Ep126 Humans, Language,Technology: a conversation with Noemí Rodríguez

Join the conversation with language education innovator Noemi Rodriguez, who draws on her own story of nurturing a childhood passion into shaping the future of AI in the classroom. We traverse the landscape where artificial intelligence and human intelligence are not rivals, but partners in crafting enriching learning experiences. Noemi's insights reveal how AI supports the indispensable human connection in teaching, providing tailored feedback that helps students flourish in language proficiency.

In this episode, we peel back the layers of how AI is revolutionizing the educational sphere, assisting educators with everything from lesson planning to setting students up to speak one-on-one with cultural and historical icons. The nuanced dance between technology and teacher oversight is dissected, highlighting the art of crafting AI prompts and the treasure trove of resources that empower teachers to incorporate AI into their pedagogical toolkit. Noemi also addresses concerns such as student privacy and equitable access, ensuring AI's role in education is both responsible and inclusive.

Finally, we zoom in on the personal impact of technology in education, sharing stories of learners who, against the backdrop of a pandemic, found solace and success through the supportive embrace of educational technology. Noemi also casts a light on adult learners using AI to bridge cultural gaps and reignite their linguistic roots. As we wrap up, we reflect on the broader implications of AI literacy, ensuring that as we step into the future, no student is left behind in this digital renaissance.

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Transcript

Norah: 0:03

Wow. My guest for this week, Noemi Rodriguez, reminds us that education is only somewhat about the content. It's mostly about the human connection teacher to student, students to each other, everyone to the world, especially in language education, the essential human activity, language. Noemi Rodriguez provides us a confident, hopeful and solidly skilled vision of how we move forward in a time of artificial intelligence combined with human intelligence. Enjoy this conversation with my guest, Noemi Rodriguez.

: 0:55

Welcome to Episode 126 of the it's About Language podcast hosted by Norah Lulich-Jones. This episode Humans Language Technology a conversation with Noemi Rodriguez delves into the dynamic interplay between these three elements. Our guest, Noemi Rodriguez-Grimshaw, founder of Lo logramos Consulting LLC, shares her insights on the transformative power of integrating technology in language education. Join us as we explore how Noemi's innovative approaches are shaping the future of learning.

Norah: 1:31

Just in general, it is so much fun to talk to talented veteran language educators and I've got a great one today for you guys to enjoy a conversation with with me, and that is Noemi Rodriguez with Lo logramos. Welcome, Noemi.

Noemí Rodríguez: 1:49

Thank you, Norah. I am delighted to be here. Thank you so much.

Norah: 1:53

It is just a pleasure. I am excited with so many directions we can go, but let's go ahead and dive into something that is on a lot of people's minds. Your expertise is in world language education. You are an educator currently in New Jersey, as well as the founder of Lo logramos, and we've got that spelled on the website. So make sure you go to my website, fluency.consulting, to learn all about Noemi and Lo logramos and to get in contact with her. So you have a lot of things going on that address world language education, and you are really engaged with the technology, including AI. Help us to understand why you are in education in general and how the technology is part of what you do and are working with others.

Noemí Rodríguez: 2:48

So I have always loved teaching, ever since I was a child. I was that person who made her siblings play school in the basement. That was me. And then, when I pursued education in college, it just felt like a natural fit to pursue Spanish language education, knowing that my background and my roots and my abuelas are still in España. So with that connection, I went ahead and started my career as a classroom Spanish teacher and then I transitioned into a supervision role a few years ago, but still kind of kept myself teaching when possible, especially in emergency situations, and happy to do so.

Noemí Rodríguez: 3:27

And thankfully the members of my team know that about me, that I love teaching and I love really seeing the magic that happens when a child begins to truly acquire another language and use it in situations that are spontaneous. That's for me, me the most fun. When I hear back oh, I use Spanish, when I did this or this was so helpful when I was in this situation where I had to express what I needed and I was able to use the Spanish that I had with me. And then technology I've always been fascinated with how to use technology to really better prepare our lessons or like enhance our lessons, looking at it as a tool, not necessarily a replacement of good instruction. So I've always kind of gravitated towards being quote unquote, like techie and liking you know, like, oh, let me play with this or let me try this, or how can this help my students to better acquire the language. That's usually the direction that I would go in before, potentially, you know, using a tool with the students or trying something for the first time. So when I saw everything that was coming up with artificial intelligence over a year ago, I thought, wow, this is just. This is a game changer for us as language teachers, because here we have this very powerful tool that can serve as a thought partner, as a brAInstorming buddy, as a personal assistant for us as teachers who truly need personal assistance.

Noemí Rodríguez: 4:59

The day-to-day gets to be so overwhelming sometimes. And here is this amazing intelligence that can now oh, you need me to help you with this, here you go. Or you need help with this, here you go. So the creation aspect and the originality of it to me was just mind-blowing. And then, taking it a step further, how it can help our kids in their language proficiency. That's when I was like, oh my gosh, so it's me.

Noemí Rodríguez: 5:28

But it's technically a machine, right, and it's doing that one-on-one conversations with all of these kids and I, thankfully, can kind of, you know, stand at the helm and facilitate and watch, you know, my students interact and have these conversations with these bots and get some really rich feedback in real time which they'd never been able to do before. Right, replicating me times 25 is just not possible, but here I have this tool that can help my students at least practice in these spontaneous scenarios as well. And nothing beats right real life and real interaction. Thankfully, we learned a lot after the pandemic and how important it is to be face-to-face and how important, like, humans need each other right, we need we're social beings. So that aspect, this isn't going to be. I look at it, cause a lot of folks tell me like, oh, this is going to replace us. I beg to differ. I think that we as human beings are so incredibly powerful and we can use this intelligence to help us, not necessarily hinder our progress.

Norah: 6:36

With that kind of confidence, joy, power and clarity. I'm delighted that you are helping to take the lead in making that understanding of how AI and generative AI can do those things. That's fantastic. I'd like to actually take some of those pieces and work with them. So the first thing that came to my mind was the image of a teacher. In so many people's minds is this what we sometimes call as those who have been in the educational space know, the sage on the stage and we know that we desire to be the guide on the side, but still that image of the teacher as driving what's going on in the classroom. And you have just provided the visual, the insight of the idea of an assistant and professionals normally have assistants of some kind. What a breakthrough kind of concept to be able to say AI is like the assistant that a professional educator needs. What kinds of assistants do you especially see happening in classrooms around the country and the world happening in classrooms around the country and the world?

Noemí Rodríguez: 8:04

So thank you for shedding light on that particular aspect of what I shared with having a personal assistant and, as you alluded to, we all need help sometimes and many people, in many different industries, have someone ready to jump into action, ready to assist them With generative AI. What I love about it is that whatever you need you can ask it to help you with. So, if you're having trouble coming up with a lesson plan, you're not sure where to start, you have to respond to an email and you're thinking, you know what. I don't have the right words to talk to this parent or to reply to this colleague and I need some assistance here.

Noemí Rodríguez: 8:51

Coming up with assessments, coming up with rubrics things that typically take also to a lot of time. Coming up with tiered reading activities and comprehension questions and listening activities. There's just a lot that we do as teachers and thinking about how, what used to potentially take us a lot of time, like a YouTube transcription right, it takes seconds for AI to listen to the video for you and give you the transcription of whatever that audio is. Like, that's amazing, and then it adds on questions and like I mean, of course, you have to check everything. That's also part of this is that, yes, you have a personal assistant, but your personal assistant might make mistakes, might, you know? Muck it up sometimes and like, oops, that that was a hallucination, oops, that's not correct. Or you know what? I have to check the language a little bit more. I have to make it so perhaps it's a little bit more comprehensible for my students, because perhaps what the AI created was just still too advanced.

Noemí Rodríguez: 9:54

So, knowing that we still have to look at things and still have to make sure that they're of quality before we present them to our students or to our school community, whatever the case may be, that's really important. So we have the assistance, but yet, hopefully, certain tasks that don't seem so daunting to us beforehand. Now we can use generative AI to help us with some of these tasks. And that's really with just building in the confidence I'll say to just start and to just try, because that's when I worked with a lot of teachers. There's hesitation and there's fear, and it's completely valid to have these emotions surrounding this very unfamiliar thing that now exists. Right, how do I, what do I do with this? But just having the confidence or, I guess, the openness to just try and to play and to experiment and to see how it can work for you is a good first step right.

Norah: 10:57

And to use the word play, what freedom and relief there is in using that word. And in your role as a supervisor or as a classroom teacher, colleague, as you would prefer, and in your role with the Lo logramos Consulting. What's a story that you can tell of? Indeed, fear, or confusion or blockage that was turned around when people understood the nature of this kind of assistant, assistant that can actually be playful.

Noemí Rodríguez: 11:29

So I hosted a prompt design class exclusively for language educators, virtually on AI Literacy Day. It was on April 19th. We now have a day in the United States to celebrate AI literacy, and there's a lot of big companies too that are doing so much in the education space with generative AI, and I thought you know what? Here's a good way to hopefully bring some of those folks who are a little hesitant and a little maybe just unsure. Let me help them unpack the prompt design aspect, because that's a skill that, no matter what it is that you're doing, the prompt is so important. So that was something that was, I think, a good first step for folks to really understand the step-by-step process and how important it is to be descriptive, to be narrative in your writing, because you're essentially giving this tool a really nice viewpoint into your mind. So it's learning you and it's understanding you, but it means that those words on the screen, you need to be able to communicate that to the AI tool. So then, that way, you're working collaboratively with your personal assistant and hopefully that personal assistant is putting out what it is that you were hoping for all along. But again it goes back to that prompt design. So that's a great, just place to start, and I also too, I've blogged a whole bunch about setting up different prompts and like example prompts.

Noemí Rodríguez: 13:00

I have a few YouTube videos as well, just to kind of, if you're interested in scratching the surface right, I thought those are very low stake here's a blog post. Here's a five minute YouTube video. So if you're looking to kind of, you know, start to really dip your toe in. There are some nice avenues to explore with that in mind, Phenomenal.

Norah: 13:20

How about the experience for the student? What kinds of directions have you gone in order to make sure that it's being this, all of this, at all times, and some of these companies?

Noemí Rodríguez: 13:46

you really have to, kind of like, go deep in their website to get the privacy information and to really understand. You know what. This website is only appropriate for students who are 13 or older, or this would not be appropriate unless you're 18 or older, so we have to be very careful with that. Unless you're 18 or older, so we have to be very careful with that. With a few of the tools that I've been using, what I like about them is that it doesn't require any identifying information from our students, so our students can just go right to the AI and they can use the power of AI as much as they want to. I know too recently ChatGPT took away the login, so now, same thing, it's open, so anyone really of any age, can go to that website with whatever knowledge they have about using generative AI. But they can use ChatGPT without an account if they wanted to. So that's something like whoa, like that's. That's a big deal, because the other companies, like Microsoft, google, anthropic they still have it still requires a login in order to access that, that space. But with our students in mind, if you're the teacher right assigning something or providing students like, hey, check this tool out, or we're going to use this today to help with our pronunciation or just practice spontaneous speaking. Or we're going to use this to create level text. Or, if our students want feedback on their writing, we're going to put our writing into this tool to get some really nice feedback. I know that we go back and forth with Google Translate and cheating and making sure that what is coming out of our mind right is actually the language that we have, that we've acquired. That's really important that we're not just defaulting to okay, let's just have the AI do everything for us. But having those conversations with our kids about this is this is allowed, right, we can use this, for we can use generative AI to help us here versus this is an assignment that I don't want us to use generative AI. I think it's always better to have the conversations with the students ahead of time, before you get into like you don't want to battle with them about did you or didn't you. You just want to be able to be transparent and forward and say, hey, I know this exists. We're going to use it to help us with feedback, but our first draft we're actually going to go ahead and just write out our first draft that we're going to pump. We're going to put it into, let's say, a class companion tool, for example, and we're going to have class companion help us with our Spanish and give us some really nice, rich feedback about our written assignment. There's definitely a lot again with that personal assistant in mind.

Noemí Rodríguez: 16:34

The same thing goes for your students. Here's access to a tutor 24-7, right. Maybe I couldn't afford a tutor before. I wanted someone to practice Spanish with. Now I have this ability that any time of the day, if I want to jump on and get some assistance with my homework, with something I'm wondering about, I'm not sure, here's a really smart tutor. That didn't exist before, that's free.

Norah: 17:02

And it’s a delight! The delight in your voice is very, very clear in this. Now, many of the people that are listening are familiar with Classroom, either because they are currently educators or because they have young people of their own in classrooms and have gone had a chance to see them. But many of my listeners also are ones that may not have been in a classroom recently, and I'd love it if you could give us a bit of a snapshot of what it they were to walk into a language classroom in which this experience was being realized. What are some of the aspects that they would see?

Noemí Rodríguez: 17:43

So one tool in particular. Anytime I've demoed it, teachers are just like this is amazing, it's called Mizzou. This is amazing. And I imagine that some of these teachers that I've had the great pleasure of working with may or may not have set up these conversational spaces for their students to practice speaking. And here is if you're walking in or if you're like a fly on the wall, you're walking in and you're seeing all of these one-on-one real-time interactions. There's no lag, no one's….you know you can the back and forth. And again, thanks to me as the classroom teacher I put in that prompt.

Noemí Rodríguez: 18:25

I made sure that that conversation was one that was going to target X, Y and Z, because I needed that to happen based on this unit of study, and then my students are able to just go back and forth, back and forth, and maybe we do that for five minutes 10 minutes, right, depending on how much time. Maybe I set it up as part of like a station rotation and like one station is just you chat with the, with whomever it is. that's the chat bot, cause that's also the other cool thing. Like if you wanted your kids to interview Frida Kahlo, you can do that now, like we can bring her back right like anyone. Really, that's. The fascinating part, too, is that these bots can become anyone from history, which is just yeah, that's what I mean, like I would have loved to as a, as a student, like, hey, I can talk to Lionel Messi about how he's doing in soccer, like, and have a one-on-one with him through this bot who's essentially taking on Lionel Messi's persona. We can do that now, which is again, didn't exist. Now it does.

Norah: 19:32

Just a phenomenon, just a phenomenon. Now, I am so resonating with this because we have been going in the direction that a lot of the students that do sign up, at least historically, say that the reason why they're taking a language is so they can talk to someone, and language is a spoken phenomenon. But they're in school and they're expected also to have literacy, and one of your areas of expertise is reading, reading specialist. So you have mentioned a couple of times now about tiered reading and leveled reading. So can you make sure that all of my listeners understand what you're referring to when you say that, and how that is addressed in what you're focusing on here, which is the education in general, but also the technological aspect, and what are the implications for how students then become proficient in the language?

Noemí Rodríguez: 20:24

Sure. So when a student is reading for the first time, anything we want to, as classroom teachers, ensure that it's at least 90% comprehensible to them. Teachers ensure that it's at least 90% comprehensible to them and if it's not, then it's going to be incomprehensible and they're just not going to get anything out of the reading if they're picking up one out of every 20 words. Right, that's just, that's not going to serve a good purpose and we know that, thanks to all of the science and all of the beautiful research that's been done, reading is a very powerful way to help us acquire another language, especially if it's comprehensible and it's engaging. So, wearing that hat and knowing and loving everything that has to do with reading as well. When I came across leveling tools, which creating a text at an appropriate comprehension level and really thinking about here in the United States we use Lexile levels very often and thinking about how many unique words, how many unique expressions are in this particular passage, and knowing what our students already know versus what it is that they're going to be reading, when we're able to tier a text and tell our students ….not tell our students, that's the wrong word ….empower our students to say “You know what. I prefer to read this version or this version or this version because I think that that's going to jive well with my reading level.” So I'm not being set up to fAIl.

Noemí Rodríguez: 21:48

Essentially, and in the past, it takes a lot of time to scaffold a reading and to take, let's say, a really awesome article that you're like. It has so much great information but it's going to be too hard for my students to read because maybe they're in their second year of learning a language. So I can take that article now and level it and go back, let's say, several levels until I get to the most basic of this particular article. So my students are able to get that key information from the article, but they're not reading it at such a level that's just too sophisticated for them. So we're meeting them where they are, which is so important Because, again, we want our classes…we want kids to look forward to coming to our classes.

Noemí Rodríguez: 22:32

We don't want them to be like, oh gosh, we have to read again. Oh, this is terrible. That's why, too, with having students really take the ownership of, “I'd like to read this, because this is good for my level,” getting students to recognize when they do some free, voluntary reading, they open up the middle of the book and they say you know what? This is too hard or this is right on par with me. Then they start to hopefully read some of those readers that are at their level.

Noemí Rodríguez: 23:00

But again, it's all individual and it goes back to thinking about how we can best differentiate for our kids and making it so we're really personalizing their path to proficiency and to ensure that wherever we are because we know our classes are mixed like you could have a Spanish three and it's like, but you're really novice mid and you're intermediate mid and we're all here together.

Noemí Rodríguez: 23:23

So how do we make this work right, like, how do we so that sort of adjustment, making it so the content is accessible to all of our students and when I say language students, I also want to include our multilingual learners in that mix, because the same thing goes for our students who are newcomers or potentially have been here for several years. Right, their reading levels are going to be different, even though they're still quote unquote, in the same grade in that school. So making that content approachable, especially for, like, our newcomer students, and still being able to give them that content, but at the right rating level, is, I think, phenomenal. And again, the fact that we can do this with these tools that are free, like what, like this, hopefully will make it so language doesn't seem so daunting and scary to kids, but making it so it's like yeah, I got this, I can understand this, this is kind of easy. Like this is good right.

Norah: 24:17

Well, “welcome in.” I have two populations I've got questions about. All right, are you ready? All right, at least two, but I'll start with this. First of all, can you tell us a story of one or more students that, either in those particular classes that you have observed or taught, or ones that someone has told you the story about, where students felt, indeed, that they were being given a new lease on language life because of these kinds of tools and approaches that you're speaking to us about today?

Noemí Rodríguez: 25:01

So I have seen some awesome things happen in many language classes thanks to these technologies, but, again, thanks to teachers being willing to personalize the language learning experience for our kids. And I think about one student in particular that I had the great pleasure of getting to know, who arrived to this country as an eighth grader and didn't have it easy, had it pretty tough, but he got through it and at the end of the day, it was the support system of teachers and caring individuals that really came together and unified everything you know that we were doing with him in mind and making sure all of his teachers made sure that, whatever it is, whatever the content was, they made sure that it was accessible to him and they also, too, leaned into very often like his interests and what he likes to do, and just really getting to know him and who he is and celebrating his successes, even the small ones, was also something that we like to highlight as well when we were working with him. So I don't know if that totally answers your question, but like he came to mind right away as someone that we saw with zero English and then, within two years, was just, he was moving and grooving, like he was doing so many amazing things, but that was thanks to the, the support system that he had, and it was also like a pandemic was happening, so that, like that also like added another layer of when, you know, we don't want him to not be coming to school. We still want him to feel connected to us, right, as his community, as his support. 

Noemí Rodríguez: 26:55

So the technology, though…I know where I work too. We're very fortunate that our kids all have devices, so he had access to a device. He had access to Wi-Fi. We use an LMS, we use lots of different tech tools to really, you know, continue to provide access to our kids to all the things. I'd be curious to connect with him, like right now, and find out if you know some conversational English might be helpful through an AI chatbot. Or maybe he's just like I'm good, like I feel very confident because I've been here now for five years, like, I'm good.

Norah: 27:35

That would be fun to know. And something tells me he's probably confident. And then some, that sounds great and what you were talking about, the story too, reminds me of. In my workshops, I say a lot, the most authentic item in the classroom is actually the student, the individual student, and that story so much touches on here's this individual with his interests, his background, his needs, specific needs, his specific strengths, and between the technology and the team, you pull it all together, that's phenomenal. 

Norah: 28:22

The first direction that I was going, as I said, there'd be two populations and touch on the student. Now I'd like to turn to the administrator. Okay, you did an interesting little scenario there where you were mentioning, say, a Spanish three classroom where, in reality, you have someone that is at a novice, that is to say, the “lowest level,” a novice mid, and then you have another student that's quite a bit higher, an intermediate mid on this proficiency scales that we have, and they're all taking Spanish 3. So for those that are taking a look at from a sort of an administrator heart, if they are themselves not an administrator, how do you show what is traditionally considered to be then an outcome that one would expect from the third year of taking Spanish? How does all of this that we're speaking about today fit in with the kinds of expectations of school growth and achievement that assessments show, that grades show, that course selection shows?

Noemí Rodríguez: 29:20

Yes, i's so hard. I'm going to start with that because I think that we all try to do the best that we can, given the amount of time that we have with these students and I've definitely worked with students where I give it my all and yet we've made some progress, but not the kind of progress I'm hoping for at that particular, you know,” Spanish three level.” I think motivations are different amongst our kids. I think our kids, you know, may just love or have like a knack for languages versus others are like I have to be here, I don't really want to be here, which is not the best attitude, obviously, to have in your classroom. Like you're going to hope that you you work with kids that are like “yay language,” but we know that's not the case, unfortunately.

Noemí Rodríguez: 30:12

I feel as if, no matter what you do, as long as you are moving them forward and giving them enough, enough tools where they have some confidence interacting in the language, when they're not, you know, in your classroom setting, I think that's it's like job well done, teacher. You know what I mean. You're trying to set them up for success the best that you can. So, despite what they're coming in with right, hopefully at least they leave your classroom knowing a little bit more and feeling a little bit more confident in using that language in a real setting.

Norah: 30:53

That's great. Thank you very much for saying that. That's what we do just as much as we can, and that was so beautifully said to like just keep moving forward and help everybody else to do that. You know, one aspect that you talked about is you yourself have a background of, if I understood correctly, Spanish heritage, including grandparents there, and when we take a look at adults for just a moment, what kinds of tech do you imagine can help folks that maybe have left school, they're listening to this and they're thinking, can I work with this also and potentially connect with those that they have lost contact with or with cultures that they'd like to learn more about and the language that they'd like to connect with folks? And do it live, not just kind of abstract, but in something where they could really apply it. Can you talk about that a little bit? The ongoing use.

Noemí Rodríguez: 31:52

Yeah, I think, just like our students utilizing and harnessing the power of generative AI, I would say the same for anyone, right? Anyone who's looking to learn a language. You know, you start by putting one foot in front of the other right and just keeping it in motion, and it's really important that we want to keep our minds active, and I think that learning another language certAInly keeps your mind active and, no matter how old, you are right to just give it a try and see how it goes. Tools like ChatGPT can assist you with the back and forth and have some conversational practice.

Noemí Rodríguez: 32:33

Now I say too, like you know, entre comillas, like authentic, because it's not, you're not talking to a person, but it is a spontaneous conversation because you don't know, you can't anticipate what they're going to ask. You can set up the rules and parameters, but there's a lot that's just kind of left to the machine to just ask and figure out and then to keep the conversation going as well. If you have some leading questions, if the chatbot asks you some questions, but I would say just in your personal life as well, like my husband and I, for example, if we're stuck on what to make for dinner, we'll put in our ingredients that are in the fridge and ask ChatGPT for some assistance, because why not right? So even in like, if you're looking to learn a language, if you're looking to you know, great, that's awesome. But then if you're just looking too for some help with some day to day things to just make life a little bit easier and less stressful, that's also something to consider too.

Norah: 33:38

Have you had folks that have been like sheerly afrAId and that you've had to talk them through working with or helping students to work with, either for their own use or for their teaching use?

Noemí Rodríguez: 33:55

I worked with some teachers where, like, AI is still very taboo where they are, and they've said to me that they don't you know, they don't want to risk losing their job over using generative AI in their classroom. So I was like, wow, that's, that's pretty serious if we're concerned about our employment based on, you know, testing or piloting or experimenting with these tools as a classroom teacher. So I think I want to leave that to those that are in charge to start moving forward, because there's so many countries that, like, they're not even questioning it, they're just, I mean. Don't get me wrong, it's good to like have some caution and to like exercise some judgment right and not just like dive in headfirst, but at the same time, we as a country, we as a nation, we serve as a model for so many things. I wonder, when it comes to education right, where so many other countries are like, yep, we're going to infuse this into, we're going to infuse AI literacy into our curriculum, starting in kindergarten. We're going to start pushing in some of those lessons so kids start to under understand machine automation and like how, how to really code and talk to these different programs like that's something which I know many of our schools that's happening right and those conversations are happening. But then I also feel like we still have some schools where it's you know, it's the elephant in the room. Everybody sees it. Why aren't we talking about it?

Noemí Rodríguez: 35:26

And I also respect and understand that there's sometimes a lot on a school administrator's plate. Sometimes there's too many fires to put out where this maybe gets put on the list of things to do but it gets pushed to the very end because there's other needs and other issues that are pressing. I completely understand that because there's other needs and other issues that are pressing. I completely understand that. But I think, if you know that maybe your time gets kind of pushed in a direction where, like you can't focus as much on something like AI in your day to day, then maybe forming a committee of teachers and students and stakeholders and, you know, having just really conversations and dialogue with folks in your school community about how can this help us? Do we want to continue exploring? What support do you need from me? Just like language proficiency, how do we move this in the right direction, knowing that it's not going anywhere and it's only getting better and faster and smarter and more capable.

Noemí Rodríguez: 36:33

It's important though, to recognize that sometimes, as a dear teacher in Vermont, Abelardo, has taught me sometimes it's just good to listen. It's important as a leader to just listen and to just be present and to understand that there's fears and there's hesitation and then, when ready right, it's time to start planting some seeds and getting things moving. But knowing that as a school community you want to grow together, you don't want it. So people feel left out or people don't know what's going on. So taking some strategic steps in that direction is important.

Norah: 37:18

The pandemic seems to have speeded up in some areas… I speak here now geographically … the distribution of devices to students, the making available access to technology in schools, where it had been a little slow, and in my own background there were times where the fact that materials were coming out with a strong and effective technological component helped to drive decisions to increase budgets for such materials or for providing technology. Do you see in your work and in your knowledge of how this has what seems to be a very positive effect on language learners, do you see that listening campaign allowing for the students do have access to devices, but I presume there are other areas that don't. Have you counseled any such areas on how to proceed in this AI world with making sure that all get to play?

Noemí Rodríguez: 38:39

I think that thankfully, most of our schools at least have computer labs. So if they're not in a position where all of the kids have devices or Chromebooks, right, I think most of our schools have access to some sort of computer or technology in their space, whether it's in their media center right or in some sort of other central area. So there is, there are ways to potentially get our kids using that type of technology, hopefully in any school community. But then there's other ways to just think about prompt design, for example, and thinking about just writing a really good prompt and the skill that it is behind writing a good prompt, where you don't necessarily need to use the device to understand the breakdown of that. 

Noemí Rodríguez: 39:35

And then I've attended a few and I think I might do this too with a future PD session. But thinking about just blindfolding someone and walking them around the room or having them get from point A to point B, like you would like with coding right, like you want that. You want to get here. How do you get there? But you're wearing a blindfold. You're going to need a lot of guidance, a lot of assistance. So doing a simple activity like that with your kids to just walk them through the importance of being specific and being descriptive, with prompt design in mind, is like a fun way. There's like a load of other activities, so you don't necessarily need, I guess, technology in your hands at that moment to talk about generative AI and what it can do.

Noemí Rodríguez: 40:15

And I think demoing is also really important. Like most teachers that I've again had the great pleasure to work with, when I start to demo some of the capabilities through the prompts, they're like oh my gosh, like wow, like they have to see it to believe it, and I would say the same for our kids. But then we definitely have other kids that are, like, very well-versed and using it really well already. So then there's that where, like, they can teach you right and they can, like they might be really very informed when it comes to using generative AI. So I also welcome those conversations from those students like here, I can teach you, but you can also teach me. I'd love to learn from you about how you're using it.

Norah: 40:57

Students being able to contribute what they have learned and their own expertise has always been critical, and especially in this age where we might run away scared from something. You know that prompt design… Early on in the AI unfolding and I do mean a couple years ago, which is ancient times from the point of view of AI I suppose, the clarity of thought and of writing, to be able to begin to generate prompts, is in itself a very strong training in efficient and clear writing. And you have mentioned now quite often the role of writing prompts accurately. As a language teacher myself, I'm like that's a really good skill just in itself, right there, and a brand new level of need for it. Am I correct in that? Am I reflecting it?

Noemí Rodríguez: 41:53

I think so. I think, no matter what you're using and what you're doing, the prompt matters and how you go about articulating right everything that's in your mind and getting it to be well-written is very, very important and crucial to the outcome that you're looking for.

Norah: 42:20

That's good to know. I want you now to place yourself physically in front of people in presence of the people in the webinars or presentations that you've done for organizations, just like the recent one that you had done for the American Association of Teachers of Spanish and Portuguese and you're standing in front of a group and you get the biggest wow or the biggest wows. You can repeat what you might have already said that you get a big wow from, but that's okay. What do you get the biggest wows from when you say it? The biggest lights just flashing all around you.

Noemí Rodríguez: 42:51

I think anything that I've demoed teachers are generally like mind explosion in person, which, to me, I'm like yes, this is why I'm sharing, this is why I created Lo logramos officially, because people need to know, and people need to know how these things are working because hopefully it will make their lives a little bit easier. It'll make their students more successful in their language development.

Noemí Rodríguez: 43:14

So it's happened, thankfully, many times, and usually I have folks high five if they're like really excited about a tool and I'll say to them like okay, on a scale of one being the worst, five being the best, how likely are you to use this tool? And if they say five, I'm like high five, your friend next to you, like everybody, just high five. And then we go on to the next tool. Just because it's important for me to also just keep tapping into the teachers that are in this space. Well, if what you're seeing is something that you think is really handy and you can apply tomorrow or next week or go back and share with your colleagues, that's really important for me to also gauge how much they like it and how well it's working.

Norah: 43:59

I am going to be continuing to encourage everyone that's listening, whether you're an educator in the classroom and are listening, or whether you're a person that's like, Whoa, what's going on here? I want to learn more is to go to my website, fluency.consulting, and take a look at Lo logramos there's all the links there and I've got it spelled in the transcript, then the things that I will do as an introduction. Your Lo logramos consulting is terrific there and to connect up with the YouTube videos that you have and with the resources that you shared here, Noemi, so that you can understand more. You don't have to be in a classroom by any means to understand what's happening. And to encourage potentially educators and families and community members to want to make sure that the technology that is coming is successfully used. What else would you like to make sure that you say to people listening you're like and I can't stop today, Norah, until I say, or until I repeat, until I exhort, whatever it is that you want to do.

Noemí Rodríguez: 45:18

I'm very grateful to you for the opportunity to share in this space, on this platform, so thank you to you, Norah, to have the ability to voice what we've been able to chat about today. I do want to also, though, mention that I run a Facebook group. It's called Team Lo logramos. For anyone who is like-minded, interested in collaborating and sharing, I put out Tuesday tips every week to that community of language teachers with, again, the intentionality of no matter what language you teach, we're all on the same team to help each other grow and to soar, hopefully, into new heights with everything that we're doing.

Noemí Rodríguez: 45:53

Social media presence-wise, I have a lot going on between Instagram X, Facebook, and then I have a CI Strategies Camp that's the horizon August 14th and 15th. I would be remiss not to mention that opportunity. It'll be an in-person learning opportunity and, of course, though, I am going to throw in some like tech chats throughout the two days. I can't help myself. I'm working right now with a team of CI strategists and myself and we're setting it up, so it's a very hands-on two days of learning comprehensible input strategies together, so I'm excited for that to happen in the future. And then, yes, keep doing all these things with relation to technology, and again it all goes back to ensuring that our kids feel confident and they're getting a lot out of their language learning journey with us as their classroom teachers.

Norah: 46:49

And facing the future with confidence and recognizing the importance of language in that future, which is something we want to continue to not only guard but to grow Sounds so dynamic. I'm going to continue to encourage people to tap into you and all those places that you mentioned and to find them also on my website so they can follow that trail.

Norah: 47:10

My dear friend, thank you so much for what you have shared with us today the joy and the confidence and that commitment that just makes the world a better place.

Noemí Rodríguez: 47:28

Thank you, Noemi Rodriguez for all you're doing, Thank you.

Norah: 47:30

Norah Appreciate it.

Noemí Rodríguez: 47:31

Thank you.

Norah: 47:33

I hope that this conversation with my guest, Noemi Rodriguez, has encouraged you to have a sense of optimism, energy and positivity in your spheres of influence, in your life and work. Please check out Noemi's information and resources on my website, fluency.consulting, and thank you for what you're doing to bring the positive human touch into everything that we do and are facing in the world. Until next time.