Creating a Home Away from Home: The Fisher House Foundation's Impact on Military Families

Fisher House Foundation is best known for its network of nearly 100 comfort homes
where military and veteran families can stay at no cost while a loved one receives
treatment.  These homes are located at major military and VA medical facilities
nationwide and in Europe, close to the medical facilities they serve. Fisher Houses have
up to 21 suites with private bedrooms and baths.  Families share a common kitchen,
laundry facilities, a warm dining room, and an inviting living room.  Fisher House
Foundation ensures that there is never a lodging fee.  Since its inception, the program has saved military and veteran families an estimated $575 million in out-of-pocket costs for lodging and transportation.  

Fisher House Foundation also operates the Hero Miles Program, using donated frequent flyer miles to bring family members to the bedside of injured service members as well as the Hotels for Heroes program uses donated hotel points to allow family members to stay at hotels near medical centers without charge.  The Foundation also manages an awards program recognizing programs that support military and veteran communities and scholarship funds for military children, spouses, and children of fallen and disabled veterans. 

Connect with Fisher House:

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LinkedIn 

Transcript

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Natalie: 0:03

Hey folks, welcome to our special series heroes caring for heroes on the Confessions of a reluctant caregiver Podcast. Today, we're featuring organizations who offer services and support to our hero caregivers. Now, let's listen in as we learn more about these amazing organizations. Hey, Jay, how are you doing today? I am wonderful. Natalie. You know what, today is a very special day because this is a part of our heroes caring for Heroes series. And it's an educational podcast about one of our very favorite organizations.

JJ: 0:40

It is today we have with us, David Coker. And he is with the Fisher House. They are a fantastic partner for us on this whole series. But David, you gotta let me tell the statistics on the Fisher House first, because this is an amazing foundation. Today, there are 95 Fisher houses that operate around the world. They have served 455,000 military and veteran families 12 million days of free lodging is what they have offered 575 million in savings to families. And on any given night, more than 1300 families can be accommodated at their houses. David, you started you were the first employee with the foundation

Natalie: 1:29

number one,

Unknown: 1:30

I know he's not that old, either. But

Natalie: 1:32

you know, he's very young.

JJ: 1:33

Yes. Started as the first employee and not to 94. There were 14 houses then. So you've got the whole story. We are so excited to have you and so excited to learn more about the Fisher House?

Unknown: 1:48

Well, I'll tell you, I've been so privileged to to be a part of the Fisher House story. And and when Zach and Elizabeth first started the program, I always tell my staff, it's a good day to be in the blessing business, because that's, that's what we do. Yeah, Zach had a had a problem. He was a millionaire in New York City, but New York City had a lot of millionaires. And so in trying to think what he could do to give back, he helped create and support the Intrepid Sea Air Space Museum. And through that there was a natural relationship with the Navy. And he got to know, Admiral Carl TROs, who was the chief of naval operations. And he said, You know what, I really want to do something for the military. That'll be a blessing, not just for the Navy, but all the surfaces, what can I do? And so Admiral TROs, went to his staff and said, Okay, guys, we've got this question that's been posed in this opportunity. What do I tell them? And they thought about it and being a smart man, he also went to his wife and said, Honey, I've got this offer. What do I do? And she remembered a helicopter medivac helicopter landing at what was then the National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda. And the patient comes out on the gurney. And then the family comes out. And it just struck her, you know, here in Washington, DC, where is that family going to stay? So the answer came back to Zack, we need something like a rolling mcdonald house. That said, I'm a builder. You know, my career has been in real estate development in New York. Let me take care of this. And he proffered two houses, one for the army at Walter Reed Army Medical Center and one for the Navy at the National Naval Medical Center. As they were building those he thought about it and said, Hmm, Army Navy, maybe the Air Force needs one. And the deficit. Oh, absolutely. But we need ours in San Antonio, Texas, where our big medical center as and three became five and as it as it continued to grow Zach's friends. These were all funded the first 20 houses were funded by Zach writing a check. And so he proved the value of the program. Well, as the program got bigger. His friend said, you know, this is got the potential to be something special, you need to create a foundation. I'm a recovering healthcare administrator last year, retired from the Army in 94. But when I was stationed at the Army Medical Center in Denver, we received the gift of a house and I just fell in love with the concept and I I asked my chief of staff if I could be the point person and through that has just been amazing. But that first Thanksgiving fits Emmons was a medical center that we're known for two things caring for the older population through our graduate medical education program. But we also had a tremendous NICU. At first Thanksgiving, we had five families in the house, the house could support up to seven families, but they were all NICU babies. And being together at Thanksgiving and sharing the blessing of the care that those children were getting it as, you know, just doesn't get any better than that. And we have been able to grow the program and bring an invaluable resource to new communities. If it's one thing we know, it's life happens when you get that call, and you learn that a loved one is ill or injured, you want two things, you want the best medical care and you want to be there. That's right. The military and VA health systems are two of the best in the world, having a place for families to stay is a little bit more of a challenge. And that's where we can come in and make a difference. Oh,

Natalie: 6:11

I love that.

JJ: 6:12

The story about the baby's kind of gave me the chills.

Natalie: 6:18

I love her I love it. Good story, too. And so I think it's so important because you all are caring for the caregivers. And they're not just families because they really are, you know, we say they're dual roles. Because when you go into something like that, your role changes you have it you have to you take off your wife hat and your wife and and you're and this or and that and and there's a whole bunch of ads. And I can remember David trying to figure out when my husband had cancer, where are we going to live when we were going to get his treatment? And so you the Fisher House Foundation really answers that question for families. And you don't have to worry about a where that's one less stressor. And that is that is a blessing because I can tell you thinking about having to find where am I going to stay? Well, one of the most difficult times of my life is going on, and my loved one and I have no control over that. It's a that's a gift that is such a gift. And so you're on the road to 100 I like it's crazy. It's it's like okay, and so, you know, you'll reach 100 Fisher houses next year. And the 100 is still to be determined is what I hear. So what's the plan for that? And beyond? Do you think?

Unknown: 7:40

Well, it'll definitely be beyond we have at least one house at every major Military Medical Center. And there are only so many of those. We actually have five houses at the Walter Reed, National Military Medical Center. But we've got the military covered. And when we went Secretary of Veterans Affairs, Zack had gotten a letter from a nurse in Albany, New York saying, you know, what you're doing for the military is great. But we need that in the VA. And what better place in your home state of New York and Zach got the letter? And he said, You know what? I'm gonna do this. And so he built that one. And we went to the Secretary and said, Well, do you need any more, and they came back with a list of 70 plus places. And we said, Okay, we're good. We're not that good. Yeah, you're not that good. Yes. Because the minimum of us your top 10. And that way, we know we're building at places that are priority. And that want the resource that Fisher House brings. So we've have gone through that list of 10 Every so often, and then the VA gets bold, and they'll give us a list of 15 bold right now. There are 22 locations. Wow, that need a Fisher House. We are building it three right now. And we know there'll be another 19 I'd always said early on that. Or if we ever get 100 It's time for me to retire. Now that's just the beginning. Maybe 120 100

Natalie: 9:23

like that. You're like I just extended it a little. We'll see how

Unknown: 9:26

it goes. But know that we'll we'll celebrate the day when we went to we cut the ribbon on 100. And we might invite a few people out for dinner. But then we've got to get to work the next day and get to that next community. Because the program is it. We call it a public private partnership. We come in and on government land we will build this facility that supports the families of those receiving care in return the Secretary of the Army, Navy, Air Force or Veterans Affairs. I agree to operate and maintain it in perpetuity. And by doing that, it provides the resource for the community served. It keeps the directors and the commanders involved in being a part of the equation. And it lets us focus on the next community that's going to receive the gift of a Fisher House. Wow. So, Natalie,

Natalie: 10:23

I was just gonna say I do love skin in the game.

JJ: 10:25

I know. Well, let me ask you a question. Because I know that you are hoping that you hear accolades constantly about the program that the homes we interviewed Pam like Esther's and their son was, they actually stayed in a Fisher House. And during our conversation, they told us about their son's injury that he was flown from Germany to Texas. And they, you know, they said, we were able to stay at a Fisher House. We didn't prompt them. We didn't ask him. They just said we stayed at a Fisher House. And we were like, wow, tell me how, how does that occur? When you've got someone that's that it's hard? How do you stay in a Fisher House? What's the How does that process work?

Unknown: 11:06

There's a couple of different ways. Hopefully, people will know that there's a program like Fisher House, and we'll ask the question, oh, can Can I stay there? Yeah. At the same time, the commander's appreciate the resource. There's the admission part where you're talking with somebody and they say, Oh, do you have a place to stay? I don't know. Well, here, here's the Fisher House, then within 24 hours of being admitted, there's somebody from the discharge planning team and a social worker Chaplain that come by and say, How are you doing? Let's work on getting you out of the hospital. What are your needs? Do you have a place to stay, and of course, the ultimate our, the nurses, they know everything that's going on. And if there's somebody camped out in the room, you know, depending upon the acuity of the patient, sometimes you just need to be there. Sometimes you recognize, okay, this family may have a little bit more of a challenge. So there are a lot of touch points where people can be referred to a fish or house. Sometimes it may take a few days before they learn about it. And that's why having this opportunity to tell people about the programs so valuable. Because even if you don't have a member of your family that that served in the military, somebody in your circle, may be going through a life experience. And to be able to say, well have you thought about this, you know, we relish the opportunity, because when you first get that call, your mind goes into a different mode, you don't think is clearly the things you're concerned about may not really be number one on the list, but they are in your mind. And what I found is those normal daily activities, being able to get the cup of coffee to talk with somebody else with a shared experience, and being able to come back to a place, it just gives you a little sense of stability, and it makes you stronger to face the challenges of the day, you see somebody going through a similar experience. And maybe with cancer treatment, they're in their third or fourth week, and it gives you hope that you're gonna get there. Yeah, and it's an amazing thing. But you know, we build the house, and we really then our jobs to get out of the way, and just let the family support one another. Because good things are gonna happen.

Natalie: 13:47

Well, and that's, you know, in talking with Michelle Horne, who works with the arrow, and she's just an amazing, she is a blessing as well, both her and Mary. I think one of the things is it's fun, it's like going to church, it's building, but it is the purpose behind it. It is the love that's put into it, and it is the people inside it that really help heal and support. Because it's just it's not just respectful. It's not just the hotel. It is a place

Unknown: 14:18

for we don't use th word.

Natalie: 14:20

Yeah. You're really, we're a Fisher House. So it's true, though, because it's a place to come together. And you're right about shared experience and the healing and the value in relationship. Absolutely.

Unknown: 14:34

There are just so many stories that the highlight is always meeting the families. I remember one time and the first thing you do is meet the folks and of course, they're always very gracious. But I remember meeting this one young veteran in Houston and he's just at syrup. I want to thank you for saving my life as excuse me Tell me more. And he explained, he lives several hours away down in the valley. And he learned he had cancer, and that he'd have to come to Houston for several weeks for treatment. He knew he couldn't afford to bring his wife and stay in the big city. So he was just going to accept what time you had left. Or there was a Fisher House, and he could stay for free. And he came and he got the treatment. And that morning, he had been told he's in remission, you can go home now. And so we, we have the ability to change the path people decide to take. And it's an amazing thing I, you know, we've learned a lot from the people who have graced our houses. I remember, in an interview being asked, Isn't it tough to be around people who are facing such challenges. And you do visualize, and you do see people in very difficult circumstances, but the way they approach it, and the way they deal with it is nothing short of inspirational. I mean, I'm going into the house, I'm about six foot forward coming out, I'm about six foot six, it's just an amazing thing to be able to be a part of. And so if anybody has the ability to volunteer at a house to come in and cook a dinner, you know, you'll get to hear the stories of the people staying there. And you're gonna walk out a little bit taller.

Natalie: 16:32

Oh, I love that. Well, and I know that the Fisher House isn't just for adults, I know that Jessica Allen when her husband was injured, and she's going to be a guest on the series, I know that she talked about, that's where they stayed with her little with her girls, and that the girls, that it was a safe place for them to be able to continue being children during a very challenging life, and that they saw their dad that they were there, like they saw the Fisher House. And I've seen this story and they're like, Okay, can we go play. And I think that's what I'm that's what I mean by a safe place when children feel safe to continue being children, even during the hard times for the adults, because they don't may not comprehend what's going on. That's so, so important.

Unknown: 17:20

Well, and a lot of times, we worry more about how children are going to react, then what we should because, you know, there are a lot of people who gave up and service. So that first time they see their father, their their mother with Adeline, you wonder how they're going to react. Remember one story of one parent who was the wife was explaining to their child now that he has lost a leg and he doesn't look the same. And the child came in the room and just gave a great big hug. And it's like, but it's still daddy. And that's the most important thing. And during the conflict when there were a lot of people in that in the house with had either given a limb and service or had become disfigured in some way. The home provided that environment where they could be themselves. Without the sense of, okay, everybody's looking at me. They're judging me for the way I look. And because I look different. Well, everybody looked a little different. It was a source of that, I hope, comfort and strength for each of them.

JJ: 18:38

So David, I know, we would be remiss not to talk about the other things that the Fisher House does

Natalie: 18:44

not just the home Fisher House Foundation does so many more much. So let me just ask this, while you are wanting to be hit as many places as possible, you all have been have been thoughtful in your partners so that if you don't have a Fisher House in an area, you have a mileage programs with the airlines and the hotels, I'd love to hear more about that. Who knows.

Unknown: 19:10

You know, we we've learned a lot from the people who've raised their houses and one of those is the barrier of transportation. After the war started, the government would bring up to three members of a family and to support the Wounded Service member. On number one families don't come in threes. And you know, the other part of that is, you get that call you go you get there, you don't turn off the stove. You don't turn off the water you just get and so you get there and you see that your loved one might have a long recovery ahead. But then you also think about the stove and the water and they would go and ask somebody in army Hey, can I go on and get back home I need to check colonies thanks, sure we can get you back home while they were intending to go home just for a brief visit and come back to support their loved one. But the coordinator didn't quite tell him well when you fly back the support from the military ends. And so we used donated frequent flyer miles to provide the flights and so that they wouldn't lose the benefits, but they could go and take care of their business. You mentioned Jessica, when Chaz was first injured, she did not want the children to see him at his worst, right. And so she would switch out with her mother, her mother, his mother, with one of their mothers, they come in so that somebody was always with Chaz. But at the same time, the girls could stay in school, and have minimal disruption to their life, until he was well enough for them to really see and visit, right. It was just instrumental. And it's given us the ability to make the experience, one where it was possible for families to be there. Because if you lose your benefits, that's a nother issue. People have given up incomes to be there. Yeah. And so we're, we're pleased to be able to do that. And we've done Gosh, nearly 85,000 round trip flights. Wow. And we've also used those miles to partner with other organizations to make them more effective. Last year, we helped more than 40 other nonprofits, who rather than spend money on travel, and their core program, if we help them out with the travel, remove that the barrier of transportation, it's lets them focus on what they do, well, everybody focuses in and there's just a purity of purpose between the two, learn that if it works for airlines, maybe it'll work for hotels, and it there, and so we're pleased to be able to help people, and either help them participate in another organizations program that will help them on their journey of recovery. Or sometimes, traffic accidents happen. And the right place to receive care is not where there's a Fisher House. So we can help those families as well. Wow.

JJ: 22:35

Now we're going into the season of giving. And so we want to say that delta and united will be matching models in November. Is that correct? Is

Unknown: 22:44

that appropriate? It should start right around Veterans Day. Okay, that's what we wanted to make sure and should go through the month. Okay. One of one of the challenges we have is that we don't know who gives the miles, we're always grateful that, you know, the airlines want to protect their security. But there's also tremendous power in community and you don't have to give 30,000 miles or 50,000 Miles 1000 Miles makes a difference, because there are hundreds and 1000s of others doing the same. And it helps us meet the next need.

JJ: 23:27

And all the information we'll have about donating miles and your hotel points, we'll have that in our notes and everything, David, because we love that, you know, if you, you know, if you can't give, you know, a monetary contribution, I think that's a great way because I have points that I know I'm not going to use on certain things. And I'm like Muslim that he can use them. So we love that concept. But no, you guys also in addition to that you do service awards, you do scholarships for military children, I just want to make sure people know that you guys are so much more. You are an unbelievable foundation. Can you tell us a little bit about those two things?

Unknown: 24:04

Well, with the Fisher Service Award, it originally started with Paul Newman. And through Newman's Own because we're proceeds would go to charity. And as he got into the commissary system, he says, Well, I want to support a good military nonprofit. And the Fisher House was mentioned and he came to us and said, How can I help? Well, in talking with them, one of the challenges they had they had done a contest, where enter this contest, and it was with a national retail place. And you can give away 500,000 And they only had hundreds of entries across the country. And their research showed Well, if we have to give it away. We don't want to compete. Well. One of the challenges we have is being only at the major military medical centers. We're supporting a force that's deployed worldwide. So we talked to them and said, Well, how about if we work with you, we'll have people tell us about a problem in their community. And we'll help meet that need. And so it started out as the Newman's Own award. When When Paul passed away, it transitioned to the Fisher Service Award. And as you start to be successful, there's a temptation to try to be all things to all people, and you just can't do that. But by doing this, we get to recognize and support people with great ideas, get a little visibility, a lot of awareness for what they do. And at the end of the day, we're all united by our love for the military and veterans community. And by encouraging them, we're giving them the opportunity to have this access that we were blessed with.

Natalie: 25:59

Wow, wow. Well, and that grant program opens on October 25, which is fantastic. We'll make sure that we put that because our campaign for the series starts October 23. So we will make sure to put that to all of our folks and sit and share that too. So I think, you know, the more ideas and the more. I mean, that's the biggest thing is that, you know, I had someone, a representative from Vantage Point Foundation in South Carolina, met those folks, they're going to be on the series, and she was saying they were both she and her husband, both military, and Marines, we will hold that against them, David. And so since we're army, but um, but she was saying, you know, there's so much support. But when you transition out, it's hard to kind of navigate after you've transitioned out. And so I think what you're doing here, being able to identify nonprofits that support them in their nonprofit, along with upstate warrior solutions in South Carolina met those folks. You know, there's, there's what happens after and so you guys are meeting a purpose. And you're right, you can't be all things to everyone, but you sure can partner with someone to help with continuity so that it makes it a little bit easier as you're trying to navigate during a crisis. Yeah,

Unknown: 27:15

well, and the other thing that judges for the Fisher Service Award are senior military spouses. Oh, and so it educates them about what's happening in the community. And so there are several layers to this onion.

JJ: 27:31

Yeah. It's like the admirals wife, you know, a lot of those spouses have a lot of play, you know, so,

Unknown: 27:39

hey, we're not afraid to go over the admirals head.

Natalie: 27:44

Well, and you know, there's also J another just I want to point out one more, well, there's two more things I really want to hit on. Scholarships for military children will open in December, what, tell us a little bit more about the scholarships,

Unknown: 27:57

we actually have three scholarship programs, and we were at an event and the general was talking to the crowd and said, you know, rather than have a giveaway and give a raft or a new car, let's do something that would be a support the military community, and he had the idea of scholarships. And so our commandment was we would provide at least one scholarship per commissary to help recognize the efforts and support the children of those who serve. While the program has always been much bigger than that. And Our Commandment was that we would handle all the admin expenses. So every dollar donated would go out as $1 in scholarship. And we've been able to get out, instead of 130 scholarships per commissary, we've always been able to do about 500. Wow. Rather than give a large scholarship, we give a $2,000 scholarship. And we do that, because in many military communities, I don't know how it was in your high school. But you know, the top five kids got all the scholarships. Yes. So by capping it, we can go deeper into the batch, and is to be a blessing to more families. President Obama came to us and said, Well, I want to do something special for those whose children have been killed, or become 100%, disabled since 911. And so we started the heroes legacy scholarship. And you know, that's one where every child who qualifies in that area gets a scholarship. This past year, we've given out $1.4 million in scholarships there. And then, in thinking about impacting the military family, there's nothing bad Other than supporting the spouses, you know, they have to move every few years. That brings its own challenges in terms of finishing school. And so rather than create our own program, we saw what the National Military Family Association was doing through their spouse scholarship. And we are the biggest funder of that program. If you want to change the direction the opportunities for family, help educate the spouse, you know, help them get their career, and that will have a lasting benefit that goes far beyond the cost of a scholarship. So we're very proud of of those programs and the difference that it makes to those those families.

Natalie: 30:45

Wow. Well, here's my favorite. And we talked about it before we got on David. When I learned that you of course you guys will be connected to the Invictus Games. And you know, I love the Olympics and thinking about them for you know, next year when they're coming around. It's about time for them to come around again, that the Invictus Games are just so special. Tell us a little bit more how you guys are connected to the Invictus Games, because you all just came back at the end of September from the Invictus Games in Germany, I believe

Unknown: 31:17

we did. And we had heard about the very first Department of Defense Warrior Games. And it was a great event. This was oh my gosh, a long time ago. It was a minute there was, you know, it seems like yesterday. But it used to be that the US Olympic Training Center, DOD would come in the Department of Defense, and they wanted to have a competition because, you know, so often when somebody was wounded, they would get essentially a cocktail of drugs that would take away the pain. And they'd go into this mode where they were just existing. Yeah, yeah. And for so many in the military, at sports that gets you working to improve yourself, you go around the track. And the next time you do it, you're 20 seconds faster. And it, it gives you a sense of accomplishing something. And that success just eases over into all areas of your life, your relationship with your spouse, your relationship with others the confidence you have in yourself. And so we knew the Warrior Games was something special. That first year, it was just the Warriors participating in a few families. And so we said, You know what every family deserves the right to be there, they've been on the journey of recovery they deserve to celebrate. So starting with that second year, we brought in to friends and or family, to be a part of it to witness to encourage to share in the experience. And Prince Harry came and saw that in 2013, because the United Kingdom had a team participating as well. And he said, you know, this is something that ought to be international. And so in 2014, he hosted the first games in London, and we wanted to support the US team. And so we offered that and as we learned more about it and thought about it says, you know, America has a responsibility to show other countries, how you should treat your veterans. And this is a chance for us to do that on an international stage. And so we were privileged to have been a part of Invictus Games from its inception. And we're the only organization to do that. And that difference that makes and it has now grown to 20 countries, participating 600 athletes, and what you witnessed there, I mean, people will go out there, my favorite sport is swimming, and the buzzer goes off, they get in the water, everybody does their best the first person touches and the place just gets louder and louder until the last person does. Wow. When you swim you you swim with what you've got left. And when you see a triple amputee out there swimming and competing. It is just an amazing experience and to be able to be a part of not only, you know, seeing it is enough, but to be able to help the family be there and be a part and the appreciation they have for the struggle and the accomplishment. And the celebration is something special and we're very proud to be a part of it.

JJ: 34:56

You know, David, when you first came on I will say you You said you say to your staff, it's a good day to be in the blessing business. And you have definitely blessed us today as your house, just learning what you do, it's been a blessing for us to find out about it. And I hope that the people that hear the story and what you all do, will share the message military family or not, because the message and what the foundation does, it should definitely be heard. It is wonderful. And you guys are wonderful.

Unknown: 35:30

Well, thank you. And we are privileged to be able to do what we do when when the program started, it was a gift from ZACHARY And Elizabeth Fisher. Today, it's a gift from the American people. And I can't tell you, you know, going over overseas and in Germany, the senior military are so envious of the support Americans give and provide. And, again, we're pleased to represent it's a tremendous privilege. But we recognize, I might have told Mr. Fisher, it's brilliant leadership. The truth is, it's who we serve. People have such a deep love and respect for the men and women who serve, that they want to be a part and they want to know that their money is going to a good place their resources, going to a good place that makes a difference. And we are blessed that they often choose Fisher houses that mode of making a difference.

Natalie: 36:34

Well, you know what we are, like JJ said, I want to echo that we are so blessed to have this conversation with you today. And I know that this information is going to we're going to, you know, share it far and wide. I know that you've got lots of partners, you know, I'm going to hit on a couple of things delta and united, you can donate their donate your miles, but they'll also be matching, I'm actually flying Delta tonight to a conference. So I'm like, huh, those miles would go a long way. And so it sounds like there's another airline that I know of, I'd love for them to jump on, because that's how I typically fly. Now, now that I know delta and united play, good to know, because social responsibility it is it's important. And so and then the hotel, so we're going to make sure that in the show notes, and on the website, we'll make sure all of these awesome benefits, ways that you can give back whether you're volunteering, you know, it sounds like time talent. Resource is what you guys would be happy to have. So whether it's financial resources or volunteering to spend time sounds like there's a lot of ways that you can engage with the Fisher houses to be a blessing to other people. So David, thank you so much for being with us.

Unknown: 37:47

Thank you, David. Thank you for the opportunity.

Natalie: 37:50

Absolutely, guys, thank you so much. Thank you for listening to our special series heroes caring for heroes. Please visit our website to learn more about our featured organizations supporting hero caregivers. Before you go, please take a moment to leave us a review and tell your friends about the confessions podcast. Make sure you connect with us on your favorite social media site to stay up to date on all things, caregiving. And of course, you will find the video recording of our episodes on the confessions website and our YouTube Channel. We'll see you next time when we confess again