That's Faux Deep

Why Does Andrew Tate Do That?

• sisters mathany and ma'any ahmed • Season 1 • Episode 3

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Mathany reads Andrew Tate's the Tate Bible and tells Ma'any all about how utterly unremarkable this man is.

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Hello and welcome to our podcast, That's Faux Deep. I'm your host Ma'any, And I'm her sister Mathany, and welcome to episode three. Today we are reading Andrew Tate, the Tate Bible. We're gonna start with something really exciting today. I thought we would do like a little interactive roleplay so I've sent you a little Transcript This is a conversation between Andrew Tate and his brother Tristan, both of whom have recently gotten into some legal trouble. So this conversation both of them, both of them. Yes, he has a brother. Yeah, right. I was shocked to find out he plays a major role in everything too. So you are going to read Andrews part and I'm going to read Tristan so go ahead and read for us today try and use an entertaining point Yeah, try your best if your chickens Ride or Die really loves you. What's the problem with getting a bunch of money from home? What's the issue? Oh, they're gonna see your TDS your Taser basically out on Instagram for free anyway, all you guys at home consider if you were down and out with your girl make money to help you because honestly, if your girl won't wave her titties at a computer, if that girl won't do it for you to help change both of your lives get rid of her straightaway because she ain't ever going to help you do shit. Okay, I'm going to stop the boys and try. That is okay. Okay, it's about to get really dark. It's true. Like I mean, a lot of girls have competence issues. They don't want to do it because they're self conscious and stuff. But you're right man. If you're saying to your chick, look, we're together forever. I'm going to change our lives. We're going to become millionaires. All you got to do is sit here and abroad. What the fuck is a problem? I mean, since we've been doing this job five years now how many girls have worked with us? 7500 so many girls, how many of them worked for us and didn't sleep with one of us? One who's that? The girl from Lithuania. She sucked your dick. Yeah, she escaped, I guess but she worked for us for a very short time. It was like a week. But the other stuff with one of us at some point we've been through a shitload of chicks. The most loyal survive. That's how it is. And I've got my most loyal girls even still, I've had them years. One of them is retired from work for me. She's pursuing other things and I've kept her you know why? Because when the chips were down when I needed money when I needed to build my empire, she was there fucking rubbing her tits for losers on camera and collecting the fucking money. If you want to learn how to run a webcam studio, buy the course you get direct access to me and we'll teach you exactly how to do it. And then maybe one day you'll be in a penthouse with 10 naked chicks in a Lamborghini outside and you'll think those tape rollers are pretty fucking smart because we are. That's deplorable. deplorable is that great word golf of the universe. Yeah, that is literally the scum of the universe wiped its own app and threw it on a page. We'll get into why the tape brothers are in the news right now like but this is essentially a confession of all of their crimes and this conversation has happened multiple times across multiple platforms on their podcasts in the book on the YouTube channel on their tick tock videos like they're everywhere talking about this like their whole thing is that we will teach you how to also human traffic women so that you can make money off of them. And here they are like gloating about it you know like excited about it like oh yeah, we've had 75 100 girls working for us and every single one of them had was sexually involved as us and like, that's something to be proud of. Oh my god. Yeah, they're sick. Motherfuckers teach you will teach you all you have to do ladies and gentleman is by the tape brothers course. And you can learn how to do this too. That makes sense why he was read to I don't know why I thought he was his biology shit on credit and the posting a podcast and then acting like he was rich. I thought he got no bitches like nobody's gonna fucking believe him like because he's not hot. He has a weirdest Simpson face. Initially, round eyes, this viral tweet that I wrote and it's like there's literally nothing remarkable about Andrew Tate except for the fact that he looks exactly like if you tried to draw pit bull. And you know, that's interesting. Because I have a lot of really interesting pictures to show you this episode a picture? Yes. And the fans will also get pictures make sure you're following us on Instagram so you can follow them. It's at that so deep before we dive into the rest of the episode, there's some things I need to mention major, major, major major trigger warnings for the whole episode. There is a lot of discussion, of course, because we're talking about Andrew Tate about sexual exploitation, abuse, extreme misogyny and sexual violence. We're gonna like unpack all of that. I also want to say that sex work is work. There's no question about that. We believe that but work implies consensual nature of work, what the tape brothers are doing. And they talk about this all the time. They talk about coercing women into exploiting themselves for the tape brothers benefit not for their own empowerment or their own financial gain or anything they're they're extracting the value from women who would not have done it if they did not ever meet these men. Yeah, I think that's really important to say, though, yeah, because sex work is just a career all work under capitalism is exploitative, but then there's like, we all still make choices and those choices are free to an extent but like what the tape brothers are doing is like literally, like physically emotionally manipulating people into working for them that wouldn't do otherwise and taking most of the money also without question that tape brothers are guilty of everything they're accused of and probably more stuff that we don't even know about yet. Like I'm not gonna even try and like both sides this at all. There's nothing in this book that I find like redeemable like not even in like the atomic habits, like there's sometimes things that you might be able to use in your daily life. No, not this book. There is all garbage start to finish everything that Andrew Tate says his only philosophy is how can he build up his own wealth and his just his own self better that there is no other philosophy besides how can I as Andrew Tate when and anything he says is in service to that so like, it's all bullshit. And this is classified as a self help book. Yes. He calls himself a self help and lifestyle guru. So yeah, he is in the same realm as Teal Swan. Yeah, atomic habits and laziness does not exist. We just have so many extreme Yeah, but I think the people that are drawn to telling other people how to live their lives are inherently narcissistic. That thought in itself is already a problem and like just some people take it to varying degrees of how far will I push my influence over other people? And you Tate in the book says that he fucking hates books. He does not read anything, which of course you know, because before he seems barely literate, so here's the thing about reading. Here's the thing about reading. I have been in that phase in my life where I stopped reading as a whole really foster also said this that you can get as much information as you can from the internet, but there is a level that reading will always it will come out on top because they're a complex topics that you have to be listened to and thought about and reread over and over again, that reading does enable and like actually now that I'm thinking about it, it does reflect in his view of life, like his view of life is so small, there's absolutely no nuance everything is either one thing or the other key says in the book, you're either a pimp or you're a hoe like you're either the exploiter or you You are the exploited and there is no in between that men are like this. Women are like this, but also what happens on the internet is that people are very conclusive with every tick tock, every tweet. It's just so much more engaging to have a conclusive thought. It's not fun to be nuanced. It really sucks actually, more have to take more than five minutes to explain the content. Or think about a concept. I hate that too. Andrew take doesn't read so he didn't write this book. Right. So this book was written he doesn't write either. And so this book was written not by Andrew Tate. By a fan of Andrew Tate who like he went on an interstate rabbit hole during the pandemic and then wrote this book. So here's a quote from him his his name, the fan is G slip so he says I decided I would complete the book in total secrecy and then get a physical paperback version printed to give to him. This I hoped would get the seal of approval, but I began a long and arduous task of reading every tweet he'd ever posted and watching every video he'd ever made, but this time finding the best bits and transcribing them. So basically, the super fan like lice together everything that entertained as a result, even like the transcript we just read must have been like a transcript of a recording from a podcast or something. These weren't like given from interviews. With Andrew Andrew Tate, like has a clip somewhere talking about how like he was sitting in a restaurant once with a girl and the waiter like discreetly brought him the book and he's like, Oh, my god, somebody wrote a book and his girls like, oh my god, you wrote a book. He's like, no, no, baby. I don't write books. Books get written about me. Don't know if he's ever even read the Bible, and I'm sure that if he ever gets a chance to he will kill this man because of the thing hasn't read his own blog, because the things that are included in him will 100% be used. Yes, there are so incriminating, and it's so concise. If I was a prosecutor prosecuting. I'd be like, thank you so much for doing this work for me. Finally, one of the books I use as source material is why does he do that by a counselor named Lundy? Bancroft, it's an in depth look at how abusive men think and like the goal of the book is to demystify abusive behavior specifically to help victims escape domestic abuse situations. Oh, that's so beautiful. It's a really good book. It was personally helpful for me right? It's still like widely used in domestic violence prevention. That being said, the book was written by me talk about a man there should just be a disclaimer, like Yeah. You take what you can. The book was written 20 years ago. It's extremely gendered. He mentions every once in a while that yes, abusive dynamics exist in same sex relationships. But like when he talks about abusers, he talks about men and when he talks about victims, he talks about women for the most part since the 20 years since the book came out. The author has said some transphobic things regarding trans victims of abuse is also like a Tumblr post saying that he may himself be into some self help culty share to like sexually harass a woman that he needs to know where to save for us. There are safe places okay. Yeah, you know it true. Yeah. The book itself, again, very helpful, extremely illuminating on like the way abusive men think that being said, and the author maybe really do have to separate the art from the artists. There's too much art out there to be not separating it Yeah, I mean, there's there's a point where you won't be able to like engage with anything. If you're like that serious about it, and like I do think we should like hold the creators in our lives to like high standard Lundy Bancroft says that in his own book, like that's the only way to like stop abuse and like stop cycles. of abuse is to like have strong community values, but we're just mentioning that. I still think that the book is helpful for specifically for this conversation too. So Marnie, what do you know about Andrew Tate and just and tape? I know nothing about Tristan Tate. Andrew Tate. I see these like clips of him. In a room full of women who aren't speaking who are just sitting in the back. And then I see him making these horrible claims with one other woman in the room who's like trying to disprove him but is getting overwhelmed by the conversation. He will just talk over them. They can't even make an argument because of the fact that he's just going to talk over that, you know, like he doesn't even engage in discussion like he is discussing over the other person. That's a discussion. I think that's most people's experience with Andrew Tay is that he has been going viral viral viral constantly for like the last not even full year honestly, like he blew up in July of 2022. Most of our experiences with him are like scrolling through the feed for whatever reason the algorithm has brought him to our page. You're just here like, What the fuck did he just say? Why did he say that? And now you're mad and there's like, millions of views on it. And all the comments are men being like, Oh, well, he's kind of wrong for that. But mostly he's right. You know, like they love to be a step down from agitate, but they don't love to be entertained. Yeah, like Andrew t as like Donald Trump quality where it's like you are saying the same thing that everybody feels but like you're saying it like a little bit too aggressively and we don't do that anymore. Andrew and Tristan take our brothers who both of them were world champions at kickboxing, which is different than regular boxing and apparently less prestigious. I think. And if you know anything about sports, let me know if that's true. We were born in Chicago live there for a little bit and then when his parents divorced, they moved to London which is a town of about 200,000 people like 30 miles outside of London, mostly like from the time he was like 10 years old grew up in the UK and so that's why if you ever listen to them speak they have like really weird accent weird accent like It's like American and British at the same time. They both started getting famous for being on different reality TV shows. Andrew was on Big Brother but then got kicked off after a video of him hitting a woman with a belt and telling her to stop talking to other guys came out with a bail was about Yeah, and the video if you guys watch it, it's like available online. So they both say that this was confessional. And they like tried to disprove these claims by posting this picture Mandy Can you tell us what's in this Okay, in this picture, I see a thin white woman in her underwear then she has a tape tattoo that's it says tape and then what does it say underneath it? Hey, dynasty. Oh, I didn't even see that. It says Tade dynasty with another tape within the tape. Oh my god and then it says on the belt. But I heart when Andrew spanks me hashtag BB UK hashtag BB Andrew. Tristan was also on a British reality TV show for a while and he was also an asshole to his classmates. Like when one of them gets kicked off. He said the reason you've done nothing in the real world is the same reason you're leaving now. You're really lazy. you're incompetent. You can't handle a free holiday. You're never gonna get anywhere in life. Whoa, these guys are used to being just complete assholes. on national television. Like really a very large audience. They're like very comfortable living in this so their father is a really fascinating character. Their father father, his name is also answered. So Andrew tapes full name is Emery Andrew Tate, the third and Andrew Jake's father is Emery Andrew take Jr. And so their major inspiration in life comes from their dad who they talked about falling white or black. He is black. Their mom is white. They idolize their father idolize him. So Andrew talks a lot about his father is a chess master chess master and he exaggerates about everything in the book. You know, like when he said chess master I'm like okay, that can't possibly be real. Lo and behold, his dad was literally one of the best black chess players of all time. Really? Yeah, he has moves named after him. He's like, the chess community is obsessed with him because he has like a reputation for playing like really fast and loose like he plays the game like nobody's ever played it before. He's also really famous for after he's won a game to cold court tell everybody about this is exactly how I won this game. This is my strategy. This is how you do it. And that's like really not common interest. People usually especially really good players, like keep it to themselves how they play the game, because it's like, why would you give away your secrets, but he's like, no, no, I want everybody to know how great I am one of the books I read this week is called Triple X glam the life and games of Emory tape chess warrior. This is a book written about Emory, Tate's life and chess career because he has played so many like prolific games that people are just like, Oh my God, he's like, redefining what it means to play chess. Oh, yeah. He's a big fucking deal. I'm telling you about his dad because I think it's really important in understanding Andrew Tate because there's like some things in his dad's past that entertained seems to be like finishing the story that his dad couldn't finish, you know, in a lot of ways. But it's so interesting. Like I'm on the edge of my seat. It's very Queen's gambit. Like it's a quote from chess.com Emory Tate was an American International master and five times Armed Forces chess championship winner. He won the Indiana State Championship six times and was active in the Chicago chess scene. Emory Tate collapsed in the middle of a game at a chess tournament in 2015. Dying tragically at the age of 56. He died of a heart attack during a game that's like really traumatizing for everybody. He said 2015 2015 which is just a year before like Andrew Tate's really starts popping off line with the misogyny so if you think about 2016 Like the rise of fascism Brexit is happening Donald Trump is running for president Yeah, like that's one thing start to feel really intense like as far as like online like extremism, and then Andrew Tate's father dies and his dad was like such an important figure in his life. I think you can see the need that like he was trying to like meet especially because the type of like content that he makes is all about like how to be a man you know, like how to be a good man how to be a strong man how to be the most powerful man, you know, and so not that we should sympathize with him, but it is like, I just find it important context. Yeah, just like how Kanye West's mom died right before they're to blame Taylor Swift on the stage. Oh, yeah, exactly. His mom died and then he got on stage with Taylor Swift. Yeah, a certain type of man's like, default emotion is anger and rage. And so like when dealing with the grief of his father, like rather than deal with the grief, like his responses, and their powerlessness is Yeah, yeah, exactly what's to like rage out, you know, on the internet, and now we are all afflicted. Eight years later, that also means he didn't have time to grieve at a public stage and rotate and the book talks about about this death he says, so all this material stuff like the cars, the mansions, all the girls, it means nothing. I'd much rather see my father again. 1,000% not even fucking close. It's not even close. I give up absolutely everything to be with. Him. But you know, it's funny. I'll tell you a story about his funeral. My dad died when I was in Romania and I had just moved my business there from London and I was in this apartment with six girls and we were supposed to be working and I just bought all this new equipment. So we were all ready to get started. This is before I got big, big so I only had a little bit of money but I spent all of it setting up the business and then my dad died. Then I was supposed to go to his funeral. I was supposed to have to get up and leave Romania fly all the way to Alabama and stay in America for a few weeks. I knew by the time I came back, all the girls were going to quit or leave and all of that kind of thing. So I had to make this big decision. And I remember when I first started making my money, my dad was still alive. The first thing I did with my money, the very first thing I did was retire my mom. She told me how much she got paid at her job and I tripled it. She didn't have to work anymore. Anywhere there I am having to make a choice whether I stay in Romania and focus on the business or go to my dad's funeral. And I remember my dad's lessons, my dad would have been furious if I had fucked up the financial stability of the family and of my mother and my brother, just to go to his funeral. My dad knew I loved him. I spoke to him every single day. And from what he taught me he's a chess player, right? He's a logical man, he would have said get your business running then come to the grave do it that way. So of course if I could give all this up now to get my dad back then of course I would but I can't. So what's the best thing to do? Live without my father poor or live without my father rich. I made the choice to miss his funeral to take care of my mother to build my empire. And it's paid off fantastically. Oh my God, my heart. Yeah, it is that and his dad, like as I'm reading the book sounds like a really interesting, rich, colorful man. Like the way that the chess people talk about him. Jazz people are weird, but they love him. They love him. He is like so they talked about his generosity of spirit. He's so kind He's so funny. Like he spent like his all of his life playing chess and teaching other people how to chess and it is sad, I guess. I don't want to sympathize with Andrew Taylor. But it just Yeah, no, but I get it. One of the things that I've been thinking about like this is why it's not valuable to try and put people into a box as like whether they're good or bad or not. Because in every even entertain might be one of the worst people on the planet. There is still things about him that are human are so human and so recognizable and so understandable and so like, it's very easy to be empathetic with like a man struggling with the loss of his father who he loved and you know, and not getting to leave his job. Yeah, because of what the values that his dad taught. Exactly. So I think it's fine I guess, to sympathize with him in this moment. And I think really, it is sad. It is a sad thing. Okay, so current events. The reason that many of us have heard of Andrew Tay is because of tick tock where he started blowing up last July and since then has amassed 12 billion billion with a B billion views on his videos. Yeah, he doesn't even have his own account on Tiktok that's what I thought. And because he got banned two years ago, I think, but he has like these really devoted fans who like he tells them all the time, find my most inflammatory clips and flood the internet with them, like make as many accounts as you can and just be like, pushing out take content, you know, and he knows that like, if you get people mad on the internet, I'll keep sharing it. They'll keep sharing it. We'll keep talking. I'll get more views more traction. Exactly. He's the ultimate troll really is he really is like proudly so he calls himself the king of toxic masculinity. Yeah, he leans really hard into controversy. So he's a self help guru, as we said on the website it says that he teaches the quote deserving the secrets to modern wealth deserving Yeah, what does deserving mean? You know, so he makes YouTube videos he sells courses on his website, because you know, of course, if you're if you're a self help guru, you have to sell course the course you got to start your app. You got to so why he's relevant right now is that he was recently arrested for human trafficking and rape. There's a really good box article on this by Rebecca Jennings, who has done some really good reporting on him but will tag all of our sources in the description box also. But basically what had happened was he was like goading international environmental teenage activist Greta Thornburg. Yes, and and he's just talking mad shit, like, Oh, I'm gonna send you a picture of all of my amazing carbon emitting cars and she's like, Yes, please do enlighten me email me at small dick energy at get a life.com it's now the fourth most liked tweet of all time. So he tweets back a picture of himself near a pizza box which helps the Romanian police find out that he was in Romania because they had been building an investigation against him because of these human trafficking things so entertain his brother Tristan and two other women were arrested for sexually exploiting six victims that the Romanian authorities had identified and at least one of whom says she was raped. The authorities say that the tape brothers ran an international criminal group for the purpose of human trafficking. He's denying everything because that's literally what abusers do. Like he says he doesn't he didn't rape or he didn't even traffic, blanket denial for everything. He's also a Muslim now, and that's helping him you know what our dad said. He said that these are that anyone who's converted to Islam in the last like 10 years has something seriously confusing about them because Islam has had the worst PR team of all time. It's very true. If you were a non Muslim passively consuming the media the only impression that you get of Muslims is that we are misogynist that we are violent that we are suicide bombers. Yeah. So like, if those things are what is attracting you then there's something to be questioned about. Islam is not like that. It's not just every religion. It is what you make it but you can definitely make it. You certainly can. So he's accused of exerting psychological and verbal pressure to force a woman to have sex with him into other women and then he uses physical violence and psychological and verbal pressure to force a woman into intercourse again. 11 days later, is this the Romanian police documents? Those are amazing laws. Yeah, right. The very comprehensive psychological and verbal abuse of it to me and that is actually really revolutionary, but he has already been sued for this in the UK five or six years ago. So he was arrested before on suspicion of sexual assault and physical abuse, but those charges were dropped. Which is interesting, because he cites that as the reason that he moved to Romania, we're gonna have to play a clip that I'm sure a lot of people have heard but if you haven't heard, this is probably 14% of the reason I moved to Romania because in Eastern Europe, none of this garbage flies. If you're another police say he raped me back in 1988 because we should have done something about it then. We already see right in the SEC, okay, if you've got physical evidence, or CCTV proof were to happen. Okay, let's go interview him right now. And if it wasn't really relevant, so we went to the call and got dropped, she agreed to go back to my house to start having sex and then we carried on having sex and then we had sex and she didn't say anything wrong. And then she texted me afterwards. I didn't text back and now she's saying I raped her completely split. Okay, she's an idiot by but in a No, not in the West in the West. You can tell on that exact story. You're still fucked. You're fucked in the West. People say why didn't Romania and I explain my five reasons. One of them is to be to era think, Oh, well, you're a rapist. That's a normal fucking rapist. But I like the idea of being able to just say to do what I want I like being free. And if you're a man living in England or Germany or America or any of the Western world right now you've decided to live in a country where any woman any x any fucking bitch who works at Gregg's, who bought pasty from at some point in the future can destroy your life. This me to era bullshit has not protected women. It's just destroyed the safety of men. Why does he's just giving men so much ammo and it's not true. The charges were dropped the world that he's living in that he's saying that Romania is that was true of him in England, they did not prosecute him. He was fine. So like, it's like, what are you even talking about to talk? He didn't need to leave England as what you're saying. Yeah, no, he chose to leave England but he didn't need he didn't need it because like I said he doesn't have any philosophy except that he wants to live a life free of consequences. That is the only thing that matters to him like Andrew take whatever you can not be that good for him though. Of course not. Of course not. No, he just takes that's all he does. Like he doesn't. I think it would be like fulfilling like just the bare minimum physical need of like I need to release and that's it. You know, I don't even think that because isn't there a statistic that says that most rapes don't end an ejaculation or orgasm for men? It's something like only 30% of rapes and then Jack Ulation I think the thing about him because this was an ex girlfriend right? And like most of the people that he's victimized are people that he was romantically involved with. So I can't imagine that, like, what was a really violating traumatizing experience for his partners was like, at least physically satisfying for him, just like with the belt hitting thing that he says that it was consensual. And so like, I think that his perception of consensual it's like really he just takes he denies that he says that it was consensual but then the victim sent some voice messages that he sent her those things like Am I a bad person? Because the more you didn't like it the more I enjoyed it. I fucking loved how much you hated it. It turned me on why am I like that? You didn't like that. I was thinking that I could do whatever I like to you. That's what it is. Are you seriously so offended that I strangled you a little bit? You didn't fucking pass out jesus fucking christ chill the fuck out. I thought you were cool. What's wrong with those charges are why he lives in Romania and Romania is where him and his brother run the business. So I'm going to tell you a little bit about the business. So in the book he talks about after he won his fourth kickboxing championship, you don't make a ton of money in kickboxing. He's like what am I going to do next? He says the only thing I had due to fighting all around the world were these six girlfriends so they come up with the idea he's looking around at his six beautiful girlfriends he does he did in the same room or what I think at this time, they're all around Europe. So he has these six girlfriends. He's thinking them there's they're all gorgeous and so he's like, You know what I should do? I should put these bitches in front of a camera convinced this four of them moved to Romania with me. We're gonna start this business. He tells all of them that like you're all gonna live here with me. It's very Hugh Hefner. You know, like you're all gonna live here with me you're gonna get on camera. This is going to be great. We're all gonna make a ton of money and these girls say yes, initially, the girls would be on camera while Tate was like messaging the clients you know, and he said that he was doing this because none of the girls knew how to talk to him and eventually they build it up so they go from having four girlfriends to having 75 working under them. And they have fun the girls on top too. There's like a hierarchy. What do you mean? Like is it like an MLM for girls? It's like, it's not unlike a porn company. And he's like hiring beautiful women to webcam and he's like helping them with the management like we'll help you like get clients will help you like deal with the messaging of them. Like he hires. He talks about hiring ugly girls to run the like messaging aspect. Why and he has just pretty girls on camera, like shaking their titties in front of the camera. And stuff. The problem with this with having 75 Women's is that they cannot control 75 women, that's too many women. He says he says that it's impossible because women of course are not human. It's impossible to motivate them with just money and it's physically impossible to have sex with all of them. So he believes that women are only loyal to the dig that their fucking more than anything else, and if you're not fucking them, then they're gonna start bucking somebody else who will of course be not happy that they're being exploited by fucking Andrew Tate. So his problem was like, Well, I can't have 25 pitches because I literally don't have time that day. It would be fucking 75 pitches so they downsized the company back to like a lower level. So it's now just him and his brother and eight total living girlfriends at this time. They say they were making between 406 $100,000 A month depending on I don't believe that. The number changes a lot. A lot there. They say they're making between 406 $100,000 a month and like I it's possible. I don't know. This is what he says. So according to Andrew, all of the women were free to leave whenever they wanted, but they in the book talks about different psychological tactics that you can use to control women. So at this time, the brothers are taking 80% of the earnings and giving the girls 20% And then before the downsides when they had like independent workers, it was the reverse flip. So if you were an independent worker for Andrew Tate you were getting 80% and you would just pay him 20% Like as your manager something Tristan told the mirror that everything was an absolute total scam. It's like an MLM of emotional manipulation like they're talking about like men that are giving their like literal life savings to these women because they think that they're gonna come and visit them and they're paying $4 a minute to keep her company. However, the girls made the real money when the men would fall in love with them and like they would believe that fake stories so that it's like, oh, my grandmother is sick, I need money and men are setting dollars you know, so it's just like they're using the faces of these women to extract money for like in shady ways, like the tinder swindler. Literally exactly like the tinder swindler. Like it's the same exact energies. I need my money. My enemies are after me. Yeah. And if you build an emotional connection with somebody, you know, like, of course, you're gonna try and help somebody that you care like they're truly just scammers. And the thing is the way they talk about as it's like, this is completely revolutionary. Nobody's ever thought of doing this. I've been thinking about this. And it's like when people cut in line, it's like no, the rest of us were aware that cutting in line was an option. But we chose not to do that because like we live in a society and we don't want to treat people like that. You know, like I don't want to cut people in line because I don't want to be cut in line. I don't want to scam people out of their you know inheritances or their like their last savings because I don't want that to happen to me either. But follow the rules like that and then they think that they've figured something out like that's like brand new. It's not like you're just robbing people. It's there's nothing new to it. Yeah. It takes a lot to have no empathy. Yeah, have no soul. Yeah, like no respect for other people. Like how could your money be so much more important that you're willing to go to this level? Yeah, you know, I feel like at $1.5 thousand a month is exactly what you need to live in your life you know, not for entertain because he has nothing else he has money you know, like he didn't go to his dad's funeral because this is the business that he was not going to his dad's funeral for is because he's starting up the cam business where he's exploiting women. Okay, so this this section, you're gonna love this. It's from the book. It's called laws of the pimp game. He says beautiful women work for me and make me millions of dollars they obey me because they love me. They clean my house and make me coffee and get naked on demand. That's how I make over 300k a month. So again, like the the number changes 300k And the same book like we've got like four different numbers, you know, so here are some of my favorite laws of the pimp game. I love this. Yes, number one. female beauty is the most valuable thing in the world. I agree. Honestly, He's not wrong. I'm gonna read you a quote. He's really not wrong. He said I was poor with many, many girlfriends using them for food and shelter. I decided I needed money. And I found a way to monetize female beauty. He says that if you think about it, we don't bat an eyelash when we see like nine a 19 year old beautiful supermodel with like a 45 year old bazillionaire because we do though society at large really doesn't like that. Like Leonardo DiCaprio has been dating like teenagers since Yeah, one eyelash. People do bad eyelashes but like other people are like applaud most people and for most of human history, like we have not thought about it at all, you know, and it's because we see that the teenagers female beauty is as important as whatever wealth intelligence anything else that a man has to offer which I'm like, you know, he's not wrong. He's really not wrong. Rule number two, because female beauty has value. Men should pay for it. Every man should pay except for you. The human trafficker and the situation Oh, he said my woman never fucked man. They only spoke to them online. You have to change a woman's mind to understand a man doesn't exist in her world unless she's paying. Where does she get emotional support and connection from from the one man she can trust you. You don't pay because of the like suppose that emotional support you're paying which of course it's entertained. You're not getting any emotional support from this man. So that's why men are like, you can't have friends. You can't talk to your mom. Don't talk to your family like when they're abusive. Because that would create this dynamic where you have more power than them. Like oh, also then, then that makes it so she needs you you know? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Like, I mean, and this is how abuse works. Like the point is to like degrade a person so much that like they cannot exist without you because they're like a shell of a person. And like what we'll talk about when we get to the Why does he do that section is like there's different levels to it. But the structure is always the same. Like sometimes you'll degrade a person to the point that you'll like pimp them out online. Sometimes you'll pimp them out for real like put them on the streets or whatever. Sometimes you'll just like degrade them to the point that they'll cook you dinner and make and clean your dishes every single night. You know, like there is but it's the same behavior and the same action, the same mentality behind it. Rule number three, your woman must love you, but don't ever show them love back because that would quote show weakness of the other and inspire mutiny. So has eight girlfriends living in the house with him and his whole goal is to like pit them against each other so they never feel like fully stable in their place in his life. That's exactly what happened. We listen to this really great podcast called till I remember a book club and they've done a bunch of like the Playboy Bunnies memoirs, and they all talk about how much they hated the other girls. Your boss pits you against your co workers so that you won't link up and be like, hey, you know what, we actually are creating the value for you. So like you should be treating all of us better. We have more power than you do. But if you can keep everybody separate than like, they won't be like that. And then finally he says to avoid gorillas and Godzilla is what he's talking about. There is like gorilla pimps. So there's different types of pimping, right, like in the sex work and exploitation literature. One of them is called like a gorilla pimp or a Godzilla pimp. And this is like when you think of a pimp, you're probably thinking of this guy. It's like the guy who's like smacking his hose around, you know, like violently getting them to do what he wants them to do. Andrew Tay says pimping is positively inspirational, motivating person that's what it is to be a pimp like you want to positively. Like I get it. He has figured out a way to motivate the girls without having to hit them. But that's like the only difference between him and a standard pimp is that he's not like physically hurting anybody except what he needs to. But he is like, they call him a Loverboy pimp a Romeo pimp is but it's like, how they exploit you is by getting you to fall in love with them, and then they use your emotional attachment for them. That's the kind of pimping I'm most familiar with. And honestly, that's true of like most abusive situations like It's like that thing about a frog. If you throw it in boiling water, it'll jump out but if you like, slowly raise the temperature of the water. It won't like leave until it's too late. You know, it's exactly like that with abuse. It's exactly like this with pimping. You know, like, it's so addictive. Yeah, it is and like once you know, love is powerful, you know, like, it's like a beautiful like instinct. To have that you want to care for the person that you love. Like if the man you love is like, we need help right now. I need to make money or my dad just died. And he's telling you what, like, your titties are already all over your Instagram. Like, what's different about this? I really just need some money. You could probably just sell it here and there. And it won't be like this forever, and we'll get out of the situation. And then yeah, and I bet it was just one time it was just supposed to be one time at first. Yeah. And then it just became too time. Yeah. And he just needed help with his dad's funeral and then it was like, it was like that slow progression of like, just bit by bit, you know? Exactly. Okay, so here's the thing about abusers money, I really don't think it's helpful to look at somebody like Andrew Tate and be like, That's a rapist. That's a human trafficker. Are those things true? Yes. But it's so easy to dispel that. You know what I mean? Like, if you were to be like, Oh, agitates a bad person. Then you can just point to that section of the book where he's talking really poignant ly about his dad dying and you're like, that's like not what I understand a bad person to be, are like, when you think of a human trafficker, you think of like somebody that's like, a big bad guy. Yeah, that's like evil and like, is working in some sort of organized criminal ring and they're tattooing barcodes on women and all of those things and like, and then all you have to do is be like, no, none of those things are true. And so now he's not a human trafficker anymore. And that's exactly how he denies all of these like accusations against him. Is that like, Well, no, because I'm not a human trafficker. Because look at me, I'm just Andrew Tate. And so what they talk about in Why does he do that is not focusing on the explosive moments. What matters is everything that happens in between the explosive moments. You know, yeah, it's not the Lifetime movie scene. No, it's not the snaps moments, you know, because all of us have snapped moments like, really? Okay, that's actually validating because my mom would have snap moments and I was like, was I violently abused? I don't think I was violently abused, but I definitely feel like it's like a abuse light of all right, so here's the thing about Andrew Tate. And what I wanted to talk about mostly with this book is that it's really easy to look at somebody like Andrew Tate and be like, that is a bad person. Let's throw him away. That feels really satisfying. But it's not helpful for anybody. Yeah, it's not helpful for him because he can easily discount that. Like, you can look at the section of his book where he's talking about his dad and he's like, very empathetic, and like he seems like a nice guy in that moment. And it doesn't help us when we're going about our daily lives being like, how do I protect myself from people like that, like is no person on this planet that is going to be a perfect villain like that. So it's not helpful to look for people that are villains. It makes people look for those like small signifiers of villains like dark eyes or threatening look. So then you stop looking for them in places that is actually like there are a lot of villains like the church or education or Boy Scouts or something like that. People do villainous things all the time. Like I do villainous things all the time. I've done terrible things in my life. I've done things that entertain has done in his life. Like I've lied to people. I've stolen things like I've done. Yes, I've screamed at people I've been like verbally abusive. To people. Like I've gotten into fights with partners and like all these things that like me and entertain, have a lot in common. Everybody does, you know, and like if you look at our worst moments, you can turn anybody into a villain like that. What Lundy Bancroft says And why does he do that is not to focus on the explosive moment it's to focus on what happens in between explosive moments. So I guess what I really want to say is that agitate talks a lot about the fact that like he's, he's not a gorilla pimp. He's so sweet to his hose, for lack of a better word, and forces us to get into the nitty gritty of well did he hit her Did he force that woman did he actually hit her? With a belt? Did she consent to it? That doesn't really matter that much. You know, like, what matters is how did he treat that woman up to that point? Like, oh, yeah, it's the infrastructure of abuse. That is the most insidious is what you're saying? Yeah, that's how the abuses work. Yeah, is that they destroy the infrastructure of a person. And then that's how it crumbles. It's not the end. It's not the final moment like that where the house comes collapsing down it Yeah, I think that using those explosive moments like helps abusers continue their cycle of abuse because they can point to a real boogeyman and be like, No, see, look, that guy's evil. I'm not evil. And like we see them do this all the time, like Donald Trump taking out a full page ad in the New York Times to be like, Look, the Central Park Five, you know, they're the actual rapist while he's literally running around New York grabbing women by the pussy. And he's like, because we have this actual villain over here, the shadowy figure in the corner waiting to like, steal your women and kidnap your kids and all of these things. Like you're not looking at the Donald Trump. You're not looking at the Donald Trump who is like the guy you work with. It's just like people referencing Adolf Hitler as the last person who was racist and being wielding mayhem and yeah, I don't need to worry about that anymore. anti semitism is gone since the Holocaust. Fix it. We used to fake it. Yeah, seeds are gone. Exactly. It's infrastructure. Its infrastructure. That's exactly that make the systemic nature that abusers literally cannot see themselves as villain because like there's like a certain narcissism that's involved in this Donald Trump, of course sees himself as different because the Central Park Five if you guys don't know those were like five teenage boys that were falsely accused of raping a woman in the park. They didn't do it. You know, they need villains like that to exist so they can be like, I'm not a villain, you know? So they create these villains so they create made up villains. Yeah, exactly. It's just like Batman. Yeah, it's like they make the Joker the bad guy. So everyone doesn't think about how Batman is literally destroying billions of dollars of infrastructure in the city, ruining roads, destroying banks, speeding up robbers who are literally just trying to make like a piece of bread for their kids, right. And even in Batman, they talk all the time about how Gautham is like, overrun with criminals, they're like some nonhuman entity, they're not even people anymore. And that's why it's okay to squash them like bugs when that's just not true and like it's much more honest to be like, well what caused what causes people to behave like this, you know, like, what can we do to like help them not commit crimes if that's our goal, okay. So what I would like to do is for us to focus more on the patterns of behavior because that is what characterizes abuse is not the explosive moments. Like I said, we all have explosive moments. I could scream it I have screamed, I have literally choked you out before. We have literally gotten in fistfights before exactly and that doesn't mean that we're abusive people. Even if we have done abusive they knew each other exactly have reconciled. We have done extensive, like therapy and apologies and we've built our relationship back up because we're both mutually engaged in bettering each other. Exactly and bettering our relationship. Exactly. The abusers. That's the that's the kicker. And that's the thing with Donald Trump. That's the thing with Andrew Tate. That's the thing with either your abusive ex boyfriend, you know is that they cannot see themselves as billing which means they can not accept any amounts of accountability from it, you know, or they refuse to I'm sure they're capable of it, but they refuse to accept any accountability. And that's the problem. And so I'm going to try to not characterize people one way or another, but we can look at patterns of abuse and see that this is a pattern that causes unsafe situations for people to be in and the next time that I'm in an unsafe situation, I can be like, Okay, I love this person, they've done something bad, are they likely to do it again? And then you can look at the history of behavior and make an accurate assessment about that rather than trying to decide, should I tell this person away? Because they're a bad person or not? Because you'll never win the argument. There's never going to be some person that's so bad that you can't Yeah, be thrown away. Oh, my God is just like, you don't want to talk about weaponizing competence of men. They were like my husband. Did you see that tick tock of that woman who's like my husband literally fell asleep with the baby on the couch. The baby was awake. So like the baby could have rolled off the couch. Yeah. And so she's like, now I can't trust my husband with my kids anymore. So now I just take care of them. And I don't assume that he can watch them or hold them or even care for them alone period. And it doesn't make him a bad person. as a whole doesn't make him the bad guy. But it does create a pattern of behavior that needs to be assessed for the future of the mother and her relationship with her kids and her decision on her relationship with the Father example when the kid exactly and like especially it gets really complicated like in interpersonal relationships, especially because like with that woman and her husband, she loves her husband. She has married this man, she started a family with him. She wants to stay in that situation. It just takes a lot more work to be able to prove that this person is like a conclusively bad person rather than somebody that's like unwilling to address the patterns of behavior. They're engaging. In and so seriously like a much lower I guess caliber Yeah, it's like a it's like a more neutral way to like just discuss it I think which I personally found this helpful when leaving bad relationships, you know, exactly. My ex and I used to argue about the stupidest fucking shit like we would argue about washing dishes or taking the trash out. Now, I realized after getting out of that relationship and talking to Bethenny and Sue, I'm like, Sue, can you take the trash out? She's like, sure money, no biggie. Or she says, No, I don't want to do it. It's a 32nd conversation, the conversations we used to have about taking the trash out or doing the dishes would take weeks we literally went to couples counseling over this fucking trash and these fucking dishes. Yeah, and it was like so emotionally, like deteriorating to have to discuss whether or not the dishes are clean, because of this person who was like representing a pattern of behavior that is, ultimately in denial of accountability at all. Exactly. It's not about the dishes. It's about do they meet your needs? And like, are they committed to meeting your needs? So like, Are they happy to meet your need? Exactly. And so like when I'm shouting at you, like that is like a bad moment for me and I can acknowledge that, but like, Can we move on from that? Can I accept accountability? Can I apologize and will I do better in the future to not do that again? Right, you know, and so like that can mean the dishes that can mean human trafficking. Like it's a range. What Lundy Bancroft says in the book is abuse doesn't vary that much. One person uses a little more of one ingredient and a little less than the other but overall the the flavor of mistreatment has core similarities, assault on their partner's self esteem, controlling behavior, undermining their independence, disrespect. So like, that's what we're looking for, you know, and that's what I try and look for with partners now. I mean, it hasn't been like completely successful but I'm trying I mean men money you know how crazy I've been about the Johnny Depp and Amber since you I love this argument. Oh, my God told me everything you know, fucking months it's been making me crazy because this is a perfect example of people pointing to explosive moments and ignoring the patterns of behavior. Like there are videos of Amber Heard screaming at Johnny Depp. There is like a tape conversation. I think of her admitting to having hit Johnny Depp before and that's not good. You should not do that to your partner, but that is completely different. From Johnny Depp's literal. Decades of recorded violent rages, destroying hotel rooms, terrorizing the women in his life, befriending pedophiles and other like misogynist and rapists, you know, Marilyn Manson, Marilyn Manson Roman Polanski like these piatra Marilyn Manson tattoo, best friends, you know, and so it's like that is a pattern of behavior. So how Johnny Depp behaved in by the way Marilyn Manson is a huge anti Semite as in like carries Nazi symbols in their house. Yeah. And literally like rapes keeps women caged up. Brands them like you guys need to go watch the Evan Rachel Wood documentary on HBO Max, because it's like it's terrifying what that man did and like anybody that cosines like him continuously after Yeah, going on. It's just like it's that's Johnny Depp's best friend. That's Johnny Depp's back after the fact even after all the allegations and the legal cases and all the V Yes. Exactly. So if you look at how, what happens when on, you know, September, whatever, when Amber Heard and Johnny Depp are having a conversation, and we have a video of her admitting to hitting Johnny Depp too small of the picture, you're missing the whole, the whole thing you know, and so you just end up like you can end up getting really dangerous behavior slide if you're looking at the one individual explosive moment exactly. You know what my friend, my ex best friend who was a self proclaimed like narcissist or like sociopath, but she told me how to argue with authority. And she said that whenever they say something, you focus on the smallest detail you can find that's wrong. And you argue that for the next hour, she's like, don't let that part go. So let's say that they're accusing you of going out last Tuesday, and then you're like, it wasn't Tuesday. It was Wednesday that we had this argument about it. And then you get hung up on the Tuesday or the Wednesday about it. And so the person becomes so exhausted with arguing with you. They just finished the argument. They don't even care what you say exactly, because they're just tired and that's what it does. And like, it just wears you down to the point that now you're like, what the fuck I'm so crazy. Like, is this even real? Was it Tuesday? Well, that Wednesday, what is happening to him? Yeah, does it even matter? It doesn't matter as a matter because what does matter is that this person doesn't care about how you feel. Essentially, you know that because of the weeks of or six months or years I've experienced with them, you know, and so with Andrew Tate, specifically, he says that he's not a rapist, so sorry. Like, not funny, but like he does say that, you know, we did hear him in the clip like say that he's not a rapist, you know, and he doesn't want to move to Romania because he wants to rape people. He just wants to be able to live life without consequence. And so what bandcroft says about like sexual environments like that, like specific like even the big brother moment, you know, where he's hitting this woman with a belt and he says it's consensual and she says, it's consensual. bandcroft says that the meaning of what happens during sexual play is determined by the context of the relationship. If partners are consistently kind and respectful of each other in daily life, they can probably share kinky lovemaking without making either person feel unsafe or degraded. But in an abusive relationship. These lines are too blurry. It's a stretch to call any sexual contact fully consensual when it takes place and an atmosphere of abuse. The woman is always having to gauge whether her partner will react abusively if she says no to a particular sex act. So her choices rarely feel free. Oh, and listen to this because it's almost like directly about Andrew says, When the woman tells him later that she felt assaulted or raped he may respond disparagingly we always play games like that come off it when she tries to explain why the sex felt so bad. He isn't willing to listen, mostly because he knows it wasn't consensual this time. And he got a charge out of that. Just like basically what Andrew had in those clips when he's talking about like, what do you mean we always do that, you know, and like, you still like that I strangled you this time? Like, what's the difference to me being kinky and me strangling? Yeah, exactly. And so like, again, it's baby steps focusing on that moment of was that moment on that video, consensual or not, is not valuable, because like, he could always win the argument like it really does come down to He Said, She Said, who knows, you know, but we can look at like, well, this is how he's treated women for years before that. And this is how he treated that woman in that relationship. And this is why they broke up and like that gives us way more information and he also says that he's not a gorilla, pimp. So here's an example of how he gets around this title of Gorilla pimp of like, violent, abusive pimping. He says, You can't hit her. What can you do? You can get rid of her. That's it. This is devastating to women. I would give multiple fair and calm warnings I would rarely lose my temper. If I did, it was zero to 1000 instantly. My goal was shock and awe throw her stuff in her laptop out of the window screen for her to get the fuck out of the house. I didn't need my temper because girls feared it ultimately, however, if a girl didn't comply, she was replaced. Natural selection let the subservient beautiful kind females who obeyed and then when I was living with 15 women, and one would leave me and others would have a small party FDB party like that bitch party. That was a D even though he grew up in the UK. Yeah. We would talk about how stupid she was to leave. What's she going to do now? She's probably going to go on fall. In love with some sim many women who stayed stayed because they were afraid of being the subject of an FDB party. If they left. They had sat and rip so many women for leaving. They didn't want to become what they had once mocked, so they'd rather share me with every other woman in the house and obey again we see him he's never technically hit a woman. He's never chained. A woman to a radiator and like locked her in a cage or something to human traffic them. That's the kind of besides the point because they still like have not they're not in an environment where they're truly free to leave. And that celebration and humiliation of that woman is probably what scared them away from becoming humiliated. This is like the guy they've been putting on a pedestal for like a year, I guess. Yeah, exactly. This is somebody that's important to you and like what they think of you matters, and especially if he's made it so that's the only thought that matters. And he talks about like I'm their only emotional support. That is how I build my business is by like making these women emotionally dependent. Yes, he's correct. Technically, maybe the girl in the video did consent. They were giggling and laughing. And technically, those women were technically free to leave could win the argument. But if you were Yeah, but if you look at the pattern of behaviors like the behavior that pattern of behavior is degrading people to the point that they're a shell of a person and that you only Andrew Tate's reflection. Wow, that is also so addicting. I feel like I've known a couple of people who have been in abusive relationships, especially like the first month or two of dating them person creates this addiction in the victim's mind where they're like they're at an all consuming love. It's like an all consuming thought like one Well, this guy texts me all he texted me just now and that cycle of that love bombing, to not love bombing to withdrawal to anger to explosion and you're constantly trying to control this person's behavior with the way that you act. And with every decision you make every heart every detail of your skin has to be perfect in order to control this man's behavior. But ultimately, his whole philosophy is to make you consumed with that. It's just like the patriarchy and capitalism. They make you consumed it becoming the perfect employee so that you can never question the abuse that they are imprinting on you. Perfectly said and like Lundy Bancroft, in the book goes on to talk about the way that our interpersonal relationships are like a reflection of what's going on. On a societal level. And so like, but he talks about like building an abuse free world or world a world where Andrew Tate does not exist or Andrew Tate on our level also doesn't exist where we don't expect that asshole down the street or the kind of shitty boyfriend exactly the guy who thinks that he can just date you so you can pay his rent. Or the guy who so abusive for him to pay for your dinner on the first day. Because you are the guy with the fucking podcast. Yeah, the guy would fix that you owe him something. Yeah, but the the key to building like a world without all of those guys is to build a world that is free from oppression. It's like that simple. That's what it is. Okay, so I'll have you read this last little nugget from the book because I finally promote alternative to abuse and oppression by recognizing how intertwined different forms of abuse and mistreatment are the opposite of arrogantly defining reality is listening respectfully to each person's perspective. The opposite of placing yourself above other people is seeing them as equals the opposite of madly scrambling to the top whether it's the top of a corporate ladder the top of the softball league, or the top of the household pecking order is building communities devoted to cooperation and support where everyone wins. anger and conflict are not the problem. There are normal aspects of life abuses and come from people's inability to resolve conflicts. But for one person's decision to claim a higher status and another when it comes back to like patterns of behavior. The problem with Andrew Taylor and people like him began long before he's at the point of human trafficking people It comes from the idea he had I can be better than others, you know, and that thought permeates into every facet of your life and sometimes it escalates to the level I guess, of human trafficking, and sometimes it just escalates into the level of like intimate partner violence and sometimes it just means that you're gonna end up spending$5,000 on a tool swan. Sure. Yeah. You know, what I actually got from the quote is that the sense of community is actually what will deteriorate these levels of abuse. Like there's nothing more inspiring on the internet that I see Then when I see a group of men honestly shaming their like brother for hitting his wife. Have you seen those? No, I haven't. Oh, my God, I thought I'm just a show. Yeah, Ronnie. With Ronnie. Yeah, Ronnie. He pushed Samiha pushed her and all the dudes in the hospital like, Yo, we don't do that. You don't push a woman. You know, they're all like that's something you just never do. Like, that's not who we are, even though they're all misogynist and they're horrible to the women but they all ganged up on him and you could literally see that the pressures of society from around Ronnie, like he wasn't gonna respect Snooki, or Sammy or day well, but he was going to respect Mike The Situation. He was gonna speak Vinny and Pauly D. And so it's actually so funny that you say that because that's exactly what bandcroft says in the book too, because he talks about how the first thing that we need to do to like stop abusers in their tracks and I'm talking about abusers like in the Intertape episode, because I think agitate is just like an extreme version of like the type of behavior we all see all the time every day in our daily lives. But he talks about the way to end abuse is by having strong community values that literally shame this and so like yeah, the first time that he comes home, and his mother is like you shouldn't hit your wife and that his brother is like you should not hit your wife you need to stop talking to her like that. And then when he goes out into society, the men around him are like we do not accept this behavior from now we have to stop accepting we have all topics my new details of this behavior exact really strong community values and expecting better of each other. Yes, and this is why incarceration never worse is because if you're trying to throw somebody away, and I know this is very inflammatory, but there is a book called The End of policing, which is really good. It's free on my mind to where it describes what we should do. Once we end the police department. And he says that the thing about incarceration is that it obviously will not work. recidivism rates are like so high and getting rid of incarceration systems is that you cannot throw away humans they don't just disappear, they end up in places where they will reintegrate themselves back into society. And what will we do then? And what have we done then they just come back like they come back. They reinvigorate themselves into insidious men like Andrew Tay, and they inspire more men to become like them because they see a man who's lived with consequences and they teach each other how to live without consequences. They're they're training each other I mean entity is literally training other people on how to do this. Yeah, wait, we just need to make it like completely unacceptable even on the small levels. Like we don't have to wait for people to do like really egregious things we can like, be like this pattern. of behavior was dangerous and has caused harm to other people and like we condemn that, you know? Yes. And I think we need to start looking at men and talking to them about their sense of powerlessness. If they're talking about how they feel disparaged in this world of feminism. We need to be talking about them about the emotional aspect of losing privilege. Like apparently, if that's what's preventing them from connecting with feminism. You cannot just dispel those conversations, especially if it's somebody who's close to you, like you don't have to talk to and rotate but if it's your uncle, and I know they say this about racism all the time, but if it's your uncle who's talking about how his wife is kind of a bit of sometimes, like that's a conversation where you can be like, Oh, explain more about what you mean by a bitch. You know, and explain more about what you mean by your wife isn't doing enough for you? You know, and if he's feeling a sense of powerlessness, you can deal with that on a community level. But if you stop that conversation and say, I don't care if you don't feel power, it's not my place right now. It's not my place right now. Or he's the man of the house and I can't have that discussion with him. That silence on your part and I hate to put more pressure on you to work harder, but that silence on your part is what is allowing him to train your nephew and allowing your nephew to go on and train his girlfriend on how to be more silent how to be smaller in the world. You know, in the Bancroft's book, they talk about that too. It's not even necessarily about converting the most dangerous people in society but it does like having conversations like that openly and frankly, like when you come across an Andrew Tate video or you hear there's been like a lot of talk from like, elementary school teachers being like my students are obsessed with Andrew Taylor. We don't know what to do. Like we're really yeah, we're really worried about how like the impact of that. The situation is some of them may genuinely be radicalized by somebody like Andrew Tate but a lot of them just need a conversation and like what you were talking about like people like this and behaviors like this can do is like stop the people that were like kind of on the fringe. Yeah, the independence the the middle ground a middle ground. I don't really know about women's right. Yeah. And so like, just having like frank conversations about that signals to people that like may have been convinced towards evil that they can actually, you know, we can hold ourselves to a higher standard, you know, like men don't have to grade women to, I don't know, get their dishes done. I don't even know what the point of it is. But you know, yeah, um, this is really random, but I was reading Bell Hooks is Teaching to Transgress. And she talks about how the thing about teaching in the systems that we do it today is that like teachers don't, like evolve their relationships outside of the classroom. And those are the ones that make the most impact. And so she says she has students over for lunch at her house all the time. And so she said, those are the most engaging conversations because then the men that she talks to, and she's a huge feminist, and this is like, I think the 80s or even the 70s They'll come to her and be like, Oh, I'm about to join a fraternity and she instead of shaming him for and telling him about all the things that he did wrong, or how fraternities are the worst place ever, she like asks them why. And they explained that like I feel like I will never get anywhere in life. And there's other ways to add to the places in life yeah, to put the solve on that feeling of feeling like they're not getting anywhere in life like what is anywhere in life even mean for you like is it just a family and a house? Or is it power over your brothers and power, especially over your sisters you know, I read one more really great article about this, the research you did, but also by Rebecca Jennings, who I mentioned earlier, who wrote an article for Vox called we it's okay to ignore Andrew Tate and basically basically, she just makes the argument that if you will remember going back to like the playground in sixth grade or something, those boys were also violence and misogyny. Honestly, boys learn how to say things like women should be in the kitchen like for whatever reason, that is like downloaded into them, like really young and like they learn quickly to like, weaponize that against their female students. And then most of them grew up to be like perfectly fine, upstanding people that like have healthy happy relationships. Like it's just like, a process of like, understanding the world and unfortunately, we all have to like, experience misogyny to understand it, right. And so when we see Andrew Tay I think it's like really easy to panic about, oh, my God told billion people have seen his tiktoks And what are we going to do about Andrew tea, but I don't think we need to panic misogynist, like him have existed literally, since the beginning of time payments have existed actually, like as long as sex work. You know, and so truly the solution like we've said, is talk frankly about it with the people that you can treat people like your equals when you can not when you can treat people like equals treat yourself like an equal yourself like an equal and take care of yourself. Really. That's all we got. That's all folks. Yeah. And it really seems like Andrew Tate is actually literally being taken care of by the Romanian authorities. So they really came through brought that out to them to the Romania