S5E3 Gianny Morales | Making a Home in Two Worlds

Imagine embarking on a life-altering journey through the Mexican desert as a child, and then finding yourself in a new and unfamiliar country. Gianny Morales takes us through his remarkable story moving from Medellín, Colombia to New Jersey, then back, then over again to the US,  offering profound insights into the resilience required to navigate between cultures and languages. He shares how bilingual education played a crucial role in shaping his identity and understanding of the world, ultimately leading him to embrace the richness of living between two nations. Listen to his powerful narrative of survival, growth, and the transformative impact of cultural exchange.

But Gianny’s journey doesn't stop there. We also explore the dynamic evolution of Colombia’s reputation, shedding light on its transition from a country known for danger to one celebrated for its cultural vibrancy. Discussing the importance of finding a meaningful career and contributing to society, Gianny ‘s experiences highlight the necessity of purpose beyond personal gain. Additionally, through the lens of multicultural parenting, we examine how cultural awareness and empathy can be nurtured in the next generation. This episode promises to leave you inspired by the possibilities that arise from embracing multiple identities and fostering open-mindedness in today's diverse world.

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Transcript

0:00:06.2 Norah Jones: My longtime colleague and friend, Gianny Morales, my guest this week tells a story that illustrates experiences of so many. Gianny was born in one culture shifted to a new one as this youngster returned to the birth culture as an older child, continued to learn and grow as a young adult, and to work in the second culture now lives back in the birth culture, back and forth. An experience of culture and language over and over. Gianny is a story of resilience and appreciation. His is a story of the recognition of both the blockages of language and culture and the opportunities. And also powerfully Gianny's is a story of the meaning of language and culture in his identity and in the lives of all human beings. Enjoy this insightful and compassionate conversation with my guest, Gianny Morales.

0:01:09.0 Norah Jones: Welcome to season five, episode three of its About Language. In this episode, we explore the story of Gianny Morales, A man whose life bridges multiple cultures and languages born in one country and raised in another. Gianny's journey reveals the challenges and opportunities of living between cultures and languages. His experiences offer deep insights into the impact of language and culture on personal identity. Join us as Gianny shares his powerful story of resilience and growth.

0:01:43.9 Norah Jones: So, Gianny, you and I are having a conversation today, which has been a long time coming, and I'm really excited for it. And you are actually in your home in Medellin, Colombia. How long have you lived in Medellin? Give us a background history of your various cultural and personal experiences across cultures, including in Colombia and the United States, if you would please.

0:02:14.7 Gianny Morales: So my name is Gianny Morales. I was born in Medellin in a town called Envigado. And I was raised there with my family, my mom and my dad, and a very close community. And I lived there until I was four. And then my parents took me to in the US just before I turned five. And in the US I live until I was 10 years old. Came back to Medellin, did all of my middle school and high school, graduated from high school and then returned to the US when I was 17, on and off like 17. And then I went to go do my college in New Jersey. And then I graduated from college, did some career life in New Jersey and New York, and then came back, [laughter], came back to Medellin and I've been living between Colombia and the US pretty much since 2010. And so, we'll get into this, but it's... The world has changed and it has allowed me to accomplish a dream that, I had since I was a little kid. I wanted to, to live in Medellin and be in the US at the same time. And so that's what I've been doing for the past 14 years, enjoying my beautiful country, my native country, and then enjoying my adoptive country, which is the US And, yeah, I enjoy that very well.

0:04:12.2 Norah Jones: It's part of our experience indeed, that we've talked about how embracing the world as citizens of the world and being able to learn from each other and experience each other has formed the basis for some of the closeness we've experienced, including me coming to Colombia to experience things as much as possible. Well, certainly through your help, but also through your eyes, I'd like you to take a moment. And when you left for the United States, you were at a ripe young age when many young people that we are looking at now here in the United States, achieving the goal of learning English, of entering into the culture is part of the focus of a lot of legislation, a lot of the work that we're doing, a lot of the educational programs. What was the experience that you had when you came at that tender age of almost five and entered into the US scene?

0:05:26.4 Gianny Morales: Yeah, I think that experience created the Gianny that is now. I think that me migrating to the US and that experience of having a culture shock crossing borders, crossing cultures at the age of almost five created this other person that wouldn't have existed in Colombia if you wouldn't have left. So my mother and I went through the Mexican border in the desert for a week, and we touched ground in California. I'm five years old. My mom is 21, 22, and she's as much of a baby as I am. And we don't know anything about the world. We don't know any languages, we don't know any cultures, we don't know any maps, we're just there. And my father was waiting for us in Boston. And that week that we spent in the desert and going through Mexico and landed in California, I still have memories of us going from car to car, walking through the desert, being in a pickup truck with, like covered.

0:06:56.4 Gianny Morales: They told us to be quiet, like I think my mom was like still breastfeeding me, if I'm not mistaken. And yeah, so we landed in California and we go to Boston and then we stay in Boston for like a week. And then my other part of the family, my uncles were in New Jersey. And so they tell us, come to New Jersey there's better job opportunities here. And so my mom, my dad, myself, we've moved to New Jersey and then my American life begins. So, they go, well, this kid got, has to go to school, right? So, they put me in, pre-kindergarten, right? And I'm there just talking my Spanish, you know, [laughter]

0:07:47.8 Norah Jones: Yeah, that is there, right?

0:07:50.3 Gianny Morales: My broken Spanish at that age. My son is gonna, is four and a half years old. And his Spanish is not really that great. So I see myself in another world, in another culture. And at the time the bilingual policies and the model and the idea was to, okay, so we have these newcomers, you know, we're talking about 1986. And so their model was, right, we have all these newcomers and so the idea is for them to learn English as soon as possible, right? And so they did exactly that. They put me in a bilingual classroom, but the whole purpose was for me to learn English as soon as possible. That was just the main purpose, it's just we need you to start talking English and then forget about everything else. And that's exactly what happened. And I go through the bilingual education.

0:09:01.0 Gianny Morales: I learn English. I learned the proper ABCs and my numbers, and then they throw me in a classroom where I just needed to survive and I speak in English. And so at the age of 10, when I came back and I came back to Colombia, my family here were like, all right, well, you need to go to school. And so they put me in a school in big Island. And when they're doing the test, they realize, well, he knows how to speak Spanish, but he doesn't know how to read or write and that, I'm 10 years old. And so they go, this kid has a lot of deficiencies, we're gonna have to put him, instead of fifth grade or sixth grade, we're gonna have to bring him back to fourth grade.

0:10:00.0 Gianny Morales: So I learn how to read and write, and I go through my middle school and high school, and then I develop this passion for Spanish and writing and reading, 'cause I just had so many deficiencies. Like when I came back from the US like my cousins were making fun of me. They were like, why does he talk funny? Why does he... How come he doesn't know how to write? Like he pronounces his las unas instead of La una, like, what time is lunch a las unas, instead of like a la una. And so... And I graduate and then I go back to the US and then at CCM County College of Morris, they're like, all right, so you wanna, you wanna do this college thing. We need to test you. And then they come back and it says, you don't know how to read and write [laughter]

0:10:58.8 Gianny Morales: So, at the age of 20, I just, I'm standing there and I was like, wow, the bilingual education in the US really failed me. And not only in the US but the Colombian too, because the English education here, it's so primitive in schools. I'm not talking in general in like all schools. Of course, there's really good education and bilingual education, but generally, those things, those two models are really leaving kids behind. They're not completing their purpose. And so now in my career, I have a lot of drive to make that right. And by being out there with teachers and the people that we know in our network, like... I wanna be surrounded by the people that are making those changes.

0:12:15.1 Gianny Morales: And, I think, out of all the resources and the different publishers and the different people that have all these ideas and programs and, platforms and whatever you wanna call it, I think the closest I am and the people that identify the most are the people that are in front of the newcomers because they're really the ones that are presenting that true challenge. And when I migrated to the US it was 1985, 84-85, and we're 2024, and they're still dealing with this issue. They're still receiving all these kids from different countries that are coming with the culture and the language and their families. And they have to turn that around. But I think what has changed in a positive way is that they finally understood that stripping a child from what he already learned in those four or five years while he wasn't in the classroom, is very valuable, right.

0:13:30.2 Gianny Morales: And they're respecting that, they're respecting their culture, they're respecting their language, they're respecting their deficiencies. So I think we've made a huge progress in bilingual education. When you see resources that are emphasizing in the native language, let's... All right, so this student or this kid has basic knowledge of Spanish or Italian or French, let's capitalize on that. Let's teach him the right way and use what he already knows to make sure he knows how to read and write. And then once we have that, we can do the second language, and we have a fully bilingual student by the age of 10. And then you can throw in another foreign language in middle school and high school. And, so that's kind of like my multicultural experience in where I stand now.

0:14:44.9 Norah Jones: There are so many layers there, Gianny, and I think that we keep coming back to, you have kept coming back to what could be indeed have been considered and can still be considered a deficiency model. You were deficient when you came to the United States, and then you come back to Colombia and you're deficient again. This is a devastating focus for any human. And the fact that you have continued with your personality, with the support of family, with your insights to continue to push through and go, no, no, it's not a deficiency, it's the base from which we can spring has informed your professionalism so much. When we take a look at, let's go for just a moment, we're gonna get to the programmatic stuff, but let's go to the personal stuff for just a second.

0:15:43.8 Norah Jones: That experience of being considered deficient, what is it that you bring from your experience of how you felt about yourself, and what do you see in young people and where do you see the breakthroughs that help educators, parents, community members, school board folks, whatever organizational members as well as the individual to say, I have skills, I have language, even at a very young age, I have these things. These are... I'm not deficient. I have a different skillset I need to add onto it. What are some of the things that you have noticed based on that gut reaction you're bound to have?

0:16:38.2 Gianny Morales: It just made me really insecure all my life, not being able to be up to par with my peers in my classroom. Because in elementary school, they were reading and writing, and they put you in front of the classroom. And I wasn't able to do that. And in middle school in Colombia, they were reading and writing, [laughter], and they put me in front of the classroom and my Spanish was broken. And same in, when I was in college. Now that I look back at it wasn't a deficiency, it was actually a superpower that it was just there all the time.

0:17:27.6 Norah Jones: So it's a superpower. It was there all the time. And you kept coming against these roadblocks in your life. Then you have entered into, among other things, the world language, community, supported world language publishing, supported world language experiences along with other educational connections. How is it then that you have turned to... Where does it lead you in your work to help to remind educators or, and others, and those in the schools that they do have this superpower? How has that shown up in what you do and what you bring?

0:18:13.3 Gianny Morales: I think we've talked to this personally, and there's a personal mission as a person, like you say, I wanna become this in life where like, I wanna become a parent. I wanna become a good husband, or I wanna become like a good brother. Like those purpose and missions in life, like people usually have them very clear. Your career purpose or mission, it's very hard to understand. It's very hard to achieve. There's actually people that never achieve it. They're just like, I wanna be rich. Well, get in line bro, because so do I, [laughter] It's just like, becoming rich is not a mission. It's not a purpose, for our... The overall society, like, it's great, but in personally, internally, besides making a lot of money, like how are you gonna contribute to society through your mission and work? I didn't.

0:19:15.0 Gianny Morales: I didn't find that until I met you and you were my mentor and you were the leader of the department we were in. And here I am coming with, I wanted to be a teacher and I went to school to become a teacher, and I was actually in the classroom for a week, and I said, I absolutely hate this. The passion is there. I wanna make a contribution to society. I wanna do right to these things, to these students. And I wanna break that bilingual education system and do it right. But this is just not for me. And so I went, I wanted to stay in education and I found a way to stay in education and our roads crossed. And you showed me that, yes, we are in a commercial world.

0:20:16.6 Gianny Morales: There's profits to be made, there's a bottom line that we have to reach, but what are we ultimately doing in what we do? Why are these people getting out of the classroom, leaving their teaching career behind and creating new resources? Why are they doing that? And how... And if they're doing that, are they doing it right? And if they're doing it right, how can we get together and bring them into the classroom to change the education system for the better and change these teacher's lives, and then ultimately change the student's life forever? Again, I was that kid that the resources, the model wasn't there. The teachers weren't there. The system was broken and I had to grow up with all those deficiencies, if there's someone there that's creating resources that can change all that, we're contributing to that mission.

0:21:15.5 Gianny Morales: And I never saw it that way. I never saw that being out there talking to teachers, talking to district, talking to private school, talking to our network, trying to like the, you know, talking to these heroes of our society, which are the educators on all different levels, you know, that I was actually doing the work that I was intended to do. And so one day, I was just like, wow, like my career actually has a purpose. And I'm gonna do this for the rest of my life. This is what I want to do. If there's a resource out there that I believe in, I'm gonna do whatever it takes to get it into the classroom. And it's not easy because you're ultimately dealing with a lot of politics. You're dealing with a lot of budgets. You're dealing with a lot of decision makers. You're dealing with a lot of ropes that sometimes don't come through and, but you keep fighting. And that's like what I, you know, I, that's how I found my purpose.

0:22:26.5 Norah Jones: That purpose lived out. One of the investments that you keep making in growing that purpose is that invitation that you just make in general in your life to people and understanding who you are, who others are, just that welcome to increase knowledge across cultures. And that was one of the things that was such a joy to be able to accept your invitation to learn about Columbia, to come to Columbia. In this case, I came with a grandchild who was, had been taking Spanish. And to be able to experience the Colombian culture, at least to as much as we could fit in through your eyes, and to honor the identity of Columbia. And its commitment to its own wellbeing. And there was a dignity there that preceded the visit, both of yours personally, of course, but also your pride in the dignity of Colombians reframing, rewording, providing a new language for what Columbia was and what it was going to be. What kind of we'll start with Columbia but bring in anytime you like, what you see in the United States, if you wish, but with Columbia is, how is it that people told a different story about Columbia and changed things from this perspective that you have shared with me and with others?

0:24:12.6 Gianny Morales: It's a very sad beginning and a happy ending. Columbia was always seen as this not to go place. It was seen as dangerous. It was seen as people that weren't welcome. It was seen as something that you would just never want to visit. And I remember being in New Jersey and seeing the news, and it was just another car bomb. The mafia's taken over the country. The politics are corrupt. There's people would ask me, is it, are there actually cars in Columbia? Do you have stoplights? Do you have electricity? And it was, and we just got this stigma. And when I came back, I came back in the early 90s and narco terrorism was at its highest. So it was true. It was such a dangerous country to live in.

0:25:21.0 Gianny Morales: And we had left military, we had right military. It was just wars on all fronts. And then in the early 2000s, when I went back living here in Columbia, yeah, all those things were true. But it was also a magical and wonderful place to live in. I wouldn't change the experiences that I had in my country and everyone was so happy. Everything was just so joyful. People were so nice. The weather was incredible. The nature, like all those experiences in my teenage years, everybody, like all my friends were just like party and walk together and go on camping trips.

0:26:10.9 Gianny Morales: And then I go back to the US and I realize again that they have this image of us. And so now I have my American friends and I want to bring them over to Columbia. I'm like, listen, this vision that you have, or this idea that you have of Columbia is not true. It's just really not like we have cars. We have stuff like, listen to American music, we have malls, we have American things in Columbia, you guys should come and visit. And they were like, no way, we would never do that. Like, come on for spring break. We just go for five days. And we lost part. No way, my mom and my dad would never let me go to Columbia especially Medellin. And you would hear of people coming to Columbia but they would go to Bogota because it is a capital.

0:27:07.8 Gianny Morales: And like I would be on the plane and it would just be all Colombians. And then I would see an American, I'd be like, wow, an American is going to Columbia. Oh my God. I need to talk to that person. I need to talk to them. I wanna know why he's so brave and what he's coming to do. And we would never see Americans like we see them now or any people from any other country like Europe. No, we were just in our own island. No one wanted to visit us. And that just made me so sad because we had so many things to offer. Yes, we lived a violent world, but we had so many things to offer the world. And people didn't wanna see that.

0:28:01.2 Gianny Morales: And so things changed for our benefit. The government became more stable. We opened our doors to the commercial world. And one by one they started taking the risk of coming and visiting us and seeing for their own eyes that we did really have a magical world. And we had these all great things that they could experience and be safe. I consider it an accomplishment for you to come here because one, you're my friend, two, you're my mentor, and three, we share a common goal, which is to open borders, talk about multiple culture and how can we make things better? And by you coming and visiting me with your niece, and for you to experience that firsthand, for us to be able to go and drive through the mountains and be safe and experience this world that was something great, was something that I always wanted. I always wanted to bring my friends and someone that didn't know anything about Columbia and change their perception of it.

0:29:33.3 Norah Jones: You are the consummate host, no question about that. And the things that we saw together, including reviewing some of that history and yet celebrating the growth and the newness and the commitment that Colombians have was life changing for me. Comes back to that, you described there in that moment of the Colombian perception about, again, the deficiency model and newcomers of all kinds, newcomers to cultures around the world, newcomers to language newcomers that come into any country and have to begin again, have these challenges. What are the key things, Gianny, that with your very touching things that you said, your commitment, your recognition that this was then your destiny to be able to help in this world of bringing people opportunities. But have you seen as the key things that are happening that help newcomers, however we define it, to enter into bringing their gifts and avoiding that deficiency model that you've experienced in various different ways?

0:30:47.5 Gianny Morales: It needs to start with the family first. So we need to educate parents of not being embarrassed. That's the first thing. I remember my parents being embarrassed of them being Colombian and not being able to speak English. I think at some point they still are. And so one thing is, teach the parents to be proud, to be proud of the language, to be proud of the culture, to be proud of what they're bringing and teach people in our society to open up to what they have to bring because one thing is to be very proud, but if nobody's listening to you, then there's no two way communication. And different languages, different culture brings really good things. I understand the prejudice and I understand the resentment, I understand being jealous of maybe someone else trying to change the culture, but it's just those things rarely happen. If someone else is bringing something new to the table, it's just actually gonna contribute to our society.

0:32:04.3 Gianny Morales: And then in an ideal world, it would be that to educate the parents to tell their son or daughter to be very proud of what's going on in the house. This is the food that we eat. This is the language we speak and this is what your grandmother told us and this is our religion. And you need to be proud of that. So when the child goes into school, she brings this flag that she's waving very far up, and that's going to replicate a wave that the other students and children are also doing the same. I have an example in my own family. My stepdad is Muslim. And so when my brother was born, he was very proud of his culture and his language. And, but he took it to the extreme because my mother is Colombian. And so he blocked my brother from receiving any type of Spanish cultural language, anything that would let him be a participant in those two worlds.

0:33:33.6 Gianny Morales: So he, my brother, he is in his 30s now. He's a wonderful person. But he was robbed from that privilege of learning Spanish, understanding the music, understanding the culture, understanding the religion. And I think he knows that. And funny enough, he's still one person that travels the world the most from our family. And then you have my sister. So my mother grew wiser, and she's like, well, you're not gonna do this with my daughter now. So my sister is American and Columbia as she can be, she'll speak in Paisa and she'll eat the beans and she'll love the arepas and she'll dance the salsa. And she speaks perfect Spanish reads books in Spanish, and they're two different people. They really are. And so I see that difference and it's just it's so sad that my brother didn't have that opportunity. And I think that he travels the world so much that he's trying to gain that momentum and gain that experience. But they're both live in New Jersey now. They're all Americans and... But yeah, it's, you know, it just shows you that if that empathy, that awareness, that knowledge is not in the household, things can go out very wrong.

0:35:25.7 Norah Jones: Getting that support for that household to be given permission to do that and to not feel pressured or shamed out of that support. And then you add personalities in which do things anyway. You have an absolutely wonderful young son. And so you are here now as a father with your son and all of the things that are of value to you that you have learned, that you've committed to. What are some of the ways in which what you have learned are playing out in how you approach the world with your son?

0:36:07.1 Gianny Morales: My son is very privileged. It's so much that I actually like turn it down a knob and show him the, sometimes I wanna show him the reality of the world. But yeah, he was very privileged in the sense that he was born into a multicultural household. So his mom shares the same experiences as me. She was brought to the US pretty much at the same age, same experience crossing the borders, getting into New York, her family, we lived in New York, struggle as immigrants, came back to Columbia, did some education here, then went back to the us. And so it is just like, we share the same background and experience. So when we were gonna have our son, we understood that we needed to bring him into empathy and culture and language and all these great things. But we also made it very clear, okay, he's gonna live in Columbia but we're gonna make the effort to speak in English, to teach him phonetics in English, to make him aware that he has a family in the US.

0:37:35.4 Gianny Morales: And so we just speak to him in English and everything is in English. And one of the things we're dealing with now is that he's going to another school. It's a Canadian school, which is really good. But one of the requirements is for him to be able to speak in Spanish and his Spanish is broken and so is his English. Yeah. He's a kid. He's confused in the two languages. And that's perfectly normal. It's just gonna take him a while to get there. But what I ultimately want from him is to take the privilege that he has of being able to... Well, he was born in a multicultural household, and to capitalize on that, and in the future, create empathy wherever he goes, to be able to understand and welcome a different person from a different language, a different country, and understand whether that person is poor or rich, treat him the same way.

0:38:56.9 Gianny Morales: That's essentially what we're trying to gain here. We're trying to gain people that have empathy towards one another, that are able to understand that countries bring different things and whether we like them or not, we just need to understand them and say, Hey, why is this person behaving this way? And you can only do that by creating empathy and language, being able to understand cultures and things like that creates that empathy. And so when my son goes to college or he does his career, I want him to always walk into the room and be able to identify, okay, why is this person behaving this way? It's how can I empathize with this person that may not be able to understand that's why I ultimately want with my son.

0:39:56.7 Norah Jones: What do you want for the world, Gianny Morales? What are you inviting the world to do? What is it that you want to be sure that people hear from you about what you have learned and what you wish for, for this planet?

0:40:13.2 Gianny Morales: I want empathy. I want us to create more empathy. And again, I can't stress this enough. You don't have empathy when you're not... You don't open your ears and try to understand what the other person's talking about. It's not a matter of if I understand your language or not, those things are way in the past. So my friends, I told them one day, my friends here in Columbia, that don't speak another language. They were they feel intimidated and embarrassed and because they're not able to speak English. And I told them listen, AI is coming, and one day you're gonna wake up and believe it or not, you're gonna be able to speak English.

0:41:06.2 Gianny Morales: You're gonna be able to hear it and read it. And this is gonna be simultaneous translation. So you're gonna be able to communicate with other people without embarrassment. And so the language barriers cross we can communicate with anybody in the world at any point. So it's don't, let's not bring up the excuse that I just don't understand his language. No, that doesn't exist anymore. It's just that you don't wanna listen, you don't wanna open your ears. That's different. You know, you're not welcoming, you're not welcoming to change your perception of another country or culture.

0:41:47.1 Norah Jones: What an important insight right there. It's at the foundation of a welcoming psychology, welcoming personality. I would on behalf of the experiences that you and I have had together, I would encourage anyone listening to hi themselves over to Columbia specifically to experience that such a wonderful and indeed joyful culture very relationship centered culture. But whether or not it's Columbia per se or some other place that is near or far that can do that to enter into that experience, to take that chance, to have that foundation of, in order to learn about the other, I will put myself somewhere that I'm not familiar with and be open to how it is that those folks experience their lives. That's certainly something that you have experienced and that you brought to your family and that you welcomed me into in Columbia, and that your work welcomes others into and sets up for that commitment that you have to building empathy. What are some last things that you wanna make sure that folks hear from you, Gianny, as we finish up this podcast today?

0:43:13.6 Gianny Morales: Well, I've listened to your podcast, Norah, and you have very well spoken people that pronunciate very well their words. And don't butcher the pronunciation and grammar structure like I just did. So I hope they can forgive me for that. But no, I don't know what else to say and like, let's just, a lot of your audience is, they're just like us. They want the same things. I think we just need to work together, keep creating tools that are beneficial for our heroes, the educators, and bringing in those tools and resources to the classroom or to their homes or to their careers, whatever you wanna call it, is it's the ultimate goal. It's the, that's how you change the model and you break the system and you create better people.

0:44:32.4 Norah Jones: Thank you for the commitment to doing that, Gianny Morales, you have helped to open those doors in so many ways that I hope that you will continue to see how you've changing and have changed the world for the better and bringing that empathy and that welcome to everyone. Thank you.

0:44:55.1 Gianny Morales: Thank you. 

0:44:57.0 Norah Jones: I hope you enjoyed this conversation with my friend and colleague, Gianny Morales. To learn more about Gianny, go to my website fluency.consulting, and there you'll see all of my podcasts and you can download them and check on all the resources that all my guests offer in their interesting lives and work in language and culture. Until next time.