Getting Comfortable with Being Uncomfortable with Julia Landauer

How much of our potential do we leave behind simply because something feels uncomfortable?

In Episode 39 of the Tao of Chao Podcast, Philip Chao speaks with NASCAR driver and keynote speaker Julia Landauer about how discomfort, risk, and resilience influence long-term success.

Julia reflects on her experience in racing, where failure is frequent and recovery is essential, and how that mindset translates into career decisions, personal growth, and navigating uncertainty.

Key insights include:
• Why discomfort is not a valid reason to avoid action 
• How repetition builds confidence over time
• The importance of setting a clear long-term direction
• Why embracing failure improves resilience
• How to evaluate risk with both preparation and perspective

This episode explores how growth often begins in the moments we instinctively want to avoid.

👓 Learn more about our HOST

Philip Chao
Website: https://philipchao.us
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DISCLOSURE: Views expressed in the Tao of Chao podcasts are individual opinions and they do not represent the employers of each guest or the firm with which each guest is associated. Our podcasts are for educational and informational purposes only and should not be deemed or viewed as investment advice or recommendations. Please consult your personal financial advisor, investment expert, or investment fiduciary before taking any actions about your plan and investments.

Transcript

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I think if something makes us uncomfortable, that is not a reason not to pursue it. And I think a way that this gets summarized, kind of really regular that I've seen is when people talk about women in negotiating for like a salary, super uncomfortable in that 15 minute conversation, but that those 15 minutes of discomfort have the potential to completely change your financial earnings trajectory. Is it worth not serving yourself in the future because of 15 minutes of being uncomfortable in the present? And so I really think that if discomfort is the thing that's dissuading us from doing something, we need to reassess that and recalculate that and say that discomfort is not a reason to not do something. Welcome to the Tao of Chao podcast, where we will try to find balance and provide a clearer path forward in this uncertain world. Julia Landauer is an American professional stock car racing driver and motivational speaker. She began racing go karts at the age of ten and found success with many wins and podiums. After racing in formula BMW USA single seaters, she gained her first oval racing experience in Ford Focus Midgets while in college. She competed part time in Late Models and Legends cars. She last competed part time in NASCAR Xfinity Series, driving the number 4544 Chevrolet Camaro for Alpha Prime Racing. She has also raised in the NASCAR Can and Pro Series West, driving for Bill MC Natalie Racing and Sunrise Ford Racing, and in 2016 became the highest finishing female ever in the season long point tally, finishing fourth in 2013. She was contestant on survivor. Julia is a Stanford University graduate that has been recognized as Forbes 30 under 30 honoree. She is a passionate advocate for Stem education and women's empowerment, sits on the board of the Shift Up Now Foundation and hosts the podcast. If I'm honest with Julia Landauer at NASCAR. Julia leads cross-functional initiatives in partnership with senior leadership, helping teams align strategy, execution and innovation. And here is Julia. Julia, thank you so much for being my guest today. It's only been a little over a month and a half maybe that we met each other the first time you were a keynote speaker. I was in your audience. My mouth was open half at the time, and I was very impressed with your message and who you are, who you are. And I invite you to be on my podcast. And you didn't hesitate and say yes. And so thank you for that. Thank you for having me. So, so nice to see you again. And, you you asked a great question, in our Q&A, and it was just really exciting to speak with you after. So happy to be here. If you are going to summarize yourself who you are, how would you express that? How would you say. That's a great question. And I think one that I've been grappling to redefine recently. Because I spent 21 years being an active racer. And that was such a big pillar of my life and continues to be. And I love it so much. But I think now, if I were to encapsulate Julia Landauer, I am a former racing champion, I am a keynote speaker, and I like to help people be their best. I am a fierce advocate for women and for Stem education and providing opportunities to people. And, I really like life and I think that is a, a thing that sometimes we can get so in the weeds with what we're doing and what we're building and what we're working on, that we forget the fun element. And so as I get deeper into this next chapter of my life, I think that's a pretty good summary of what I'm focused on. I promise that, at the end of the next chapter, I'm going to come back and do another podcast with you, if not sooner. That would be so cool. That was you know, that is so cool what you went through the next chapter and and now what's next. So thank you. Thank you for that. Human nature tells us that we tend to take everything for granted and that until we have almost lost it or lost it and, and realized how much we, we should have treasured and appreciate what. And that is a repeating motif in everybody's lives. So when you say that how much you love life, have you gone through some near-death experience? Have you gone through experience that you say, oh my gosh, I may not have made it this time, or I may not have made a whole this at this time and makes me reflect is such a component of of how you feel about life or is it just something totally different? It's a little bit of both, I think in general, and we can get into this more in a little bit. But in general, I love saying yes to the opportunities that come my way, and I like actively seeking them out. But in terms of kind of more things that may make me reflective, you know, have have lost loved ones. And I think when you're old enough and you lose someone and you really grapple with the emotions of grieving all of that, it makes it more important. I think, quite honestly, just everything going on in the world right now, it's a heavy time. And so feeling that and seeing, injustices in my opinion and, and understanding just how quickly things can change, I think that's part of it. And then also on, you know, personal development level, the, the transition away from actively racing to this next chapter was a challenging one. And it was a decision that I made because sponsorship fell through. And racing, for anyone who doesn't know, is very financially driven. It is very expensive. Drivers need to fund their way until they get to the highest levels, and I didn't quite get to the highest level, so most of my journey was trying to get more funding to go racing. And when I was 31, the the lead that I had that would have led to a handful of racing in NASCAR, second highest level. It fell through kind of at the 11th hour. And to me, that was when I felt in my gut that it was time to stop chasing that dream and and focus more on what the future would hold for a number of reasons. And I was aware of I knew it would be hard, right. I knew would be hard shifting from that professional athlete lifestyle to figuring out what was next, but I was really unprepared for how much grieving I would do for that part of me and my life, and then also how bitter I would be for so long. That I got I was seeing other people continuing to do racing and doing all of that. So that ended up last that that feeling of overall, I would say being in the dumps was probably close to a year and a half. And like I was living and I was growing and I was starting to work in corporate NASCAR and was, you know, flexing new muscles, which was exciting. But I was also very sad. And so when I feel like I emotionally kind of more or less came out of that, that's when you realize, oh, the sun still rises. And like, you know, I think figuring out how to redefine my purpose when it wasn't 100% be a race car driver, that transition was hard. So and I'm still discovering it, but I think those are the big things that kind of make me say that life is cool because I'm. I feel like I've come up and seen the light a little bit more. And, you know, at 30, I hope you're at 34 now, but I hope that I have many more years and so you can dwell or you can focus on and build finally, in an emotional place where I can focus on the building. It takes time to do that. I think also when a decision is forced upon you, it makes it that much harder is not something that you have time to work it out. So okay, by age 31, I'm going to quit racing and do something else. And every day you're moving to to come to terms with that decision. But this is a decision sort of forced on you. So there's I'm sure bitterness and and what have I done wrong or what. How could I have done it differently. How can I revive my, you know, all those questions? There's a process and nobody can tell you one year is the right time or five years the right time, whatever is the right time. Yeah. But able to have the resilience which we're going to get into later. And able to find, a path forward, is so critically important. So important. Right. Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about I know, you started with go kart and all those type of things, which is well, well, I think publicized. Tell us a little bit about before then what kind of family you come from. Because I'm really wanted. Nosy is the word that comes to mind, but really not nosy. Is really trying to find out. You have many attributes that, are not typically, a genetic attribute is not something that one is born with. It's not a birthright. It is a learned, through environment. Sure. There may be some DNA components. The, some genetic predisposition perhaps. I don't know you well enough to say it is or isn't, but I can tell you that, that alone probably won't do it. Right. It's the environment is how you respond to the environment. What is your reaction to every action and what you learn from every reaction and to improve on it for self-preservation, perhaps, for for self-worth, perhaps, to make a difference, perhaps, for love in your father's eyes. Perhaps, who know the reasons that people do things? So could you share a little bit about your formative years? Shall we say? What? However you define that, that that formed the very foundation by which you, you continue to draw strength from? Yeah, definitely. I feel like I won the family lottery jackpot. I have two incredible parents who happened to be high school sweethearts. So they have grown a lot together as well. And, and I have a younger sister and a younger brother, and we were raised to be a very close knit family. We spent weekends together all the time. My sister and I shared a room for the entirety of our upbringing. My, there's so many ways to answer this question, but I think one was that from, my parents perspective, they showered us in love, but also in challenges and in encouraging us to do things, whether or not we thought we could or should. You know, I think they treated me, my sister, my brother, pretty equally when it came to physical activities, like my sister and I were out doing physical stuff and developing those skills, and we were also playing inside, and my brother did all the same thing. So there was a lot of nurturing, all kinds of play indoor, outdoor, physical or, you know, more creative mental play. So there was that then, you know, we got into go karting pretty quickly for me. And so that then became a family activity where we were all working towards the same types of goals with trying to win races and being able to learn from each other. We all had different styles, and to give an idea of the kind of effort that my parents put in to make sure that my siblings and I stayed friends. When I went away to college, and I was the first kid in the family to go to college, my parents mandated that we had a weekly phone call, Skype call, whatever technology platform was available in the early 20 tens, to stay in touch. And I'm so grateful that they did that because we, the three of us had very different personalities, and that may or may not be friends if we met in the real world. I think a lot of siblings are like that, but we are such a tight unit now. And even, you know, as we were in our 20s and 30s, we were FaceTiming every week. And now that I've moved back to New York, I get to see them in person. So there was a strong emphasis on family, a strong emphasis on doing and experiencing all kinds of things and seeing the potential in things. And one of my dad's best friends described him as a dreamer. He's a very pragmatic and logical and then, you know, professional. But, he, he always saw the reasons why things could work and instead of why they more, maybe more realistically wouldn't work. And I realized that I definitely inherited that gene of, of thinking, okay, well, we can make this work. And that kind of inspires. Speaking for myself inspires me to just try things because there's where there's a will, there's a way. So long answer to your question, but I think those are some of the big components. So you think that you were brought up by your father and mother, who is purposeful, intentional, gave you a wonderful safety net that, even if you didn't do exactly perfectly, it's okay. But not trying is somehow not okay. Exactly. That's exactly it. And they really emphasize the process or the journey. And the giving your best effort. And I think, like, where that really made itself really clear initially or earliest for me was in school. I worked really hard in school, and I was not ever a straight-A student like I. I could not do that, but they saw how hard I was working and and seeking help and really trying to master it. And I remember growing up we would have like, you know, family powwows. And both my parents emphasized, like, we want you to be great at what you're doing. We want you to work hard. We want you to dive in. We want you to dedicate time. Doesn't matter what that is, but be great at it. And I like when you're a teenager. I think you are like, okay, whatever, whatever. Like, what does that even mean? And then you get older and you realize like, oh my goodness, what a luxury that they weren't really steering the ship, but they were kind of encouraging how you could steer the ship. And I think that's something that's really special that I'm very, very grateful for. And you feel that you had the privilege of finding the direction by which you want to travel, rather than you need to be an astronaut, or you need to be a chemist or something like that, right? Yeah, yeah. And I think that my experience was probably a little different than my siblings because I racing fell into my lap. My parents put us in racing. I didn't say, I want to go be. Yeah. I didn't say, I want to go be a race car driver. I think my dad wanted to be a racecar driver when he was little and wasn't allowed to, but. So in some ways, I feel like that was put in my lap, and I was very good at it, and I wanted to pursue it. So I feel like, again, that's another lucky thing where I kind of had all those stars aligned to be able to pursue that and then went with full force. My sister, my brother also liked racing, but then, you know, went off into other directions. My sister became a national rowing champion and crew and my brother continued to race and win races in amateur series. And then they're carving their own paths professionally. But I think that that's a slightly different journey. And I understand that it's a privilege to have found something that you love so passionately and want to dedicate all that time to at an early age, because I don't know what I would do. It's hard to think about, like what I would do if I wasn't a racer, because that was never really an option or part of the equation. And how I was thinking, if you look at Miss Lou, who gave up, ice skating for two years and come back to win gold, incredible. It is it is absolutely incredible. I was just thinking about it when you were talking about your life. So you are the oldest, and there are all kinds of, experiments. Not the right research. About the order of. Yeah, the oldest and the youngest tend to excel more. I don't want to give up middle children, but I'm not trying to make too much stuff. That's okay. But you know what I mean. I think you will see a lot of journal at one time or another. I don't know if it is a truism, but is a popular belief that there's more leadership skill when you are the oldest. And you tend to be given more you know, you have one child, the first child, you say, oh I made the wrong choices for them because I didn't have an experience. And the second one, okay, I overcorrected and the third one, I got it perfect. I'm using that. So yeah. But so that's why a lot of times they think that the olders and the youngest tend to excel. There's more likelihood. Assuming there's any validity to it. I'm just curious. You are the oldest. Did you feel that you need to show leadership? Did you feel that you need to set an example? Did you feel that? Did you feel any of those obligation or responsibility? Obligation. One word responsibility to to really lead the pack, and to do things, for the family in that in that sense, because I know you said family unity. Have you thought about that being a motivation at all, or has it, encroached on your thinking, when you're trying to demonstrate who you are? Not to make them proud. Of course they are proud. But to say, let me set the path that we can all follow. We can all be the best that we can be. And let me show you how I do it. So great question. And I'm going to be honest, I don't know that that specifically has come, or especially when I was a kid in my parents house growing up. I'm not sure that that was consciously something I was working on, and I think it's partially because I think my parents did a phenomenal job. Like, yeah, the first pancakes. Always a little messy, but, but yes, a little little not well done. No, no. Oh, undercooked. But but they did such a good job that, and I think that they, to your point, were always so intentional. I think I think that I, I felt more of an obligation to my performance and all of that because I was aware early on of all the research resources that were going into it time, energy. I was aware of the finances that they were putting in to let me go racing. So I think that responsibility carry more weight. As I got older, my siblings will point out, oh Julia, you walked so that we can run, whether that's on personal things or, you know, first one to get married, all of that. But I, I totally agree with the birth order and the different, the different research that's been done. And it's interesting because I think, you know, my brother and I, brothers being the youngest, we we volunteer a lot of information where I would say we're the more socially outgoing. And my sister observes and she, she participates when she needs to, but she's she's watching things happen. And I'm very envious of her for certain reasons, because I also remember when we were younger, like, I feel like my sister would instigate things, and then my brother and I would start fighting like we would we would all get involved, and then she would bow out just before my parents got there to yell at us. So then my brother and I got yelled at and she was just like, haha, it's just, oh, she's brilliant. She's brilliant. So yeah, but your question about, did I feel first child syndrome of needing to lead? I not consciously or unconsciously, but you did it anyways. Did it do use or not? Oh. I'm just giving some attribution that may or may not be real, but I'm just curious to know, since you're saying that. Thank you for that. Oh, now race cars driving. Of course. We have all watched one form or another of some form of race car driving, and it's at spectacular speed. My father always used to say that is one thing, to sit in the car with a metal surround view is quite another. If you ride a bike, you are protecting the middle. But nonetheless, it looks very high speed. It, it looks like you are competing and you are trying to navigate and get distracted and is, is not a non dangerous sport. So we say so it requires a lot of risk taking. Yeah. On a personal level. And some people take risks because they are ignorant of the risks. They are taking. I don't think you are. I mean, it's very clear. Right. You got going at whatever number of miles an hour, and you are going to try to not only drive fast, but drive correctly and also ahead of everybody else. I'm never done that. I assume those are true truths. You summarized it very nicely. And so as a result, you have developed a way. First of all, you have taken on risks. You're willing to take on risk. And maybe when you are 13, I believe when you won, you, you know, for first, first race. Go kart race. That maybe you were not as cognizant of all the risks. But you still took a risk. And maybe the reward was much greater, on a, on a weighing scale than the risk that you thought you take. So, so I love to hear your thoughts on risk taking seriousness of risk. And how do you manage risk and how do you manage that? Ultimately, you understood the trade offs and you understood risk and reward. And when you are in your seat, you are flying down the racetrack. How do you also, make sure that you do not take more risks than you should to be prudent, in your risk taking or did you not think about that? I'm just curious on your mental state of mind, on on risk taking. Well, to answer your last question first, how do you make sure you don't take too big a risk? Usually when you hit the wall, you learned that that was too big of a risk. And so it, becomes very clear that you have exceeded your limits. So I had a bit of the joke, but also, I mean, I think the, the scariest part of crashing is before you've ever done it and you just kind of abstractly conceptualize in your head what it's going to be like, and then you do it once and for the most part, especially NASCAR cars that are fully centered and have the whole roll cages, they're quite safe. And so but even in formula cars, you, you know, that you will most likely walk away. But I think from an overall mentality and I've thought a lot about this, I don't know exactly why I feel like I'm a yes person. Like, if I have an opportunity, if someone offers me the chance to do something, I've always said yes. And I was talking with someone about this the other day, and it just. Why wouldn't you? You never know who you're going to meet. And if you have some skills, you know that you'll probably be able to figure it out. And and I think that part of what enabled me to do that throughout my teenage young adult life, was that in racing, you, you have the, the go kart class that you're in and it's, you know, initially it's fast and then you, you're a little scared, but then you, you work through it every lap. You, you get a little bit faster, you push the brake zones a little bit, you stay on the gas a little bit longer, and then you master it, and then you age out of that class and you have to do it all over again. So I think that there's you're constantly upping your threshold for what is scary and proving to yourself that you can figure it out even though you are scared. And then when you're when you are doing that, you're also trying to go after the win. And when you have a great result, whether it's a win or your first podium or your first top ten, if you whatever that threshold is, that's a really good result. You are immensely proud of yourself and the feeling of being really, really proud of yourself is addicting. And and it's it's so cool to know that you've worked really hard and that you've figured it out. And if you didn't figure it out right away, that you came back and kept working at it. And I think that resilience that's built is really, really important. And to be to be able to do that at such a young age of ten, 11, 12, is really formative and is just like constant proof to ourselves that we might not be where we want to be when we start, but we work through it and we do. We do what's in our comfort zone, like chipping away at something, not necessarily taking big swings. And I think there might be a difference with girls and boys in that as well. Like I think my brother would take bigger swings like break so much later. Going into a corner, I would work up towards it. Some people will go out and be fast within a few laps. For me, I would take the full session of of working at it. So you do, you do just kind of innately know what what risk you're willing to take and what your style is for figuring it out. And I think that's an important thing to try to recognize early on to help you later. So the two questions that comes out of that, statement, one is nature and nurture. Yeah, we'll come back to that in the second. You mentioned that, when you're on the podium or when you win or when you get some reward for your risk taking, that gives you more confidence. You didn't use that word, but gave you gave you a high, gave you, gave you something that you say. Oh, that was so good. I want to experience that again and again and so, so the way you were rewarded for the risk that you have taken. Right. I mean in that sense, yeah. I think of it, I mean I'm an investment person. So I think about risk and reward. Yeah I'll return what have you. So if you have never been rewarded the first time you take that risks that cannot be in our mind. So yeah. Well we well wouldn't it be nice if I stand on the Olympic podium, but not me? I would never stand. No. You know, and that reward is so elusive, is so distant. Yeah. It doesn't have to be. Olympic can be anything. So talk to us a little bit about. Certainly you have a very loving family, a protective family, a family this supportive in the sense that you can be anything you want. Go for it. We're not judging you. Right. Well, as long as it's like, well, they might judge, but at least they didn't tell us about it, you know. You know what I'm saying? You said very supportive. Yeah. But when you first took the first risk, without knowing that you're going to reach that reward, because once you have reached that reward, at least you have done it once and you say, I'm going to do that again, I'm going to be even better and better. And periodically you get more rewards. And it is the Pavlov dog theory that when the red light comes on, we start salivating. Yes, I get to go and I'm going to win right? So how do you how do you tell someone, how do you share with someone who has never been rewarded yet to take that step and jump into the water? That's a good question. I think it comes down to even if you've never achieved the reward, it still has to do with the goal. Like the reason you're pursuing it in the first place. So even I know that I didn't win until it was my seventh race in my first year of go karting. My seventh race is when I won for the first time, but from the time I showed up, that was always the goal to get good enough to have that. So I think some level of being goal oriented, and I think that that's something that's innately built into our culture. You know, you go to school and the the objective is to get A's right and to do well, get the best grades you can. So I think that's a fairly natural benchmark to set. But I think part of it also goes back to what I mentioned earlier with the process. You know, you get an A go kart the first time. And I knew that it was fun. I knew that I liked, you know, feeling like I was going a little faster into the corner. But then I didn't like when someone was passing me. So there was a competitive nature and I'm a competitive person. I couldn't have guessed. Yeah, right. No, I'm a competitive person amongst other people with myself, a healthy amount with my husband and it so I do think that that's probably a little nature just being in there. But but yeah, I mean, I think I, I'm a big believer in having a Northstar, a goal, whether that is trying to win a championship, if it's trying to reach a certain financial level that allows you to live the lifestyle that you want, if that's to climb the corporate ladder, if that's to, you know, feel that you are in complete control of your time. And however you get to that, I think having North Stars are really helpful. At the same time, I think that they can be very overwhelming. And so that's when being able to pragmatically break it down into digestible, bite sized pieces that you can tackle becomes very important. I think I talked about that a little bit in the keynote that you saw that it's it's really important to be able to have the roadmap so you can hit your marks so that you can get to that big goal. So, so the fear of failure compared to the glory of success is often, you know, a waiting machine. And how do you deal with failure? Yeah. So to a loaded question, right. I do, I deal with failure. I have a glass of wine. Yeah. It's not easy, but it's a good first step. Again. Roadmap. Right. No, I, it's I again, I think this is something where I got so lucky with racing and I understand that racing is inaccessible to so many people, not only financially, but just culturally. It's not omnipresent everywhere, but with racing. No one, there's always one winner. And then the 15, 20, 30 losers. Right. So your odds are low. And then additionally, what kind of keeps that exciting is that for most racing series, you're racing very frequently like in go karting. We were racing 27 weekends a year. So for most of the spring, summer and fall we were at the racetrack. And so if you had a bad race the next weekend, you get to try it again, right? So you're and you're only as good as your last race. And so there's so much repetition. And so that's why I think that getting out there and saying yes to things so that you have more and more opportunities won't inevitably increase your failure rate because you're just you're not going to win everything. But it then helps you get back into it. And the recovery is so important. And I think that's a mindset that many athletes will know. And I'm sure it spans other industries like recovery in the moment of competition is so important. If I spin on the racetrack on lap three out of 15, you know there's still 12 laps of this race. Anything can happen. So you have to get into it so quickly. If you're speedskating at the Olympics and you put one blade wrong, you still have the rest of your race to go. So coming back in recovery and building that skill, I think then makes failure better. But back to your question of how you deal with it. It's a fine balance for me personally of being self-critical, looking back and trying to be as objective. What could I have done differently that might have changed the output for me? And once I've done that, to be really diligent in not dwelling, because I think the dwelling is where you can get stuck in a nonproductive sulking. Yeah, exactly. Exactly which we've all been there. We've all done that. I did it for a year and a half. When I decide to stop racing like I get, you can do well, but the quicker you're able to focus forward, the quicker you'll get out of it. And so that's where again, saying yes to things, trying things, getting back on the horse, or back in the driver's seat is that's where you have the power to do that. And it means that you're not reliant on other people. So you just you can't make excuses at that point. And that's another thing that I think I take very seriously is like, I hold myself very accountable and I don't make excuses. And I think that's a scary mindset to take. And it puts a lot of onus on you to recognize when you've not done well, but it's then allows you to do so much more interesting. So when you, I guess starting to change your career path, you have morphed more into sharing your own personal story. It's like what we're doing now motivational speaking, a keynote speaking and things like that. The very first gig where you have to stand in front of a thousand people or whatever. I must be kind of scary. But because of your racing, history and your career does, do you feel that every next level of risks is a little easier to handle? Or do you still go back and not put your thumb in your finger and curl up somewhere in the room? I'm don't mean that, but do you still feel that there is still a lot of anxiety, or do you feel that? No, I think I can do it. Well, can you share a little bit about that and how you feel as you go into a different career or different situation? Nothing to do with racing. How racing may have helped or not helped you. Yeah. Moving forward. Yeah. Well, I and this was part of the question that you asked in that keynote. Like I feel very confident that I will figure out what I'm trying to figure out. And I think that's partially because of that cyclical experience of, again, being scared, working through it, figuring it out, winning or doing very well, climbing the ranks, all of that. But I think as we get older, the more that we do things, the more tools we have in our toolbox and the more experiences we have. The more slightly different way we'll approach it or different obstacles will have that we have to overcome. And then that skill set sharpens. So as we get older, hopefully we're becoming more and more equipped to handle things. So any given thing that comes at us isn't going to be as daunting as when you're a 14 year old kid going car racing for the first time, or a 20 something year old joining the corporate world for the first time. Right? That being said, plenty of things are scary. People ask me if I ever had imposter syndrome, in racing, and I didn't really, which I'm still grateful for. I had imposter syndrome. When I joined the corporate side of NASCAR, I was 32 years old and I had never worked in corporate before, and I knew I had a lot of valuable skill sets and experiences and perspectives. But I had to learn how to use Excel like I. I felt like such a noob, as they say, and but knew that I would figure it out and but I think part of what enables me to do that is that I know I'm going to prepare very well. I know that I'm going to do the research I can put in the repetition for keynotes. Still, I practice every keynote before I give it, even though I've told the same, similar stories for ten years now. Like, you can always improve, you can always get better. And so figuring out your regimen for how you're going to prepare, is very important. And, and I had a very visceral, experience where as a 15 year old girl in the next level up in racing cars, I physically was not strong enough to complete our two day pre-season test. It. I was so fatigued at the end of the first day, I had a huge blister on my hand from the shifter being stiffer and I was so, so embarrassed that the next day I was going to have to go to my team and say, I know that the data you're getting off the car is not valuable. And luckily it snowed for the second day for the first time in like 50 years in South Carolina, where we were testing. So I didn't have to admit that publicly. God is on your side. Something someone, somewhere was on my side. Yes, because I didn't have to admit that embarrassment. But you know that I immediately changed my preparation behavior to make sure I was not going to be underprepared. And so I think the combination of all that to summarize, I've been speaking a lot that, you know, doing a lot of things gives you the skills and the tools to be able to have the confidence to feel like you can tackle new things and making sure that you're prepared when those two things meet, that's when you're unstoppable. And I think that is so cool. And knowing that you can build that yourself, anyone can build that themselves with research, with diligence, with asking questions, and with experimenting to see what works for them. Fantastic. I gave a a talk or lecture I want to call it at at a university here last year and among many other messages, I said, the number one, you have to love yourself. So that love means respect. And, you know, you you cannot look down at yourself. So, respect yourself and love yourself. And number two, you have to go on to get to know who you are, what are your shortcomings, what are your strengths, right? And be very honest about. Yeah. Without judging. Yep. Right. And then if you can do that, then you number three, you have to be comfortable under your own skin. Right. Dictates logical sequencing. Right. Yeah. And if you can do all that then you will gain the kind of confidence. And I see that in you. I say that not talking about what I talk about. But really I see that in you in the sense that you know, is possibility thinking. In order to have possibility thinking you have to have self-respect. And that yes I can and I'm not inferior doesn't mean I'm superior to everybody else. But I'm not inferior. Yeah. You know that kind of. Yeah. Self-worth confidence is really important. To tackle everything we have in life because we're not always going to win every race. Everything. But we can dust off, learn from it and move on. And to be a better me or you or whoever, in whatever we do, I think, I believe you agree with that. I agree with you. And I think that something that that sparked for me was also, I just, like everyone else, have had moments or seasons where I was I had a really negative internal dialog, like, I had a really bad season after several really good seasons, and I realized that my my self-talk was really negative. I was questioning myself. I wasn't like berating myself, but was questioning my ability, wondering if I past my prime. And I hadn't really thought about positive self-talk before. And I will admit that when I heard it the first time, I thought it was fluffy and not relevant, like I thought that I was above it. But then you realize when you have this really negative dialog in your head that is going to have an impact on you and so I had to figure out how to catch myself and how to be initially really disciplined in not letting myself do the negative self-talk. Because that is so that will harm us so much more than other people's words. And what I like to tell people, especially women and girls, is that plenty of other people will tell you no, plenty of other people will say that you can't do something. So we cannot be the ones that tell ourselves, no, I think we should always tell ourselves yes, we might not achieve it, but we should always encourage ourselves to do the thing, to be able to do the thing. And there might be things that get in our way, but we shouldn't be self-limiting because plenty of other people will do that for us. Right? So keeping that what I say, what I say to people, I said that if, if you start, you know, being negative to yourself, I say you have to sell yourself. Take a number that many people would do it to you. Yeah. You just have to wait in line, you know, let everybody else have, you know. So, yeah. So same message. So I appreciate that. Let's turn to, something that I understand to be, your champion for is for women or girls. And I have two daughters, so I'm in. I think I was a more, much more of a male chauvinist when I was single until I have daughters and then the only, other, living thing in our house is a cat, and it's also a female cat. So I'm a male, self-proclaimed male, left in the house. But anyways, so in investing in this investment, all the research have shown that men tend to take on greater risk. It doesn't mean they're going to have greater reward. They tend to be more willing, foolishly or otherwise take on risk. If you look at their portfolios, they are much more. Go for it. That kind of feeling. Whereas women are much more cautious. You can say prudent. So their portfolio in the long run tend to underperform their male counterpart. But if you take a look at the losses, women tend to have much bigger losses. You know, the which is that I think somewhere I read, oh, I heard you spoke in the past about how girls are raised differently. We all know that. And, do you feel that you were raised in such a way that you were not subject to that kind of biases? I don't know how you invest, and that's not what I'm asking. Yeah. Please don't get me wrong. I'm just saying that, you have a tendency to to to manage risk. You know, risk is is part of life. We cross the street is taking risk. Yeah. We took the we took a New York. Metro is a risk I don't. Yeah, it's a criminal, but whatever. It's riskier now than it was when I was growing up, so. Yeah, but you understand what I mean. But risk is part of life and how we deal with it. So, how do you deal with how do you think about risk and able to, to contain and control the variables to some extent we can a control or variable of a risk. But you are more comfortable, shall we say, relatively speaking, from your history. Yeah. And how do we share that with girls and women to, to not to be like men. That's not what I'm talking. But so that they can be they can benefit more because a little bit more risks. The upside is better to, you know, otherwise why would you take risks? It's because of the upside. Yeah. But you exaggerate the risks. Your downside is exaggerated as well. So it's sort of calibrating risk taking in a smart and prudent way by winning the testosterone of the men and the prudence of a woman. How do you do that? Great question. Because I do like obviously there are biological differences and there are different roles that if we think back to the earliest humans that women served and men serve, there are very practical safety risks that women have to consider that men overall don't have to consider. Like there there is definitely a difference. So I would assume some some of my comfort was, again, from an early age, being put on bicycles or only being put like for young girls developing the physical motor skills is so important for their overall confidence. And that's why, you know, majority of the women who are in executive positions in companies did sports growing up, right? You you develop those physical boundaries and you, or not develop the values, but you, you develop those physical skills, and those fine motor skills that then just help you tackle and then you have that confidence. Again, we've talked about it a bunch, but the, the doing more things so that you get more experiences, so you have more knowledge and tools in your toolbox as to how to properly approach something where there's a game plan, it doesn't necessarily feel as risky, right? Like I look at the Olympic snowboarders who are doing flips in the air on the half pipe and I'm like, you guys can fall and break your neck like that seems so much riskier than any form of motor sports I've ever done. But they have practice, they have a game plan, they've developed those skills. And so I think that whether it's on a big physical level, like in sports or if it's in a smaller level, like whether or not you make a career pivot, which is still a big thing, like that's huge. But to try to get back to your question about how do you balance that, I always tried to have or at least try to identify what the safety net was. So like, I wasn't like, you know, had my parents not told me that they would support me for a couple years after college while I tried to make racing work. Had they not done that, I probably wouldn't have been able to take that risk. So there's that safety net, which I don't think we can count out as, you know, part of these decisions. And then as I get older, I know some of the risks that I'm, you know, that I think about are, you know, when my husband, I move back to New York, huge jump up and cost of living but so potential opportunities and I get to go home. So that's really exciting for me. And so I think it's it's thinking about what would future version of you want if you look in however, if you look in the future and you're looking back with this help that and this goes back to again having the big picture goals, I think you're much more likely to want to take risks if you see the potential. And so visualizing like visualizing what your future life looks like, visualizing what your future skills are becomes really critical. And what I love about all of this is that it's something each one of us can do. We don't need a coach to do it. We don't need resources to do it. You think about what you want your life to look like, what you want to do, what you want the day to day look like, what you want the financial resources to look like, what you want the community to look like. And when you have that, you then assess risks with that potential reward and that gain. And I think that's if you're excited about the potential that will enable you to take more risk. Because you see that upside. I think if you're living in fear or in the well, what if it doesn't work? That then becomes harder to then go make those riskier decisions. So combination of establishing your own safety net, whatever that looks like. And, and then thinking about what the future can be. Somewhere in there you'll find that happy spot where you can take your risks. And again, once you take risks, if they fail, you figure out how to get back up on your two feet, and then you realize that even the failing you're taking the risk that you failed at was not probably so bad. That's why your your statement about the North Star of your your goal and committed to it, is so important that drives everything else 100% because otherwise I'm kind of rudderless. Where am I going and why am I taking that risk? And why do I want to keep doing this if I don't succeed? And whatever that means, it's not even it's just ill defined about the future and where you want. Some people love that, and for some people that works, I know that I don't go with the flow. Well, I don't like going with the flow. And you can go with the flow and still have, you know, North Stars, obviously. But yeah, you need direction. Otherwise everything is just very overwhelming. Even before then you got to have the self-confidence and and you got to have the self-love and respect. And before then you have to have a hopefully a family, the supportive or people in your lives doesn't have to even be family because not everybody has. Yeah, totally. The supportive, and encouraging. Yeah. I think all that, all those are factors. And I'm going to try to see if I can mix all that into a potion or something. So. Right. Well, if you do, can I get some can I get some in on that. Rev share basically because that would be so good. But yeah, thank you so much. I really enjoy to get to know you. Thank you for opening up and allowing me to know you and other people to know, through this conversation, and, it's a true role model for, for, for for girls and women and others in the society who may be not as ready to move forward. Not quite as ready to, to set the course that may, may have challenges and risks. But once we set that goal, that is a well thought out, long term and commit to it and have the confidence and the self love and respect to move forward regardless. And that's not easy. It's easier said than done. Yeah. But you, certainly a living example. And this one of the purpose of having this podcast is about you and how people can look to you and say, well, Julie, I've done it this way. Maybe I can do some of the things that she's doing. In my own way, thank you so much. And I think, kind of the one thing I'll say to cap it off is that I think when, whenever, if people are listening and it's like, okay, well, you know, this is scary or this makes me really uncomfortable, I think that's the key there in that word, discomfort. I think if something makes us uncomfortable, that is not a reason not to pursue it. Right. And I think a way that this gets summarized kind of really regularly that I've seen is, you know, when I've heard women or people talk about women in negotiating for like a salary super uncomfortable in that 15 minute conversation, but that those 15 minutes of discomfort have the potential to completely change your financial earnings trajectory for a long time. And so is it worth. Not serving yourself in the future because of 15 minutes of being uncomfortable in the present. And so I really think that if discomfort is the thing that's dissuading us from doing something, we need to reassess that and recalculate that and say that discomfort is not a reason to not do something. I sometimes say you get comfortable with your uncomfortability. Exactly. And the sooner you can and the less uncomfortable you are, the better you are. And yeah, it's not easy. But if that practice again, it's that practice because the your threshold for discomfort will rise as you do more things that make you uncomfortable. So before I let you go, what's next? What's, you have some big events to go to. You have a big speech to give or what? What's going on? Yeah. So a big mix of things. So, I work on the strategy team at NASCAR. So we're having, you know, this is a big year for us. We've we've overcome a lot in the last handful of years. And, it's cool to be on that team that's building, I'm also doing a lot of keynote speaking and continuing to get in front of really cool audiences and sharing these stories. And, you know, the stories evolve with my experiences. So you get to be get to meet very cool people like you. So we've got a lot of that. And then, my husband and I are going to continue settling into our new home in New York and do some construction and get to learn the whole New York ecosystem for renovations. So a wide range of of things that are going on. But it's, I'm so excited to be in an environment where I feel really energized, like I'm a high energy person in general. And being back in New York makes me feel like an even more energized version of myself. And the possibilities are endless. So I'm so invigorated right now. I think you're excited about life, which is yeah, that's full circle moment here, right? Like, life is really cool. There's a lot of cool stuff in life. So, feeling really, really lucky and excited to be in this chapter and building. And before I will be watching, I'll be watching you from afar to to to the future. So thank you. Thank you so much and hope to see you again. Likewise. And thank you so much for having me. This was wonderful. That was, my my treat to myself. Oh, thank you, thank you. You can always find more episodes by visiting Philip chao.us/podcast, or find us on your favorite podcast app. You can always leave us feedback, ask, question, or request a topic for us to discuss by sending an email to p c at Philip chao.us. Views expressed in the Tao Chao podcast are individual opinions, and they do not represent the employees of each guest or the firm. Each guest is associated. Our podcasts are for educational and informational purposes only, and should not be deemed or viewed as investment advice or recommendations. Please consult your personal financial advisor, investment expert or investment fiduciary before taking any actions about your plan and investments. Recovery in the moment of competition is so important. If I spin on the racetrack on lap three out of 15, you know are still 12 laps of this race, anything can happen. So you have to get into it so quickly. If you're speedskating at the Olympics and you put one blade wrong, you still have the rest of your race to go. So coming back in recovery and building that skill, I think that makes failure better. But back to your question of how you deal with it. It's a fine balance for me personally of being self-critical, looking back and trying to be as objective. What could I have done differently that might have changed the output for me? And once I've done that, to be really diligent in not dwelling, because I think the dwelling is where you can get stuck in a nonproductive or sulking. Yeah, exactly. Exactly which we've all been there. We've all done that. I did it for a year and a half. When I decide to stop racing like I get, you can do well, but the quicker you're able to focus forward, the quicker you'll get out of it. And so that's where again, saying yes to things, trying things, getting back on the horse. Or back in the driver's seat is that's where you have the power to do that. And it means that you're not reliant on other people. So you just you can't make excuses at that point. That's another thing that I think I take very seriously is like, I hold myself very accountable and I don't make excuses. And I think that's a scary mindset to take. And it puts a lot of onus on you to recognize when you've not done well. But it then allows you to do so much more. Racing. You you have the the go kart class that you're in and it's, you know, initially it's fast and then you, you're a little scared, but then you, you work through it every lap, you, you get a little bit faster, you push the brake zones a little bit, you stay on the gas a little bit longer, and then you master it, and then you age out of that class and you have to do it all over again. So I think that there's you're constantly updating your threshold for what is scary. And proving to yourself that you can figure it out even though you are scared. And then when you're when you are doing that, you're also trying to go after the win. And when you have a great result, whether it's a win or your first podium or your first top ten, if you whatever that threshold is, that's a really good result. You are immensely proud of yourself. The feeling of being really, really proud of yourself is addicting. And and it's it's so cool to know that you've worked really hard and that you've figured it out. And if you didn't figure it out right away, that you came back and kept working at it. And I think that resilience that's built is really, really important. And to be to be able to do that at such a young age of ten, 11, 12, is really formative and is just like constant proof to ourselves that we might not be where we want to be when we start, but we work through it and we do. We do what's in our comfort zone, like chipping away at something, not necessarily taking big swings. And I think there might be a difference with girls and boys in that as well. Like I think my brother would take bigger swings like break so much later. Going into a corner, I would work up towards it. Some people will go out and be fast within a few laps. For me, I would take the full session of of working at it. So you do, you do just kind of innately know what what risk you're willing to take and what your style is for figuring it out. And I think that's an important thing to try to recognize early on to help you later. How do you share with someone who has never been rewarded yet to take that step and jump into the water? That's a good question. I think it comes down to even if you've never achieved the reward, it still has to do with the goal, like the reason you're pursuing it in the first place. So even I know that I didn't win until it was my seventh race in my first year of go karting. My seventh race is when I won for the first time, but from the time I showed up, that was always the goal to get good enough to have that. So I think some level of being goal oriented, and I think that that's something that's innately built into our culture. You know, you go to school and the the objective is to get A's right and to do well, get the best grades you can. So I think that's a fairly natural benchmark to set. But I think part of it also goes back to what I mentioned earlier with the process. You know, you get an a go kart the first time. And I knew that it was fun. I knew that I liked, you know, feeling like I was going a little faster into the corner. But then I didn't like when someone was passing me. So there was a competitive nature and I'm a competitive person. I wouldn't have guessed. Yeah, right. No, I'm a competitive person, amongst other people with myself, a healthy amount with my husband and it so I do think that that's probably a little nature just being in there. But the. Yeah, I mean, I think I, I'm a big believer in having a Northstar, a goal, whether that is trying to win a championship, if it's trying to reach a certain financial level that allows you to live the lifestyle that you want, if that's to climb the corporate ladder, if that's to, you know, feel that you are in complete control of your time. And however you get to that, I think having North Stars are really helpful. What I like to tell people, especially women and girls, is that plenty of other people will tell you no, plenty of other people will say that you can't do something. So we cannot be the ones that tell ourselves, no. I think we should always tell ourselves yes, we might not achieve it, but we should always encourage ourselves to do the thing, to be able to do the thing. And there might be things that get in our way, but we shouldn't be self-limiting because plenty of other people will do that for us. Right? So. I think if you're living in fear or in the well, what if it doesn't work? That then becomes harder to then go make those riskier decisions. So combination of establishing your own safety net, whatever that looks like. And, and then thinking about what the future can be. Somewhere in there you'll find that happy spot where you can take your risks. And again, once you take risks, if they fail, you figure out how to get back up on your two feet, and then you realize that even the failing and taking the risk that you failed at was not probably so bad. Welcome to the Town of Channel podcast, where we will try to find balance and provide a clearer path forward in this uncertain world. You can always find more episodes by visiting Phillip Channel Dot USA slash podcasts, or find us on your favorite podcast app. You can always leave us feedback, ask, question, or request a topic for us to discuss by sending an email to p c at Phillip Channel dot U.S.. Views expressed in the Tao Chao Podcast are individual opinions, and they do not represent the employees of each guest or the firm. Each guest is associated. Our podcasts are for educational and informational purposes only, and should not be deemed or viewed as investment advice or recommendations. Please consult your personal financial advisor, investment expert or investment fiduciary before taking any actions about your plan and investments.