The UnlearnT Podcast
The UnlearnT Podcast is designed to help you gain the courage to change your mind about things you never thought you would change your mind about. Our hope is that you will begin to move towards a life of freedom after hearing stories from individuals who have chosen to unlearn some things in their lives.
The UnlearnT Podcast
What's Your Leadership Style: Unlearning Laissez-Faire Leadership
Hello, everybody, and welcome once again to the URLt podcast. I'm your host, Abigail, a K A R A.
SPEAKER_00:What's up, friends? It's your girl Jaquita.
SPEAKER_03:And this is indeed the podcast that is helping you gain the courage to change your mind so that you, yes, you, can experience more freedom. And here we are, once again, um one more time.
SPEAKER_00:One more time in the house of the unlearnt to my lord, my lord, talk your talk, Ruth Abigail. Talk your talk.
SPEAKER_03:My Lord to discuss leadership styles. And I think we've been, it's been, you know, this is really funny recently. Uh Quinty, you said that somebody that you know described our podcast as intellectual, which I wasn't sure that I agree with. And then I was like, well, maybe I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:A little bit. I can see it a little bit. You know, we try to do, we try to get the people a little bit of both. You know, we're giving you all this is, but Loki, this is our real dynamic. Like what you guys see on the podcast, this is me and Ruth Abigail. We have decided to make our friendship public. Public. Yeah. Yeah. That's facts. And I really feel like, you know, we've been doing this. You know, like this is how we have always talked.
SPEAKER_03:Like, yeah, it's true. So I don't know. I guess we we most of our conversations lean in this type of direction. Like, we're not, we're not really like, you know, as you would say, Kikiers. Well, I'm not.
SPEAKER_00:Me and Joy can Kiki. Yeah, yeah. Me and Joy, we can get a good little Kiki in. Yeah. Because Abigail, first of all, Ruth Abigail will ruin a whole Kiki. You'll be like, girl, guess what happened? Ruth be like, that doesn't make any sense. And I don't agree with that. And actually, that's really, that's really not the way you should do it. What you actually should do is this, this, and that. And the Kiki is just done. It's over. You know.
SPEAKER_03:It's not my style. Not my style. Not what I do. No, no, no.
SPEAKER_00:Ruth, she's not a kikier, but but we love her still, people. We love her.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you for the butt. You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_00:That's obviously like when you say that, it's like the friendship lives right there. It lives right there in the in-between. Okay. Dang, golly. No, but you know, again, people who make you better are not going to be the same as you. You know, like, and you have to, and I think we we brighten up that side of each other's lives. Like, you know, like if there was a light bulb on my intellectual side, like Ruth Abigail comes and that side starts blinking and flittering and gets all excited. Because that's that's where we light up each other's lives. And you gotta know where you're that sucks. I wasn't even trying to be sentimental. But I'm glad you received it as such. Uh, but you got you have to know, you have to know where people are fitting in your life. Because I just watched this one uh podcast that Ruth Abigail sent me because uh, you know, we're trying to, you know, make sure we're broadening our horizons so we can continue to broaden the scope of the podcast. Absolutely. Um, but one of the things that she talked about um that was mentioned was like the seven like rest styles. Like the seven, yes, and I because I was like, Lord, and I've been talking to some friends, and I'm like, I'm not, I don't feel like I'm getting what I need right now. You know, like you know, I'm taking a little hiatus from classes, but I don't feel like I'm getting what I need. And you and you know, there's different styles of rest and different ways to find peace. And, you know, for your for your brain and your mind and your spirit and your emotions to settle. And I think it's important that you know who around you is gonna contribute to what levels of rest. If you need spiritual rest, you're it's not gonna be good for you to go to people who are who are constantly pulling on that. Not there's a difference. Okay, I'm sorry, this ain't even the the podcast topic for this. This ain't in your notes. This ain't in my notes. This ain't in my notes. You get this, you get this for free. Okay. There is a difference between someone contributing and between and someone pulling, right? If you are spiritually drained, but you have people in your life who like, I need spiritual insight and depth and growth, right? And and you're having these conversations that could maybe from another person seem spiritually uplifting, but because that person is seeking, it's it's pulling, that's draining. And you need to know, you need to know how people are adding, are uh are supporting or are pulling, or you need to you need to be aware of what's happening in your relationships so that you can get real rest. Not not that we putting anybody to the side, but you need to know, oh, I need rest in this area. And this ain't this ain't the place I'm gonna be able to get. My light bulb is not is did not turn on here. Yeah. Um, which leads us to what we're gonna talk about today, okay? We are talking about the law. I thought Ruth Abigail was gonna do it, but she just jumped in a little ass.
SPEAKER_03:I was literally about to do it. No, go ahead. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, well, you know, today I think the leadership style that we're talking about really kind of links, like kind of segues really well with the with this current conversation, is we are talking about the laissez faire leadership. Okay, laissez faire. And laissez faire literally means, like translates to let do or leave alone. Right. And so like it is a leadership style that has minimal intervention. Um, it is it is not, this is not a helicoptering leadership style, right? This is a stand back and watch everything work together, leadership style. So it's it's not hands-on, it's not gonna be as involved. Um, and I think it's probably the leadership style that because of that can be the most misunderstood.
SPEAKER_03:Whatever I used to think about it, I used to lazy is what I would think.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, it it really does like it's it it sounds like that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's really not at all. No, it's not at all. It's not at all. Um, I think that it is a leadership style that in some regards can be a little bit of a um of a uh mile marker in your own leadership, because when you get to a point where this style works well, there's something that's been done to get there. Because in order for um in order for this style to to work well, you have to have a team of people who can operate at a level that doesn't require you to be in the midst of things, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um, whether that is and that and and and joy producer joy and queen to help me with this, because I they kind of turn me around a little bit on some of the requirements for this. And so um, I think it's it's you gotta have determined people, people who are self-starters, people who want to grow. Like you don't need to, they don't need motivation, right? Yeah, um, and then autonomous, yeah, but autonomous in the sense of like their autonomy doesn't lead to them just doing their own thing, it it leads to them doing what's necessary. Yes, right.
SPEAKER_00:Humble. Yes. There's a sense of humility that even though you're not always over me, like if you have a laissez faire leader, even though you're not always over me, I don't have some secret plot to build something bigger than the vision of the team. Right? Like I'm I'm really trying to contribute to what we have here. Right, right. And um, ooh, yeah, I I have examples, but I want you to go on.
SPEAKER_03:Well, no, I mean I think I think you should you should talk about your examples, but hold on. Before we do that, let's like describe it real quick, just so people like a full version of it. So it's hands off where the leader provides minimal direction, provides minimal, it's still some you still provide direction. It's just minimal. Um, and allows team members or employees at high degrees of atom, um uh employees a high degree of autonomy, uh, decision making and task execution, right? So it's not that you're you're not lazy, you're not paying, you're not not paying attention, right? You just you give minimal direction and you take your hands off and you go let them do things, right? You go watch them work and then be available when it's when you need to be available, but there's no need for you to be proactively available, yeah, which I have done in the past, and we can talk about that later. Um so low direct supervision, high autonomy, you're supportive, right? Not directive. Um, it's and it's used best with skilled teams, and I'll I'll add a an asterisk to that skilled and or determined uh self-starting teams. So even if your team is not highly skilled, if they are determined and self-starters, you can get away with it. I think all the three of us who were kind of doing our pre-conversation all kind of noted that we have had at some points um laissez faire leadership at times where we weren't highly skilled at our jobs. Oh yeah. Um and so it's like we came in kind of green at what we're doing, but there wasn't, there was still trust because of our kind of determined nature, right? Our self-starting um character, we're able to to just do things.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you know, and I think it's interesting because I even as a person that has had laissez-faire leadership, like I find myself having grown in being able to be under that leadership style. Um, because when I first started kind of in student affairs, campus life, like I was like, yo, where my leader at? Like, where they at? Like, don't nobody show up. Ain't nobody, nobody told me how to do anything. Yeah. I created a vision and a plan. They were like, that's fantastic. After they realized that I was going to create vision and plan that I was gonna move forward with, I never had not one. Hear me, not one. One-on-one meeting, no supervisory check-in. The only meetings I had were, they used to call me JQ. Only meetings I had was JQ, JQ. We want you to come in, make us a video. Okay, we want you to get the team, you know, now they got ideas of what they want to do, but not like, hey, how can I support you? What do you need? Sure. You know, and so like at that time when I was kind of, you know, just getting started in in this particular field, I was like, I was kind of like, so it's just me against the world. And so me and my team became something separate than the larger vision of the division, honestly. Like, we we were like, we we over here doing our thing. We don't know what everybody else is doing. We over here doing our thing, we're gonna make it amazing, which I did, but I think I've grown now because I would say that I've been under, since then, I've been other under other leadership styles that can other leaders who have that laissez faire leadership style. And I think that I'm I I recognize their leadership style is not licensed for me to have the takeover spirit or for me to build something that's bigger than, you know. I'm sorry, I just heard I just saw David Ruffin and Otis, you know. Nobody's bigger than the group. Ain't nobody came to see you, Otis. Okay, because that's exactly how I felt back in the day. I was David Ruffin, okay? And they were ain't nobody come to see the rest of y'all. Okay. I'm I'm a showstopper, you know, but I've had to learn, and I think something that is so needed, you know, when we're talking about the people who are working under these kind of laissez-faire leaders, where there's really not always a lot of oversight. High level of trust, low level of supervision, low level of, and I don't think that there's necessarily a low level of support. You just have to recognize how support is being given. It may not be in the way that you expect. Sometimes they out there, you know, they out there and they're they're your biggest advocate. They're talking you up. They're the reason you think, you think you're making progress because of your effort, but your laissez-faire leader might be a might be above you, creating avenues and pathways and and and opportunities for you. And that's why you're succeeding. But you don't see what they're doing. Yeah. And I think um, I think that that's something that I've learned, like when I look back on my career, that I've had to grow as a person that submits to leadership, um, and not submits to the leaders that I like their style, but submit to understand that that they might be covering me in a different way.
SPEAKER_03:I think it's a great point. Um so, all right, so story I had when I first got here to Memphis, I was working for organization, and I um I'd never done what they are at. They I was hired to do a mentoring program, but we didn't have, we had just started uh doing what we are, we just we had just started in the neighborhood and we didn't have a building yet, and so we were just starting programming, and so I didn't have any kids to do the mentoring program with. And so my first year was really about outreach, which I did not know coming in there. I didn't even really understand what it was. I'd never done it before, all this stuff. So my boss at the time, he uh two very clear examples of laissez-faire leadership that were great because he understood who I was. I didn't need him to to do give me much. But um, so I think like we walked into the I walked into the middle school cafeteria with middle school students I did not know, just like seventh graders. And he walked me through the school and he was going around introducing himself to all these kids. He's very life of the party, very charismatic guy. He's been doing this forever. And I'm sitting here like, and we did it, and I was like, I know, I don't know how to do that. And then when we left, he was like, All right, you got it. This was like in the first couple weeks. I said, God, what? So I like avoided it for a while till I had to do it. But he was just like, You got it. And then it's the second time he said that we had to put on a program for the middle school, for the for the um both grade levels. We did it so we were the second site, we had a first site, and we wanted to show them kind of what we were coming in to some of the things we were gonna do. So we did what we call club, and so it was basically like it's a whole bunch of games and hype moments, and we, you know, maybe have a couple of songs, and you give a little inspirational message. So um, myself and my team member at the time, who quite frankly was a pretty horrible team member, he he ended up getting fired before his 90 days. But um Oh Lord. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was not good. So, but but he he didn't show, he didn't even show up to this, right? We had planned it. He was supposed to be the hype person, I was supposed to get a message. He didn't show up. And so my boss came and I told him, I was like, hey, homeboy, is it coming? Talk about he has a migraine, he can't make it. Okay, so um, so then dude, so he was like, Okay, I'm on my way. So my boss comes up and we're in the back, and they there's like a hundred something seventh graders in the room. Mind you, I'd never done this before. I had seen this done one time at the at the at the the center we were at for their kids after school. I seen it done one time. We did it, or they came in, my boss were in the back. We were about to get started. Are you good? What? And this man left gone. Left. So I had to go up into the stage and I had to be the hype person, and that is so not who I was. Now I I mean I learned how to do it, but I'm like, I'm not very cool. I'm in an environment that I'm not like I don't do this, like this isn't what I do. This is not what you hire me to do. I want that's not and so I had to tell ask one of the coaches. I said, Hey, um, can you help me hype up this crowd? Like, help me. I know he was like, Oh, yeah, no problem, no problem, no problem. So we did it, and it was fine. But but I he he understood who he had on his team. He understood who I was as a just as a worker, and I he knew I wasn't gonna let the thing fail. We were going to do this, and it was gonna be as best as I could make it, right? Now he might have had other things to do, or he might have just did that on purpose just to throw me in the fire. I don't know, right? I have never asked him.
SPEAKER_00:Lise fair leaders love a fire, love a throw you in the pool moment.
SPEAKER_03:But it worked, and I think like that to to one of the things that Lise Fair leadership can do, I think you mentioned this. I can't did you just say this on the recording or just say it before? The growth of somebody under Lise Fair leadership can be very exponential because you you have to perform right in in areas where you don't have as much supervision. So if you have the the um the the kind of substarter mentality and you have the integrity of a hard worker and you know you're gonna do well regardless of, you know, you you actually end up growing under this kind of leadership or can because you have to figure things out on your own. And you learn things that you probably wouldn't have learned if you had to, if you were kind of given the steps along the way.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I also think one of the uh strengths of Lazé Fair leadership is that they really believe in the gifts and talents of other people. Like, you know, like like your boss believed in your ability to pull off a good show. And you know, not just because, like, oh yeah, she's a hard worker, but because no, she's gifted enough to do this. Right. And she might not, and his thought probably was she may not do it the way that I would do it, but she's gonna do it in a way that's gonna be effective. Correct. And I think that trait is something that kind of stands very tall with Lase Fair leadership uh versus other leadership styles, where they might believe in you, but they're also like, you know, but you need some fine tuning, you need some this it. I think that Lase Fair leadership says, you don't need me. You know what I'm saying? Like, like you don't need me to be great, you don't need me to do a good job, you don't need me to pull, to pull things off. You have what it takes, and that can feel very empowering. It can like, you know, although I felt a little abandoned at times. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I also felt very empowered that everyone believed in me. Like nobody, nobody ever thought, no, she's gonna be able to do that right there. Right. Everybody was like, oh no, Queen owned it, good. You know, and but I will say, as a person that has worked under that type of leadership before, like, yes, like you do feel really empowered. Like you like, oh, I can kill this, I can do this, oh I can do that. You you start um you start uh uh uh sacrificing for the team. You know, you you don't, and I think, I think going back to our birth order conversation, I really feel like as an older child, older daughter, underneath Lase Faire leadership, my thought always goes to somebody else may need them more than me. Or something that they're doing might be more important than what I need. Right? And so I think as a laissez faire leader, you know, you have to figure out and you have to be mindful of when it's time for you to step in. Yeah. Or else your people will, you know, eventually my thought process is gonna go from, okay, I take one for the team, I take one for the team, to I'm ignored. I'm not supported in the way that other people might feel like they are. I don't get what I need. You know, and then laissez faire leadership, I think, which this might be a separate point, there's such a lack of communication there because you may not be ignoring me, but because you're not communicating what you are doing, I get to build my own narrative. And this is how you get narratives of, oh, so you ignore me because I'm black.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Is it? Is that how we get narratives like that? Sometimes we do. Interesting. I didn't think you were gonna go there. I just I didn't see it. But I'll make it, but it's okay. But I'm gonna tell you, I can't, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I I I work at and have always worked at, well, not Greenville Tech, but mostly have worked at PWIs.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I think as a person of color in those spaces, when things happen, and I also think, I mean, this is again a separate conversation, but when you are a person of color in those spaces, you are hyper-aware of your difference. You know, like, and and again, when we're not having communication, I'm gonna build a narrative that may not at all be your intent. I think is the is the point I'm trying to make. Whether it's about color, whether it's about, you know, how I'm being perceived in that space, or it could be, oh, you, you know, you're ignoring me because you don't like me. Yeah. You know, like they don't, you know what I'm saying? You build a narrative, and that narrative becomes damaging to the team. And what's even more damaging is that that leader does not know what your narrative is. And I have been in too many situations where the leader is oblivious to what everyone really thinks about them. Yeah. Um I I probably have been the leader. Yeah. You know, where I didn't, I was not aware of what people how people really felt. And I feel like this leadership style, maybe more than some other ones, gets caught in that trap a lot because there's not as much communication.
SPEAKER_03:And that's a great, I think that's a really interesting point. Um, you can kind of get, I know for me, when I have leaned into this style, because I'm still a I'm a worker, like I like to work. I'm a three on the Enneagram, I like to achieve things, all of that. So for me, and this I don't think is a healthy way to go, and I've done this. It's like this style works for me because then I can focus on what I want to focus on, and I can focus on kind of the things that I really want to lean into personally for my own like, you know, just just achieving whatever I'm gonna try to achieve within the context of the role, but like I get to to do that as opposed to being overseeing what other people are doing. Um, I don't think it's a good, I don't think that that's a good way to think about this leadership style, but I know for me and my personality, that's one of the reasons I've leaned into it. And I've leaned into it at the wrong time. And then I I've missed opportunities to lean into it. And so I think you you you do have to be very hyper-aware and uh of of the situation you're in, and to your point, the communication, not just not just communication as far as like letting people kind of know where you what you're doing, what you're thinking, what's going on, but also the communication around expectations that you have as a leader so that you can have that level of trust with a team who is moving without real supervision. Because without that level of trust, this this particular style becomes very dangerous. You you can't you can't you don't you can't have this style without trust. And so I think my mistake has been um trying to achieve this style with low levels of trust um and trying to achieve this style with low level of clarity of expectation, um, which leads to low levels of trust because then my expectations aren't met, and then I don't think you can do what you need to do. So now I'm gonna be less I'm gonna be more hands-on where you don't need me to be. Really, what you needed was clarity of expectations.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And as a as a new leader in that role, I didn't know what those were. And so what I what I found myself doing was leaning into a style that they really didn't need because I was unclear about what I needed from them and I didn't know how to communicate it. Um, and it was it was more and it felt like I didn't trust them, which they had, which they said to me pretty explicitly, like, you don't trust us. And I was like, what are you talking about? Of course I trust you. Like, I'll be here alive, but but I be here, you know what I'm saying? I really wasn't always physically present, but it was always a chance that I would pop up because I just wanted to, I didn't try if I'm being honest, I didn't. Like I wasn't sure, you know, are things gonna start on time, or things are we have the right people in the room, uh, you know, I all this stuff, you know, just stuff. And there was no reason for that, but that's how it was functioning. And so this this style became it was needed, but I couldn't do it because I had a low level of trust, but that's because I I had not set clear expectations. And then on the other hand, I've also been in situations where my capacity has needed this leadership style. I need to be this kind of leader, but the team that I have isn't necessarily totally ready for that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And so, you know, so it's it you just you just have to be very hyper, hyper aware of the situation you're in and making sure that that communication is clear and making sure you you have the the right motivation for moving into this style. Like, um, and I think all three of those things I have gotten, I have gotten wrong.
SPEAKER_00:Hold on, but for sure. I don't think that we can skip past motivation because I think if your motivation, like how you were talking, like, man, you know, this leadership style allows me basically to do what I want to do, you know, and and you know, the team can figure out their part and and I can do what I want to do. Like your motivation for having this leadership style is everything. It is you are not gonna be effective as this type of leader if you do not examine your intentions and motives behind the style. It has to be purposeful. Yeah. Right? If you are doing this haphazardly, or if you just kind of fell into a laissez faire leadership style, I also think you have to be mindful. Like, are you laissez faire because you don't know what to do? Also, listen, you know what I'm saying? Are you like, hey, I'm hands off because I don't know how to lead? Yes. Right? And if it is if you got, if you invested more into your own development and growth, would your leadership style look a little different? Right. Right? Because I think there is nothing wrong with the laissez faire leadership style, but the whole idea of let do leave alone only works if you are intentionally doing it. Yeah. Not if you're like, I'm scared to lead, I'm scared to take the reins, I'm scared to be an authority. Because if you are coming from the mindset of this leadership style is best for my team right now, right? If at any point it was not what was best, you would step up and you would know your, you would know how to intervene. Right. Right? You would say, okay, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We got off track somewhere, everybody meet in my office. I when I found myself, because I don't, I would not say that I have a completely laissez-faire leadership style, but I will say that once that, once that train is rolling, yeah, once all the gears are oiled up and everybody's good to go, I I fall back. All right. I'm not, I'm not helicoptering, I'm not over-monitoring. I'm here to encourage, to uplift. Now, when I think about that, I'm like, okay, now I can do what I really want to do, which is, you know, help to build your confidence, help to strengthen you to become, you know, for your next thing. And I don't have to worry about this thing we we're working on right now. Because you got that. Like you can do all the projects and all the things and all the this and all the that. I ain't gotta focus on that. And I'm grateful.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You know what I'm saying? So I can see how really I'm transformational, but we ain't there yet. I can see how it can get, it can look very laissez faire, but you gotta know your intervention. Points. So for a while, I had a team where I was like, We are well own machine, baby. Everybody got their things. You know what I'm saying? Until somebody didn't have their thing. And then somebody else didn't have it. And now somebody else ain't got it. And so you know what I did? I said, all right, we're doing team meetings every two weeks. All right. I'm restructuring the one-on-ones. We're going to have this is how we're going to do our one-on-one meetings to make sure everybody's getting what they need. I'm stepping back in to walk with you guys a little bit more. You have to be able to pivot. And I think that that is the high point of every conversation that we've had so far about each of these leadership styles. None of them are so good that you can be that all the time.
SPEAKER_03:All the time. You can't. You can't. You can't. You can't.
SPEAKER_00:None of these leadership leadership styles are the one. Right. I you can ask my team. If you ask my former team right now, what was Jakuita's leadership style? They would say transformational leadership. Because I told them that. I was like, hey, I want to be honest and up front with you all about who I am, what my true motive as your leader is, right? I don't want you to, I don't want you to feel like, you know, you got snuck up on and Jakuita trying to be transformational. No, no, no, no. I was very clear. You know, I told you up front, but I hope that they would also be able to say that I was able to pivot, right? You have to know who you are, but you have to continuously, as a leader, you have to continuously be adding to your toolkit and learning about what another approach may look like. Right. And how, and it doesn't, I didn't, I never, not one time, one thing I am gonna be is authentic. I did not have to become someone else to employ a different leadership style. I did it my way. Yeah. Right. So if I needed to be more authoritative or if I needed to be more uh uh what's the other one we've done so far? Democratic. Democratic. If I needed to step into one of those leadership styles, I could do that knowing that at the end of the day, I'm gonna get us back to transformation because that's who I am. You know, and so you have to, it's okay to pivot, right? And don't, and I think a lot of times, if you I feel like the Lase Fair leadership style is one that people can also get really stuck on. Like, no, you know, I I let my team. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I don't I don't have to do all that interference stuff because they got it. And even if they ain't got it, they gonna get it. And they don't, I don't have to do that. And you can get stuck like that, but then I just think it's important for every leader to have a real understanding of what the people under you really think about your leadership.
SPEAKER_03:You need to do a 360 evaluation.
SPEAKER_00:You really do.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, you really do.
SPEAKER_00:You don't get to be a leader and not be evaluated. Yeah. You don't get to be a leader and not hear from your people.
SPEAKER_03:And you probably won't probably won't like it. Some of it. You won't. You won't like it. You won't. But it'll make you better because you won't know the the impact of your leadership, no matter what style it is, until somebody tells you. And then you can then you can take the steps to do what you need to do. You also, I think it also gives you an opportunity to see where your team really is because you can see them one way. And a lot of times, sometimes you can see them one way because that's how you want them to be. I I like you want to be able, you want that. And it's like, I'm kind of seeing what I want to see, and I'm not really seeing what is. Um, and you got to put yourself in a position of vulnerability as a leader to be told what is. Yeah. I know this is what you want, and I know this is your aspiration. I know this is your desire for us, but this is not where we are right now, right? Or, you know, I need you to see us for more than what you're seeing us as. Like we actually are here and you're treating us here. It's like, okay. So you need to hear, you need to hear that and understand that. And I like what you said, Queen, about this particular leadership style. You can get stuck in it. But I think we can get stuck in any leadership. You have to part of being a leader is saying, I'm always going to, I'm going to mold myself for the moment. Like, and and I'm gonna choose to do that every time. I was just talking with my sister-in-law. And she was just saying how they um she is in this co she's in this um, I guess, cohort about leadership. And they asked her, asked them all to define leadership. And she said one of the things she said was leadership is a daily choice. It is a daily choice, it is about character and choice. And I was like, I love that. I think that's so true. Because you have to decide, and it's a lifestyle, it's a lifestyle of of being of submitting to the moment. Like, you don't get to be a leader and be stuck in your own style, be stuck in your own way. That's not what leading is. When the direction changes, you gotta change because you have people that are looking to you.
SPEAKER_00:Here's the thing as the leader, I don't care if you laissez fair, democratic, or whatever, but especially laissez faire, you don't, it is a it is a hard thing when your team is more aware of what's happening than you. Absolutely. Because they're in it day to day. And so you as the leader, it doesn't matter what your leadership style is, you should be at least one step ahead of your team. You should be able to see when the changes are coming, when a need is coming, when you know what I'm saying, there are some things that come that knock us all off our feet. But as the leader, at some point, I'm gonna expect you to stand up and and be and be the leader. And and not the leader from a distance. You know, I'm I'm gonna when when when the stuff starts flying, okay, and the things start coming and and stuff starts going down, I'm let me tell you something. One thing Jaquita learned, okay, is to stay at her pay raise. Okay, that that's above me. Yeah, it's above me now, okay? I'm so sorry. Like you have to, your team should still be able to say, my supervisor is gonna handle that.
SPEAKER_03:Correct.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. I have a leader that can that that's gonna take the hard stuff. That's it.
SPEAKER_03:That's it.
SPEAKER_00:Your team should not be taking the hits because you're not present.
SPEAKER_03:That's a great that's a great point.
SPEAKER_00:And when you decide that you trust your team and they got it and they're gonna do it, when something goes wrong, the responsibility still lands with you. It's on you. That's on you. It's on you. And so if you are the type of leader who is detached and distant and they got it and let do and leave alone, but when stuff goes wrong, you like, hey, that was I gave that to my team and they were supposed to handle that. I don't know why they didn't do it. Absolutely not. No, and you know, it stops with you.
SPEAKER_03:That's and I like you said this earlier, like what like being clear on what your leader, you may not know all that your leader is doing, but you need to understand you it can be dangerous when you don't know what your leader's do. Like you just don't know, like how and how it impacts you. And I think that's one of the things, one of the ways you can put ease to your team is even if they know um there are certain problems that I don't have to worry about. And if that's if the if you like, if you help them to understand that and then you deliver when those things happen because they will, then you can with confidence they're doing their thing and they know who to call when there's an emergency. Like, and that's something that I learned how to do and I and I hope I do it well. But like, if there's ever any anxiety around something, whether it's a parent is mad, or we have to clean something up because we messed up a communication, or there is a this happened not too long ago. There was an active shooter outside of the outside of the building.
SPEAKER_00:My lord.
SPEAKER_03:And you know, Memphis, there were a couple of don't do that, don't do that. Hold on, don't do that, don't do that. Hold on, because we we already in the news, it's too much. Uh-uh.
SPEAKER_00:Oh Lord, no, I delete that.
SPEAKER_03:No, no, no. I'm saying like people are people are saying that about Memphis. I don't that ain't who we really are. It did happen, but that ain't all we are anyway. I digress. Um But we the team, I wasn't there. Um, and they were going, they were leaving their uh get into their cars. And they had they had had they some guys had come up and down the street anyway, with you know, all the guns. And um there was, you know, so one of my team members was getting in a car with a kid, and there was a shot fired at their, you know, towards their towards their direction. So anyway, they were telling me all this, and and we had a uh an like a um emergency team meeting. Emergency, we had a a spontane a team meeting. That's an emergency team meeting. I guess so. That would be what that is. Um the next morning just to go over protocol and all this stuff and make sure everybody was okay and all that. And so one of the things I was like, we need to sh we have to share with parents what happened. We need they need to know. We don't need that's not something we keep and we don't say. We communicate out, even though kids weren't necessarily most of the kids have gone home, nobody was hurt, all that stuff, but at least they need to know that we're aware and that their children are gonna be safe because at the very least we're gonna tell them what's going on. Yeah, I mean, you know, who that can't no, it it wouldn't have. Quite frankly, where we are, it doesn't get out because it happens a lot, it happens more than maybe other places, and they're not reporting on our neighborhood, so they didn't have to know. Um but we felt it was our responsibility, that's what we do, right? Like we we we want you to know what's going on, we want you to know that we have the backs of your kids. And you know who sent that out? Me. I send that out, they hear from me, and I send it out and I sign my name to it, right? That's even though I wasn't present, I didn't experience it, but that's not a responsibility for anybody else but me. And if you have any questions about what happened, you call me. Don't call my team, right?
SPEAKER_00:That part and so that that that's what we want right there. You know what I'm saying? I want somebody who's gonna stick their chest out, yeah, you know what I'm saying, and stand on business. If you're gonna be lise fair, you know what I'm saying, you cannot when it's time. I what where are your feet planted? Yes. Who knows who you are and what you stand for? Like, because I still need to know I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be excellent. I'm gonna be amazing, I'm gonna get my things done. But I need to know that you stand in there in case somebody got something to say. That's correct. In case something's gonna happen. Right? I one of I I had a fantastic boss. Love that, love that man. Great, great leader, great leader. And I remember there were uh a couple of times where things were getting heated, not in my office, but just on campus. And there were some things I was gonna have to respond to. And I just remember him being like, I got it. Like, I'm not gonna put you out there. It was technically, it should have been, it could have been my job to be, and I mean, it could, it could have gotten to the point where I I had to write statements that could that may be on the news. Or, you know, but but having knowing that he was there meant everything. Knowing that he was gonna put his name on things and that he was gonna stand ten toes down for me meant everything. Yeah. You know, because you need, and I think that's I think that's kind of my next point with Lazé Fair is that if you have this leadership style, you cannot go in without building a structure. You have to build your way to this. You need a system. Yeah, the idea that that you're gonna come in on day one and be like, all right, everybody do your thing. All right, wanna see you all flourish. I'll be checking in, you know, bi-monthly, you know. Right. You you gotta build, you gotta build your way there, player. You know what I'm saying? You gotta build some structures. And I think it's important that you, as the leader, you know, one of the things that I started asking anytime I hired someone new, what are your expectations of me as a supervisor? Right? Like what are you expecting from me? You need to be communicating with your team, you need to know the needs of your team, you need to know what it is that will help them to flourish. And like you said, Ruth Abigail, it is the job of every leader to become, you know, Paul says that I became all things to all men, that by all means I might gain some. Okay. You don't get you don't get to be static. No, you don't. You have to become what they need in order to get them to where they're going. Yeah. Right? Because and and you, above all, here's the thing. Their task is their responsibility. So, you know what I'm saying? The the things in their job descriptions, that's where they get their W's, right? That's where they get their wins. I successfully orchestrated this program, I successfully uh uh led this initiative, I successfully did my job. Their job is their responsibility. The team is where you get your wins. Yeah. And you are overseeing the mission and the vision of a thing, not a task. And so when you are overvision and when you are over a team, you have to be, you have, you are taking care of all the moving parts. So with one person, you may be able to be Lazate Fair. But with another person, you may need to be a little bit more democratic. That's an excellent point. Some people, somebody on your team might require you to be a little bit more autocratic. You ain't lying. You gotta put your foot down a little bit, you know. Come here. You gotta come here. What you doing? Write a schedule out, okay? I need to know because you're dripping.
SPEAKER_03:I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_00:They might respond better to that. And then you meet them where they are. I don't care what your, I don't care what your leadership style is. Again, transformational leadership right here all day all long. And you know, I look back and I realized, you know, there were moments where I look back and I'm like, I could have handled that better. For sure. I had a team member that really stressed me out because they were always stressed out. And I told my team, we don't do anxiety. Okay. We don't we're not, and nothing we do on this job is that serious to where we need to be anxious. You know, if there's something that ain't going right, we're gonna handle it and we're gonna move on and have a great day. Right? But I had a team member who she would hit moments where she felt really stressed out. And I did not fully recognize her stress because I had told her, we're not stressing about this. It's gonna be fine. And I look back and I'm like, okay, this is where my laissez faire probably was unfair because it is not up to you to decide the capacity and the responses of your team members. Yeah. It's also not my job to make your job less stressful. Like that's not my job either. It's not. But I can be a little bit more, I can coach more instead of saying more, have a little bit more empathy, you know. Yes, empathy, but empathy is not gonna resolve it.
SPEAKER_03:No, it's not. But it'll it'll it'll help with the way that it is um received.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, but ultimately, when people want either less work or more pay, and you don't have either one of those to offer them. Well, that's that's yes, empathy. Huh? I'm saying empathy, empathy is good, yes, yes. You need to be more empathetic. But I also think that you need to be more communicative about you you have to allow them the opportunity to express what they're feeling, you have to believe what they're feeling, and then you have to find somewhere down the line that you can offer either some trade-offs or are you can coach. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Like you, you, yeah, you empathy, I think empathy is the starting point, but then you gotta figure out how am I gonna coach this person because you if you if you are telling me that one day you you want my spot flash, you want my spot, right? If you're telling me that one day you would like to move into a role that is similar than mine, similar to mine, then I can't you cannot faint here. I have to build up your uh your strength. I have to I have to build up what you're able to carry.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00:Um and so I think again, if you are in the laissez faire mode though, you're not thinking about building and developing and making people better. You're thinking, man, my team is great.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Well, I think you're you're thinking you're thinking about it gives you the opportunity to think about capacity and it gives you the opportunity to think about scale, right? Um it you that that's where you can begin to think the have the you know three to five, you're thinking out further, much further than you than you even would normally because of your particular laissez-faire mode, because of who you're with. Um and for for leaders that are strategic, that's a really that's a gift, right? Um and and and for and for leaders who are growth-minded, that's a gift. Um I think I think lean into that season, if that's the season you're in, great. You won't always be in that season. Because at some point, one of those skilled people is gonna leave and a less skilled person is gonna come, and you may not be able to have that, right? And so you have to um, you know, lean lean into those moments and really take advantage of the opportunity to do those things, right? Because to your point, you gotta have struct structure is a is a must, it is a necessity for Lazarus leadership. If you are all over the place, if you don't have things or processes written down, if you don't, if you don't communicate, um, if you don't have schedules in place, if you don't have expectations, if you don't have um, you know, those those those key things, those um uh uh frames, uh if you don't have the right frame around the vision and boundaries, because frames are boundaries, and be able to focus the attention on what it is that you're on what it is that you're you need them to focus on. If you don't have those things, Lise Faire is gonna kill you. It's just gonna kill. It's gonna kill you, it's gonna kill the culture. You can't handle that. So if you don't, if you don't have structure, that's you can't, I I don't care if you have a skilled team or not, if you don't have structure, you can't do this. You have to spend your time getting gaining structure and making people understand the structure, uh, make sure people understand the structure and and all of that. So just I wanted to make sure that that was clear. Um yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I think Lise Fair Leadership is all about laying the groundwork. It's it's all about you still want to make sure you are setting your team up for success and not not depending on them, not telling them that they have to build their own success.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But hey, I'm going to provide you with the proper guidance and groundwork that's gonna help you to be successful. But I'm not, I I won't be holding your hand, but I have I have your groundwork for you. Um and you have to you have to know how you are adding that value.
SPEAKER_03:Well, that's it. I think we're done. Yeah, lause ain't fair. Okay. Leave alone, let do.
SPEAKER_00:Let do, right?
SPEAKER_03:Let go and let God.
SPEAKER_00:Let go and let God. My Lord.
SPEAKER_03:My Lord. So, um, what we need you to do, if this was of value to you, we need you to like, share, and subscribe. We need you to let us let us know what you're thinking. We need that. Um, we want to hear from you. We want we want you to, you know, again, join the community, be a part of this growing, unlearning community, because we're growing. You know what I'm saying? We're growing as leaders, we're growing as people. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:And we and we be transparent on here, okay? We be trying.
SPEAKER_03:It'd be a lot. Oh, really? Sometimes I don't be re-listening to it because I don't want to want to really be reminded of what's happening.
SPEAKER_00:There are there are definitely some episodes. All right. No, I'm good on that one. Hopefully, we're blessed. Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_03:Um, but I don't want to relive my own trauma. Correct. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. But but uh if if if this is helpful to you, don't keep it to yourself, guys. Share it. Um, we love doing this, and uh, thank you for continuing to listen. We appreciate it. Yeah. So, Queen, we want to sign us off.
SPEAKER_00:All right, friends, let's keep unlearning together so that we can sorry, she's not she has literally in the history of the podcast never passed the sign off to me. The pause is crazy. Like all right, all right, friends. Thank y'all for joining us today. Let's keep unlearning together so that we can all experience more freedom.
SPEAKER_03:Peace. Peace. Thank you once again for listening to the Unlearned Podcast. We would love to hear your comments and your feedback about the episode. Feel free to follow us on Facebook and Instagram and to let us know what you think. We're looking forward to the next time when we are able to unlearn together to move forward towards freedom. See you then.
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