Single In Leadership: I Swiped the Wrong Way And Met My Husband

We share how choosing a partner as a leader starts with self-knowledge, honest community, and shrinking the list to core values. Ruth Abigail walks through leaving a Velcro situationship, reframing online dating, and finding a partner who frees her to lead.

• priorities in early 30s: debt freedom, home buying, career growth
• writing and community work building emotional clarity
• rethinking online dating as a tool for conversation
• how community ends unhealthy attachments
• COVID capacity exposing misfit relationships
• protecting leadership identity inside romance
• authenticity on apps and whole-self profiles
• non-impressed confidence as a green flag
• direction vs pace: initiative with discernment
• stop measuring partners against internet formulas
• core values over changeable traits
• private-life fit over public image
• mutual growth, humility, and teachability
• everyday signals of freedom to lead

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Transcript

Welcome & Episode Setup

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Yo, yo, yo, what's up, everybody? And welcome once again to the Unlearned Podcast. I'm your host with that Miguel, aka R A.

SPEAKER_01 0:11

What's up, people? It's your girl, Jaquita.

SPEAKER_00 0:14

This is the podcast that is helping you gain the courage to change your mind so that you can experience more freedom. And now I'm gonna pass it to Jakuita. Listen, guys, all right.

Introducing Ruth Abigail’s Story

Single In Your 30s: Priorities And Purpose

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Listen, okay. It's gonna be a great time. We are set for a wonderful show. Uh today we are actually gonna be interviewing Miss Ruth Abigail Gardner, okay? Um talking about her relationship journey and what it, what her experiences were in choosing the right person as a leader. Okay. So, you know, when I think about kind of like having a person, right? The older I've gotten in my 30s, you know, like the the more I think about like how he has to be the right one. Sure. You know, I feel like, you know, in your 20s, like your list is a little more general. Like, hey, you know, wanting to love God, you know, love, you know, his community, you know, be a leader, you know, be a provider, you know, really general things. But as I've gotten older into these middle adult years, right, I feel like I've gotten a little bit more specific in what I'm looking for because I know more about me, right? And so Ruth Abigail is a person who um was single for a number of years, right? And then found the one, my brother, right? And he is just the absolute perfect match for her. So want to just kind of dig a little bit deeper into that journey and see what gems we can unearth. Ah right. The gems. The gems. I want to pull them out. Okay. All right, we're on a we're we are on a treasure hunt. All right, so let's see what we get. So, Ruth Abigail, why don't you start off by, you know, I really want to learn. Let's, you know, you're not single, just want to be clear about that. You know, we're gonna take that plainly. She's single. Okay, she's taken off the market, you know what I'm saying? Okay, so uh, yeah, you know, that's for you, Ty. That's for you. Sure. Um, but I do want to travel back to some of your single years, um, and just thinking about, you know, we talk a lot on our podcast about kind of the different ways we see leadership um between our young adult years and our middle adult years, but I want you to start from single middle adult, right? So think early 30s. What was that time period like for you as you felt like you were just kind of like waiting on that person? What was the waiting season like for you? And especially as you were also growing as a leader, but also growing and waiting.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Um uh first of all, I'd like to acknowledge that this is very weird. And um, although, you know, I participated in the idea of doing this, um, I somehow regret it a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

Okay, so she almost came up with the idea, so I don't know why she's tripping.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Yeah, I it's weird. It's weird. I that was good in theory. Okay, so um single journey 30s. Hmm, okay. Where was I at 30? Okay, let's see. Um I think I was okay, so in that time for me, it really was about, I think I was um working on my finances a lot personally. Like that was kind of a big goal of mine was to get out of debt. Yeah, and so I was in the middle of that journey and was really focused on that. Like I was just like, hey, I I'm gonna I want to get out of debt.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

I was very focused, right? Really focused. I was really, really focused.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

And I uh I said I want to be out of debt by the time I'm 31, and which I did. And then um I ended up to that man.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

Thank you. It's a lot of people who want to be right where you at, so that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

It's a good place to be. I ain't gonna lie about it. So um did that and then I moved in with my parents, and which was weird because I was I moved in with my parents to save money to buy a house. I ended up staying there twice as long as I needed to because, uh, or as I wanted to, because my car went out and I had to buy a new car before I did the house. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I ended up staying there for like two years as opposed to like one. So that was weird. So I had to kind of like wrestle with that a little bit. Like uh here I am, like early 30s, and I moved back in with my parents. That was not the plan, right? Um, and then during that time, I also started doing some, you know, online dating. Uh, we're not there, but that was that that's how that transitioned. I was, you know, kind of all in on my career. I was doing training for youth workers at that time. We were also growing Angel Street at that time, and I was doing some organizing work with an organization like of social justice. I was doing a lot of that. Like I was just I was doing a lot of working, a lot of community stuff. Um, and that's what that's what my life was like. And I I really wasn't, I don't think I was super focused on dating or finding somebody at that time.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

You know, it's funny because Ruth Abigail's approach, like toward the beginning of every year, Ruth Abigail, me, Ruth, and Joy would literally be on the phone every single year. And Ruth Abigail would be like, guys, 2021, yeah, right, is our year. Our year, absolutely. Literally every year she was saying that, and then for the rest of the year, she wasn't focused on it. You know, like we, you know, we would we would bring it up occasionally, like, hey guys, remember, this is our year, right? Uh and then, but Ruth, you know, I would be over here, you know, trying to find somebody, and Ruth was so like focused on her goals and what she wanted to accomplish, which, you know, I think is amazing. So I think kind of based off of what you just said, like, can you pinpoint just kind of in those early 30s, like, what were what were your priorities? Like just name them out. What were kind of like the set priorities of what you were pursuing during that season of your life?

Creativity, Community Work, And Identity

SPEAKER_00 6:40

Getting out of debt, buying a house, yeah, and just doing well at my work. That that was my those were my priorities, really. Like, um, and I think, you know, on the relationship side was really like just being a great friend, um, and being a great daughter, especially since I was living at the house, right? I was trying to like, you know, I figure that out.

unknown 7:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

Trying to, you know, make sure everybody's good. Trying to do that.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

I also had a a stick because I I started a blog. And I think this is also when my like oh yeah, yeah, mine to ink. Yeah, well, yeah, mine to ink. Uh, so I started doing like this kind of um public, more public-facing communication uh around that time. And I started a blog called Single 30 and Living at Home. Do you remember that? Girl, yeah, you showed me. And I I had a moment where I mean I wrote for like a few days. I just wrote, I came home and just wrote. And um, that was kind of my entryway into communicating with the public. So started this blog that kind of chronicled how I was where I was at that at that season of my life. Uh when I tell you I forgot about that. Man, I did too. I just like too literally just now. Like, I was like, dang. Um, I was 431 living at home.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

And that that was like I remember I specifically remember us having a conversation, like, we're gonna make a movie, guys. Oh my yes, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 8:16

Like, you know, our experience is so unique. Yeah, yeah. We yeah, I I I really so like that was also something I was focused on. Was like kind of where is my creative, my where's my creativity leading me right now? Um, and writing was just something I was just into.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

But okay, so that's that's really cool. You know, I think, you know, I I just said something and I'm gonna ret not retract it, but kind of edit it a little bit because I think at that time we also had this mindset of, you know, there are just so few people who are experiencing what we are experiencing, and and not so few people who are unmarried, but so few people, you know, Ruth Abigail and I kind of were in a similar boat of we did not date a lot. Right, you know, right? There were there were no real past relationships, yeah. Um, you know, and by not a lot, I mean not at all.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Um that's that's very true.

Why Online Dating Became A Tool

SPEAKER_01 9:17

There like, and at the time, I really thought I was like, this is a really unique experience. But as I have talked with other middle adults, you know, we are not out here in these streets. You know? I I think I think it's a different experience, especially for black women. Um, you know, I feel like we have we have we have really become kind of ice, not isolated, but we are either it's something that we're waiting on to kind of like push us into that into that dating season, or we're looking for somebody to come get us. Like, hello, does anybody, yeah, anybody see me, come get me. Yeah, right. I'm interested in knowing, right, what pulled you out of the my priorities are really kind of cemented in work and finances and kind of building up my own solo life, buying houses, buying cars, right? What pulled you out of that and into the dating world? How did you transition?

SPEAKER_00 10:29

Yeah, um, I I was actually it was probably a conversation with my father. And uh he took me to lunch one day. We are Jay Alexander's, and um he asked me, he said, have you you know, have you tried online dating? To which I was like, This is like 2018. It was not popular, and it was still the way I saw it was. So, okay, and this is no offense to anyone, but this is just what was that was the way this is the way I saw it. Was this was for older people or divorced people, and I don't want to have anything to do with it. No, seriously. No, that's what it was, that's what I thought it was for, and and it wasn't cool. Like it, I felt like I would never tell anyone I was ever doing online dating. Like, I'm too young to do online dating, like I should be doing real dating. That's not even real dating. Like in my mind, that's what it was. And so, but my father, he he was like, you know, you ought to try because he knew because the reality was number one, I'm very busy, right? I have a lot going on. And I wasn't I wasn't at a place where I was like gonna give that up. Like I was like, nah, this is what I do, this is my life. Like I'm I want to do this. And so he knew that. And he asked me, and I and and so he just kind of uh helped me to um unlearn what online dating was. Like it's not a it's a tool, like it, it that's that's what it was. And he was like, it's just a tool, like it's just like anything else. And you know, my father's a pastor, so he talks to a ton of people, and he he was just like, Hey, you should try it, you know. People your age are doing it, you should try it. But we're just not talking about it, but it's happening. So I decided to give it a shot. And that was kind of my my entry point into dating at that point. I think that what really moved me there was I was starting to believe that I had done as much as I could with my life by myself. Like I I I I didn't really know how else to make my life better by myself. Um and I said, you know, I feel like I need a partner to enhance w whatever it is, you know, what the remaining what what the next years of my life is, because I just I kind of felt like I hit a ceiling of what Ruth Abigail could do, you know, um, alone. I I just felt like I wasn't gonna go much further alone. I needed partnership for that. So that was a little bit of where my mind was. Yeah, because I I just I'm a person who likes to grow. Like I'm a I'm oh that's just who I am. Um and I think that that was a piece of it. I also think like even relationally, like I feel like I have more to give relationally, and I don't know how to do that currently, right? Like, and I feel like it's just the the next level. I feel like I'm maximizing everything that I know to maximize right now, relationally in community, financially, work-wise, like I'm maximizing it, and I think I need more to maximize. Yeah, that's kind of where I'm gonna do it.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

That makes sense. Um I'm I'm wondering, um, as you're thinking through kind of that that place that you got to. So you said it was around 2018 when your dad was like, Hey, we're gonna, you know, I need to pivot you out of kind of being in this stuck place, so that, you know, and trying something different in order to get to the next level of your life. You know, one, do you think you would have gotten there alone? And two, do you think that you know, because again, you have been saying for years up until that point that marriage is coming. What switched from the idea of I want marriage to I'm ready for marriage?

SPEAKER_02 14:35

That's a good question.

SPEAKER_00 14:39

Um I I think from I want marriage to I'm ready for marriage. That's a good question. Yeah. I I I think that I think that was the feeling like I was maximizing what I what I needed to maximize, and I just felt more I don't know, I felt like the the the writing, I think the the writing really helped me and and because it helped me to get more emotionally transparent. I think that was a a uh a a place for me personally where I was stuck and I I I didn't know how to do that. And I think for for for a lot a lot of me uh uh probably delayed dating uh because I wasn't sure of how to handle myself emotionally. I I just wasn't comfortable. Uh and so writing was kind of a a way for me to explore that. And so as I did that and kind of began to understand who internally what was going on with me, it I felt like I was more ready to enter into some sort of you know romantic relationship. Um but I needed to do that, and and so that was a little bit of a process.

Online Dating Experiments And Patterns

SPEAKER_01 15:53

Oh, I really like that, and because you know, I think that there's just a lot of us have been wanting it, you know, wanting partnership and saying, you know, Lord, this has to be my year, this has to be it. I know, but what I am finding as I'm talking again with our wonderful middle adult community is that when you look at people's lives as they move from the season of this is my year, this is my year, this is my year, because you did that for like at least three, four years, you know, before the year finally came, you know. Sure, sure. Um and then you you watch people as they go into a season, and it's almost like you can market now when someone is like, oh wait, no. They went from you know, just being in the general assembly to like they're knocking on the door of it now. Yeah you know, like they were out there in the lobby, now they in the hallway, now they're at the door. And and you you can start to discern when it's happening for someone. Um, and as I look back at your at your journey, like I feel like there was a marker. And I and I think like you doing the blog, I definitely think that that was a moment where it was a transition from this, this is a deep desire, to this is something that I'm prepared for and ready to embrace. Yeah, you know, yeah. And I and and I think, you know, as we're because you know, as we're thinking about who the person is and what characteristics we think they should have, I think what's even more important is who you who you have become and who you have and what you have opened yourself up to and uh what process you have allowed yourself to go through in order to get there. Okay, so talk to me about online dating. Okay, listen, listen, we're just gonna put it out there. Ruth Abigail knows I'm not the biggest fan of online dating. She's probably the smallest fan that I'm probably the smallest fan. I have dabbled, yeah, but every time it's begrudgingly. And the moment somebody does or says something off, I'm like, you know what? That's why I ain't elite. Delete, delete, I don't have time for these shenanigans. Yeah. Okay, I'm not fooled up with y'all. Okay, you know, I'll go find me somebody who, you know, I I still I want that old school love. You know, I want that I saw her, you know, or I knew her. We were friends, you know. I I just could not imagine my life without her. Sure. You know, and it's hard to see that happening online. All right. So I want you not not when you met my brother, but talk to me about the experiences prior to.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

Well, the experiences prior to were very similar to yours, and my attitude was very similar to yours. I was not really for it. Now, um, you know, uh I had another friend who had ventured into that before me. So it was helpful to have somebody who was kind of like in it a little bit, um, to kind of gauge some ex from some experience. So um, but I didn't dive in like she did. Like I was very much on the like I was very much on the outskirts, and I really wasn't, I was like, I'm really not, this just feels weird, you know. Um and it was it was an experiment. It was experimental. I probably did there was I I like to say I did about three rounds of of playing around. That's what I did. I thought three rounds of playing around, I was probably about a month or two, and then I delete it, and then I wait. And then, you know, I did another round and I would get a little further into a conversation with somebody, or maybe even like, you know, we've moved on to a to like talking on the phone and like texting or whatever. And then um we will, you know, and then I that I was like, that's no good, that's trash. Um, and then I'm done, right? For a while. And then, you know, then I so that that pattern, that was my pattern.

SPEAKER_02 20:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

And it wasn't until so there I I actually there was twice that that happened. And then I did enter into a longer situation with somebody that was not from online. Um and that lasted for a couple of years. I did, I ain't gonna lie to y'all. It's the truth, it's the truth, man. And and that lasted for for longer than it should have, but it lasted. We've all been there. We've we have, and I appreciate the I appreciate the grace. Uh so and I learned a lot from that, more than I wanted to, but I learned a lot from it. Right? And so after that, I went back onto online. And that's when I made a decision to take it seriously.

The Velcro Situationship And Community Truth

SPEAKER_01 21:02

Okay, can I can I interject? Please. Because I want to go back to the situation ship. Okay. I'm not I'm not gonna go too deep. No, it's but I you know, listen, and I speak from experience, that's where a lot of us got stuck. Man, a lot of us got stuck right there at the situation ship because it's a situation ship, because it it refuses to have any permanence one, but even though it won't give you a resolve, there is something that keeps you attached. It's like Velcro, you know, it doesn't promise any actual power to hold any weight together. Like, you know, Velcro is good to like attach things for a short amount of time. Correct. But the moment we put some real weight on it, like Velcro is gonna snap, it's gonna snap. Up apart. Very good analysis. Very good analogy. And a lot of us have spent a lot of time in Velcro relationships. My God. Where it's almost like you are magnetized to each other. And the way that Velcro works is there is an entanglement. My God. Which I know was a big word around the around the around the early 2020s, you know. And you know, I can't remember what year that was, but it became a thing. Yeah. But that's Velcro. Yeah. Like Velcro works because the fibers become entangled temporarily. Temporarily. So, but it is easy to settle for the Velcro relationship. You know, it is easy to say, you know, hey, it's not, it's not what it needs to be today, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna believe that it will become what I want it to be tomorrow. How did you make a resolve to break your because I'm guessing, I'm not guessing, I kind of know, but but but I mean that ended before your real thing came. Yeah, right? So like it wasn't like a the real thing came and pulled you away and you were like, wait, no, I've been introduced to better, so I'm gonna go with this. You had to end a thing, yeah, and then have a moment before you were introduced to the real thing. For sure. But how did you make a resolve to get out of the Velcro situation?

SPEAKER_00 23:39

Uh the short answer for that is community.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

Um and Hello, my name is Community.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Okay, all right. Uh I I I mean, you know, quite literally, I uh a friend, you know, one of my one of my friends just looked me dead in the in the face, asked me a very pointed direct question to which I it was like I snapped out of it. Uh it was what it was. So that that is just what actually happened. Um there was a lot of conviction involved. There's a lot of insecurity um that I was having to uh deal with that I had to uh uh be kind of I I had to admit to, right? And and and and deal with in the midst of that. Uh I think the other things were I think the result like it came from being honest, right? Um, with myself, but that honesty even, which is why community was so important. I I was I was honest, but then I would justify. I was honest and I would justify. I was honest and I would justify. And as long as I and also I was this was during COVID. This was, you know, so we were all very isolated. You know, I didn't feel alone. I didn't I didn't feel that because you know, I had community, I had y'all, you know, I you know, we were I was good and I feel like my relationships were established enough to to go through that. But this particular situation was uh kind of lived, had the the life was more prevalent during this time because there was also an opportunity to have a deeper attachment, so I thought, right, when I wasn't a was on when I wasn't forming more attachments. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 25:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

So it it presented itself as something that was more substantial than it was simply because I didn't have a lot going on, right, with my in general relationships. So I was just kind of blinded by that and blinded by that need. And um and it just it just lasts, and so you get used to it, you just get used to it, and and it becomes familiar and it's just easy, um, and you fall into you just fall into stuff, and you just say, Oh, well, I'm this is just this this must be what it is, right? Um and and I had to kind of get snapped out of that.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

Yeah, I think it's so interesting that you said that I because I didn't even put this together that it this relationship came about during COVID. Um because I think that that was a time when as leaders, right, like our productivity was down a little bit. Our busyness. That's a good idea. Absolutely. Yes, I had. And so when you're thinking about, you know, the season of life that we were in, as a leader, you're like, I have space and capacity to maybe see someone that wouldn't fit me in my in my regular season. It's a really good point. That's a great point, Quita.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

It's not even something I've never considered, honestly.

COVID, Capacity, And Compromise

SPEAKER_01 26:53

I mean, it just came to me because I too had a situation ship during COVID, you know, and like you start you're sitting there and you know, you ain't got much to do, and you're like, this good work. Yeah, yeah. You know, like as a leader, you're like, hey, you know, but not but but the pandemic ended, the quarantine ended, we all went back to our jobs. I I'm I still remember the day that school told me we was coming back in June. And I said, Y'all gonna kill us. Yes, you know, but but those situationships also started dwindling when we went back.

SPEAKER_00 27:31

Yeah, and just becoming revealing themselves a little bit more. Like, right. So it's just like, you know, the busier I got, the more, the less healthy it got. Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

So that's so good, you know. And I I I think, and I I really want those who are listening, right? Everybody's had a situationship. And if you haven't had one, you've had a friendship that got a little close, you had you've had something where you have considered maybe this was it. Consider what season of your life that something, yes, absolutely. And because we're talking about finding a person that matches all of you. And I think what I've had to realize is that as I'm really trying to, you know, pursue, I'm pursuing life right now, right? That's what I'm focused on, not pursuing the idea of having a partner or having anything in particular. I am pursuing life. And as I'm doing that, I am becoming more of the person that someone's gonna have to say yes to. And so as I'm thinking about what characteristics I want them to have, I'm becoming the characteristics that they're gonna that they're gonna have to give their yes to. And there's areas of our lives where we have held back because we feel like, you know, like for me, you know, when I before I bought my first house, I always imagined I was gonna, you know, buy a house in marriage. Now I'm on house number two, and I'm like, hey, listen, I'll buy another one. Okay, don't pray with me. Okay, I'm gonna I'll buy up the block. All right, you ain't gotta come. All right, I'm gonna own a neighborhood by the time you get here. Absolutely. You're gonna have to match that. Right? And and so I'm watching as God has added so much to my life. And so when I think about who fits me, like who who would be a good partner for me, it's very different than who I would have felt fit me two years ago. Absolutely. You get what I'm saying? No, and so I think timing is such an important piece of this. Talk to me, okay. So we we we've kind of talked about, you know, single and thriving Ruth Abigail, who was laying the foundation for, you know, her financial identity, her work identity. When did you uh uh get your leadership role in Angel Street?

SPEAKER_00 30:07

Um I came officially I became the executive director officially in January of 2020.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

Girl, it's it's the the timeline is crazy. Yes, right, right. So, so you became executive director. Three months later, it's a pandemic, situationship, right? So they they haven't even really seen you in in ed mode.

SPEAKER_00 30:30

Oh no, no, no. And that the situationship started a little bit before that, starting like 2019. Um actually started, yeah. So, so, but yeah, no. Oh no, no, no, not at all. Not at all, not at all.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

Okay. So we get convicted, we realize I've I've been in a daze. This does not, this is not actually who I'm looking for or what I'm looking for. And so I'm guessing then we go back to online dating.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

Yeah, so I I will say that I there there was, yes, went back to online dating. I actually uh I gotta say this because this was important. Let me let me say this too. To the um and as a leader, one of the things that I had to I I made the I was making the mistake of doing was allowing someone else to determine uh what he wanted uh me to be how he wanted me to be. And speak on it um with the situation ship, right? So like I was bending to what he would have preferred me to be as opposed to who I really was as a leader, yeah, and that was causing me an unhealthy duality inside of me, which literally began to manifest itself physically because of anxiety, and I lost a ton of weight as a result of it. Like I never put that together. That I I lost a lot of weight, right? Like I was I was just not physically healthy, right? As a result of it, because I was trying to uh meet the expectations of somebody outside of what uh outside of who I was, particularly as a leader, right? So wow that so yeah, I just saw it just to just to no uh anybody that you are dealing with will uh not just uh accept you for the whole the totality of who you are, particularly if you are someone who has leadership responsibilities, but they will cultivate it and they will uh they will celebrate it. And when if that's not happening, then it it probably is not a good idea to continue with that because you can't you should not, I do not believe that anybody should let go of who they have, who who God has put them in the path to become for the sake of somebody else's preference and just to be with them, right? Just that that's just not healthy. Uh and so I found myself having to do that, and it was it was a wrestle in internally that manifested itself externally.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

And so Wow. Yeah, no, and I I think that's so key because when we're thinking about, you know, when we say the word leader, we're not talking about a position, right? Like this is this is a piece of who we are, you know, this is this is how we show up in the places that we're called to.

SPEAKER_00 33:40

That's right, yeah, yeah.

A New Approach To Apps And Authenticity

SPEAKER_01 33:41

And so, you know, there's a sacrifice there. All right, I want to get the happier times. So I want to shift, you know, I I I I think that conversation was necessary because again, you know, to my to my sister or my brother who's stuck in that situation ship, and you are looking for, you know, your reason to leave, and you're looking for your reason to go seek what's for you. I I want you I want you to believe that there's better, right? And it all happens in God's timing. All right, let's talk about God's timing. All right. So we we we we transition out of of that thing, all right? We're out of there, right? And so we're back on we're back on the dating apps. We're back on them. We're back on the dating apps, all right? And you come across the profile, yep, right, that you almost swipe past.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

Okay, all right. So so let me let me say this. I got back on the dating app, but I got back on with a different intention. I got back on to simply get to know people. I I I really did treat it as a as a as a almost like an adventure. And I was just like, hey, I'm just gonna get I didn't necessarily go in the same way I did before with like, ooh, I might find the person. I honestly did it. I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna talk to folk because quite frankly, asking people questions and learning about them. So I'm just gonna do that.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

So this is where the podcast was burned?

SPEAKER_00 35:04

Not at all, not at all. But I had kind of been in this mode through some some work I was doing in the community where I was asking a lot of questions, getting to know people, all this stuff. I said, I'm just gonna transfer that to here and just do that same thing. And that's what I did. So I also said I was gonna present myself as my whole self. And uh the and I'm not gonna curate myself very much. Um and I didn't. And I I put up pictures of I put up pictures of myself in a you know, in a t-shirt, and yeah, that's you know, and a t-shirt I probably would go to sleep in, right? Like it wasn't even a cute t-shirt, it was just a regular old t-shirt.

SPEAKER_01 35:43

Um, and I put myself I never saw these pictures.

First Conversations And Non-Impressed Confidence

SPEAKER_00 35:48

You didn't, and I didn't, I didn't, I didn't want you to because I knew you would judge me. So um, and I put it, I you know, I put pictures of myself in a professional setting. I put pictures of myself having fun with like, you know, and and so that was that was different. I was I was much more curated before, so I didn't do that, and I didn't really pay that much attention to how good the pictures look, quite frankly. Um, I wanted to make sure I looked good, but the picture itself wasn't like the quality of the picture wasn't as important. Like I really had these thoughts. I said, I'm gonna cut all that and I'm just gonna be me. Uh, and I also um decided that I was going to uh have certain kind of guidelines to how I was gonna do this. And so one of my guidelines was to I was gonna respond to anybody who messaged me, and that was what I wasn't gonna ignore them. Uh and so anyway, that's kind of how, and so anybody who messaged me, I was gonna respond to. So, yes, I took, um, I would go come home and just go through what's been happening on my phone because I didn't really pay attention during the day. And I went through and I saw a profile. Also had, I say, hey, you know, you never know out here. I'm a Christian, I'm a believer, and we at least need to start off there. We might not end up there, but it's let's start there, you know what I'm saying? Because, you know, I don't know what folk out here doing. And I said, I need that to be on their profile, right? And then there was a couple other things I said. So I go through, see a profile, it had matched with me, and it checked the boxes except for the Christian box. It just nothing was there. It didn't say another religion, it didn't say like non-religious or anything, it just said it just was blank. Well, okay, so I'm gonna swipe against it. I was like, that didn't fall into my well, I really did literally swipe the wrong way. That that is not an exaggeration. I actually swiped the wrong way. Next thing I know, I was like, oh crap. And I will probably know next literally within five minutes, he messages me. And I was like, Oh man, and so now now my other guideline, you're supposed to talk to anybody who messages you, don't blow him off. So I said, I'm gonna follow my guidelines. Okay, so I did, and uh, and so we just got to talking and we just started talking, and it was one of the more uh robust conversations, you know, and it had a little bit of depth towards it in the beginning, and so um, so yeah, I that we just started talking, and a couple days later we talked on the phone, and I think we've actually talked every day since for the last four years.

SPEAKER_01 38:22

That's so oh that is so beautiful, yes, yes, yes. Okay, so uh that uh talk to me about because here's here's where I get stuck. All right, on the I get stuck, I get stuck just opening the dating app to be clear. Um I mean, I just I just like uh yeah, why am I here? You know, but talk to me about the transition from talking on the dating app to then talking in person.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

Um the thing is it was just it was just like talking to anybody, like you just have conversations. So we we were just intentional. Um, and I I would say that he was probably he was he was pursuant, like so he was he I wasn't sitting around, I wasn't doing much pursuing, he was doing it. Um, and but I was responding and not just responding surfacely, like I was just kind of responding, you know, with a little death, and he would respond back with a little death with help, which helps. And so we just started talking, and um I think we set up a date a few a couple couple weeks after we start talking. It was it was it was nothing it was nothing, you know, uh de it wasn't it wasn't it wasn't that involved, like it wasn't like you know, it's just it just was the next step. Um and I think that that that his posture, I think the thing that I appreciated about about him, and this kind of kind of speaks to the the leader part a little bit because I I that's the other thing that's like I'm going to be before when I was doing the online dating, I wouldn't totally be totally up front about what I did for a living um because I didn't want anybody to be intimidated. And so I didn't I didn't put that out there. I think I said I just work with kids or whatever. But I I put executive director, I put that on the thing, and so because I was like, I need I I'm not gonna play these games anymore. And so um when he and I started talking, like when I would share with him what I was doing, he was more curious than anything else. He was just asking a bunch of questions because he was like, I don't know anything about this, and so we just start talking about it, right? Uh the other thing that I appreciated about him was his curiosity about my family. My father's a pastor of a large church. That was also something that I was very it I just was cautious about because I didn't, I, you know, I gotta, I don't want to, I was cautious about it for all the reasons you could think I would be cautious about it, okay?

SPEAKER_01 40:52

Yeah, you can't just bring anybody up into the middle.

Shrinking The List To Core Values

SPEAKER_00 40:54

No, and and and I I particularly didn't want anybody to be enamored by it. Like I never want that. It's like I don't that's nobody wants to. No, that would not have worked for you. Not at all. And so he just he wasn't. I was he was like, oh, okay. It was like he was almost nonchalant. I was like, Well, I mean, I mean it's not a small deal. Like, yeah, like hey, hey, you know, like, you know, you know, mention his name around Memphis, see what happens, you know. But I but that actually was very that was attractive to me because I was like, you know, he it doesn't, it does not, he is obviously not intimidated by that at all, nor is he overly excited about you know what I'm saying? Like he just was just was what it was. So he just kind of like you exactly just ask questions, right? And was just curious more than anything. Um and and that that to me as crazy, that was the f that was in the first conversation. All this happened in the first phone conversation. What that told me was as a leader that he understood, he understood leadership to some degree, right? Like he was not uh overly um impressed, and that's important because I didn't want anyone to be, I don't need anybody, I don't need to partner with somebody who's impressed with me. I need to partner with somebody who's going to push me, which means you must see that I can go further. And that was so like that first step was like, he's not impressed. I like that. I like that he's not impressed. I like that there's no, you know, he's just like, okay, cool. That's just that's what you do. That's cool. Um anyway, so that that was helpful for me.

SPEAKER_01 42:31

I saw that's really good. I'm starting to, I'm starting to understand because I feel like you know, we go in, you know, the list, you know, has become a thing, you know, Sierra. Yes, okay. You know, what the sh give us the list. Give us the list of the qualities that you're looking for, right? But to me, it kind of sounds like in your uh kind of development of y'all's relationship and understanding of each other, you were discovering the things you needed versus going in saying, all right, he has to X, Y, and Z in order for me to know that this is the one.

Growth Mindset As A Green Flag

SPEAKER_00 43:13

My, you know, you said something in the beginning that I I wanted to kind of not push back on, but just like maybe push back on, I don't know. But I I just different than what you what you expressed. So like I I would say that the older I got, the smaller my list became. Um and it it I like you know what I'm saying? Because I I I started to I started to say, what is what's really the most important things about a person? And bump all that other stuff. Like I'm not, I'm not, I don't that that stuff. And so the the biggest thing that I think as we you know, as we as we continued in our relationship and I got to know him more, and I used to tell him this, like Um I I want to focus on the things that can't change about a person. So, or that won't change about a person, who the values that have the core of that person. You know, we talk so much, especially as women, about how much a man makes, what you know, what he looks like, what his status, you know, what his status in life is, um, what he does for a living, all those things that could change like that overnight. It could be everything that you might like could be gone, and everything he doesn't have, he could get in a span of 24 hours. So I think that that if if it fell full if it fell into a category of something that could change, I I just didn't pay much attention to it. Um and I really just paid attention to the core of a person. And does his core match my core? And can we can we rock with that? Because we are we are different, we were in different places in life. Um, he was just moving to the city, he was just moving back to Memphis, so he wasn't as established as I was. Uh, he was kind of, you know, he was he was figuring his life out to some degree. And I had figured a lot of my life out. Like, um, and so that I think in the culture would have been, oh nah girl, you don't need that. You need to find somebody who XYZ XYZYZ. And it's like, I mean, I could have gone, I could have, you know, I could have, I could have listened to that and I would still be single today. Uh, and so uh that, but I just didn't have I didn't have that mindset, and I I attribute that a lot to my mother. Um but I just I just didn't have that mindset. And I I was like, I don't so much care about that because that could change. It will change. Also, you have to know that because the core of somebody, something about my husband I really appreciate is his his desire to grow. We both have that very much in common. I could I knew that just based on conversation and little a little bit of observation in the beginning. If you have a desire to grow, I know you won't be here long because that's not your desire for yourself. Yeah, it ain't about me, it's about you. Um, one of the things that he told me that I thought was also key was he said, you know, um God, I've been on this journey. Um, God has put me on this journey, this growth journey, and then I met you in the middle of it. To me, that says to me, this man is gonna grow with with a w without me. I'm not the I'm not the reason for it. And I believe God sent me in the middle of it to come alongside, right? Yeah, as a as a helper, as we are. And so that process started even before we were married, and you kind of can tell, like, hey, this is this is a ordained situation because of how we how we came into it. Uh, and so that that those were just some key things that just stuck out to me. And this was all within a month. This was not long. And just some key, you know, conversations we had, minds, you know, just phrases that I would hear over and over again. Um, and it just made me more willing to keep going.

SPEAKER_01 47:24

What as you were kind of going through, and it's, you know, because dating is collecting data, right? And so, like, you're kind of talking us through like how you really was collecting like the key points. How do you go from that data collection point to that decision point where you're like, I'm cementing my yes to this person? Like, I know this is the one, and I I'm cementing this.

Direction Versus Pace In Relationships

SPEAKER_00 47:57

Uh, you know, uh, some of it, I don't, I mean, that's a good question. I I I think his certainty helps. You know, it's not a it's not a one-sided conversation, you know, it's a two-sided one. So if you're the only one having a conversation, that's a red flag, that's a red flag, you know. Um and so, but he and he also initiated it. He he has always been the initiator of the forward movement of our relationship. Somebody told me this earlier. Um a friend of mine uh who also was married in her earlier 30s, um, said that somebody told her this advice that uh men set the direction and women set the pace of a relationship, which I really liked. And I really felt like that was really that was really a good way to look at it. And I do feel like that was our story is he was clear on the direction pretty quickly. I I it's not that I wasn't clear, but I wasn't I didn't jump with both feet in the way he did. I was much more cautious. So I I set the pace and he allowed me to do that. Um, if it was up to him, we'd have been married about within a year. And that I was not ready for that. Like I was like, nah, nah, I need a little bit more time. And I don't know that it was really so much whether it was him or not, as much as I was I ready for my life to shift like that. And that was where my most of my thinking was like my life is it's about to shift dramatically because I realize how focused I've been on certain things, where where my natural tendency is, and now introduces a whole other person. Hey, that is a that is my life is gonna change, and I don't know if I'm ready for that just knit. So I so anyway, he set the direction and I was able to set the pace, and that was a healthy way for us to really manage that. And it gave me the opportunity to more so get myself together um than than anything else. I think I knew it it was I I probably if I'm honest, probably knew it was him pretty early on. Like I I I didn't because I didn't date a lot, and because I didn't date a lot, I didn't really have, you know, I I knew I knew who I was, I didn't date a whole lot, and so I'm actually grateful for that because I I realized, and you and I have talked about this a little bit, I didn't have a whole lot of baggage to unpack. Um when it cut I didn't well.

SPEAKER_01 50:29

I'm laughing at the unpack word.

SPEAKER_00 50:30

Oh yes, I didn't have a lot of baggage to unpack um when it came to making this connection with him. Um, and I think that helped me to make my decision. I was I was clear, right? I wasn't as the the it was clearer, the decision was clearer. So um I I I I appreciated that opportunity, and I think that was an upside. I mean, there's a downside to to maybe not dating a whole lot, but there was an upside, and that was one of them. Um was like, hey, I'm gonna, I can kind of go into this with fresh eyes, um, not doing a whole lot of comparing, like, and really see this man for who he is and not see him as men, but see him as a man, which is very different. Um and Whoa, wait a minute, don't slide past that, say it again. Okay, all right, all right. I was able to see him as a man and not men. Right. Uh, and that that helped me to be more focused on those values and the core and all this stuff, as opposed to saying, well, all these other men, he should be like all of them, right? It's not something else that I did that I'm just realizing that was really helpful is when I when we started, when when it became serious, I stopped following most accounts that had to that talked about dating um on Instagram and all that. I didn't, you know, I was following a few of them. You you know, you would tell me some and I would follow them. We would be, you know, we listen to these people. And I stopped following them because I found myself measuring him up against everything they were saying. Wow. And I was like, this is not this is not healthy because they don't know him, and I'm not going to do that to him. Wow. So I stopped following these people. Wow.

Choosing Without Baggage Or Comparison

SPEAKER_01 52:24

You know, you're making me feel like a lot of women, I don't know about men because I'm not a man, but you're making me feel like a lot of women may be missing their blessings simply because of what we're expecting the package to look like. And because of what we told, what we've been told. I mean, there's so there's a lot of wisdom out there, right? But there's also a lot of assumptions and a lot of formulas that, baby, if we was able to get a formula and run with it, we all would be married. Right. If the formulas work, right? But, you know, we have, I think that there's just this misconception um or this ideology, um, especially with black women, that there are not enough good black men, right? That there is a shortage. Yeah. Um, and that we're not gonna find good ones, right? And I think that uh maybe in some respects there are areas where we need to open. Ty would be so proud of me. Please be sure to show him this the just this the short 30 seconds, just this clip. You know, like I do think that there are there are areas and ways that we can be more open. I do also think in saying that, like you gotta know who you are, right? And you gotta you gotta know what's gonna work for you. And one thing that you always say, Ruth Abigail, that has really stuck with me is that you were looking for someone who fit not your public life but your private life. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And as leaders, we are very public-facing, right? And there are a lot of people who will say, Oh, Jaquita, she's amazing. I love her, you know, she's da-da-da-da-da. She's go, go, go, go, go. Well, when I'm at home, I might look at you like, I ain't got it. Like, yeah, you know, I've been I've been energy, energizer bunny all day. You know, and so you're looking for someone that that that fits you. And I think one of the things when I noticed when I first met Ty, like I had, I just had no doubt. I never had any doubt that this was the person for my best friend. You know, like I was like, this the he's it. This is it. And it's like it when you see y'all together. When I I remember at the wedding, I was just like, you know when God's hand was on something because everyone was just the level of excitement and enthusiasm that people had, people who didn't even know Ty, or people who didn't know you, like we were all just like, this is the Lord's doing. And it was just, and we were all just so sure of it. Um, and I like that, you know, as we're talking about, you know, what characteristics should we as I know we've been talking about the perspective of single women, but surely there are some single men out there as well who are who are, you know, and I don't I don't wanna, I don't wanna, I don't wanna, you know, isolate y'all. Sure. You know, because we all, you know, we all want, you know, what uh most of us want that. You know, we want companionship, we want relationship, we want family to some degree, you know. Um, and as we're thinking about what that looks like, you know, I'm glad that we didn't come on here and give a list. Like I'm glad that we didn't say, hey, if you're a leader, you need to find somebody that's gonna push you. But I I want us to start thinking about it as a journey. And the journey begins with yourself, with your self-growth, with your self-actualization, your self-realization. And then it transitions to the space of being open, being open to find who's actually for you, right? And maybe, maybe you don't know everything that that person's gonna come with. No, not basically don't probably you do not. It's actually very likely you absolutely will not. You don't know everything that that person is gonna come with. So, yes, write the list, right? I'm not again, I'm not against the list. Write the vision, make it plain. I'm not against the list, but also no, you don't know everything that you need.

Stop Measuring People Against Internet Advice

SPEAKER_00 56:50

Can I also say about the lists? And this is I think this is also important, and particularly for leaders, because we are a lot of us are driven, and you know, and we kind of our lives are kind of managed by lists anyway. Like we we kind of live by the list. I think we have to remember that the list may not be fulfilled before you say I do. And you you have to know that that list a lot of times is cultivated by the partner. Um, I heard somebody say that uh, you know, what and and I've been guilty of this, but it's it's really easy to compare somebody you're dating to somebody who's been married for 30 years. Uh whether maybe it's a mentor you have, maybe it's a pastor, maybe it's your parent, you know, and we we say, you know, well, well, he done do this or she done do that. And you know, my my pastor said this, and this is how he is, or this is what my uh this is what my dad says, this is what my mom says, this is what they do for me, XYZ. And it's like, you gotta understand, you know, that that man, that woman was not that way before they met the person they're with. They didn't meet them like that. Yeah, and I would dare say that there are some things on their lists that were fulfilled in their partnership.

SPEAKER_01 58:20

That's so good.

SPEAKER_00 58:22

Right? And not just they didn't just come complete because you're not gonna come complete. And and and and that's on either side. And I think it's important. It doesn't, you cannot do that.

SPEAKER_01 58:35

Yeah, you can't do that.

SPEAKER_00 58:36

You cannot do that, and and and understand that the the way the reason they got to that, the reason you what you like in them is a is the fruit of their partnership. So that's good, you know what I'm saying? So it's like that there are things in me that have that have grown as a result of being being married to my husband who pulled that out of me, and I would not be who I am without him, and vice versa. And we thank him. Okay, yes, we do, because I am better. I'm better. Okay, all right, okay, all right, you know, nobody'll make it whatever. You know, Tom's very thoughtful, he's very thoughtful, and I and I'm really trying to get there. Um, but but like, but you know, I just think that's important for us to realize as we're as we're as we're making these lists, like that's great. But just know that everything on your list, some of that may be what you're supposed to help him become, yeah, or help her become. Um it doesn't mean that the list is irrelevant, it just means it's it it it you may not see it in its complete form until you take the leap. Um, and there are some things that are there are some things that you know you know are core, right? And then there are some things that have to be cultivated. And those that you have to the discernment and wisdom, but I think you know, as leaders, it's important to kind of not not put too much, not not not put too much weight on that list because I think you will find yourself nobody will nobody's gonna get there. No nobody's gonna be good enough for that.

Private Life Fit Over Public Image

SPEAKER_01 1:00:14

Yeah. And I think we have to we have to get to a point where we're not simply evaluating people against a list, but we're really taking a step back and getting to know them. You know, and and and you know, Ruth always tells me to be curious. Yes, which that's is not it's not a it's not one of my core themes. It's um but you know, but I I do think that like when it comes to getting to know people, you have to have a level of you have to when we when we evaluate people against the list, right, we're seeing how do you fit my ideal, right? When we allow people to show us who they are, right, we give them space to uncover and and reveal who they are versus trying to, you know, like like you were saying earlier, trying to become something that they think they're supposed to be for us. Um uh so Ruth, I want to, you know, uh just kind of final thoughts as you're thinking about, you know, yourself now, you know, you've been married two years, um, two wonderful years to my wonderful brother, whom I love very much. Um, and as you are thinking through kind of like things that you know now on the other side of marriage that have cemented I made the right choice, right? What are some of those things that you would say have solidified that statement? I made the right choice. What are the characteristics that you know now on the other side of it that that verify your yes?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:53

I would say um characteristics would be uh key um humility, um, teachability. I would say I I don't know, but I can't get to a characteristic, but I I I have never felt more free to lead. There's a lot of freedom that I feel to be a leader than I have since I've been married or since I've been with Ty, right? Wow, because he has demanded that I do what I'm called to do. Like it's not even an option. Wow. You know, and he makes all the space for me to do that. I mean, it's you know, not almost 10 o'clock, and I'm doing this podcast, he's in the kitchen cooking. And um and he's you know, he'll he you know, he he might text me like, hey, when do you want me to drop your fries? Like, you know what I'm saying? Like it's stuff like that, you know. That's beautiful. That's just like he knows, and I I got home probably around seven, right? And like, so I haven't done like I've been work this is work, I mean, I've been working all day, right? Um, and he gives me space to do that, not just but again, not just because he demands it of me because he he sees who I'm created to be. And it makes me want to go harder uh in that and it also makes me want to do the same for him. And so that is that's and that's our dynamic, right? And I think I don't I can't dynamic characteristics, but that is that is one of the things that helped me to say to cement that cement the yes. Uh I think his his commitment to growth. I mean, I have seen this man become the husband he has wanted to be. Beautiful, you know?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:50

And and I think he would say the same of of me uh trying to. I personally think he's done a better job than I have, but um don't don't don't agree with that. Don't shake your hands.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:00

I tried not to. I see that. But the nod came. Wow, my gosh.

Lists Evolve Inside Partnership

SPEAKER_00 1:04:05

No, I do though. I really think he's I I think that. Um, and he would he would tell me I'm wrong, but I he's not here, so he he doesn't get to say it. Um so I I feel like I've seen a great wife. I I am learning, God knows I'm learning. Um but but I've seen him um I've seen him become the man he wants to be, and how who he has like he said he wants to be. And that's that's a testament to his uh commitment to growth. And like I said, that was something I saw within the first couple of times we talked, like, and it's manifested even more. Um and so yeah, I think those are some of the things that um that have cemented the S.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:51

That's good, man. That's good. And I think that that solidifies we are not just looking for, you know, like uh uh an arbitrary list of good characteristics, right? We are looking for the person that we can travel through life with that's gonna push us um to move forward together into God's best. Amen. Right? All right, I love that. I love that. What a fantastic time, friends, okay. Anybody give it up for Ruth Abigail, all right, who came out of her comfort zone, okay? She's normally on the other side of this, always asking people the questions, but today she got grilled, okay. And I had a good time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, so listen, y'all. If you have not done so already, right, we on here giving y'all our transparent life stories okay, for the betterment of the people. Okay, we do it for the people. If you have not already liked, shared, or subscribed, please do one, if not all of the three, okay? Like the post, share. Share it with a friend. Go ahead and join the fam. Okay. Get in on this. Get in on the movement. Okay. While we still, you know what I'm saying? We still, we still at the low price. Okay. When we popping for real, all right. Don't come talking about we two, we cost too much. Then, okay, when you can get in now for free. Right? Like, share, subscribe. We really want you to be a part of this, all right? And friends, I just want to thank y'all for joining the journey. Okay. Let's keep on learning together so that we can experience more freedom. Peace, y'all.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:40

Thank you once again for listening to the Unlearned Podcast. We would love to hear your comments and your feedback about the episode. Feel free to follow us on Facebook and Instagram and to let us know what you think. We're looking forward to the next time when we are able to unlearn together to move forward towards freedom. See you then.