Episode 121. Lorie Roule: Advocating for Sustainable Language Programs

Join us on a journey through language and culture with Lorie Roule, a multilingual expert from the intelligence community. From her fascination with French in fifth grade to her proficiency in Russian, Arabic, and Turkish, Lorie shares insights into the joy of language learning and the art of conversational code-switching. Explore the significance of language proficiency in high-stakes translation scenarios where precision and strategy intersect in communication.

Imagine a world where communication bridges diverse populations, regardless of age. Discover the cognitive flexibility that enables lifelong learning and the importance of language education in national security. Inspired by Lori's post-retirement advocacy, we highlight language learning as a vital societal asset.

Language embodies both strategy and emotion. Journey with us as we explore the emotional depth of language, connecting cultures and fostering personal relationships. Celebrate stories of language revitalization, including the Reencuentro Taino Conference (https://www.tainoconference.org/) and the efforts of organizations like Planet Word and 7,000 Languages to preserve human expression. Join us for a heartfelt reflection on the power of language to connect, empower, and advocate for sustainable language programs.

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Transcript

Norah Jones: 0:02

Welcome to this podcast with my colleague and friend, Lorie Roule. Inspiration, imagination, all kinds of life and career applications that illustrate in her life the power of language and culture. How about in your lfife?

Introduction: 0:22

Welcome to episode 121 of it's About Language, hosted by Nora Lulich-Jones. Today, we're joined by Lorie Roule, whose passion for language was ignited in her fifth grade French class and led to a distinguished career in the intelligence community. With expertise in Russian, Arabic, French and more, Lorie advocates for language proficiency and cultural understanding. Join us as she shares insights on the transformative power of multilingualism.

Norah Jones: 0:53

Lorie Roule, it's a great pleasure to welcome you to it's About Language. I'm delighted to have this conversation with you today, my friend.

Lorie Roule: 1:00

Thank you. I'm so excited to be here, nora, thank you. Thank you for this honor.

Norah Jones: 1:05

You know it's been so much fun over these well decades in Virginia to have been able to work in the language field and I've been especially appreciative of and an admiration of your work with the intelligence community and the impact of language in the intelligence community. But let folks know about the history of yourself, your own language background and family cultural background that led you to using languages professionally in the intelligence community.

Lorie Roule: 1:41

Oh, thanks, Nora, for that great question. I mean, language has been such a part of me I would say my whole life, and my first exposure really was kind of twofold around the age of 10. So, fifth grade, lucky in a public school system to have been offered the opportunity to take French, and loved it, just gravitated towards it At the same time. Yeah, my heritage is both Polish and Italian and lived with my Polish-speaking grandmother who had not used Polish in years and years and years and I used to torture that poor lady by making word lists Okay, grandma, how do you say this in Polish? How do you say this in Polish? I'm thinking I could teach myself the language in that way. I did end up learning a lot of Polish words, but from there just kept up with the French throughout school, added a couple other languages along the way Latin, german while still in high school. Love Latin because it taught me so much about how languages can work, and I love that aspect of language as well.

Lorie Roule: 2:42

Went on to college, took a little Russian in college, took a little Polish in college, again a little formally, and then at that time the government was looking for people that knew languages and that's really what got me my job Started off in, yeah, national Security, working for the National Security Agency.

Lorie Roule: 3:02

This was mid-80s, so Russian was the flavor of the day and I had some Russian and so put to work as a language analyst for a few years and then switched over to the CIA, the Central Intelligence Agency, where throughout my career again I did other kinds of things.

Lorie Roule: 3:20

I was very much involved in intelligence collection and management of that collection, but used my languages, picked up some additional languages Arabic and Turkish, used those languages, and then I also had the pleasure of working various language programs, including Director, actually, of our Intelligence Language School at CIA and a position called the Senior Language Authority, which really is all things language kind of managing all things language for an organization, and many of the intelligence organizations had what are known as these SLA Senior Language Authorities Retired about five years ago or so, but language still with me, it is so much with me and reinvented myself. Perhaps I always had a bit of this, but as a language advocate, so really trying to say well, here's what my experience has been, certainly only in the national security realm, but language is all around us and it's something that I can speak to firsthand, so why not be out there advocating for the importance of language, for the importance of the cultural understanding that it brings, for the importance of connection, connecting peoples Powerful?

Norah Jones: 4:31

I hope everybody will run out and sign up for language courses right, based on that, my dear. But let me unpack a little bit. You just collected languages there as you rolled through some of those years, so let's take a look first at the implications of learning language, then we'll deal with some of the other steps in that process that you just went through. When you began to learn a language, you're a fairly typical human, an intelligent human. What do you have to say about learning language and languages such that you were able to collect a group like that? How do you encourage those that are potentially frightened of learning a language with your own experience?

Lorie Roule: 5:20

Yeah, it's a great question. I think starting off with that first exposure as a kid really helps in not being afraid. In learning a language you just really have to dive right in and find every opportunity to use it and not be so worried about making mistakes sounding silly. I think kids can embrace that a little bit better. The other thing, nora, is that once you learn one, I really think it is a lot easier to learn another. To give two examples yeah, french is a bit closer to English.

Lorie Roule: 5:57

An English speaker typically doesn't have too much struggle with the French, but something like Arabic, that's a lot different. It's a different language family. But yet knowing how languages work in general or what to expect when you're learning another language think helps immensely as you begin to broaden into these other languages and you begin to find patterns. By the way, lots of cognates In Arabic actually there are cognates that are similar to English or sometimes similar to the French.

Lorie Roule: 6:25

One of my favorite stories, if I could just segue for a moment in maybe my language learning and I consider myself always a learner I have to say I've never stopped learning even languages that I already have, because there's always something new out there. But I loved situations I was thrown into a few times where you start in one language and because I had the other language I could segue over. So conversation in French with somebody, say, from Lebanon, where you can flow back and forth between French and Arabic, just thrills me. I love those kinds of situations. There are plenty of people in the world that can do that fluently in so many different languages. It's a great feeling.

Norah Jones: 7:06

It is a great feeling. And yet you have just demonstrated the fact that you took the what you call pretty much the fearlessness of children and you bring it on into adulthood. The story there, and you alluded to the fact of doing it not necessarily perfectly. There are some folks that may feel that they have, that are listeners that may feel like they've missed the boat. It's too. They're too old, they can't start now. They're scared People will make fun of them. All of those things are possible, I suppose, but how is it you have gone with these multiple languages into something that's a high pressure area security? That should lead some pathways to some stories of encouragement for adults.

Lorie Roule: 7:53

Oh, absolutely so, when you're. You know, I would say that learning a language in the intelligence community if it's a brand new language one, yeah, you have to be fearless, you have to dive right in, you have to find opportunity to use it from day one. But it is serious business. This isn't, you know, this period of time that you spend, for example, in some languages it can be as long as two years. In other languages certainly a lot less than that. But this is a full time, serious job and, as you can imagine, for national security purposes it literally could be a matter of life and death.

Lorie Roule: 8:28

You know, words have meaning, and understanding the nuance and understanding the culture where these words are spoken you don't want to put yourself in a situation where either you're miscommunicating something or your misunderstanding something, somebody's telling you something really important in that language. You want to be absolutely sure that you understand exactly what's happening there, because that ultimately gets fed up to decision makers Eventually, in English, of course, but you know you want to make sure that that information is accurate. So, yeah, high stakes here when we're talking about that, but you know, if I could just say broadly, high stakes in other areas to think about health. Think about if you make a mistake and you're using language in a health situation, how difficult that could be, where, if you make a mistake in that, or think about a business deal, you know million dollar, multi million dollar business deal Mistakes can be made. And again I stress the cultural aspect of that too.

Norah Jones: 9:26

Well and I just don't know me as I'm listening to you that mistakes can be made in communication in families that are all speaking the same language and come from the same background because they've all been living together their whole lives. That is such an interesting insight into the pressure that is on language and cultural understanding happens and many different kinds of situations. Speaking of storytelling, when you think about the experiences that you've had using these languages under circumstances where you wanted to be sure you understood, both linguistically and culturally, what was happening, do you have a story that's like? This really got my attention or I've enjoyed sharing this story?

Lorie Roule: 10:12

You know. One thing that comes to mind doesn't quite answer your question, but I think it is important to know is I think self awareness in language is really important and there are lots of ways to communicate right if you only have basic knowledge of the language. You can use your body language, you can use, you know, facial expressions and things to kind of help support that. But when you have what what's known in government is sort of that professional proficiency level, which is you know kind of the conversation we're having, we're able to have this, say, in another language or we can get into you know kind of nuance and understand opinion and that sort of thing, when you have those skills, you need to know, you need to be self aware about where exactly your weaknesses are and therefore it's not quite a story although I might have one in a minute, but not quite a story but it's really having those techniques to be able to question again. Okay, I heard you say this is that right? Or I didn't understand this word. What does that mean? And not think that you got everything or you fully understood everything. And again, we do this in English together. English speakers love the time people do it in other languages, but when you're cross language you really have to check yourself and kind of be careful on that.

Lorie Roule: 11:26

My one story that is about pressure in this regard is I was in a situation where we got some very important information that actually was going to impact on a major incident. Can't get into details here, but I would just say a major incident that you know people reading the paper might well hear about and nobody in my orbit in my office knew the language but me and it was time sensitive and I had to try in this case was translation. I had to translate this thing and I had people breathing down my neck and I think the technique I had to use there was back up everybody. Just give me some space to focus here, because I need to get this, I need to get it right. There's nobody I can consult with. So you know I need to do my my best To get this out there and make sure it's accurate. So it can be you know, can be a bit of a pressure cooker sometime sure can.

Norah Jones: 12:23

But look at, look at what. There's so many Aspects there, Lorie, that are so powerful. I'm going to talk now about back filling into education. Okay, you have mentioned this. Folks, give me a little bit of time. I have to be able to concentrate. And especially, you referred to self awareness, listening carefully, questioning. In the proficiency area we call also the negotiation of meaning and understanding. Of course, when you're translating, you can't negotiate. You have to be able to kind of negotiate with the context, I suppose. But when you're, you take a look at the experiences you have had and when you look at the kinds of experiences that government, business and others are looking for in language and culturally Adapt individuals, what particular things can you say? When you're teaching languages, please be sure that students also learn. How would you fill that sentence out?

Lorie Roule: 13:29

absolutely. Nor, you know, I've been a big believer in making the learner probably have anything, but in this case we're talking about language, but making the learner of language smart, about learning language, how do you best learn? So, yeah, of course, your instructor is going to dictate that, obviously, to a certain extent. And you know, I've been in a situation where I had an instructor who really wasn't an instructor, it was just a person that happened to speak Arabic. And you know, I would meet with this nice young, nice elderly gentleman in this case, you know, on a bi-weekly basis or whatever to practice my Arabic. I was my own instructor. I had to dictate to this person here's what we're going to work on because, you know, he just didn't know how to teach, and teaching is an art and a profession as well and you have to know how to do that. So, I think, knowing that as a learner, you have to be pushed, you have to be pushed into uncomfortable zones to really, you know, use and flex those newly acquired language muscles, language skills and I would also say that I know today, you know, kind of the norm around education now is more of this performance, task-based, really being able to do something with the language and I think that's super meaningful to today's learners and instructors in making that connection for students about here's what we're going to learn. But now let's all practice it. Let's do something, let's have a role, let's do a scenario, let's perform something, let's make a phone call and rent an apartment or whatever type of thing, because the learner then makes that connection to the real world and this is how I can actually put this language to use. And then the strategies come back to play. Right Back to that imperfection. I don't have to know the word for lobster if I'm at the restaurant ordering lobster, but if I know the words for kind of big red fish make my claws, you know, with my hands I can communicate and that's the beauty of it. You can still make yourself known even if your language is not perfect.

Lorie Roule: 15:35

And I did want to say one other thing about learning as an older adult. If you will, you know we have in mind you can't learn anymore. You know you kind of cemented your brain's hardwired. We know that. We know now that the brain is super neuroplastic and can accommodate new things. But I did some interviews with some people a while ago. I think you know this, nora, because I actually had mentioned this to you a while ago and one of the gentlemen I interviewed talked about how, you know, in his adulthood he decided to learn Spanish because the job that he was in he dealt with a lot of Spanish speaking individuals and he didn't learn a lot, he just learned enough for niceties and you know some basic conversation and it opened so many doors for him in terms of being able to establish rapport, relationships, that sort of thing. So for your listeners out there, it is never too late to pick up language and go, for it is really what I would say.

Norah Jones: 16:37

That's a great exhortation there and it was interesting how beautifully you said it's about the humanity right there. It doesn't have to be immediately applied to some kind of practical thing outside of. It's practically fun to be human and to connect to one another. When you used the phrase earlier in this conversation that the government was looking for foreign languages looking for languages in to make a big difference in the national security area, in this particular case, what seems to be the status right now in the United States or and or the world the listeners are outside of the United States as well With regard to governments and businesses, potentially on their own, and also that may serve governmental military procedures. Looking for languages. Are they looking for languages?

Lorie Roule: 17:35

I would say definitely yes. If anybody googled various organizations, both in national security, maybe in elsewhere, but you know we are talking about national security so Google those websites of those various organizations and you will see their language requirements. Not only for jobs where you know like I managed a school, so we obviously have instructors, you have to have the language obviously to have that job but for so many other jobs where language enables you to do a better job at what you're doing, whether that's analysis or collection or technical or whatever, the government definitely is looking for languages. That said, what I would say about the government and based on my own experience and what I've kind of observed, even post government, is and I actually wrote a paper on this for the National Intelligence University a while ago I think we tend to be pretty reactive in government, we're not proactive in thinking about language Anybody. And for readers out there again who aren't necessarily in the United States, but if you just look at the history of the United States or the history of the world, you can pretty much predict those languages that were important at those times German, japanese during World War II, you know, russian during the Cold War and maybe now again Ukrainian, recently Arabic, pashto, you know all the different languages at different sort of major international events and in most cases and again this is out there in the public domain the government's been kind of one step behind. Oh, my goodness, we need Japanese speakers. The military said way back when what do we do? You know, and we're always in that situation of what do we do? Now? We need people who can speak the languages of these countries where you know it's about adversaries, but it's also about allies. It's about being able to work together and establish those human relationships that make the world a safer place at the end of the day. So I would say, yes, government still needs language. That hasn't changed. The world's just that much smaller. The challenges are that much more interconnected. Think Russian, not just about Russia, but Russian and cyber. Think you know Arabic and climate change.

Lorie Roule: 19:43

Whatever the topic is, language really comes into play and I only see that need growing and I would say, you know, I don't think the government's doing a bad job, but I think if it could position itself to be more proactive in things. The other thing and I think this is true in government, but probably broadly too we see it in our school systems as well. We tend to be, as a country, short-sighted about language. Oh my gosh, it's really important. We have to invest in it. We're gonna grow budgets, we're gonna invest in it. Yes, yes, yes.

Lorie Roule: 20:12

We understand that at this given time, japanese is important, and then the problem goes away and the attention goes away, and then we suffer because years later, well, we have a need again. So how do we not be, not only be proactive, but Sustained and mindful? And when I think of education, or I also very much think of the cognitive benefits that learning a language brings To an individual and their ability, then it builds confidence. For example, if you're willing to put yourself out there and make mistakes in another language, you're a great speaker, you can get up on a stage somewhere you know, you have great negotiating skills. There are so many skills that you can that you can parlay from learning language that we tend to forget that, and that's a benefit to our kids and to our future, and yet we cut language programs. What are we thinking?

Norah Jones: 21:05

that sustainability, sustainability you win. You had retired from the intelligence community's work, specific work. You have immersed yourself in advocacy. What are some of the pathways to advocacy for this language future that you are engaged in right now. What can the listeners learn, not only about you, but potentially about what they can be involved in?

Lorie Roule: 21:36

Yeah, I really appreciate that question, norah. I've been a big believer always in an Individual has the power to kind of lead from where they are. As an individual, you know you can only get too far. When you join groups of people, you maybe you can get a little bit further, particularly if they're like-minded people with like-minded goals. So I literally kind of stumbled upon knowledge of the JNCL Nicholas language advocacy day on the hill that takes place every year. We have our next one coming up here at the end of February. I just kind of stumbled upon that. I didn't even know that existed when I was in government. I probably should have but I didn't, and I wonder how many my government could have done that. I wonder how many my government colleagues didn't know that existed.

Lorie Roule: 22:16

But that was an opportunity to go on the hill and you know it's it's a lot of educators, but it's people beyond education like myself, and really speak with our congressional Representatives about the importance of language. And, by the way, I think congress by and large gets this. Yeah, and it's not. It's a bipartisan issue too, which is the beauty of it too. I mean language. You know who can argue with? Language for national security in particular, but really language for just about any sector. People can't really argue with that. Yeah, there is a need for that, no question about that. So so now I go to the language advocacy days every year, representing both my state of Virginia, but I do have a little part-time job where I'm working with a company in New Hampshire that does language learning technology, transparent language, and so I've represented or I've gone and talked to congressional representatives from New Hampshire too, which has really been kind of a cool experience.

Lorie Roule: 23:07

And then I ran into a dear friend of mine from government, a different organization His name is Tom Haynes who, along with some colleagues, were running a state level advocacy group called Global Virginia. And I love the name because it's about the desire there is to make every virginian citizen More than one language in some way shape, no matter what the age, no matter what the language is. You know, some of these people are obviously Not native English speakers but whatever their language happens to be, and partner it with another language For the benefit of the state and our citizenry, for all the reasons that I mentioned Making, you know, being able to be a global citizen, kind of, in the world today. So I've been very involved in both of those groups.

Lorie Roule: 23:53

Um, with global Virginia, I mean, I would do want to put a plug in. We've got a summit coming up. It's a virtual summit. It's going to be held on march 19th and it is open to anyone. So, um, I know, nora, you'll be mentioning the website there Um, our global virginiaorg. People can go there and people can sign up, and that actually has a very specific theme to it. What's the business case for language skills today? How do we marry need out there, particularly for trade economy business, with Skill sets that do exist, and how do we pull those two together? So we're not kind of thinking in terms of stovepipes. So I'm really excited to see what comes of this. We're going to have a couple panels one addressing those business skills or language for business, and the other one addressing language equity and access, which I think is another Super important area in this field.

Norah Jones: 24:50

I'm looking forward to that summit again march 19th 2024, and the website again, Lorie, why don't?

Lorie Roule: 24:59

you. Yes, it is wwwglobalvirginia, all one word, dot org. And the registration link is right there when you open it up.

Norah Jones: 25:09

There'll be information, also with this podcast, on my website, fluency dot consulting. So I invite you to take a look there and follow the rabbit trails there. And so, taking a look at, what is it when you then speak with, engage with, work with businesses or those that Are thinking about this concept Uh, is there a pushback that says, well, english is a global language, so this isn't really necessary? Uh, here in the united states, I know that that is a phrase that is being used to. Potentially it's used about one's own language other on other places. So help, help our listeners to understand what it is that you do and, from an advocacy and discussion point of view, that says the experience of someone speaking the language that you happen to be speaking is not necessarily the fullest expression of what we need, if that, in fact, is what is happening.

Lorie Roule: 26:14

Yes, I mean definitely. There's always that kind of pushback, even among Students who wanna you know, who are in school still in saying, or in college. You know, why should I study language? You know, particularly with a and other things out there, like, do I really need to know other, another language Businesses I think probably some businesses would have that same kind of response to this. I would say our advocacy up until now primarily has been with helping Educators and students understand yeah, just what can you do with a French major in my case, and what does that look like. And you know, not just for national security so, but, like I said, for health, for hospitality, for real estate, for music, for all kinds of things. So that's been enjoyable to work that front of it and, I think, helpful to our educators, in particular with their students. We've said wait over if you will into the business arena, because we do think that you know there been studies out there.

Lorie Roule: 27:10

I think actual did a study about language and business. You know, if you look at our own Virginia statistics, the Virginia Chamber of Commerce actually touted the importance of language in its blueprint for 2030. So there is a recognition. I would say, by and large, that language is important and kind of for a couple reasons here. One is, yes, trade its money right boils down to money, you know, being able to really converse with people in other countries and make deals, etc. Etc. That's an important aspect of it.

Lorie Roule: 27:39

But our country also has kind of a growing Diverse population where, for you know, many people language English is not their first language and they end up being hired by these various companies in these various businesses because they have great language skills. But I've seen now where people who are working other their fellow employees or maybe managers or whatever there's this desire to say I also want to better connect, say, with my employees. You know, I run a group of people that for whom maybe English isn't their first language and, yeah, they speak English. That's fine, but I really want to be able to get a deeper connection with them as a good manager type of thing. So we're seeing some of that occur as well, which is really exciting.

Lorie Roule: 28:27

So I think businesses absolutely should pay attention to our educational system, should be dismayed when they hear a major university is now cut its language majors, for example. And this is a concern of all of us, not just those in education, this is a concern of all of us and for business. You can't on the one hand clamor and say, yeah, having somebody with language skills. I mean I've had businesses say to me All things being equal, on a resume, if the person also has another language, they have a foot up and getting this job, type of thing. So you can't say that on the one hand and yet ignore what might be happening with budgets and things like that and struggling and teacher shortages. I mean that's another huge problem here in so many fields, but in the language field as well.

Norah Jones: 29:18

And one of the words that you used as you were speaking.

Norah Jones: 29:22

There is about deeper connection with, say, the workers that are in a business, and presumably we could talk about those that are in an office capacity In almost any industry, including governmental and military and so forth. When we take a look at some of the aspects of the ways that businesses can struggle to attract and retain good employees, there's a seems to be a connection between a few, if you pardon the expression there between the ability to use language but languages other than, say, english, let's go for that for just a second but also an understanding, through the learning of language, how people communicate and how do that do? Go back to our beginning of our conversation, how to do that listening, that self awareness, that effective questioning of one's hearing, one's understanding. There's a really big picture here of what language can sensitize people within business industry to be able to attract, retain and increase the effectiveness of their employees, just straight up, because of how language works with the human brain. Am I like speaking something that makes sense based on your experience?

Lorie Roule: 30:55

Yeah, absolutely it makes sense, nora. I mean, at the end of the day, I think that language is about connection and human relationships. And think of any business environment. You know, you really have to know how people work. You know whether you're a manager and you're managing people, or you're a colleague and these are your peers, or you know your managers, because there's such a thing as managing up to, but really in a good sense, and I mean that too. But this whole idea of human relationships, language really does come into play and how people think absolutely really language playing such an important role and just understanding one another.

Lorie Roule: 31:36

And when you mentioned the word retention, I think what resonates, obviously salaries are important and those kinds of things, monetary rewards.

Lorie Roule: 31:45

People have to make a living, but I think a primary factor that makes people happy at work, find joy at work, is when they have meaningful work and really have a sense that they belong, and language is a huge part of that.

Lorie Roule: 32:00

So embracing somebody for the background that they bring, the experiences that they bring and the languages plural perhaps that they bring to the job, I think really, whether they're actively using that language on the job or not, you know, I had a story from a friend who does tours, gives tours, and he's a retiree, and he said that you know, it's here in the DC area. So, as you can imagine, we have visitors from a lot of different countries and he knows like six or seven languages. He's just amazing and he knows them all pretty well. And so he has a tour group from Germany and suddenly he's switching into German. You know, this is just a fun activity that he's doing. You know, it doesn't have to be like part of your day to day job. In fact, I have a hypothesis that if you have another language, you will use it. You will find a way to use it no matter what, and I've seen so many examples of that.

Norah Jones: 32:57

Give us one, give us another one.

Lorie Roule: 32:58

So this was a beautiful story of somebody that I interviewed who is a physician's assistant and she doesn't need language for her job. You know she's in a hospital, works in a hospital, but she happened to have studied Spanish and actually did an immersion, I think, in Peru or somewhere she had mentioned to me, for like three months or whatever. So her Spanish was pretty good. And during COVID and she lives in a big city during COVID there were a number of patients who contracted COVID this was in the early stages of the pandemic who, you know, might have been homeless, might not have had much of an income, and here they are in this situation where it's a life-threatening disease and they don't speak English very well, but they speak Spanish and she was able to use her Spanish again not part of her day-to-day job, but she happened to have Spanish to comfort these people, to let them know that they were going to be housed in a hotel for the duration of their illness, to let them know what was going to happen to them, what procedures were going to take place.

Lorie Roule: 34:04

I mean, that is a really that was a story that brought tears to my eyes of somebody who happened to have Spanish, right place, right time using it.

Norah Jones: 34:14

That connection that allows us to be humane under difficult circumstances, even if we are not officially using the language for our work, as you say. Thank you for sharing that very touching story. Laura, you've been and are engaged in this advocacy. How, then, do you feel that others could be engaged in advocacy? What kind of insights would you like to provide, an encouragement would you like to provide to folks who are looking at advocacy at various levels and various approaches? Please?

Lorie Roule: 34:48

Well, there are the formal kinds of things that exist. I mentioned the language advocacy days. That's at the national level. That's open to anybody and, nora, you'll probably put something on your website so people can figure out how they can join that certainly. So that's out there. Global Virginia, which isn't limited to Virginians. So if you want to be a part of that, we absolutely come to our summit. That's what I could say on that. But even at an individual level, I'll give you a concrete example of something that occurred maybe a month or two ago.

Lorie Roule: 35:18

I get newsletters from my congressional representative. You know constituents. A newsletter comes out. It's talking about STEM, which is great. That's important. Those are important skill sets and opportunities for high school students around STEM Wonderful. So I received this newsletter and I think, hmm, why doesn't this congressperson mentioned something about world languages and how important they are? So I wrote to them, got invited to the office. They want to do a roundtable around language. So this is just Lorie Ruhl, private citizen, saying I want to try to do something here within my power to do gets back to that kind of leading from where you are.

Lorie Roule: 35:54

If you're in a business in particular, whether you're a parent or not, why not check out your like local school district and see if you can come talk about what your business does? You know, I don't know if they still have. You know, kind of bring your parent to class days or career days or whatever that might look like, but check it out, go there. The other thing is being also smart about what language learning looks like today. There are some wonderful ways languages being taught that are different from what I experienced years ago, even though I adored and love languages. But you know, people tend people tend to have that. Oh yeah, I failed high school Spanish because you know we were doing conjugations all day long. It doesn't look like that in the language classroom anymore.

Lorie Roule: 36:34

So, being smart about what that looks like, I'll put in another plug for business. If you're in a business, can you offer an opportunity for an internship for a high school student that somehow touches on language in some way, shape or form? That would be a cool thing to do. So I think you know, if I were starting off on this nor and saying how can I get involved, I would look at my immediate surroundings, the landscape around me. Where can I make a difference? Is it a school district? Is it businesses that I know Is it interacting with congressional representatives or local right State level representatives or your local chamber of commerce, but making your voice heard and your voice known is something that's within anyone's power to do.

Norah Jones: 37:22

That it is Well said, anyone's power, the joy that is and the energy that are clearly in your voice as we are speaking, is so much fun. And that brings out another concept here the wonderful pathways that we can follow as individuals to things that we find interesting. And I love, when I talk to guests, to be able to find out what interesting pathways language has taken them that people might not predict. For example, we have on my website the information about you and fluency dot consulting, and one of the resources that is listed there is about reencuentro, taino conference. Tell us about that. That. That Spanish word means what this particular Taino conference is all about.

Lorie Roule: 38:14

Yes, so I was honored to be asked to be part of the advisory board for a relatively recent effort. That was from a dear, dear friend of mine. Her name is Priscilla Cologne. She, with others working with others though embarked on a journey to revive the Taino language, which was a language that so the and I don't speak Spanish. Actually, I'm trying to teach myself Spanish now, I just want you to know that's my next language adventure, but I'm not that fluent. But it really means reviving reviving of the Taino language that was thought to have died like 500 years ago, and it hasn't.

Lorie Roule: 38:55

And people in she's from Puerto Rico and people in that part of the world and in other countries, in the Caribbean in particular, that is the language that their Families spoke, that she's embarked on a revival of, and she held a conference, or she and others organized a huge conference last summer in Puerto Rico with attendees from all walks of life art, archaeologists, artists, linguists, filmmakers. There was so much energy around this effort to revive the language, and the intent is to now move forward with a whole I mean for me, who's a bit of a bystander giving some advice here and there to help her and some ideas to think about Watching how this whole thing Explorished in a matter of just a couple years. She's also written some kids books that are in both English and Taino, english and Spanish or Spanish and Taino. It's just amazing and that kind of set me on this whole aspect of my language journey, which is there are a lot of languages out there that both need Revitalized, that need invested in their endangered languages, and it gets back to that point of belonging.

Lorie Roule: 40:15

Nora gets back to that point of really recognizing people, honoring where they came from and Ensuring that we as humanity don't lose the preciousness of these languages and how people think and etc. Etc. So you know, put out a plug for another organization out there. I know 7,000 languages, 7,000 languages dot org and they're all about helping various languages language communities revive their languages. In the United States that includes many, many Native American. You know languages, as you can imagine as well.

Norah Jones: 40:55

Absolutely, and it's been interesting because I had just recently had an interview with a guest, tim Brooks, with endangered Alphabet's org, and that the right revitalization of languages spoken and written is just fascinating, I think, absolutely fascinating. So there's a pathway listeners for the, the, the joy of that belonging and that identity that's found through revitalization Potentially of both individuals lives has also these groups. You also have one of the resources of reference to the planet, word. Can you tell us about how you got engaged with that and what, how that interacts with what you're Enjoying doing with languages in your background?

Lorie Roule: 41:46

Yes, so Probably my favorite museum in Washington DC is planet word has been around all that long.

Lorie Roule: 41:52

It actually opened during the pandemic but Anne Friedman Was the inspiration behind it and created it and is the head of it, and I was very honored.

Lorie Roule: 42:03

I think it was because our husbands knew one another and somehow the connection between she and me was made and you know, she offered for me to be a member of her Auguste very Auguste advisory board.

Lorie Roule: 42:18

But I mean, this is a museum that is certainly, you know, languages around the world come into play and they've got this great display where you can hear varying languages around the world. But it's also about the love of language itself, the words, the importance of words, how they play in poetry, how they play in advertising, how words are used to convince, manipulate, negotiate it really, for anybody out there, like I do and in fact you know you're in my library here I've got like shelves of books about languages and how languages work. For anybody who's interested in that planet word is a must Must see if you will, and they've got a lot of. You know, if your listeners are in many different countries and can't easily travel to the States, they've got a lot of virtual programs as well that you might want to sign up and listen to on a whole host of topics about the love of language.

Norah Jones: 43:11

Great. I'm looking forward to folks having a chance to look at that and thank you for what you're doing in in Enjoying it and also being part of the board so that it can continue to flourish. Thanks for that dedication to Lorie. We're coming to where that is to finish the conversation, unfortunately, because I just enjoy everything we always chat about. One last question what is it that you would like to Bring up that I had not yet asked about, but that's on your heart, or that you feel is so important to reemphasize? However, you would like to interpret that last word that you make sure that our listeners hear from you as we end this podcast.

Lorie Roule: 43:59

Thank you, nora, for that opportunity, and I loved conversing with you. I do feel like we could go on all day, but unfortunately all good things must come to an end, so it's okay with you. I'd actually like to leave you with a quote from my mom. When I interviewed a bunch of people from different walks of life a couple months ago about Language and how they use their language, and stories like the physician's assistant story that I came up with, I also decided to interview my parents, and my dad had actually learned ASL. Just a quick sidebar, he had actually learned American Sign Language because he had a deaf employee work for him and that was fantastic and you know he took the time as a foreman to learn the language so that he could converse with her, which was so he talked about that. But here's what my mom said language is very important to bring people together. Communication may bring peace. If we can communicate together in a caring and loving way, there will be peace in the world. Thanks, mom.

Norah Jones: 45:06

Please thank her from me, too, and from the listeners. What, uh, what a touching, powerful. And thank you for bringing tears to my eye and voice, and Please do thank your mom for being a person who understands exactly what language can do. What a fine ending. Thank you, my friend, for being here today, for sharing all of your passion and skills, or at least as many as we could fit in in the time of the podcast for everyone. Continue, please, your powerful work and leadership. Thank you for all you're doing.

Lorie Roule: 45:44

Thank you, nora, it was my great pleasure to be here.

Norah Jones: 45:48

Thank you for listening to this podcast with my guest, Lorie Roule. Check out Laurie and the resources and references at my website, fluency dot Consulting, and take a look around in your life and the lives of those you know around you. Where do you see the power of language and culture at work? You, you.