“I Walked In and Started Crying” My First Orthodox Liturgy: Why Ancient Christianity Hit Harder

“I walked in and started to cry.” What happens when an Orthodox Divine Liturgy feels more real than anything you’ve known?

One visit to an Orthodox Divine Liturgy can expose a hunger you did not know you had. Hannah describes walking into the church, catching the smell of incense, hearing the choir, seeing the priest with the censer, and suddenly fighting tears. It is not just emotion for its own sake. Something feels ancient, steady, and real enough to set off a relentless chain of questions about the Eastern Orthodox Church, worship, and what it means to actually be formed by faith.

Always reforming sounds noble until you ask: reform into what? We talk Reformation fatigue, denominational confusion, and why Orthodoxy feels like “home” for many.

Jeremy Jeremiah and Mario Andrew talk with Hannah and Brian about what it feels like to walk into an Orthodox church for the first time and realize something deeper is happening than a new “style” of worship. We follow their move from Protestant assumptions to Orthodox practices that feel like home, and we ask what happens when the Church is meant to hold on to us.

• Hannah’s first Divine Liturgy experience, from incense to tears to nonstop questions
• Curiosity turning into daily research, conversations, and a fast moving sense of conviction
• Brian’s slower pace, his prayer for truth, and the desire to avoid false teaching
• First Holy Week and Pascha, including the beauty and the reality of the marathon
• Intentional prayer, written prayers, veiling, icons, saints, and learning to die to self
• Denominations, ongoing reform, and why Protestant apologetics can feel like mental gymnastics

We talk through what happens after that first encounter: the research spiral, the awkward first-timer moments, and the different speeds two people can move at while still walking the same direction. Hannah dives in headfirst, hunting for the “why” behind icons, long services, and Holy Tradition. Brian shares a more cautious posture shaped by prayer, asking God to “lead me in all truth,” and naming the fear many seekers feel about being misled by bad information or falling into false doctrine.

Holy Week and Pascha become a turning point, not because everything gets easier, but because the Church’s rhythm starts to make sense. We explore the intentionality behind Orthodox practices like written prayers, a prayer rule, fasting, confession, reverence for icons, and learning to “die to self” so prayer becomes real instead of rushed. Along the way, we wrestle with Reformation after Reformation, denominational confusion, and why defending every disagreement can feel like mental gymnastics.

If you’re exploring converting from Protestant to Orthodox, or you’re simply trying to understand why Orthodoxy emphasizes embodied worship, mystery, and continuity, this conversation gives you language for the pull you may already feel. Subscribe, share this with a friend, and leave a review to help more people find Cloud of Witnesses.

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Transcript

Reform Fatigue And Seeking Truth

SPEAKER_06 0:00

It's like what uh what what are we gonna get down to eventually? You know, because there's Catholics killing Protestants, there's Protestants killing Catholics, you know what I mean? And it's like, how far are we gonna go if we're gonna keep performing to where it's like, do we even believe the faith anymore?

SPEAKER_02 0:15

Well, why is it like this? Or why do you think like that? And he's over here still like, well, I don't really fully know if we're converting. That's the doubter idea.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, we have the answers, we're good.

SPEAKER_05 0:30

Like, yeah, so I think what you're saying is exactly right. That's why orthodoxy is so important, right? That's it's not about, oh, you guys are more traditional people, so you go to Orthodox church.

SPEAKER_03 0:42

Right.

SPEAKER_05 0:42

It's not about that. This is how God intends his people to worship him.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Amen.

SPEAKER_05 0:49

And and it's how God helps hold on to us as and to help us hold on to him.

Welcome And How To Support

SPEAKER_05 0:54

Yeah. Hi, welcome to Cloud of Witnesses. Jeremy Jeremiah here. We're really excited about this episode. This episode is created with you in mind. Please, if you're enjoying this content, give this video a like, hit that subscribe button, and most importantly, if you can, ring that bell. It does help others find this content as well. Cloud of Witnesses is all about making Christian content that it you know is hopefully edifying to you and it's building up the kingdom of God. Please stick around to the end if you can. Thank you so much for being here. Enjoy.

Hannah’s First Divine Liturgy

SPEAKER_05 1:26

Wow. So, okay. So, what was it like, Hannah? You guys left that day. That was your first Orthodox service. Where was your head at? What were you thinking? Yeah, what'd you what'd you think when you walked in?

SPEAKER_02 1:37

Okay, when I first walked in, I still can't even describe the feeling inwards. I felt stunned in a good way, an amazing way, when I walked in there. I was like, wow, this is so different. I smell this beautiful smell that I've never smelled in a church before. And I'm like, smell good in here. Okay, what are they doing? What they got? So walking and um, I think her name is Lori. Please give me a few. Yes, Lori.

SPEAKER_05 2:08

Lori wrote her. I love her so much. She's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

She's so great at what she does. And she brought us right to the front. And I was very, I was still in this emotion of just like what is going on there.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

Whoa, what is this?

SPEAKER_05 2:27

Because isn't it? We are so blessed. It is such a beautiful church. Thanks be to God.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 2:33

Such a beautiful church. And you noticed the incense. You could you sense the incense and you could smell that beautiful scent. Yeah. Beautiful. Go on, sorry.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

Yeah, no, you're good. And I was hearing the choir, and I saw um, I think it was Father John that I first saw in Father Nathan and whatnot with the incense burner. And I was just, I started to cry because he wanted to. I looked over and I was like, He always knows when I'm about to cry because he gives me that look. He's like, because he knows that I'm about to cry. And I'm like, oh my goodness, Brian. Um that's awesome. But whenever I felt when I you mean you can feel the Holy Spirit anywhere, but in that particular moment, it kind of took me back to when I was a kid and I felt the Holy Spirit in such a tangible way. Wow. It made me just go on this hamster wheel of asking questions because it was very hard standing. Well, I well, standing and sitting because I have a little bit of some back issues, but just being there for two hours, you know, I was really thinking about a lot. I was thinking like, okay, well, why do they worship this long? There has to be a reason. Why do they do this or why do they do that? It's just a kid mentality, just asking all these different kinds of questions, coming from a genuine um way, of course. Not like, okay, well, this is you know too long or this is too money pictures, very distracting. Where are the drums? Where's the music? Where's the sermon? Yeah, but I mean, there was a point where I was thinking to my head, I was asking him, and in my head, I was like, Where is the sermon? Like, is there gonna be a sermon? It's like, okay, well, this is a whole worship. I'm like, okay, this is different, like, this is amazing. I've never experienced this before.

The Research Spiral And Conversion Pace

SPEAKER_02 4:23

So I just went on this whole rabbit trail of asking questions of like, okay, what is orthodoxy? What do they believe? Why is it like this? Why do they do this? Where do they get the traditions from? Just constantly picking and looking and searching. It it just it's nothing but the Holy Spirit. It was just this outpouring. The way I describe it is this outpouring of just this urgency. It probably also is a little bit of my anxiety, but it was this urgency of wanting to know and having write.

SPEAKER_06 4:57

Yeah, I was the same way as well. We were both doing the same exact thing.

SPEAKER_02 5:01

And it's funny because this is kind of fast-forwarding a little bit. So we were able to attend the Father Josiah Turnham's uh conference. Conference.

SPEAKER_06 5:11

Oh, the marriage?

SPEAKER_05 5:12

Which conference?

SPEAKER_06 5:13

The uh what's it called? The one with the ethics. Okay, I think ethics or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 5:19

Yes, it was amazing. I better Josiah, we got to meet him. Wow, amazing, amazing man. Um but when we met him, the first thing that Brian was saying, so we're still Protestants. And I looked at him, I was like, no, we're not. And I was like, no, we're not. Because at that time, since what is it? February, well, it was February, and now we're in April. During that time before the conference was in March, that's the momentum that I was going at. I was constantly, every single day, looking at videos, researching, asking people questions, asking his friend James questions, just picking at people's brains. And it's crazy because it was like everything was coming so perfectly. It just the quote that I cannot get out of my head, and I think it's by Father Sephrim Rose, where he says that when I found orthodoxy, I found home. I think it was him that said that. I hope I hope it was him that said that. I hope it was him that said that because it's just unbelievable how everything was meshing together and everything was coming together so quickly in my head that now it feels like I'm above my husband in a way of like, well, why is it like this? Or why do you think like that? And he's over here still like, Well, I don't really fully know if we're converted. That's the doubter again. I don't know if we're fully there yet.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, we have the answers, we're good.

SPEAKER_02 6:53

Like, yeah, what are you tripping about?

SPEAKER_06 6:56

So plus men, and we're all just resort to like the logical thinking. Yeah, and I was just sorting out the pieces essentially.

SPEAKER_05 7:02

Yep. Yeah.

Brian’s Prayer And Caution About Error

SPEAKER_05 7:03

So this is such a beautiful, beautiful story. What was it like, Brian? I'm imagining there had to be part of you that was maybe really happy and thrilled that your wife, who you weren't sure how she was gonna, she could have been like stepped out of that Orthodox church and said, never again, yeah, right? Forget it. Yeah. But instead, it it it sparked this curiosity that's it clearly continues to even this moment. What was that like for you?

SPEAKER_06 7:34

Um, well, honestly, when I realized that how devout and ready she was to actually do that, and um honestly it praised God for it. I was like, I'm glad I don't have to like you know, fighting tooth and nail, possibly, like to be able to help somebody understand. And so that was a huge blessing in itself. And when I first decided to do the be an Orthodox Christian for like 30 days, I actually continued to keep praying, and I actually still continue to keep praying. This was um Father, just could please leave me in the all truth. Like just leave me to all truth. I I still continue to pray that because I don't want to be led down the wrong path, and I trust that he won't leave me down the wrong path, you know, and I don't want to fall into heresy, I don't want to fall on the false doctrines, I don't want to fall into those things. And to be honest with you, it's just a lot, like it's a lot of things to just to be able to research, you know, and look at. Yeah. And um really I just I glorified God in that. I was like, I'm I'm really glad because just from like what I said before, where I was looking online, like I follow like the Eastern Orthodox Reddit, and like I've seen people on there that are like my my wife's not orthodox or she's not being orthodox, my husband is being too pushy about being orthodox, and I'm like, well, I'm really praise God, like we don't have to go through that. Yeah, so that's that's I was really thankful that she was willing to jump like head first into it. So probably actually past me. Like we both went head first, but like pencil diving, she was like already at like the 10 foot mark. I was probably like I was probably at like the five foot mark. Yeah, she was pulling you the internet.

SPEAKER_05 9:10

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Come on, let's go. Yeah, yeah. Wow, that's that's amazing, you guys.

Holy Week And First Pascha

SPEAKER_05 9:16

Yeah. So okay. So you guys experienced Holy Week, um, which is what was it like? What was Holy Week like?

SPEAKER_06 9:25

Wow, yeah, that was uh that was really wonderful. Um, especially that was our first Posca. So um never experienced that before. And I was like, wow, this is this is beautiful. Um, because when it started like 11. I think it was 11. We started at 10. Was it 10? It was 10 when it started, yeah. Yeah, because uh we realized I think we showed up late. Oh and um because I think we we were told it was 11. Okay, and um so we showed up late when everybody was like walking outside with the candles.

SPEAKER_02 9:49

Yeah, but yeah, it was like right when everybody was walking outside. Yeah, and what's funny is that we were also told to wear white. So I came wearing all black with pink under, and I saw everybody in white, and I was like, I didn't know either. I'm done.

SPEAKER_05 10:06

It's it's growing paints, right? It's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You'll look back on it and laugh, and yeah, yeah, forget. Yeah, yeah. Wasn't that beautiful though? It was inside with the candles, so beautiful or community proclaiming the resurrection of Christ.

SPEAKER_02 10:19

I wish I could go back in that moment and just like replay it.

SPEAKER_05 10:22

Yeah, guess what? You will be able to. Yeah, yeah. That's what's so simple about.

SPEAKER_06 10:27

I'll be honest, I was struggling. So I know that many people were probably already used to it. I was like looking around, I'm like, damn, like I'm surprised now that nobody's yawning, but I kept yawning and I was like, it's yeah, it's you it's tough.

SPEAKER_05 10:40

A lot of people who knew what they were in for, yeah, like me, yeah, took a nap that day. That's you you learn to you know find your way to get through. Yeah, because it is, yeah, it's it is a uh marathon, you know. It's a

Mystery, Prayer, And Intentional Practice

SPEAKER_05 10:55

marathon.

SPEAKER_02 10:55

Yeah, I do have one more thing I want to say. I think another thing that brought me to solidify my faith and orthodoxy really was the intentionality of relationship. Because I feel like for me, not really growing up with a father figure in my life, God has always been my father figure. And I've craved that pretty much throughout my whole life. And even in inquiring orthodoxy and seeing myself becoming orthodox, seeing how I was putting into practice what I was researching, not just you know, filling myself with all the information, all the knowledge, but actually putting to practice the prayers and devoting myself and veiling. I've I've never veiled in my life, I've never prayed to Mary, I've never prayed um to Christ on behalf of the saints. So seeing that intentionality and accepting those kinds of mysteries made me feel a lot more oh made me feel a lot more comfortable because I think the Protestant mindset that we've discovered throughout our whole life is what you've mentioned before. It has to be this way or another way, but that never works because that's why you see there's so many denominations. There's a continuous reformation after reformation after reformation after reformation. Yeah. So seeing the validity and a faith that has been uh unique and that has been consistent for over 2,000 years, but then the intentionality behind it of knowing that it's okay to experience God is a mystery, it's okay to not know the answers to everything, it's okay to let God just be God. Yeah, it uh has uh revolutionized my faith in an amazing way. It has made me completely undone in God's presence, where I thought like my relationship with God was solid, but after experiencing Him through, you know, especially with kissing through icons and um revercing the icons and then reverenc through the prayers and seeing how intentional the prayers were and dying to myself, that's kind of where I laugh, and I always will laugh about this. Is that you know, I thought, oh, this is gonna be intimidating for me to worship for two hours and whatnot and stand. But it made me to it made me to start thinking like why do we put a limit on how long we worship God and how long we pray? Why do we do those things? Why don't we just be vulnerable? Why don't we let time pass and truly pour our hearts out? And we die to ourselves so that God can actually speak. And ever since I've been implementing that more, I've always felt that I've heard the Holy Spirit speak to me through scripture and whatnot, but it's felt like even more now. It felt more tangible that I physically was bowing and veiling and being intentional about my prayer and not just being in my bed like, okay, God, uh thank you for this day. Like falling asleep mid-prayer and just not being intentional about what I'm saying to God. It's me dying to myself to truly receive what God has for me.

SPEAKER_05 14:20

Yeah. That was so well put. Yeah. Holy Spirit. That was so well put. I 100% what I hear in what you're saying is that orthodoxy, the practices of the faith that have been passed down for those 2,000 years you're talking about, right? All of it, the fasting, the confession, the prayer, the written prayers, right? The prayer rule, right? These things, they're not just ah, yeah, that's the way they do it. Yeah, like they're not just stylistic. It's not, oh, you're into that stuff, that's cool for you. That's not it at all.

SPEAKER_03 14:59

Right.

SPEAKER_05 15:00

This stuff was created. Why? Because it comes from Christ through the apostles.

Denominations And The Mental Gymnastics Problem

SPEAKER_06 15:06

Holy tradition.

SPEAKER_05 15:06

Through from holy tradition. Yeah. Because why? Because being a Christian is hard. Yeah. It's hard. Yeah. And the the faith, the church, is there to help us along. Yeah. And so we because we need those things as human beings. And so I think what you're saying is exactly right. That's why orthodoxy is so important, right? That's it's not about, oh, you guys are more traditional people, so you go to an Orthodox church.

SPEAKER_03 15:32

Right.

SPEAKER_05 15:32

It's not about that. This is how God intends his people to worship him.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

Amen.

SPEAKER_05 15:39

And it's how God helps hold on to us as and to help us hold on to him. Yeah. And so I loved that. That was wonderful.

SPEAKER_06 15:47

And actually, something to add to the part where she said, like, Protestants always reform and always reforming. Um I know that Gavin Orman like makes a case for an always reforming church. And that also put something in my mind as well. Um, before was just like, okay, well, when the Reformation happened, I mean, like Martin Luther and some of those first re uh um Protestants, like, they don't have the same teachings that Protestants today have. And it's like if we're always gonna keep reforming the church, like what what are we gonna get down to eventually? You know, because there was Catholics killing Protestants, there's Protestants killing Catholics. You know what I mean? And it's like, how far are we gonna go if we're gonna keep reforming to where it's like, do we even believe the faith anymore?

SPEAKER_05 16:33

We're seeing it right before our eyes, Brian. Yeah, like we're seeing it right before our eyes. Go watch a few Cloud of Witnesses videos, you know, if I can give a plug. We talk about it all the time. Don't worry. You see the church, you got guys who are walking around going, eh, do you really even need to go to church? What's I'm I'm closest to God when I'm by myself in my room, praying by myself, right? This is the church is devolving. The Protestant movement. Yeah, this is me, this is me opining here. I'm just giving my opinion. Yeah, I'm not sure. I don't speak for the Orthodox Church. But you see, the Protestant church before our eyes is literally in a downward spiral. Yeah. And it you got people trying to figure it out. Well, so many people are probably coming to Orthodoxy. I think it's exactly right, Brian. Yeah, I think you're exactly right. People are seeing the craziness of like, like you said, yeah, how much more can you reform? Reform, the reform, the reform, the reform.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

Billy Bob Joe versus like Todd. And you want to say it?

SPEAKER_06 17:34

Yeah, I always tell her I'm like when I'm talking to people about like Protestant churches and whatnot, and I'm like, well, what are you gonna go down to Billy Bob Backwater alligator Florida Gator's church? I'm like, I'm like, where are we gonna where are we gonna go? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05 17:49

Like exactly, exactly. And why why does Billy Bob's church have the better interpretation than Joe Bob? Yeah, the other way, you know what I mean? Why?

SPEAKER_06 17:59

That was also a thing that always sat in the back of my mind. I was like, so if we have the Anglican church, we have Lutheran church, and we have um Presbyterian churches, Baptist churches. I'm like, it always sat in my head too where the Holy Spirit will lead you in all truth. I'm like, that just doesn't add up. Like, okay, we all have the gospel, right? But it's like, why are we all so confused on what exactly is Christ saying? You know, Presbyterians and Anglicans and Lutherans believe in real presence, and Baptists are like, no, just a symbol. You know, the same with baptism, uh no, it's just a symbol. You know, and it's like I don't know, that stuff just always sat in the back of my head. And we actually told Father John this, and it was like it was funny, is that all these apologetics that we developed in our head um as as uh Protestant Christians before, and we love I still love apologetics, I do love apologetics. Absolutely and we're talking to Father John, and as just building those apologetics as a Protestant, it was like I have to make a defense for certain scriptures, and it wasn't until I started learning like some of the Orthodox theology, and I was like, why are we playing mental gymnastics as a Protestant on certain verses? And I told Father John that Father John was just like agreeing with me. He's like, that's exactly the term that I use is mental gymnastics. And it was when I was learning the theology of the Orthodox Church. I'm like, I don't even have to play these mental gymnastics. I was like, it just makes sense now, like it literally just makes sense now. Like I don't have to fight the theology, I don't have to uh go back five books and find out the answer. I don't gotta go back 20, but I'm not saying don't have biblical uh uh exeg exeg uh exegesis, but what I mean is is like we're doing all this jumping around and trying to build a defense for it. Um but Jehovah Witnesses do the same thing. Mormons do the same thing, you know what I mean? And um, yeah, that was just a biggest, the biggest thing as well. Yeah, you know. There's lots of biggest things, isn't there?

SPEAKER_05 20:11

That's so beautiful about the coxy, right? Yes, there's so many things. You nailed

Patreon Plug And Farewell

SPEAKER_05 20:17

it. Look at that, you made it to the end. Remember, all of our Patreons enjoy early access to episodes as well as uncut, unedited versions, including this episode here. You can go see the full thing over on our Patreon right now. It is the best way to support Cloud of Witnesses. It helps us keep the lights on, keeps the cameras rolling, and we thank you so much for being here right now. Please share with friends and family. We hope to see you on the next one. God bless you, and bye bye.