The UnlearnT Podcast
The UnlearnT Podcast is designed to help you gain the courage to change your mind about things you never thought you would change your mind about. Our hope is that you will begin to move towards a life of freedom after hearing stories from individuals who have chosen to unlearn some things in their lives.
The UnlearnT Podcast
Unlearning Parenting: The Elder Millennial Perspective
Erica Ramsey joins RA to discuss the profound transition from career-focused independence to motherhood and how she's navigating this unexpected journey while maintaining her identity and business.
• Success in business doesn't automatically translate to feeling prepared for parenthood
• Becoming a mother in the first year of marriage required a complete mental shift
• The "glass balls vs. rubber balls" approach to prioritizing family and work
• Counterbalance rather than balance is a more realistic framework for working mothers
• Grace is essential both for yourself and your spouse as you navigate new roles
• Children need more spiritual grounding today than previous generations
• Being intentional about what you're imparting to your children when starting a family later in life
• Understanding your child's unique personality rather than imposing your preferences
• Healing from past experiences is crucial before entering marriage and parenthood
• You can change and grow beyond who you've been in the past
If you found this conversation helpful or eye-opening, please share it with someone who might benefit and subscribe to the Unlearned Podcast as we continue to gain the courage to change our minds and experience more freedom.
hello everybody, and welcome once again to the unlearned podcast. I'm your host, ruth abigail aka ra, and this is the podcast that's helping you gain the courage to change your mind so that you can experience more freedom. And I'm here with a very special guest, miss Erica Ramsey.
Speaker 2:Okay, hello, because, because it used to be Johnson. It used to be for a long time, yes, for a very long time, and it is no longer are we wait?
Speaker 1:are we doing the double thing? Are we doing, erica? What are we doing?
Speaker 2:some things I can't say publicly, but what we are doing is just know is ramsey. But if you see johnson just know somewhere it ain't quite ramsey but it's going to be ramsey amen, I understood one thing.
Speaker 1:I refuse. I was like one thing I'm not doing. I'm not changing my gmail, which is smith, and I'm not doing that because too many things connected to it. So it'd be fine. But like you know, new stuff will have new name it's gonna have new name.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm saying okay, old stuff might.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, we don't, we don't, it's just, that's a lot, that's a lot. That's what it is, yeah amen, okay, good all right so erica ramsey, uh, welcome to the podcast, my friend.
Speaker 2:Thank you, glad to be here. Yes exciting.
Speaker 1:It's very exciting um. So we're in this series, as you all know, unlearning parenting and this is a really, really fun uh conversation. We're gonna have different uh people on here, different different conversations and so far we have had a couple um, and so if you haven't, if you haven't had those already, check those out. They're already on um on the platforms. But this particular one I'm very excited about first. First of all, me and Erica have known each other for a very long time.
Speaker 2:Very very, very long time, very long time, yes, very long time.
Speaker 1:Yes, we have much history, let's see. We met in 2000.
Speaker 2:She's going to do it, isn't she? Yeah, she's going to do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we met in 2005,.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Because why was I about to say 10? No, 2005.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 2005. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Something like that.
Speaker 2:Everybody can count. We don't need to add the years.
Speaker 1:No, we don't, we just know 2005. So it's been a while, and so we went to college together.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:And Erica's, older than me, so that you know she graduated. Here she go Now. See, we was on the straight and narrow route and here you just took. You had to take that left, I did. You took a left, I did. That's all right. Yes, I am Not by much, though? No, not at all Not by much at all, although you could. You know there are. There were moments where she didn't know that.
Speaker 2:Um and see, see, see, see, uh Joy, how much editing we doing on this right here.
Speaker 1:I love it y'all. This is going to be good. I'm so excited. Oh, this is going to be fun. So we've known each other for a long time. And, Erica, why don't you just update? I just want to share a little bit about yourself with the people and update them on the newest parts of your life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure, so I don't necessarily know. The people know the oldest parts of my life, so everything's probably new. That's fair, fair point oh you're sleeping on me.
Speaker 2:But yeah, so I'm Erica Ramsey. I own a company called Leap Branding and PR. We do strategic marketing for many different corporations. We started in the entertainment industry. We moved into the legal field representing lawyers not representing lawyers, but doing marketing and branding for lawyers and now we work with hospital systems doing strategic marketing and helping them to set up their B2B organizations. So we do that. We actually have formed entities for them from beginning to end. We do naming, we do all that kind of stuff. Wow. We do all of the market research. We even do the financial projections. We set up the service lines. We do a lot. So it's a fun thing. And outside of that, which is very time consuming, I also am married to a wonderful, wonderful man, ricky, and we have a beautiful son, micah Yay.
Speaker 1:Hey Ricky, and hey Micah for future. So how long have you been married and how long have you been a mother?
Speaker 2:I've been married for two years. Now. We're in our second year and I have been. Well, we're in our second year, I should say, and I have been a mother for five months.
Speaker 1:He'll be six months next week, so six months, okay, so this is where it gets good. So you became a wife and a mother very, very, very quickly.
Speaker 2:Oh, my gosh, yes, so so first of all gosh. This is so public right.
Speaker 1:So what do you say, what do you not say?
Speaker 2:But uh, but uh, this is so public right. So what do you say? What do you not say? But, but it's just me.
Speaker 1:You don't worry about it, it's just me. It's just me, yeah, sure, sure, sure.
Speaker 2:So so we, yeah, so we got married and it's this really big, exciting thing and both of us love to travel and we had all these plans for traveling and we had decided we were going to take up skiing and all these winter sports, because you know, we like water sports but not on the water, so it's like winter sports.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:Another form of water.
Speaker 1:Interesting, so we're like, OK yeah it's really interesting.
Speaker 2:So we had planned this whole trip to Aspen, all these different things we were going to be doing for our anniversary actually that year, and a couple months later, you know, we realized no one was going skiing on the anniversary. We were actually going to be near a hospital or fresh out, and so that's what happened. It was very quick, but you know what, sometimes it's the best way to do it right, because if we had to plan for it with both of our schedules? My husband's a major in the Army. He's finishing up his last year before he retires after 20 years in, and both of us are extremely busy. We are in two locations A lot of times. We have two homes. We're back and forth near base and then back in our home base, and so it's yeah, we would have not planned to have one, and what an unfortunate thing, because who knows if the next one would have been Micah, it might've been something else. So we're grateful.
Speaker 1:I love that perspective. You said it's very possible that you wouldn't have. I mean, when do you find the right time to have a kid?
Speaker 2:I have heard a lot of people say they plan. Then I've heard a lot of people say, even like, you can't plan for it. So you know, I know couples that go into it and like, ok, we're going to do this, and then we're going to do this, and then we're going to plan we're going to have a kid at this time and it's going to work like this. And even when you plan like that, there's so many things you still are not going to be able to plan for. So it's so much that happens in life. It's just like at some. I mean, I equate it to I was so busy working at a point in my life that I really missed the sunlight. You know I was up until night.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, I remember, yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was sleeping like three, four hours a night, and so I just never was in the visible sun, so I was always working so, and so you want to take a break, right? You know I got this project coming up. I go, oh, we got to onboard this client, oh, we got this, you know coming up, kind of thing, and you never take, it's never going to be a right time.
Speaker 1:You have to choose a time, like commit to a time, basically yeah, I think you're right and I, um, I find myself in that same mind frame, so you know so, because my son came differently, he came with the, with the man.
Speaker 2:Um, and so still quickly, very quickly, day one, day one Um and so, uh, we so it.
Speaker 1:but we, you know, we, we talk about having more children and it's like in my head it's like and when and how right? I mean it's, it's real like, it's a real thing, it's a real conversation. You are very both of us are very passionate about the work we do, right, and I want to talk a little bit for a minute just to because, like a lot of women, I mean, again, we won't talk about the exact number of years. But you know, we, we were obviously met in 2005.
Speaker 2:So you can figure this out at college, right? So we are not, you know.
Speaker 1:let's just say we're not close to college age anymore.
Speaker 2:Okay, my doctor says I'm a few years past 19. I go with that.
Speaker 1:Excellent, that means I'm just under that Perfect. Okay, great, so so just a few years past 19 so yeah we are um, a lot of women are starting to start families around the age we are now like that's becoming a trend right right, and I think one of the unique things about that is we have been single for the majority of our life, so like without anything connected to us, right, um, and so we've been moving in that, in that rhythm, in that way.
Speaker 1:And then all of a sudden boom, you know, husband, child, like Whoa. Okay, I want to talk a little bit about the before and after. Like how do you make that adjustment? And like, how are you making that adjustment? And what was your life rhythm, more so before family and now after family?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's really interesting. I'm probably going to answer these questions, maybe out of order, but hopefully I'll touch on all of them eventually. Sure, it won't be long. I don't even remember what I asked you. It won't be long, no go ahead.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, yes, this is how.
Speaker 2:So I think you know I'm obviously a woman of faith and so you pray over something for so long, right? So I for me, specifically in my life, I was very structured a little, you know, just structured in how I wanted things done. I was very disciplined and I did not want to have a child, if at all possible, before I was in a marriage because I, honestly, was not home enough. I knew that it was a great responsibility and I just didn't want I don't want to say it like this, but in my single years I felt like that would be more of a burden than a blessing because it would just be a lot of work. And I have seen so many women manage it, carry it, master it, excel at it and just are amazing at being single moms. I just didn't feel I was on their level. I can't do it like that.
Speaker 2:It looked tough to me, so I didn't particularly want that. So I always prayed for a spouse, a God-fearing, wonderful kingdom husband. And so when God allowed Ricky and I to meet, and, just you know, we entered each other's lives, it was really interesting because it was like, wow, this is great. And the windows are open, and the doors are open and just, oh, we're going to do this, we're going to do that. Just the sky's the limit. And you know, even though you're later in life, right and not late, in life just later, yeah, just later.
Speaker 2:And so, even though you're later in life, you're like I can do it now, like, yeah, let's do it, let's do it. All this stuff I'm waiting to do a balloon deflating. It's like it took me and everybody's process is different when they find out that they're pregnant. But it took me four months to process it Because I had so many plans for marriage that I had literally not planned for pregnancy or for having a child, literally not plan for pregnancy or for having a child. I only prepare for marriage and understanding that one can come with the other, but it doesn't always come with the other, right, because I know so many people that have struggled within marriage and even some outside of marriage who have struggled to have children, and so for me it wasn't an expectation like, oh, back in the day. It was like, oh, you get married, you have kids. We've lived a little longer now.
Speaker 2:We've seen that that doesn't always happen like that. So I did not have that belief that, oh, we're married and, boom, going to have a kid. That is our reality. However, that wasn't previously my belief. It is now my beliefs. It is now so.
Speaker 2:I think that, in saying that, it took me a minute right to really understand how my life was going to be different. So one of the amazing things that happened and someone just brought this to my attention the other day is that I winded up having it wasn't amazing at the time, but I wound up having to decrease my workload immediately, because during the first trimester, they want you to rest, and obviously I was getting four or five hours of sleep each night, but never eight. What is eight hours? Who does that? People who do that? I don't know. I don't know how you do it. So I was never getting eight hours of sleep, and so you have to for the sensitivity of that time of pregnancy, me being later in years, having my first child. And so I went through that process and I had to decrease my workload, which was the first thing, and then it just started to become a spiral right, or an unraveling, or an unlearning for this podcast of what my life used to be and what it used to look like.
Speaker 2:There, never to me and Ricky and I have a really wonderful relationship, but there, never to me was a threat of my life being significantly different because I was married. Me was a threat of my life being significantly different because I was married, because he and I are so similar, we're so similar that it's easy and I say we're different enough. Someone told me this about their husband and it was just fit us. I was like that's so perfect.
Speaker 2:We're similar enough that it's easy, but we're different enough that it's fun. So we got a few differences. That makes it fun, but we're so similar it's just easy going. Yes, so I never had a threat of having this significant change because we were married. It was easy, right, but with pregnancy and with a baby coming, that was significant. So we have a beautiful home and it's full. It was full at the time.
Speaker 2:So to be like it felt like a lot of things were being taken right. So my autonomy at work because I couldn't work as much the ownership of my body, because it was starting to go through things. I didn't understand the positioning of things at home that I had had there for so long because it was just easy and convenient for me to have things situated certain ways. All of that had to shift. We're not just talking about like spaces for a nursery. I mean like okay, now we need the pantry, like finished and fixed. Now we need the closets built out a little differently because we need to put things in different places that they weren't before. And so all of these neatly placed and organized and focused things became not so neatly placed and organized. So the house got a little just messy for a minute and I had to understand that while we were in transition and putting things there, some stuff had to go into storage until we found a place where it would go. And then it was the what is life going to be like being a military family for another year, where we don't always have autonomy of our time, because my husband's a major in the army, so he's a you know officer and he has different things that he's required to do with that, and he's got to do it, and so he's a commissioned officer, and so for me it was like, okay, so how am I going to do this on the times when he's not able to be present with us?
Speaker 2:And I went through a tough spell because when you're single, I'm a very giving person and I lead with my heart, I think, a lot of times, so I'm always focused on other people. I wasn't a selfish single individual. I was always helping someone. I was always doing different things. That was just my thing. But when we had our son, or when we found out we were pregnant with him, it just felt like a lot of liberty was taken. I knew I couldn't go where I wanted to go. When I wanted to go there, there would always be, from now to the end of my life where are we going to do with the baby? Is he coming with us? Is he this, Is he that? And so there was always that thing where I honestly felt like that big, bright future right Of traveling and this and Aspen, I felt it almost diminish and it was hard because that's not true.
Speaker 2:That's not true, but it was hard because what I saw wasn't what I was getting ready to experience. So, all the way through dating and engagement and the wedding and the marriage, I still see it. But as soon as we got pregnant, it was like dream snatched dream snatching pregnancy. And it was hard because I made it all the way to that point, having prayed all that time, right, and you get to the point where you haven't and it's like, yeah, but it's not going to look like what you thought and that was that was so you would think. To put this in perspective, sometimes people meet their spouse and it's like, oh, that doesn't like what you thought. Sometimes you get your house with your son or didn't like what I thought. Sometimes you're like like all that matched. Yes, right, I didn't have a specific vision for that, but if I wanted something, what I had was exactly you know what I wanted.
Speaker 2:So I didn't have an issue with it. But this did not fit. It didn't fit so it was really difficult. So my life now, ironically, with Micah is very different. And his first couple of months here, so fast forward through the pregnancy. His first couple of months here were challenging. We had a difficult delivery, but his first couple of months here were challenging just because I was in the middle of it and every it was weird because I didn't have.
Speaker 2:I was really sensitive those first four months of pregnancy to what was going to happen. When I was in the thick of it it was like I was sensitive to the fact. I told I knew this was like. I knew this is what this was going to look like. I knew this was going to be hard. I knew there might be times where I was going to have to shoulder this alone. I knew this, like it was all of these things. Ok, I knew this was going to happen and it was tough.
Speaker 2:And Ricky was able to take paternity leave, so he was home, you know, for 12 weeks, which was great. He was tremendous help, but he was tremendous help. But then, of course, work you have to go back to work. I thought I was going to be able to take off from work. I'm a business owner. I couldn't. So, in the midst of me recovering from a difficult delivery, having a newborn child for the first time in life, I had tremendous support from my mom and my husband and my mother-in-law, father-in-law, ex-in-law, my dad wonderful. So they were very supportive. A few friends in town, but still I was still having to work month two, month three, month four.
Speaker 1:So I don't feel like my brain got to take a break either.
Speaker 2:So I don't know. I don't know if I answered those questions, but before and during was a huge transition for me. I'm going to say this because I think somebody might identify. Amen, come on, children are a blessing for the Lord, just flat out. I know she sees this where it's heading Period.
Speaker 2:Because, you got to start with the positive Amen, let's do it. Yes, they are a true blessing from God. I know people who would have prayed for a positive test for a healthy baby. True blessing from the Lord, right, but it is okay. So someone told me a mother told me it is okay if you don't enjoy pregnancy. Every woman doesn't enjoy pregnancy. So it's okay If you like it, if you don't like it. They said it's okay, you choose which one. It is for you. And I was middle of the ground. Some stuff was okay, some stuff I was like I can do without this pain. But when you have kids and I'm still in six months into I, still in that first year of him when you have kids, it is okay for you to feel the life change and the life differences.
Speaker 2:I was going to tell you something earlier. This is something I had to realize too, when you talked about the timing. Oh boy, people tell you this all the time. You really recognize it. When you have kids, you have a son. When you have kids, it's really not about us. It's really not about us.
Speaker 2:I had to really think about what it means for him to be born at the time. He was born, not in society, in our lives, my husband and my life. Like, what does that mean that he's being born at this age and this stage, with the wisdom we have, with the knowledge we have, with the resources we have, what does that mean for him and what does that allow for him? And then I had to look at okay, if I had to choose the time, would I have chosen this time For sure? That's a no, I wouldn't have. I mean, somebody might have, but come on, no, that's fair. No, no, no for sure. Like I would not in the first year. We were planning to have kids this upcoming year.
Speaker 2:Yes, so it wasn't like we wasn't, it wasn't on the docket, it was just not in the first year. So, but things happen and God is God. So I think I really settled into that when Micah was born. I spend so much time understanding, like that it's not about me, it's about him. I spend so much time being tuned into his personality and his like, needs, his desires, his wants than I have anything else. And I think that's interesting, because I wasn't necessarily brought up that way, right, like I feel like I wasn't a mom back then, I was a kid. Sure, my vantage point is different, but I feel like growing up I heard a lot more parents like stifling the kid and like really trying to make the kid fit them as opposed to understanding the child and what that child might actually be saying, wanting, needing in their own language, and that's hard to do. I understand why people didn't do it because they got to work.
Speaker 1:It's a full time job, it's very hard, it's hard, it's hard to do and especially, especially, when it wasn't your experience. So it is this shift, and I think it's a healthy shift. I do think that there are plenty. I would say probably more to learn about parenting from our parents' generation than to not learn. I think most of it was healthy, I agree. I think I think there most of it was healthy. I think I think we try to change some of it and it's not going well, like we don't need to do that.
Speaker 1:Right, like our generation is like no, we know none of this, none of this. Take that away, you know, and it's like well, pause, like no, let's remember there were some things, but I love what you just said paying attention to who the child is Not not that they're yours, like they are, but they are, they are their own and they're coming into their own and you're not always going to have them, and so that's something that that we've at least I've been thinking a lot about, that we've, or at least I've been thinking a lot about. You know, arson is 10 and just, I mean he's. You could see he came, I came into his life when he was seven and you can see the change, like he is so different and there are some things that are similar, but there are some things that are very different. And, like he's, he's matured in some ways and you know, he's had more of this, less of that Like and so, but it's it's not, and it's not just a steady pathway, it's a we're. Some days we're negotiating this and some days it's this, it's.
Speaker 1:I thought you liked that, last week he did, this week he doesn't, and I'm it's a constant learning of who he is and who he's becoming. And so, to your point, this our lives are also. We also have these responsibilities. And so how do you, how do you mentally balance right now, you, how do you mentally balance right now, like you're that kind of like um, that thinking around Micah and what, like understanding and trying to understand him and learn him, even even as a six month old, with your responsibilities as a business owner, like it's and and and and. Then we can even bring responsibilities as a wife too, because that's a different thing. You, it's and and and, and. Then we can even bring responsibilities as a wife too, because that's a different thing.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying? Let's just be real.
Speaker 1:Like that's a whole different thing.
Speaker 2:I think like people people.
Speaker 1:Wife and mother are two different things.
Speaker 2:That's two different roles, that you have to, you have to constantly figure out how to harmonize those Right.
Speaker 1:So let's talk about that for a little bit. How, how are you managing all that? How to harmonize those?
Speaker 2:right? Yes, it is, so let's talk about that for a little bit.
Speaker 1:How are you managing all that?
Speaker 2:So, gosh, some days well, some days not well. Yeah, but I like I. There are two things I've really focused in on. There's a book called the One Thing. Ooh, I'm going to forget the writer, the author. It's a New York Times bestseller, so you'll find it if you type in the one thing on Amazon. Joy will come up with it here in a second. Okay, thank you, I appreciate that. So it's the one thing, and I was given this book by my big brother mentor and he gave it to me. There's a chapter in the book that talks about counterbalance and balance and how balance is not really a thing that's not achievable. Yeah, you counterbalance, right, you swing one direction and then you swing back, like there's a period you're having to focus on this and you swing back this way and you focus, you swing back this way, and it talks about how you have to consider the things in your life as glass and rubber balls.
Speaker 2:And they're all in the air, right, they're all in the air. And you're trying to keep the balls from falling. Yes, the reality is something is going to fall, right. And the book explains drop the rubber, not the glass. I like that, I love it, okay. So for me, micah is glass Right, ricky is glass Right and in some ways my, my company, my work can be rubber.
Speaker 2:It's not always because it pays bills, but sometimes I mean, in the grand scheme of things, a priority list, it's not higher than them, right. And so I recognize there was years ago, when Scandal was in its heyday, the TV show, shonda Rhimes, the creator, writer, all these things. She spoke at a graduation ceremony I'm going to forget for what college and she made mention of something. She said she has two children that she adopted and she said people ask her all the time how does she, you know, enjoy becoming a mother, how does she do that and be a showrunner and be a this and a that and the other? And she said, when my child was having their first day of school, I was on set seeing the last scene for the last show that whatever actor was going to create, and then she was like, when it was the opening whatever for another show. She was missing a dance recital for it.
Speaker 2:Like there's no way to do everything and it's still okay. And it's still okay. Like, in what world or what society or what dream are we living? Or believing that every single thing we put our hand to we have the capacity to run efficiently? In the same way, like there's no one that can do that Right. Where did that lie come?
Speaker 1:from.
Speaker 2:I think it's a desire, honestly Okay. I think it's an internal desire that what I put my hands to, I want to do well. What I commit to, I want to show up for what I, you know, position myself in. I want to make sure I give all of me to or it.
Speaker 2:You know it represents and identifies me. Whatever my name is on, you know, comes back to me. But again, Micah is a rubber ball. So there are times, there are times I'm in meetings and you know I'll take a meeting and it's like, oh okay, well, you know he's resting, so I'll just jump on a call real quick, Right. And then he gets up, Right, Yep. And so for all of those who have meetings with me and I say excuse me just one moment, you just give me just one moment. That's, that's where I'm going. I'm going to run and get a screaming child. And for those that see me mute and unmute and mute and unmute, it's because I'm probably feeding him right in front of the camera, which is why it's all. And there are times that that happens. There are other times where I have to cancel meetings or I have to move a meeting.
Speaker 2:I'm six months in, I'm still figuring it out, but grace is such a powerful thing. Yes, To your point about being a wife and a mother. Grace is something. This is not what this podcast is about, but I will say this yes, Grace is something that I learned in marriage. Yes, I knew the grace of God. I thought I knew the grace of God. I thought, I thought but grace is something that I learned in marriage and we were actually we did a check-in for each. We decided each anniversary we would check in with we have two pastors that really pour into us and pastor us, and so one pastor, but the other one loves us and used to pastor us, so we used both of them, but we have them pour into us. And so one pastor, but the other one loves us and used to pastor us, so we used both of them, but we have them pour into us. So when we hit anniversary, we decided to go and let's just do a session just to make sure we're good, Everything is straight. And so we're doing the session. And you know, I happen to make some things funny just because it's easier to say and to cope with, so I'm joking around, but obviously they know us, so they know what I'm saying when I'm not saying it. And this particular pastor goes into this speech about grace grace, giving each other grace and I was like, wow, I thought I knew what that was and, because of how it was presented, I went and did some more.
Speaker 2:You know, looking into that, and I feel the same way about having a child. Yes, it's not just grace for your spouse, it's grace for yourself. You know, I don't always feel my best. There was a time I didn't fit. I don't currently fit maternity clothes or my previous clothes, so I wear what I fit and I am not. I'm not used to that. I'm not used to, I'm not used to my body not responding to me doing different things. And the crazy part is I can't always blame it on pregnancy, because I'm also getting older. So I don't know. My hip went out the other day and I was like I don't know which one it was. Is it age? Is it you don't?
Speaker 1:know, I don't know.
Speaker 2:So it's really grace, and that's hard. I'm not perfect at that. I'm not perfect at giving, don't know, I don't know. So it's really grace, and that's hard. Yeah, I'm not perfect at that. I'm not perfect at giving grace to myself, that's right. I'm not perfect at that. So I do beat myself up when I have to move a meeting. I beat myself up more if he cries more than three minutes, which doesn't harm him at all. Yes, it's like he's crying. It's nothing wrong, he'll be okay. There's nothing harming him or injuring him. He's fed, he's changed. So I do, it gets to me. But then I have to remember I was never created to do everything. That's why we have a father who is supernatural. Because we're natural, we're human. We can only do a little, but what we do, if we submit it to the Lord, he'll make it plenty.
Speaker 1:And so at the end of the day, I have to just believe that what I did that day was enough and I'll start again tomorrow and do better tomorrow. So that is uh. I think grace is a, it's a. It is a tricky concept, it is not, it is not easy to grasp, and I'm glad that you, I'm glad you said what you said, because I think especially people women in particular that are high achievers, um struggle with grace for themselves, and then some, and then, and then in turn, if you don't have good grace for yourself, you can't have good grace for others.
Speaker 1:And so you know the relational capital sometimes suffers as a result of that. And so you know that. So it's such an important thing to understand and I think, uh, I'm with you. I think I understand grace at a level I have not understood it before having these two humans attached to me right, Like it's like oh wow, and not, they're not just attached to me, I'm attached to me, right. Like it's like oh wow, and not, they're not just attached to me, I'm attached to them, right.
Speaker 1:It is a, it is a both, and because they have to have grace for me and um and uh, and because of me, like they need I, cause I, you know, I am who I am and all day like, and I, it's just, it's just what it is. And so I think, and especially, like you know I don't know how this was for you, but I know like I'm used to catching on to things pretty quickly got it, got it, got it. Like no, not this, like not this, ain't no, got it. I mean, it has been a journey and I think it's very humbling and I'm grateful for that because they are just.
Speaker 1:God uses different moments to humble us and I think especially and I keep coming to this because, again, I think there are a especially and I keep coming to this because, again, I think there are a lot of women who are in this position either, who are single and will be married with children here in the next few years, or that's a desire that that that will probably have, that that may or may not happen, um, or are in this stage where we are, where it's like fresh and new in your life, um, but it is a um for for those of us who have, who have, I'm not going to say mastered that's not the right word, but got very comfortable and um thrive at some level in our single season.
Speaker 1:Um, you know, you're kind of. You're kind of in this rhythm of success. You're kind of hitting the mark Okay, cool, I got it, I got it, I got it. And then you get to this entirely new place and it's like where are my marks?
Speaker 2:Because I don't even know where they are anymore right Well marriage doesn't have a trajectory.
Speaker 2:You can just have a good kid, and that's the thing. If you want to move up in business, whether you own it or you work for someone in a company, there are steps to take. If you want to grow your company, there are steps to take. There are so many different things that have a step-by-step or at least a measuring stick, correct, if you bring in this amount, if you make this amount in the company I mean if you work for a company you hit these milestones there's a measuring stick.
Speaker 2:There's a pattern, there's a path, there's a measuring stick. There's not one for marriage, because every single marriage is different, every single relationship, every child is different. And so for me and I say this a lot marriage is an institution. I say that for two reasons. Because I say this a lot marriage is an institution. I say that for two reasons because I need a measuring stick. So marriage is an institution.
Speaker 2:There are certain things in marriage that will happen to every marriage that growing together, resources, whether you combine them or you leave them separate, that's a conversation, doesn't matter how you do it, still a conversation, right? That's something you go through the growing together, the changing one or another, the interest. There are things that are common to it. So I have a measuring stick now, right, so that's the institution part. Marriage, college institutions we may go through different colleges, different places, different institutions, join different groups, study a different topic, but there's still certain things you're going to have at every college. You got to go to class, you got your general education requirements, you got all these things. That's common. So I for myself, found some common ground with marriage to say, okay, this is the common stuff that happens when we hit the common thing of finances. How did we make it through that? Now I have a measuring stick. When we hit the common thing of you know how we're going to raise our child, how did we make it through that? Now we got a measuring stick.
Speaker 2:So for me it was a healthy way of seeing okay, we're going through similar things that everyone goes through. Everyone's going to go through those things completely differently, but how did we make it through what we went through? And then, as a person, as you said, coming from a single world for much of my life into marriage, who may have hung my hat on different success metrics, that's something I can measure. It just means to me we're doing okay, we're doing okay. Everybody's going through. It's people who think you're going to beat out certain things. You probably will, but beating it out doesn't mean you didn't go through it, you did. You just beat it Like you just didn't have it, didn't have the impact on you that it could have. And so those are different things. I mean some things never enter certain marriages, but there will always be some common things that just coming together as two people, marriage is different from having like a roommate in life. But even if you have a roommate in life there, are certain things.
Speaker 1:There's similar things. Yeah, some things are similar. That's right, you're gonna, yeah, so that's how I do it.
Speaker 2:I think it's healthy to do it that way, because there is no trajectory and you can feel lost, like I remember speaking to a young lady who was really fresh in marriage and she was like I wish there was like a handbook or a rule book or like what am I supposed to like?
Speaker 2:And I, literally, at that time I wasn't married. I was just talking to her and I said, hey, just listen, they married you. Be you, yeah, as you're being. You figure it out, but don't try to change you to fit a mold, correct. That's another thing that we try, ricky and I try not to do. We're pretty I think we're decently good at it that we have determined that there is not a specific way this is supposed to work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, no, you know, I was reflecting on that earlier of just like that's everybody's different. So every time, you know, every single marriage is different because it's different, simply different people. Every single parenting experience is different because you're, you got different kids. That's right. You know, even in the same family I love, there's a psychologist essentially said no parents have no kids, have the same parents Because you know, if you all have have other children, you'll be in a different space than you were with Micah. They're meeting different parents than Micah had, right.
Speaker 2:And same for us.
Speaker 1:We won't like our, our, our next children won't be meeting the same parents that our son sees now. And so it will be different, and so there's something beautiful about that and very scary.
Speaker 2:Like I mean because you know, you just don't know.
Speaker 1:So, with that, what makes you? I don't know. I realize we're parents, are two different children, because yours is you can't talk yet, but, um, mine can a lot, and so, uh, what are the things, though, that make you nervous? Like, what makes you nervous and I don't know? When I think about that, I think about just in this world that we are living in, um, and just the different levels of exposure, access, all of that that naturally come um, some which we can control and some we can't. Um, and what that looks like, and how you, what, what, what, what you may have or may feel like. You need to unlearn about how to manage that reality as you figure out, you know, as you walk through parenting with.
Speaker 2:Micah, I think before we had Micah. While we were pregnant, I wrestled with having a child in the world today. I really wrestled with that. It felt like why in the world would you want to bring a child into this type of society?
Speaker 1:Because it is wild.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I really wrestled with that and I think, gosh, somebody came to me. I have so many brilliant mothers, just veterans. You know, kids of 50 years old, you know, just veteran mothers, and one of them came to me and said all of us felt like that when we raised our kids.
Speaker 2:The world was always worse than what we had when we had our children, and it will continue to feel like that. I think the other thing that made me nervous our pastor, apostle Bertha Terry. She has a book called Invisible Warfare and she talks about how in that book that the warfare against the parents is really against the family. It's invisible warfare against the family. It is really against the family. It's invisible warfare against the family. It's really against the children. Like the enemy will come against our adversary, our spiritual adversary will come against the parents in order to impact the kids, because he's already impacted us. The impact he did to us happened as kids and now he's trying to impact our kids and so anything that comes against our marriage comes against our person, it's to to impact our kids, and so anything that comes against our marriage comes against our person comes it's to negatively impact our children. And, as a really interesting concept and I think, a truth and I took that to heart also makes me nervous, a part of the thing in the book is that we have to serve God with our children more, like they need more of him than what we had, because they are experiencing things we never had to experience. Life is much different for them than it is for us, and what we had they need more of, not less of. They need more of. And so how do you cultivate that relationship with your kid than to have more than what you have?
Speaker 2:I think I have a pretty strong relationship with the Lord, but it still makes me nervous that I'm not doing enough for him. Am I reading the Bible enough to him? He's six months old, but at what point do you make it to where it's a part of his nature? Do you make it to where it's a part of his nature, like at what point is kingdom a part of culture and not just church? So actually making that kingdom a culture for him?
Speaker 2:When we get up, we pray to the Lord. When we read during the day, not just at night, we have more than just a scripture. We talk to the Lord, we communicate. When something happens, we say let's pray about it. When does that become culture? We have all of these different customs that travel with different ethnicities or different groups of people. That is cultural for them. So kingdom is a culture, and we don't always use that with our children. So that keeps me on a verge of nervousness. Am I doing enough? Because there's only so many hours in a day and that's the whole rubber glass ball right, yes, did he get fed? Is it clean? Right, right, right, is he still alive? Correct, okay, congratulations, great day, great day, great day. No, but sometimes that's literally it's like I loved him.
Speaker 2:I fed him, I cleaned him, I hugged him, I played with him, I tried to teach him something and then you know, that's all because, on the other hand, it's still work and wife, and it's a lot, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:You know I, um, as a I don't, I don't know, I I've told I don't. I don't give advice to anybody around this. I've only been in it for well, you know.
Speaker 2:Same.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Amen. So what I'm about to say is not that, but just my experience to that point of this. Will they grasp the kingdom culture Right and, you know, particularly like juxtaposed against what they're exposed to out here?
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:And I have been, and so in our case, right, he's. He's not my natural child, so he's he has a whole life. I'm unaware of Right and I was not a part of, and learn different things from different people that I don't have a unaware of Right and and I was not a part of, and learn different things from different people that I don't have a relationship with Right. So he's coming in already with stuff, right and so for, on my end, like I don't necessarily have a fresh start. And then even from me and my husband as as a married couple, it I mean, I mean, even though that's his father as a married couple, we are starting from square seven, not square zero.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:So this idea of like, how do we manage what he's coming with, with what it is that we want to try to impact and instill and I have been this is where I feel like the grace of God comes in the middle of parenting. That I have seen, at least in our story, is God has his devotion. As a 10-year-old to the Lord, I attribute to God more than more than us Wow, wow, wow.
Speaker 1:I am constantly amazed at how, how sensitive him, as a child, is to the voice of God, the presence of God. I mean, I can't. I would take me too long to really narrate a couple of particular stories. Me too long to really narrate a couple of particular stories that I mean, left me just stunned.
Speaker 1:And he has not necessarily been in church or you know in in that world for a consistent period of time as long as he has been here. But he, totally honest, he got us more involved in church, more consistent. We're there multiple times a week. My husband is at church more than I am doing stuff and just like, but it's because of him, it's because of his desire.
Speaker 2:That's so awesome.
Speaker 1:And we've only had him as a couple for coming on three years, and so it just it is just a testament to children are just open. They are way more open than we are, which you know, and so, like god, I think the keeping, because, lord knows, my husband and I are very, we're very human, I mean we're just very human, you know, and um, we love the Lord, but we're human.
Speaker 1:We don't lean to the human, to the other side, we lean human. Okay, and so I know that there is, like our it's as far as routine and, like you know, traditions and all that stuff. When it comes to um-filled household, I mean, we're not very consistent in all that, if I'm just being honest, but that has not impacted his desire and love for God. You know what I'm saying, and so I see that I'm like God. Thank you, Because, man, we suck a lot of times. No you don't, we do.
Speaker 2:No, you don't. It's just a part like this. It's just a part like this.
Speaker 1:It's the balls in the air. It is it is the balls in the air and I, you know, but I think about my parents and some things that we did and just like the routine and consistency and all this stuff and like I'm like we don't like it, it ain't. It's choppy over here, you know, and I'm not really sure how that's impacting him. But then it's like God, since these little reminders like no, I'm, I'm actually I'm filling in so many of your gaps you don't even realize it.
Speaker 1:it's like you don't even know he be saying some crazy stuff. This kid where you're like. First of all, where did you learn that? Where you?
Speaker 1:learn that the other day he randomly sent me a prayer, like a prayer on YouTube. He just sent it to me. He finds he's like and he calls Miss Abby. He's like Miss Abby, come in, you know, I sent you something. I was like, okay, I was on the phone. I said I'll look at it when I get off the phone. And of course I didn't. I I'm way too, I can't keep stuff. So I looked at him on the phone and I realized it was a prayer. I was like this little 10 year old boy just sent me a random prayer Just going through YouTube. Crazy, random. Where'd that come from? Really, really sweet. And he'll just have these moments. Who ask these questions? He'll, you know, and just the curiosity, the conviction, and that doesn't come from us and our routines and teaching and all of that Anyway, you know.
Speaker 2:I asked myself this because obviously the point in time I remember as a child, I was probably five or six. But where my memory actually can go back and remember is my. I think I was five or six and I just remember my mom just keeping us really active in church and doing things and coming home and praying with us and reading to us and this and the other. And ironically, she does the same thing with Micah she prays with him, she reads to him, she teaches him and I'm like, thank you Jesus. And so I.
Speaker 2:But listen, gosh, every season of parenting, every season of life, every season of living is completely different. Before her they were having children at 13, 14, like my grandmother's age, you know and then that dynamic they moved in, they were getting young, you know, married young in their 20s or whatever. And then now we have you know present day dynamics which did both because we've had some 13, 14. Anyway, so we have a little bit of both, but back then most people it was more common to work a job than own a job yeah, so most people had a nine to five, stressful, strenuous, but come home and I left it there. Correct, right, whereas when you have a company. Six o'clock is not always a clocking out time Come on.
Speaker 2:You just can't always clock out. That's right, there's stuff that has to be done.
Speaker 2:Yes, and so when you have that still on your mind, when you didn't get to get in your car and leave, and leave it there, and then you go back in, you sit at the work and you put it back on yes, when you didn't get to do that, or you know, sometimes you come home even with that kind of a job, you have a conversation like oh, it just happened at work, and then I'm done with it. It just doesn't happen, and so it's really difficult then to compare the two ages to me to me because I was a latchkey kid.
Speaker 2:Both of my parents had jobs like that, so we did a lot on our own. They did what they could, but then also it was come home, do homework, pray, bed, and on the weekends they had more time to pour into us, whereas I'm trying to, and they did some during the week too. I'm not saying that, but I just mean he's six months, we're keeping him home, he doesn't go to a daycare, and so whoever is there with me helps me pour Right, and when it's just me, I pour Right, but we're doing it all day, so I try to infuse. Hearing this, hearing you say that, just reminds me of the power of God. Like I read something on Facebook. I'm never going to remember what it exactly said, but the sentiment of it was all of you parents that are trying to. Oh, something about picking the right school in the right district. In this sense says you're taking things out of God's hands.
Speaker 1:Ah, yes, I think I've seen that.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yes, that God can literally do that with your child, wherever they are. Like, yes, do your best to positively impact, do your best to give them what you can, right, but then let God be God. And what you just said, that just completely, was like, okay, that helped me because it's like you know what I'm just I'm doing my best. I've got to settle in the fact that I'm doing my best and then I have to let God be God.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's it, that's it. It is literally the only thing you really can do, because everything else is a is a. It's a false sense of control.
Speaker 1:And and so we're really just spinning our wheels, not going anywhere. Just make yourself tired by continuing to do that. You said something earlier. It's not going to come back. You said something earlier that man I wanted to kind of come back to, because it kind of hit and it's not coming. I'm not going to spend any more time, that's okay. So, but yeah, I what? This might be a little weird question, but and you may have addressed it earlier what things about you have you kind of had in the back of your head, like I wonder if this is going to change about me. Am I going to become more of this or less of this as a result of being a mom, and especially again being a mom a little unexpectedly so?
Speaker 1:really soon right and you just weren't prepared for it Is. Are there things about you that you're like?
Speaker 2:I really like this about me, and I kind of think it might change went through two healing classes so one virtually one in person, two different leaders and went through a series at our church. That was very helpful. So before I got married I was very much in a more centered place than I have ever been in my life. That could be maturity, but I attribute a lot of it to those healing journeys. So I feel good about who I am and where I am and I don't feel like that changes with a child. I feel like you impart that into your child. But I am very careful that gosh. There's certain things I really want him to you know, if you think about a documentary when he gets older and what he says about his mom, that's what I focus on. I want him to say my mom hugged me, kissed me and every night told me she loved me, like my mom was my biggest cheerleader. You know, you hear those things that people say when they get in the mic and you're like I want to be that mom.
Speaker 2:You know. So I'm very intentional with him. I have this thing I do with him, and I started doing it when he was a baby Baby. He's still a baby, sure, baby, baby. It's so funny because he's bigger now and I'm like I want that he's still a baby. It's weird, anyway, when he was a baby baby, I do this every single time.
Speaker 2:He starts crying and I wipe his tears and I say mommy wipes the baby's tears every single time, mommy wipes baby's tears, because I want him to have that internalized in him that you can come to your mom, that you can come to, and there's just little things I add into him, just things like that that I hope he'll probably remember something negative. I don't know, maybe he'll. I hope he doesn't. I hope that's not reality, but I had a friend tell me that, no matter what you do with your child, they're going to end up in therapy talking about you, and that's actually freeing, not really scary, it's freeing because it's like, true, you can do your best, it's true. I hope, though, he will have so much positive to say about us, about how he's raised, about what we did with him, that he has those little moments that he can take with him.
Speaker 2:One of the nervous things that I probably should have mentioned earlier is we're older. At the age I am now, my parents. I was 20 years old with my parents or close there. I was in high school when they were my age.
Speaker 1:That's surreal, he's six months.
Speaker 2:Man look. So when you look down the line I go. What can he take with him if I'm not with him? That's nervousness for me.
Speaker 1:Pause. Hold on, I'm sorry, hold on. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off, but hold on no, go ahead, go ahead that is very real. Um, that's very real. I'll be honest, I don't know that I've heard it articulated quite that way from uh. Parents who start their parenting journey a little older what say it? Say it again what you have.
Speaker 2:Something to the effect of what can I give him that he can take with him if I'm not with him?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, when did you start thinking about that?
Speaker 2:Immediately yeah, immediately, because my husband's retiring for the first time 20 years into military. He'll obviously retire again. He's not going to stop working at the age we are now, but that's the first retirement, all right. So we're at the age now where we're looking towards the second retirement, and again at our age. Our parents are still, to us, young. When he gets our age, with God's grace, we'll still be here.
Speaker 2:We pray all the time. Lord, I want to see him through high school and college and marriage and kids. I want to see him do that. But life is life and none of us know. We're life heads and because we're at this age and he's at that age, lord, what can we give him in case we're not with him? We've been very intentional every step of the way. I'm always pouring in because I have seen some of the best people. I don't necessarily consider myself. I think people see other people. Oh, you always think somebody else is just the best you know. So you don't always see yourself like that, but I've seen some of the best people leave here with kids that are six and ten and this and that, and I watch their children, I watch their spouses and I'm like gosh and all you can do is pray with the hope and faith that you'll be here to see it. You're going to live to see it. But in case God's will is different, what do I give him?
Speaker 1:now that he'll have later. And you're making me's. My mom is turning 75 this year and I one thing that both her and my father, they were very, very comfortable talking about their death with us, very young, with me, particularly because I'm the oldest. They would say it a lot. They would. You know, to this day, my dad will send a text message if he's in the air. You know, this is where all the stuff is Da-da-da-da-da-da-da Right. This is what he sent me an email one time, I think I was in college. This is what he sent me an email one time, I think I was in college.
Speaker 1:This is what I want a funeral to be like. Um, this is the people I want. These are songs I want. This is the type of casket I want. I mean, I have it down to the detail. He, this is. This has been a recurring and I wonder I think this is partly just because this is their just um, I think their faith is driving most of it um, and but I wonder if some of it, particularly for on my mom's side, was the reality, is I don't know how long, because I'm not 20 something when I'm having you. You know, I've never even asked for that I'm don't know, but that perspective is so rich to me because and I'm so grateful that that's why that's not the only thing you can leave with your children, obviously. But right.
Speaker 1:But it is a significant thing to your point when, when you're a child and you have no concept, it doesn't even occur to you that that is possible until a certain time in your life, that that is possible until a certain time in your life. But the reality is for older parents that that that will, that can. There's a higher probability that it comes more quickly than for parents who have children younger. That's just, or we could all live to see 95.
Speaker 2:We could, we don't know I mean, you know how.
Speaker 1:How are you going to be at 95? And let's be honest, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Because you probably still can't do that. And somewhere in Italy with the other 95-year-olds. There you go.
Speaker 1:Right, all two of them. So it's just that's such a rich. I love that you said that. I think that's real and I think that it's a healthy space for a lot of older parents to really be like. Space for a lot of older parents to really be like how can I be intentional about pouring into my children as much as I can without knowing? Now, that that's healthy, I think, at any point, because, like you say, you never know, you don't know, right, but particularly with older children, anyway, I just that is really good.
Speaker 2:Well, I think it's really more about focusing on the child themselves and so and not really my own or our own mortality right, so really focusing on him, and the thing that I really want more than anything is for him to be prepared. That's it.
Speaker 1:I don't necessarily so my mother did so much what your father does.
Speaker 2:Ricky's parents, because I'm the baby, but Ricky's parents because he's the oldest did what your parents do to him making sure he's ready. He's prepared. My mom really just sends us check-ins. Do you know where this is? Do you know where that is? Do you remember what we told you about this? And then we have to kind of spit back out where those things are, just so we know when things happen. But again, her thing in doing that is for us, when this, if this happens, when this happens, we don't want you, stressed, we don't want you. So we're doing something similar for him Life insurance for him, for us, for this, Like, what do we have in place? A trust, a this or whatever it is that we can do at whatever age? How do we have it set up so that he doesn't have to worry If something happens? Does he have a custodian? Does he have a? The God's honest truth. We fully believe and have hope. We'll be here until he has kids.
Speaker 2:But so can we prepare him as much as possible. And so preparation is one thing for him, but the second thing is, how do we establish in him Right?
Speaker 1:No matter how many siblings or if he has siblings.
Speaker 2:How can we instill in him a sense of self and a sense of not really autonomy, but, gosh, just self-awareness, self, just pride. What can we instill in him that he can stand on his own and that if he's in this world, we know he's okay and we're proud of him. And we know he's okay Because the world is crazy and there are things we cannot protect him from. It's really great to understand the limits of your control, so you can place things in God's hands that belong there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But the things that we can control, we really do try to, and so that's just one. We just try to be intentional about that.
Speaker 1:So let's end on this. I want you to just talk to people who could be in your shoes, in my shoes. They're a little older, had an established life before, kind of got their world turned around real quick with this addition of multiple humans that they now have to be aware of every day, right, um? So what are some things that you would encourage them? And I don't know. Okay, I'm going to combine these two questions.
Speaker 1:I did one you talked about this healing journey, but maybe this is, maybe it's gonna be one in two, one one, one of the same question and how you, uh, a lot of the things about yourself you have kind of learned to accept and understand and like love, um, and that's not something you really, but it's because you were going through this, this healing journey what, how would you encourage women, uh, who are headed to this part of their life, to heal, and what, what things would you encourage them to unlearn of, like, just to prepare for what might be coming?
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, I want to make this so quick.
Speaker 1:Boy, that was heavy.
Speaker 2:First thing I will say to anyone, any woman who is out there, who is successful, who is thriving, who is striving, who is single or dating or getting married, is married. Whoever you are, if you're out there and you believe the best of yourself and that you're amazing because you are, and that you are excellent and you've got your teeth crossed and your eyes dotted and everything is buttoned up, it's not.
Speaker 1:Good Release that. Yes, yes, absolutely Sincerely, it's not.
Speaker 2:It's not. There are things that we have grown up with that we cannot see. They are blind spots. We have roots, what we're taught in one of our healing classes trees and fruit, and a lot of the roots allowed us to create things in our tree to hold the fruit. But there were some roots we never needed, should have never experienced, went through and did the best we could and we have created these trees around these roots that we no longer need and we have personalities and attitudes and nuances and things that come up because of roots that we don't need right now. Wow, quickly.
Speaker 2:There was a toxic environment that I had as a child in some instances, and I didn't realize that the communication styles that were around me were because of the toxicity. I took those communication styles into a healthy environment and didn't understand why people didn't receive me. But when I became another version of myself even before healing, another version of myself and I went back into that environment, I recognized it was toxic. But I also recognized why and because I didn't have the, why I didn't need the toxicity. That's something you have to unlearn. I didn't need it because the reason wasn't there. It was toxic because of this. But if I don't have a this. I didn't need it because the reason wasn't there. It was toxic because of this. But if I don't have a this, I don't need to be toxic. They probably don't either, but they're trying to make it through right, that's a tree and a root. So my thing is there's so many of us that do that.
Speaker 2:I talked to so many women who are on a relationship journey that I was just recently on, just came out of in marriage that always believed they were good and it's always the other person and you are good and you're amazing, but you got some roots that you don't really need the trees. You have fruit that's hanging that people are trying to show you are not as healthy as you think. That's good and it's a blind spot and you can't see it because who you are not as healthy as you think. And it's a blind spot and you can't see it because who you are, you've been able to use who you are to get to where you are. But you could also do it differently. And I use this example not to embarrass anyone and say anything, but because it helped me in life.
Speaker 2:There was an instance where I was helping a young lady who was a really phenomenal track runner and we got to a point where they were trying to change the way they run. This has happened to multiple young ladies that I know, by the way, but they were trying to change the way that they ran. And how they ran before was amazing, like record breaking and you know getting awards and certificates and all the things. But when they got into another setting they couldn't run like that and what they were trying to teach them was hey, in this setting, if you run like that, you're going to hurt yourself. You got to change your gait. Cece Winans just went to vocal class like for the first time, and the woman had been singing. Who thinks CeCe Winans just went to vocal class like for the first time and the woman been singing?
Speaker 2:Who thinks CeCe Winans need a vocal class.
Speaker 1:That's real.
Speaker 2:She wants to not hurt her voice.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Hey, at this age and stage, if you keep doing that, it's going to injure this. So I think, as we grow as women, when you get to a certain stage in life, you have to realize if you keep doing it like that, like you've done for 20 years and 10 years and five years, it's going to injure something and it could very well injure a relationship. Yeah, and so if this is what you're pursuing, or your child, this is what you're pursuing and what you want, healing I cannot say enough about it Offline. I'll tell you which classes I went to. I recommend everyone join at least one and be intentional about about being on your healing journey. And then your second question was about Uh-huh Unlearning Like what things would you?
Speaker 1:encourage women to unlearn Both like as they are making the shift, like it would be helpful for you to unlearn these things if this is a shift in your life you expect to make.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh gosh, I'm going to have to. We're going to have to do that on another podcast, but let me, let me just say this, because, listen, that could have started at the beginning of this one no-transcript. Somebody else might.
Speaker 1:Interesting. That's really a saying.
Speaker 2:Somebody else might. Yeah, something random that you're like. Why is that an issue Right Could be random that you're like. Why is that issue Could be? Men don't always identify as frequently issues in women, unless there's some kind of, like I said, toxicity there. Don't always identify as frequently issues in their partners as much as women do with them and it's very helpful to know that just because it's not spoken doesn't mean it's not seen, and so I would unlearn the fact that we have to be teachers in all settings, because you don't have to.
Speaker 2:You could really just introduce yourself to people and let people be people, as there being people encourage, support and pull out their best self in a way that's not teaching, preaching or like scolding. I think there's a level of being best friends with my husband that was really helpful for that. This is going to be so funny. Gosh Lord, have mercy, but I'm going to say it anyway. I watch a lot of different shows.
Speaker 2:Okay, I watch old movies from 19,. Whatever 18s and on up. I watch a lot of different shows. Yes, okay, I watch old movies from 19,. Whatever 18s and on up. I watch a lot of shows. Yes, the show I lean on before I got married, before I was dating my spouse who's the Boss?
Speaker 1:I love that show. Love that show. Don't ask me why I love that show. Excellent show, I love that show.
Speaker 2:I love it too. The thing that I really loved he was from Brooklyn, I think. She was an ad exec in Connecticut and she never tried to change him. She never tried to change him. She loved him as he was. There were times she was a little embarrassed, but she never told him to stop being him. It was the most unique thing and I was like she loved this man for who he was. I will never forget that. I took that with me and I said, lord, if you send me someone, help me to see who they are, not who. I think. Oh, this would fit better with me, I think you need to be, or this would be an easier thing.
Speaker 2:I think it doesn't have to be easier. It doesn't have to be Let me love this person because, guess what? I'm asking you to do that for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right, I'm asking you to love me as I am. So we have to unlearn the fact that we have to teach everybody to be who they need to be. We don't have to make them over actually, we can always see better in their future and encourage them but we don't have to push them Again. We got to give God something to do. That's right. So at some point and listen. That's not easy to sit and watch, right, but if you're both healed, I can hear you and you can hear me and we can have this conversation and dialogue. And you don't feel like I'm pressing on you and I don't feel like you're rejecting me. I can feel like we're having a conversation. You met me where you are, I'm speaking to you where I am and we may not be in the same point, so we'll have it again another time and maybe we'll meet at that point at another level and then we'll understand each other.
Speaker 2:On this point again, like unlearn, the fact that it just has to be easy and in some ways, you're saying it has to be your way. That's right. You don't think you're saying that, but what you're saying is I need it this way. Well, if you need it that way, at some point in the future you will be able to custom, make and create, but right now 2025, you can't. And people come to you as people, as flawed people, with hurts and trials and triumphs and successes and victories. They want to be celebrated like you want to be celebrated. They want to be not held. What am I trying to say?
Speaker 2:They want to be cared for and the things that you want to be cared for about like everybody, is coming to you as a human being and to have this idea as women that we have. I'm going to stop here because you know I can talk about this all day. But, to have this idea, as women that we have, that the man is there to save our day. We have literally given him a job that he did not apply for. And isn't qualified for he's coming to be your partner your spouse, your friend, your lover.
Speaker 2:He's coming to be that as he is. But we've given prerequisites for everything, and then we have a very detailed job description that they didn't sign off on?
Speaker 1:No, they did not, so you got to let grow with them and let them.
Speaker 2:So that's a part I would unlearn the teaching. I would not be I tell my husband this all the time If he had met me prior to my healing journey, we would not be married. I would have already driven him away, like already, and, truth be told, I probably wouldn't have wanted I'd be like you need to be like this, but that comes from having that's you said earlier an element of control. There are things that you have in place to protect you from things that you no longer need protection from, but if you don't get healed from that, those trees remain, that mindset remains and that fruit remains and it will prevent you from moving forward. So that's what I would say.
Speaker 1:I hate that. I should have had you on the unlearning marriage when we going to do that again. We're going to do it again because I just feel like there's a lot that we could talk about in that, but I think everything you said also applies to children. Yes, it does Right, and and, and it's one of those things that you know you know, obviously, every, every child is not raised by married parents, but if they are, if that that understanding absolutely translates and it's so necessary to understand within the context of your relationship with your spouse, so that it can transfer to your child.
Speaker 1:Um, and, and I think, like I love that because children, there's a lot of things that teach us and yeah, we got to teach and train children, but it doesn't always have to be with through my words and through like it. There are, there are multiple ways. Environments teach us more than I think anything else. And so what is creating the right environment mean for teaching, and not just trying to create a sliver of space and say, okay, this is the time I'm teaching you and da, da, da, da, da da, okay cool, and so we need to do that and understand. So, and I guess, when you're saying like you don't always have to be teachers when it comes to children, I think we are just not always in the way we think we are.
Speaker 2:I mean my mom said this one day Okay, somebody said this one day. Too late, too late, it's done. My mom said this one day she wanted us to go ahead and say she's very proud of Mike. He's five months old, she thinks the world of him and he can do anything. She wanted us to go ahead and say she's very proud of Mike. He's five months old.
Speaker 1:She thinks the world of him and he can do anything.
Speaker 2:She's a first-time grandparent and she loves it. She's such a great grandma, but she said this one time she's like we need to start teaching him. I want to wait to see his learning style. I'm watching him.
Speaker 1:Watch him. That's right. That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 2:I want to let him be him before I impose upon him something that may not fit him and his learning style. That's how it translates that I am watching him intently to see what he does, how he pays attention, what he picks up on, so that I can teach him in a way he best learns, as opposed to scolding him for not learning the way I choose to teach him.
Speaker 1:Correct. It's a different framework and I love that and I think again, you create the environment for discovery and that is its own teaching of even how he approaches things. Hey, before you and new environments, watch first before you say anything, like when he feels that from you and from his parents, from his house, we watch before we speak, like you know we do that. That's how we do, that's the culture you set up. It's a different mindset. I love that. I just got to say this man, like we said at the beginning, me and Erica have known each other for a long time and I gotta be, I gotta say this. I'm gonna say this publicly, I don't care, I mean, I'm gonna say this to you because it's just us Um each other and we were very different people and we have seen each other.
Speaker 1:It is so refreshing, and I think it's a testament to time and growth and the Lord, that you don't have to be who you were 20 years ago. That's not a reality, right? You don't have to do that because I'm with you. If my husband had met me three or four years ago, he wouldn't have wanted me. You know what I'm saying. I mean, at any other point in my life really, I mean it just wouldn't have, it wouldn't have worked.
Speaker 1:And so I think, just recognizing that, like, change is real and it's possible, and it's possible for you, like, and and I think it's, it's, it's an openness to it. And is it hard? Yeah, like, it ain't easy, it's very hard, but I, I think you know I'm saying I've seen it, I see it in you, I see it in myself, and it's really cool to see where God has us now. I can't say 10 years, I mean 10 years ago there's I would never, you could never have told me this would have been my life and you know, really truly didn't see it. But the guy has has a different way of you know, we discover our stories. They've already been written, right. So, um, so yeah, I just want to say that out loud.
Speaker 2:I appreciate that it's true, and that's something everyone else can know too. You can unlearn the fact that this is just who I am.
Speaker 1:I am who I am.
Speaker 2:You can unlearn that you can learn that I think when you think, when you are striving to be your best self, when you learn that that's not your best self, then you work to become what a better version of yourself is. That's correct, and I think that's what I was saying earlier too. Like you don't always realize that's not it, like I think our parents are being the best version of themselves at that time. You said earlier, the more you have kids, they get another version of you which may be hopefully a better version of you as you continue to move down the line with children. But I do think that's worth unlearning that I just am who I am and people just have to. They can't accept you. They could choose not to. That's also their choice. Or you could choose to see if there's anything better you could be, because there's never a place called there you never reached like, oh, here I'm my best self.
Speaker 1:That's yeah, subjective, I, I there's a guy named myron golden and I. I know we have to stop, but I just we all end on this um, what is he? He says um, you, anybody, is doing all they can do with the person they are right now. Everyone is doing all they can do with the person they are right now. Everyone is doing all they can do with who you are right now. If you want to do more, you have to become somebody different. That's just reality. So you're doing your best with who you are.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:But there is, if you, if you want more, you have to be, become more, and that is a journey, and I think, like this, you know this conversation and and and, and you know people who find themselves in very, very different seasons of life and different. You know which we all do, um, in order to meet that. You do have to become a different. You have to become different, um, in order to do that. So, anyway, man, thank you for being here.
Speaker 2:I'm glad you had me. This is fun. I love the podcast, so it was a blessing to be on it. Thanks again for the invitation.
Speaker 1:Absolutely All right. Y'all Download, subscribe, do all the things we love y'all. We're growing the community. We want you to be a part of it. If this was helpful or if this was eye-opening for you or somebody else, don't keep it to yourself. Share it and we will see you next week. Let's keep unlearning together so that we can experience more freedom, Peace. Thank you once again for listening to the Unlearned Podcast. We would love to hear your comments and your feedback about the episode. Feel free to follow us on Facebook and Instagram and to let us know what you think. We're looking forward to the next time, when we are able to unlearn together to move forward towards freedom. See you then.
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