The Power of the Pause: Finding Relief in Caregiving with Jenn Fredericks

Jenn Fredericks is the featured guest in this episode, sharing her deeply personal journey as both a long-term patient and a dedicated caregiver. Diagnosed with chronic kidney disease as a teenager, Jenn received her first kidney transplant from her father at age 15, and later a second from her husband’s twin brother. Her life took another challenging turn when her adopted daughter was diagnosed with a brain tumor at the age of eight. Jenn describes the overwhelming responsibilities of managing her own health while navigating her daughter’s complex medical needs, all while supporting her family and working through the emotional toll of caregiving.

Throughout the episode, Jenn offers candid insights into the realities of caregiver exhaustion, discussing moments of vulnerability, anxiety, and the struggle to maintain resilience. She emphasizes the importance of taking intentional pauses—physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual—to recharge and remain present for loved ones. Drawing from her experiences, Jenn has developed resources such as a caregiver exhaustion quiz and founded the Carewell Circle, an online community for caregivers seeking support and connection. Her story is a testament to the power of self-awareness, community, and proactive self-care in the face of ongoing caregiving challenges.

About Jenn:

Jenn Fredericks understands the unique challenges of caregiving from a deeply personal perspective. For over 30 years, she has navigated her own health journey with chronic kidney disease, which has included two transplants. For more than a decade, she has also been a caregiver for her daughter through complex health challenges, including a brain tumor, and she now provides long-distance care for her parents.

This extensive experience led Jenn to a powerful realization. While others called her "resilient," she often felt overwhelmed, to the point of being unable to walk through her own front door. Recognizing the gap between her inner feelings and the world's perception, she became a Personal Resilience Practitioner and Prosilience Coach. She discovered that true resilience isn't about being tougher; it begins with learning how to find small moments of presence, even in the middle of chaos.

To share these insights with other caregivers, Jenn founded Carewell Circle, a community for those who understand the complex emotions of loving someone deeply while feeling trapped. She has also created a guide titled "Caregiving Relief You Don't Have to Wait For." Through her work, she teaches others the same powerful techniques that helped her find peace amidst her own challenges.

Quiz: “What’s Draining You Most Right Now?”

subscribepage.io/caregiverquiz

Carewell Circle: 

swarm.store/jenn-fredericks-prosilience-coach

Thank you to our sponsor: CareScout

Transcript

Natalie: 0:03

Hey guys, it's your favorite sisters with the Confessions of a reluctant caregiver. Podcast. On the show, you'll hear caregivers confessing the good, the bad and the completely unexpected. You're guaranteed to relate, be inspired. Lead with helpful tips and resources, and, of course, laugh. Now, let's get to today's confession. I Jay,

JJ: 0:33

so I love like when we get started, because you're doing mouth exercises.

Natalie: 0:38

You know, it also looks like one of those. Even Jen's doing mouth exercises. Yeah, it's great. You know, I believe mouth exercises make you happy, like we're getting ready to start. It pushes your it makes you smile, it makes you laugh, it gets those happy endorphins going in your body. And there's nothing that makes me happier than recording a podcast and recorded a podcast with my favorite oldest sister,

JJ: 1:05

yeah. Well, I just want to tell you that watching you do mouth exercises actually makes like you kind of look like. You know, you know when you see that, and not to say that, it's like a horse, but Mr. Ed, when he laughs, his mouth is like you can see. And then

Natalie: 1:24

I actually feel like a little bit like The Walking Dead, who, if you'd like to sponsor us, there's no, I'm sure there's caregiving in the walking

Unknown: 1:33

I think caregivers.

Natalie: 1:35

I feel a little bit like the walking around. Sorry, sorry, guys, we went off the rails. Next morning.

JJ: 1:44

I got, I got a surprise for you. We do have a guest,

Natalie: 1:48

and she's not a zombie.

JJ: 1:50

She is kicking it, and she is, she's kicking butt. And I am super I told her before we got started, I'm actually super excited today, because she has yet another tool for me, I'm very selfish, because anytime somebody

Natalie: 2:06

cast for interventions for ourselves so that we can also survive.

JJ: 2:09

Yes, see, there you go. And so let me, let me introduce you to her, because I'm getting started. I mean, I'm going straight to tools. I don't care about her story. I

Natalie: 2:18

want to know how she survives. That is so kind.

JJ: 2:20

I know, I know. So, okay, I'll listen to the story first. Okay, today we have Jen Fredericks, and she's joining us. She totally understands caregiving, guys, it's as a giver and as a receiver. Now, Jen has been living with chronic kidney disease for over 30 years, and for the past 10 years, she's been caregiving for her daughter through health challenges, including a brain tumor. Now she's also long distance caring for her parents. Jen says she could be sitting in her car some days, unable to face walking through her own front door because she felt so overwhelmed, while everyone around her kept saying how resilient she was. Don't you love that? Like everybody's like, Oh, you're doing a great job. You're so fantastic. I

Natalie: 3:06

didn't have to do anything to help. Thanks. Yeah,

JJ: 3:09

so. But she says that experience, that experience led her, I think that experience led her down a path to help others, including the creation of the caregiving relief. You don't have to wait for God like that name. Right off the bat, here's spoiler alert. It all starts with a pause. I can't believe you get it. So that's what I'm waiting on. The way, Jen, we are so excited to have you here with us

Unknown: 3:35

today. Thank you so much. I've been looking forward to speaking with you guys.

Natalie: 3:40

Oh well, we're gonna have good fun. And I'm very interested to hear about your caregiving experience. And really, it's almost a little bit of a reverse, with you being a recipient, you actually having your own kind of chronic illness yourself and having a long term illness that you've been dealing with and managing, and then the roles shifted, because I'm sure you know you're the mama bear. So anyway, I don't want to even get further into that. I want you to roll it out, and then we'll ask questions as we're going along, because Moo, we're interrupting cows. So let's start off with how we always start off. Give us a little bit about your background. Tell us where you're from. Tell us from. Tell us about family, of course, birth order we are always interested in, but just kind of bring us up to speed and get us where, you know, tell us, tell us about life and up to care.

Unknown: 4:33

Yeah. So Well, I was born in Ohio, but I now live in Wisconsin, and in between there, there were several moves as well. I am the baby and the youngest, the baby of how many, just two. My sister's nine years older than I am, and she currently lives in the Midwest as well, but about, you know, seven hours from me. So that's sad, but I lived a lot in. In Ohio on a farm. We moved to Texas with my dad's job, and then I started feeling ill. Then in middle school, found ourselves in a small, small town in upstate New York, where the doctor finally was like, Oh, I know what's wrong with you. It's not chronic fatigue syndrome, it's kidney disease, and you need a kidney transplant at 15? Wow. Yeah, so it big, wow. It was, I mean, kind of like divine intervention that we were in this huge metropolitan area and then moved to this small rural town, and that primary doctor, my new pediatrician, is the one who said, I know what this is, and I was very blessed to receive a kidney from my dad. Oh, wow, yeah, that lasted 18 years through all of the growing up milestones, and then I got tired and it said, I'm out. And I was lucky enough that I had married into the right family, because my husband's fraternal twin brother was a match and gave me a kidney in 2012

Natalie: 6:04

No kidding, yeah,

JJ: 6:06

this is a very these people are generous of their kidneys. I'm not sure I could give you a kid. That is fine. I mean, you know what pass

Natalie: 6:12

out? Was there like a test on the sense of from your from your brothers? I like that your your husband's it was your husband's fraternal twin brother, which I love, that he's a twin, because twins run in our family too, which is near and dear to our heart. But did he check with you this a like, how have you treated your dad's kidney? Which is, I mean, you know, were you kind to it in your 20s? Were you were you respectful of the kidney? Because if I'm going to go under the slice of dicey, right, I need you to make this one work for a while. So

Unknown: 6:43

funny story, my dad is a connoisseur of Jack Daniels,

Natalie: 6:50

and so doesn't love little bourbon,

Unknown: 6:53

especially in a coke. And so right after the transplant with my father, back in 93 I did go through an acute kidney rejection where I lived in the hospital for about a month, trying to get the kidney back to liking my body. And my dad looks at the doctor and said, Well, you just need to set up an IV of Jack Daniels, because it's been without

Natalie: 7:15

for a while, saying, I know he was gonna say, could you just pipe in Jack? Because yeah, it'll remember, it'll be, it'll perk right up and be like, I'm sorry. What dad, love your dad. That's hilarious. This makes me happy. Yeah, this is yes. I feel like the name of this is gonna be Jack. This episode is gonna be a little Jack.

JJ: 7:35

I mean,

Unknown: 7:36

a little Jack can never hurt. Well, I mean, can? I can for some people, but thankfully so I do, I do treat my kidney really well. We ended up naming it. I didn't name my first kidney. But then a nurse asked me once here in Milwaukee, like, Hey, have you named your kidney from your brother? I'm like, Oh, wow. He really likes sports and stuff, so maybe I'll name it Giannis for the bucks player. So,

Natalie: 7:58

oh, okay, that's I like that you named it after football, because that seems lately appropriate from a person who lives in Wisconsin.

Unknown: 8:10

Giannis is a basketball player, but I wouldn't have been aware either, because I like music and theater and not so much sports. But the only reason I know is because of my brother in law, so

Natalie: 8:21

he named it after a basketball player, all right? Well, as long as we got the sports theme going on, a little rocky music in my in my ear, like, done. It didn't, like work it out, like lifting weights and stuff, running up the stairs in Philly. But anyways, kidney is

Unknown: 8:37

staying. It's there for good. It's treated really well and and that's one of the reasons why I thought I had it when my daughter was

JJ: 8:47

diagnosed with her brain. So how many, how many children do you have? Yeah, tell

Natalie: 8:52

us about getting married and all that. Oh, yeah. So,

Unknown: 8:56

so I met my husband because I dated his best friend from kindergarten before I dated and married my husband and we're all still really great friends. We actually just saw each other a couple of weeks ago at a party for my in laws 50th wedding anniversary. So anyway, lovely wedding, I think, like seven attendees on either side. It was a beautiful celebration, and my husband and I are just, I'm not. He doesn't call me his best friend. He's like, No, it's deeper than a best friend. But I'm like, but I want a best friend, so I'm calling you my best friend, but we have a lot in common. Really. Love to listen to jam band music and spend time up at my in laws cabin on the lake during the summer. Really, I just couldn't ask for a better partner in this whole journey. And you know, he married me knowing that I have a bum kidney and that we'd be looking at adoption as a way to build our family, rather than me being able to carry a child and. He was like, Why? Why would I want to have a child with anyone else if it isn't you? And yes, that's the way we'll, we'll build a family. And so we did. We welcomed our daughter into our family in 2008 and she is just, I call it a sunshine with the sky blue eyes. I love it. It's a blind belt.

JJ: 10:23

Got it? Okay? So, so we're swimming. I mean, you're swimming

Unknown: 10:27

along, like doing what it's supposed to

Natalie: 10:30

so let me ask you this. I did. I didn't realize your daughter was adopted. And so, number one, I always say thank you to anyone who chooses adoption, because there are so many children who need love and care and that are out there. And so if you have the ability to adopt and it works for your family, then, yeah, this is this. You should do it. It's very rewarding. So how old was? Tell me you said she was eight when you adopted

Unknown: 10:55

her. Oh, I'm sorry, no, that's when she was diagnosed. She we brought her home at five weeks old. Oh, she was a baby, so we drove to the western side of the state. We were there the evening she was born. We got to hold her that night, and then, with all of the legal proceedings and everything she did, live away from us for about four weeks, and we were able to visit, but then we were foster parents for six months. That's how it works here in Wisconsin. Yep, right. Then finalized in May and okay, do you guys like numbers? Sure. Okay. 29 I had my first kidney transplant. July 29 1993 we were able to bring our daughter, Layla, home. October 29 2008 we finalize the adoption. May 29 2009 like 29 is, is a number. For me, 29

Natalie: 11:52

is your number. I like that. Let me ask this. Did you know if her biological family had a history of any where was that information share? Because there's, there's something to be said for knowing I'm just having worked in the foster care system for men and mental health for 25 years. There's something to be said for having awareness about what happened in utero. And is this a child that was substance exposed, like, is there a family history? Because then you have to really mentally plan for care and so, and not just, I'm raising a child, I say that respectfully,

Unknown: 12:26

yeah, yeah. Well, we actually have a I would call a semi open adoption with her birth parents. And so we did receive a lot of information. We met them, they chose us as her adoptive parents. And from everything that we know of them, and some of the, you know, medical records that were released, she was very, very well taken care of. Oh, wow, yeah. So this is great. This brain tumor thing was like, yeah, it was like a fluke. I mean, pretty much the doctor said. And as soon as she was diagnosed, I first thought of her birth mother and like, I want to let her know that this isn't something genetic. The doctor said it's

Natalie: 13:11

bad luck. Wow. So she is.

JJ: 13:15

She's eight years old now. Are you? I'm assuming you and your husband. Are you guys working? So this is kind of a you're, you're feeling great, good kidney. You're like, Hey, I'm

Unknown: 13:24

working at Harley Davidson at the time in events. We love Harley Yes. So I got to go work Sturgis. I was working Atlantic Bike Week, you know, I was around for the anniversaries here in Milwaukee. I was, you know, chugging along. And he's a product development manager with an engineering background, and she just kept having these headaches, just like headaches. Why are she having that? She's so she was in gymnastics, very active, you know, very full of life, and they had us start tracking Well, is it food allergies? Is it anxiety? Is it? Whatever it is. And I finally pushed enough mama bear to say, I'm not doing this anymore. You are giving me imaging. And they got me imaging. And I actually, my husband was out of town the day she was diagnosed, and I called him and I said, well, the neurologist won't see her because she's has a headache and is throwing up. They want us to go to children's and have some migraine meds given to her. And I said, so I think that that's what's going to happen. It's not like I'm expecting a brain tumor or anything. Click, hung up the phone. The Tech actually accidentally left the curtain open between the CT room where we are were and then the monitor, and I have never seen a brain tumor before. I've seen a lot of insides, like through kidney ultrasounds and stuff, but as soon as I saw the imaging come across,

Natalie: 14:52

wow, wow. I'm assuming this, this really kind of affects you guys. And. 1000 different ways, and you immediately, I mean, you already have your mama hat on. You've been a mama to her for eight years, but this is a different level of planning and and welcome to doctors visits and all the things that come along with any type of, you know, significant illness and prognosis and all the, all the things, because it is kind of scary, if you think about it, you know, a tumor in your brain. You're like, I kind of need that. Like, yeah, yeah. You kind of need a kidney,

Unknown: 15:35

yeah. But yeah, you got two of those. So, yeah, you really need, you really need to breathe. You need

Natalie: 15:41

the whole brain, mostly, yeah, so, so then, so at this point, you know, how does life start to shift for you and your husband? What are what starts to happen? Because you're going into you, in my mind, you become the dual role of caregiver. Starts to really show its face, I would assume, man, now you're doing now you're really going above and beyond what your average parent is going to do with traditional follow ups and sick calls and all that kind of stuff. Yeah,

Unknown: 16:11

you know, I thought I had it all handled. I had it all figured out. I've been doing this since 1993 I know the health system. I know the doctors, I know, but if you're listening, and you know that feeling when you're drowning and everyone else's needs all of a sudden and you can barely breathe, that's what I became, and that's why I decided now to walk alongside caregivers like your listeners, to discover, like, how do we find relief when we're doing all of the appointments, when we're doing the regular school things, when we're doing all the things, and when you can't actually get away, like I just can't go to Hawaii and sit on the beach. And I want to help people, as well as myself, show up present instead of depleted all the time, even when our caregiving never stops. And so we think as parents, taking care of our kids never stops. Yes, and like you said, Natalie, add this extra layer on top. And how do you do it? And I didn't know how to do it

Natalie: 17:13

when you were at the hospital. And if people are watching video, you're gonna see me. My mic is having issues. So please excuse me on that I'm keep trying. It keeps turning down, which I feel like, JJ, has it and and now, and I'm actually going to pause because we need to take a break. But my mic is fighting me right now, so I apologize for that. If anybody's seeing this happen, because I'm like, oh, it's going down, but I think JJ, secretly has

Unknown: 17:38

it on the lever. Well,

Natalie: 17:40

we'll be right back. JJ, you can bring us back in all right,

Unknown: 17:46

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JJ: 18:21

All right, everybody. We are back, and Jen has said, Wow, this is a time where you're not exactly sure how you're supposed to proceed, because her daughter has been diagnosed with a brain tumor eight years old. Life was swimming along, and now she is full force into care. So that's what I want to talk about. First of all, tell me about what the doctors are telling you at this point. When you've got an eight year old that you're in and she has a brain tumor, tell me about what they're telling you and what you're feeling.

Unknown: 18:52

I went into complete I'm a pretend Doctor mode when we're in the actual diagnosis. Week of the hospital, I was, you know, doing all the things. I was listening to all the doctors who were attending all the rounds. I wasn't really feeling until one day, the care team was in the room, my my family was in the room. I was standing on the end of my daughter's bed, and everything that I had been pushing down in order to understand what was going on started to, like, boil up, and it was about to erupt, and I was about to, like, figuratively, throw up everything that was inside of me in front of my sweet young thing, and then all of A sudden, this calm just filled the room. Came over me, and a voice outside of myself said, Who do you want to be? For her, that was the first big pause.

Natalie: 19:52

Do you? Are you a faithful person? Are you? Are you a believer in God or because that doesn't matter, because for me, I feel like if you're a believer in. God, to me, that's like God and the Holy Spirit just being like, I got you boo, and if you're not, that's okay. I'm just wondering,

Unknown: 20:07

yeah, no, I do believe I have great faith. I'm very spiritual. Also, you know, participated in the Catholic church for a long time, but I also feel this just like one wholeness of universe and humanity. Yep, that I honor, and I do believe that we all have access to some of these. Yes, you know divine moments that we can experience. That's not the first time I've had a divine experience in the hospital.

Natalie: 20:35

Yeah, I will tell you, and for me, and it's really and this is the thing, and it's funny how religion is so like, you always want to be like, I sounded like a tiptoed around it, and that's absolutely because I did, because you never want to offend anyone. And for anyone who's listening, you may say, I don't align with that, and that's okay, because the thing is, is, for me, I think I don't know how people personally don't do it without some level of faith or belief in something, because it this is so beyond our control. All of this is beyond our control. And how do we pull and how do we pull down? How do we maintain hope? That's the thing is, and you're talking about, I believe in divine intervention, and whatever that looks like, that divine intervention looks like for you is how that looks like for you. And

Unknown: 21:27

Natalie, that's one of the pauses you're speaking to, one of the pauses that I share with people, which is, you know, as we're getting to know our caregiving exhaustion and the four different types that I speak about, I talk about the I lost my identity pause, and so that's actually tying into like a spiritual pause, which is what is beyond us, what what is outside of ourselves, that helps support us and bring us hope. What is my mission, vision, goal, what helps me stay connected to my true north as we're going through these tribulations, trials and tribulations, you know?

Natalie: 22:06

So if you want to go over the four, I'm interested now you caught my attention. I'm like, oh, yeah, wait. I don't want to wait till the end on that one you're so is this, is this kind of a self realization moment for you, that aha moment, that where it's like you get this sense of overwhelming, kind of like it's going to be okay. How do you want to approach this? And how you approach this is really going to impact your overall wellness. Is kind of what I truly saying

Unknown: 22:34

totally, but not on a straight line, right? Because life doesn't keep us on a straight line. It throws us for loops, and so I thought I had it. I'm like, Oh yeah, that's right, anytime I stray from showing up in the comfort and love and warmth that I want to be for her when she's in a place of fear and uncertainty and strange pokes by needles, you know, like anytime I start feeling that I move myself into the warmth and love and comfort for her, but also for me. Yeah. So we had a pretty easy, easy go of it after that first diagnosis and a shunt placement for hydrocephalus treatment. And then two years later, the tumor changed. And then so

Natalie: 23:21

was the tumor benign? Was it like so you were able to treat it? Was it, did they know what it was attributed to, or just

Unknown: 23:28

they don't really know, I mean, and when it's when you talk about a tumor in the brain, is it benign? Is it malignant? Yeah, there are those that are malignant glioblastoma. Those that are type fours, those that are aggressive and spread hers is a low grade glioma. And so while it's not, quote, unquote, you know, malignant because of where it is and the precious, you know, land that it will take up in her brain, we do watch and wait. We watch and wait with MRIs, and then when there is a change or she starts to have issues with her memory center, or some of those other things, then we have an intervention that we use, yeah. So it was the intervention after she had had some chemo done and some other infusions that held it at bay for a while. 2020, it changed. It like, change, so so much that we had to have a partial tumor exception resection scheduled for her on New Year's Eve of 2020, and so here I am, immunosuppressed. My daughter's going in for a six plus hour brain tumor surgery. I'm going to live in the hospital with her for the next month, masked, fearful, because there was nothing to protect me is other than a mask and hand washing and having no visitors and all those things. But leading up to that treatment, there were a lot of behavioral and emotional things going on because of how the tumor was affecting her personality, and that's when I hit bottom. Yeah, that's when I didn't know how to support her.

JJ: 25:03

During that time, you say you don't know how to support her. Are you still working first of all, or had you

Unknown: 25:10

so? Great question. Okay, so right about the time when her tumor was changing, and so she was diagnosed in 2015 about 2016 we started seeing some behavioral things show up after her medical trauma, and then I was laid off at Harley. And here's another divine intervention. I already know how it popped in my head. I didn't I hadn't ever had a coaching session with anyone. I was like, oh, maybe I'll try this life coaching thing. So I met with a past co worker who was in the professional development space, and within three months, I was in a training program. It wasn't it was, but it wasn't for my career. It was for me. Self Realization, self awareness, boundary setting, how do I come into myself to help support me? So I was having it all figured out, right? And then the fall before her big, big surgery in 2020 I couldn't eat without getting sick. I had so much anxiety I would be in a fetal position, I dropped down to 100 pounds, like, I can't do this. What is going on? Yeah. And this was after I had all those tools we just talked about,

Natalie: 26:22

oh, yeah, yeah. Because here's the thing. I mean, it's, it's, honestly, I was the same way. I mean, I trained on, you know, how to maintain an equilibrium, how to how to stay in your really, your sweet spot, which is your home, like this is, this is where my center is, and this is where I experience happy and calm and joy and that sort of thing. And I like, when you're in that state of crisis, and it's an ebb and flow that starts to go up and down. You are living in a fight, flight or freeze. And you are it's, it's very hard to pull from, it can be very hard to pull from what, you know, in the prefrontal here in the brain, the front of the brain, of like, I know I should do this, but I'm back here thinking a tiger is chasing me down. You know, Fifth Avenue,

Unknown: 27:08

our amygdala, our prefrontal this guy likes to run the show.

Natalie: 27:13

Yeah, exactly. I love a little and hissy kitty that's from high school and college. So because the amygdala really does run everything. It's it's you can't get to the front of the brain where reasoning and thinking occurs when you are living in a state of crisis, and your brain feels like you are just fighting for your life. And I think that's where I know Jen, that when you talk about the pause, because I talk about take a 92nd pause before you make a decision when you're dealing with a child with behavioral issues, because it allows you just to stop recenter and then be able to get going. But that's we're not talking about that necessarily, but you're, you're saying, I had to take some pauses.

Unknown: 28:00

Yeah, my body was saying, pause right now, or you're not going to make it. But at the same time, people were saying to me, you're so resilient, you're so strong. And I'm like, do not see and maybe I did too good of a job hiding it, right? But, like, I can't. I'm sitting in my car in the driveway after picking up something from the pharmacy. Like, I can't make myself go in my front door. Yeah, but if you're listening right now and you're feeling exhausted like that, like, remember your loved one needs you present, not suffering, and there's a huge difference, and that's where these pause practices can make a difference. When you are in the throes of caregiving and you can't get away because we always say, Oh, I'll take care of myself when this resolves, or I'll take care of myself when things slow down. No, take care of yourself now, because that's going to give you the sustainable energy to fuel your resilience, that resilience that people said I had, that I didn't feel I had. Well now I have it, and these pauses I've discovered helped me find relief in the moment and at the same time, they helped me build my sustainable prosilience. So when people were saying I was resilient, I was like, What are you talking about? I got really curious about it, and started looking up exhaustion, caregiver fatigue, compassion fatigue, all of those things, and I ran across prosilience, proactive resilience, and it's developed by an organizational psychologist for use in organizations. And I was reading this book, I'm like, holy cow, she's been following me since I was 15, and I didn't know this is how I've I've been doing it during the ebbs and flows of life. And so now I know one of the main building blocks of resilience is centered in those pauses. And when we center ourselves in these pauses and practice them regularly, they help us build our resilience, and we can build upon the different tools we have in our toolbox to access. Us our resilience during challenge.

JJ: 30:02

So has this, like, need for information, has it hit you during these six months? Like, are you using these tools, or does this hit after the six months that you're living in the hospital, which it sounds like also overlaps the covid? Oh

Unknown: 30:16

my gosh, it was Yeah, and thankfully, it was only a month. But like, okay, my my struggle with being present and not suffering started, like six months before, you know, everything hit with covid. I'm sorry, yeah, like a little before and then after. And I was doing the pauses innately, but I didn't know what I was doing. So when people would ask me, like, how are you doing this? I'd be like, I don't know. Just, I just do it

Natalie: 30:48

over here, magic. It's just over here, being unicorn.

Unknown: 30:52

Like,

JJ: 30:53

I'm kind of curious about, you know, because I think about this with my mom. I'm there, and I know Natalie probably thinks about this with Jason, we're there. Tell me about what you feel the difference is with being there with your daughter versus being present with your daughter. Define, for me, kind of what the difference is. If you could tell the caregiver, you can be there, or you could be present. Tell me about that,

Unknown: 31:16

sure. So I like to share be where your feet are so like you're there, you're sitting next to their hospital bed as they're coming out of surgery or whatever, and you're holding their hand, but your mind is spinning in the fear and the what ifs and the what I should have dones and all of those things. Being present means having your feet on the ground, holding their hand, and knowing that you're there in love and you are right there in the moment. And this doesn't mean, like, if you're feeling fear, to push it aside or away, but it's acknowledging it and not letting it spiral past the point of it, being able to help you. So like, maybe there's a fear like, oh, there's this is happening, and I'm not sure what that machine's saying. So then you pause and you ask the nurse, so you don't be like, Oh my gosh, that beeping means that they're going into an AFib or that, you know, no, like, be present. Calm yourself is the first building block of resilience. Calm yourself. How do you do that? Well, there are several different ways we can do that, and then this idea of the four pauses we can take as exhausted caregivers in place. There's the physical pause, the mental pause, the emotional pause and the spiritual pause. And these are all learning to manage your energy because human resilience is fueled by energy. So when we can manage our energy and find where the leaks are and plug them and then fill ourselves up, we're able to fill our resilience, you know, fuel our resilience and decide what strategy to use to meet the challenge, decide which resilience muscle which we have seven of which resilience muscle to engage in order to move through the challenge. What I have learned in my work with caregivers, being a caregiver, being a patient, is that when we focus first on fueling ourselves through managing our personal energy, we have the sustainable strength to make it through difficult times. I'm

Natalie: 33:22

going to take a pause right there, because I want to come back to that. And I love how we've gone completely traditionally, off script of how we do things. Does it really matter? Because it's our podcast, and that makes it exceptionally

JJ: 33:36

fun. Yeah, I'm getting my help right up front.

Natalie: 33:39

The Brazilians is so interesting in what you're talking about. And I want to go a little bit deeper into those four areas, because I think these are things that you've applied to both working and supporting your daughter, probably also supporting your marriage and making sure that you're not currently divorced because of the stress that comes with this, and then also transitioning into a new type of caregiving, and caregiving for your parents, because I know that we talked about going in there, so I'm going to take a break, and we'll be right back.

Unknown: 34:10

Care forward is a technology platform that connects volunteers with seniors, the disabled and those with chronic or complex health conditions, offering support like transportation, home visits and more details online@careforward.io

JJ: 34:25

Hey everybody, we are back here with Jen Fredericks. I love when we get to come back from a break, because I get to ask the first question.

Natalie: 34:32

AJ never gets to talk. I

JJ: 34:33

know so I do. Ned had mentioned I do want to talk about you using these tools, because when this is about you. I also want to talk about all the things that are part of your life. First, I want to ask about your health and how you're taking care of you during this time. And then I know now we probably want to jump into how you're using these tools to take care of your marriage, because that's incredibly important. So tell me about you this health. There of you first.

Unknown: 35:01

I'm great. I'm great. I actually just saw my transplant nephrologist for my follow up a couple months ago, and all my numbers are good, and I'm just kind of rolling along. I probably should be taking better care of my physical self, meaning, like, okay, let's strengthen some muscles. You know, I'm 48 so, like, let's strengthen some muscles. Let's, you know, get some cardiac health going for you, you know, get some So, but no, it's great. And what I know for me and you guys and your listeners will figure this out for themselves, which of those four energies you really focus on that help fuel you the most, and for me, that's taking care of my spiritual and emotional energy, and then allows me to know when I need to do more with my physical

Natalie: 35:49

so let me ask you, but you said before the break, because right now, you're good, yeah, but a couple of years ago, you were, you know, you were a hot mess, calm, and they could Read your photo like, how not to survive caregiving. And Jen Fredericks is all like, over there waving in the picture, you said you'd gotten down to 100 pounds, which I'm sure your brother in law was like, lady, yeah, take his kidneys. Not gonna like this.

Unknown: 36:17

Well, here's my confession. Are you ready? I'm ready. Ready. I went from literally punching walls in pure frustration to being able to find those pockets of peace and and chaos like there are still marks on our walls. My office is upstairs, marks on our walls downstairs where I kicked or hit walls. So

Natalie: 36:37

what got you like, kind of, let's walk through that, because here's the thing, this is the and then I appreciate you saying, Here's my confession, because this is true. There have been so many times that I just want to scream and I'd want to hit something, because here's the thing, it's better to hit a wall. It's what I always tell my kids that I work with. I'm like, better hit a wall than it is to hit another person. So let's start there. So that's the first step, and then let's work on not hitting walls, because then you're going to hurt yourself, and it's really not the way to get rid of that energy is, because I look at that as this is energy that you're holding on the inside, that is, is it coming out in a very negative way that does not serve you exactly?

Unknown: 37:15

Yeah, that's exactly what it was. It was me trying to hold it all together and not acknowledging that I was having those human feelings about this really difficult situation, and trying to push through it, rather than honoring where I was in the moment and saying, like, I need to go scream into a pillow. I need to go get some fresh air. Yeah? So, I mean, that's a pause screaming into a pillow. That's a pause that can help your physical, mental, emotional and spiritual energy, right there. But I wasn't doing that. I was letting it build, build, build, build, build, pressing it down, pushing it down, you know, pressure cooker until it would come out in a me punching a wall and scaring the vegetas out of my nine year old daughter because she's not seen Mom act like that before.

Natalie: 38:06

Yeah. How is this affecting the same time where you're not eating, because you're getting sick every time you eat, you've got this anxiety that is like, really exactly what you said, a pressure cooker that is just waiting to explode. How is that affecting your marriage? What's your husband saying to you, like, lady, if you've lost it, or do you need to go get therapy, or what's going on there?

Unknown: 38:29

I think he was terrified, but it's taken us some time. We've always been really great communicators, but it's taken us some time to be able to communicate in a moment like that. We both like to avoid confrontation, so we just kind of wouldn't

Natalie: 38:47

talk about it clean, ignoring

Unknown: 38:50

what I found that's worked for us then over the years is setting boundaries with each other, being like, I can't talk about this right now. I want to let you in, but I need 10 minutes, and then coming. So there's a pause, physical pause, removing myself from the, you know, letting the heated discussion we've never really fought, but letting the heated discussion simmer down a little bit before we actually come back and talk. We're very like minded, so that really helps our marriage, meaning that one, we don't like confrontation, but two, we've grown together to learn how we can confront each other in a loving way, without accusing or pointing fingers or it's like we're able to I always say this with my clients, I'm holding my hands up together, like, how can We hold that both in the palm of our hands, so that we can acknowledge and honor it and yet move forward together with it?

Natalie: 39:48

You know, I think this is probably one of the most detailed, honest conversations about the impact on marriage that we've had, in a very specific way, not to any of our other guests that they're. Hold anything back. Yeah, but this is, this is a vulnerable moment where you talk about as two individuals who are trying to care for a child, and the overwhelmingness of the situation and the lack of control that you really don't have, which is the hardest part, I think, of caregiving, especially for someone who wants just to make things right, and how you guys are really able to do that? Did you do any kind of marriage counseling? Did the did the hospital recommend any kind of peer support groups or counseling for you as parents who are going through this super traumatic event, I see you shaking your head, no, no.

Unknown: 40:37

I mean, it's about survival when you're in the hospital, right? And then you get discharged. And then, and I remember my mom saying this when I'd be discharged from my kidney transplants, you're kind of like, how am I supposed to live out in the real world with all this? She used to go to the grocery store and become paralyzed and not know what to do, and so she would just leave. I, you know, I would do the same thing, like my daughter just had a little brain surgery yesterday. I'm taking her home tomorrow. Are you freaking kidding me? What am I supposed to do?

Natalie: 41:13

I can't even imagine how scary that would be. I mean, it's one thing for you to put a band aid on some stuff. Another thing for you to have, what I would like to call even that's closed it's an open wound. People

Unknown: 41:25

very open wound. They work. I

Natalie: 41:29

have, I am not remotely qualified for this crap. She

JJ: 41:32

just said that little brain surgery. And I just am like, huh,

Unknown: 41:38

yeah, she'd have, like, you know, she might need to have her, her shunt, revised. And so that's like a, that's like a quick in one day out the next. She just had that done in February, again, yeah, we were in overnight, and then we bring her home. And you know, it's that's when I pull on my confidence, resilience muscle that we talk about in resilience, because, like, I know what I've been through. She's had these little brain surgeries a couple times now, so I can find trust in myself and my husband's knowledge. And thankfully, we live eight minutes from the medical center, yeah, but that's when you really got to lean into that, and that's where the next question comes up. The question from the first time she was admitted, who do you want to be for her? Do you want her coming home scared because mom and dad are like, I don't know what to do. No, like, you want her to be able to feel calm and loved and comforted because she's just had this surgery where she's been under general anesthesia and she's had to sleep overnight in the hospital with all the beeping, and all she wants to be is home, but she doesn't want to be in a home where everyone else is scared, and it's like we talked about before, when we're feeling exhausted and we're suffering, that's when we need To take that pause so that we can be present for our loved one and be there in a way that helps their healing doesn't add to their the illness and the concern and all the fear they're feeling. How old is your daughter now? She's 16 now,

JJ: 43:15

oh my god, I'm curious about relationship with her, at what you see, what you anticipated a relationship to be like, Oh, I'm gonna have this daughter. She's gonna wear bows the rest of her life. Or

Unknown: 43:30

how you she just dyed her hair blue. So, you know, there's no blue or

JJ: 43:36

bows right now, but fantastic or, or where it is now, like how it impacts you, what you thought this dream was gonna be, and also how it impacts her,

Unknown: 43:45

right? I mean, well, let's be serious. Any parent, what you think it's gonna be is not what it ends up. I had lovely, lovely guidance from my sister, who has two boys in her in their 20s now, who said, you know, everyone paints it to be unicorns and roses and rainbows, and it's not, and it's okay, yeah, so I thank her for that. So this is I believe that's a divine that God knew that Layla soul and my soul and my husband's soul needed to be together, but couldn't find a way to get it to us that way, because I couldn't naturally carry children. And so there's a psalm, and it used to be hanging in her room when she was younger. And I don't remember exactly what it is, but the one like I knew your story before, oh yes, you were born, yes. And so we lean into that. We say we always connected really well. Like, we never had a hard time bonding or attachment wise. And then when all of this came up for her, we were like, Wow, isn't it crazy? And an outsider to say, Isn't it crazy that you've had all of this experience? And like, I can fall asleep in the house. Hospital room at the drop of a hat. Like, I am so comfortable in the hospital. Like, isn't it crazy that you can be there that way for her? Like, it was meant not that I want her to have this or I want her to suffer, but like, if she does, isn't it a wonderful thing that she has me and then my husband, who was with me for my transplant the second one, as well as kind of shepherds for her during the time.

Natalie: 45:26

You know it's, it's true, and children look up to their parents for guidance and support. And when the adults are not okay, the children are not okay. And, and that's just through and, and I know we're getting close to our time actually, and so I want to make sure we have time for Sister questions too. But I think it's very clear that you're like, This has been messy. People so messy learned. I've learned a lot from it, and I love you know, you've got some things in here that you talk about, as far as like, you know your loved one needs you present, not suffering. I love how you said that. You mentioned that earlier, relief begins with the pause, not the kind where you escape, but present pauses you can take when holding someone hand in the hospital like you. It's almost like CO occurring. It's you can you can support someone concurrently, support yourself through interventions, and sometimes the strategies are things that the person you're caring for never even sees you do

Unknown: 46:28

that. Yeah, that that three minutes that you take to do some box breathing while they're talking to the doctor, right? And and here's the other thing, if you're not sure if you're listening and you're not sure what type of exhaustion is really draining you. That's why I came up with a short quiz so that you can figure out if you know, if you're the physically wiped out caregiver, the mentally maxed out caregiver, the emotionally overwhelmed caregiver, or the I've lost myself caregiver, and then once you figure that out, like, there's a guide, there's like, 12 plus strategies in there to help you take pauses. Yeah, they're

Natalie: 47:09

going to be in the show notes people. So I'm going to tell you right now, we are totally I'm taking the quiz.

JJ: 47:15

I will tell you, you know, if I have any questions, I mean, everybody can call me, I'll have the address, like, all starred and favorited on my computer.

Unknown: 47:22

And then from there, I really want people to know that I created something that I wished when I had, when I was in the hospital, that I could go to 24/7 and hear about these pauses, hear about what other people are going through, see where people need to share and be supported and also hear from, you know, experts. And so I've created carewell Circle, which is a video centric online community, because caregivers need to see human faces,

Natalie: 47:54

yes, eyes and teeth, people, eyes and teeth. And if

Unknown: 47:57

you can't be across from someone having coffee like the next best thing is the screen. And I think some of that came out of covid, you know, thankfully, but yeah, but yes, find out where you are being drained, because when we know that, then we can help you plug the leak, and you can apply these pauses wherever you are. And then you can start to find relief in the moment, as well as start to build your sustainable resilience.

Natalie: 48:25

Oh, I'm loving this. All right, Jay, so I'm going to tell you I have all the helpful links. I have it in my it'll be in our show notes, without question, all the links to Jen and all this greatness. Because I'm going to tell you right now, this is, this is good stuff, and I actually can't wait to take the crit. So excited. She's going to take the quiz. We'll probably take the quiz together. And then be like, what's your what's your dumpster fire look like right now? And JJ will be like, Well, I am on zero. I'm on empty in this area, in this area. And I'm like, Oh, good. I'm on empty in this area. And so then look at it and think, what are the things that we could practice to impact us and understanding? And I'd say, Jen, you're probably the same well, you would say the same thing. You can be drained in any particular area, and it will vary from day to day. I think that's really important for people to understand. It's is that this goes back to sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system. I'm going to talk about. I'm like, Oh, I love all this stuff. I'm like, You had me at parasympathetic and sympathetic, but it really what that is, is fight, flight or freeze. Where are you at? And I think I've done a there is a chart that I did with dr, dr Laurie de saut, who really, you can track this throughout the day, and so those pauses allow you to say, What am I feeling, and where am I feeling it, and what do I need to recharge? Those are things that I would encourage you to do. Is to you could also track this and do this. Think about how you feel in the morning. Think about mid at mid morning, lunch, mid afternoon, dinner, and. And bedtime, and you'll see how your emotions fluctuate and how you're fluctuating. And then you can apply specific strategies to that I don't want

Unknown: 50:09

to. And then even see, like, where your emotions are at, and be like, Oh, wow, that emotion really affected me physically here. That's right, right? Because they're all interconnected.

Natalie: 50:19

Oh, yeah. And what's the body telling you? Okay. JJ, okay. Ben and I are gonna stop talking about the mental health. He's my

JJ: 50:26

BFF, back off. He's my BFF,

Unknown: 50:29

back off. Now, ladies, we

JJ: 50:30

can all okay, sorry, we, we, we're gonna have to take a pause. Okay. So question, so four areas that you talked about, where do you find yourself? Which area do you see yourself drained in the most? And what is your? What is Your? Your go to, go to, yeah,

Unknown: 50:48

it helps you. I would say, also, I pick up on other people's energies a lot, and so emotional is the one that really gets me the most. And so I would say, I'm the, you know, emotionally overwhelmed caregiver, and so that's when I take a pause, put a hand on my chest, my heart, and I say, you know, I do. I don't have to carry everyone else's emotions and ask the question, Is this mine, or is this someone else's?

Natalie: 51:17

Oh, I love you. I love it. I love the question itself, is this mine or is this someone else's? And that goes back to what we were talking about with Mel Robbins, about just

JJ: 51:31

Medicaid them,

Unknown: 51:34

and then this is theirs. I cannot fix that for them. I can show up in calm presence, once I know where I'm at and they're responsible for for how they show up.

Natalie: 51:49

Oh. Mel Robbins, you can have us all on your show. We love your books. I also count 12345, actually, it's 54321, yep. Actually, 54321, that we love you, we we honestly love you and but Okay, and here's my question, because I know I have to wrap it up, because we could keep

Unknown: 52:07

talking forever.

Natalie: 52:10

What is the thing this is? This is not this doesn't even feel like guilty pleasure. But what is your favorite guilty pleasure at this point? What is the thing that you do just for yourself, that you that really helps you to reconnect, that you enjoy, that you're like, I'm just doing this for me.

Unknown: 52:25

Yeah, okay, I'll go to Tarjay

Natalie: 52:32

universal Tarjay,

Unknown: 52:35

and I'll get a frozen Coca Cola and a bag of Cool Ranch Doritos. Car in the parking lot. And I did this too when covid, I had to do grocery pickups because I was masking and everything. And I don't want to, yeah, I do grocery pickups, but then I'd like just run into the caf, the cafe part, and I get those two things for myself, and I go back and I sit there and eat it in the car before I went home. And I still,

Natalie: 52:59

I'm going to tell you she is literally a sister, because, I mean, this is, that's the kind of things. We're foodies and, oh yeah,

Unknown: 53:08

and Doritos.

Natalie: 53:11

Like, that's our go to when we feel stressed. Like, honestly, here lately in stress, M M's, like, M M's, and coke and

Unknown: 53:20

Doritos, regular, regular,

Natalie: 53:22

or peanut regular. I actually go just regular. And I normally don't eat milk chocolate. I normally try to eat dark chocolate. So in my mind, it's healthier, right? Whatever it is, but, but m, M's are it can go, it can swing ugly, real fast, and so downhill. It's one handful and then 10 handfuls later, I'm like, I don't think that's healthy. Well, here

Unknown: 53:45

I'll help you pause a little bit with that. How I eat Skittles? You can eat M M's this way too, blue ones at a time, two brown ones at a time. So just like, match up the colors, and it'll help slow down the consumption. But you can still like, oh, that needs excessive. And I like that. I'm like color coordination as well.

JJ: 54:09

Jen, thank you so much. I have learned so much. I'm going to take that test.

Natalie: 54:15

I'll close this out and again, Thanks Jen, for loving on us. We will make sure to have all these things, the quiz about what's draining you now, and caregiver relief guide, and all the information for Jen, you're going to want to connect with her on all social media platforms, because she is just nuggets of wisdom. And here's the thing, if you're unsure, just pause. That's my answer. If you're unsure, just take a pause. And so Jay, will you close this out

JJ: 54:41

Absolutely, guys, until we confess again, we will see you next time. Bye, bye.

Natalie: 54:51

Well, friends, that's a wrap on this week's confession again. Thank you so much for listening. But before you go, please take a moment to leave us a. You and tell your friends about the confessions podcast. Don't forget to visit our website to sign up for our newsletter. You'll also find the video recording of all of our episodes on the confessions website and our YouTube channel. Don't worry, all the details are included in the show notes below. We'll see you next Tuesday when we come together to confess again, Till then, take care of you. Okay, let's talk disclaimers. You may be surprised to find out, but we are not medical professionals and are not providing any medical advice. If you have any medical questions, we recommend that you talk with a medical professional of your choice, as always, my sisters and I, at Confessions of a reluctant caregiver, have taken care in selecting speakers, but the opinions of our speakers are theirs alone. The views and opinions stated in this podcast are solely those of the contributors and not necessarily those of our distributors or hosting company. This podcast is copyrighted and no part can be reproduced without the expressed written consent of the sisterhood of care LLC. Thank you for listening to the confessions of our reluctant caregiver podcast.