yep. With a young adult, you don't run nothing, you know what I'm saying Nothing, that they're going to make their decision.
Speaker 3:Now, even if you got them sitting down and they're standing up and you push them in the chair, they may be physically sitting down, but they're standing up and they are. You know what I'm saying. I don't run anything. Allow, hand it up in their heart. You know what I'm saying? So I don't, I don't run anything. So, um, allow, allow the. This is what patients part come into. Uh, whatever decisions that they make and they've decided that they really want to make this decision, allow the process to to work itself out and and they will learn.
Speaker 3:Um, they will learn that I wish they were wise and learn from my from my mistakes, rather than being intelligent and learn from they will learn. I wish they were wise and learn from my from my mistakes, rather than being intelligent and learn from their own mistakes. But sometimes they, they choose that particular route and I just have to trust God that that it'll work itself out. My son always tell me this, and this is something I'm learning now. Is that it? There's a point in my life where it's okay to think about me first? My son said Dad, you did it, we're good, take care of you first For a while. As a child, it's always going to be the child, the child, the child, the child, the child, the child, the child. Now that they're old enough, they're saying we can do it, take care of you first and then we'll see about ourselves. So that's something that I think they've taught me and told me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, final thoughts. What other things? If there's anything else that you want to share with parents, that, at any stage that you've had to unlearn, that you feel like is helpful?
Speaker 3:I'll leave this with what I forgot. The guy was watching another podcast and he made this statement. I'm not saying every parent will go through this, but there may be a possibility. There are three stages that most parents go through. The idolized stage this is when they're brand new, up until they're about 10, and they idolize you. There's nothing you can do wrong. You're the superhero. Dad can do everything. They love everything. They love everything you do. They laugh at all your jokes. It's just, they just love you.
Speaker 3:And so that first stage is the idolized stage. Then they become adolescents, around 12 to about 25. This is what he said, so don't quote me on the actual age, but about 12 to about 25, that's a demonized stage. Nothing you say works, nothing you say they like. They can't stand you. You get on their nerve. They wish they can get at their own house, they wish they could leave, and you make me sick and I hate you if you have one of those houses, whatever it may be, but there's nothing you can do.
Speaker 3:The peers have more influence. Tv, social media has more influence, and so you're trying to autocorrect some of the things that they're going and they don't like it. You don't know me, dad. You don't understand me, mom, and that's your ways and this is mine.
Speaker 3:So that second stage, which is an extremely tough stage and that's probably a longer stage, which is the demonized stage so beginning, they idolize you. Second, they demonize you. And then, third is the realized stage so, beginning, they idolize you. Second, they demonize you. And then third is the realized stage they realize, man, mom and dad was right. Typically that happens around 30, because there's a certain maturity level that the brain gets to that they grab it, or they now have children of their own and they realize wait a minute, mom and dad was right. Mom and dad, I apologize, I, mom and dad, was right. Mom, dad, I apologize, I shouldn't have did that, mom and dad. So if you're in that adolescent stage or that young, that early young adult stage, which is the demonized part of the demonized stage, it's okay. Bear with it, be patient, don't panic, don't panic. Be more open to hear than to say Don't panic, don't panic, yeah. Be more open to hear than to say, because at some point they'll realize how much you were for them and how much you care about them.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's good.
Speaker 2:That's good. I don't know if I can come behind that, but Patrick said it well, and don't be OK with not being okay, right, like it's like remember that you're parenting a whole human being. That was assigned to you, right, and it's like I don't know what to do. Like I need help. You know it's okay to admit when you need help. Don't hide in shame and fear and thinking that you know you're the only one that this is happening. To, like, go ahead and admit and search for the help to be able to become a better parent. And I would even say, too, we say parent, but I would say that parenting is kind of along the line of coaching, like you're coaching somebody to a desired destination, right?
Speaker 1:And prayerfully.
Speaker 2:As a parent, you have dedicated your children to the Lord and you want to make sure that you pay attention to those. Pay attention to who they are, so that you can help them get there Right.
Speaker 2:At least be on the road. So if they choose to get off, that's not on you. All right, yeah, every parent that's listening. If you know you have done your part and they chose to take a detour, that does not mean that something is wrong with you. Maybe just an idea or something was presented to the child and they wanted to give it a try. If you are alive and able to kind of get a view of what's going on, just pray Again. Their ears are probably deaf to even hearing what you have to say. So make sure that you have an outlet to be able to express their frustration and a place to ask for help so that you can get through, especially the demonized stage.
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah, one thing that I always say that going through our demonized stage without children is that she learned how to pray so where they at what, uh, what they have taught us. I don't think you know if they taught us how to pray, how to see god.
Speaker 2:Yeah, during that stage oh, you know what too ra um, I think that we think that it's a textbook Like if we do everything, like we have so many apps for everything, yep, yep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for real.
Speaker 2:You can do the one, two, three. It's like throw that out, throw that out your mind and just approach it from a creative canvas standpoint, like let's just see what this is going to become right. Healthy again, healthy approaches, but just know that it's unique. So what may work in your household may not work in my household, because the children's temperaments are different.
Speaker 1:They're different right.
Speaker 2:Right. So yeah, just give space for grace and and be okay with discovering that's good that's really good man.
Speaker 1:This is good um. Thank y'all for sharing your sharing your wisdom, um sharing your experience, your stories, um y'all are doing great. You know, yeah and I say this as an adult child uh, and and uh, I love to see the way you guys parent, like I think you know I get, I get a chance to see it up close a lot and it's like you guys are do everything and I'll say this everything that they are saying, I've seen them do wow I've seen them do.
Speaker 1:They're not just saying this, I have witnessed them do it, and so I just want to affirm your words publicly are not just words, you walk your talk, and that is beautiful and I think God is honoring that so.
Speaker 1:I'm grateful to have a front row view to. I think my parents are awesome examples, but it's always good to see others, you know, from a different perspective and learn from others, and I learned from you guys. So thank you for that man. All right, so Patrick and Shamika, everybody I don't have an applause button, but if I did, I'd push it Again. You can find them on YouTube Instagram. On Instagram His Wife Her Husband, 97 on YouTube His Wife, her Husband, and they have a podcast His Wife Her Husband. They also have a coaching business and they are dope man.
Speaker 1:If y'all need any kind of like, if y'all need help walking through life and marriage, these are the people. These are the people. As you can see, they've had a lot of all of it. They can help you out. They help me out. Just want to appreciate you guys. You guys are special. All right, y'all. We'll be back next week with more Unlearning, parenting and we. Until then, let's keep unlearning together. Thank you once again for listening to the Unlearned Podcast. We would love to hear your comments and your feedback about the episode. Feel free to follow us on Facebook and Instagram and to let us know what you think. We're looking forward to the next time when we are able to unlearn together to move forward towards freedom. See you then.
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