The UnlearnT Podcast
The UnlearnT Podcast is designed to help you gain the courage to change your mind about things you never thought you would change your mind about. Our hope is that you will begin to move towards a life of freedom after hearing stories from individuals who have chosen to unlearn some things in their lives.
The UnlearnT Podcast
Mountain Top Experiences: Climbing Into Your Next Season
What's up, everybody? Welcome back to the Alarm Podcast. This is your girl Jaquita, and this, friends, is the second act where we reflect on where we've been so that we can redefine and rewrite what's next. Okay, guys, if you are watching this, you are viewing the very first episode of this new series. I'm so excited. I have such an amazing lineup of guests for you guys who are really gonna talk about areas in their lives where they have experienced the art of the pivot, right? So they've had a really intense or really uh intentional journey where they have had to define kind of a middle point in their life where they move from their first act to their second act, right? So, first up, y'all, listen, this is my brother, okay? And I am I am gonna go ahead and do something that might be a little risky to y'all, but I know it's not to me. I'm gonna guarantee you a good time, okay? I'm gonna guarantee you a good time because I have none other than Mr. Larry Kearns, y'all. Woo!
SPEAKER_01:Say what's up to the people, Larry. What is up? What's happening, Ross? What is going on? We are ready to have uh a good time if you say so.
SPEAKER_02:Listen, Larry is literally one of the most brilliant people I know, right? He is one of the few people whose vocabulary walks with mine, you know, like our vocabularies walk together, you know. Like when I use a big word, Kearns is like, yes. And when Kearns uses a big bigger one, I see your big word and I see one bigger. Exactly. Exactly. And so I just really, really appreciate it. You know, I've known Larry for it's been almost 18 years. It's been almost 18 years. Um, but we some of our uh biggest moments together have been on stage. Larry and I uh acted in a few church plays. That's right.
SPEAKER_01:That's right. That's like, don't forget.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, yes, well, we had just an amazing time. So when I tell you guys, a brilliant man, a devoted man, an industrious man, I have watched Larry kind of walk through the journey of kind of leaving corporate America and starting something on his own, which I really want him to tell you guys about, an amazing business that he's sitting in right now called the Sock Ministry. And so really wanted to get Larry on here to really talk through kind of what it's like to pivot from one area of of an area where some might have considered that like a real level of success to really endeavoring out into an unknown area and starting something new. So, Kearns, welcome to the second act.
SPEAKER_01:Well, thank you very much. I'm glad to be here. Thank you so much for having me. I'm looking forward to this.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, yes, it is. So, Kearns, I really want to start by um on on this particular segment, the second act, I really want to walk through kind of your journey. And so we're gonna break it up into three different areas. So I want to start with the first act. What do you define kind of as like the beginning of Kearns as a professional and as somebody just in your field?
SPEAKER_01:Um, let's see. I it's probably the the beginning of me, the beginning of this concept that um I I guess as I know it now really kind of starts in uh probably in high school, college, and in that transition. Um obviously the choice of what school to go to, and and and you know, that's when you kind of determine what it is that you want to do with your life, and you kind of determine, you know, what what trajectory you think that you're gonna be on. And I think that was probably the time in my life I made some choices uh when I was in high school that really kind of, you know, really got me on the path of making such choices for my life. Yeah, and I think that's probably, you know, kind of the that that that's kind of the rest of the way the story is told. From that point on, it's kind of me making those kinds of choices to to really determine who I wanted to be, how I wanted to be seen.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I love that you started that, Currents. And just for the record, okay, tell the people what college, what university gave you that start, okay?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I mean, you know, I must I must I must speak about the one and the only Firm in university. You know what I mean? Go paladins, go paladins F U all the time.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. One time for the one time, okay. We we had to do it. We had to do it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, for sure, for sure.
SPEAKER_02:It's so funny because you know, Kearns uh uh is also a graduate of the Fermi University. As many of you may know, my other co-host, Ruth Abigail, is also and I are all graduate of Fermi University. Okay, Joy speaks. Our producer Joy is also a graduate of Fermi University. So I think it's safe to say that Furman just produces greatness. You know, I mean, what can we say? It can't be denied. The proof is in the pudding, as they say, Curns. The proof is in the pudding. Um, you know, I love that you started the journey at college because I tell people, you know, I've been working in higher ed for about 13 years now. You know, I really need to stop saying all these years um delineating and putting time marks on things.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, because the numbers don't go down, you know.
SPEAKER_02:You know, they don't. I tell people all the time, every year I get older, but the students come in the same, you know, like I'm now like 30 and something, and these students are still coming in at 18. And I'm like, oh, right, right.
SPEAKER_01:Don't don't they get any older? No.
SPEAKER_02:No, they don't. They don't. Where are the 30-year-olds who want to just start college? But that's neither here nor there. But you know, I tell people all the time that college is really an a the place where you start to differentiate yourself, where you really start to figure out, okay, in high school, I held these identities because those were the identities that were available to me, right? So for me, I was in honor school, I was a band geek, and then I came to college and I wasn't in band no more, and everybody was in honor school at Furman, you know, and so there was an opportunity to really create and really settle in uh of on an identity that was birthed from what was inside of me versus what was being presented to me. So I'm interested to know, Kearns, when you left college, what was the identity that was birthed in you through those through those years in undergrad?
SPEAKER_01:Well, you know, I really honestly I started I started in college. Let me let me let me go back before I to before I get to graduation and just tell you that I'm the kind of person who as a kid has always had an imagination of who I was supposed to be. And not just who I was supposed to be, but but the you know, the kind of lifestyle I was supposed to live and how I was gonna go about that life. And so there's a certain image that I've always had of myself, and a lot of my trajectory in life has been me trying to chase after that image that I that I had of myself when I was much younger. Uh I'm the kind of kid who always got had no problem getting straight A's. I'm the kind of kid who uh always got it on the first time, you know what I mean? Got my driver's license on the first time, did everything, you know, kind of right the first way through. I'm I'm I'm a I'm not the poster child, like the the kid that my that all of everybody's parents want, right? And so the image that I had of myself in the beginning was always that I was gonna be a business professional. I have always seen myself, but I don't know exactly what that business was gonna be, uh, but I always saw myself as a business professional. So fast forward all the way through when I get to college graduation, and I literally got a job offer from the part-time job that I was working at the time, which to me was in line with the vision that I had for myself because it was a management job. And that's kind of where I that's kind of where I started right after college. I was working part-time, and they know they knew that I was going to school, and they said, Hey, you know, you're graduating, we got a job for you. And I and you know this, Ross. At graduation, that's the whole conversation. The conversation of the last three, two to three months of the of your last semester in your senior year is do you have a job yet? Got a job yet? Yeah. Got a job yet? And particularly I'm as a business major. And as a business major, that's especially, that's especially the question. Do you have a job yet? And I got a job offer, and I, you know, it it was it was the way that I could go back to school and I could tell my classmates, yes, I do have a job offer. I could check myself off of that pending.
SPEAKER_02:How much of what you were pursuing, um, especially kind of in that young adult area, how much of it do you think was the expectations you were putting on yourself versus maybe some of the expectations you may have felt from other people?
SPEAKER_01:I I think that I I would be lying if I said that I didn't deal with other people's expectations because it I I'm I'm not that guy. I'm not the guy who says, oh, I don't I don't care what other people think and I I live my life for me. I really do, but just simply because I was the kind of kid who always wanted I I enjoy my parents, uh I I enjoy it when my parents are proud of me. I like making my parents happy uh with my performance as a child. So I I can't I can't say that I'm not that person. But a lot of what I did after a certain point in my life, my mother raised us to be very independent. And at the end of the day, at the end of the day, there were so many things that that my parents did in fact leave up to us. Uh even in early, even in early adult life, it was still, you know, hey, you guys, you know, you're doing number I'm not paying for it, uh, you know, and and and you know, I'm not writing a check. Whatever you do is gonna be whatever you choose to do, and you figure out how to make it happen. And so even going through college, my entire four years of college was time spent under my own under my own auspices, really. I mean, I I just kind of was there doing what I felt like was the right thing to do. And I guess my parents trusted me because I, up until that point, had made pretty good decisions.
SPEAKER_02:That's so interesting. And I think, you know, Larry is also husband and father. Um and so I'm interested to know as you think through kind of your first act, you know, and how like ideas like success and purpose and you know, ambition, like how those were shaped kind of in some of those formative years and even through college. Um, how has that shifted the way that you are influencing the first act of your kids?
SPEAKER_01:Uh, I definitely, I definitely pride myself on, again, having been kind of a natural achiever. So, so ambition is kind of built in because success breeds success. And so one win makes you want to have another one. And that's kind of how my childhood was. My childhood was pretty much, you know, I mean, it sounds braggadocious, but I don't mean for it to sound that way. But it's like literally one win after the other. It's one win after the other, and it's just it's just what comes natural. And uh what I try to do, and I and I and I what I will also say that I am the product, and I've realized this in my adult life. I am the product of uh teachers and mentors who insisted that if you do in fact have this gifting, if you do and have, in fact, have this natural talent, that they insisted that you actualize in that. They insisted that you actually manifest the greatness that they can see. I mean, I can remember when I was a kid, I can remember certain people saying, I see what you have in you. And I at the time had no idea what they meant. But as an adult, I've kind of processed that. So, so myself, I've kind of been the product of people who made sure that what good I had in me was actually, you know, brought to fruition. And it's the same way that I do with my children. I mean, I I don't I don't force anything on them. If they were here, they would tell you, I don't actually force anything on them except for them to make sure that they are up to the to the standard that I know is already natural for them. And it just so happens that I I'm also a believer that what you're made of is is what you are. And so at the end of the day, if I look at your mom and mom is high quality and dad is high quality, then you there's no way that you're not a high quality person, also. There's no way you don't have to do what I've done, you don't have to do what she's done, but at the same time, whatever you're gonna do, you're gonna be awesome at it just simply because you come from awesome stocks.
SPEAKER_02:I love that. I love that when you talk about um just this idea of being awesome, and uh it sounds like you were just things were kind of really easy, not easy for you, but came naturally, right? And so like things like achievement seems to have come natural. When did you, as you were just kind of moving through college, and then you know, you were one of the lucky ones, got a job right out of college. I'm here to tell you that was not everybody's story. You know, I went from college and then I went to the master's, and I thought I went to two good schools. Okay, I thought I thought they was just gonna hand me that job, and they said, Man, what? Absolutely not. You know, and so what happens when you are a person that has easily achieved what happened to move you into a place where success meant something different than achievement? Like, can you identify a point when that changed?
SPEAKER_01:I think that um as as I think there are a lot of things, I guess in the first part of life, particularly when you're operating like under parent supervision, and those things, it's easy for what's in you naturally to come out because your parents provide uh and and and and uh facilitate your progression. And so there's a lot of things. All you have to do is the same thing, and and I even tell my children the same thing. Your job is going to school. All you have to do is go and you know, do your homework, do what they ask you to do in class, you know, clean up your room and do a lot of things. Everything else I'm gonna provide for you. And I think that it's easy for your natural abilities and for your natural inclination towards achievement, it's easy for that to kind of be really seemingly easy uh under those terms, under those circumstances. And when it starts to take on a different definition is when you get to the place where some of your overhead is your own responsibility. And when you get to the place where when some of your responsibilities are actual, are are actually have consequence. If you don't, if you don't make the right decision, there's actually consequences for for it that uh may be lasting consequences. And I think that's when it turns into something different, when when actually your decisions matter. Because it's okay when you're younger. When you're in high school, certainly, uh uh, and but also when you're in college, and I mean if you have the if you have the luxury of here, but but if you're the luxury, if you have the luxury of living under your parents, uh even after college, post-college, then they still make some of the decisions. So some of your decisions don't necessarily have such huge consequences. But the moment you're on your own, the moment you have to pay your own bills, the moment uh, you know, your I mean, If you pay your card payment or your insurance or whatever it is that you have to pay, the moment that stuff becomes your responsibility, then the idea of succeeding becomes critical at that point. Because if you don't suc if you don't succeed, then there's sometimes sometimes some dire, you know what I mean, some some dire circumstance that you may befall. Um, and and then it's a different conversation.
SPEAKER_02:I think that's interesting because there's a moment, because when you're kind of in that young adult stage, and when I say young adult, I mean like the high school, college age, like success is about achievement, but there does come a moment when the real world hits and success becomes survival, right? Like if I don't get this next thing, if I don't accomplish this next thing, then the things that I'm trying to uphold on my own, the weight that I'm trying to hold up, everything could literally fall through my hands. Um, I remember uh in grad school, the moment I got the pink slip on the door, okay, because I was I was, you know, paying my rent off of the the refund checks. And the refund check was running a little bit behind, okay. And the apartment comp uh, the apartment complex really did not uh care. They were really going to uh uh evict me, uh even though they knew the check and they knew the check was coming. They was like, ah still gonna need that money. Yeah, still need that money. Um, I just I think it's so interesting that like as we move through different stages of life, that our ideas of of what achievement looks like changes, you know. And I think for me, Kearns, I think that as I was moving through life, I I had to, I struggled because I'm different, right? So like I tell people all the time, I'm not as achievement motivated. I am very much um purpose and impact motivated. Like I want to know that like what I'm doing is making a difference. And it took me a while because I'm I was around a lot of achievement-motivated people. Um, and it took me a while to be comfortable with me and to learn kind of what success looked like for me. And then success changed, right? Because I I got into a role that I was really good at and I felt really good because everybody, I was getting high praises for everyone, and everyone was rah-rah, rah, and you the girl, you know, oh yeah, you know, if we got a problem, we're gonna call Jaquita. And then I switched out of that into a role where I wasn't seen as, you know, the go-to person because everybody had the juice, you know, everybody was good at something. And it it stressed me out a little bit. And so I'm wondering, kind of as you moved from, you know, college, you got that job offer right out, you know, what was the next move after that? And what was the what was the moment that you felt the most uncomfortable in that move?
SPEAKER_01:You know, I actually I want to answer your question with an anecdote because literally while you're talking and we're talking about that first job offer, that first job offer, because of the pressure, because of the conversation every day around the so-called water cooler every day in class is like, okay, well, you know, everybody wants to know what you're gonna do next. For me, because everything had come so natural, it kind of was the same thing. So, this particular job I had been working part-time, and imagine this: I've been working a job two years for part part-time. I'm graduating from college, the district manager calls me into his office and says, Hey, we want to give you keys to this building. We want to make you a manager. That sounds like that sounds like the answer, the answer to all of your problems, right? Like literally, I mean, this thing is happening just like it's been happening my whole life. It's lining right up. Boom, boom, boom. You know, I mean, here comes the job. But see, the question has to be was that the right job? Even though it was an offer that came easy, and I think this is the different definition that success takes on and achievement takes on, because there sometimes are opportunities that come to you that once you get to a certain level in life, now every opportunity is not a good opportunity. You've heard them say all money is not good money, right? Yeah. And so, so those are questions that then have to be asked. And so, to answer the question that you asked me, like the part where things shifted a little bit was as I progressed with this job, there was actually one of the people who I work with whose star I was chasing, because he got promoted, and then I got promoted to the position that he had. He got promoted to the next position, and there was a day that came when I said to him, I'm coming for you. And what you've done, I want to come in. I'm I'm I'm I'm right behind you. Like I'm I'm here, I'm coming to do the same thing that you did. And he literally looks at me squarely and he says, Larry, don't do it.
SPEAKER_02:Wow.
SPEAKER_01:And I said, What? And he literally he's he squinched, I'll never forget it. He squinched his face up and he said, Don't do it. And I said, Why? He said, just don't. And it haunted me. It haunted me for a long time after that, until guess what? I did it anyway. Wow. And later on in life, I realized why he said that. And it's kind of one of those things where it's like it looks on the outside. People will look at it and they'll say, hey, you got a position, you got a promotion, you know, you're in a role, and it looks like it's the right thing, but there's the cost of of there's the cost of that perceived success that everybody can't always see. And that's that's when the definition changes, because a lot of times people will look at your life and they'll they'll see what you show them. But the parts that you don't show them, those are the real challenges that you deal with in that role, and nobody will know it unless you unless you disclose.
SPEAKER_02:Wow. Wow. I I think that's so interesting because you know, I I often called it like having a rabbit. Like, you know, like there's somebody who is hopping along in front of you, and you're, you know, trying to hop where they've been. Um, but I think that's so interesting, is that like we're chasing what we see, but we don't always know the full weight of what they're having to hold as they're moving through those different. So when you got to the place where you had the weight, what is it that you realized that you hadn't seen that if you had known that at the time, you might have found something else to pursue?
SPEAKER_01:What happened? The what I ended up doing in accepting one promotion after the other, uh, specifically, and I and I and I would say it's in the industry because I'm I'm I'm a retail professional. I've been doing retail for my whole life and or my whole full-time working life. And what I didn't realize, and I'll be very specific, what I didn't realize is that working in that industry, it's easy to make a lot of money real fast and to really feel accomplished because they'll give you a prom because they'll give you a position. But what happens is the costs on the other side of that are your time, uh your your sense of normalcy, just because uh working in this particular industry, you work the hardest when everybody else in the world is off. And when I say when everybody else in the world is off, what that means is that when your family is off, uh you're also working the hardest. And there's a lot of times in in what I came to find out later on is that what he meant by that is that they will pay you a lot of money real fast. And once you get to a place where you're where you're over it and you're saying, I want to go do something else. The question is, how easy will it be for you to go and make that kind of money doing something new now? You will not be able to walk in the door in another industry and make the kind of money that you made as fast as you made it, accepting all of the increases and accepting all of the new positions. And that's what it was. He said, Don't do this. And he really what he meant was don't do this because you'll get stuck. You'll get stuck doing this, and as much as you may hate doing it, you won't be able to do anything else because your lifestyle won't be able to handle the change.
SPEAKER_02:Wow, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Okay. Question for you. Now that you have been in that position, and y'all, I think we're still in the first act, right, Kearns? We're still first acting. Okay. Yes. So now that you have you you kind of got to the pinnacle of your first act, right? And you what looking back, what would you have told you to do instead?
SPEAKER_01:I would have told myself to do, and when we get to the second act, this is this is the words that these are the key words that I'm going to use. Uh, but so this this is this is foreshadowing. Okay. I would have said, I would have said, see if there's something else that you can do. Like, in other words, take advantage of the safety of living in mom and dad's house.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Take advantage of the safety of that season in your life to see if there's something else that you can do. Don't be so quick to accept um the good, the quote unquote good thing that's coming your way just because it's a good thing, but look to see if there's something else. And that's what that's what it is. It's it's it's in instead, and I I hate to say that it feels like in a lot of ways I took the easy route because I didn't necessarily take the easy route. I just didn't realize that there was a shift that was happening in my life where, as opposed to the good things and the rewards for the good things just falling into place naturally, that there were some things that I may have had to stop for a minute and consider before I even allowed them to happen to me. And sometimes you have to make those choices with things that appear as success. They look like they're achievement, they look like they're they're they're trophies. But at the same time, there are some trophies that you have to stop and say, I don't want the trophy for that because that comes with a cost that I don't want to pay. Let me see if I can still get a trophy, but get a trophy in a different sport or get a trophy in a different concept. And so that's what it was. I kind of was very quick to go ahead with the process as it was already outlined. And I kind of, in effect, got somewhat, I wouldn't say steamroll. Steamrolled is strong, but steamroll was the first word that came to mind because that's what it felt like. I kind of got snowballed, is the word I'm looking for. And that's what it is. It's like one thing kept coming after the other, and after a while, the momentum of it I couldn't stop because I was in a place and I just kind of had to ride it out.
SPEAKER_02:Wow. I think that's so good. And I hope that there are some young adults listening as well as our uh amazing middle adult audience, because a lot of times we wonder why, as we're pursuing purpose and we're pursuing vision and we're pursuing what's next, we wonder like, why did I get stuck? You know, why what happened? And um, as you were talking, the word that kept coming to my mind was like quicksand. It's like I was I was moving, I was, I was pushing forward, and now I'm in a place where I'm still trying to move, but it's it's almost like what I used to have um liberty in seems like it's pulling me. It seems like it, it seems like it's holding me. Um and and you know, when I think about just different areas of my life and different areas that I've counseled other young adults through, um, I I think that that we don't emphasize enough that there is the necessity that that season of preparation that most of us like to skip over because we like to go to the next thing and the next thing and the next thing. Right. And we're chasing after that achievement and we're chasing after that level of success that we think makes us important and makes us impactful, that we are missing the things that actually grow us this way instead of growing up. You know, we're missing the things that kind of expand us versus the things that level us up. And I think that our generation, and by generation, because you know, it's different generations listening. And there are definitely different generations. Okay, current and I are both millennials. He's trying to be a Xennial today, but we're both millennials.
SPEAKER_01:Um Hey, hey.
SPEAKER_02:Hey, listen, listen. It's all middle adult over here, okay? It's I'll take it. I'll take it. Yeah. If you're giving it out, if you're giving it out, I'll take it. Listen, listen, and I'm serving it up, okay? Um but you know, I I think that we this whole pursuit of, you know, the the dream, pursuit of happiness, you know, like we're we've been taught, we've been conditioned that you just keep moving up. But there are seasons of your life where moving up and and moving or even moving on, right? It doesn't seem like a real option. Like, and the question is, what happens when you feel stuck in what I'm gonna call the intermission? You feel stuck between where you've been and where you're trying to get to. And and a lot of times that feeling of stuck is I don't know what to do next. I don't know how to move out of this place because I thought I had a formula and I've been using this formula that's not working anymore. Because what worked for younger Larry may not work for Larry that's now husband, father of two, minister, has all of these other things going on. Um, and so I I'm I'm hearing that you were kind of moving up, you were following, chasing after uh, I call it. Rabbit, what'd you call it, Kearns? I said I was chasing his star. Chasing his star. That's lovely. Right. And and um, that's just beautiful. Um, but you know, like what what happened? When did you get to the point where you said, This is not the way I I can't go this way anymore?
SPEAKER_01:I think it's what what really happened for me is after years of kind of climbing as much as I could in the in the in the paradigm that I was in, that period of stuck like happened to me. But it happened to me in a way that it happened to me in a way that I was comfortable because it was kind of on a pinnacle. You know, if you're ever in a mountain range, you know, there's ranges of mountains, right? And a mountain range has mountains of different heights. And so what happened was I kind of had gotten to a mountaintop, and so it felt like it was an okay place to stop. Wow. And there's there's kind of a catch-22 there. But what happens is you stay there long enough and you look around and you realize there are higher mountains than the one that you're on. And that's kind of that's kind of where where my mind, where my mind had to eventually get to is to the place where I felt the energy and felt the nerve, got the nerve to actually try to now get to this other, this other pinnacle because I was kind of settled where I am. And there's kind of a catch 22 there because that's a good and a bad thing. While you were talking about being in that place called stuck, what I'm normally, what what I normally like to do is now when I give people guidance, if I can tell people, like if I can look back at, you know, who I used to be, you know, kind of coming at me as a mentor, as a mentee, then I'm like, let me give you this guidance. Sometimes you have to take those those seasons in your life where it feels like you're stuck or it feels like you can't get to the next level. Sometimes you have to kind of take control of those situations and and make them purposeful, make them intentional. So at the end of the day, it's not necessarily that I'm stuck, it's just that I'm waiting. And at the end of the day, sometimes it's critical that you instead of being in such a hurry to get to this place that you yourself prescribe for yourself. Sometimes you have to just wait before you make the next choice. Because if you are somebody like myself who's been driven by achievement his whole life, it always feels like the next thing you gotta do is gotta be the next thing. You know, it's always every day, like what's next? What's new, what's bigger, what's better. And there are times when wisdom says, if you're listening to wisdom, that you should just wait. And it's it's and it's and that's it, it's even a biblical concept. You know, you can't talk to me long and long without getting, you know, getting somewhere through this message. Go ahead. Go ahead, get in there. So the biblical, the biblical concept is that you have to sometimes wait in order to get to the place that you're destined or that you're purpose to be. You can't necessarily, it's not always a steady and constant trajectory up. Sometimes you have to get to a place where you learn something, you pause for a minute, you you you you recover, you recover your energy, you recover your strength, and you get ready to now take, make the ascent to the next place. But there is that season of time where you have to wait until you get the right instructions, until you're in the right frame of mind, until you have all of the tools and the equipment that you need. Sometimes you have to wait to be refreshed on the level that you're on. Get refreshed because if you try to ascend to this next level, then you're gonna get exhausted, you're gonna run out of equipment, you're gonna run out of supplies. So sometimes, as opposed to feeling like I'm stuck and I'm not being allowed to move to that next place, sometimes it's a purposeful and an intentional wait so that you can get restocked so then you can make that next move.
SPEAKER_02:I'm sorry, Karen, because now you you don't you don't fuel dump the preacher in me now, okay? I'm over here, I'm like, okay, I got my next lesson. Okay, I know what somebody called me up for a Sunday school or something. Because what I hear you saying is is not to uh identify the moment as being stuck, but to identify it as being still. And I think that yeah, I see I told you. Yes, I tried to tell y'all, me and Kearns, we we here. Okay, we are here. But I and because I think that we don't as a culture and as especially as a generation, you know, we were raised by really industrial people who believe that you work to provide, you work, to to stay alive, you work to survive. Like what you what you should be doing at all times is thinking about how you're gonna work.
SPEAKER_01:And we were not and and not only not only that, but like with the times when you're not doing that, those things that translates to you're lazy. Or that translates to you to you to you're not ambitious, or you're actually not industrious.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. That mentality. We were not taught how to be still. And so when those moments have come, I love how you phrase that, as it's when you get to the top of the mountain, it's like you've done the climbing, you've done the learning, you've done the, you've done the the the pursuing, right? And you've gotten to a place where you're like, okay, I'm leveled out. I'm leveled out. And instead of us taking a moment, because it's in the stillness, I'm thinking about Elijah on the mountain, right? I'm thinking about him and and you know, trying to hear God in the fire, and then and then, but it was in the stillness that he heard the Lord and received directions for his next. And it was what he heard was something that nobody else could have told him to do. Nothing else, that was the only way he was going to get those specific instructions to build a vision for what the next season of his life would look like in order to keep him safe and in order to safeguard what was in him. He had to be in a still moment in order to hear that. And a lot of times, especially our middle adult friends talking to us, we don't like being still because stillness feels like failure. Somebody's gonna look or they're gonna look and say, Oh, they right where I left her. You know, they're right where I left them. You know, like somebody somebody's gonna perceive that I'm stuck instead of us being able to articulate, I'm not stuck, I'm still.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and imagine being somebody, imagine being somebody who was who has been identified among your tribe as an achiever. Imagine the season of you being still. Like after you have after you have gone so many years or for so much time in your life, always accomplishing something, always winning, always being first, always being best. And now you're at a place where you've been standing still for a period of time that makes all of the people who are in your tribe uncomfortable. Because they're accustomed, because they judge their reality and their perception of you is based on what they've always known about you. So your period of time where you're being still is not un is not just uncomfortable for you, but it's it's almost like exacerbated by the fact that it's also uncomfortable for those who are watching you. And you feel like it's almost like if you're in a busy highway and your car stalls out and all the other cars are zooming by you and you're like, yeah, I can't. And you know, that that feeling that you have when all the other cars are passing by you and you know that everybody's going by and you feel like it may not even be true, but you feel like all eyes that are passing by you by are looking at you saying, What is wrong with them?
SPEAKER_02:Bro, listen. Oh my God. That that stuck car on the interstate, that is the perfect imagery for it. Because you know that you might have help on the way, you know that you're just waiting until you get a tire fixed or until something something's a toe. You know that you're gonna be mobile again. But it's the it's the discomfort of feeling like everybody's passing you by. Yeah. Right, like and they're getting to a place that you might not be able to get to now because you've been still. You know, but it's the stillness, it's the stillness is when you're being pulled back. Right. So that you can be launched forward into something new. Um and and I definitely feel that on so many levels, I feel like I'm in a place of of stillness right now, honestly, where I'm trying to to redefine and rewrite my second act, you know. Right. I see what I see what you did there. You see what I did there? Okay. I see what you did there. I I do what I do, I do what I do. You go. But I, you know, I I I had a career that was defined a certain way. You know, I am the involvement queen, I am the person, I can host programs, I can student engagement, right? And now I'm more on this in this administrative role where I'm not doing as many involvement and engagement things, and no, and I don't know how to define myself for the season I'm going into. And it's it's a moment where you have to decide what are you gonna do in that car now that you're stuck or still, right, and you're seeing other cars, but you're in this place where you have a moment because you're not focused on driving, you're not focused on what the other people around you are doing, you're not thinking so much about your destination, you have a moment to consider yourself, right? To consider, okay, what is it that I missed in my first act that I really need to to figure out before I launch into this next one? Right. What is it? What is it that maybe I'm not as strong in this area as I need to be? Right? Where have I imbalanced work, life, career? Where where did that get imbalanced? Where did I stop seeking God in certain areas of my life? Where did I stop seeking uh uh to be perfected or to be made better in different areas? Can I rest? Yeah, can can I can I lock the doors and go to sleep real quick in this car? Okay, help is on the way. I need to go to sleep.
SPEAKER_01:All of the questions.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, you know, and so I think when we talk about this idea of an intermission, you know, um, when you think about an intermission in a in a play, again, Larry and I both come from a world of theater. Okay, we did our good acting on that stage, okay, and did, and did, and did, okay. We listen, we were more than a church play, okay. That's what I need y'all to know. Okay, we had a fantastic time on that stage together. You know, but when you think about intermission and the lights go down and everybody goes backstage, and you know, we're preparing for the second act, we're changing costumes, we're thinking through, you know, how the story is about to shift, how, you know, there resolve is coming in the second act. You know, there was a problem set up in the first act that the second act is gonna resolve. But that inner mission, right? That place of preparation, that place of reflection, where, you know, you're gonna when you come back out on that stage, you're gonna have to redefine who that character is a little bit, because that character has gone through some changes and that character is headed somewhere now. Um and so when you think about kind of your own journey, um, and the first act, and and I think you have really delineated very beautifully kind of like some of the issues that came up. And if you'd like to to further expound on any of them, you you feel free to, right? But but kind of getting to that place of stillness, what happened when Kearns went backstage and started thinking, I'm gonna have to make a pivot, I'm gonna have to shift, and I'm gonna have to redefine and rewrite some things in order to get there.
SPEAKER_01:You know, I um, you know, and and trust me when I say we can take a metaphor and we can run it all the way out forever. Let me just tell you. So you're talking to the wrong guy. You know? So I'm weird. So you know what happens, and I mean I did, and yeah, and you actually, like so you actually said what came to mind when you talked about resolution, because that's what it is. And in that period of time where you nobody's paying attention to your character. That's what happens. Like literally, the lights go down and there's nothing happening on the stage, literally, and the audience, the audience doesn't have any expectations from you. But let me tell you where the audience's expectation is built in on when you come back, because most of the time the first act ends on like a cliffhanger or ends at the at a at a at a climax of conflict. And at the end of the day, the audience has has come to expect that there's supposed to be a resolution to this. I know he's gonna come back better. I know he's gonna come back different. I know that in the second part of this thing, I know that there's gonna be an answer to that question, or there's gonna be a solution to that problem. And and so for me, that's kind of where I got to in life is that I was in that still space. I was in that still space, and I had to identify it willfully, and I had to say to myself that this is what I'm going to call this. From a biblical standpoint, there was a lot of times when they were they would fight a battle, or the Lord would would help the children of Israel uh win against a particular adversary, and they would build an altar and they would say that the name of this place is called. The name of this place is called Jehovah Jirah. You know what I mean? This is and so at the end of the day, you choose to identify the place that you're in, and you choose to identify that. And what happens is if you're good or if you're if you're if you're uh uh if you're square in your brain, you can say that I choose to call this place what it was from a victorious standpoint and not necessarily from not from a defeated place, because this is what it is. At the end of a battle that the Lord helped me to win, I can say that this is a battle that he helped me to actually be successful. And so just because I have to stay in this place doesn't necessarily mean that I've lost. And I have to remember that it is a victory that got me here.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So even in the place that you're still, however you call it, if you call it still, if you call it stuck, even in that space where you have to kind of, you know, idle there for a little bit, going back to the car, if you have to sit there and you have to idle there while you're waiting on the tow truck to come, the reality of the matter is that it could have gone differently and you may not have made it that far.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And you know, like say if you, you know, if if the car breaks down because you know, you had a flat tire, you know, at least it didn't blow out back there in the middle of heavy traffic and it caused some sort of worse accident. At least there was grace enough for you to ride it out so that you could pull off to the side of the road and learn how to celebrate the successes and the victories that led you to a place called stuff. It puts you in a better mind frame. And that's where I was. Where I was is I had learned how to appreciate where I was and had recovered, had refreshed, and was now able to clearly see the pinnacle across from where I was. So, yes, I had gotten to, I had, and and and listen, I had gotten to a place that would have been enviable by other people. Yeah. I had gotten to a place working in corporate America where, and as a matter of fact, somebody else has my job right now, and they're pleased. They're perfectly happy where they are. You know what I mean? And uh, and so that's what it is. And so you look and you don't necessarily, you don't necessarily pursue this next ascent from a negative place that says that where you are is bad. It's just that there are levels to everything. And so that's the way that I chose to look at it as if to say that where I am is great, it's fine, it would be fine for somebody else. But for me, I have to go now to this next mountain.
SPEAKER_02:I have to pursue this next type. Yeah. I love what you said earlier. It's when you when you get to the top of the mountain and you realize that there are higher mountains. Like, because a lot, but we limit ourselves in who we think we can be and what we think we can have, and and how far we think the vision can take us. But when you get when you get to the place that you've been aiming for and you look across, I love that you were able, once you got to a place that somebody else considered their pinnacle, right? Like they were like, man, this is it, this is the life. Right? You looked across and you said, I can do more, I can have more. Because one thing that I love about you, uh, Mr. Larry, as as the as the people call you, uh Mr. Larry. Uh that's that's what that's what they say. Um, is that your what you offer is not a product but a service. You know, I I think that you are in the business of making menswear something that is um attainable and something that is um is is is coveted, you know, because I think you make men proud of what they put on. Um and I think that you've done a fantastic job of building uh not just an image of what it is that you're of the product that you're providing, but just like the impact that you're hoping to have in that arena. Um and I think that when you looked across and saw that there was another mountain, right? It was a higher level of service. It was a higher, it was a higher call. It wasn't just, oh, over there there's more money and there's more success and I can have more achievement. It's there's something more for me to do.
SPEAKER_01:Um and I'm putting I don't want to put words on you, but No, you're right, you're no you're you're actually doing fine because I mean that's that and it's it's the perfect place for me to pick up. Um because that's literally that was what I those were the lessons that I learned in the first act. The lessons that I learned in the first act that is is is what I've said before. All money's not good money. Those are not necessarily always the reasons to do things. That there are sometimes there are rewards that are not that are not the classic rewards, and they're not the rewards that everybody else is pursuing. And so that's what it is. And the and the decision to do something different, because you know, if the question is just money, then you know, we could do all kinds of things to get more money. Uh, if the question is more status, you know, there's you know other things that we could do. You know what I mean? There's all but but there are. I mean, there's plenty of options. And so the choice of what you once you get to a certain place of maturity, and once you get to a certain place of uh perspective, then you look at your life differently. And I won't, I and I won't beat around the bush and kid you and tell you that that for me, crossing over the line of 40 years of age kind of didn't help me with the whole staying still and and sticking with the status quo as it had been identified in my life up until that point. So for me, so for me coming to a certain age and realizing that I was at a certain place in my career and also looking back at the person who I think I identified myself as at a younger age, it kind of was was was all of the ammunition and all of the fuel that I needed to kind of gear up for the for the ascent to the next mountain. And it's like, you know, uh every whoever wants this, they can have this, and it's not bad. I'm sure this would be great for some people. What I did at the time is I looked across and I looked around. I looked, I looked two different ways. I looked at my present and I looked at my surroundings, looked at my peers, and I said, there are a lot of people who do what I do, who have been doing it for a long time, and they probably are satisfied, they're content, and there's nothing wrong with that. That's not judgment for anybody to say that they're content in the place that they are. But for me, because achievement had kind of always been my undercurrent, then it still had to be, it still had to be par for the course that I particularly was on. And that's literally what had to happen for me is I said, okay, so now from here, what's next? And the reality is that where I was, I had achieved all of the natural, predetermined uh peaks career-wise. So literally the company that I was working for could not offer me any more peaks.
SPEAKER_02:Wow.
SPEAKER_01:And so because the company that I was working for could not offer me any more peaks, now here comes the question: is it important enough? Is it is is that other mountain important enough for you to now come down from the one that you're on so that you can now begin the climb of this higher?
SPEAKER_02:Let me tell you something. I don't care what nobody says, this metaphor is working for us.
SPEAKER_04:Yes, okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Is it worth you coming down from where you are so that you can't? Because you can't jump, you can't jump over there.
SPEAKER_01:Listen, there's not a bridge. There's no bridge. There's no bridge. You literally will have to climb down from here, and you'll have to climb the other one on your yes, yes, it's a higher it's a higher pinnacle. It is definitely it definitely has a higher peak. But it was it will require all the work that it took for you to get to the top of the one that you're on all over again to get to the top of the new one. And so the question for everybody is whether or not it's worth it. Yeah. And the answer is not the same for everybody. And and and the and and however you answer that question, for me, what I've come to learn after having done what I've done on my own, either answer is respectable. Yeah. If you look at yourself at if you look at yourself at the at the at the mountain peak that you're on, and you say to yourself, you know what, it, I don't, I don't need, I don't need it. I don't need the I don't need the bigger mountain. I don't need to make this climb. I'm good where I am, I'm good with what I've got, as it was the case for a lot of my colleagues at the time. That's respectable. There's no judgment in that. There's no judgment for me to say to you, you know what, if you're good here, so be it. I'm happy for you. Because as a matter of fact, it's almost enviable. It's almost enviable to look at somebody who can actually be content with where they are.
SPEAKER_02:Listen, uh a point that I had earlier is that the the plight of the gifted kids, of the ones who achieve, the ones who everybody, you know, I I I remember uh people always telling me, oh, you just have so much potential. The pressure of that. Yes, the pressure of feeling like I have to live up to this idea of being the best and being great. You know, greatness, there's a lot of pressure in that. Um, and so I think it's heavy, heavy weighs the head. What is it? What does it say? Heavy is the head that wears the crown? Yeah. And it's these are not, these are when you talk about uh the crowns that are given because of just natural ability, you know, like you know, like uh I'm looking right now, thinking about like our WNBA players who are just out there playing a game, but there's so much chatter about everything about them, right? Because there's a spotlight, and a lot of people can't handle what happens, what gets revealed when the light is shined on you. But there's almost this expectation from people who have been who are naturally uh achievement oriented, are naturally successful, and naturally just kind of there is this expectation of oh, you'll be fine. And there's not always as much support offered because you've always been fine. And when you're not fine, it's like hello.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And then you know, and that's what I mean. That's an experience that I can identify with because that's what happens when you're naturally talented, when you're naturally gifted, and when things always seem to work out for you, it it is hard to find support because nobody thinks you need help because things come so easily to you, because things come so naturally for you. Then when the times come, it's almost like you're by default, not even actively and intentionally, but you're like by default a boy who cried wolf. Because anybody who ever came and tried to help you before, you didn't really need anybody's help before. And so now when the times come when things get challenging for you on your level, then people can't sustain it. People don't know what to do for you because they've always most of the time because they put you on some kind of pedestal. They put you on a pedestal, and so they expect for you to be able to figure it out because everything always works out for you anyway. And so that's when it gets tough, and that's when it doesn't the burden and the pressure of being gifted. That that's when that starts to get even even more so than it already is. It's already bad enough. The pressure is already intense enough, but the pressure gets more intense when you look around for support. And as a mentor, I'm not a business mentor that I used to have years ago, he said it's lonely at the top. And at the end of the day, it's because nobody because it's hard to find people who identify with where you are, it's hard to find people who have the resources or the talent to be able to assist you in any way, and it's hard to get people to even understand that somebody who was capable of achieving what you have achieved now somehow needs somebody else or somehow needs something else to aid you.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I I think it's interesting. I think people understand the ascent, they understand the going up, they don't always understand the coming down.
SPEAKER_01:Sure, sure. And they don't understand that that part that that's a part of it. In order to get to the new height, and as a matter of fact, what people won't realize is that when you're coming down, they'll look at it and almost judge you for it as opposed to understanding that coming down is a part of the process of going up to the next level.
SPEAKER_02:That's good. That's so good, Kearns. Because I I think we we as we're watching, even going back to kind of those rabbits and those following someone's star, you said. Um chasing after their star. Right. We we we are chasing after the ascent, but we don't always know areas or times or periods in their lives where they had the descent, where they had to come down in order to go back up. You know, I I believe that the first mentor that you talked about, he was literally telling you, like, hey, I I I'm probably on my way down. You know, like this this may not be for me, you know, and and I but when you think about pivoting, you know, a lot of times we don't think about pivoting, meaning I gotta walk down somewhere. And that might mean being in a valley for a little bit. That might not that might mean not having all of the resources that you thought you would have had or having all of the support that you thought you would need. It's gonna it's gonna be a a season of redefining you and a season of redefining how you're gonna pursue the next thing because you cannot pursue the next thing like you did the last.
SPEAKER_01:But you know the best person? I mean, the best person to tell you that is, I mean, you I mean, you identified it, I mean, perfectly, because along that journey, even chasing somebody's star, a lot of times they may not be able to articulate it, but they are telling you exactly what it requires. And that is somebody who's already been there. Somebody who's already been there or somebody who has gotten to that level ahead of you, it's still not, it's not wrong to still be after them, but also understand when they're telling you that this thing has but this road has bumps in it, that there are not only just they're not just hills, but there are also valleys in this. And that's all he was telling me. All he was telling me is that you may want to reconsider whether or not this thing is what you want to do, because again, the choice to come down from here so that you can get to the next place is not for everybody. And whatever your choice is, is respectable as long as you make your choice willingly, as long as you make your decision intentionally. So it's like he's saying to me, if you don't want to go through what I'm going through, don't do this.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But at the end of the day, if you want to keep if you want to keep going this way, just understand that the thing that I'm going through now is a part of this process.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Just because sometimes doesn't mean it's not worth it.
SPEAKER_01:That's exactly right. So I mean this and everything has a price. Every good and every service, everything that you could possibly attain in life, it has a cost. It just matters whether or not it's a cost that you want to pay.
SPEAKER_02:Listen, that's that's good. All right, Curns. I want to make sure we talk about the SOC ministry. Talk to me about going up that nut that next mountain, right? You left One World. Talk to me about entering into your second act. What happened when you decided to leave or descend that first mountain and head up the next one?
SPEAKER_01:So um I again, I like I said, I've I've I've basically my career has been fully, fully spent working in the retail space. I've worked in uh several different genres. I've dealt with uh all different kinds of products. And so there's two things to my persona professionally as it is right now. Um and and and what I work with right now and where I found my niche has been in men's apparel. Uh it actually was my first, my first retail job was in a in a men's boutique, very much like the one that I own now. But the other part of me is that I'm actually a generic retail person. So without regard to the product category, then a lot of the workings of a retail store, that's my vortex. So I had been doing that for a long time and had really had, and and all of the all of the the ranks that you rise through, I had risen through the ranks across a few different genres. And so I finally got myself to the place where I had been promoted to be a general manager of a store, a big box store. I worked in big box retail. Uh I I was I was promoted to be the general manager of a big box store. And then I got to a place, and this is this is the climb of this of this initial mountain, right? And then I finally got to a place where I could walk in the door and apply for the general manager job.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And the question is, why are you qualified for the general manager job? And it's because I held all of the positions before this. That's all of the, all of the all of the the positions that lead to this job, I've already done them all. I've already succeeded at them all. I'm now qualified to do this job. Uh I'm qualified to train them, I'm qualified to excel them. If you put me in any of those positions, I will run circles around any of the people who do those jobs. That's why I'm qualified to be the general manager. So I did that. Uh in my in my last assignment, I did that for several years. And what happened was over time, number one, I developed a following. So working in the men's apparel space, I developed a following of people who would literally come to me for my guidance or come to me for my from for to to assist them with whatever their needs were, whatever their projects were, whatever the impression that they were trying to make, whoever the audience was, and they would come to me and I would constantly have to push back and tell people, I'm not a salesperson, I'm the general manager here. Let me refer you to a salesperson. And without fail, I would have customers who would come to me and they would say, Larry, I understand that, but I still want you to be the person who helps me. And and so it clicked in my brain. So, and this is what I mean when I say that it's not always money, it's not always the reward. So I found myself in a place of complacency. And the complacency, I would always ask myself, what is it that's bothering me? Is it the people on the on this side of the counter? Is it the people on this side of the counter, or is it something else that's bothering me? And what I ultimately came to the conclusion of is that it was neither of those things that was bothering me. It was the fact that when people come to me and ask me for a solution, I'm bound by what this place provides in my ability to provide an appropriate solution for them. And that I realized is the essence of what really, I think that's probably one of my one of one of the things that uh bothers me on an existential level. I cannot stand for my performance to be based on the performance of somebody else. I cannot stand for the perception of what I do to be based on the work that somebody else does or does not do. So I cannot stand for somebody to judge me based on something that was that was reliant or dependent on what somebody else did. And so I've never been good with group projects. I've never been good, I've never been good professionally. This is the truth. Professionally, if you looked at all of my uh my performance reviews, like the one thing that I constantly get trapped about is delegation. Because I'm not that guy. I'm the person who I have all confidence in what I can do. I have all confidence in my ability, my knowledge, and my motivation. And so it's hard sometimes when something, when you know that your reputation or the perception of your performance is riding on something, sometimes it's hard to trust other people with that. Yeah. And that's where I found myself in this corporate world is that customers will come to me and they say, Larry, I need you to provide a solution for me. And I would say, My hands are tied because they will only let me do so much. Yeah. And so I get I had done that enough. And I had to come to a to come to a conclusion. And I had a couple people whispering in my ear, and I had a couple people, again, whose stars I was chasing. And and I and I and I I would ask the question, how hard is it to do this on your own? Wow. And ultimately the decision that I made to launch out and to do what I'm doing now on my own is honestly, it's because I wanted the ability, the flexibility, and the agility to be able to determine how I serviced my customers on my own volition. I'm a person who's not afraid of responsibility. I'm not afraid of accountability. So if my decisions are wrong, I'm okay with that. I can deal with as long as it's me who did it. So my own failures, I'm not afraid of. But it's it's other people's failures that consequentially end up being my failures by association. Those are the ones I can't deal with. And so I made, I made this leap into entrepreneurship uh six years ago, and I did it just simply because I wanted to be able to, I wanted to be able to influence my own outcomes. I wanted to be able to create an environment that I could control in so much that, to your point, it was a high, it was a it was another level of service, but I could also, I could, I could l legitimately have people come to me and say, Larry, I need you to do something for me. And now, unlike before, now you're talking to the right guy. Because now this guy is equipped, this guy's empowered to be able to do what you need.
SPEAKER_02:And so here I am. I love that. So where do you see yourself? Because I think the difference between kind of climbing a corporate mountain versus climbing like this mountain of entrepreneurship, like these are these are different ascents. What's been kind of the difference in in what you've experienced? Hardship, challenges, obstacles, um that, you know, I feel I'm sure some things did prepare you from the last climb, but what things did you not kind of see coming um in your second act?
SPEAKER_01:So let me let me say that I'll I'm the first person to tell everybody that number one, let me just say don't believe the hype that every time somebody tells you that, oh, we all should be our own bosses and we all should work for ourselves, and you know, we we need don't don't believe that because entrepreneurship listen, entrepreneurship is not for everybody, number one. I learned that, I know that from experience, but let me go back and say this that I was not that person, it is not my testimony that corporate America was treating me wrong. Yeah. There's a lot of people who say that they get into entrepreneurship because, oh, oh, the man was holding me down and I couldn't, you know, there was this glass ceiling, and there was this, and it that wasn't my testimony. Uh, my life, my lifestyle, my family were taken care of very well working in corporate America. And so the choice to move to entrepreneurship for me was not motivated by those material, tangible type things. The move for me was more intrinsic. That and the value that I derived from this is more intrinsic. Let me just say that. Uh, but I will say that some of the things that I've learned along the way is that as much as I wanted to say uh that I cared about my my the business that I worked for. When I worked in corporate America, I wanted to say that because it was my responsibility, I wanted to say, you know, hey, this is my baby, this is my thing, you know, I'm here, I'm committed to it, I'm loyal to it, and I and I really do care whether or not it's successful. And I realized this that when I make the transition into doing something on my own, I didn't care as much about my job in corporate America or the business that I was working for as I thought I did, because when it's all your own, then if you don't care, nobody cares about it. That's when that's when you that's when you understand that there's levels to care. There are definitely levels to caring. You care, but you didn't care that much because if that business sank sank or swam, it rose or fell, you get a check every week. But if you don't care about this, if you if you you can be nonchalant if you want to, and let people tell you, oh, well, if you own your business, you can come and go as you please. You can make your own schedule, you can do how you want to do it. Yeah. But at the same time, there are certain things that the forces of the market, whatever the market that you're in, those there are market forces in place that will actually absolutely dictate to you what you must do. There are certain things that, though I would love to be able to do them a certain kind of way, I better not do them that way because otherwise this ship is going to sink.
SPEAKER_02:Woo wee. I feel like there are a lot of people listening who believe that their second act might be entrepreneurship. Whether that looks like opening a business, for me, you know, I really want to move forward in like motivational speaking things. I want to do that while working my job, though. I just want to be clear. Uh I want to do both. Um, you know, right? There there are there may be people who want to kind of pursue this, you know, mountain of self-actualization and running something that's your baby. What would you tell them now? Because you're you said you how many years in it? Oh six years. Six years flew, Kearns. It flew, right? It flew, right? You're gonna talk about you're six years in, but there's somebody now who's at the bottom, at the base of the mountain, right? And they they're they're about to begin, you know, they're just getting their, you know, paperwork in to maybe start something. What is something as you reflect on six years? What is it that you want them to know? What what words of encouragement would you offer someone who is opening up that chapter?
SPEAKER_01:Very likely, I probably would go back to my career in corporate America and that guy who I was looking at, I probably would yell down to them, don't do it, is very likely what I would say. Yes, don't please, don't do it. But no, but I but I mean a lot of the things that I've said are pretty much what I would say to them. Um I uh you know, I obviously make calculated moves. Do not do anything impulsively, and it is it is legitimately true that you should not make one move. My dad told me years ago, he said, as much as you may hate your job, he said you never leave a job until you absolutely have another job to go to.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:He said, but I will tell you this also the next job, you're gonna hate it too. So be careful. Be careful because everything, listen, the grass, we have all heard the cliche and we've played out the story of why the grass the grass may appear to be greener, but there's a reason why the grass is greener is because it is rich in fertilizer over there in that pasture where the grass is greener.
SPEAKER_02:How about the fertilizer currents?
SPEAKER_01:Yes, yes, indeed. And so that's what I would that's what I would tell people is that you know, be sure, be sure that it's what you want to do. And I and I and I'll just add, I'll just add kind of as a sidebar reference to say that it's the same thing I tell people about marriage. People, if you listen to me, you may think, if you're not listening with the right ears, you may think that I'm anti-marriage because there's a lot of cases where I tell people, in fact, don't do it. But it's not because of marriage, it's because of the person that you have to be in order to be able to be successful in marriage. And so that's what I'm talking. I'm telling when after I talk to you for a little while, I will tell you that if you're not prepared for the tough times, if you're not prepared for it to be difficult, if you're not prepared for the evolution that people inevitably go through over time, then don't do it because you'll do nothing but ruin your life and ruin somebody else's. And the same thing, this leap into entrepreneurship, I will say exactly the same thing. There are times that are going to be hard, there are times that are going to be confusing, there are gonna be lean times that you're not gonna be able to, you're not gonna be able to rationalize how you allowed yourself to be in this position. And if you're not ready for the times as difficult as they may be, then don't do this. As a matter of fact, like literally, I had a job interview years ago, and it changed my life because I walked into the job interview, and the person who on the other end of the desk said to me, I'm gonna tell you all of the worst things about this job because my goal is to make you not want it anymore.
SPEAKER_02:Wow.
SPEAKER_01:And I when he said that, I thought, what? And I realized, and uh, and of course, in subsequent years that have followed, I perfectly completely understand it. Because if there's anything that you can learn before you make a decision that makes you not want to do it based on what you heard about it before you did it, it's for the best that you not do it. Because what you don't what you want to do is you want to know how bad it could be before you actually decide to do it. And you don't want to find that out while you're in it. You don't want to find out all of the worst things about it once you've already made that decision. Because here's the thing: there's sometimes when you when you try to make the ascent to that other mountain, there's sometimes you realize in the ascent up that other mountain, you'll have second thoughts and you'll want to get back to this other pinnacle, and you can't because guess what? Now that mountain peak is occupied by somebody else, and you don't have the option to go back where you were. And so the question has to be answered whether or not it's worth it for you to leave this place forever without the option of going back, so that you could get to this next thing.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And and and and again, the answer to the question either way is respectable. But I absolutely would tell people number one, number one, be prepared for it to be as bad as it could possibly get. And are and and answer the question for yourself are you ready for that? But number two, and most importantly, find somebody who's already done it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And and don't get your answer from the crowd. Don't get your answer from all the people in your circle. So the best thing for you to do is gonna be good. Well, because here's the thing. When we're trying to, this in we're taking we're still running this, we're gonna run this metaphor all the way out. A mountain, a mountain is gonna hate to see us coming after this conversation. I love it. So, like in the mountain metaphor, like literally, what we're trying to do is we're trying to go up. But where we take all of our guidance from is all of the people all around us. And the reality of the matter is they can't tell you what it's gonna be like up there. They can't tell you what the atmosphere is gonna be like, they can't tell you how the temperature is gonna shift, they can't tell you all of the things, and so they may be encouraging, yeah, yeah, go do that. Go do that thing. That's gonna be great. You're gonna be awesome. Oh, yeah, that's perfect for you. You're just the right person for that. But they can't tell you that. What you need is for somebody who's already been there, somebody who's already been to the top of that mountain, and they look at you and they say, if you're gonna do this, you're gonna need this because you don't have it. If you're gonna do this, you're gonna have to add this because you don't you don't have that. Oh, you don't have this degree? You don't have this degree, degree? Oh, yeah, yeah, you can't do this. Oh yeah, yeah. Oh, you oh, you know, you you know, you've got this responsibility and this responsibility and this responsibility. You're not gonna have time to do this if you got to do all that stuff too. You have to give that stuff up. That's from somebody who already knows. And that's who some that's who you need. You need to definitely have somebody in your ear who's gonna tell you the truth, and their their truth being based on experience, not based on speculation.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. No, that's good. Uh uh the thing that um came to mind as you were talking is that as you are climbing that mountain and you're going up that second and you're beginning that second act, is remember the intermission. Remember what you heard in stillness, because that I think has to be the foundation that keeps you going. Like the motivation came from what you got when you were in a place of rest, and when you were in a place, and so and I think even as you're climbing a mountain, when you're climbing a big mountain, you can't climb all day. There has to be there has to be pit stops, right? There has to be checkpoints, and you have to make sure that even as you're climbing, you're still finding those places to be still, to reflect, and to re to reconnect with your reasons and with your with your pursuit, the why of your pursuit. Um, because I think it can get discouraging when especially when you've already climbed that first mountain. Be like, I didn't sign up to be a mountain climber. Right. Why am I still why am I still going? You know, but you have to remember that where you're headed to, um, and the and the new vision that you're pursuing after, the impact of it, the uh the the vastness of it, it's worth it. Yeah. It's worth it.
SPEAKER_01:It's worth it. And I think and I and I think and I think you said exactly the right thing. Uh, you know, when you say that you have to stop along the way and remind yourself of your whys. Number one, obviously, before you make the decision, make sure that your why is a good why.
SPEAKER_02:That's good.
SPEAKER_01:You know, don't let it be a superficial why. And let me just tell anybody who's listening, anybody who's watching, money is not a good why. Status is not a good why. It works for some people, but trust me when I say it's much easier. It's much easier than you think to get those two things. So there has to be something else that the amount of sacrifice that you're gonna put up with or the amount of sacrifice that you're gonna have to make is worth. And um, and so and so that's that's number one question. But when you say remind yourself of the wise along the way, it's because it's almost like the children of Israel, they they get led into the wilderness after leaving Egypt. And so where they think they're going or where where they're ultimately going to go to is the promised land. But they gotta go through the wilderness to get it. It really only takes like a week and a half to get to the promised land from Egypt. But they're in the middle of their wilderness situation and in the middle of those journeys, in the middle of this journey, and all of a sudden they start thinking back to what they had in Egypt. It was a it was a bondage situation. They were in bondage for 400 years. And and and then this journey that that could possibly only take them a week and a half, they start reminiscing on what they had when they were back there. And I would say that this is this is the danger in making this kind of journey professionally, is that you start looking and you start longing for what you gave up in order to make the journey, to make the trick that you're making now to move to this to this new level in your in your career or in your professional life. And that's that's that's something that you also need somebody who's been there to tell you, uh-uh-uh, no, no, no, don't stop. Don't stop right there. And somebody who can identify with it. Sometimes that's all you need. Sometimes all you need is for somebody to say, the way that you feel right now is right. I felt it too. Keep going anyway, though. Yeah. And that and that's that, and I found that to be invaluable. I have I have two specific mentors that literally, when times get hard, and there are certain times when I stand at my front door and I say to myself, I'm not gonna open this door again. And before I make uh before I make the rash decision to do that, I literally will call one of my mentors and I will say, tell me that what I'm thinking is wrong. And they will, without fail, they will do that. They will say, Larry, you got it. You got you got what it takes. I'm proud of you. They'll say something that encourages, or, or they'll say this, oh no, Larry, I feel the same way. And I'm like, somehow or another, that, you know, it is true when they say that misery loves company, right? But sometimes there's the what what what uh what the Bible calls the fellowship of suffering. And at the end of the day, sometimes to know that somebody who has already made it to where you're going or where you're trying to go, to know that they deal with some of the same things that you deal with, somehow or another, it kind of reconciles with you to say, I must be doing something right if what I'm going through is the same thing that the person who's there is going through, also.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And so that and so that so so for me, that's kind of that that's kind of where my mind goes when it comes to making a transition like that, that those pauses along the way to stop for a minute and remind yourself that my why is worth it. Yeah. And now I've got enough strength to keep going. Listen. Because other because otherwise, otherwise those times right there could literally make you turn back around and and go and go back.
SPEAKER_02:I know it's outside perspective looking in. You know, I've I've been to the shop a few times because unfortunately I don't wear ties and menswear. Um, but anytime I can buy something for someone that does, and anytime the Lord brings someone in my life, you know I'm sending them right to you. But I absolutely, without a doubt, know that you have been impactful and that you have made an indelible mark here in the upstate um for both menswear and the people who love the men who wear your menswear. And I I appreciate, we the women appreciate you dressing our wheeling up again. Okay. Wait, what did you say? It's not dressed up, it's just dressed.
SPEAKER_01:Not dressed up, just dressed, because we, you know, we we have kind of gotten really, really laid back and really, really casual. We had already done it, but certainly in these post-COVID years, we definitely have preferred comfort um over uh uh aesthetic. Uh and so what we try to do is we try to try to reach back to a time when being well dressed and being intentional about getting dressed uh is more your norm and not so much your exception. And so when you when I go somewhere, now don't get me wrong, it's tough. It's tough in this world to do it, but like it's been my responsibility to kind of model certain things. And so I ask I I'm I'm seeking for people to say to me, what you all dressed up for? So that I can answer to them, nope, nope, nope. This is just dress, this is not dressed up. Oh, wait till I get dressed up. If you're impressed by this, wait until I get dressed up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I'm gonna be able to do that. So so let me tell you what I'm amazed by, just specifically given what I do. The reward for me, and this is this is getting back to my why. The reward is that there are so many people that when you get a chance to see somebody, number one, um I get a chance to be a part of people's milestones. So I get a chance to dress them for the prom, I get a chance to dress them for their graduations, I get a chance to dress them for their first interviews, I get a chance to dress them for their weddings. And and this is gonna sound crazy, but I also get a chance to dress people for their funerals. And believe it or not, there's rewards in that too, for the family to come and trust you to say that this is the last outfit my grandfather's ever gonna wear, and for them to trust my opinion to get granddad right for everybody to see him one last time. There's honor in that too. And and and so so for me, it means so much, and it there's such an emotional component to it, and my job is to try to see if we can't maximize and to see if we can't uh increase the frequency of those moments where if you feel so good when you look good, let's see if we can't get you looking good more often.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. Okay, Kern. So the men and the people who love the men, okay, they are looking to uh to come visit and to get dressed, right? And to find uh all of the things that you're offering. How can they get in contact with you? Where can they find you, and how can they follow you on the socials?
SPEAKER_01:So, first of all, social media, Facebook and Instagram, I am the Sock Ministry, three all three words, TheSock Ministry on Instagram and on Facebook. Um, you can also come if you're if you're in the upstate South Carolina area, I'd love to see you. Um, we can you can meet me here in beautiful downtown Fountain End, South Carolina at 115 North Main Street uh in Fountain End, South Carolina. And I'm proud to say uh that there are also uh uh some great finds that you can find on the sockministry.com.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I love it. And y'all, he make sure you follow those pages because Larry goes live sometimes and he offers some really good sales and discounts. Every time he goes live, I'm sending to my people. I'm like, hey y'all, man, he better catch it. Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you so much for doing that.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, so we want to continue to support you. I am, I don't know if I've ever said it before, but I want to say it now. I am proud of you, and I have really admired what you've done and how you left one thing and pursued something. And I really think that the more you continue to push toward it, I think you're gonna see that the vision is bigger than you expected it to be. Um, and so I love how the sky keeps broadening open for you. And so I'm excited to see what you continue to do, brother.
SPEAKER_01:I'm honored, I'm honored. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. I appreciate your kind words too. Uh, that means the world to me. You know, that's that's what we try to that's what we try to do. Try to see if we can't do something impactful in this world and uh try to make a difference. You know, if it if it if there's just a couple bumps along the way, it's worth it if uh if people ultimately are pleased with what we know.
SPEAKER_02:Um I'm absolutely I think you're exceptional, brilliant, all the things. You know, you know, this is my brother right here, y'all. This is my brother. You better know it. You better know it. Listen, I feel like, guys, there were so many gems dropped along the way. I hope that you found yourself somewhere in this amazing story, somewhere along one of these mountains. I know that you are either in an ascent or in a descent. And I want you to rest assured that whatever area of your life that you're looking at, right, whether you're looking up or you're beginning to look down as you kind of move into the next thing, I want you to know that it doesn't matter where you are, in the stillness of God, you can find peace and you can find answers that will give you a resolve, right? And so I don't want you as you continue to move forward, I don't want you to stay stuck in intermission or still, I want you to raise the curtain so that you can move into your second act, y'all. That's the first episode. We'll holla at y'all later.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you once again for listening to the Unlearned Podcast. We would love to hear your comments and your feedback about the episode. Feel free to follow us on Facebook and Instagram and to let us know what you think. We're looking forward to the next time when we are able to unlearn together to move forward towards freedom. See you there.
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