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The Ancient Faith Making Modern Christians Rethink Everything | Witness Weekly Kickoff Episode WW001
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Witness Weekly | WW001 | Kickoff Episode!
0:00 Intro
0:15 Mario Andrew – News
6:26 Discussion of the Week
21:05 James St Simon – Book & Film Recommendations / Review
26:28 Michael – Redlines (Philosophy & Politics)
30:25 Jeremy Jeremiah – Viewer Comments & Questions
“Smells and bells” vs “bare walls” misses the point. We debate beauty, Scripture, continuity, and why people say they met God at the Divine Liturgy.
A bishop detained under murky circumstances. A fresh call for Orthodox unity a decade after the Council of Crete. A study that claims part of a papal encyclical reads like it was AI assisted. We kick off the first Witness Weekly by moving fast through the headlines, then slowing down where it matters: what these moments reveal about religious freedom, public pressure on clergy, and the real stakes for Christians trying to live faithfully in a tense political climate.
We launch Witness Weekly with Orthodox news, a deep dive on why evangelicals convert to Orthodoxy, and a candid look at how rhetoric and assumptions can flatten real theological differences. We close with Dostoevsky’s The Brothers Karamazov, a challenge to political fixes for evil, and listener questions on worship music, conversion, and parish life.
• Metropolitan Hilarion’s detention in Lithuania and why prayer for clergy matters
• Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew’s renewed call for Orthodox unity and what changed since Crete
• A study suggesting AI assisted writing in a papal encyclical and where the line might be
• Archbishop Elpidophoros’ hospitalization and continued prayers for his recovery
• Common conversion motives and why “aesthetics only” is an unfair summary
• Purgatory as a Roman Catholic doctrine and why Orthodoxy gets mislabeled
• Institutional continuity versus doctrinal continuity and how Reformers argued their case
• The catechumen process as evidence that conversion is usually slow and deliberate
• Book of the week The Brothers Karamazov and why it speaks to believers and skeptics
• The problem of evil, the Grand Inquisitor, and the limits of political solutions
• Listener comment on worship music, tradition, standards, and Christian art
• Advice for Protestants navigating hard conversations when exploring Orthodoxy
Please let us know your thoughts in the comments
From there, we take on a question we keep seeing everywhere: why are evangelicals converting to Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy? We challenge the lazy take that people switch churches because they got dazzled by “smells and bells” or seduced by a vague sense of history. We talk about the long, prayerful process most converts go through, the catechumen journey, and the way outsiders often lump Orthodoxy and Catholicism together, especially around doctrines like purgatory. We also dissect the rhetoric behind “continuity” claims, including how Reformers like John Calvin argued they were the true heirs of the ancient Church.
We pivot into culture and formation with our book of the week, The Brothers Karamazov, and why Dostoevsky still feels uncomfortably current. We connect the problem of evil, the Grand Inquisitor’s political temptation, and the hard truth that there is no ideology that can substitute for personal responsibility and repentance. Finally, we respond to listener comments on worship music, tradition, and standards, and we offer practical advice for Protestants navigating difficult conversations while exploring Orthodoxy.
Can worship music be “frozen in time” and still alive? We respond to a tough listener critique, talk standards, lyrics, and the difference between church worship and Christian art.
Mario Andrew @AndrewStMercy
James St Simon @jamessaintsimon
Michael @redlineshq
Jeremy Jeremiah
Questions about Orthodoxy? Please check out our friends at Ghost of Byzantium Discord server: https://discord.gg/JDJDQw6tdh
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Please leave a comment with your thoughts!
Welcome To Witness Weekly
SPEAKER_05Welcome to the first episode of Witness Weekly. We're really excited about this. We've got a full house tonight. We've got James St. Simon joining us. Mike is in the studio, as well as Mario Andrew. This is our first episode. We hope you enjoy this.
Clergy Detained And Religious Freedom
SPEAKER_03Mario, get us started with the news. All right, so this week in the news in the Orthodox world and Christian and Catholic world, our first story comes out of Europe where Metropolitan Hilarion of the Russian Orthodox Church has spoken publicly about his recent detention by the authorities in Lithuania. He was actually arrested and held for a few days. So according to reports, Metropolitan Hilarion was detained. And upon his release, he expressed his concerns about clergy being detained and their experiences and persecution in this current political climate. Now, for us Orthodox Christians, persecution is not new. Like we've since the beginning have been persecuted, whether it be the Roman Empire under communism or current state powers. So continue to pray for our clergy and don't take our religious freedom for granted. Amen.
SPEAKER_05Mario, can you speak to why was he detained? What reason was given for the detention?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's where it gets a little tricky. Apparently, he had like a white substance in one of the cars. Again, kind of shady, right? It's like something that looked that nobody knows what it was. They just took him in and yeah, so really unfortunate situation.
Orthodox Unity After Council Of Crete
SPEAKER_03Um, our next story is um the ecumenical patriarch Bartholomew, he's actually calling for a renewed call to Orthodox unity. I don't know if you guys remember in 2016 there was the Council of Crete, where the ecumenical patriarch actually called all of the Orthodox churches, um, and not a lot of them showed up. And so he's calling, it's been 10 years since that. So he's calling for a renewed um participation in this council to revisit the council's um decisions. Now, for many people, this council is questionable, right? And so my question to the audience members is are we more unified now, 10 years later, or are we more divided as an Orthodox Church?
SPEAKER_05Well, this is something we've been talking about, you know, recently. There was in 2025 a three-day conference um at Holy Cross Seminary. Um, and it included the Greek Orthodox Church, it included the uh some representatives from the Oriental Orthodox Church, and I believe um some Armenians were there, cops as well. And it was part of this, Mario, this talk calling for unity in the church, um, and and looking for ways in which we can reunify, right? Um, what I want to say quickly here is, and I I want to get your guys' thoughts, and Mario, thank you for talking about this, because to me it's a very important topic. Um, maybe one of the most important topics of our lifetime, if you ask me. People listening right now, it is clear from pretty much anyone you talk to, there is no Christological controversy between the Oriental view and the Eastern Orthodox view. We can have that conversation. If you disagree, we can talk about it. But I want to say that that's my position on it. Um, and I would love to get you guys' thoughts.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, um it's it's one of those things that I feel America is helping with because um now that so many different cultures from outside of you know America are coming here, and you you can see the influx of Protestants becoming Orthodox. Many of these churches now that were you restricted to their areas, right? Like the Ethiopian church was only in Ethiopia and America, and you know, um the Coptic Church, it's in you know, Egypt and America, and all of these other churches, because so many of those people are coming to America and to reach the next generations, they're speaking English. And when we go back to the councils and you read what were some of the big obstacles that were getting in the way of their theology and these uh discussions, was the language barrier. Coming to America and and speaking English will probably help solve some of that, and maybe that will move us closer to uh reunification. Am I optimistic? I would like to be, um, but will it happen? I don't know.
SPEAKER_03Thank you. Thank you for that. Um, so now for our next um
AI Writing In A Papal Encyclical
SPEAKER_03story. There's a recent study that suggests that a portion of a papal encyclical shows signs of AI assisted writing.
SPEAKER_01Ironic.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah, totally. Um, so exactly. And I don't think any of us are against AI. Maybe Jeremy, maybe Jeremy is, but I don't think any of us are. Um, so it's just kind of where does the line draw, you know, for AI and uh for AI and in in the church, you know? Um, and then for our last story, Archbishop L. P. Dolphoros, excuse my Greek, I don't speak Greek, um, who many know, he's um one of the archbishops for the Greek archdiocese here in America. He was hospitalized in Thessaloniki um during liturgy, and he's been released. He is thankfully doing a lot better. So continue to pray for him. Um, if you don't know who he is, he's one of the um prominent voices within the American Orthodox um dialogue and is often involved in uh public discussion of faith, culture, and the role of the church in modern society. Um so continue to pray for our clergy, and uh that wraps up my portion of news for
Prayers For A Hospitalized Archbishop
SPEAKER_03this week.
SPEAKER_05Mario, thank you for that news. Um, it's a reminder of how important our clergy are in the church and how we need more priests and deacons. And as that generation of priests and bishops age, we need even more, right, to come in and fill those ranks. Um so you let's let's be praying for that. Discussion
Why Evangelicals Convert To Orthodoxy
SPEAKER_05of the week, gentlemen.
SPEAKER_00In looking at stories of conversion from evangelicalism to both Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, there seem to be a number of common traits. Um one very common reason given is the dissatisfaction with a sense of evangelical rootlessness, and a sense of perception that Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy have this deep historical continuity, and therefore that the Reformed Church, the evangelical church, is the um is the the child, the teenager of the modern age, and therefore they want historical um roots. They also want um aesthetic.
SPEAKER_05Notice that's baked in here is the assumption that there isn't that historical continuity, right? There isn't that deep tradition. He makes it sound, it just sounds like there is. In essence, he's saying Protestant converts to Orthodoxy have been duped. They've been duped. Because at least I just hear it inherent in what he's saying so far. Um and yet, we know tens of thousands of or uh Protestants are coming into Orthodoxy. I feel that's offensive to those people. I mean, we've interviewed many of them here in this room. They spend hours and months and weeks looking into the faith, studying, reading, praying, talking to priests, talking to friends, going to their own elders of their own faith, of you know, whatever Protestant denomination they're part of. It's not as if Protestants are watching a single J. Dyer video and being like, yeah, I'm gonna go to the Orthodox Church now. But that's what I feel like he's he's kind of assuming.
SPEAKER_00Desire for uh an aesthetic beauty that is perceived to be lacking in evangelical circles. Alongside that, there seems to be repeatedly uh statements made about the theological differences between evangelical and Roman Catholic Eastern Orthodox positions not meaning much to them. So, for example, belief in purgatory, belief in justification by faith alone. But I I see again and again in stories of these conversions, people saying that didn't seem to trouble me much. I'm happy to take on board purgatory. Now let's just deal with that one straight away. If you happily take on board purgatory, it's because you've really not understood the finished work of Christ. The idea that I need to somehow top up or complete the work of Christ by something that I do or is done to me after death is the most blasphemous affront to the perfect sufficiency of Christ and his work.
SPEAKER_05This person's obviously a reformed uh Christian. I'll go on a limb and say that because of his emphasis on the finished work of Christ in such a definitive way. And I understand that. I will note for those of you watching right now, Orthodox do not have the doctrine of purgatory. It is not an Orthodox position at all. Now, some people want to say, well, but you believe in something. Well, no, we don't, because it's not doctrine. You know, there you could there are some saints you can point to that have pious opinion and comment on certain things, but there's not an actual doctrine in all of orthodoxy that is anything like purgatory. Um so this is really an anti-Roman Catholic point he's making here. I don't know if you guys want to comment on that beyond that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, just going back, I guess, just for a second, to his original point about, you know, what you're saying, he keeps repeating like the perceived continuity that these churches have. Right. And your point that, you know, people aren't just watching a single video and then converting to orthodoxy. On top of that,
Purgatory Claims And Orthodox Clarifications
SPEAKER_01not only are a lot of these Protestant evangelical converts doing a ton of research on their own, but if you talk to them, us included, it's not just um an intellectual exercise or an academic exercise of learning history. That can be a part of it for sure. But there's also a lot of prayer that goes along with that. And in Orthodoxy, you can't just walk into an Orthodox church and become Orthodox. There's a period of being a catechumen.
SPEAKER_04Amen.
SPEAKER_01So it takes time and it takes, you know, it can be at least a year or longer of attending the services, living as an Orthodox Christian before you are brought into the church. So I think what he's saying of like, oh, there's just this perceived continuity and they've been duped, as you said. People who are converting, it's a very it's a long process. So I think um those converts, us included, it's it's a lot, a lot more has gone into it, I think, than what he's presenting.
SPEAKER_04Amen. Well said. James, any thoughts?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, uh like many things, it's always part of the problem, right? Or part of what drew people to orthodoxy. There's no doubt that the historicity of the Orthodox Church and its its ancient roots is a very big factor, but it's not the only factor. Um, and you know, they point to the aesthetics. Um, they don't realize how scripturally grounded those aesthetics are. People often criticize the smells and bells of the Orthodox Church, and it's like it's not just smells and bells, it's Isaiah chapter six, it's revelation, it's there, it's grounded in scripture. So it's not just uh we went because of the history, or we went because of the smells and bells, or we went because um it's traditional. There's a lot more to it, and this the simplification of these things or oversimplification doesn't help the cause.
SPEAKER_05Amen. I want to say very quickly before we jump back into it, and I'm so glad you mentioned it. Um it is not even really the intellectual side of it, even after all. What do we hear again and again and again? Father Josiah said it recently, he hears it all the time. It's that people go to the divine liturgy and they experience the presence of God. And that's what keeps them in the Orthodox Church, not the smells and bells, not even, yes, they've studied a lot as as we have, you know, but it's really they find that God is there, the body of Christ is there. So thank you guys. That was that was beautiful.
SPEAKER_00It is not a small issue. As for historical continuity, it is something that uh I think in Eastern Orthodox circles it it's sort of put in your face, it looks historical. If you go into an Eastern Orthodox Church, it feels old. And so you can buy the fact that there might
Continuity, Calvin, And Rhetoric
SPEAKER_00be this complete continuity. It's really not so simple as that. You might have an institutional continuity, but that doesn't mean the same thing as a doctrinal continuity. And this was something that John Calvin dealt with at the very beginning of the Reformation.
SPEAKER_05Oh, did he?
SPEAKER_00When he wrote to a representative of the Church of Rome, his name is Cardinal Sadoleto, and said, Our reformers, our agreement with the ancient church is much greater than yours. We're the ones who are the true heirs of the apostles and have not deviated from them. We are not saying new doctrines. Can you pause right there, Mario?
SPEAKER_05I'm sorry, you guys. Did Calvin say that and make those claims? Absolutely. Why? Because of sola scriptura. They were reading the Apostle Paul primarily in that in those instances, and they were interpreting the scriptures the way that they would, according to faith alone, by grace alone, you know, through Christ alone, etc. In other words, with the Protestant infrastructure, if you will, they're reading scripture and interpreting it, and then there's backwards ex post facto saying, see, we agree with Paul. Because look at Paul in Romans chapter 9 is clearly, you know, upholding um uh predestination. So therefore we are in conformity with the early church, not the Orthodox. What a thing to say.
SPEAKER_00Not innovators, they were renovators, holding the ancient apostolic faith, the biblical faith of the early church. Finally, to aesthetics. We all know the power of a beautiful sight, how it can capture our souls. And I think it is tempting for evangelicals and reformed to say, well, if evangelical and re uh if Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic aesthetics are winning people over, maybe we ought to have greater aesthetics ourselves. What are we doing in a room like this? Shouldn't we be in a cathedral? And we need to show that the spiritual beauty of Jesus Christ is true and more beautiful than any earthly reflection of that. Now, it is good to have aesthetics in the Christian life. It is it is good to have beauty as part of God's creation, but primarily we are here to preach Jesus Christ in all his truth, goodness, and beauty. And as we see people converting, we need to show the aesthetic beauty of Jesus Christ and his completed work. An example could be let's hold up a completely sufficient, utterly gracious Saviour against the God who would think of such a doctrine as purgatory. Because what does such a God have? An insufficient Savior and a demand put on us versus a completely sufficient savior who accomplishes everything and says it is finished. Let's show a people that kind of beauty in the very heart of God, and that will win them to a true and biblical faith.
SPEAKER_05He says it straight out. At least he's being honest and consistent. He's saying, look, we can have bare walls as long as our intellectual we assent to the right doctrine, i.e., that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone, right? That there's uh in the Protestant framework, you know, man contributes nothing to his salvation but his sin, right? These ideas. He had he's just saying it. That is their way of presenting an aesthetic. I don't know how that's an aesthetic. And I and I think our LDS friends do the same thing. I'm not sure if you guys have seen an LDS stake, but they are a lot of bare walls. It's a they're like college classrooms. But what they say is, well, what we're preaching is true, right? It's the same argument that he's making.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and Protestant in Protestantism, they have this thing where they make this strong division between the physical and the spiritual. And it's sort of true that they're, you know, they're separate, but they they like completely separate them, so they never touch each other. Like he says, you know, we have doctrinal truth, so who cares about aesthetics? But it's like if you have the truth, that will manifest itself physically. And so I feel like that kind of happens in the Orthodox Church. It's like the truth of what we have is so beautiful that it it just kind of naturally comes out, you know, when we build churches and when we do the sort of thing. And he did the same thing when he's talking about having doctrinal truth versus an institution. He kind of acknowledged that we have institutional continuity, which was interesting. Yes, but he separated institutional continuity from doctrinal truth. Right. And it it doesn't make much sense to my mind that the institution that Christ established could have lost the truth. Right. You know, so they make this very strong distinction between the spiritual and the physical, whereas I feel like, you know, in in orthodoxy, we we kind of hold those two things together in a way.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah, this was a master class in rhetoric. Yes. Um you can tell that uh in many cases a lot of them are are very good at persuasive speech. Uh but you'll notice, like you pointed out, Mike, that he's associating even the the continuity, the institutional continuity, he's associating that with purgatory, right? So that you don't even get the win with the institution with the institutional um continuity because there's purgatory. Right. Right? Right. And he associates the aesthetics to Christ and scripture and all of these things, but he never actually goes beyond purgatory. That's the only thing that he has.
SPEAKER_05He was really ignoring the Orthodox completely. Even though he mentioned the Orthodox, he's painting with such a broad brush using this pejorative of purgatory. The Orthodox in the room are like, do you have anything to say about our historical and institutional continuity and our doctrinal continuity?
SPEAKER_01Well, you run into that a lot. Um Protestants just associate orthodoxy with Catholicism. They they just assume that we kind of have the same doctrines. Right. Um, that's just not the case.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Thank you guys for that discussion.
Book Pick The Brothers Karamazov
SPEAKER_05Um, Mario, I believe we're ready to head to our book of the week brought to you by James St. Simon.
SPEAKER_02The book of the week is The Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor Dostoevsky. The reason why I chose this book is because we've been reading it for um about two months.
SPEAKER_05So really you mean you mean 20 years? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02We've been reading it since Lent started. But why is this book always in the zeitgeist? Why are people always talking about this book?
SPEAKER_03Um especially lately.
SPEAKER_02Especially lately, yeah, absolutely. Um, it seems like if you look up the brothers Karamazov or Dostoevsky, um, it's right there. And a lot of people are talking about it, Christian or not. And that's an important part of why this book is so important. Because whether you're Christian or you're atheist, this book is relevant. Um, Dostoevsky Is famously a realist. And what makes this book so real is that no one in this book behaves as you would expect them to. And he handles those paradoxes in a very um intelligent way, so that it's not to minimum minimize their stance and their view. And you see this specifically in the problem of evil with Ivan and the suffering that these characters endure. And these characters embody ideals, they embody worldviews. But what he really shows is also what it is to be a Christian in a world where there is suffering. And I think that that's what's very important. You could either read it and become more convinced of your Christianity, or you can read it and become an atheistic nihilist. But you can see his pre-less attitude, this delusion of piety that leads him to be, leads him to be very harsh, and he loses charity. You have this ser uh the seminarian Rakitin, and Rakitin is is studying to be a priest and a theologian, but he's the most cynical and um just ill-tempered person in the whole story who has so much resentment and he's his heart is just hard. And then you have another surprising character, Katarina Ivanovna, who is virtuous in the eyes of many, but that virtue is is her pride, right? And she uses that virtue, she uses her her um moral superiority to dominate, and her love even becomes controlling and domineering. So you can kind of see that what he's showing is in some ways, and I and I say this rhetorically as well, Christianity can get in the way of Christ in many ways. And we see this with the Grand Inquisitor, specifically when you you can study God so much that you actually forget who he is in studying him, and you see that in those characters, but he doesn't leave it there, thank God. He gives us characters like Alyosha, he gives us characters like Elder Zosima, he gives us characters, even Grushenka, who is surprisingly a gem in this story, that when Elder Zosima, in the eyes of the pious, seems like he's lenient, he's too loving of sinners, he shows a self-sacrificial love and a humility that doesn't need to please everyone institutionally. And we see Alyosha as well. Even in the moment of his great weakness and doubt, a little bit of kindness from the right person reminded him of why he does what he does. And it's for goodness sake to glorify God, whether whether he's gonna get the credit for it or not, or whether he has any kind of advantage to gain from it or not. And that chapter, The Onion with Krushenka, that little bit of charity when she had the opportunity to to really pounce on someone's vulnerability, she gives grace. And that grace revitalizes Alyosha and it reminds him, he restores his faith in humanity and his faith in God, and it's that whole thing, right? I don't reject God, I reject his world. And he handles that so well that the world is full of suffering. What do you make of it? You can either become uh like Smurdiakov or Ivan, who can't even tell the difference between the devil or his own mind, or you can be like Alyosha, right? Who takes even the little miracles and you can appreciate the little miracles, and and it'll in an abundance of faith, a little miracle will take you as far as the cross. And so I recommend anybody, if you haven't read for some reason The Brothers Caramus Off. I know this is intimidating because of the size. It'll be well worth it. It it's it started me on my path to orthodoxy because of just how beautiful it was before I even knew what orthodoxy was. Now that I'm reading it as an Orthodox Christian, I mean it's must read.
SPEAKER_05James, um, thank you for that book of the week. That's awesome. Uh, Mike, we're really looking forward to your segment.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I've
Evil, Politics, And Personal Responsibility
SPEAKER_01been thinking about um the Brothers Caramazov tube a lot. Um, because like you mentioned, it is in the Zeitgeist, it is being talked about even outside of Orthodox circles and outside of Christian circles. So its relevance is still there even today. And one of the things I've been thinking about with that book is Dostoevsky's view of political solutions to our problems. And he discusses this through again, one of the main themes that runs all throughout the book is the problem of evil. In the rebellion chapter articulated by Ivan, the atheistic character, he argues, I think one of the strongest steel man arguments that Dostoevsky could have made for a question that a lot of people ask, you know, how can God exist if there is suffering in the world, little children's suffering? And I think Dostoevsky does a great job of really putting the argument in a way that somebody who is having those questions would feel comfortable with. Yes, that is that's my position on this. And one of Ivan's answers to that problem as presented in the Grand Inquisitor chapter is he sees, I think, um, a political solution to the problem. Where he he seems to argue that the root of evil is the fact that people have free choice, that they can make their own decisions, and if they're allowed to make those decisions, they'll make decisions that cause other people to suffer. And so the solution that he's effectively arguing for through the Grand Inquisitor is a political solution that removes people's ability to be free moral agents. It defers their moral responsibility off to a political system or a political ideology and it hands it over to somebody who's going to make those decisions for you. And people people are happy to do that, I think, in a lot of cases, because it just it relieves the burden of having to be um morally responsible. It's Friday. But I think throughout the book, ultimately Dostoevsky's point is that there is no political solution to this problem or like the real problems that we have. That doesn't mean that politics is like useless or you know that we should blackpill on on being involved in in politics or anything. I don't think that's what he's saying. But the questions that are being asked here are much more foundational than what can be addressed through a political solution. And when you look at that, it's it's not that, as I said earlier, some abstract political ideology or political theory can solve these issues. The problem is much more specific than that. It's not this broad, abstract thing, it's much more particular. And the particular problem is you as an individual and how you're living your life. Um, I think it's Father Turbo who who's I've heard him say this before. I'm sure others have said it as well. But he says, like a lot of people come into the Orthodox Church because they see the problems in the world. But very shortly after coming into the church, you realize that the problem is you. And I think that is one of the key things that Dostoevsky is trying to get at is saying that there is not a political solution to our problems. That the solution is how are you living your life in the world?
SPEAKER_02But at the end of the day, what what are you doing about you? The only thing that you can control. Are you contributing to making the world more evil? Are you doing your part in trying to make the world beautiful? Because as we know, Dostoevsky famously said, beauty will save the world. Amen.
SPEAKER_05Amen. It's not a cloud witnesses podcast unless that quote is said.
Listener Comments Worship Music Debate
SPEAKER_05I love it. We hope that you're enjoying this episode of Witness Weekly. Please let us know your thoughts in the comments. We're actually going to be reading uh questions and comments from you guys in these episodes. And so we encourage you to let us know. You can also write to us, each one of us, we all have our individual channels, which you'll see linked down below. But you can also write to us cloudwitnesses radio at gmail.com, um, and we'll be happy to kind of look at your uh insight and contribute to the uh podcast. So, guys, one here real quick. Um, I'm not gonna say the names of the people unless they give us permission, but this was a comment we got recently. Um, and here's here it goes. You have made videos highlighting the glory of Orthodox worship while discrediting worship music of today for sounding like the world, like evangelical rock music stuff. However, orthodox worship is just music frozen in time from before you existed with early transcripts from 400 and 500 AD. Catholics do something similar, claiming their music is pure. When like Orthodoxy, it's just frozen in time. You also often contradict yourself by knocking music that sounds like the world, but then you praise Christian metal. Last, this is the final sentence. I am interested to know your specific ideas on what worship music is, because orthodox music was once also of this world. It's interesting. It's I feel free to jump in. I I want to read the comment. I think it's it gives the author of this comment some validity. I think it's an interesting question. However, I would simply say that in orthodoxy, it's not simply frozen in time because we do allow for all kinds of music. And I would point you to the episode I did with Graham Sparkman, um who is an Orthodox Christian musician who's written something like 10, 12 albums of music over the past 20 years. Um and only like one or two percent of it was actual liturgical music that he's done. So we embrace all kinds of music and artistic expression. Mike, you said it tonight. When you have the faith, the faith itself is beautiful and it's going to exude itself in what you do. I think that's that's the answer. It's just a matter of what happens in the church as part of the liturgical process, is a decision not made by me, but by the bishops and priests of our church. Yes, have any thoughts?
SPEAKER_02I think it's a bit of an equivocation, right? Because um we don't define worship in the same way, right? I'm a big fan of Christian music, you know. Um, I still like to listen to um Christian artists who make songs that are deeply rooted in scripture, like Chris Tomlin. You know what I mean? Like his songs are straight out of you know the psalms and and just Bible verses put to music. I see nothing wrong with that. Sure. Um it's just we don't call it necessarily worship music, right? I mean, we just don't have the same labels for it.
SPEAKER_01To the point of it just being frozen in time when it at one point it was just the music of the day. I would just say there has to be a line drawn somewhere. Right. Because if you have that perspective of like, well, Orthodox, you know, the music that's used in the liturgy was just the music of their day. So what's the difference between that and and modern Protestant music? If you have no line, no real standard, then if you listen to some of the Protestant quote unquote worship music today, the lyrics themselves, not just the style of music, but the lyrics themselves can be indistinguishable from a secular love song.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01And I think that's that can be a problem. So it's there has to be some sort of standard, which unfortunately Protestants, as far as when it comes to worship music, they don't really have any authoritative standard to point to.
SPEAKER_05Amen. Well said. Um you guys will like this one. Another comment from another of our viewers.
Advice For Protestants Exploring Orthodoxy
SPEAKER_05Hi, my husband introduced me to Orthodoxy. We're both Protestant. I was totally against it at first, but I'm now agreeing with what we've learned so far about the Orthodox Church. We're planning to leave our church, but my husband and I, James, this you'll probably appreciate this one. But my husband and I are serving in the youth ministry at our church, and we'd have to talk to our pastor. Could you provide any advice as to how we should navigate this conversation for context in our church's eyes, their Protestant church, Roman Catholics and Orthodox are lumped into one category and they're not viewed as Christians at all. They'd like to give us some pushback and question our salvation if we expound it on what on why we're leaving. Advice?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, um, leave quietly is the best way to go. Um, because you're whatever you hope for in your conversation with your pastor, it's not gonna be. I can't guarantee that it's gonna be pretty, but it's definitely not what you're gonna hope for. Um you may hope that they're gonna be happy for you, that this is gonna be a good thing, um, but really they might be concerned for your soul and for your salvation. And it might stir the pot with the congregation. And it's hard. It's hard when you're really connected because that was the case with my wife and I. We were serving in a lot of ministries. Um, but the best thing that you can do is to leave quietly and find a parish and talk to that priest, the parish priest, about what troubles you, and they can guide you and give you the advice on on how to move forward. I know Protestants who who converted to orthodoxy that actually it's like almost over a year later, and they're still not baptized yet because they have been advised by their priests actually to continue to attend for the sake of their spouse and just continue their private pious prayers and to seek God. Um, and then eventually they both came to the Orthodox Church.
SPEAKER_05Amen. Beautiful. This one will make this quick. Um, hi, Cloud of Witnesses. Just wanted to say I'm a huge fan of your content. Thank you. Um, you're truly doing God's work. I was recently chrismated into the Orthodox Church. Congratulations, thanks be to God. I love your explanation of the dangers of Protestant heresy. My partner is making the transition, transition from a Baptist church to Orthodoxy too. God bless. Amen. We love hearing that, you guys. This one was on that recent video, if you guys recall, there was that Orthodox priest who became a Lutheran pastor. This was a comment on that video. Anxiety question mark. I was a lifelong Roman Catholic who converted to Orthodoxy this year. And all I have to say is the following: when you find the true church, you know it in your heart. I never knew what was missing until I attended my first divine liturgy on a whim, and I decided to convert on the spot. So, congratulations, gentlemen. That was the first episode of Witness Weekly.
Closing Plans For Weekly Format
SPEAKER_05You guys, God willing, look forward to this episode once a week. We're gonna be filling you in on the news in orthodoxy, a book of the week recommendation, the what we're calling the red lines, the intersection between politics, philosophy, orthodoxy, um, as well as your comments, your questions, um, and a discussion of the week. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for watching this long. We hope to see you guys on the next one. God bless, and bye bye.