The UnlearnT Podcast
The UnlearnT Podcast is designed to help you gain the courage to change your mind about things you never thought you would change your mind about. Our hope is that you will begin to move towards a life of freedom after hearing stories from individuals who have chosen to unlearn some things in their lives.
The UnlearnT Podcast
Remember The Titans: Do You Know When It’s Your Time To Lead and Your Time To Follow?
The Remember the Titans episode explores leadership themes, racial tensions, and community transformation through the lens of this iconic sports movie featuring Denzel Washington.
• Sports movies powerfully utilize the underdog narrative to touch on deeper social issues
• Coach Boone and Coach Yost represent different leadership styles—visionary versus pastoral
• Leaders can't divorce their identity from their leadership style and effectiveness
• Breaking down barriers between players required confronting historical roots of conflict
• True friendships develop when people allow themselves to be influenced before influencing others
• Winning created momentum that helped transform community attitudes about integration
• The true test of change came when the community united during moments of tragedy
• Changing systems requires first changing people—but not everyone, just the right people
• Your personal story can impact community transformation beyond your individual narrative
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hello everybody and welcome once again to the unlearned podcast. I'm your host with abigail aka. What's up? Friends? It's your girl, jaquita, and this is the podcast that is helping you gain the courage to change your mind so that you yes, you can experience more freedom. And we're in our little summer series here, summer oh, I did that last time you did, but it's so applicable okay listen, okay, listen. Okay.
Speaker 2:It's summertime. I don't even know if we're quite in summer yet Are we in summer?
Speaker 1:I don't know. I never know.
Speaker 2:We're not quite there. It's like a little bit later in June We'll be in summer. Really yeah, summer starts like.
Speaker 1:June 21st. Okay, well, we'll call it our springtime summer series. I don't know, springtime summer series is crazy. Well, if you are just now joining us, we are taking a little moment to be a little lighter on our feet. You know, a little light with this topic.
Speaker 2:If you're not watching and didn't see Ruth Abigail's little dance right there, we apologize that you missed such a moment of joy.
Speaker 1:Okay, yes, yes uh, we are talking about movies that we grew up with and some different things we can unlearn from them, and just kind of reflecting on the lessons that, uh, we know now that we maybe didn't see then, or that that are relevant to now. So, um, let the the we. We've talked about several so far, and so we are now going to talk about one of my personal favorites what is your personal favorite?
Speaker 2:ruth abigail, that's one of my personal. We've already done mine we, we have.
Speaker 1:We used to watch this movie growing up as a family all the time. This is definitely my one of my dad's favorite movies, hands down um, we, when did? I can't remember when this movie came out 2000. Uh, producer joy, when did the movie come out?
Speaker 2:2000 something maybe like 2000. All right, I'm gonna put a guess. I think it's 2000, so 2000 okay, 2000, 2000.
Speaker 1:Okay, so the movie came out in 2000. We were in the 8th grade. And so this came out, man, I think we saw it in the theaters. Denzel Washington is a star.
Speaker 3:Okay, historical context Denzel, y'all.
Speaker 1:Come on. Denzel Disney produced the movie. This is none other than Remember the titans.
Speaker 2:Remember the titans everybody remember the titans everybody. Okay, listen this movie. You know I was not an athlete okay, I was not a sports kind of girl, except for marching band. I'm about to say marching band is a friggin sport.
Speaker 1:Pause, pause.
Speaker 2:Marching band is an activity marching band is a Get out of my face Until you carry a 40 pound tuba on your back marching around the field for 15 minutes playing girl bye. Okay, we would go to Bands of America, we out there competing. We did not play the games.
Speaker 1:First of all, I'm at every Friday night football game you did more football than I did just from being on the cause. I didn't go to football games like this.
Speaker 2:And still didn't understand the game. Wow, sat there with my sousaphone looking and all I knew was what song to play. When they were like, hey, play the fight song. I'm like cool, did we score? What happened? Wow, first down. They get a fight song for a first down. Wow, I don't even know what a first down is, but I have, since producer Joy has been tutoring me in all things sports and I appreciate her for that. I have chosen teams. We'll reveal that on a later episode. But you know I'm beginning to and I go. You know I work at a D1 school. You know, you know, go Tigers, you know. So I've been forced into the world of sports. Wow. But I will say remember, the Titans was the movie where I realized sports movies are my jam.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Like because there is no, no other genre. Okay, there is no, no other genre. Okay, hits the inspirational. You can do it. You know we came together and changed the world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, quite, like a sports movie. It's a it's a it's. You know we all love the story of underdogs, like the underdog narrative I really think is it's. It's probably one of the most popular narratives in story. You know what?
Speaker 2:I mean like for sure like that.
Speaker 1:That's something we all, because at some point we all have been an underdog that felt good, didn't it you felt like a radio broadcast.
Speaker 2:I just feel like I, just, I just I just felt like that's.
Speaker 1:You know, that was it needed to be pointed out. We, though we felt like an underdog. We've, we've all been on the, on the the side where nobody thought we were gonna make it. You know what? I mean um and so yeah, that's kind of how sports movies are. It's like, yeah, they they yeah.
Speaker 2:Sports movies most definitely follow the the characteristic of we don't know how we're gonna make it. Okay, the odds are against us. That's it. It's very rare that you're looking at a sports movie and everybody's already on top well, it's not a movie.
Speaker 1:You can't do that right, like it's not a movie.
Speaker 2:If you do that, it's just it has to be and I also feel like you know guts and glory. You know like that's part of like what people like love about. You know glory specifically football.
Speaker 3:I feel like that's part of like what people like love about. You know glory specifically football.
Speaker 2:I feel like the basketball movies be a little bit more lighthearted, you know like, like.
Speaker 1:Mike, you know Joanna man Well coach Carter was, was was the equivalent One of the equivalents to the to the to the remember the Titans, you know what I mean special shout out to Coach Carter.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we enjoy Coach Carter, alright so, but you know, I think the thing Hardball sorry had to bring it up.
Speaker 1:I love Hardball, everybody love. Hardball man come on man everybody tell me you ain't cry.
Speaker 3:I did it's the first movie I cried in. No, I'm talking to the audience, tell me right now.
Speaker 2:You didn't cry watching Hardball. We all did. That was one of the first movies. I was like man that really that hurt, man that hurt Hurt. Cried in this one too, though. Yeah, no, remember the Titans Absolutely. I think the thing that really sets Remember the Titans apart, though, is that it's a sports movie set in a historical time, and it just I mean it kind of just brought all of those things to the surface, like all of the racial conflict, the time period, like it, just it was using football, even though it's based off of a true story.
Speaker 2:But football is kind of the center of how they navigated the conflict in that particular community. And so I think you can't talk about leadership without talking about conflict. And that's what makes Remember the Titans so good, because it makes us kind of ruminate and think about how we deal with conflict, how we deal with hard times within the things that we're trying to produce and achieve.
Speaker 1:So how we want to break this down is there's kind of three big character sets, if you will, that are represented in the movie. Of course, we can make an argument that there are more, but we're going to focus on three. We're going to focus on the coaches, relationship between them, the relationship between the students and the relationship with the community, and so we'll start with the coaches because I think, like, they set the tone right, they are the ones who set the tone for for the movie and for the um, the moment in this, in this town, right? So it's set in 1971, virginia.
Speaker 1:Um, and they're, they're in gettysburg or near gettysburg, I don't know, but they're, they're in the area of gettysburg and so it's a very um, it's a historically rich uh, and they're, you know, they're segregated. They bring in Alexandra Virginia. Thank you, producer joy. Okay, so, um, they are, they're segregated, they're in a town that's segregated and they are forced to integrate. That is where we are Right. Um, tc Williams high school is forced to integrate, and part of that integration process is football. And so you have an award-winning coach, coach Yost, who's the white coach. Great team Done really, really well. But they bring in a black coach, coach Boone. They move his family into town and they say you are the new coach of this high school. And so he came. He did not.
Speaker 1:He moved to Virginia, um, and so he wasn't from there moved into this smaller, smaller school yeah, smaller school, and he goes and he's, he's thrust into this position, and so I mean just that by itself, right. You have this racial tension. You have the black coach who is a uh, a winner in his own right. You have the white coach who's a winner in his own right. White coach gets ousted for the black coach and then the black coach has this pressure. We learn later on in the plot that they, they have put him in this position.
Speaker 1:So, like they, they basically want to prove he can't, this isn't going to work, and so he. He is told that if he loses one game, he's, he's fired, and then there's going to go back to the, to the way. So what? What are some? What's a takeaway? That?
Speaker 2:that that you have just from from that, from that setup, that initial I think that the first thing that that immediately you're you begin just kind of processing as you're watching the movie is that they are not able to divorce their identity from their leadership. You know, at one point in the beginning of the movie, you know he's sitting on the porch with you know, the black superintendent, and you know the guy is like hey, you know, I heard you marched with King. You know, and I heard you're a race man and he said I am, but I'm also a family man. You know, like you don't get to just be a football coach, yeah, you know, and you know the superintendent is impressing on him the community needs you. Like we need this win, we need to. You know we need to feel like the hope, like there's hope for our boys to succeed, our community to succeed, and all of a sudden you're no longer just a football coach, you are the door for a community to get from one state to another, you know. And so, like you don't have an opportunity to divorce who you are. You know what you identify as you can't divorce that from. You know what you're trying to achieve and I think that it goes.
Speaker 2:I think we talk about this all the time the necessity of self-awareness and realizing what's in your bucket. I don't get to take out as a leader. I don't get to divorce from being Black. I don't get to divorce from being a woman. I don't get to go in a room and say, you know, I am just this, you know I'm bringing all of who I am into that place and along with that there's expectations. You know there are. There's, there's people, there's projections, right, of what it means to be me, right. So, like every room he showed up, he was challenged with how is this black man going to show up in this space? And I think a lot of times we don't realize a lot of. A lot of us as leaders, because we've been carrying that pressure for so long, we don't always realize that, like, you are more than you're, more than a coach, right, you're more than a position. You are carrying an identity that has added extra weight. Yeah, and I think the same was true for Coach Yost as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think Coach Yost, he has a very unique thing to hold right. I think it's important to understand that. Both coaches are holding tension, um, and coach Yost's tension is I was the head coach of this team. I was doing a great job. They were, uh, they were putting him into the hall of fame. The hall of fame, um, and I, my my position, is taken from me. What I don't like it's not, it's not because of my lack of uh, uh success, it's because of a system change, right.
Speaker 1:And so, even though you know you can argue it needed to happen the way it happened, because he's human, it definitely, it definitely impact.
Speaker 1:I mean, you have to, you have to be honest about how that must have impacted him. And so I think, like he's over here, I mean, put yourself in a position where you are in charge of something, you're the, you're the top and you're doing well and you're excited about what's coming next, and then they come and knock on your door and say you are no longer going to be in charge, we're going to bring somebody else in over you who has no ties to what you've done, who has no trust with the community. But we have to do this to make a point. You're going to be in the second chair, where you're used to being in the first, and Coach Yost had to make a decision which he didn't have to do. He didn't have to stick around and, to his credit, he did right. Um, but he didn't have to, and but one thing he did have to do, I think, is this is find his path to humility and because he didn't start there and if you watch the movie you could.
Speaker 1:His personality was a more even keel personality, but he still had a lot of pride Right, and so he had to find his path towards humility. And so sometimes you know, if you, if you've ever, if you've ever had to make that type of a transition, whether it's first to second chair or you you, you know you used to have some sort of influence and now you have different level of influence there is a pathway to humility that you have to start on right you've got to make your way there.
Speaker 1:And I think, um, it's important to know and to unlearn that you won't necessarily, you might not get there immediately. Like, just because you have a good heart and good character doesn't mean that you make that leap immediately. Like you have to work your way there. And I think we see his character work his way towards humility, yeah, and be able to lead effectively from a different seat than he was used to being in yeah, but I think, you know, I think something that is is super important to note is that, while he was able to lead the team that he had before, I don't think, coming in, he would have been able to do what Coach Boone did.
Speaker 2:No, no, no. Simply because I think there is a difference and I think that the tension in the movie was you have one coach trying to protect old systems, trying to make sure that our old way of doing things, our old systems, our old relationships, our old mindsets don't get broken. I'm trying to protect my players and I'm trying to protect this team. As I know it, if you, until you break away from that mindset, you will not be able to pioneer a new season of what may be the same team, but they have to go a different way. That's right. May be the same team, but they have to go a different way. That's right. And and I think, even if he, if and I don't think he, I think he realized that toward the end of the movie, like when he was like you know, nobody else could have done it Right right, right.
Speaker 2:You know what you did here was was absolutely like phenomenal, and I know you were the right man for the job. And then you know, coach Boone says, you know, your hall of fame in my book.
Speaker 3:It was a beautiful moment. Beautiful moment Really.
Speaker 2:But there you have to. Your leadership in one season can be a stumbling block in another, for sure, and I think you know, I think, something that you and I have both had to learn when we moved from one level of leadership to the next, from one level of leadership to the next. It was man, wait a minute. Like who I was. Oh, it's not going to work here, it's not going to be enough.
Speaker 2:It's not because you are not. There is one thing especially when you are somebody who built something, you're like listen, I know what it takes to build something. I can, I can build something. But if you go something, I can build something. But if you go, if God expands your territory and you move from a small organization, company, team to a larger one, you are going to have to shift how you do things. You know, I even I hate to use this as an example, but I moved from a smaller house to a larger one, and even the way that I situate myself in this house, it has to be different.
Speaker 2:Immediately, I was like man, I'm getting overwhelmed and I said Jaquita, you have to create new systems. Right, you look at the little Instagram videos and they're organizing the bathroom drawers and the kitchen drawers. I used to be like, oh, that's cute but unnecessary, you ain't got to do all that. No, you do, you do, you do. You will get lost in your bathroom without those little containers. Be like where is my little itty bitty thing that I use for the little bitty thing? You have to be willing to create new systems in order to thrive in a new atmosphere, and I think that it took Coach Yost some time to let go of the smaller season he was in to embrace some of the bigger ideas that Coach Boone had to carry on his back.
Speaker 1:Here's the other thing I think is important about Coach Boone that we, that Coach Yost, has to understand he didn't have the gift for, and that's the gift of pioneering right and the gift of going first.
Speaker 1:What's interesting is like to your point with Coach Yost, he had. The team he had was a team. When the black players came in, they weren't necessarily coming as a team, they were coming as football players. They just want to play football. So you had somebody who had a team. Then you had these players, which is very different than a team that are coming in, and then you had new people that nobody knew that started to enter in. So somebody who already has their mind fixed on a particular way with this particular group was not going to be able to come in and do something new as well as somebody who's totally fresh.
Speaker 1:He didn't know anybody. Coach Boone was brand new. He didn't bring no players with him. He ain't bring no coach. He brought one coach with him and so he was. But they were new. They didn't know. They didn't know any of that and they didn't have they, they, they didn't have anything to fight against that. They were protecting so they could move forward future wise, in a much more um, in a they could, they could. They had no problem. The only way they knew to go was forward.
Speaker 1:There was no back because they didn't have a back to go to. And so versus a coach Yost, very much would have. I mean, he's having to fight and negotiate his past with the future of the team and somebody in that position.
Speaker 2:Oh, sorry that hit me. Oh, negotiating the past and the future of something Like I don't think. I don't think people realize how often we find ourselves, not just in leadership positions but in your life, when God is trying to bring you something new. That may that you know, you might be the Noah building the ark or the Abraham who had to leave his family, noah building the ark or the Abraham who had to leave his family, but you are still going to have to wrestle with what I had versus where God has taken me. That may look completely different, it's a completely different landscape, but the moment we start taking those old mindsets in and allowing them to overrule the new that God has put us in, you're going to find yourself backtracking and there is nothing worse. There is nothing worse than being in a new place, losing, and you feel stuff falling through your fingers like sand, shifting through your hands because you have not built yourself up to hold the new thing, because you're trying to treat it like the old one.
Speaker 1:So this is not my story to tell, so I'm not going to fully tell it, but I will tell it from my perspective, uh, and I hope one day they they get a chance to tell it, because it is a beautiful picture of what uh, of a, of a. You know in my life, what, um, what I experienced with my father, and so when he, when my, my father, came to Memphis, he came to be the successor of a large church here that was predominantly white, with the idea of they that the community around the church was changing. They'd always been a community church and the, the founding pastor, who was a white man, knew I don't have, I'm not going to be able to lead a multi-ethnic church. That's not my gift. So he called my father in to be that new leader. I think he knew what.
Speaker 1:I think Coach Yost had to discover that my gifts and skills were for one season and I have to move over and make room for somebody whose gifts and skills are for this season.
Speaker 1:He did it very willingly, right. The pastor that I'm talking about did it willingly. Coach Yost didn't do it willingly, he was forced into it, right, but it's still a reality and watching that transition it was hard enough, doing it on purpose and doing it with a plan, thinking about doing it like it's a surprise, and I didn't even expect that, you know, and I don't want this to happen. And they just show up at my house one day and tell me I'm, I gotta be, I'm no longer the head coach. I mean that is, but sometimes that's kind of how life hits you. Something happens and there's a quick shift and a quick change in how you're, in how you move as a leader, and you have to accept that. Um and so I think, yeah, so I think, this idea of you know, you gotta know where your leadership thrives and when it's time to pass the torch.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Um and it's, and, and. That that takes a level of humility, it takes self-awareness, like you said, and it also takes trust in that next person.
Speaker 2:I don't know that it takes trust in the next person. I think it takes trust in the idea that just because I think if it, you know, I don't think it worked because he trusted, you know he started to trust Boone, right. But I do think that, like, there are some times where you have to leave things and you don't get to interact with it anymore. Well, sure, yeah, and I get that.
Speaker 1:Yeah and so, but but I still think you have to trust them. I mean, I still think there has to be a level of trust you gotta trust the Lord. Even if you don't interact with them there's gotta be a level of, because I think, if you what happens, you can insert yourself, whether it Insert your influence, whether you know it or not. If you live in a, if you live in distrust of something, you can sabotage it in your own way. Yeah, um, even if you're not directly interacting with you.
Speaker 2:but that's what I'm saying. Whether you trust them or not, you have to remove yourself like you have to.
Speaker 2:You have to take the position that you are supposed to be in for that next season well yeah, agree you know, and and I think that's even in our relationships with people there have been people in my life just people in general where if you get into your head, this person will not succeed without my input. Like, if I don't mentor them, advise them, counsel them, then they're never going to get it. And you make them your project and you're always checking them to see if they're growing according to your measuring stick. It is not until you step back and even when you don't trust the person, you trust the Lord and you have to give that thing over. And so I think, regardless, whatever situation you may find yourself in, you have to give it over. You have to surrender it, and not because you're like, oh it's in good hands now it's going to be great.
Speaker 2:Sometimes you got to surrender and say I don't know if these people going to get it or not, but I have to trust the Lord with that. Yeah, um, sorry, all right, I got a little caught up. Um, but one point that you did make that, I think, transitions over when we think about their leadership style and how it really started to impact the students, because the thing, the, the growth of the coaches was really starting to show up in the ways that kind of the players move through their own trajectories, right, and so thinking about them as a team, right, when they first, you know, thinking about that first little moment in the gym, you know where they rolled up on them, okay, they rolled up, I said, oh, and they're going to try to give them a byline you know, and there was.
Speaker 2:You know, they started off very much with this us versus them mentality and it took Coach Boone, who again had the pioneering spirit, who had the kind of mentality of I'm not tied or obligated to anyone he was because he was obligated to the team as a whole. He was able to transition them from brokenness to something that could work together in union. In, in, in sorry unity, yes, unity, but my mom was like in holy matrimony and that marriage might be on my mind child, maybe, maybe, maybe it's one of y'all out there huh, is anybody anyways never mind, yeah, I feel like producer.
Speaker 2:Joy is telling me to get back on task. She is um, or maybe she's saying the prophecy 101 okay, if it hits you, go on and grab it. I know I did.
Speaker 2:Okay, Anywho I can't help what the Lord drops. But you know I, you know there was. They had to get to get a team from brokenness to a place where not only are they working together, they actually begin to enjoy one another and build relationships. That was a very intentional task and because he was focused on the team and not the individuals, he was able to move the team forward. But when we, I think, one of the most defining moments for them besides the fact that, like when he got on, you know, they first got on the bus and they did their little segregated bus thing and then he took them off and, you know, put them by team, put them by function of black and a white person in every seat, you know, I, I think the defining moment of when they were able to shift from the infighting to the let's create paths toward understanding is when he made them run to that graveyard.
Speaker 2:Okay, that that run. First of all, I wouldn't have made it. Nope, never would have made it. I wouldn't have made it through them up-downs. Blow that whistle one more time, sir, I'm going to die. Okay, I'm going to die. I'm going to get down and can't get back up. Y'all didn't do that at.
Speaker 3:March of Bands.
Speaker 2:First of all, the disrespect I was just saying y'all supposed to be sporty. First of all, we practiced on concrete number one. Okay, we practiced in the parking lot. Okay, that's number one, Number two. I don't care what you say. They weren't 40 pounds, Okay, that's you know what?
Speaker 3:I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:Hold your arms like this for two hours. Done. Okay, I'm going to do it for the rest of the episode Girl, get out of my face, but anyways.
Speaker 2:Anyways, see now me and Ruth Abigail got division. Okay, you got to watch that spirit, it spreads. But I think that when they ran to that site and they were running they didn't know where they were running to. But he knew that there is a difference between addressing the fruit of conflict and really getting down to the root of it. And he took them back to the root of the conflict. Right, he took them back. He had to go back.
Speaker 2:You have to if you are going to dismantle something in an organization, in a system. You have to take them back past the point that they're at right now. If you continue to try to deal with what they're fighting about right now right, they were fighting about music, they were fighting about who's eating at what table. They were fighting about you know, their stereotypes and their, their misunderstandings of each other you have to get them back to the point to realize that what y'all are fighting about has a deeper start. It has a deeper origin and we got to deal with the origin so that we can make a different decision than our predecessors made. And I think for me that was so important to realize, because we don't. You know, there's so much conversation about what history we're going to teach and what things we're going to. We're going to allow our students, our children, to learn and how we're going to relay history.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but learning history is what helps us to pivot and make different decisions, and the students when they were face to face with history, were able to create a new road and a new path, to make a different choice for the team. Yeah, and I think that the importance of going back Wait what happened.
Speaker 2:Sorry y'all. Producer George is putting the chat to tell me to call them players.
Speaker 3:I mean, I work with students, so everybody's a student, you know, but I understand students school appropriate.
Speaker 1:Okay, the student athletes okay they'll say players, um, but the this, this historical context, I think is, is, is um, is also really important, just because the going. So, when you're trying to, when you're going back to your point, guido, when you're trying to get to that, to the root of something, uh, one thing that he points out is that the, the boys and they were boys that died in that field were fighting the same fight that you're fighting today. And making the contrast of. It's not a new fight.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And if we want a new result, we have got to do something differently. Yeah, absolutely, and it's like we are fighting the same battle we were 100 years ago. Yeah, by at the very least bonded as a team. Um for uh, through, through, through, just sheer physical labor. I mean like he had put them through a crazy uh, uh, uh exercises and drills, and all this stuff made it, never would have made it they were and so they weren weren't. They were bonded by this experience of they were.
Speaker 2:They were all broken down, bonded by by the trauma of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, they were all broken down to their. Everybody was broken down.
Speaker 1:And so the intentionality of then in everyone's like most broken, vulnerable state. He woke him up in the middle of the night. They're not really all that clear and they have to run to this place. I think it's also, you know, I would be really interesting to hear the real coach boone kind of walk through how, like his, his thinking around this, because when you break it down it's it's a psychologically a psychologically a brilliant you know move to. I mean just, you know you think about Angel.
Speaker 2:Street. We want to apologize.
Speaker 1:We don't know what Ruth about to have y'all do we're taking a run because you, because people have to be in a state to receive and sometimes like the best place is at your worst place that you're open that wasn't in the notes.
Speaker 1:That's good yeah yeah you think it wasn't in the notes. I don't tell you everything um, I'm just she just rolled her eyes at me she just thinks she's so smart like I'm just joking, it really wasn't but um, but yeah, so so the you're, you know they were at their worst and that's when they were the most open and he was able to say what he said.
Speaker 2:And they heard him, yeah, and, and I think that that was you know, so'd be.
Speaker 1:Really. I'd be really interested to know like? Did he do that on purpose? Was that just instinctual Like, because that's it's exactly the way we work as humans, right? Like you think about, when 9-11 happened, as a country, right, Church attendance would skyrocket Crazy percentages Because, as a country, we were all feeling vulnerable. Everybody felt vulnerable, Everybody felt hurt, and it's like we need something, we need something, we all need it. And so, in moments of crisis, no-transcript, and that that's that. I think that's what made it more powerful is this wasn't just one player that was being that. That that, you know, had to experience something and needed to, needed to be encouraged. This was a team culture that had to experience something and needed to needed to be encouraged.
Speaker 1:This was a team culture that had to be broken and rebuilt and he did that through, um, you know, through that experience, and so, yeah, I just think he, you know, his that that that is that that kind of experience will really pull you together.
Speaker 2:But you know that because I know a lot of people who just have that gift and it's so misunderstood and it's something that's not appreciated until you get to the end of a thing.
Speaker 1:What particular gift. What?
Speaker 2:are you talking about? I don't know what the name is, so I'm going to just describe it but the ability to to, uh, it feels like they're deconstructing. They're the gutters you know like, and they are constantly like, because it really did feel like he was constantly picking at everybody. Now to his defense he did it with. He did it across the board because, again, he was dismantling the things that were preventing them from going forward. Right, and I do think that there was. There was a place when coach Yost was at his best. He was the one that was nurturing the individuals best. He was the one that was nurturing the individuals, but coach boom was nurturing the future of the team, like he's the one that set the vision for them to go forward. And it's almost like you know he was. He was more apostolic inside thank you.
Speaker 1:You're gonna have to break that down for the people because you introduced a new term.
Speaker 2:Well, the point that I was trying to make is that Coach Yost was very pastoral. You know he was. He was very much a shepherd of the people. You know he was very much. You know like. You know you broke your foot. I'm coming to help you with your foot. You know you need me to protect you from the lion, the tiger and the bear. You know I was very much. You know like. You know you broke your foot. I'm coming to help you with your foot. You know you need me to protect you from the lion, the tiger and the bear. You know I got you with that. You know he was, he was very.
Speaker 2:But I feel like Coach Boone was more visionary and you don't often find both of those things in one person. It is, it is, it is there. But for them to coexist, like you have to allow there's a constant shifting where you have to allow one to be on top and you have to allow the traits of the one person who, whether you know if it is a time of nurturing, you have to allow that to. You have to allow that to be the moment, have to allow that to. You have to allow that to be the moment we are in a nurturing moment, but when we are in a visionary moment, it's rough and tough go at them, and it is. It is not a moment where everyone may be nurtured, but it is a moment where we will change and transform. And so I think, when you look at the players right, it was in that moment where they started to adopt the vision, right.
Speaker 2:They started to adopt this ideology of change and transformation and maybe we can be different, maybe we don't have to be like the people in the grays and the two players that you see that changing in first is Julius and Gary. Right, they both Gary first. Right, because and I think this was one thing where we started to think about ideas of friendship right, because the two players who were kind of the most at odds really they took the most white player and the most black player and said these two have to be friends. Right, that's gonna make the most interesting. And said these two have to be friends right, that's going to make the most interesting. You know, because you know Gary was like Bertier, was like the, you know the leader of, you know the old team and Julius was the surly I don't really want to lead anything but probably the most respected, because you know he was kind of big and mean but probably the most respected person on his team and the necessity of their friendship and and helping to develop a new culture for the team.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, this is like I think their, their friendship is a is a is a really good example of the way iron sharpens iron. Uh, they are very much iron, right? Uh, they're not.
Speaker 2:um, flimsy about. They're not soft.
Speaker 1:They're, they're, they are, uh, they are. They can be destructive with other things, but with each other.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're they, they are, they're shaping right yeah so I think I think it's important and and and Quida, you know I'm I think we could kind of like share a little bit about how we know, how do you know, like I think, how do you know that you're being sharpened? And I think, for me, particularly with what I'm going to use you as an example, right, as a friend who is very different, right and strong in her own right One of the ways that I know I'm being sharpened by you, because you don't do this. This isn't, it's not. You're not comfortable with conflict. You don't like it. I'm getting more comfortable, though you are. This is my point, this is how I know I'm being sharpened.
Speaker 1:When you don't, when you are willing, no, when I said, let something go, or like you know, or or you're unwilling to just, um, accept something that I might say or an idea I might have. No, like, nah, I can't let you get away with that. You gotta, I gotta, I gotta introduce this. So I have to correct you in this, or I have to, you know, for whatever it might be, because I know that's not your preference and I also know you wouldn't. You're not just going to do it, just to do it. You do it for a reason, and I recognize when Queda stands her ground in a particular way. Um, something about that is sharpening me and I need to pay attention to that because it's not her, that's not her comfort zone.
Speaker 1:So so, um, that's so. If you have a friend who's who would willingly steps outside of their comfort zone, um that, and they do it in the context of you and your friendship, that might be a sign that you're being sharp and you need to pay attention to that yeah, I would also say sharpening is offensive like it will.
Speaker 2:It is not. Oh man, I'm just so glad my friend makes me better. Right, you know, some of the moments where I remember being sharpened, pushed back upon from you the most are some of like my most. Uh, they are the moments where it was like I was face to face with myself and it was because of something you said One moment that I think just really stuck with me the most. I think I was in my prideful season. You know I had it. You know went through it. You know a lot of people do.
Speaker 2:Don't be judging me.
Speaker 3:All right.
Speaker 2:But we were in at Furman and I wanted Ruth to be spiritual so bad Like I wanted and be spiritual so bad Like I wanted. And not that she wasn't, I wanted her to be spiritual Like I was spiritual. You know, I wanted her to. You know, do the things that I believe that spiritual people did.
Speaker 2:And I remember one time uh, there was, uh, we had a, she was a religion major with me. Her name was Emily. She was a really cool person. Um, I think she was. Uh, we had a, she was a religion major with me. Her name was Emily. She was a really cool person. Um, I think she was a music. She was music and religion major, right, cause she was a music major with you, so like she was like a mutual friend. And I remember having this conversation with her one day and I was like, oh, this girl gets it Like she knows the spirit. And I remember I was sitting in Ruth Abigail's room and we were just talking and I was telling her about the conversation I had had with Emily. Do you even remember this, ruth? Cause you're not giving me the I'm very interested.
Speaker 2:This was such a defining moment for me and you're just sitting there looking like girl.
Speaker 3:What is she?
Speaker 2:talking about, Well, where we going. I think when I say this, you'll get it, but I remember saying something like Ruth Abigail what if she came to church and got the spirit before you did? What if she was just like? What if she started speaking in tongues or running around the church? What if she's just more spiritual than you? And you looked at me. Oh my God. Ruth Abigail looked at me and said is that what you think of me? Dang the shame, the shame. Okay, I, I reckoned with that. That thing wrecked me for years.
Speaker 2:wow, for years it was no, the way you looked at me and the way you were just like so, you really just don't. It was in that moment where you said you don't see me and and that's what wrecked me, because I I had to contend with myself, my own ideologies about what I thought saved was what I thought spiritual was, what I thought good was who I thought what I thought worthy was. I had to contend with that and and the fact that you know it was, it was so, was so challenging. Like you, you weren't even I mean. You were like I apologized profusely and you were like I'm fine, like we're cool, and I was like I am not okay, that is how you know you're being sharpened. Wow.
Speaker 3:And the other person is like because when you're the one doing the sharpening, you're like I'm good, I'm good, I'm fine, I'm unbothered, but the other person what just happened to my?
Speaker 2:Yeah, when you are the person being sharpened, you are like oh crap, yeah, but you know, for me that was really a turning point because it made me realize, you know, for you and for just everybody, that I had that thought about, that I needed to, I needed to to go a little deeper with people, that I was the shallow one, you know, and I thought I was trying to help you to be deeper and I realized, no, I, I have missed the mark here. And when you are in that moment, you know, for in the movie Julius and Gary, they were when they realized, you know, I think, the moment that they realized that we are both going to have to use our strengths to lead this team is right at the end of camp where, like, gary hits him and says strong side, left side, strong side, you know. And it was at that moment where it was like we can both be strong. Yeah, right, like, and we can, we can, you're opening.
Speaker 2:And I think the thing that, uh, the thing that I mentioned to Ruth earlier, was that when Julius, who never really wanted to be a leader anyway, julius was like I'm trying to be great, you know, I'm trying to be great at football and I'm trying to get all the benefits that come with that. You know I'm not necessarily trying to lead the team. Gary was always about the team. He was always reassuring people, he was managing it, he was a leader. You know, and there is a difference between wanting to win and wanting to lead Absolutely. And if you cannot sacrifice the win for the sake of the team, you are not going to be able to be a good leader, because there are some of the best lessons and the most growth is learned in losing.
Speaker 2:That's when we're learning. We're not learning when we're at the top. Yep, the top is when you use what you learned when you was at the bottom to overcome some things you know. And so I think when Gary, when Gary stepped up and he started calling Julius on his crap, and when Julius finally started allowing himself to be influenced, when it, when he allowed himself to be influenced, he was able to be an influence, yeah, um, but a lot of us want to have influence without allowing ourselves to be shaped and molded. But anyways, I'm sorry, I felt like I talked for a long time, so you did not.
Speaker 1:That was beautiful. I think I think that was, I think that was excellent. I think it's an excellent segue, this idea of winning, because, to your point, I think that's something I have very much had to unlearn I like to win. I'm like Coach Boone I'm a winner, I'm going to win you know um I mean it's like I hate losing that was a denzel impression, guys right there. I didn't, I didn't give it as much as I could you know what?
Speaker 3:I'm saying, okay, well get, let's hear it okay, here we go.
Speaker 1:I'm a winner, I'm going to win. That's all I have, that's it.
Speaker 3:what are you doing? Can you do it better? I didn't say I could. You the one who took the bait. Honey, I ain't no impressionist, I don't.
Speaker 1:I have no impression in my body, obviously. Okay, all right, you know what? Okay, we love you, ruth, but this idea of winning is a core theme of the whole movie. You know, they have a again. Coach Boone had to win every game in order to keep his job, and so that was although he didn't always say it, it was definitely in the back of his mind, and he, just, he showed up as a winner. He said I don't, I'm a winner Like. This is what I'm here for, I'm here to win. His win was also the community win and the community. And so this is, you know and I got to give credit to Quitter for this point because I think, uh, it's a very, uh poignant point is you see the community coming together, you start to see them after they start to win one game, two game, three games, four games, and all of a sudden, like they're, they're, they're, they're, like they're killing it. And you know, you have this scene where the players are getting free food and the, the the same restaurants.
Speaker 1:That wouldn't let them, that wouldn't let them in the school is um is is celebrating them. Uh, you know, you have uh julius's mom, who I'm not sorry gary's mom who, who's becoming a little bit more accepting the, the coach's family, start to come. All of that is happening while they're winning and the question becomes would it? Can we attribute the unity of the community to winning right? It's like the community is coming together around the idea of winning. Would they have come together like that if they hadn't won right, If they had been losing?
Speaker 1:or just, it may have been a mix, you know, and I think it's really here's. I think what's beautiful about it is winning does kind of lifts everybody and it's an opportunity to leverage real change right when you have wins. This is going to sound totally left field, but in the art and science of community organizing, one of the things that they tell you is you want to pick an issue whenever you're doing an issue. When I say community organizing, basically taking uh, uh, you're trying to, you're trying to change the system right, try to do some systemic change, and so um, but for grassroots right, grassroots from the grassroots you do systemic change, so, um, and one of the biggest ideas is okay, you have to pick an issue. Whatever that issue is, you want to make sure that issue is winnable and you want to make sure it's winnable within a particular timeframe, because you need momentum.
Speaker 1:And so people get behind momentum, this idea of winning. You're winning these football games. The community is feeling the win. There's momentum, there's momentum, and so it's like, oh wow, maybe this will work. So we start, we start living as though it's working, and, and so I think it's an, it's a, it's an opportunity reminder for us when you have winning seasons leverage iteverage it for something deeper.
Speaker 1:Don't let that go. It's not just a time to celebrate. You got to leverage it because when people feel like they're winning, they're much more open to change, and I think that's something that we could take away from this. You saw that they're more open to changing and being around people they're not normally around In the stands. They were separated. You could tell you had the black people over here, you had the white people over here. When they were winning, they came all together. They're sitting next to each other, they're cheering, they're doing the chant that the, that, the, that the titans are doing, and so, and other teams are looking like what is going on here. These people are crazy, like you know, but they're, but they're, they're on a high from the wind, and, and so I think there's there's a that's beautiful and there's an opportunity to leverage that into something that can last yeah, no, I no.
Speaker 2:I think that that's really good, and I think that when people don't feel like they're winning, then that's when the feeling of resentment comes. And resentment is the breeding ground that allows division and hatred and all of those other uh, all of those other, you know, kind of negative societal ills, to flourish, right, those things flourish when we feel like we're losing. If people did not feel like they were losing, we probably would not have as much um, uh, anxiety, anxiety or conversation about who's winning and who's not If?
Speaker 2:the community feels like we as a community are winning. And I think that is so important that the movie emphasizes the point that in order for the community to progress forward, this team had to win together. It couldn't be the black football team or the white football team that won. They had to find themselves in unity and in collaboration, winning together in order for the team to catch, in order for the community to catch on. And so when you look at kind of the pipeline, it kind of went from the coaches to the players, to the school, to the community, right, it kind of funneled out. And so you have to believe that the change that you are trying to initiate, that if it catches on and if it brings two ideas, two people, two communities together, that you can create systemic change. And I think we have gotten to a point where we no longer believe in systemic change.
Speaker 1:I don't know. You think so, I think we do.
Speaker 2:Let's leave that to the audience. I would love to know your thoughts. I think that we believe I'm not saying that we don't believe in change. I think that we don't always believe that systems will change. We believe that we can change our circumstances and situations, our circumstances and situations. I don't know that, when I don't know that we necessarily believe that we can change societal ills.
Speaker 1:Well, you know the reason. The reason I'm saying I think we do is because I think we have. I don't think we would see as much movement towards it as we do if we didn't believe we could change it. Like, I think I do think there are people and the, the, the, the move towards systems change in different ways is no matter what, what change that looks like. Like I think that we, we see that there's a need and you have a lot of people talking about that, and I think that I don't think that we would do it if we didn't believe it. I do think it's obviously harder to do and I think that a lot of us have felt defeated in the last year or so around it. So it's hard to keep that hope. I mean to be honest with you, but we still fight right.
Speaker 1:We still decide to move forward and I think there's got to be something that says I believe this can happen. I do think that you need it. A lot of times it happens in small chunks. So this idea of Alexandria, virginia, if they can do it right and systems change with the systems change starts with people change like that that you can't have one without the other. You people can change and a system can't change. But a system can't change if people don't change Um and so that, but everybody doesn't have to change. For a system to change, you know, the right people have to change and you know, and I, and I think that's that's where we, I think that's where the hope is. It's like that the right people we still have, we still have an opportunity for the right people to change and if the right people change, the system will change. Yeah, Um.
Speaker 2:So I think I think something important to note from the movie. You know we talked about the impact of winning on kind of like the mindset of the community, but there was also the impact of the community got tested, and I think Abigail made this point of did you really change? You will see that in the midst of tragedy.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yes. The scene where Gary's mom comes into the stands after his accident. He's in the hospital and she enters into the stands and everybody stands up in class. It wasn't just the white people that did that, right. It was the entire community, and I think that is the picture of, or a picture of the wins have leveraged real change. Yeah, because when tragedy hit, we didn't go back to our corners.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was, and I think the kind of one of the symbols of that as well was Gary's girlfriend.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Right Was, you know, who had earlier in the movie refused to shake Julius's hand but, like, made a point to go to the field, yeah, and be like, hey, I need this handshake, all right, because I'm changed Right, all right, and I'm changed all right, and I've been impacted, all right. And I think that that really, I think the societal change, because even at the end, when they're at, you know Gary's graveside and you know the daughter who I think in the movie which producer Joy made this point. So we will give her credit.
Speaker 2:You know like in the movie how, uh, coach Yost's daughter is kind of like, always the expression of like what is happening internally with coach Yost, like you know, like his unspoken thoughts, his unspoken turmoil. She always just says it out loud.
Speaker 2:At the end of the movie, at the gravesite, she talks about how impacted the community was by the life of Gary, by the story of the Titans, and she talks about how, when we go through different, we're not perfect, but when we go through challenges, we remember the Titans. You know and you have these, this array of people, array of players gathered at his gravesite, and you know there is a memory. Your legacy is is doing more than building your story. Gary's story built the story of the community and I think you have to. You know it goes back to something we talked about in our Millennials, in Crisis series, where you know we talked about like your purpose has to have impact and influence and sometimes it comes in unexpected ways, but the way you navigate your challenges can have community impact outside of your own narrative.
Speaker 1:Well, there you have it, folks Remember the Titans.
Speaker 2:I love how we're having these conversations about these movies, like you know, because when we watched, it.
Speaker 3:I wasn't thinking about this.
Speaker 2:At eighth grade, I didn't have these big intellectual themes and, you know, breaking movies down. But I think it's important that we go back because these movies shaped us, you know like and and it became, you know like that uh, attitude reflect leadership statement that Julius made. That like that stuck with me, like I like in my mind. I was always like if you think I got an attitude, it's because of your leadership. Yeah, or even in my own leadership. I was like the way people treat the moments that we get to is reflected by the way that I treat the moment Absolutely, and so, um, I just think that the series is so important because we're really delving into what, what has made us, because the movies, the music, the things that we took in have created mindsets and some of that stuff we needed to unlearn, amen we did Amen, yeah, um, so, uh, if you are enjoying this as much as us, and you think other people will, we want you to like, share, subscribe to the unlearned podcast.
Speaker 1:Don't keep it to yourself. Like, share, subscribe to the unlearned podcast. Don't keep it to yourself. Uh, we want to continue to grow this community and we want to invite you into the unlearning space. Come on, come on, come on, come on, learn with us. Yes, yes, yes, you, you, you, let's go. And, uh, we will continue to, uh, to unlearn together and yeah, uh, that's it. So let us folks keep unlearning together so that we can experience more freedom.
Speaker 2:We'll see y'all next week Peace.
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