The Voice of French-Speaking Africa

What happens when a team of passionate French educators travels to Côte d’Ivoire (Ivory Coast) to create authentic, lived-experience-based resources for teachers across the U.S.? In this episode, Norah Jones speaks with Steve Sacco, Megan Diercks, Jessica Ayer, and Jeff Loughary about their month-long Fulbright-Hays project and the powerful impact it’s having on curriculum, culture, and connection.

Together, they explore:

• Why Francophone Africa must be part of French language education
• How to move beyond “celebratory multiculturalism” to truthful, anti-oppressive curriculum
• Real stories from Côte d’Ivoire (Ivory Coast) —cacao plantations, marketplace conversations, and moments of cultural connection
• The classroom resources being developed (coming soon, free through AATF)
• How travel, language, and vulnerability shape us as educators and global citizens

You’ll hear how Jessica’s visit to a cacao plantation transformed her teaching, how Jeff’s unexpected conversations challenged stereotypes, how Steve facilitated constant pivots on the ground, and how Megan is guiding AATF’s commitment to centering La Francophonie in meaningful, accurate ways.

✨ This is an episode for teachers, curriculum developers, language advocates, and anyone who believes in the power of authentic cultural learning.

About the Guests

Steve Sacco – Professor emeritus of French & Italian (San Diego State University), consultant, and co-leader of the Côte d’Ivoire project.
Megan Diercks – Executive Director, American Association of Teachers of French (AATF).
Jessica Ayer – French teacher, doctoral student in curriculum & instruction, focused on the cacao industry and post-colonial realities.
Jeff Loughary – French professor, teacher educator, and PhD candidate focusing on linguistic human rights and language variation.

Key Themes

• Centering Francophone (the French-speaking world) Africa in French teaching
• Authenticity in curriculum development
• Storytelling as a bridge between cultures
• The power of language vulnerability (like using Bambara in the market!)
• How travel transforms educators
• The relationship between colonial history and modern cultural identity

Enjoying the Conversation?

✨ Follow It’s About Language on your favorite podcast app
✨ Share this episode with a colleague or friend
✨ Explore more at ItsAboutLanguage.com

Contact Norah :
fluencyconsulting@gmail.com

Website: https://fluency.consulting
Your journey to discover the richness of language starts here. Join us on the website and embark on a learning adventure like never before!

Social Media Platforms :
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/FluencyConsultingLLC
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fluency_consulting/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/NorahLulicJones
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fluency-norah-jones

Transcript

Norah Jones

Well, busy lives can sure narrow our time and they can narrow our perspective. Language and culture open vistas to hear the sounds that others hear, see the sights that surround them and to experience what brings others joy and energy. And that can add to our own deeper understanding of the world. Today's podcast is a story about how a grant provided educators to do just that, to explore a deeper understanding of the world by going to a region in the Ivory Coast, a French-speaking country of 33 million in West Africa. Their project was to create quality teacher resources to be shared with French teachers. But the stories they heard and the experiences they lived provided them far more than they dreamed. Language does that. As you listen, think of your own life: What roles have language and culture played in making you a resource for a world of increased understanding? Enjoy the podcast.

Norah Jones (01:15)

Well, it is my great pleasure to welcome Jessica, Jeff, Megan and Steve to the podcast today. Welcome everyone. And I'm delighted to have you here to talk about your experiences.

Steve, why don't you start us off by introducing yourself and telling an overview of what it is that has happened that has brought you guys here on the podcast today.

Steve (01:37)

Okay, hi, my name is Steve Sacco and I'm a professor emeritus of French and Italian at San Diego State University and also have my own consulting company. And three years ago, I approached Megan about ⁓ working together to write grant proposals for the AATF. And out of three proposals, this one was funded. And this is the one that really, really was important to us because we wanted the opportunity to create materials that would be available to students and teachers worldwide that focus on Francophone Africa and the French language used in the context of their continent because French is the most widely spoken European language in Africa. And Africa right now is on its way to become the new China. So more and more our students in French are going to need to think in terms of possibly working for companies in Francophone Africa.

Norah Jones (02:38)

Thank you so much, Steve, for that. And Megan, would you introduce yourself and how you are engaged with this project?

Megan Diercks (02:44)

Sure, my name is Megan Diercks and I'm the executive director of the American Association of Teachers of French or AATF. And like Steve said about three years ago, he approached me about writing some grants and I said, I'm a little busy, maybe later. And he said, no, no, no, we have to do this. And he was right, we had to do this. And so our proposal was to take a team of French teachers and curriculum writers to Cote d'Ivoire in West Africa and give them some freedom to explore different topics and create curricular units that we can then polish and put on the AATF website free of charge and available to everyone. And this was really something that spoke to my heart because there are a lot of French teachers that are very comfortable teaching France, they're comfortable teaching Quebec, Belgium fine, Switzerland fine, but Frank-Fo in Africa is really tricky. Not a lot of teachers have the resources to go. They don't really know what to do, they either go as a tourist, but they don't really learn in depth like we had the opportunity to do. And so being able to assemble this absolutely magnificent team of educators, it was just a unicorn team. They all got along the whole time. It was amazing. And to have them go and be able to explore the topics that were of interest to them and then create units based on, units or activities based on that.

It was just, it was a really special experience. And I came out at the end and just had a great time meeting everyone and seeing what they had learned in country and then being able myself to experience some of the richness of this little known in America country.

Norah Jones (04:24)

Very exciting concept and just so imaginative in realization. Jessica, would you introduce yourself and what role have you played in this adventure?

Jessica Ayer (04:37)

So I'm Jessica Eyre, I'm a French teacher. I also teach ⁓ Spanish sometimes to maintain my full-time status. I teach in a small town in Lunenburg, Massachusetts, which is about an hour from Boston. And - I am the only French teacher, so I do all the levels. And I was moved to do this kind of work in general because over the years and certainly more in the last few years, I've had a lot of students who have come from African countries or their parents come from an African French speaking country or from the Caribbean area. have students from Haiti who have moved to the United States and focusing on France is a disservice and is to them and they need to see themselves in the curriculum and this has just been something I've been trying to do for many years and it's a lifelong journey because I can't know everything about all these places and I'm in a doctoral program at the University of Florida in curriculum and instruction and one of the really big shifts for me that I've learned in that program is that there's celebratory multiculturalism and then there's looking at the world through an anti-oppressive lens while honoring and celebrating the cultures and communities in those locations, but also being certain to name the colonial legacy that persists, and you know, doing both at the same time so that we're not just presenting to students an idealistic world of harmony, of ethnic diversity throughout the world and of the French speaking world where everyone is very happy to be in that situation. We have a lot of changes happening with France being kicked out of ⁓ militarily ~ in Africa, have  French being removed as an official language from Mali, and being able to make sure we address that when we're telling our students so that we're not presenting French as this language that everyone has peacefully accepted. And so that was my motivation for traveling to the Cote d'Ivoire. How can I teach students about a continuing colonial legacy that exists in Cote d'Ivoire. And yet at the same time, not present this as a sad story, but throughout, but to celebrate their identity as they see themselves as best that I can as an outsider.

Norah Jones (07:33)

Jessica, thank you so much. I really appreciate the depth with which you have shared that notion of making sure that the celebratory is balanced with the reality of some of the experiences of the post-colonial experience. Thank you very much. Jeff, would you introduce yourself and let us know what it is that you did in this amazing project?

Jeff Loughary (07:57)

Hello everyone, my name is Jeff Lowry and I teach French at Missouri State University in Springfield, Missouri. I also work with teacher certification candidates in the education program and I'm the dual credit liaison for high school teachers across the state. And I've just finished a two year term as president of the Foreign Language Association of Missouri. So now I'll be the advocacy chair and past president for the next two years. I am also a PhD candidate at Indiana University of Pennsylvania where I am focusing on applied linguistics and specifically linguistic human rights. And so when this project came to light and I heard about the application, I knew I had to apply. I've never been to Africa. I was dying to go. And my main purpose was to meet real people and bring back real stories for my students to enhance the curriculum that we have so that we can branch beyond what draws our students to the French program, which is, of course, Paris and the Eiffel Tower. And we want to move beyond that to include other areas of francophone world. ⁓ so my participation was, ⁓ you know, just a really beneficial thing for me personally, but also for the French program at my university.

Norah Jones (09:05)

Thank you very much, Jeff. I appreciate that. And one of the things that you were mentioned there, Jeff, is the idea of real stories, real stories. Do you have a particular real story or two that you're like, and that's one of those things I was looking for, I'm so glad I'm here...?

Jeff Loughary (09:25)

Yes, I had the opportunity to talk with many real people and of course we started with our English partners at the university where we were based and we made a lot of real friendships with people and connections that I think will carry on into the future and I think one of the turning points for me was a small time where a man took me by the hand which surprised me. I learned later that that's a very cultural thing but he took me by the hand and he sat me down on a bench and just started asking me very sincere questions about how Americans view Africans and what the stereotypes that I had heard were. He wanted to know how we could break those stereotypes down and also how to ⁓ encourage Americans to have a real and authentic view of Africans. And so for me, that was a really special moment because the questions he asked me were very unexpected.

And when I tell my students about that conversation, they of course have their own questions. And so the story continues on both sides of the ocean. And so that for me is a really very special connection.

Norah Jones (10:32)

That was beautifully said and I have so many interesting follow-up questions, think, from that. Jessica, though, I want to turn to you with the... Did you know, is one of those stories that I definitely am going to be here for and taking home.

Jessica Ayer (10:43)

So there are so many. So my, didn't actually state what my focus of my unit was when I was there. It was on the cacao industry. And I was sort of like always the person when anything, anyone brought up cacao, was like, where's Jessica? And we were able to visit a plantation and see how cacao is harvested, which in itself is a wonderful experience for students to see, and they're gonna see videos of me and my colleagues that were in Cote d'Ivoire, know, really participating in that process and learning how to do that. Because we so often are divorced from our food, where we don't even know where it comes from. So that in itself is an incredible lesson. But then I also interviewed a person whose father, excuse me, grandfather owned a plantation. So he grew up on a cacao plantation. And this is probably one of the most moving moments, I would say of the trip for me as it was towards the end as well. He talked about the pride that he felt when he knew that he was the one that had planted one of those cacao trees and watching it and weeding it and caring for it and how not only did he feel pride, but he felt that his parents were proud of him for being a good worker and for participating in that. He was not, and I want to make sure I state, he was not a child laborer. It was an afternoon fun event. He was very clear that he did not, he couldn't carry the the pods because they would be too heavy and there are certain activities that he wasn't allowed to do because it was too dangerous. But it was just a moment of happiness and joy for him and for students to see that this is something that is alive, that they make a living doing this and that they are proud of the work that they do and what they produce. There's other pieces to it that we get into, is our, know, how much profit are these planters making from the chocolate bar that you're eating, which is unfortunately pennies. And we get into that too. But being able to film someone who actually tells the story of working in the plantation and hearing music and dancing and ⁓ that it just brings it to life. And yeah, that was a very moving moment for me.

Norah Jones (13:41)

Wonderful and I can see in watching you as you tell that story how moving it is. As I move forward with asking some more questions about some of the items that you have talked about here in your relationships in particular, I'd like to turn the to Megan and Steve and say can you make sure that our listeners understand what resources you were looking for them to come back with and how these experiences and stories fit in to the resources that were decided on and how they were assembled, created, and how they're being used.

Megan Diercks (14:20)

So the resources are still in the process of being created and then they'll be proofread and then posted on the AATF website. But it was really up to each team member to pick a focus that was of interest to them. So Jessica was cacao, Jeff was swang, I believe, if I'm correctly. So each participant could choose what they wanted to do and then create either a unit or there were a couple of people who created some add-on activities for different typical high school French units, some activities to go with food. So if you didn't want to revamp an entire one of your curricular units, but just supplement it with some special Cote d'Ivoire focused activities and information, then those will be available as well. But we're looking at videos and IPAs and other curricular resources. And those will be available on the AATF website in a way of a special category in our store called Resources, and those will be available free of charge to everyone. So you don't have to be an AATF member in order to access these resources. But once they all come in and are proofread, then I'll have a better handle on what they will be. But they will be robust and they will be accurate because they were created by this team who actually lived these experiences and did research while in the country.

Norah Jones (15:39)

Thank you for that clarity. Appreciate it very much. And when I turn back to you, Jessica and Jeff, when you were taking a look at these resources and building them with your team, did you find that you had to pivot a little bit based on the experiences that you had or that there was content or anything else that you would address that was like, we weren't planning on this, but this clearly needs to be part of what we accomplish?

Jessica Ayer (16:06)

Jeff, do you want to start with that or?

Jeff Loughary (16:08)

Sure, I'll jump in. I definitely had to pivot on my project. My original plan had been to focus on the regional languages and we all were given the opportunity to  have a Bambara class every morning and that was very beneficial. It put us back into the mindset of a student learning a language with fresh eyes and complete confusion and it was a very uncomfortable experience of course, but it was very real and it brought back a lot of memories of when we first started learning, you know, French or other languages. And so my original plan had been to focus on all of the regional languages that were there. And I had this beautiful plan to find authentic resources. And we were going to go to the bookstores and find the stories that were written in Bambara and Baolei. And ⁓ the reality was that there were only three bookstores listed in the whole city of San Pedro where we were based. And two of them were closed permanently.

And the third was nothing more than a warehouse with one table or maybe two tables of books. And most of them were actually from France. And so there wasn't much that I could do with that project. So therefore I pivoted to slang and the slang that's very common in Cote d'Ivoire is called Nucci. And so we, of course, we heard some slang. We heard it on TV, on the radio, and we also heard it in the marketplace. And of course, with our English partners, they would tell us different words and phrases. And so my project morphed into more of an IPA based on slang. And so my project then helps American French students see how their language use changes based on who they're talking to and how all cultures incorporate slang at different levels of society. And, you know, how we have very little control over how languages change. We are part of that change, but we really just kind of move along with it. And so my project returned from, again, regional languages to slang that is more universal. And it was really ⁓ an interesting pivot for me because I was not expecting it.

Norah Jones (18:15)

That's great story. 

Steve (18:15)

Can I mention a pivot too?

Norah Jones (18:16)

Of course, Steve.

Steve (18:18)

So my pivot was, first of all, we had a curriculum for the Department of Ed. They want to see everything from day one to day 28, every hour on the hour, which is always a nightmare. So as we would go along, people would say, I need more of this. I need for us to pivot so we can study this or that so they might bring it up in class or they came individually to me. And then my job was to ⁓ go to my counterpart at the University of San Pedro and to see if there was an expert who would be able to speak about that so that we could make some of these pivots. So if you look at what our daily schedule ended up being is probably maybe a 20 % overlap because all the changes that the scholars needed in order to do their projects. So that was my job is to get them what they needed and stay out of the way.

Norah Jones (19:19)

That's really neat that you had that or you took, made a great effort to make sure that flexibility was part of the whole experience so that it could move forward effectively where they were really, where you really were. Jessica, how about you? Did you see a pivot?

Jessica Ayer (19:35)

So I, as I said, I hyper focused on cocoa, but I, I think my pivot was in the beginning because it became apparent after about a week that, the finding someone who was an expert in the cocoa industry was going to be very challenging. And so I started doing a lot of research on my own and, I use guidebooks, like who are their tour guides in San Pedro. And this is very interesting because I think this was also another theme of our stay there, is you can just, one, be walking down the street and stumble upon something incredible happening that just like, you know, move you to tears. There were events like that that happened all the time, just incredible kindness of people.

Anyway, so I called a hotel in San Pedro that had a concierge and said, you know, do you know of anyone that does cacao tours? And they gave me the name of the gentleman. And so then I talked to one of the professors in one of our classes, Dr. Bisou, who everyone recalls. And he knew the person, the name of the tour guide whose name I had written down.

And the second I showed him the name, he's like, oh yeah, I even have his phone number. he like just dolls them up and he calls him right then, right there when I brought it up to him. And they have a conversation and he's like, okay, he's going to get back me in two days. And then that weekend, we visited a cacao plantation. Just put the whole trip together like that in days time, you know? so I think, you know,

My pivot was like, I was feeling as if all was lost in this cacao unit I had dreamed of was going to fall apart. And then suddenly it was, I had more information that I could possibly use, you know? And so, and there are many instances like that, I think over the month long stay.

Norah Jones (21:45)

One of the things that's really over and over you are demonstrating to me, my friends, is that language is not this kind of thing that you just go from point A to point B and you say point A to point B and you keep going like this, but it's those serendipitous moments, those cultural moments, those ⁓ stories of integrity and of interaction. And you have resources that point of your being there was to create these resources and to have your experiences, yes. But when you come back, as you have, got those resources, how are you helping to incorporate these small experiences that are not part of the resource per se, but are part of the experience of living in a language in the world?

What are you doing for that? And not only for yourself potentially, if you can say this, but how might you be capturing this not only for your students, but for others that might need to hear what you have experienced and what it means.

Jeff Loughary (22:54)

So I'll jump in here. I think for me, it's just the memories that come back naturally when I'm talking to someone, whether it's my colleagues or my students or my family or just even strangers in a restaurant when we're just sitting there waiting for a table.  I think just being able to explain where I've been, what I've done brings back new memories through the questions that people ask me. And so I think those small moments they just kind of pop up at different times and they always bring to mind a different memory, a different experience that I had while I was in Cote d'Ivoire. And I think that for me has been the most valuable part of actually traveling and that was what made it worth it. It was definitely a long journey to get from here to there, even though I show my students on the globe and we hold the globe in my classroom frequently, but it's not a long distance, but it does take a lot of effort to get there. It's not a smooth journey.

So I think it was worth going there in person to meet real people, have those experiences, and then come back and then wait for the questions. The questions that people have, because people have very odd questions sometimes. Like, why would you go to Africa? Isn't it dangerous? Do they, you know, what is it like, you know, is everybody poor? And they would ask me questions, and I can break down those stereotypes through the spontaneous conversations that happen in the hallway, that happen on the sidewalk, that happen in a restaurant or around town.

And I really appreciate those experiences and the opportunity to share.

Jessica Ayer (24:23)

For me, having knowledge of something that you've read in a book, it just is different when you are able to speak to a person and hear them articulate that knowledge through their own experience.And it's so powerful. For me, the trip shifted my entire view of the world and how the economy functions.

In one of my interviews, this was with two of the employees of the hotel that we stayed at, which was on the university campus. And I asked the two employees, you eat chocolate? And they both said no, maybe once a year, maybe because it's so expensive. And then I said, well, what role do you think that that plays in society? In your society, because obviously you produce the cacao, but what role does that play if you're not eating it? And they both just said, that's something for rich people. That's just something for, and they said, white people. That's not, we don't eat that. And then I said, if you, if it were cheaper, ⁓ would you eat it? And one of them said yes, but the other one said, and I, again, this is another one of those incredible moments, and I can't wait to show my students this interview. She said, if it were produced in Africa, if the chocolate were made here and the profits from that factory were going back to Africans, she's like, I don't even like chocolate, but I would eat I would eat so much chocolate if it were produced here. Because, and you can see that she would be so proud of that product if it were produced here. And, and you know, I can read about that, you know, the Ivarians don't eat much chocolate. I can look at infographics. can, but to hear those words from her mouth does something really deep inside of a person for me.

And I hope that that's what it does for other people when they see that interview.

Norah Jones (26:47)

It certainly did it for me right here. The Cote d'Ivoire dream, like an American dream, is a dream of people for their country. Thank you very much for sharing that wonderful

Megan Diercks (27:00)

I'd like to circle back to something that Jessica said and also answer the question, think, hopefully at the same time. But when Jessica said that we want, or she wants, for all of her students to see themselves in a francophone culture, that's one of the goals of the AATF. And there's been a huge movement to decolonize your curriculum and, like Jessica said, treat that whole heritage very sensitively and, but truthfully as well. 

And so it's one thing for the AATF to say decolonize your curriculum and we're all about la francophonie. But to me, this trip was really putting my money where my mouth is. I can say that all day as one of the leaders of the AATF. But this actually is follow up. We put people in country to create authentic materials because this is important to our organization and it's important to all French teachers and your students, member or not, I don't care. 

Well, I'd like for you to be a member. I do care. But if you're not a member, you can still, you still deserve to have this accurate view of an incredible culture that you can share with your students. So it was, was an amazing experience. I'd always wanted to go to Africa Cote d'Ivoire was not ever the my first choice of country. I never thought that that would be my first real African country layover  in Morocco, but I didn't think that it would be, but I wouldn't have traded this experience or anybody on our team for anything.

Norah Jones (28:24)

What a beautiful, passionate statement. And I'm actually going to ask you, Megan, here you have this wonderful project that has taken place in the Cote d'Ivoire. And I'm also looking at Steve, I guess, at the same time here is, what vision do you have? You clearly stated it for what the purpose and the impact of the resources are right now. Any vision to bring in more of the cultures and thus demonstrating the variety within Africa?

Steve (28:56)

Well, Megan and I wrote another proposal, still for Ivory Coast, but to develop a French for specific purpose programs across the AATF.  The AATF is also built in to a grant that we're doing right now where I want to. And I think Megan's going to like this to be able... to invite Megan to whatever Francophone African country she wants to visit. as a part of setting up possible exchanges and future if it can't be full bright haze because the program's been cut by the current administration, but to find other ways of doing what we did with other kinds of monies that Megan would be able as the head of the AATF to go to Tunisia, to go to Morocco, Senegal, and Cameroon, other countries to be able to scout around to see where we can have exchanges and also where we can do a next non-Fulbright-Hays since the program doesn't exist anymore.

Norah Jones (30:03)

Thank you, Steve. That's a very helpful clarification of what some of the intentionalities are.

Megan Diercks (30:07)

It was a really wonderful program and we would definitely love to do it again. It's a lot of work and I think the next time around I'll know better what I'm getting into and what needs to happen. You don't know what you don't know until you realize that you don't know it. So it will be different and better the next time around. But this is a priority for us and we are looking at ways to continue to incorporate La Francophonie into our resources and into a lot of what the AATF does.

Steve (30:39)

The program is a great weight loss tool. I Megan and I heard on August 7th of last year, and we were still going to like December 1st, I've lost 51 pounds total because of all the worrying and all the something waking up, you up in the middle of the night, have you thought about this in case this were to happen? So we can recommend Fulbright-Hays or something similar as a weight loss program for the co-directors. Not that Megan needs to, know, Megan doesn't need to lose weight, but I did.

Norah Jones (31:08)

Another good reason to reconsider the defunding of the Fulbright-Hays experience. No question about that. So I'm going to turn over to Jessica and Jeff here for the final part. You are looking at your own experiences of what you have had and what kind of impact it's having right now in your lives. Along with what it is that you want to be able to do personally, if you turn to my audience and say, here's what I would ask you listeners to think about, do, prepare for, however you want to put it. I would love for you to give some final words here today about what difference this is making for you and what it should be doing in the world. Who'd like to start? Jeff?

Jeff Loughary (31:59)

Okay, yeah, I would say what I would say to your to your listeners is to take every opportunity to travel. When the opportunity came up for me to join this program I was very excited because it's very unlikely that I would be able to do this on my own I certainly would not have had the same experience where we were living on campus and we had English partners and You know an opportunity to make friends I think if you organize a trip like this on your own the experience is very different, but that said, I think that every opportunity to travel is important. It pulls us out of our home. It pulls us out of what is comfortable to us. And it opens our eyes to different perspectives, different languages. mean, Jessica and I and everyone, think on this trip, we learned things that we were not expecting. Many of us didn't know what to expect when we were at the airport, when we were meeting each other for the first time. We didn't know really where we were going, how we were really going to get there.

We knew that things had been planned out, but there were a lot of surprises along the way. And I think for your listeners, it's important to remember that any opportunity you get to travel and experience something new is very valuable, even though you might not have it fully planned out.

Norah Jones (33:10)

Thank you, Jeff, very insightful and I sure hope people will take advantage of your good advice. Jessica?

Jessica Ayer (33:16)

I agree 100 % with what Jeff just stated. I think ⁓ in my little town, I'll say in Linenburg, one of the things I tell my students is how important it is to leave, like go someplace else, live somewhere else, even within the United States, to know how other people live and how other people see the world. Going to another country and speaking the language, I mean, that's the key right there is you have to speak the language and it's not to dissuade people, but to encourage them to attempt to learn and just watch when you try to speak it how a person reacts differently.  I'll give you the example of us having learned Bambara.

We were in the market after having learned some great phrases in terms of negotiation. I said one of the phrases when I was negotiating and the gentleman just lit up. His whole demeanor changed and I think I had a connection with him much more so than I did before I had said that word in Bambara because I'm attempting to know him. I can't know him perfectly, but I can.

I'm showing a vulnerability because I don't speak it well and I'm trying. And I think shelling that vulnerability to someone from another culture, especially when you're in their culture, is going to open up all sorts of opportunities, all sorts of experiences that you wouldn't have had otherwise. It is scary to do that because you're going to mess up, but it's through those experiences that you grow.

And I think for me personally, and hopefully for many, many other people, but when you travel and you do something like what we did, you come back changed. You experience something that shifts how you see the world. And that becomes sort of a part of who you are and hopefully an improved version sort of of yourself.

And that's the, I think that's what I could hope for, for everyone is that through traveling, through learning languages and other cultures that they learn more about themselves and maybe even it shifts a little bit of who they are when they see how others see the world.

Norah Jones (35:53)

Thank you, Jessica, beautifully said. My friends, I thank you so much. This conversation has flown by and there's just so much that you are sharing and will share. Look forward to keeping up with you, keeping up with these resources and look forward to what you will continue to share in the world. Thanks for being my guest today and thanks for encouraging the listeners to be out there and be vulnerable and be changed. Appreciate that very much.

Megan Diercks (36:22)

Thank you for having us.

Jessica Ayer (36:23)

Thank you. It was such a pleasure.

Steve (36:23)

Thank you, Norah.

Jessica Ayer (36:25)

Thank you so much.

Norah (36:29.176)

Thanks for listening to these stories today. I look forward to hearing yours. Connect up with me and with my community on my website fluency.consulting to hear more language and culture stories and to share your own. Let's open hearts and lives through language together. Until next time.