What Every Christian Should Know About Spiritual Warfare: You're Fighting the Wrong (Daily) Battle

Most Christians Misunderstand Spiritual Warfare

Tarot, “spiritual but not religious,” self-medication, therapy culture. Why are people chasing spiritual answers everywhere except the Church? We dig into the hunger underneath it all.

Spiritual warfare gets weird fast if we only talk about the most extreme cases. We wanted to bring it back to real life: the battle you feel in temptation, shame, anxiety, isolation, and that quiet voice that says, “You are on your own.” From our new studio setup, we (Jeremy Jeremiah, Michael, James St. Simon, and Mario Andrew on keys) dig into what spiritual warfare meant to us as Protestants and how that understanding changed after becoming Orthodox Christians.

• Protestant instincts toward “just pray and read” when suffering persists
• Orthodoxy framing spiritual warfare through theosis and holiness
• Fasting as training that pushes us into the arena
• Demonic influence showing up in ordinary temptations and discouragement
• Psychology and therapy having a place without replacing spiritual diagnosis
• Confession, spiritual fatherhood, Eucharist, almsgiving as practical remedies
• Isolation as a tactic that makes addiction and shame worse
• Secular culture offering self-medication and “you can do it alone” narratives
• Occult and “spiritual but not religious” as substitutes for Christian spirituality
• Love as action and the Church as the place we experience Christ’s care

We keep coming back to the Orthodox framework of theosis, union with Christ, where the goal is not just “surviving attacks” but moving toward holiness with the support of the Church. We talk about why fasting can feel like stepping into an arena, how confession and a spiritual father break the trap of isolation, and why the sacraments, especially the Eucharist, aren’t symbolism but medicine for the soul and body. We also wrestle with the everyday nature of the fight: habits, intrusive thoughts, passions, and the moments where it gets hardest exactly when you try to be faithful.

Ever notice fasting gets hardest when you try to be faithful? We talk theosis, confession, Eucharist, and why you are not meant to “white-knuckle” your way through spiritual warfare.

We also look outward at modern replacements for spiritual care: therapy culture, self-medication, pharmacies on every corner, and the promise that you can fix yourself alone. Then we connect that to the rise of tarot and “spiritual but not religious,” including the backlash when a tarot creator turns to Christ. People are hungry for the spiritual, and we believe the Church actually has what many are searching for, but it comes with a cost: love expressed in action.

Spiritual warfare is not just Hollywood exorcisms. What if the real battle is isolation, temptation, and despair, and the Church gives actual tools to fight?

Subscribe, share this with a friend, and leave a review if it helps you, then tell us: where do you see the real front lines of spiritual warfare today?

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Transcript

New Studio, Same Mission

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Cloud of Witnesses. Jeremy Jeremiah here. We're really excited about this new episode. We're in a new studio, joined by Michael. We've got Mario Androva on the keys and James St. Simon with us as well. You guys, it's been a very busy few weeks here. Um the Cloud of Witnesses studio has moved. So please uh kind of forgive us for you can tell we're still getting the room set up. It's a little bare bones. The sound is probably a little off, uh, but we're gonna be working on that. We're looking forward to bringing you guys a lot more content now that we're getting situated. Mario,

Protestant Vs Orthodox Warfare Mindset

SPEAKER_00 0:33

the con the uh conversation today is about spiritual warfare.

SPEAKER_04 0:36

Yes. So I have a question for the guys. Um, so what did spiritual warfare mean to you as a Protestant as opposed to now you as an Orthodox Christian?

SPEAKER_00 0:46

James, you want to kick us off?

SPEAKER_03 0:48

Sure. Um one of the things that I always thought about was spiritual warfare before I was Orthodox was how am I going to survive this? And um whenever we discussed with a pastor or somebody, you know, I feel like I'm I'm being you know attacked or I'm going through something really difficult. Um the response is always fairly similar. Just pray about it, uh, read scripture, listen to some worship songs, and you'll be fine. Um, but in many cases, you know, it seemed like I was already doing that, you know. Um and it's still uh very difficult. This isn't going away. Like, what do I do to make it stop?

SPEAKER_00 1:37

Hi, welcome to Cloud of Witnesses. Jeremy Jeremiah here. We produce Christian content that we hope is edifying and building the kingdom of Jesus Christ. Please stick around. If you are interested in hearing more, hit that subscribe button. You'll be notified every time new content's coming your way. If you like this, hit that like button. Hitting that bell as well always helps more people find this content. This episode is for you. We hope to see you at the end. Enjoy.

Theosis, Fasting, And Church Support

SPEAKER_03 2:03

The Orthodox Ronima that you are in a process of of theosis, right? Becoming united to Christ. Uh it the stakes are higher when you think of spiritual warfare, but also the remedy is a lot more um practical in that there are steps that you get doing. There are uh the church is there to support you, and um you have the support of your spiritual father, you have specific prayers for for different types of attacks, and uh ultimately your goal is holiness. So when you recognize you are being attacked spiritually, you you strive for holiness, and it's not so much of surviving, it's it's continuing in that pursuit of holiness with an awareness of being attacked with the support of the church, the support of the sacraments to bring healing to your soul and body. And um uh it's just you feel like you're not as alone going to the spiritual warfare and being united with the church.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

James, your response there, thank you, well put, to me, in so many ways encapsulizes the polar opposite of what I experience as a Protestant. Because I would could almost sum up my experience with or understanding of spiritual warfare when I was a Protestant was oh my gosh, did you see, you know, um, that guy, you know, was demon-possessed and he was talking really weird, and that was a demon in him, right? Like that was our understanding of spiritual warfare. It was like this thing over there, which we really didn't interact with, but it was those poor people maybe in Santeria or those poor people in some tribe somewhere that's become demon-possessed, and we heard about it, and that was almost like we're just reflecting on it, like, wow, yeah, that's scary. And you know, because we certainly believe in demons and Protestants acknowledge the spiritual reality of the world, but the framework that you just now kind of summarized or outlined, I think is the beauty of orthodoxy. I heard Father Spiridon speaking on this, and he talks about, and it's so awesome to think about it this way. The church actually pushes us into spiritual warfare. It through what? Through the seasons of fasting. It's intending us to go into the arena, to go into spiritual warfare. Why? Why would it throw us in like that? Because of the things you were talking about, James. The church has the support, the teaching, the experience, the um, the practice, right? The lives of the saints, the examples of those who have done it for years and years and years to help us along the way, because through that spiritual warfare, we get healing, we can become closer to God, we learn not to despair.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

And just to

Everyday Temptation And Spiritual Reality

SPEAKER_01 5:15

add on to that, I think when I was a Protestant and a lot of Protestants as well, when we think of spiritual warfare, we think of these like extreme cases, the almost like the Hollywood um picture of like extreme demonic possession or that sort of thing. Culture. Yes, exactly. But that's not necessarily the case because what you were saying is it applies to us every single day.

SPEAKER_04 5:39

Do you think that like like for me when I became Orthodox Christian, it kind of made me feel like I'm fighting evil versus just myself, right? Because I feel like as a Protestant, you know, it's really you're battling your flesh, quote unquote, right? Yeah. And so I feel like when I became Protestant, I was like, oh, this is cool. I get to enter into this battlefield, right? And for me as a young man, it's very appealing to me because I'm like, I get to defeat the devil and you know, help defeat the demons, right? Um I don't know. Did you guys have that same experience?

SPEAKER_00 6:10

I I I love the the metaphor. It makes me think of the you know very well-known icon within orthodoxy of St. George um, you know, defeating the dragon, right? And there's this very real sense, Mario, in which you know we are engaging with, as you were just now saying, Mike, with the spirits, right, with the principalities of this world, right, on a daily basis. Um and yet it can look like what I think Protestants often want to talk about or maybe emphasize more of, which is, well, you know, my own struggle with uh, you know, spending too much time online or, you know, my indulgence with food or these types of things. It can look, and James, I think you've touched on this almost, well, there's a psychological answer to that, right? We can kind of explain that. Jeremy, you know, you were brought up in a certain way, you ate lots of sugars growing up. So, you know, it's an addiction. And so you need to focus on the psychology. Whereas as an Orthodox Christian, I I know, sure, there's a psychological element to it, no doubt. I'm not denying that. And Orthodox Christians have no problem with psychology and modern science, et cetera. But rather, I know in my own challenges, there's also a very real spiritual component. Because when I want to be faithful, when I want to maintain the fast, suddenly that's when it's hardest to do so. And it's more than just, oh, my brain is telling me. There are very real choices that have to be made, and it's not easy. And and you you feel the presence or the influence um of the demonic in those instances in a very real way.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

Yeah, and even though, like you said, psychology and that sort of thing definitely plays a role, it has its part. But I think the secular world that we're in has taken those things and tried to completely replace um the spiritual element of it and replace the church's um medicines for those for those things. So, you know, things like therapy can be a really good thing um for a lot of people, but unfortunately it in a lot of ways has been taken to replace, you know, having a spiritual father or confession and these sorts of things to where the over-psychologizing of what really is a spiritual problem has become a religious practice of the secular world that we're in.

SPEAKER_03 8:45

I also grew up with a youth pastor who said everything is spiritual. And I didn't understand it then. But after becoming orthodox, understanding that everything is spiritual. Sure. Uh what you put into your body is spiritual, uh, what you consume with your eyes is spiritual, what you can, you know, what you listen to with everything. Every choice you make, every choice you make is spiritual. And just how things can be demonically possessed, things can be also blessed and sanctified. And part of theosis is a blessing and sanctifying the body along with the soul. And it it does put you more in the offensive rather than in the defensive. How do I protect myself from demonic activity or demonic influence or temptation or vice, um sickness, right? Um there are things that you can be doing proactively to attack the you know, spiritual warfare, uh, the temptations, right, the uh intrusive thoughts, and the things that war against your soul and your body. And those are things that you guys talked about, uh fasting, confession, partaking of the Eucharist, almsgiving as well.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Where you

Isolation As A Demonic Tactic

SPEAKER_01 10:05

mentioned isolation, where I think a lot of Protestants would acknowledge the importance of not being isolated, of you know, being a part of a community, having a mentor or something like that. But there's also this underlying kind of way of thinking that they have with, you know, whether it's solar scripture or anything else, it's salvation is primarily an individual thing, right? For them. And so when you're facing these problems, um it can be very isolating, especially if it's if it's you know, some sort of addiction, like you mentioned, that you know, you might be embarrassed or shameful to talk about or something like that. And so you end up just kind of battling that on your own. And you know, we're talking about spiritual warfare, so to use that analogy. In military terminology, the worst thing that could possibly happen is for you to be isolated or cut off. Um, and so that I think is a real tactic from the, you know, any kind of demonic influence is to isolate you and cut you off and have you battle these things on your own. But the Orthodox Church has a solution to that just built into it with confession to a priest, with a spiritual father, and with the mindset that we have that there is an individual aspect to salvation, but there's also a collective aspect to that we're saved together.

SPEAKER_02 11:34

Right.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

So I think that was a huge part of coming into the Orthodox Church is that it really resolves the problem of isolation.

SPEAKER_00 11:43

You remind me, Mike, of the world, of the secular approach to all this.

Therapy, Self-Medication, And Pharmakia

SPEAKER_00 11:49

You said it so well, how the devil wants us to be isolated, to feel alone, to be discouraged and to disparage of our hope of salvation. How does the world do it in this context? I think about the commercials I see on YouTube for better help, right? Again, there's nothing wrong with therapy, but I think about these businesses that are now, you know, on being sold on the stock market because they're so large that they're selling. Mike, you don't need the church, you don't need anything like that. You can solve this with better help, right? You get a therapist who's gonna help you along the way, and that's great, but it's only half the solution, as we talked about, right? But then there's a big one that I think we haven't talked about yet: pharmacia. Every corner, it seems like in every major city in America, there's a CVS, a Walgreens, there's a pharmacy in Walmart, there's a pharmacy in Target. You can get your stuff online. I mean, we are a society of self-medication. And to me, that is the world, that's the secular uh world saying you can fix yourself with just take these pills, right? Just take these pills here, and you're gonna be on your way. And sure, yeah, get go get better help as well. Um, but Mike, you're good to go on your own. And I think that is a lie and a spiritual warfare. Think about how the pharmacy, which as you guys know historically, that's a word of sorcery, right? And these chemicals that people are putting in their bodies every single day.

SPEAKER_03 13:30

Say like something like body dysmorphia, right? Like that can become a real psychological issue that you can actually nutritionally address the problem to where you're on a healthy diet, right? But there's still something about the way that you see your body that makes you unhappy. Yep. Right. And so now you are are it's you're never fit enough, right? You're not healthy enough. And then that takes a form of, you know, it could be vanity or it can be in the other sense. And and you know, if if you come from poverty and then you you become wealthy, you think that solves that problem. You go on a diet, you get healthy, and you know, your medication, you're not you're you don't need medication. So you're all you're healthy and everything is seems to be fine, and then you're not. You're still depressed, you're still unhappy, you're still uh proud, you're still, you know, impatient, and you're like, I have it seems like I solved every physical problem that I can have. Why am I still suffering? Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:37

Because as St. Augustine says, there is a God-shaped hole in your heart, right? And only, and that's a paraphrase, only God can fill it, right? And that's going back to the point, this all comes down to the spiritual battle, right? You can have the perfect life. You think about so many celebrities, right, who have it all. They have private chefs for the best food. They're they look fantastic because they're, you know, they have their personal trainers, they've got millions of dollars. They can have it all, and they do have it all. And what do we see in those cases time and time again? Total crash out, right? Whether it's suicide or they end up in rehab somewhere, right? Because the reality is, and James, that was so well put, it is a we are spiritual beings at our core, right? And when those issues, when the passions are not being addressed, which I don't think the secular world, in all of its therapy and in all of its formicia, it's not addressing those things. Well,

Tarot, Spiritual Hunger, And Bad Witness

SPEAKER_00 15:42

this um this woman, um, Alex Reads Tarot, has become Christian and she's completely given up her channel. You guys can imagine, with millions of followers, she gave away probably her income, all kinds of things. That world, the tarot reading world, is up in arms and they're attacking her, how dare she, et cetera. The reason I bring that up is to me, it speaks to another level in which we as human beings, even if you haven't found Christ, if you haven't come to faith, you still desire a spiritual answer. And so you're gonna find it somewhere else. And how many people, you guys, in today's day and age are finding it in tarot, they're finding it through energy healing, they're finding it in Wicca, right? They're finding it in paganism and even to a large extent, even in Satanism. Why? Why is that happening? Why do people flood into these spiritual? It's providing a spiritual answer to the world. They're not denying the spiritual as maybe the secular world might. What do you guys think about that?

SPEAKER_04 16:51

Do you do you think it might be because Christianity kind of has a bad rap, at least here in America? Like, where like if they're like, I don't want to look at Christianity because those people are fake, quote unquote, or they're not real, or they're they're they they're not spiritual. They're all they're all just uh boomers with a lot of money or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 17:11

Well, on to that point, actually, it's it makes it very interesting. Um, because when you look at the type of Christianity that most people are exposed to, it's either the charlatans who are going out and making people fall down with these, you know, miracle healing crusades, or it's it's so secularized that you really can't tell the difference between that form of Christianity or you know, um Tony Robbins. Yeah, where it's you know essentially self-help. And some people love it, and they see it purely as uh an ideology and a way of of living, um, not too different from the Mormons. And unfortunately, the Mormons do a better job of being more Christ-like in uh in their behavior than Christians do. So the I think the exposure that people have to Christianity makes it uh less appealing because it seems so hokey, you know. Um, and that's part of why I think uh the spread of orthodoxy in America is so important, yes, because it it finally puts something that you know is a lot more tangible, a lot more practical, and it is addressing what is spiritually lacking in um in many of these uh um circles where you're looking for the answer, you're looking for something spiritual, but the way that you're feeling the effects of what's spiritual is very physical, and you're looking for something that you can do to uh you know address what is you know is spiritually lacking in your life, and the Orthodox Church gives you the divine liturgy, right? And it gives you the sacraments, and it it requires of you to really, as it says, die to yourself daily and to carry your cross, but without feeling like it's it's something that you have to do on your own. And so people are looking for community, people are looking for spirituality because it's it's you know, we're made in the image of our creator, so the spiritual um uh draw is there, but people are gonna try to find an answer that you know doesn't cost them themselves, right? And I think that's why it's so important to read Paradise Lost, where Satan says it's better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven. Right. That mentality is is you know pretty American, you know what I mean? You know, I'd rather um I'd rather party with uh actually I think uh um I think it was Billy Joel who says it in Only the Good Die Young, something I'd rather laugh with the sinners than die with the saints, right? Uh it's it's become such a part of this, you know, um this culture that people want the spirituality that doesn't cost them themselves, right? That whole everyone wants to go to heaven, no one wants to die. Uh-huh. So how can I have my heaven where I don't have to die?

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Father Paul Truppenbach, sorry, Michael. Father Paul Trubenbach, he said recently, and I loved how he put it, he said, we as Christians, you know, we think when we in our best selves, we do love Christ and we love God and we want to know him. He says, but we often find out we love our sin more, right? We love ourselves more. And I think, James, in some ways that's kind of what you were poking at. I, Mario, kind of my answer to your question is yes, there is, I think, a perception of Christianity fueled by the televangelists and the charlatans on there. We see all the craziness online constantly. And thanks be to God for the witness and the vision or the uh voice of orthodoxy now. People can see a real contrast to the real church. But I've seen it in this conversation about Alex Reid's tarot. These people have come out and basically said, how can she become a Christian? Christians hate the gays, right? Christians hate LGBT, they're not allies. I hate to say it, even we as Orthodox, we can't wash our hands of the perception because we're part of this culture, right? We're part of this world. And let's face it, do we always do the best job of showing the love of Christ to those whom we disagree and to those whom we uh, you know, would ask for them? To have a change of heart, to have a change of lifestyle. I think that's a very difficult issue, Mario. And I do believe that that in the minds of some people is what they allow at the time to keep them from considering Christianity.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

Yeah, and I think all of that, the what you're talking about with tarot cards and and the that being kind of a response to people's image of Christianity, is fueling the growth of what they call spiritual, not religious. Yeah. Where people, as we've said, you know, we are inherently spiritual. There's a that part of us is very real. So people are naturally just going to seek that part of life out. Right. But religion, especially in the West, has gotten such a bad rap due to the charlatans and and this sort of thing, and also expressions of Christianity in the West that themselves have kind of relegated the spiritual aspect of it off to the side. And it's very intellectualized and that aspect is focused. So the spiritual, not religious movement is, I think, um the result of all of that, where people naturally have a desire to seek out spiritual things. Yes. But Christianity in the West is not providing them with the tools to do it. And so they're going to go find it somewhere else.

SPEAKER_03 23:24

That understanding of, you know, when people, even if they're atheists, their their great aunt dies, and they're like, well, now she's watching over us from heaven. You already want to believe in the cloud of witnesses that we have had for 2,000 years, right? You know, this idea that your ancestors are watching you and that they that they love you and that they intercede for you. It's there, it's in the church. Meditation, it's in the church, right? Um believing that things are sanctified and the earth is is sanctified. Kind of what pantheists are looking for, the incarnation also does something similar to the God out there who loves you. I think anybody can accept that, and anybody wants that. But the difficult thing is that when you encounter Christ, Christ says the most important thing is to love God and love your neighbor as yourself. And if you have no love for your neighbor, then the love of God is not in you. That's I think the big, the big um challenge.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:27

Where um people might be like, well, you almost had me, but that's too too big of a price because you know, there is no greater love than a man lay down his life for his friend.

SPEAKER_00 24:39

Amen.

SPEAKER_01 24:40

And I think something that you're touching on is that love is not just a feeling, which is kind of how people think of it today, I think. Love is an action. You know, like you said, no greater love than to lay down your life for your friends. I mean, that's what Christ did. His love was shown in his action. And likewise, to love God back is not just to have like some warm sentimental feeling towards God. There's action involved, there's things you actually have to do. Um, you know, whether it's prayer and fasting, you know, if you love me, obey my commandments. If you love me, do things. It's not just some some sentimental feeling. There's actually action that has to be accompanying that.

Love In Action Through The Church

SPEAKER_03 25:24

You know, and on that point, the because it just reminded me, one of the most difficult things that I struggled with in knowing that God loved me was if you're going through something difficult and you're, you know, and in the pit of your despair, you hoped that God would just come down from heaven and give you a hug, or the angels could just support you in the way that they supported Christ. And um that's part of that, you know, suffering and isolation problem of well, I try to, you know, God doesn't love me because God doesn't come to me in my in my time of need, but that's part of why you have to be connected to the church. You know, one of the things that again, my youth pastor who was a Protestant, he would always say to me that that still sticks with me, and it's still true, is that you know, the sheep that are closest to the shepherd are closer to each other in proximity as well. The closer you want to get to the shepherd, the more shoulders you're gonna rub and more elbows you're gonna rub an analogy with other, you know, believers who are also trying to be close to the shepherd. Yeah. And and that's where you're gonna experience the love of Christ most deeply and richly is how connected you are to your church. The church is the body of Christ. And if you want Christ to hug you, then come to the church where your brothers and sisters in Christ who carry the Eucharist will put their arm around you, will cry with you, will you give you, will greet you with a holy kiss, as the Bible says, you know, and we'll mourn with you, we'll grieve with you, we'll celebrate with you, we'll sing you many years, and we'll remember you when you're dead annually. Amen. You know? Um and who knows, maybe they'll petition for you to be a saint one day. But you you I can guarantee you will not experience that if you are isolated and if you are not connected to a church. So that's something that uh is is super important to me in this spiritual struggle of feeling sometimes alone and isolated. Is where is your mother? Your mother is in the church. Where are your brothers? Your brothers are in the church, where is your father? Your father is in the church. And if you want Christ to to you know be physically present with you, you need to be physically present in the church. Amen.

Find A Parish And Closing Encouragement

SPEAKER_00 27:56

I think that's a wonderful note to end this conversation on. Um you guys good? Is there anything someone's burning to say something in the at the end here? Great. Uh thank you for listening this long. This has been a discussion on spiritual warfare. Um just to reiterate, obviously none of us are clergy. Uh, you know, we're all laymen in the Orthodox Church. Thanks be to God. Um, if you have questions about the this type of thing, um find an Orthodox church near you today, right? Go talk to a priest. Um they can provide the guidance and the uh spiritual wisdom that we are only really we're the we've we're benefactors, right? We've benefited ourselves from that spiritual guidance. So we're just giving a taste of what we've learned in our lives as Orthodox Christians. Um and so we would just encourage you to um take that one step further to go find an Orthodox Church. Um, thank you for listening, Michael, James St. Simon, Mario, Andrew. As always, we'll see you guys in the next one. Bye-bye. Look at that. You stuck around to the end. Thank you so much. We hope that this was edifying. We hope that you enjoyed this content. Please share with friends and family. And most importantly, beyond your prayers, go over to our Patreon, search Cloud of Witnesses at Patreon. It is the best way to support this ministry. It helps us keep the cameras on, this monthly licenses paid for, and the lights still burning. So thanks be to God. We're glad you're here. We hope to see you on the next episode. God bless you. Bye bye.