Ep. 15 This Isn't Your Typical Valentine's Day Talk

Forget the roses; let’s talk receipts. We pulled back the curtain on dating myths, situationships, and the quiet power of choosing peace over being “picked.” With Laura and Sara at the mic, we cover the hard stuff: the “Hallmark holiday” trap, gifts that miss the point, performative relationships that look perfect online but crumble in private, and why feeling seen beats any grand gesture. The conversation moves from laugh-out-loud icks to deeply honest reflections on boundaries, self-worth, and what healthy love actually looks like when the filters come off.

Takeaways

• Women are done babysitting men who need therapy.
• Valentine's Day can reveal relationship truths.
• Gifts should reflect thoughtfulness, not price.
• Situationships often stem from self-worth issues.
• Delusional dating beliefs can lead to unhealthy patterns.
• Red flags are often ignored due to emotional attachment.
• Self-awareness is key in modern dating.
• Social media can create unrealistic relationship expectations.

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Host:
Lisa

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Transcript

Love, Delusion, And Setting The Tone

SPEAKER_05 0:18

Hey everyone, this is Lisa with Mom is My Emergency Contact Podcast. All right, Valentine's Day just passed, which means some of you got roses, some of you got reservations, and some of you got a you up text from a man who still doesn't know your last name or your first name. So love is in the air, and so is delusion or deluleus, a lot of my friends like to say. So today we're cleaning house. I've got two incredible women joining me to talk about dating, love, situationships, emotional unavailability, and why grown women are finally done babysitting men who need therapy, not girlfriends. We're talking red flags. We used to call potential green flags. We ignored because they felt boring. And the uncomfortable truth that sometimes we weren't ready. We were just fucking lonely. This is not a soft episode, ladies. This is a grown woman debrief. Because we are not auditioning, we are not convincing, and we are definitely, definitely not explaining basic respect anymore. So, ladies, welcome to Mom is my emergency contact podcast, real conversations, no filter. Welcome, Laura and Sarah. Welcome, ladies. Um, so Sarah, you and I have spoken before in the past on the ELAGO podcast about running and having your first marathon. Laura, you're you're new to the ELAGO familia. Um, but you want to say anything about yourselves? Oh, Sarah, you're gonna go first.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

I am. Oh, well, as a follow-up, the zero to marathon, I did it. And I'm looking at you again. So there we go. Crazy. So there's a follow-up two years later. I did it. Thanks to this lovely.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

Uh and she's trying to get everyone else to do it.

SPEAKER_03 2:19

Laura.

SPEAKER_05 2:20

Laura, go ahead, introduce yourself.

SPEAKER_03 2:22

Uh, well, I am Sarah's millennial friend uh slash uh little sister. Um we have been friends for a decade.

unknown 2:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:35

Um, we discovered that the other day, I think, and we've done theater together for the last decade, and um, we both kind of found each other at a time in our lives where we were going through transitions. I had recently lost my dad, she had recently lost her dad. Um, and we sort of bonded over that, and she's she's she's family. She's she's my family. Like there are people on on social media who have just recently discovered that we're not blood sisters. So I always think it's funny. She's like, oh yeah, I love her and her sister. And friends, close friends of ours will be like, What? Yeah, no, they're not sisters. Now they just call each other that.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

So my mother considers her a daughter.

SPEAKER_03 3:18

Like, I love that. For mom, you know, I've I've gone through Sarah, I've gone through Sarah's, I I've I've been through the journey of her kissing a lot of frogs.

unknown 3:29

Oh God. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 3:31

With that being said, okay, let's get into it.

SPEAKER_05 3:35

Let's segue into the first question. So, one of the topics that I wanted to talk about was the absolute worst Valentine's Day experience. And have you had any? Um, I mean, I could say for myself, I wouldn't say I've had the worst, but I've had like an odd one where, you know, I gave him, we're just dating, I brought him a little something like chocolates because we're still new. And he didn't bring me anything. And he was like, Oh, we're doing that. And then I had to pay for his movie ticket when we went to the movies. By the way, this was when I was very young and dumb. And I said, Wow, I will never do that again. So, for the both of you, do you have like an absolute worst Valentine's Day experience?

SPEAKER_01 4:20

I I, you know, I'm thinking about this, and I I not like a thing that went wrong, but like, you know, the situation after with some reflection, you're like, oh wow. Like, you know, I've had the the Valentine's where it's like these dramatic, you know, whatever romantic gesture, whatever, but like, you know, the actual relationship itself was like, right? Right. So like and then, you know, I've um I've had the whole like I don't believe in Hallmark holidays, you know, kind of thing. And you're like, oh, you're right. I don't need that to justify. But you're also an excuse, right? Um, I'm I'm I'm gonna come out, I'm in a healthy relationship right now. And you know what? Like for me, it realizing like it's a it's a simple. We're gonna like cook dinner and watch the Olympics and rot because we both are stressed out and need to chill. And that means more than any like get gussied up and go out. So not not like a bad, horrible, like whatever, but just like you know, you realize Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

Laura? So Lisa, you and I have touched on this a little bit in private conversations and and Sarah knows a lot of this too.

Gifts, Effort, And Feeling Seen

SPEAKER_03 5:37

Um, I have I I like to say I have a very strange dating history because for a very long time throughout my entire childhood, I was parentified by my mom. So I would say more often than not, Valentine's were spent with her, making her feel like it was it was about her. So if anyone who's listening to this podcast has has read Jeanette McCurdy's book, I'm glad my mother, my mom died, that relationship mirrors very much my relationship with my mom. Damn. She's so if I can say I had a a bad Valentine's, they were all with her.

SPEAKER_05 6:23

I mean Congratulations! Very deep. Very, very deep. Okay, maybe that's another episode. Um, all right. Well, let me ask you guys this. Would you rather be ghosted before Valentine's Day or get the lazy YWD text at 1045?

SPEAKER_02 6:39

Ghosted. 100%. 100% please.

SPEAKER_05 6:46

I feel the same. Okay. Yeah. All right. Okay, let's talk about the gift hall of shame. Okay. And, you know, when we think about Valentine's Day, you know, that's the flowers, it's the jewelry for some of us. And if it's not a Valentine's Day, maybe just like an anniversary, or maybe a gift that a guy gave you if it's not on Valentine's Day, but it can even be like, you know, have you ever gotten a gas station gift? You know, a re-gifted jewelry, or maybe no gift like I did, um, or the I don't believe a Valentine's Day situation. So could you ever recall getting something that you're just like, oh, a pen? Wow, thanks.

SPEAKER_00 7:28

I remember getting something, and I'm gonna be very careful how I answered it, because in case, you know, Sarah and I are part of a very small community, and I just, you know, I I remember receiving something and it wasn't I guess it wasn't what I like wanted.

SPEAKER_03 7:50

Um, and I kind of thought that it was there wasn't a lot of thought put into it. So that's what bothered me that I thought there wasn't a lot of thought put into it. And I was like, and I made a joke and said, Oh, that's it, because that was a joke that this person would make, you know, oh, that's that's that's it. And so I did that, and I think probably that hurt that person. And also I felt like there wasn't a whole lot of effort put into it. And I think it was, you know, a time again when you know, men mature slower than women do, women mature faster. Um, so I actually want to take a little responsibility for that. That I think my reaction could have been better because I think he was coming up to his own the capacity that he had. And you know, it just it it at the end of the day that that relationship was better as friends than it was, you know, lovers.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

So I think for me, I think there was a little bit of both of us could have been not bet our not our best selves. So and I'll leave it at that because I do wanna, I wanna in this part I want to remain as respectful as possible. Oh, you're so sweet.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Sarah, you all right, to protect the innocent, kind of along the same lines, but uh have you ever got one of those gifts where it's like I got for you an insert name of the person's favorite band movie, and you're like I hate nickelback or whatever, right? Like I just oh thanks for what and you're like, oh thanks. Wow, I'm so excited that we're going to go see. I keep saying nick, sorry if you're fans if people are fans.

SPEAKER_05 9:38

Wait, hold on.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

So this was a gift that was giving him that was like for a band that I did not like, and this individual knew but he liked it, yeah. Oh, hell no. And you then you're like, am I the in because you know I like to gaslight myself. I'm like, I'm so ungrateful, right? Like, but after a couple years, like five years later, I'm like, that was really shitty. I'll be in the shower, you know, and I'll be like, remember that time? That sucks. So now I see it sucks, but process what I was feeling. Like, why do I feel like this is wrong?

SPEAKER_03 10:11

The gaslighting, the gaslighting we do to ourselves. That that's a that's a show in and in and of itself, and the drama that comes from that of that we have gas of gaslighting ourselves. And when you're even questioning other people gaslighting you, or you're like, oh my god, maybe it is me. It's poof, poof. Yeah.

Performative Relationships And Social Media Ick

SPEAKER_05 10:33

You know, I do love what Laura said because it's is it more about effort than the price, right? And it's it's more of like they did something. Like I always said, look, I'm not looking for you to give me a Tiffany's ring. However, if you want to, by all means, you can. But you know, hey, you know, a nice picnic? Like that's thoughtfulness. Like, you know, you made the food and you're sitting in the nice, you know, nice area, and it's just romantic. Like that requires effort, and of course, you're just gonna be like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

You want to feel known and seen, I think.

SPEAKER_03 11:07

Like that's right, like okay, Sarah, you just said something. We want to be known and seen. And there is a beautiful movie, and I've I've seen the clip, and I I cannot recall the movie, but it's a Suits and Strand and movie where basically she explains to the the her partner in the scene, you know, oh, why do people want to pair up? Why do they want to be? It's oh, is it for love? It's for this, is that she says, No, it is because we want to be seen. We want a witness on our journey. We want someone to know us. We want that at the end of our life, someone knew us, we existed, we were seen and known for ourselves on our journey. And I think that is that is the biggest crux. It's like it you can get me a a a ring pop. And if it's because you remembered that, oh, that was a memory that we went to the movies together, we had this like like if there's a memory tied to it, I don't care if you spent three dollars, thirty dollars, or thirty thousand, I don't care. Don't spend thirty thousand dollars, that's ridiculous, but I am not that girl. But it's like, well, I mean, if you want to, the but it's about what's attached to it. Um I've you know, have partners in the past, uh a previous partner, you know. I was frustrated that they did not plan. Like I felt like I was always the one taking charge and planning, and I so desperately wanted that person to know me enough to be like, oh, she would like a surprise party, or she would like this, or she would like that.

Situationships, Labels, And Honest asks

SPEAKER_05 12:46

You know, Laura, I I was saying this, and I don't know where I was saying this. I think it was in my Facebook group, and I said that um one thing I I do admire or love about you is that you're definitely an old soul because this is why I'm saying this. Most that I see on the Facebook social media of women in your age group, they want the hint look and the flowers and this and that, and not all, but you have such a a way of like you're really looking for is this deep and uh meaningful relationship and not surface level. And I feel like there's so much of the surface level. So, you guys have anything to say about that? And I don't want to say it's just a generational thing, but I see a lot of that, like like right now, I'm gonna tell you, we're all gonna see like we're we're taping on Valentine's Day, so we know we're gonna see all the, hey, the flowers and all the things. We're gonna see that, right? Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

And we're just gonna be like I just I mean, my question is, do you do you you know, I'm old, I'm older than Laura. So I, you know, a dozen years on her, but like maybe I I feel like I had to go through those shallow phases to really uh to get to the like the world sets you up for what you think you're gonna want. And you know, movies and I mean we're all these romantics, right? Like we're obsessed with when Harry met Sally. Like we're just whole right, like but it it there's a there leaves a there's a void that's left. And I think you reach a certain point where you realize you know, it's that wisdom. Do you do you have to go through all the superficial whatever to get to that contentment, that true internal movement?

SPEAKER_03 14:38

I don't know. I think it's a different journey for everybody. Like, I think there was a time when I was like, I I think society and social media has really told women this is what this is what love looks like, this is what love means, the the this type of gesture, that type of if he's not doing this by this marker, this marker, all these markers. And it's like we're all on our own journey. It is not a well, in five years that's this. In five years, I remember being with, you know, a partner and we were, you know, approaching a five-year mark, and people were like, Oh, when's he gonna propose? And we kept getting all those questions. And that just was something that I don't think I think I wanted because of what it meant, not because it was right. And I had to go through that journey and have a lot of hurts happen and have a lot of things that happened after that relationship ended, of you know, you know, losing um discovering things, discovering things about myself, um, losing friendships because I stopped uh using alcohol as a means to cope with uh a lot of neurodivergence that I found out that I have, um, and discovering what I really want. And I think it's it's societal pressures and social media that tells, I'm gonna say women, what well, this is what you should be doing at this age, and this is what your love life should look like, and all these markers that I think are just there trying to put us in a box of society, and it is really the individual journey, it's not about that. And I you we'll see on social media, oh, oh, he got me flowers, oh this, oh that. And I have come to find in the last few years between my last relationship and now just this journey of discovering myself is that all is not gold that glitters. So many of these posts, uh-huh. These posts that are put on social media, the the grand gesture, oh, he made dinner, oh I got flowers, oh look at this piece of jewelry, all these things, and the relationship behind the screen in in shreds. 100%. And I I really do think that it's that it's performative.

SPEAKER_02 17:07

I have to isn't that exhausting? That's good, right?

Standards, Values, And Non-Performative Goodness

SPEAKER_03 17:11

Like yes, yes, it's like it's it's it's performative, and and and I think that's across the board, performative of my real performative relationships uh for social media. Um, something that's a pet peeve of mine, performative vulnerability on social media. When over share it's like vague book. It's the same thing as vague books. Hashtag less or hashtag, you know, I'm sharing something that's super vulnerable, but it's really because I am trying to send a subliminal message to a few people or have people reach out, are you okay? What's because it is truly it's it's for the attention that they are going to get. So I'm yeah such a I have such I I get the heebie jeebies when people overshare on social media performative vulnerability in order to gain attention or followers, or if you know it's the you know for whatever maybe monetary reason, but they are trying to get clicks. Yeah. Like, and it's performative, and I'm just like it's yeah, it just grosses me out. It's just, it just, it's just it, it gives me the ick.

SPEAKER_05 18:26

Yeah, that's that's so man, you dropped a big one there, and we're actually gonna be talking about that um with another gentleman who has a huge following. I'm gonna say close to a million, and he is gonna talk about how exactly what you said, Laura, and how that even impacts relationships when you see the account, the Instagram or TikTok account is a husband or wife or boyfriend and girlfriend, and how much that puts the pressure on the relationship. So wait for that. So, Laura, you were dropping major, major bombs there, okay, or gems as we like to say. All right, let's move on to situationships. Okay, so you know, back in the day we didn't have, I mean, I don't remember it being called situationships. Maybe it was like friends with benefits, or oh, we don't put a label on what we have. So, you know, we think about like why do we do situationships? At what point does it from what at what point does it go from let's see where it goes to be self-sabotage? And yeah, you know, what do you guys have to say about that?

SPEAKER_01 19:38

I think it goes back to to to something Laura said earlier about you know having authentic conversations and like instead like in the and Laura through my frog history, whatever, she like I I would go to her what does this mean? Why instead of like having that conversation with the person, and it's something I'm definitely aware of now, um, but like it's it's I I I think the times I have been in situationships, it's it's because I built the story in my head. I talked it up with my good friend Laura, and um, you know, it all but here's the thing if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, why isn't it a duck? Like if we're do you know what I mean? Like it's such a weird, you know, there's I'm talking to someone, is not dating someone. I just like kind of am learning. Like, Laura, yeah. Do you do you like there's there's now other levels to before it would be like I got on a couple dates and now we're dating and like that was it, right? And then you get gay and get married. Now there's like you're talking to someone and then like hanging out with someone, and then like seeing someone, and then you have like conversations, are we dating? And then we're like exclusive, like it's so complicated.

SPEAKER_03 20:59

And there are much more intricate levels in it, and I will say some of the situationships that I have found because I've I've had my fair share over the years, mainly when I was younger, you know. But it's but you I always came at it from a place of if you wanted more, like for me, I I'm a recovery people pleaser, and I know that in certain situations, in the situationship, I was taking what I could get because I didn't think that person would give me any more. And that says something about how I was feeling about my self-worth. That I didn't think I A deserved more or didn't have the confidence to ask for more because I was so afraid of the the answer would not be what I wanted. Um, and that's something that comes from I think um time and age and experience.

Delusional Beliefs: Pick-Me Patterns And Identity

SPEAKER_01 21:56

You also think that it's that that we enter conscious situationships in like it sometimes there's a place for that where like I don't want more right and this fits into my it's a choice and like I you know and and I've been there too and that's that you know I think that's cool when you've like acknowledged it and and just say like this is this is for now this is this is cool for now um it's just I don't know it's like there's these these two sides to situationships where like one person creates it in their head and that's when it can get done and that's usually where I've fallen yeah I think so I think you know you're both uh absolutely obviously there is definitely levels to this but I I think that for sure you have to have that conversation and a woman let's be honest a woman can choose to be like I don't want any more from him and I don't have any expectations if he ends up like moving forward to date a woman that he wants to be in a relationship hey you know and I can honestly say that I was in a situation where I absolutely wanted nothing and he did and he dumped me because he wanted to be in a relationship I what was I gonna say about it you know it's like with yourself like that's instead of you know that's cool like it is what it is but I think you guys are hitting it uh on the nail where you have this situation where women have these assumptions I'm gonna just see where it goes I really do want him I do want to be in a relationship but you know I'm just gonna see and then when he ends up ending it or dating other people then you're like oh my god why did that happen?

SPEAKER_03 23:48

And then we all have to hate him and then we all have to hate you didn't ask for what you want and you and and it's tough because sometimes you have to be you have to force yourself do it scared force yourself to be brave enough to have the conversation and if you do get rejected at least you know where you stand. That is my thing now tell me where I stand. If nothing else I if you say this is all you want, right, at least I know where I stand. Interesting over the last few years that I have been single I have had you know a number of gentlemen uh reach out and and they wanted more and I kept it at the talking stage because I'm like I now am in this place where I'm like I need it to be at a snail's pace where I'm like I need to get to know you. Do we have things in common that are more like more than just well oh you like Disney Plus I like Disney Plus too oh you like that movie I like that oh you like going to universal like oh you like this band no I need to know what is your position on politics where do you stand um with you know what is your religion or non-religion like what what what values do our our values our goals our our principles have to match up that has now become the thing that I need I need to know that you at your core are a good person. I need to know that and not a performatively good person. I'm I have been with people men who are performatively good and it's like they'll make the post on social media they'll say this but behind closed doors I'm like well that doesn't really match what you've put on social media that's so interesting. Oh wow oh that's that's interesting and it's like when it doesn't sit right in here I no it doesn't work for me so it's it's very and and and there are those men and I they that they just want to be in a relationship they just want to have a girlfriend and I'm like I'm not there anymore.

Red Flags, Self-Gaslighting, And Boundaries

SPEAKER_05 25:54

I don't just want a boyfriend I just want to be married I just want to bring on my bingo I need the wedding I've been in enough weddings I've lived vicariously through the bride and that experience I'm good I'm good no I need to know that you are a good human being be a good human it takes it literally costs zero to be a decent human I love that um and here I am can he just have a job and not be insane um but anyways you know a job a job is good jokes jokes jokes okay let's talk about delusional like I I think you know the three of us have spoken about this and these are delusional dating beliefs we once had and what we once had okay so this is like we you know a lot of both of you have talked about this self-awareness and you know where you are right now with your life and you're no longer there so you know here's some of the delusional dating beliefs that we once had maybe not the three of us but that are still out there uh if we slept together we're exclusive if I'm patient he'll change if he's jealous he's jealous he must care about me if I show him I'm different he'll choose me and chemistry means compatibility so what are your thoughts what are your thoughts about these delusion delusional dating beliefs or what are some of the ones that you want to share?

SPEAKER_01 27:24

Can I just I just read the greatest thing ever I think I may have shared it in a meme to you if not it's coming um it the the the pick me girl thing here's the thing this this the egg doesn't chase the sperm girls that's true that's I don't know why that hit me but I'm like that is you know what guilty I definitely uh and I was old enough to know but you know I was older 35 I should have known better but I I uh uh you know oh if I'm if I'm malleable if I confirm what's the word I'm thinking you're down for anything I'm I'm easy I'm I'm so I mean it's cool to experience thing and want to learn what your partner likes or you know okay I'm open to going to XYZ but ugh there's so many times and I'm like embarrassed that at 35 to to now you know I've I've changed it not in being open to experiencing new things but like I've been like taking on that partner's identity in order to be uh to fit better in the relationship. Ooh I don't think I've said that out loud ever but like seen it um but yeah that's you know and I don't know why we we don't feel like we're enough as we are we could be supportive but we don't need to change our identity to fit with someone's life if you do not fit like it's just not it's not gonna work without major conversation and I heard this once on a on a sitcom that I enjoy uh it was if if the shoe don't fit that's not your shoe but and and I can say I have having experienced my sissy going through uh you know quite you know a few Chris kissing a few frogs before finding her prince um yeah I saw that I saw her make excuses for these gentlemen and and and and and kind of like almost covering for their behavior like oh well you know this is going on so this is why he's doing this and this is not why we're not doing this this is well I I know he's got a lot going on with X Y and Z.

Dating Lessons, Peace In Singleness, Healthy Love

SPEAKER_03 29:39

So we need so and it was always like kind of her like um covering for them and sort of like making excuses for their bad behavior and in my head I was like okay okay I'm gonna just you know may maybe that's what it is this person is going through he is going through a lot in you know X, Y, and Z. But I was like, she's she's making a lot of excuses for him now and I'm like not loving that that this is the way he's treating her and yeah I just feel like yeah I have I I have seen that and and and and I too am I guilty of the you know if I play it cool if I'm chill like it'll just it's it's this the trope of oh I'm chill I don't care you know what um there's a song I'm gonna reference Taylor Swift the song on her latest album Eldest Eldest Daughter where it's like everyone's so punk on the internet it's everyone's unbothered till they're not you know apathy is made cool like apathy is cool kindness is not what is wrong with being kind what is wrong with being personal what is wrong with saying this is what I want and if you can't give it to me that's okay at least we know that now and we can move on but too many times women I think spend too much time trying to I can fix him I can change him he just needs to get out of this phase grow out of this I just need to be better about this I did it myself I just need to find the thing that's missing here I need to fix it. If I fix this then we'll be better I just need to be better about this so it's it's really about uh I think remembering that you even if you were not told you were worth anything growing up you still are you still have that worth to say this is what I want and if this is not working for me. It doesn't have to be some blowout fight of I hate you when you're no it's just this isn't working for me. I don't think it's working for you either. And I think too many people they get mired down with but we've been together for X amount of years and what are people gonna say when we're not together anymore I went through that. I went through that and having people you know I was I you know I like to keep you know that stuff private because you know people are just looking for the drama they they oh what's the T and it's you know what relationships end and it's okay there is just one person for you.

SPEAKER_05 32:12

Oh we were just we were fed that story our whole lives by society by social media by pop culture by uh other generations oh back in the day people didn't get divorced well back in the day women were have their own bank accounts so um yeah they were they were vacuuming high because they couldn't leave their horrible husbands so like we all had coke in it we needed it man we you know they were drinking that Coca-Cola with real Coke in it yes the delusional I I will say two things um and both of you touched upon it is the minimizing ourselves uh to fit in like I'm I'm like I'm a circle and I'm trying to fit into a square it doesn't fucking work um but I remember somebody who was very he said he liked natural looking girls and I'm like okay okay well you know he didn't do the makeup thing and or he was into that or like going out once in a while and I was like okay and I'm like I wasn't sure what that meant so when I first met him I had sneakers and like because I mean it was it was like an outdoor uh date and then after a while I'm like no this is not me I do like to wear makeup I'm not like wearing a ton of it and I do not wear makeup sometimes but I do want to go out I mean do you own a a pair of pants? Do you own a nice suit I mean I I do like to be taken out and there's nothing wrong with that and I remember saying no this is not working.

Speed Round: Ick Or Not

SPEAKER_03 33:51

And then the other thing of delusion is that I used to think and this took a while is that you had to be uh absolutely gorgeous and skinny to have a boyfriend until I started watching the bachelor and I'm like they're so beautiful and they have amazing bodies why are they still single and I realized that's you can get uh you can get laid that way but that doesn't mean they're gonna stay and that's you know that was my delusional thinking which I think there's still women thinking if I look like this if I get the boob job if I get the fillers I'm and and my lips all up like that you know I am going to you know catch him and how many women do you see out there on social media looking absolutely gorgeous and they're single yeah and you know and Lisa that kind of comes back to like I I think you mentioned it the pick me girl syndrome yeah it's I'm gonna do everything I can to raise the percentage raise the standard raise the the percentage that you will pick me but I'm skinny now why aren't you picking me but I've changed for you why aren't you picking me and the pick me girls I feel so I used to I was one I definitely had that especially in my teenage years and early 20s it was like why don't they why don't I get that you know especially I was a teenager and then when I started getting in my 20s suddenly the men started wanting to pick me and I didn't know how to deal with it. I was like this okay I don't understand now what do you mean you didn't like me before why do you like me now I don't understand um so it was very odd and and I not growing up I very I think I have been very naive I had a very naive kind of childhood. I didn't have the preparation that I needed for you know dating in the real world um and the pick me girls that are like oh if I am skinny if I am you know if I do this for him if I do that for him if I you know play it cool if I'm this um you know you'll pick me it's I mean we were fed this on you know Gray's anatomy has the famous pick me scene pick me choose me love me and we all fell for it because we're like McDreamy and Meredith they need to be together and now I look back at that scene and I have seen Ellen Pompeo be interviewed we all look back on that scene with cringe it's like you know what if you want to pick her go for it exactly yes absolutely um so with that we're gonna segue I know lots of that um red flags we ignored or still ignored um so you know when we think about what red flags and you know I mean we think about them after the relationship and we're like what the fuck right so like the red flags that you ignored because you liked him and why did we rationalize inconsistencies right and is he he being busy the new emotional unavailable and why do we warn our friends but not ourselves like why do we say hey yeah that's that doesn't look good but then when it's us we're just like oh no he's just you know we're making excuses and is potential the most dangerous word in dating he's got potential right and then just one more thing because this is something maybe from a generational perspective he's mysterious oh he's mysterious uh it's a good chance he's manipulative so what is your take on these red flags oh I have so many I mean it I think the guy needs to be is in in an equivalent state of healing from whatever their shit was when you enter that relationship entering the relationship to fix the shit is not the other person's responsibility we can be understanding about it but like I can't believe I ignored you know we've been separated for two months yeah I did that um and you know what but I had been divorced for years so I was in like an okay and I'm like no I understand I remember that time you wait eight years out of a divorce versus two months just figuring out is like not but you know um in the the you it takes a while to sort out that like you know I'm I was at a different space in my journey and and and knowing what I want and and that individual was kind of discovering and still had to work through a lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

But it goes back to the conversation we had earlier but like oh yeah I the person needs to be coming at the relationship with like an emotional awareness that's equivalent and healing that's equivalent to where I'm at. I I will never ignore that red flag again. I just my best please Laura please Lisa do not let me ever ignore that I I it's the worst could have saved me years.

Closing Rant, Takeaways, And CTA

SPEAKER_03 39:20

Laura I feel like um yeah the red flags are interesting because you know I've I've had some red flags for certainly from a friend I've had some red flags for them. I you know what I think this goes back to something I kind of mentioned earlier and Lisa you mentioned earlier where you gaslight yourself and it's like that's not a red flag it's pink throw it um uh right it's like that's not red that's pink and that's my favorite color so it's you and you gaslight yourself into believing like I grew up in a household where um it was very judgmental and I thought I don't want to be judgmental. So I don't know what you don't know what that person's going through. Maybe they're just not ready to share yet they're not ready um I just and and maybe they need a little more understanding and more grace. And it's like sure there's a there's room for that but also there comes a time where it's like no that behavior is not okay. That's that's not okay. And if the guy's mysterious um what's he hiding? You know I used I used to think oh tall dark handsome mysterious because I grew up watching classic films and I thought that you know Cary Grant playing a you know spy was oh he's mysterious and oh he's so handsome and oh my god like I romanticized it I romanticized red flags wanted to share one of the my red flags was uh social media I had one guy said to me that he didn't like that when I liked a person's comment because on TikTok the only way you can the only like button you have is a heart and he said you are hearting them.

SPEAKER_05 41:20

And I said it's liking the post and I should have seen that as a red flag but I didn't and I'm like oh he likes me and he liked me to that's another story.

SPEAKER_01 41:33

Anyway that like what creeps me out is that he was not just what you were posting but that like he was going and look at what you like that was sketchy.

SPEAKER_05 41:44

Yeah majorly sketchy majorly well you know we live and learn right okay let's go to one of our final well our final segment which is what dating taught us about ourselves you know what did dating reveal about you know your attachment style you know now people are talking about their attachment style what standard will you never lower again I know Sarah mentioned a couple of them and did dating make you stronger or more cautious and is being single now more peaceful than past relationships and what does healthy love actually look like to you now so many topics there.

SPEAKER_03 42:28

I I can say I am much more peaceful as a single person. I'm I I recently so I think I told I don't know if I told Sarah this I think I told Sarah this but I recently made a profile and hinge I have been like anti anti-online dating like I'm like I want it to be organic I want us to meet like bump into each other at a coffee shop or like whatever like it's like a meet cute that way. So I made the profile and I promptly forgot about it and the the the literally the date the app offloaded my phone on my phone it offloaded from my phone because it's like it now says download because I haven't looked at it and I that kind of told me something about myself I'm like I don't think I really I'm not interested I don't care that told me something about myself I was like I got as much dopamine out of it as I thought I would which was making the profile I did it and now I'm like oh just out there you know whatever I feel bad if anybody has swiped and I've ignored them I'm if anyone's out there listening to this I'm not ignoring but I've realized that I I'm I'm starting to become really okay with me and I really love having girl dates and those female friendships. I would rather spend a Galentine's day with my girls with my with my besties

SPEAKER_01 44:00

uh I have you know had the you know Valentine's date when I was in a relationship and uh but but with my girls that feels so fulfilling I love that Laura I I absolutely love that um I love that for you um Sarah Sarah what are your thoughts so I you know uh it did teach me dating taught me a lot and it was um the number one thing is like romanticize your life now do not wait for someone else to be now buy yourself damn flowers make yourself a nice meal and sit and enjoy it you know fill your cup and and I think part of what helped me get there and was so key was was the running honestly it was taking that time being dependent on myself um in a in a wonderful group but but like you know it really is a self thing having that time to myself alone with my thoughts um relying on myself that built the confidence to know that I was okay on my own and and and to grow to grow that confidence and I think you know now I've been in a relationship for for over a year and and um it feels peaceful I don't stress about every text I am my weird unhinged self and he's not running out the door yet I know um but and but it just feels peaceful um you know when I'm I'm um I feel like I'm with someone who sees me and um who's peeled back the layers and and who I love peeling back the layers and learning about him. There's curiosity there's conversation and I don't think you know I don't think it was on the other person in my past dating history. I think it was me shitting all over and what things were supposed to be bicext deadline. And the second you know life kicked you in the rump and I I had to take 10 years to learn that I wouldn't I wouldn't trade it for a thing. I'm I'm so grateful for that. So um you know I I think women out there dating like you know what I love about watching Laura's journey over these years is is finding her voice, finding her peace and and owning who she is and and that's such a beautiful thing. And you know what when she wants that and when it and she's ready that that she'll be open for that person to come into her life. I'm I'm convinced of it and and I think that's what we need for ourselves of just to to take care of ourselves so we're open for that should we want it and it fit into our lives.

SPEAKER_05 46:50

So yeah yeah no that makes that makes a lot of lot of sense it yeah I've got to say for me I'm definitely on the line of Laura um you know being 51 years old um I don't want to date I don't I'm actually very content being on my own I'm it took me a while to get there. It took me a while to be at peace and saying because there's a difference between and I think this is where women get caught up there's a difference between feeling alone and lonely that loneliness feeling and just being like yeah I'm good on my own you know and I think for me I'm so at peace with that. And I have to say every time someone says go on the dating apps, my body tells me no I even made that almost that the profile almost in in like in a revenge way and and I don't mean that against someone more like a you know what fine everyone's telling me I'm just gonna do it.

SPEAKER_03 47:50

It was like almost indignant and I was like fine I'm doing it and then I was like oh God that was exhausting and then I was like okay I'll look at it again but I'm not exhausted and turns out I never looked at it yeah it just and you know and it's that's okay. So yeah I want to just touch on uh is that I think too through the whole journey of discovering myself and and and who I am and and what I really want and how that's changed and evolved over the years I think we also have to be self-aware enough to look at the part we've played in our own unhappiness and the things we've allowed the red flags we have ignored the the you know you know desperately when you desperately want someone to to want you and you're you're you're you're fitting yourself into all these little boxes and you're playing it cool and you're doing all these things and the person is telling you they're telling you without telling you that all of their actions are speaking far louder than their words they don't want you. But we what we've oh if I do this I change this I change that it's like no this person does not want you and the healthiest thing you can do is recognize the part you've played in your own unhappiness by trying to make that person want you they don't want you he's just all that into you and I don't and I don't care if you've met with that person for two weeks two months two years 20 years guess what things change relationships change they evolve and that is okay we don't have to constantly be like no things can't change I I listen I'm not great with change in the sense that because of my little ADHD brain I need transition time hell I need transition time to go from the car to the grocery store to deal with like all the people that are gonna be in the grocery store. So we need that transition time you know in and out of relationships but recognize your own part in this by saying yeah I ignored those red flags I gaslit myself I I pretended that person was something that they weren't because I was banking on their potential instead of their actual person they are right now.

SPEAKER_01 50:10

The most powerful part of the journey like that self-reflection is like recognizing yourself.

SPEAKER_03 50:15

Yeah recognize that is one of the most healing phrases I have learned through therapy just recognizing the part you've played in your own unhappiness.

SPEAKER_05 50:26

Own it there's a strength in owning it I I also want to mention that the interesting thing about this conversation is that the three of us is we're all in different age groups number one and number two we're all bringing different perspectives you know Laura never married don't have kids Sarah been divorced don't have kids me been divorced have kids so I just love that this conversation I yeah you know we're gonna learn from um our mistakes and and choose what we want to choose and I I have to say you know I think we need to change the narrative of what it looks like right okay wait can you see this Laura oh I thought she was getting it okay go literally got me this it's an Ann Shirley quote that I keep can you read it is it Tomorrow is always fresh with no mistakes in it oh I love that it is from uh Anakin Gables one of my uh books and movies and yeah and I think that you can always look at the next day as like it's every day is a fresh start. We're gonna have a uh what do you call it a speed round okay it or not okay there's no explanation it's just is it ick or is it not okay he says females ick yeah ick okay he calls his ex crazy ick ick red flag ick nope not okay he lives with his parents at 40 not there they're no we're not allowed to explain no explanation ick or not no with context Laura with no with context yeah okay all right um gin selfies every day yeah oh yeah ick um only text after 10 p.m says i don't do labels um wants to split the bill but ordered the steak eck sorry sorry um did i get a steak did i get a steak too i'm laughing says i'm just bad at texting you live with this in your hand you're you're bad at communication then oh here's a good one has no close male friends okay um says you're not like other girls ew don't come sorry he said sorry sorry about the explanation he said that to other ones too yeah exactly he's saying that to you and everybody else um says I don't need therapy run oh my god okay ladies I loved this conversation um you know obviously we all come from different pots of the world um from our experiences but let's be clear if Valentine's Day triggered you good that means you're paying attention and here's what not to do in 2026 we're not romanticizing chaos we're not mistaking inconsistency for mystery we're not lowering standards because someone is nice sometimes if he's confused let him be confused if he's inconsistent let him be inconsistent somewhere else dating is not about being picked it's about being protective by yourself and if staying staying single means staying peaceful that's not losing that's actually leveling the fuck up to my amazing guests thank you for keeping it real and fearless and to everyone else stop negotiating your worth we're not bitter we're not jaded we're just being informed ladies thank you so much thank you so much for being a part of this I really appreciate you this was so much fun oh Lisa did we did we wear you out to where you're like oh can't do those two again oh no we're doing it again so if you if you love this episode we we plan to do more of this we all we have we have a lot of these sidebar conversations um and I would this is the reason why I was like okay we got to do a freaking podcast so you know that's why you're here so yes we will be doing this on other topics that you guys both brought up um so this is mom is my emergency contact podcast real conversations no filter you can listen to the podcast on Spotify Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your shows if something from this episode stayed with you share it share it on the after hours reflections on Substack the thoughts that didn't make it into the recording and what lingered after the conversation ended. You can subscribe for free the link is in the show notes and if you prefer to watch you can find video episodes and clips on the YouTube channel. So until next time choose yourself protect your peace and remember you are not an option you are the standard thank you so much and until next time bye bye