EP 15: Diversifying Green Jobs, ‘Doing it Scared,’ and Climate Love Connections with Kristy Drutman a.k.a. Brown Girl Green

In this episode, guest Kristy Drutman shares her journey from burnt out climate activist to founder of the Green Jobs Board and climate media superstar. Kristy is connecting climate leaders, amplifying green jobs, and fighting for a world of equitable and fair climate labor. 

Kristy touches on how her specific identities have shaped her approach to climate work and have encouraged her to look out for connections that others might not see. In this episode, she discusses her years of climate activism and shares how her own journey using her podcast Brown Girl Green as a networking opportunity inspired her to start the Green Jobs Board, where she connects folks with jobs that make a difference. Across all of her work, Kristy emphasizes the importance of letting community guide the way and staying open to new experiences. As she reminds listeners, “do it scared.” The world around us is shifting, and we need the courage and audacity to shift with it. 

Kristy Drutman, otherwise known as “Browngirl Green” is a speaker, consultant, media producer, and environmental educator passionate about working at the intersections between media, diversity, and environmentalism. As a young entrepreneur, Kristy has educated hundreds of thousands of people across the globe about modern-day environmental issues through speeches and media content as well as facilitates workshops centered around environmental media and storytelling in cities across the United States. Kristy is also the Co-Founder of the Green Jobs Board, a climate tech start-up bridging the equity and inclusion gap within the green economy through conversations, resources, and pathways to bring more diverse talent into the environmental field.

Kristy's Socials
Instagram/TT: @browngirlgreen / @greenjobsboard
X: @BrownGirl_Green / @GreenJobs_Board
Website: https://www.browngirlgreen.com / https://www.greenjobsboard.us/

Seeding Sovereignty's Socials
Instagram/TikTok/Twitter/YouTube: @seedingsovereignty
Website: www.seedingsovereignty.org

Madeleine's Socials
Instagram: @madeleinemacgillivray
Website: www.madeleinemacgillivray.com

Transcript

KRISTY (00:00.078)
podcast.

Madeleine (00:01.63)
got it got it you get it um okay hi christy hi thank you so much for coming on i'm so excited to talk to you and have this conversation i've been wanting to talk for a while ever since we started the podcast

KRISTY (00:17.694)
Oh my gosh, I'm so glad that I was thought of in the OG days.

Madeleine (00:23.525)
Yeah, the OG days being already all the way back in January. It's pretty amazing how time flies.

KRISTY (00:28.182)
Wow.

KRISTY (00:31.758)
Time flies when you're having critical conversations.

Madeleine (00:35.731)
It's, it's, this is true. And we've been like, so thoughtful about it. And, you know, we've had basically one conversation per month, because that's, you know, having a podcast is quite a production, as you know. And so, you know, this is, yeah, this is like, just a conversation that I've been so excited to have. Isaiah was our first guest, as you know, that was.

KRISTY (00:51.595)
Yes.

KRISTY (01:01.011)
Yes!

Madeleine (01:02.342)
brilliant first conversation. So yeah, just so excited to have you on. And talk about green jobs and climate movement and your podcast and everything else you're up to. And your journey, because as you know, this podcast is really about talking to folks who have, I would say, we're all

constantly on this existential process of finding our quote unquote climate powers. But I also think that, you know, you and our other guests that we've had on are people who have a lot of it figured out at this point in time in your life. Like you can, you know, like, okay, I know. Okay. Like a lot of none of us haven't figured out, but like a lot of your, your

KRISTY (01:52.038)
No, I, yeah, I get you.

KRISTY (01:56.8)
Right.

Madeleine (01:58.782)
climate powers, like you can say, I'm Christy and I, you know, x, y, z. Actually, maybe it would be helpful for listeners to hear, like, I haven't actually asked a guest this, but I think it'd be really great for you to actually say, like, in your own words what your climate powers are. Like mine are, you know, like I...

KRISTY (02:05.07)
Got you.

Madeleine (02:23.422)
can distill maybe a complex or esoteric topic that particularly relates to climate in a way that humanizes it and grounds it. And I love doing that. And that's like one of my climate powers. So what are yours or what is yours?

KRISTY (02:40.266)
Yeah, I would say that mine is storytelling. I view myself as a bridge builder, as someone who is able to make things that people otherwise wouldn't have connected the dots to. I think I'm really good at doing the dot connecting and doing it in a way that makes people feel included. I really try to make people not feel stupid. I really am about like,

Madeleine (03:07.506)
Hehehe

KRISTY (03:09.886)
you know, meeting people where they are, meeting them halfway, and doing that in a way that connects them to new ideas and concepts that maybe they didn't consider before. And a lot of my work has been using digital media tools to do that dot connecting, and I've done that through my platform Brown Girl Green, and I've also done that through my company Green Jobs Board. And...

what I do with all of those bits is using storytelling as a tool to tell a new story about these very entrenched complex systemic issues and telling stories in a way that makes people feel like they're a part of that journey and want to be building those solutions along with me. So I would say my superpower is making things relatable, accessible and less scary.

Madeleine (03:59.293)
Yeah.

KRISTY (04:06.198)
when it comes to these issues. So yeah.

Madeleine (04:08.583)
Yeah, you absolutely do. You 100%. Those are your climate powers. Absolutely. I see it just emanating from you. You do it every day. It's true. Yeah. And it's wonderful. And I think it would be great to...

KRISTY (04:24.686)
Thanks. Thank you.

Madeleine (04:33.554)
really unpack your journey. I kind of want to just dive right in. And for folks who are listening, Christy just listed off her amazing climate powers. And where was like, let's start from the beginning almost. Let's start as early on as you want to. How did you get to this point?

KRISTY (04:38.542)
Sure.

KRISTY (04:57.282)
Sure.

KRISTY (05:02.879)
Yeah.

Madeleine (05:04.27)
of what you're doing now. What has your climate journey looked like? Have you been interested in environmentalism your whole life? What made you call to this work? Where did you come in from and when? Tell us. Yes.

KRISTY (05:06.881)
Yeah.

KRISTY (05:10.731)
Yeah.

KRISTY (05:19.554)
Where did I, where did I beam in from? Yeah, I mean, where did I beam in from? I would say that my journey began, I grew up in a multicultural mixed race household. I grew up with a Filipino mother and a Jewish father. So I grew up in a Jewish Filipino household. And already when I tell people that, they're like, you grew up quite unique in that way. And I did.

Madeleine (05:47.638)
Mm-hmm.

KRISTY (05:49.458)
I did in a lot of ways. I grew up really saying things through like the lens of someone who didn't fit a lot of like conventional standards. And most people who probably are going to listen to this who identified as being multi-ethnic or mixed race probably relate a lot to that. The like when you are born and you grow up that way, you already kind of start cultivating the superpower of being a bridge builder because you have to.

your literal existence is between two completely different worlds. And I think that helped become the, the fertile soil of becoming like an activist in a lot of ways, because my advocacy was never based in, I have to be right. I have to be the only one. I want to see things from different angles. I want to figure out how to make sure that I'm

seeing who is and who isn't in the conversation, seeing where there might be biases or blind spots. I think all of that was really rooted in growing up in an environment and an upbringing that really exposed me to so many different types of like lives and cultures and existences simultaneously. And so that presented the foundation for

the later work I would be doing to also be bringing so many different stakeholders and groups and conversations together. And so I see direct parallels between those two things and the work that I do now. And my parents weren't really like environmentalists, but I would say that my mom and just growing up in a Filipino or Asian household was inherently sustainable. We were always saving.

Madeleine (07:35.315)
Mm.

KRISTY (07:37.226)
our plastic bags, we were always reusing things. We were always, you know, my Lola or my grandmother planted a bunch of fruit trees and flowers around our like little yard in the suburbs. And you know, it was with plants and fruits even from the Philippines and things like that. And you know, she was just very connected to the land. And I think for me, she also was a really big foundation.

Madeleine (08:06.366)
Hmm.

KRISTY (08:06.402)
for my, I guess you could say, connection to sustainability and environmentalism because I saw her just like connection. And to this day, those plants and those trees are still in front of my parents' front yard, 20 to almost 30 years later, without even needing much maintenance because she just kind of like made it happen and created a good foundation for them.

Madeleine (08:33.07)
Yeah.

KRISTY (08:35.454)
And so I always like to reference my Lola as well as my multicultural upbringing as like the two key pillars of the beginnings of my environmental ethics, I guess you could say, but I never viewed myself as like an environmentalist growing up. Like I wasn't really involved in much of that until like probably high school or like later in life, where like I would do some like beach cleanups and I joined the environmental club at school and things like that. And most of that was just...

You know, if I'm being perfectly honest, at the time, it was a lot of just like wanting to do good in the world and thinking that was like the right thing to do, but it wasn't like, oh my gosh, I need to make this about my whole life or anything like that. But then yeah, like I got really passionate about human rights issues in high school, learned about human trafficking, learned about water scarcity happening worldwide.

Madeleine (09:15.876)
Mm. Right.

KRISTY (09:31.542)
And so that was kind of the beginnings of where I was educating myself in my own little small town world where I grew up in California and just like Was like, you know, maybe I can do something good in the world. And so then yeah, I went to university to UC Berkeley studied environmental policy again, not knowing what I was gonna do with that and then University really just like That's like what really cracked open everything

Madeleine (09:38.181)
Yeah.

Madeleine (09:56.466)
Hmm.

KRISTY (10:00.174)
And at the same time, Typhoon Haiyan hit the Philippines. And that was at the beginning of my college career. And so it was like, I'm learning about climate change and environmental issues in this very academic way. And now all of a sudden, I'm really noticing typhoons in the Philippines where I still have cousins and I still have aunts and family members who live there. And all of a sudden it was like, this is not just some.

Madeleine (10:03.932)
Wow.

KRISTY (10:28.434)
you know, nice thing to do. Like this is actually like scary and terrifying. And yeah, I just felt like I needed to do something. And so I got just so actively involved. Like I just jumped head deep into youth activism, student activism at UC Berkeley. Again, had never been exposed to any of that. I was not.

Madeleine (10:31.249)
Right.

KRISTY (10:52.626)
I was not like a Fridays for Future kid or anything. I didn't have that. Maybe if I had that when I was in high school, maybe I would have been one of those kids, but I didn't have that. So yeah, I'd never really done activism kind of things at that point. And so I was just trying, I was in this process of learning, but also going to rallies, trying to get petition signatures, trying to get UC Berkeley to divest from fossil fuels. I was just in it.

Madeleine (10:54.791)
Hmm

Madeleine (11:00.382)
Hmm.

KRISTY (11:19.806)
at a young age without even knowing what I was really doing. I just knew I needed to do something, but like literally frontal lobe was not developed. You know what I mean? But like the heart was there and the passion was there. And with all that being said, I was so passionate, but then I got really burnt out because I went nonstop for like almost a year and a half of doing that. Literally freshman year of college and the sophomore year. And I remember I just like hit this wall.

Madeleine (11:19.863)
Hehehe

Madeleine (11:31.367)
Yes.

Madeleine (11:40.891)
Mmm.

Madeleine (11:48.712)
Hmm.

KRISTY (11:50.67)
um to where like you know I started not doing well in school and my mental health was not doing well and I didn't really know what my purpose was or like why I was doing this work and it felt really hopeless like my eco anxiety was like extreme and I felt just so pessimistic about like the future of the world and having you know so many doors

shot on young people and being in so many environments where that kept happening, I just felt so pessimistic and kind of just like was like I'm giving up activism. I literally did and of course I have the privilege to do that. But at the time it was like I can't do this, I'm just one person. It was just very negative pessimistic thinking. I remember that year, that was the first year I put myself into therapy myself. I started understanding my mental health.

and took a pause and I was like, what exactly is my role in all of this? So I remember I just like took a kind of a hiatus where I was just like, obviously studying and still passionate, still plugged in some ways, but like really going through this process of figuring out what was my role in it all. And I remember I just started listening to some of like the big environmental.

journalists and storytellers, you know, from NPR and Andrew Revkin and all these like big climate journalists. And I was like, interested, I was like, I wonder where the world of climate journalism is. And I started going to some events and talking to climate scientists and they just kept saying, we're so frustrated that we keep putting these messages out in the world and no one's listening to us.

Madeleine (13:30.523)
Hmm

KRISTY (13:42.426)
And during that time, I remember like I kept posting on social media, even in college, about just what I was doing, like rallies, sharing information, sharing like the causes I cared about just organically, almost like a blog, but just as fun. And I remember people just started being like, Oh, like because you posted that I like decided to like do my own petition at my school or like I.

Madeleine (13:55.525)
Mm.

Madeleine (14:04.862)
Mmm.

KRISTY (14:08.522)
I remember it was just like, I remember my friend was like, I never even knew about issues around fracking or, you know, and things like that. And because I was posting about that on my own personal page, they researched it. And I was like, whoa, that's interesting. And I remember trying to see like, there is these climate journalists. And then I was like, and then I'm seeing what's going on in social media. I'm like, is anyone really like using social media to talk about climate change? And this was back in like 2016, 2017. And at the time,

Madeleine (14:15.098)
Mm-hmm.

Madeleine (14:36.679)
Mm.

KRISTY (14:37.834)
majority of the blogs that were existing out there were majority like by white women doing lifestyle sustainability. A lot of the people are my friends now, but it was just funny because it's like back then, like that was majority what you saw on the internet. And I remember, you know, I'm skipping a lot of things, but we're trying to keep it truncated, trying to keep it short and sweet. There was also a stint where I lived in the Philippines and that's a whole other thing. But you know,

Madeleine (14:45.283)
Right.

Madeleine (14:51.363)
Yeah.

Madeleine (14:58.524)
Hehehehehehe

Madeleine (15:03.543)
Oh wow.

KRISTY (15:07.71)
All my experiences and activism from youth activism to then, yeah, I later lived in the Philippines for a summer and did activism with Filipino climate activists on the grounds, gathered all these experiences, talked to some climate scientists, realized they can't get their message out, realized I would talk to frontline activists, they couldn't get their message out, talked to other young people of color at universities, they felt like they couldn't get their message out and didn't feel seen because of like

the racist historic roots of the environmental movement that's pushed out, you know, leadership of color has not really highlighted leadership of color. And all of these experiences swirled around my brain. And then I reached a point where I was like journalism and media and social media. And I was like, why are there not more blogs that are talking about frontline activism or putting

Madeleine (15:54.792)
Mmm.

KRISTY (16:04.366)
people of color at the frontline of this story, even though we're seeing the reality on the ground that those are the people most impacted by these issues. But yet we're not seeing that reflected in media by any means. So then I had the idea my last semester of university, through encouragement for mentors, they're like, why don't you start a podcast? And I was like, should I? And they're like, you have a good voice for a podcast. I was like, oh, thanks.

Madeleine (16:30.65)
I'm sorry.

Madeleine (16:34.289)
Mm-hmm.

KRISTY (16:34.454)
And I was like, sure. So I remember I was just sitting at a cafe one day and I had my hand next to a leaf. And I was like, Brown Girl Green, that's a concept. And it just clicked for me. I was like, yeah, Brown Girl. I'm a Brown Girl and I care about green things. And I was like, I'm going to make a podcast called Brown Girl Green. And that is how it started. And honestly, the reason I started it.

Madeleine (16:48.848)
Oh my God.

KRISTY (17:03.442)
was because of this journalist's fire in me where I was like, there needs to be a platform on the internet that's talking about these things. But then at the same time, I also wanted a job when I graduated for being perfectly honest. And I was like, what if I use this podcast? I was like, what if I use this podcast to try to meet a mentor or someone who could maybe get me a job, like straight up? I was just like, and maybe I'll find like.

Madeleine (17:16.678)
Hmm. Yeah, well, minor detail. Yeah.

Madeleine (17:29.982)
That's great.

KRISTY (17:31.686)
mentors of color. And so I literally like didn't even know a lot of the guests that I originally had. But I just like cold call emailing different anyone who identified as like a person of color in the environmental field who's viewed as a thought leader as just hitting them up in their DMS and was like, I need you to be on this show that like doesn't, you know, at that time, like, you know, of course, I had some.

notoriety because of my youth activism, but like a lot of these people had no idea who I was. And they took a chance on me and were just like, yeah, like, let me share my story. And I met some of my mentors I still have today, like, by creating that. And yeah, I figured I was like, you know what, like, I've never studied media, I've never studied business. I self taught myself everything.

And, you know, just kind of was like, I'm gonna figure it out. And so I just started building mentors and building support systems for creating content on the internet about basically environmental justice, where I was centering the voices of Black, Indigenous, people of color and trying to find more stories and finding people who I felt like people should know about. And I just started digging, just started digging and started posting on the internet about it because no one else was.

And I just was like, let me do it, let me do it. And it was wild because, you know, I was doing that for like almost, you know, a year and a half when I got my first nonprofit job. And then, you know, basically I was building this blog after my nine to five hours and just like, it started from a podcast to a blog to videos. And then eventually like people were really getting into it and were like.

we want you to put more stuff out. And yeah, like it just resulted in this snowball effect of like me starting to like form this persona and identity out in the world as someone who was using the internet to educate people about issues that I felt people weren't talking about when it came to environmental justice issues. Of course, people out in the world are talking about it, but on the internet, I wasn't seeing it as much. So I was like, you know, I'm gonna be.

Madeleine (19:46.61)
Hmm.

KRISTY (19:50.114)
the conduit, the person bringing this to more people. And yeah, that's basically what I've been doing for now. The past six years of my life, and then two years ago, it became my full-time job. Of course, I'm skipping over a lot of that too, but those are details. But yeah, it became my full-time job two years ago. And then from all of that, like about a year, no, two years ago when this became my full-time job.

Madeleine (20:08.464)
Yeah.

KRISTY (20:20.43)
I started posting content on the internet about green jobs, because again, like I said, it was really hard for me to find a job out of college. And I was hustling. I created a podcast to try to find a job. I was trying to do it all to find a job and sure, I got one, but it wasn't an easy process. And I remember in my head, it was summer of 2021. So two years ago.

Madeleine (20:24.05)
Yeah.

Madeleine (20:35.368)
Hehehehehehehehe Yeah

KRISTY (20:49.306)
And I was like, again, I went back to almost my roots of the beginnings of Brown Girl Green, and I was like, no one's posting about green jobs either. I was like, you know, that's interesting. I'm like, no one's posting resources about how to get a job actually. And like, cause I would talk to all these youth activists and they're like, yeah, it's great. But like, I don't know what I'm gonna do when I graduate. And then I maybe have to give this up. And I'm like, that sucks. Like there should be more options. And so I remember I just made a content series.

Madeleine (21:12.518)
Hmm.

KRISTY (21:18.346)
I'm calling it green jobs and it blew up. And people were like, it was like some of my most engaged content for like months. And I was like, that's crazy. And it got to the point where I remember, it was one day, fall 2021. And someone was like, hey, I got hired through your Instagram post. I was like, what?

Madeleine (21:29.029)
Smile.

Madeleine (21:42.349)
Awwww.

KRISTY (21:42.594)
what do you mean? And they're like, yeah, like, I found that resource, I applied, and I actually got the job. And I was like, whoa. And then people were like, is this a nonprofit? Is this a company? Like, like, where can we like, post with you? And I was like, this was just an Instagram post. I didn't expect anything. But the community was just like, booming and just telling me like,

Madeleine (21:49.805)
well

Madeleine (21:58.142)
Hmm.

KRISTY (22:08.766)
We want this to be a big resource. So me and my co-founder, who's my childhood best friend, who helped me with the beginnings of Brown Girl Green, we then launched Green Jobs Board as an Instagram page, got thousands of followers, and then in the past year, companies posted with us and were like, I guess we're a company now. And so yeah, we've been a company for eight months, and it all started two years ago with an Instagram post. So with all that being said.

Madeleine (22:35.73)
Wow. Yeah.

KRISTY (22:37.75)
The whole summary for everyone listening is I didn't really know where it was all gonna go. But the fact of the matter is there was little Easter eggs along my journey that showed me that maybe I was meant to be this like social media, communications climate expert who's trying to like shift consciousness and build resources and connect the dots for people in a fast, rapid, meaningful way. And I guess that's what I'm doing out in the world. So.

Madeleine (23:04.376)
I'm sorry.

KRISTY (23:05.57)
That's my summary in a shorthand way.

Madeleine (23:09.715)
Yeah, it's such a great example of how, and that's why I love like all of what you said and all of what you delved into is so helpful for people listening because they might not be where you or I are yet and you can never know where you are going to go. You can't know what your path is going to look like and you know, you and I both have also similar experiences like in college.

I was like, I guess I'll pursue environmental science or environmental studies, but only because that's what I feel most strongly about, not necessarily having any clue as to what I would do like vocationally or what my job would be after college. Like, what does that actually look like? I don't know, but basically this idea of like, just being curious and not being entirely aware of

You just can't know where things are going to go and what it's... I mean, this is the existential path of life. When we're talking about climate work, we might as well be just talking about life in general because... Yes, yeah.

KRISTY (24:18.29)
what I'm saying. You know, that's such a good point. Like, I've been feeling that really deep as someone who keeps getting older as a person, as a human being. I'm like, this isn't even about like, a career or a job or a thing. It's like, this is the survival of our species and our ecosystems. And sometimes these little silly things like a job or

Madeleine (24:30.632)
Yes.

Madeleine (24:36.324)
Yes.

Yes.

KRISTY (24:45.054)
all these things, it just feels kind of so minuscule in the grand scheme of, you know, all the things that are demanding of us as people at this point in time in society. It can feel like a lot where you're like, let me just try to be a 20 something, but then the world is like collapsing. So.

Madeleine (24:59.677)
Mm-hmm.

Madeleine (25:06.73)
Yes. Yeah, yes, exactly. And I think that's another it is hard. And it's hard when you're also in our position and you have the ability to potentially access a way to like fight for climate justice that is also satisfying to you that also brings you joy and that you actually enjoy doing because that is

KRISTY (25:10.126)
hard.

Madeleine (25:35.526)
the most sustainable job is the one that you can do for a long time. And so that's the other thing about this is that, you know, when we talk about like climate powers, it's, yes, it is existential because we're asking ourselves, you know, what, like basically, what am I capable of? What do I love doing? But it's also about like, yeah, like,

KRISTY (25:40.938)
That's facts. That's true.

Madeleine (26:03.766)
the enjoyment of your job being something that is a lifelong thing, right? Like that's, I think the other thing here is that, is that climate work is a lifetime of work. It is not ever going to end. It's not like you fight the climate crisis. And in 40 years, we made it, you know, down to, you know, we, you know, all of like,

our goals and everything are gonna keep shifting and baselines are gonna keep shifting. So I think the idea of like thinking about a path, fighting for climate justice is also about thinking about your path as like a life, your life, right? Like I don't know how long I'm gonna be doing this podcast, I hope a really long time, cause it brings me a lot of joy and it's really fun and cool. And it's like being well-received and it's helping people and that's great, but also

You know, when I'm 60, I might do some, you know, when I'm in one year, I might like it's a, it's a complex patchwork of things. And so also the idea of like green jobs, you don't have to be like, okay, this is my green job. This is it. I'm going to stick around in this exact job or field, you know, my whole life, which is a beautiful thing.

KRISTY (27:08.291)
Yeah.

KRISTY (27:18.258)
No.

Yeah, I would say that like with where Green Jobs Board is going now, like it started off as just like a resource to list things, but now you know what we want to build is something so much bigger where it's like people like we're hoping we can build a platform that can be that support system for people no matter like where they're at in their career journey and like that's my vision for it is like again like I just know how difficult it's been for me like you know.

Of course, it's been a couple of years since I graduated, but like, I'm still in like my post grad era and like, you know, the pandemic happened in my post grad era and like, thank God, thank God I was in school and all that happened. Shout out to all of you who were, who were in school or still in school, coping with that. Oh my God. Anyways, but even post grad, like it was a, it was challenging and, you know, I transitioned from being like a quote unquote student to entry level worker to now.

Madeleine (28:00.67)
Yeah.

Madeleine (28:05.807)
Yeah.

KRISTY (28:15.862)
I'm a full on employer, you know what I mean, in the span of a couple of years. And it's interesting because I'm like, no one gave me resources. Like I had to find resources to do that, right? And I'm like, but like, if we want to get so many more people to work in climate, like there has to be more resources, spaces for people to connect and for people to feel supported in that if we want them to stay in it for a lifetime. And yeah, I'm just.

Madeleine (28:18.254)
Yeah.

Madeleine (28:26.623)
Yes.

Madeleine (28:42.334)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

KRISTY (28:45.318)
hoping that Green Jobs Work can be a really amazing platform and resource for people as we continue to develop that.

Madeleine (28:50.49)
Yeah. Well, when you guys, or well, when you announced on your Instagram that you were launching, I myself remember being so struck by that. I was like, oh my God, duh. Like, thank God this woman is doing this because I immediately went on and I immediately looked at jobs and I was just so like.

genuinely excited about it. Like, and I remember that, and I've actually, you know, just from a distance, seen it grow. And I remember when you announced that it's like a thing now and it's a company, I was like, wow, you know, how cool that just like you starting your podcast to find mentors or starting, you know, your clubs and things in school, like, you're just seeing.

KRISTY (29:30.184)
Hahaha

Madeleine (29:46.39)
where the need is and you're responding to that. And that is so beautiful. I think it takes a level of, I think people think that it takes a level of courage or initiative or entrepreneurship and it absolutely does. But you, what I'm getting from what you're saying is just that like,

You're just doing it without extreme attachment to what it would even turn into. That is so cool.

KRISTY (30:12.798)
Yeah.

KRISTY (30:19.07)
No, that's pretty accurate. Like I said, it was very organic. It was very just like noticing and just being like, whoa, like, yeah, I mean, I guess that's right. And like, you know, just really being really receptive to listening in on other people, honestly, and then trusting myself and trusting in what I could offer based on what I was hearing and experiencing. And I think...

Madeleine (30:21.296)
I'm gonna go.

Madeleine (30:39.826)
Hmm.

KRISTY (30:47.67)
That's been a really key part of my journey. Has been a lot, like people are like, how'd you do this? Like, did you study a thing? Did you read a book? I'm like, no, I just, I trusted myself. I trusted other people. I was vulnerable. I leaned in to ask the right questions at the right time and found myself in the right places at the right time. And, but at the same time, I worked really hard to position myself.

That way, whenever those quote unquote, maybe lucky coincidences or things happen, I was ready to go. I didn't freeze up because there was moments. There was actually moments early in my journey where people were presenting me really amazing opportunities. But I froze up because I had imposter syndrome. I didn't believe I was worthy of it and I self sabotaged it. Luckily, a lot of those relationships were salvaged later on. But like.

Madeleine (31:24.286)
Hmm.

KRISTY (31:45.986)
There was people that believed in me when I didn't have half of what I have going on right now. And I remember being like, why me? And I remember just being so stuck in my fear state. I was so stuck in this space of like, I'm not good enough. I'm not worthy enough. And so I fumbled, I fumbled the bag as they say. And that was part of my process though. I've had to take.

Madeleine (31:51.751)
Wow.

Madeleine (32:06.192)
I'm gonna go.

Madeleine (32:10.695)
Yeah.

KRISTY (32:11.27)
recognition and get closure with my own failures or just the ways where I didn't take action, where I wasn't doing. And I want anyone who listens to this, you take away anything, like they say, do it scared, do it with your voice trembling, do it with your body shaking and feeling on the verge of a mental breakdown and tears, but just do it anyways. And I think

you will see it gets less scary than you thought. It actually exceeds your wildest expectations of what you were possibly expecting out of yourself. And you actually discover that there's so much more once you get past that barrier. And then you're like, oh, instead of saying, oh my gosh, what if, you say, what's next instead.

Madeleine (33:02.97)
Wow, Christy, that was very beautiful. That was very special. And so true, just so true. Thank you. I think that's so helpful for people to hear and I just very much agree. I wanna like talk about green jobs too. I wanna get into this because this, what we're talking about is

so reflective of the idea of like privilege in climate jobs and in the climate space. And actually you gave a great interview with Atmos and it's called Eco Influencer Brown Girl Green on Transparency and Greenwashing. And you say...

KRISTY (33:40.045)
Yeah.

Madeleine (33:55.186)
Quote, I don't want to work for an environmental nonprofit because when I first started Brown Girl Green, I was working at one, I was very exploited in that job. I was not treated well and I ended up leaving it. That was the last nine to five job I had, end quote. So talking about jobs that are not inclusive and that don't reflect the world that we want to see and what Green Jobs Board is actually doing.

KRISTY (34:11.991)
Yeah.

KRISTY (34:17.879)
Yeah.

Madeleine (34:25.418)
Um, you know, so I think just like, yeah, kind of the idea of like, how do we, how do we tackle this, you know, or how do we think about this?

KRISTY (34:25.678)
Yeah.

Yeah.

KRISTY (34:36.926)
Yeah, it's, yeah, it's really complex. And I'm at the very beginning of the journey. And I do not have all of the answers, let alone maybe even one answer to it yet. But I'm at the beginning of exploring it. And it's been really interesting. What we're seeing and what I was experimenting with at the beginning of green jobs board when we started putting out positions at least.

was obviously people were finding an amazing resource where they were finding opportunities. But then there was a few opportunities that we shared on our newsletter and maybe even IG stories here and there. And there was actually some young people of color who messaged us because they felt safe enough to tell us. They were like, hey, just letting you know that my manager there was actually a jerk. Or...

Madeleine (35:26.866)
Mm.

Madeleine (35:33.488)
Oh wow.

KRISTY (35:35.318)
or that place actually tried to do some union busting, or that place actually doesn't pay their workers well for other positions. And we just saw some people starting to confess to us. It almost felt like a confessional, someone who grew up Catholic, of course I didn't grow up.

Madeleine (35:56.41)
Right.

KRISTY (35:58.814)
Super Catholic, but at least I know confession and all these things. I felt like we were like this like interesting like eco confession where people were like, hey. And it was even like that with Brown Girl Green, like there's certain organizations or even like big environmentalists or thought leaders in this space, leaders in the movement that have caused harm to some other people. And again, like there'd be people that would like message me almost as like a confidant to tell me about that.

Madeleine (36:05.931)
Interesting.

KRISTY (36:27.822)
because they needed a space to vent about it. And it was interesting because that's got translated over to Green Jobs Board where then people were doing that too for us, where they're like, hey, just letting you know, we're not, you just need to be aware of that, right? And then there was like certain jobs where we've posted it and maybe like, yeah, like this certain organization has paid people X amount for a long time for a fellowship or something like that. It's usually been with like these more shorter term.

kind of positions and people are like, this is outrageous, blah, blah. But it's interesting to me because it's like, well, this is what they would have had on their website anyways, but they're posting it with us. And it's interesting because we're creating this interesting middle ground where now people are being able to comment and tell those employers, we don't really like that, or we don't really like what you're doing.

Madeleine (37:07.974)
Yes.

Madeleine (37:18.606)
I hate.

KRISTY (37:21.118)
And I found that really interesting because it's creating this new space of like almost like safety and transparency for people to vocalize how they feel and what they envision is and is not a good green job because everyone has their own definition of that. And there's not really that many clear standards. Of course, there's some certifications that indicate, you know, that you're doing

Madeleine (37:38.333)
Right.

KRISTY (37:46.43)
some good things in the world, but again, that doesn't necessarily mean just because you're a sustainable company and very environmentally conscious that you treat your workers well. How do I know this? Because I went through that and worked for some, worked for people that were committed to good things in the world, but treated me terribly. You know what I mean? So just because you're a mission-driven organization does not mean you don't know how to be culturally cognizant. And I think...

Madeleine (37:55.023)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Man.

KRISTY (38:13.622)
That's where we need to start the conversation. And yeah, and that's one part of the issue, right? One part of the issue is the fact that a lot of climate organizations are predominantly white led, maybe ageist, maybe have a lot of these different layers around power dynamics within their organization. That's its own challenge.

Then we have this whole other challenge when it comes to climate jobs and just making them like sexy to people, you know, in general, because I talk to my friends or people that aren't in this space at all. And they're like, when I think environmental job, that means I'm taking a pay cut. That means I'm probably going to sacrifice something. And that's also really interesting to me, because that's also a storytelling barrier, right? Where people are not realizing that the market is shifting towards green jobs.

Madeleine (38:48.588)
Yes, yes.

Madeleine (39:04.606)
Totally.

KRISTY (39:09.518)
Climate jobs are gonna become some of the highest paying jobs eventually, but again, require storytelling. A lot of the reports are showing us that. Is the news telling us that? Or is our educational institutions telling us that? Not really. You know what I mean? People have to like almost seek it out to find those things out, or they have to know someone who knows someone to get a foot in the door if they don't have a quote unquote climate background. And that's gonna leave so many people out, like just from that standpoint, right?

Madeleine (39:18.852)
Mmm.

Madeleine (39:23.026)
Right.

Madeleine (39:32.346)
Mmm.

KRISTY (39:38.59)
And so that's another issue where it's like, we got to talk about like building more language around why is getting a climate job have co-benefits of being a good paying job, that there is going to be long-term career stability because not everyone wants to be like a straight-up activist. Maybe they want other options, you know what I mean? And so it's like, I think that's important to include in the conversation as well.

Madeleine (40:00.602)
Right. Yeah.

KRISTY (40:06.934)
because people gotta pay their bills and gotta take care of their families. And that's just part of it, right? And so it's like, I'm interested in that. And I'd say the last piece that we're really interested in is we don't need to make a whole new climate job sector. There's also opportunities where people are in their own workplaces to think about, what actually are the sustainability practices in my workplace? Are they satisfactory?

who are the decision makers at my workplace that actually decide what happens with our waste or where we source our food or the speakers we bring in or the topics that we cover at lunch and learns, all these things, right? And some companies have gotten a lot better at having like a sustainability team, but the issue we keep hearing is that those people are kind of sectioned out off or siloed off within a bigger organization.

How do we create more of an integration of sustainability at the core and the DNA of every business? And how do we make it a standard to know that like, if you want your business to be long standing in the longterm, you have to be thinking about these things. Even if your main bottom line is your profitability, you're not gonna be profitable on a burning planet. And so I think it's important that even jobs that were not viewed as quote unquote climate jobs,

there's a question on organizational identity, value, and principles of how you're organizing as a business moving forward to incorporate this. And I always like to reference biomimicry and the Biomimicry Institute, shout out to them. They've been doing this for a long time. They're very OG on this principle of looking to nature to,

Madeleine (41:53.554)
Hmm.

KRISTY (42:01.998)
transform and integrate businesses in a way that's in harmony with the planet. And I would say Green Jobs Board really believes in that mission as well, where it's like what if we can just transform the organizational DNA of a place from the inside as well. In addition to obviously building a whole new sector of climate jobs, in addition to addressing existing climate jobs and a lot of their internal structures, gaps and problems and inequalities.

a very multi-pronged issue that needs a lot more definitions, a lot more storytelling, a lot more standards, regulation and transparency. And a lot of us that are working in that space, it's very new and we're trying to figure it out. But yeah.

Madeleine (42:43.842)
Mm hmm. Yeah. But yeah, like, casually just shifting the entire. Yes. And and it's like, it's so well put. And I think, you know, I'm also thinking about like, yeah, what is a green job? Because so much can, like, yes, we need obviously a lot of technical like, actually, a lot of the jobs that are needed are like, you know,

KRISTY (42:49.654)
But that's the layout, that's the rundown.

KRISTY (43:01.408)
Yeah.

Madeleine (43:13.138)
technicians and engineers and folks who are actually like infrastructurally, you know, building or even just as you're saying, like doing the really unsexy but important work of like managing projects. And, you know, I think you and I are in between of like the humanizing of all of this and the storytelling of all of this and not a lot of those positions. It's a creative, like it's a...

KRISTY (43:33.069)
Yes.

Madeleine (43:40.858)
we are on our own paths, right? Like we're good examples, right? Like there's no green jobs board listing for Christy Drutman or Madeline Nicholas, right? And I think that's a beautiful thing. I think that it's like totally possible. And so, you know, encouraging companies too, like especially to companies that are dealing with.

KRISTY (43:43.399)
Yeah, no, that's a whole other thing.

Madeleine (44:07.226)
you know, more technical solutions or not as sexy things to have positions that are more creatively, okay, how do we humanize and ground this for the real world? Because otherwise it doesn't matter at all. And so there's that, that's like that I'm thinking about. And then there's the idea that, as you're saying, there's so many companies that are actually exemplifying like

the culture that is so important for a regenerative, restful, and inclusive, and equitable company that are not climate-related at all, that we can learn from. And so the idea of like, oh, and then the other idea being that climate justice is social justice. And so social justice, you could be educating young girls, and that's a climate job. So like,

Always thinking about like what is a green job and I wonder how you guys Do that like how do you vet on green jobs board? What does that process look like?

KRISTY (45:02.627)
Yeah.

KRISTY (45:10.027)
Yeah.

Yeah, so I mean, we are such a small team. So I always tell people that like our vetting process has mostly been people letting us know and flagging positions. So like we really rely heavily on the community and it's probably going to be what we do for quite some time until we have more resources for a proper vetting system. But it's mostly just like if people flag things to us, we look into it and then we like contact the company and organization. And if we like feel like

they're really not willing to budge or like have a good response and like, we're not willing to like feature them again. Um, and then if things come in, like there have been some fossil fuel companies that try to post with us. I was like, absolutely not. They tried, they tried, but they didn't know who they were messing with. They didn't know who they were messing with. So, um, that's been it though. Like everyone else has been chill, but maybe if we posted something and someone had something to say or like,

Madeleine (45:48.894)
Mm.

Madeleine (45:58.7)
They said they did not know.

Madeleine (46:04.177)
I really didn't know.

KRISTY (46:11.938)
had a flag, then we rely on that to take in feedback. But yeah, in terms of what we decide as a green job, I think what we're defining it as, people are seeing our vision and our mission of wanting to empower job seekers with the tools and the resources they need to build a career to address the climate crisis. And so if you're a company or organization that is doing work in some capacity to try to do good in the world.

to try to address that, whatever angle that is, we keep it broad, like you can be on the board, you know? Some people are like, oh, what if we're just social impact? I'm like, that is also, you know what I mean? It's like, so I think like us existing as a platform is also expanding that definition because some people are like, oh, how is that a green job? I'm like, well, it is because X, Y, and Z reason. And then they're like, oh, I never thought of it that way. And then we're like creating new conversations. So that's how I'm viewing it.

Madeleine (46:47.026)
Yeah.

Madeleine (46:53.224)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

Madeleine (46:58.974)
Right.

Madeleine (47:04.477)
Yes.

Madeleine (47:10.098)
Mm, yeah, that's beautiful. I wanna, in that vein of creating new conversations, it seems like Green Jobs Board and your whole community and your social presence, it's such a community. Like it's such a great community. I, can we talk about speed dating? Because, and can I please get involved with this? Because.

KRISTY (47:26.764)
Yeah.

KRISTY (47:32.432)
Oh my gosh.

Um, yeah, definitely loving climate change.

Madeleine (47:41.886)
Oh my God, tell everybody about this. It's brilliant.

KRISTY (47:44.746)
So yeah, when I'm not making content on the internet and not getting people jobs in climate, I'm a matchmaker for getting people relationships and love while saving the planet. And that's through my series. That's through my series called Love and Climate, which I'm happy to give a little bit of background on. So yeah, it was, where did this emerge?

Madeleine (47:50.014)
Thanks for watching!

Madeleine (47:53.9)
Hehehehe

Madeleine (47:59.046)
Wow, it's too many times.

Madeleine (48:09.242)
Yes, please do.

KRISTY (48:15.07)
Poland, colds, cuddle season, cuffing season, you know, cop season, all in one. But I remember I was sitting at the UN climate talks and it was so boring and I just was sitting there and just very depressed because I was like, these people don't listen to young people and you know, United Nations, you're in like these very gray rooms, gray walls, all these things. And I was like, what the f***?

Madeleine (48:16.126)
Wow. Cold.

KRISTY (48:43.886)
people went on a date? What if people just went on a date in the climate talks? And back then it was very low budget production, none of that is out on the internet, but I literally remember I was at a vodka bar in Poland with a bunch of like young people from around the world who were like diplomats and I came up with some random questions like with climate pickup lines.

Madeleine (49:05.598)
well.

KRISTY (49:10.434)
And I asked them, I was like, could you go on a date and let me film it? Again, I didn't know what I was doing, so like it came out horrible quality. But I was like, but then they ended up hitting it off and they liked each other and I was like, ooh, this is interesting. But then it kind of died out. And then it was just like an idea. And then COP26 came around in Glasgow, Scotland two years ago. I was like, I am reviving this series. I guess I was like, yeah, three years later at that point.

Madeleine (49:14.782)
Hehehehe

Madeleine (49:23.518)
Hahaha

KRISTY (49:39.818)
And I was like, I'm reviving this series. And so basically I got a cardboard box. I got some paper with markers and I set up a table in cop 26 and I went around literally the blue zone and cop 26 and literally asked diplomats asked youth activists, and I said, do you want, can you go on a date and I'm going to film it? And yeah, basically I had a few people. Some people even contributed to the actual articles.

Madeleine (49:54.066)
Hehehehe

KRISTY (50:08.594)
in cop, went on a speed date. And it was just amazing because they were just asking each other these silly questions. People were walking around and were like, what is this? And yeah, I remember like, it was just such a cast of characters and that was really fun. So then, yeah, then last year, I don't know, life happened. I just got busy. And then this year, I have more of a team and I decided I'm gonna make Love and Climate an even bigger,

Concepts. So again, it follows these lines similar to other things in my life where I just do things See if it sticks and then if it does let's keep going with it. And so yeah, basically revived loving climate this past summer Where I just hosted my first speed date in Central Park A bunch of people came and went on some speed dates. We even had a pair who has now gone on a follow-up date

Madeleine (50:47.294)
Wow.

Madeleine (51:05.42)
Oh, that's so cute. I thought you were going to say they like got engaged or something, but they went on another date. It's so cute. So successful.

KRISTY (51:06.282)
since then and basically... Oh my gosh!

KRISTY (51:13.526)
But it was successful in that way. And basically, the goal of it was like, why are we not bringing climate to the dating world? Why are we not bringing it to our conversations we're having at the bar or at the dinner table with our family members, right? And so the goal of it is like, let me take this concept that we're all feeling chronically lonely on these online dating apps or whatever.

and just be like, let's meet each other and actually talk about what we care about. I think there's always this like weird stigma where it's like, oh, I don't wanna bring my work into a relationship. I'm like, why are you dating that person then? You wanna date someone that doesn't match your values? You wanna date someone who like doesn't care about what you care about? Like, I think that's so funny to me. And I used to be one of those people where I was like, oh my gosh, like I'm so passionate about environmental stuff, but.

Madeleine (51:55.646)
seriously.

KRISTY (52:06.322)
I don't want to come off too strong to these people I'm dating. I forget that. You want to do this for life. You want to work and try to save the planet. Like you got to have a boo that cares about that too. So yeah.

Madeleine (52:18.418)
You have to. Oh, that's so brilliant. And God, like that, honestly, it's also like, OK, this is a thought that I had recently. And it's that climate work is inherently the sexiest thing ever because at the level of like the most kind of scientific level, like evolutionarily,

KRISTY (52:38.786)
Seriously.

Madeleine (52:47.81)
In climate, we are trying to prolong the species. And in trying to prolong the species, that is technically the sexiest thing you can do, right? Because sex is about prolonging the species. And we're just trying to survive. And how is it not considered the sexiest thing ever when someone is actively trying to save everybody?

KRISTY (52:51.403)
Yes.

KRISTY (53:03.458)
That is so funny.

Madeleine (53:16.37)
from a catastrophe. So this is brilliant. I'm on board and I hope that this expands to as far as it needs to, and then it becomes a reality television show hosted by you. It really has to be. It has to be, make sure the vetting process is strong because I have encountered more than one individual who. Oh.

KRISTY (53:30.094)
That's a goal. I'm like, we're going to bring this. It's the next thing.

Madeleine (53:43.282)
is like a fake climate person and I had to learn the hard way. So it's bad. It can be a little shady. We got to make sure, you know.

KRISTY (53:53.034)
We, someone commented on my recent post cause we're hosting another one in Brooklyn very soon. And someone was like, you know, but like how do you spot people? And I said, you know, unfortunately we are putting that you'll most likely be able to tell someone it's not a climate denier. We cannot guarantee that this person won't be emotionally avoidant mess. I'm sorry. Like.

Madeleine (53:58.226)
Mm.

KRISTY (54:18.582)
Disclaimer, we don't know the other aspects of this person's personality, but they care about the planet. The rest, you all gotta sort out. That's not on us, you know what I mean? So anyways, compatibility not included. Climate action included, but not compatibility. You gotta figure that out, so yeah.

Madeleine (54:18.785)
Oh god.

Madeleine (54:27.58)
Oh, man. Wow. Well, I'm so excited about this and I'm very on board. And anyway, okay. Yeah, I feel like this is well, we could talk forever, but it might be a nice place to.

kind of wrap up slowly. I feel like it'd be great for you to just give the listener who maybe people are already in a green job, maybe people want to transition, maybe people are in a job that is not green and want to be in a green job. And I guess just kind of advice for people who are looking to kind of make that switch or.

you know, be able to like switch over their skills to be more sustainable would be probably really helpful for folks.

KRISTY (55:28.41)
Yeah, I would say that like, if you have some staple skills around data analysis, admin work, management, research, sales, all of those things are easily transferable to any organization, especially if you have marketing skills. All of that, I feel like no matter what organization or company you work with, people are looking for that right now. So I hope that that's like...

a beam of hope if you already have that skill set, that's like easily transferable. I would say for more technical roles, where maybe like, you know, it's more insular to field research and things like that. It might be a matter of you having to get separate certifications, doing online courses, trying to figure out how you can get supplemental education to re-skill that gap if you don't have that background. But again, I wouldn't say all things are lost with that. I would just look into.

how flexible they are. I know another big feedback people are always saying is like they expect five to ten years when like I only have two years all these things. You know that's a gap on the employer side right and people that might need to be more trained on the employer side of things to be a bit more flexible about what talent pools are out there right. But I would say if you're in that position again like if you have a really strong skill set like I've applied for positions where like

Madeleine (56:31.833)
Hmm.

Madeleine (56:42.535)
Yeah.

KRISTY (56:51.286)
they wanted five years, but like, because I had the experience, even in university, even though it wasn't like, quote unquote, formal work experience, those experiences still count. So I would say that if you have any experiences, even if it was before you entered the quote unquote, formal workforce, that still counts as experience from a leadership and professional development perspective, and especially like, people always say like, oh, like, should I volunteer? I said, yeah, like, volunteer for...

Madeleine (57:07.395)
Right.

KRISTY (57:19.23)
environmental nonprofits and organizations and volunteer your time because sometimes companies and organizations looking for like a climate or environmental background, if they see you at least did some work or some experience connecting with an organization in the field and in the space, it makes you just like more of a standout candidate. So I'd say doing like supplemental activities and courses like that will just like strengthen your skills. And then I would say like,

always read job descriptions and then see like, they'll tell you qualifications and you'll see like, do you have the skill set or not? But I would say being able to translate or transfer, make it transferable. Again, if you take those other courses, if you volunteer your time, other places, even joining nonprofit boards and volunteering your time, all of that is relevant experience that shows that you're understanding the industry, understanding the language. So even if you might not have been in that industry before.

Madeleine (58:06.598)
Right.

KRISTY (58:16.778)
like people would probably be more confident that you could figure it out along the way. So yeah.

Madeleine (58:20.894)
Mm-hmm. Yep. That's great advice. For anybody who is not on GreenJaws Word yet, check it out and follow Christy. We'll give all of that information in the description of the episode. Thank you so much, Christy. This has been such a wonderful conversation.

KRISTY (58:39.566)
Thank you so much for having me and talking about all the things and letting me embrace my superpowers.

Madeleine (58:47.046)
Oh, I love that. Oh, yeah. Thank you for saying them so eloquently. I'm going to stop the recording. But this has been fantastic.

KRISTY (58:52.942)
Hehehe