Evangelist Intern Year in Review Pt. 1

In this special episode of the Witnessing Christ podcast, we sit down with our 2024–2025 intern team—Jon, Charlie, Calvin, and Grace—as they reflect on a transformative year of evangelism, discipleship, and growth. From online conversations to temple visits and late-night theology papers, these young missionaries share how God shaped their hearts, sharpened their witness, and deepened their understanding of the sufficiency of Christ.

What to Expect:

• Spiritual Insights: Hear how each intern grappled with the suffocating burden of self-made righteousness in Mormonism and came to cherish the full sufficiency of Christ’s righteousness—imputed, not earned.
• Powerful Passages: Discover the Scripture verses that became lifelines for them in the mission field—Galatians 2, Colossians 2, Hebrews, and more—and how these verses ministered to their own hearts as well as to those they witnessed to.
• Hard Conversations: Listen in as the interns recount real-life moments—from emotionally charged online arguments to vulnerable face-to-face encounters with missionaries—where the Spirit used them in ways they never expected.
• Personal Growth: Get a glimpse into how their view of ministry changed, including the challenge of dividing law and gospel, the limits of apologetics, and the beauty of trusting the Word to do the heavy lifting.
• Words of Encouragement: If you’ve ever felt unequipped to witness, you’ll be inspired by their reminders: God doesn’t need your perfect words—He needs your faithful heart, your honest story, and your willingness to trust Him.

Whether you're new to witnessing or a seasoned outreach leader, this episode offers a compelling reminder: Jesus is enough, not just for eternal life, but for everyday gospel conversations.

Be sure to join us for Part 2, where the interns discuss the surprises, team dynamics, and how they plan to apply this experience to their future ministry callings.

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Transcript

Welcome back and welcome to this special episode of the Witnessing Christ podcast. Today we're joined by our incredible team of interns who have spent this last year learning and leading. We're going to hear about what God has taught them, how they've grown, and what they've learned about grace, evangelism, and our shared mission to reach the lost and Mormonism. Whether you're a witnessing to a neighbor, a family member, or maybe even a stranger online, we're hopeful that this conversation will be a blessing to you. Welcome back everyone. Hello. Good to see you. Good to hear you. Hey, hey. Happy summer. It is summer, isn't it? Everyone's kind of going with the four winds. Charlie's out in Montana. We've got three still in Wisconsin. I'm out here in Idaho, and we found a day and time that worked for all of us to have this, this wrap up a series of conversations. So thanks. Thanks for making time. Uh, first thing that we really want to start with today is really thinking about what this year of internship has meant for you personally when it comes to your own spiritual growth and the biblical insight that you've gained. Uh, one of the things that I always emphasize with our Christian witnesses is that this is good for us, too. Every time we prepare to go and knock on doors for our mission trips, every time I prepare to go and witness at the temple, every time I prepare to teach an evangelism workshop, it's good for me too. And so this has been a great it's good for me to year for these interns. And we want to hear about all of the ways that it was good for them. And hopefully this will be a blessing to you as well. So I want to start with what what God has done with your own hearts. Uh, what has he taught you this year that really stands out? So this is what I really want to hear from all of you. What what are what are some of the things that stand out this year from what God has taught you. John, why don't you go first? Over Arizona. We spent some time looking at different kinds of righteousness. And, uh, maybe the biggest takeaway this year is just that the righteousness of God does not come from within us. It's something that is given to us. Uh, just there's been a lot of conversations this year where there's been reluctancy from the LDS people I've been talking to, to. Not try to improve their own standing before God. Like that's what they want to do. Uh, but yet we're told from the Bible that the righteousness of God is given to us. It's something that, uh, we can't look within ourselves and find in our own works. Uh, it's just something that is done in one for us solely by the works of Christ. And I've had to remind myself that throughout this year, because I think selfish ambition is a big part of the LDS system where it's like, I really want to do my best to improve my standing before God. Uh, but that's not how God works. He sees us as his children. not because of what we've done. Glad to hear that. That that two kinds of righteousness concept has really impacted you personally. Glad to hear that impacted you personally. Charlie. What are some things that impacted you this year? I think for the first time maybe in my life, I've learned to respect the allure of other religions. I guess I have always kind of operated from this framework of and by the grace of God, I've been allowed to operate from this framework where I can sit back and say, look, if everybody would just read the scriptures with open eyes, if, if, if you would just listen to the truth, and the truth would make itself clear to you and you like if you really think about all this, it is the same religion. It is just the religion of the world. It's the opinion, whatever word you want to use, and you will come to know the truth, just as I do. If you would really think about this, and now I'm interacting on a regular basis with people that are really, really thinking about it and are still blinded in their understanding, in Paul's words. Um, so that I not not a respect that comes from like, hey, this is an equal religion. Or maybe there is one more than one path to Jesus, but I guess a respect to the threat or or respect to the allure that is the religion of the world. That that is a great insight, Charlie. How has that impacted both the way that you view what God has done for you, but also the work of evangelism. this might be the opposite of what someone would expect me to say, but it's actually given me less ownership over my own faith because, all of a sudden I find myself praying again and again and again. I do believe, help me overcome my unbelief. Instead of just like always saying, well, I'll open up the Book of Concord today and spend a little time in there, I'll balance it out with all this time I'm spending in the Book of Mormon and things like that, which was kind of my approach to beginning of the year, was I just make sure I give more time to the real Jesus than I do to the Mormon Jesus, and everything will even out in the end. And that is absolutely not the way it worked out. Practically speaking, it was just learning to depend more and more and more on the one who does save and the one who does redeem, and less and less and less upon myself, even for the faith that saves. Beautifully said. Thank you for sharing that. Calvin. Yeah, kind of kind of connected to that. I had sort of a a parallel appreciation this year where, I gained a increased familiarity with a large swath of sections of God's Word because we use them so frequently. And then connected to that, a deeper appreciation for just how sweet it is. Um, maybe before this year, apologetics kind of played a bigger role in my mind. And then kind of how Charlie was talking about, now that you're interacting with these other people, you're going through the quote unquote slam dunk arguments. You know, not everything turned to apologetics every now and again. It would. And it just wouldn't go anywhere. Um, but then just kind of realizing, yeah, that's all that's all one thing, but it's, it's the spirit who saves. It's the God's word who's powerful. And so then I'm, I am very, very grateful that, a dozen or so chapters of the Bible that maybe I was familiar with, I now deeply know, because we use it all the time, they're they're on there writing articles on them or sharing them with people and messaging and that kind of thing. So just just the power and the reliance and the familiarity with God's Word stands out to me. That's so that's so encouraging to hear. And I'm hopeful that those 12 chapters that you've become familiar with won't just benefit you in Mormon outreach, but they will benefit you as you serve members of a congregation or even your congregation as you intern full time this next year. you've got those in your toolkit now. So great. Great to hear that. Absolutely. And already, during the school year, we had to teach some catechism lessons. And I found myself kind of reaching for Hebrews chapter seven eight, nine and ten to talk about various things and using it for a lesson and stuff. So yeah, it's and I'm excited to, increase those kinds of chapters I can just access. But anyway, yeah, in a moment, let's come back to some of those very specific chapters and verses that really stuck out to you this year that you've now got on your mind and your lips on a regular basis. grace, first give us your big takeaway, spiritually and biblically, anything from the past six months or so that you've been with us. Yeah, I feel like two things. One more kind of going off of what Charlie was saying, the familiarity we have with the Bible, all of us have, you know, the guy is more than me, but have had so much religious training or Bible knowledge and training and just realizing, like, how much you don't know or just like realizing your need to go deeper and saying, wow, some of this is it needs more study. And as much as the gospel truths that we present are simple. There's still so much that I can't rely on just my own intellect. And I think that kind of goes into what I was originally thinking about. This question is sometimes when you're talking to people, it's really easy to get mad or annoyed or frustrated. And it's hard to, like, open your heart up and let them in because you just want to deal with the frustration instead and kind of safeguard your heart. But it can be really draining talking to people. And that was making me think of Jesus in the Bible. Like, how many times he was demonstrating that the scriptures pointed to him and his miracles were proving like revealing his true nature. And still people were blinded by their unbelief that he was just showing so clearly who he was and why he was there. And even so, even though so many people rejected him, he still longed to gather those people together. And so we have to remind ourselves that being discouraged and sad when we're witnessing and things aren't going the way we want it, like that's normal. but then also thinking of how many times Jesus went alone by himself to pray and to spend more time with God, and just realizing that you can't rely on your own strength in ministry. And so I think God's really been teaching me like I can't rely on just myself, just my knowledge. Like I have to rely on him and he's the only reason that I can do this. That's absolutely beautiful, Grace, and really segues well into one of the next topics that I wanted to address, and that's in our ministry. We spend a lot of time with this. This phrase, Jesus is enough. it's a whole arm of our ministry focused on sharing that catchphrase with latter day Saints, but how has your individual understanding of the grace and sufficiency of Christ grown over the year? how has that grace and sufficiency of Christ just become meaningfully personally to you this year? I think kind of just related to like the everyday sort of stuff. It's almost easier, I think, to say like, yeah, Jesus is sufficient for my eternal life and then forget that, Jesus is sufficient in my everyday witnessing or just my everyday life. Jesus isn't just sufficient to get me into heaven, he's also sufficient. When I think I bombed these conversations with people, or when the atheists think that God's a monster. Like all these times when it feels like it's just attacks on me or what I believe, like remembering that Jesus is sufficient in everything. sometimes we overlook the small stuff because we're so focused on the big picture. Calvin, you had a thought on that too. Yeah. Just appreciating the scope of Christ's work. We deal with a religion, you know, Mormonism, where Christ does a lot even in their system. He it's the removal of sin and guilt and the the everyone goes to a fantastic place of heaven and you sort of, you know, are wiped clean. And then what's missing is that extra addition of, of righteousness on top of the removal of the bad. It's not just removing bad things. It's filling it with goodness and righteousness So, when you're witnessing and dealing with this kind of mindset, it's helped me appreciate that added righteousness, the positive side of what Christ did. It's like, it's it's the diagram. I think it's in it's in one of the books by Tim, but it's the heart with all the minus signs. And then the minus signs are removed away. Now, how do you get to the plus signs or anyway, uh, that that idea is you on face value. You might think, oh, well, they're pretty good. It removes all the sin. That's really great and awesome. And we should rejoice over that. And they do. And it's genuine. Uh, but how much more? So can we rejoice when we have the imputed righteousness, the extra stuff on top, the we are looked at as perfect so that that that yeah, that aspect of it. Awesome. Great. Great illustration there Charlie. Anything to add. Yeah. I think there was a theme this maybe you already hired the new interns, right? I'd have to worry about that. Like the, the theme for my year, as far as witnessing goes, is just this overwhelming helplessness and hopelessness. because I could say exactly the right thing or more often than not, say exactly the wrong thing. thinking it was the right thing. And then the conversation just spins off wildly in some other direction. You go. But the book told me to say this, and I thought it sounded right. And it's a sound theological point, and it just blows up the whole conversation. or things that you have been saying and different strategies you have been using that have been working all of a sudden stop working. And we experienced that after both general conferences, all of a sudden, some strategies we had been using before that worked pretty well, just kind of disappeared overnight and we couldn't use them anymore because they weren't effective. Because their messaging was different. and then even when you do everything right and you have this wonderful opportunity to proclaim the gospel, they go, yeah, I agree with all that. so yeah, I've spent the second half of the semester writing a Christology paper for dogmatics class that I'm now working on turning into a Christology article Jesus is enough. and just putting down on paper who, uh, the LDS teaches God is and what is and what that means for me versus what the Bible teaches about who God is and what that means for me, when you put it that starkly on paper, if what the LDS teaches is true, then there is nothing I can possibly do to ever have any hope of salvation An aura of eternity together with God or any good thing ever in my direction. The only hope that I ever have is to become like Christ at some point, and the whole rest of LDS doctrine is just finding ways to, like, give people a little bit more hope. Well, you can still try after death. Well, you can still, you know, he doesn't expect you to be perfect. Jesus steps in and saves you. Um, that's not what the Book of Mormon teaches. That's not what Doctrine and Covenants teaches. These are things that were added on later. and you compare that then with biblical Christology where the, the one being who had any ability to do anything about it at all, dealt with the problem so thoroughly that we now have freedom that is a stark, stark contrast. That's comfort and hope. Him saying, alright, I started it for you and I gotta go finish the work and hopefully you'll be able to finish it before eternity is over. Just isn't comforting. I love hearing all of you, marvel at the grace and sufficiency of Christ. And ultimately, that's what we want our latter day Saint friends to be able to experience. Is this marveling at God? Uh, another thing that you've all done so well here is describe how difficult it is in those conversations about the Bible and about spiritual matters, to properly divide law and gospel, to know at what moment do I need to continue to hammer the law, and at what moment do I transition to sharing the sweet, sweet gospel message? What have you learned about that this year? And how has your ability to share law and gospel messages sharpened over the years? Um, Luther said that one that can properly divide law and gospel, call him a doctor how are you doing at that? what have you learned this year? Kelvin. So part of dividing law and gospel is determining like which part of God's law needs to be laid upon this person in that moment, or which facet of the gospel needs to be shown them. And that's universally true, there's nothing unique about that process to the LDS. The thing that was unique with Mormons that I experienced is that once you've determined, what law you want to share, or what part of the gospel you want to share is that you have to be so stinkin careful with how you say it. Like, how do you tell people what Jesus has done for them without using the word grace or faith, or even the word saved, or referring to the cross at all, or even the word heaven? I Yeah. Loaded words that mean something very different. Yeah. Yeah. Like sin, eternal life, damnation. Like none of that. None of that. You can use none of that. So it took a while because Like I said words I didn't think you had to avoid. I learned to avoid. And so then you have to you have to be creative use analogies or parables or other biblical images, rather than using these words. Anyway, that that was tough. And that's a skill I think is useful also outside of the Mormon church. You know, if people aren't very biblically literate, that's it's that those words have the same kind of roadblock with them. So that, yeah, that was tough. That was a good transition. And I think it's a very useful skill just in general too. Awesome. Thank you so much. Great, great examples here. Earlier, some of you started to refer to specific parts of the Bible chapters or verses that have become precious to you and ones that you're sharing on a regular basis. Talk to me about some of those and how they've become precious to you, but also wonderful tools to share in your witness. a big turning point for me this year was looking at Galatians, closely, and the question that came in my mind was, why does Paul rebuke Peter so harshly? What's going on in Galatians and especially chapter two? It's really been helpful for me and I'm just going to read the verses. I wrote down two verses 15 to 21, I just really think articulates very well how we should be approaching any law based faith system. So here's, here's Paul saying, we who are by Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles, know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we too have put our faith in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified. But if in seeking to be justified in Christ, we Jews find ourselves also among sinners, doesn't that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not. If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a lawbreaker Raker for through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing. And I don't know how much more I can add to that to make it more powerful than just the words beautiful section. I really appreciated what you said there, John, about how this section really speaks for itself. And I think even the way that you set it up with this was a man who was one of the the apostles, and yet he was starting to teach a Jesus plus theology, and he had to be called out for it. And I think just setting that section up in that way simply can be very powerful. Yeah. Other, other portions of Scripture that have become meaningful. Uh, Hebrews 1214. Uh, the word of the Lord is living and active, sharper than any two edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and spirit, of joints and marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. I have no ability or even responsibility to convert anyone. All I do is I wield faithfully as a good steward. I wield faithfully the sword of the spirit, which is the Word of God. Uh, I keep coming back with the Word of God again and again and again, and praying that it's effective, both in my own life and my own heart, and in the lives and hearts of the people that are hearing the word of the Lord. And, uh, that is the very best I can do. And that can be a hard pill to swallow also. but it does teach me to trust my Heavenly Father just a little bit more. Wonderful. A great verse to use in witnessing and one to apply to ourselves. Grace. Did you have one? Yeah. So one of the things with Mormonism is the difference for us between the amputation of sin versus the imputation of God's, righteousness. so the Book of Mormon teaches that God can't save you in your sin, that if God saved us while we were in our sin, we'd still be unclean, and no unclean thing can live with God. So that's why God can save us from our sins, but he can't save us in our sins. And because this has come up several times, it ended up leading me to a Bible passage, which I probably wasn't too familiar with before. but I love the picture that it paints. It's Colossians two, verses 13 to 14. So when you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having cancelled the debt of our legal indebtedness which stood against us and condemned us. He has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. And I love that in multiple ways. One, because it points out that when we were dead in our sins, sense, that's when God made us alive. We didn't have to get rid of our sins before we were saved. And also just that, that verse has the cross in it, that he nailed our debt to the cross. And that's when it was paid for. Especially just because the cross isn't as loved in Mormonism. So I love both of those aspects of that verse. Awesome verse to share. Thank you. Great insights everyone. Calvin, did you have a final thought here? Yeah. So that same idea, you mentioned that no, no unclean thing or no unholy thing can live in God's presence. So when when working on the the temple article for, Jesus Is Enough and a couple other places, it was sort of when you focus on if you track over the history of salvation, the history of the Bible up to the present day where God lives, you get this really cool truth. Anyway, so he starts off, he's in the Garden of Eden, and then sin enters the world. He kicks mankind out. jumping ahead. He then uses I'm going to dwell in the temple and he says, nope, I'm going to come as a man and I'm going to dwell, you know, Jesus. And then he's going to dwell in your hearts. The the truth that we are the temple of God. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit, that God dwells in us. It's said in ten different ways, but it's all capturing that mystical union that you and God are dwelling with each other. So, you know, the the logic goes like this. You know, that no unclean thing can be in the presence of God and survive. You know that God dwells within you. You know you're still alive. You haven't been destroyed. Therefore you must be clean. Um, so just the fact that God lives in you proves that you are as holy as he is, or as you need to be to be with him, and you're already with him. you can't progress any higher level of holiness to perfection than God. So anyway, just just tracking where God's presence is and the fact that he's in my heart. Um, that was a really, really cool gospel truth. Calvin, you're speaking my love language. You're nerding out on the temple and all the ways it points to Christ just as much as I do. So I'm glad I've brought you to that place this year, so that's good. Of course. Yes. It is amazing to hear how God's Word has impacted you personally, what he's done in your individual lives. And the next thing I want to hear about is, so the Word of God has worked on your hearts in your lives. How has he then used your brains and your lips? what what has God done through you? Can you each share with me just a single conversation that you had this past year that you would say, this is one that I'm going to remember for years to come. I think we all have conversations in our lives that that we'd say, yeah, God, God did something there. And I'd love to hear this year, was there one of those for you that you're going to remember for years to come. Charlie. Um, let me get teared up. Choked up at Starbucks saying talking about this. Um, but I remember this wasn't that long ago. Um, I had an email exchange with you and Molly just trying to decide whether it was worth my time. Like, because you guys are the ones who determine what I do with my time for the most part. So whether or not it was worth my time to continue having a conversation with a guy that was just, rowdy and, insulting and. he was doing everything from attacking me personally, to just outright lies about the work that we're doing and things like that, accusing us of all kinds of things and all over the comment sections. And I don't know at what point this thought came to my mind, but there came a moment where I just thought to myself, if I were him, I would want me to keep trying. Um, if he knew, like if he knew what I knew, he would beg me to keep trying, right? what he needs is to hear what I know. And what I know is the word of the Lord, which is true. And that can provide him all the comfort that he's looking for. It can provide him all the peace and security that he's looking for. And by the grace of God, I had people in my life from a young age who consistently brought that message to me. I don't think I got through this guy. but that began to frame all of my conversations with LDS from then on, and it continues to do so to this day, is what if that were me? How thankful would I be that somebody tried? I appreciate that story, Charlie, because it's one that's very open ended still. And, um, even in its open endedness, you have found it to be impactful. Yeah. Other stories. Kelvin, what's one for you? This is a a much, much different story than the one Charlie just shared. Uh, but it was an in-person conversation. This was, right around New Year's. I can't remember if it was before or after, but I have met with the this pair of sister missionaries, maybe close to a dozen times at this point. And it was our one of our last conversations because they got reassigned like legitimately 4 or 5 days later and we're sitting and we're talking and, you know, we're in the late stages of it, and we're I'm maybe controlling the conversation a little bit more. And, witnessing a gospel presentation, that kind of thing pointing out differences but, it's very friendly still. And at one point near the end, in almost these exact words, they asked me, all right, well do you think that we are going to hell. And I've never had somebody ask me like that, that simply they might say, what do you believe about hell or who goes to hell or that kind of thing? But it was very personal. It was you sitting across from the couch from me. Do you think I'm going to hell? And so then it turned into an amazing, gospel presentation based off of Galatians five, which talks about, if you add anything, if you're trying to justify yourself by the law, you're cut off from Christ. And I talked about, what the LDS church teaches and that kind of thing. And I more or less said, if believing these things, as stated by the LDS church, I don't know your heart specifically, but as stated, that is what Galatians five talks about. It alienates you from Christ. It leads to hell. And I thought I was going to lose him because I, I, I did not pull punches. And then the conversation kind of dies down and then, then they're saying, we want to meet again. We love you guys. Like let's keep talking. And it was crazy. So it was just such a such a personal question, a deep question And my answer did not get the reaction at all that I would expect. Uh, I didn't simply just say, yes, I do think you're going to hell because But anyway, I got I came really close And they still said all these positive things. So anyway, that was very, very memorable. Cool. Well, sounds like you had built a really strong relationship with them that they they wanted to know what you personally thought. That's great. John, what's a memorable story for you? Yeah, I was my first thought was at the temple where I had a really awesome conversation with Brian, but the one that's really sticking in my mind at this very moment is. One of the first conversations I had with Mormon missionaries was last year while I was in Columbus. Um, I had just preached my first Good Friday sermon. And it certainly was not as good as I had hoped. Uh, so I was feeling a little bit defeated, but it was the Saturday between Good Friday and Easter Sunday. I was taking out the trash and I ran into two missionaries, Luke and Joshua, and I saw that they had name tags, and all of a sudden I just I really perked up. I was like, man, I, I've talked to this was After the first time I did a mission trip through truth and love. And so I was like, okay, I kind of, I kind of know what they believe. I kind of have some things that I'd like to say to them. And we started talking and I was telling him, you know, the stress that comes with trying to preach for the first time on Holy Week. And I was talking to him about, you know, do you guys do Holy Week in the LDS church? And, what do you know about Good Friday? And we went through Isaiah 53 because that's what I had preached on the Suffering Servant. And I just said, I'm going to I'm going to sit down here and read this Old Testament passage which they they were familiar with, but just as I read it. Who comes to your mind as I read about this servant, the the suffering servant? He is pierced for our transgressions, crushed for our iniquity. The blood that was on we by his wounds we are healed. All of that. But then I got towards the end of the passage and it talks about he will see the light of life and be satisfied. And I spent a good amount of time just talking through what it means that God is satisfied. like something has been done for you already before you were born. That makes God at peace. And I was just kind of in a mood. And God puts these two young men right there in my life where I'm able to just take them through what I had just preached, like it was just on my mind. And I got the opportunity to bring it home as I wanted. I was hoping for. And towards the end of the meeting, we sat down and and said a prayer and they both ended up getting relocated. I didn't get to see either of them again, but there is a cross that one of the kids gave me at the grade school on the fridge and I said, hey, why don't you just take this with you? Uh, and just with tears in his eyes, Joshua took that cross and I never see him again. I don't know what what what ends up happening, but it was it was a one of the most beautiful, beautiful story, John. Special, and I think it's emphasized quite a few of the things we've already covered today of just how, when God works a specific Bible passage into our own hearts and minds, that we're then ready to share it. And you may have felt, oh, I dropped the ball, or I didn't hit the ball out of the park in front of the congregation that You had thought this message was going to be for. But God had these two young men in mind, Yeah. What a beautiful one. Let's see. Have we heard from everyone on a story? Grace did. Did you have one? Yeah. I guess this one's still kind of up in the air. It's more like the response to it is still kind of coming, I think, he responded. And I haven't really read it. And I don't expect anything crazy because I think, honestly, all of us have probably talked to him on Facebook, so we've been having conversations with him for a while. I don't think this is the one to get him up, but he had asked me, um, if I was prepared to receive all that God has for me and what that looks like. And so I wanted to kind of have him expand on that a little bit. And, you know, what do you mean by that? But he mostly just kind of started saying about him how he feels, which is fine too. But he started saying that he's not sure if he's ready to receive all that God has for him, but he's had dreams and feelings and impressions and experiences that have motivated him and that are in harmony with the Book of Mormon. And they motivate how he's motivated, how he's lived, and he's learned to accept Christ's divine help to become stronger. And his capacity is enlarged to know more about God. And he believes he's in reach of God. Maybe not perfection, but like in reach of the one who is perfect, and that he hopes to be reunited. And he always has these really long messages. Um, but then at the end he's like, well, I'm also thankful for Jesus. And I thought that was funny. And I was like, well, you know, he gets through all of it and then at the end has to tack on while he's thankful for Jesus. and so instead of kind of like directly responding to that, I said, well, what is God prepared for me, and how do I know those are what I wanted to focus on? So I know that Heavenly Father has prepared a place for me with him in eternal life, and I am more than prepared to go there in multiple ways. And the one hand, I'm prepared to go to a place with no more pain or sadness or sorrow, where there's no more tears, and where I will praise, honor and glorify my Lord. And I'm ready to leave this sinful world and have perfect peace. And what joy it is to be confident in the Paradise that Heavenly Father has promised me. So in that sense, very prepared to go there. But then because in his response, he had focused so much on his dreams and impressions and experiences. I kind of just wanted to go down the feelings path, because I feel like that really needs to be addressed sometimes, and kind of in the way that if you're someone who's had like depression or anxiety or anything like that, you know that you don't want to trust your feelings. And I've had those moments, So I said, there's so many times where I've felt uncertain and anxious, and often anxiety pushes the strongest feelings of people not loving you or not wanting to talk to you, not wanting you in their life. All of that. And I'm so thankful that my confidence in being prepared for eternal life has nothing to do with my feelings. That if I had to be confident about God based on feeling like he loved me, or feeling that he approved of me, I probably would never be confident in that, because the people closest to me are the ones that my emotions tend to mess with the most And so I've gone down. So many like dark emotional paths with my feelings. But it's also in those moments when I can turn to the Bible because I know that God never lies and he keeps all his promises. So I can read about all of that reassurance, especially for my eternal life, that Jesus didn't just suffer to know what I'm going through or how to comfort me, that he came because God tells me that I'm a dead, rotten sinner who should be cast out of his sight. And thank God that he's told me that, because then I know how much I need him. But Jesus lived the perfect life. He loved perfectly. He obeyed perfectly, he understood righteous anger. And when I've been frustrated in these conversations and have probably sinned in that way. Jesus never sinned in his frustration or his tiredness, and he lived that life that I could never live. And then he died to satisfy the death that God said, an innocent life needs to be taken to pay for sin and all of that. He died, and then he rose to guarantee that his perfection would be credited to me for where I stand before God. So I don't need to worry about how I feel, because I know that God loves me because of Christ. And he declares that I've never fallen short and that I've never offended anyone, and that I've never been guilty. And Christ perfection has been given to me. So I know with full confidence that I'm prepared. And that was kind of my answer. But it just made me think like, you know, typing out the answer to him, that sometimes you just need to hear what you're telling people to, and just the blessing it is to be able to share gospel truths that you're in turn, hearing for yourself. Absolutely powerful stories. one of the things that, again, it's just making me so thankful for the journey that we've been on together, is how I can see how God has used each of your own unique backgrounds educations and experiences in different ways. And that's one of the things that I just constantly emphasize to our Christian witnesses is you don't all need to do what Mark Harris did, or what Mark Parsons does, or what Calvin or John or Charlie or Grace does. Use the stories and use the spiritual, impactful conversations that have already happened in your life and build on those. And that's where I want to go as we wrap up this part of our two part series is what what encouragement do you have for our listeners today that are just so different, um, different places in the country where they're at different types of people that they're witnessing to. What encouragement do you have for them to just keep at it? Charlie? Yeah. I don't know why. Actually, I do have a theory as to why. Especially more confessional churches lean pretty hard away from testimony and bearing witness and things like that in worship. In worship. But that doesn't make it any less powerful or any less of a of an effective tool for the actual sharing of the gospel. Um, and people want to know what makes you tick. People. That's what people find interesting about you. so outside of even the witnessing world, when people meet you, they don't want to know some facade that you put up. They want to know you. They want to understand what makes you tick, what makes you act the way you do, what makes you light up, what you have passion about, and so forth. That's what they want to know. and, Scripture says you should always be able to explain the hope that we have we should always have a reason for it. and, I think latching on to what you just said, I am not Mark cares. And I've tried really hard to use Mark cares words to witness to Mormons. And it doesn't work for Charlie. Unfortunately, um, I kind of wish it did, but it doesn't. And I've tried so many times to be Mark Parsons, and it's not working. So go show people what Christ is and who Christ is and what it means to you. And they will find that interesting. And they will ask questions, and they will want to know more, and they won't even know what your goal and the conversation is. along those lines. Unless you're doing, you know, an at door don't force the subject matter. You know what I'm saying with that? You gotta let these relationships grow. Uh, because it might just be your fourth or fifth or sixth or however many times Calvin met with those two missionaries before he was able to really get the message that he was hoping to get across across. Um, so it said just something from Galatians two. Since we live by the spirit, let us keep in step with the spirit. Don't get ahead of yourself. Just let it happen organically, naturally and naturally. Means, like Charlie said, be yourself. Connected to that as well. Just be natural. Be there. You don't need a degree from Seminary with classes in apologetics and whatever to be able to witness and share the good news. You know what? You know, you believe what you believe, share it in a way that is impactful to you. I think, and I have felt this, I probably I still feel it too, that you we get so concerned about not knowing what to say that we don't say anything. and we get very down on ourselves because we're just doubting. And you know what? If I say the wrong words or if I don't have a response to what they say like that, that's kind of thinking it's good to be prepared, but part of it is also just, How do you naturally say it? You don't need a degree in theology to to witness. Just just share, share it. The kind of the testimony aspect to it there too. And if you don't have the ability. If you find yourself struggling to put your faith into words, take that as an opportunity to grow in your faith. What do I believe? Why do I believe that? What does that mean? Both. Like, literally. What does it mean? And what does it mean to me? Um, if you can't answer those questions, that's okay. Go spend some time in the word, meditate on it, think about it, and find a way to to say it. Uh, because that's an important part of just you and your own faith anyway. You have some ownership of that. So, so many good thoughts here. To two that were really resonating with me is each of us using our own gifts and abilities, and that you don't have to have a seminary degree in order to be able to witness to Mormons. Um, I am looking forward to tremendously, going door to door in Idaho Falls with my now 12 year old daughter again. Um, Amy was my partner last summer when we were down in Logan for many days, and it was incredible to see how God used not the voice of 40 plus year old Mark Parsons, pastor, missionary to Mormons, but this little 11 year old just innocently sharing her faith. And what an impact that had on so many, especially women. Um, that that just said, who are you and what are you doing? And what do you want to tell me? And she just just went and, you can all do that too. So thanks for sharing those stories. Grace, did you have any final thoughts on just encouragement for our Christian witnesses that are out there faithfully serving on the front lines? Yeah, I guess I was thinking, almost one of those encouragements in the Bible that comes off a little harsh is when God is talking to Moses, and Moses says, like, I have it right here. Like, pardon your servant Lord. I've never been eloquent, neither in the past nor since you have spoken to your servant. I'm slow of speech and tongue. And you know, he's like, listen, there's someone better. There's someone else who can go and be your messenger and lead your people. Like, it's not me. Like, just find someone else. And that's kind of a little harsh with him. You know, it says, the Lord said to him who gave human beings their mouths, who makes them deaf or mute? Who gives them sight or makes them blind? Is it not I, the Lord? Now go. I will be with you. I will help you speak and will teach you what to say. And obviously it's not like a 1 to 1. But in the New Testament we also have encouragements to go and preach to all nations. But just a reminder that there's really no excuse God is with you. He'll teach you what to say. He has it in his word. And like Charlie said, if you don't know, then that's your opportunity to go deeper and learn what you believe and read in the Bible so you can proclaim grace. I don't think you could have picked a better verse to wrap up this part of the conversation and prepare us for next week, and that's that. God will be with us when we go out and open our mouths and share the gospel. But one of the most gracious things that God does right after this is he actually gives Moses someone to go with him, a human being, his brother Aaron, and really says, you're not going to be alone. I'm going to be with you. But I'm also going to give you a teammate and a partner in, in ministry. And I am privileged to not just be hearing these young men and this young woman here, but to see their faces. And they've become part of a beautiful team here at Truth and Love. Uh, over this year, uh, you know, beards and all, they are these beautiful guys, that we've served together. And we hope that all of you listening feel that same way, that we are not out there on our own. God is with us. But we're with each other. And as we look forward to our next conversation, that's where I want to lean into. Next is what does it look like to work as a team in this, to, comfort each other, convict each other at times, and guide each other forward. So we've heard how God has sharpened, these young people's understanding of the gospel, how he's been with them in real life conversations. We're prayerful that it's been encouraging to you. Next time, we're going to talk about some of the surprises and challenges of this past year, but also look forward to the ways in which they're going to use all of the things that they've been taught this year out in their new callings, and then how that's going to impact you in your fears and your frustrations, and then the faithfulness that God has given you in your life. So, grace, Calvin, John, Charlie, thank you so much for sharing about this year. We look forward to our final conversation next week, and all of the wonderful things that God has in store for you over the coming years. Thanks for listening everyone. We'll be back again next week.