Episode 7.3: The Life-Changing Healing Modality You’ve Never Heard of, Postural Restoration, with Neal Hallinan

Chloé sits down with PRI Practitioner Neal Hallinan to talk about what Postural Restoration is, and how the process of fully coming into your body actually works.

Topics include how trauma shows up in the body, what pain really is, and how important community is for individual embodiment. 

Neal shares the unique technique he discovered for clearing the body of traumatic holding patterns, once and for all. You may be able to see your therapist less after this episode….that’s how epic this technique is.

If you’d like to schedule a session either Neal, you can reach him at www.pritrainer.com, and his YouTube channel is  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOxBRPqI9A1kT9xZFWQfz1w

Transcript

00:00:00:15 - 00:00:25:04
Speaker 1
Welcome back to the B.E.A.M.&Flow podcast. This is a nitty gritty exploration of your body, energy, awareness, movement and flow. I'm your host, Chloé Cofresí. I'm a proudly Latina curandera, or a healer and a coach guiding spirit-led rebels to their richest lives. Your richest life includes community, a deep group of fellow seekers to hold you accountable,

00:00:25:06 - 00:00:56:10
Speaker 1
help you heal, encourage you and celebrate with you. This season we are exploring the different ways community supports our most lit up lives. Ready to connect. Lista. Let's go. So, Neal, I think a lot of people are going to be, a lot of my listeners are going to be excited to see you, because I have been talking a lot within my my close circle about the work that we've been doing.

00:00:56:12 - 00:01:19:27
Speaker 1
so when I say, oh, yeah, I'm, I'm going to my PRI practitioner immediately, they're like, what? What is what is PRI. Is that like another type of chiropractor because they know I go to a specific type of chiropractor too. And I say no. Although the two actually do work very well together for the last office. So what is PRI for people who have never heard of it?

00:01:19:29 - 00:01:44:00
Speaker 2
So that's a that's a that can be a very complicated subject. However, the basic underlying premise is that humans are not symmetrical and it's a huge deal. The right side of your body, the left side of the body, are not the same. Just like the left hemisphere of the brain and the right hemisphere of the brain are not the same.

00:01:44:03 - 00:02:02:25
Speaker 2
And there's what you call lateralization that goes on in terms of one side of the body or brain specializes slightly in certain things, while the left side may specialize in something else. the most obvious is that the language centers of our brain are over on the left side, which have a strong link to our right arm. It's in our right hand.

00:02:02:25 - 00:02:25:22
Speaker 2
It's in the research. Look it up. It's all there. So. But that just means that humans generally are right dominant because of not generally they will be even if they're left handed because of the bigger right diaphragm and the left hemisphere of the brain. That's more postural minded. While the right side of the brain is more globally movement organized.

00:02:25:25 - 00:02:56:14
Speaker 2
So postural restoration is about really restoring balance that will never truly be balanced completely. But when someone's normal asymmetry gets out of hand, it now becomes abnormal asymmetry. So the goal is not to get someone symmetrical. The goal is to help people relieve pain that has occurred when there's no injury, there's no illness, no sickness. I even had someone with a tumor.

00:02:56:16 - 00:03:13:24
Speaker 2
Didn't know right? Hip pain. Turned out she so that PR. I would not have worked for that individual. She had a tumor in her right hip and I knew she was walking funny. At any rate, not to get sidetracked, but. So that's what I mean. Idiopathic pain for cancer. You go to the doctor, they say not everything looks fine.

00:03:13:26 - 00:03:47:10
Speaker 2
that's what we're treating. And that type of pain occurs when our normal right dominance becomes abnormal. Right? Dominance. And it it limits your ability to move forward and breathe without compensation. So we're trying to backtrack those compensations and get your body and brain back to its normal range of asymmetry rather than the abnormal asymmetry. But the important point is you're never going to be symmetrical, so don't even bother.

00:03:47:12 - 00:03:52:07
Speaker 2
That's that's not the point of it.

00:03:52:09 - 00:04:24:02
Speaker 1
I, I love I'm never I'm never going to be even I'm not and that's I, I really appreciate that. and I, I came to you because I had heard about Peri from another podcast. and I was like, okay, I'm going to look up a pure AI practitioner because I have been so I, I had been at that point experiencing extreme pain and what started in my right knee.

00:04:24:04 - 00:04:50:21
Speaker 1
Yeah. And then had gone into my sciatic area, on the right hand side and then all the way down into my foot. And my foot was I had pins and needles. I couldn't stand on my foot without getting pins and needles. And I am on my feet all day when I'm seeing clients. and and I knew that there was a lot energetically happening in my body at that time.

00:04:50:21 - 00:05:15:18
Speaker 1
There was a lot of psychological, emotional stuff unwinding. so it made sense to me that it was presenting in my body. I have a background in bio energetic therapy, so everything that was happening made sense, and I knew that it might take a while to get to the root of it, but I had tried everything I had tried.

00:05:15:18 - 00:05:24:01
Speaker 1
Acupuncture is I had gone to my chiropractor who does bio geometric integration. So even they're very specific in the work that they do.

00:05:24:04 - 00:05:24:23
Speaker 2


00:05:24:23 - 00:05:59:15
Speaker 1
Everything nothing was helping. And I heard about I on this podcast and I said, let me look up and see. And there's a few different practitioners in New York and only one in new Jersey. And so, I was like, well, that makes it easy because I just don't feel like dealing with the city. But what actually won me over was when I looked you up, I don't know if it was on your website or if I saw it somewhere else, but there's a quote from the the founder of Peri saying that you are the best practitioner that he's ever seen.

00:05:59:18 - 00:06:34:02
Speaker 1
I was like, wow, that's a hell of a review. I think if I'm going to go to anybody, I gotta go to that guy. So we've been working together now for maybe six months. about that and my pain is completely gone. I have no more, pins and needles in my foot. I when I do the exercises, there have been times when I've let some of them go prior to knowing that I wasn't supposed to let those go yet.

00:06:34:04 - 00:06:36:06
Speaker 1
Oh, sure enough, the pain came back.

00:06:36:09 - 00:06:37:07
Speaker 2
Yeah, and.

00:06:37:07 - 00:06:45:28
Speaker 1
I checked in with you and you're like, yeah, still, we still got work to do. So I went back to those exercises and immediately the pain went away again.

00:06:46:00 - 00:06:47:01
Speaker 2
Right, right right right.

00:06:47:01 - 00:07:05:08
Speaker 1
So what's what's happening in someone like me who is like getting results through February and then and then maybe thinks that they're okay and stops and the pain comes back. Is this something that we have to do for the rest of our lives? How does it how does it change over time?

00:07:05:10 - 00:07:16:29
Speaker 2
Okay, so from miraculous. So when we say six months, we have to put in the perspective of the first time I saw you was about six months ago. But I think we've only done four sessions.

00:07:16:29 - 00:07:18:03
Speaker 1
Yeah, that sounds about right.

00:07:18:10 - 00:07:43:02
Speaker 2
Yeah. Okay. So it's not something that it's not one of those things where someone comes in every week for six months. It's not what it is. And in fact, like my email response to most people when they email me, I always say it's going to generally take between 3 and 6 sessions. And if it's going to be more than that, it's usually because they have something going on in their cranium with their visual system or their draw on their teeth.

00:07:43:05 - 00:08:09:13
Speaker 2
That's going to prevent a I don't want to say I don't want to say a fast resolution, but a typical resolution. Okay. So so in that regards, what we had done together is that the first thing you came in, the first time you came in to see me to explain your situation? The way I saw it was that one of the first things I noticed was you're very, very prominent, right?

00:08:09:13 - 00:08:12:10
Speaker 1
Sternocleidomastoid muscle right here, folks.

00:08:12:12 - 00:08:22:08
Speaker 2
Now to me, anytime use. And it was like a guitar string. Like a bass guitar string. Not even like not even an acoustic guitar. It was a it's it was very prominent. This is.

00:08:22:08 - 00:08:24:06
Speaker 1
Much better. So it was not like this.

00:08:24:06 - 00:08:25:29
Speaker 2
Oh, but you know, I think the volumes are. Yeah.

00:08:25:29 - 00:08:35:04
Speaker 1
Sorry, I, I was I mean I was saying it was, it was much, this is much better. It was a lot tighter than this. But you could still even see it. But yeah, it was, it was way worse.

00:08:35:04 - 00:09:04:25
Speaker 2
It was. Yeah. It was very, very prominent. So the moment I now again this is the way I see things. So. Right, the moment I see a very prominent. Right. So I'm, I'm already thinking this person has no ability to get off of their right side, right. They cannot get to their left side. If they had a left side that was supporting them, that right neck would have no reason to be in that state.

00:09:04:27 - 00:09:23:25
Speaker 2
So that right neck does two main things, both problematic. Well, in one way it's good because it helps you breathe, because you when you shift over to the right and you get stuck on that right side, you're going to lose your left diaphragm remembers two different muscles. So the left diaphragm kind of gets thrown out the window. But you have to keep breathing.

00:09:24:01 - 00:09:40:19
Speaker 2
And the only way you're really going to do it is by becoming a neck breather. So you become an obligatory neck breather. Now that's good because it helps you breathe. But the problem is it keeps you. Then it holds you hostage over on that right side. So that's what I saw when I, when you first came in, besides the fact that you were completely limping and you were obviously in pain.

00:09:40:22 - 00:10:05:23
Speaker 2
So from my recollection, the first session was more like trying. It was it was what I was trying to do was change our testing. First we had to get you what we call neutral, just meaning we had to get your pelvis, so your pelvis would have been if I'm matching your orientation, your pelvis was forward on the left, which oriented your pelvis overall to the right, which would make your right side more weight bearing.

00:10:05:25 - 00:10:28:08
Speaker 2
All right. So I had to get your pelvis back into a straight position. I had to get your ribcage out of an extended position and get it to come back down, because that's the important thing. If your back is arched, which most people are going to be one, at least to some degree, it's not going to be arched equally, you're going to arch and go to your right because again, because of the bigger right diaphragm.

00:10:28:10 - 00:10:51:07
Speaker 2
So I had to recenter you essentially, which just then means you can now pass or test. But we couldn't get that done through normal means. I did notice that your bite was just slightly to the right of midline. And I think and I remember you also had a little excessive right tooth contact, which I know is inappropriate.

00:10:51:09 - 00:11:02:06
Speaker 2
You also had the prominent right ECM. You had a bit of a prescription visually, that I was a little bit unsure of, and I still I actually I think we made headway on that recently. These are the.

00:11:02:06 - 00:11:04:18
Speaker 1
New glasses are they are okay okay okay.

00:11:04:21 - 00:11:26:02
Speaker 2
And just so anyone knows, I am not practicing optometry. All we do sometimes is manipulate a prescription just to see how it changes tests. And if I then have to say, oh wow, you know, much bigger change or a beneficial change occurred when we maybe lowered the prescription by 0.25 what I was going to be. Then I refer out to an optometrist.

00:11:26:04 - 00:11:47:15
Speaker 2
So just I just want to make that clear. I'm not practicing uptown. It's it's simply for, diagnostic. Figure out what's going on with this brain in this body. So we got to get you back to neutral. But the thing that was struggling was you couldn't do anything. You couldn't. What you couldn't stop doing was using your right foot and your right lower leg.

00:11:47:17 - 00:12:07:09
Speaker 2
So I was trying to get your right foot to learn how to pronate get the arch to come down. But in reality, it's really more about getting the ground to be sensed underneath the right foot so that you could then shift over back to the middle. And that wasn't happening. So all my normal interventions, we even manipulated your bite.

00:12:07:09 - 00:12:36:20
Speaker 2
Probably tongue depressors. Nothing was really changing the situation, and every time you tried to do an actual PRI technique, you were still feeling, your right lower leg and your right calf, your right foot, your ankle. Right. So the normal things that I use on a regular basis were not working with you. And I think we finally, finally found one technique that gave a little bit of relief because I think it maybe allowed you to feel your left inner thigh a little bit more, and maybe your left hamstring, which is all good.

00:12:36:22 - 00:12:59:22
Speaker 2
But then we realized that you were probably going to be needing orthotics, and because you also had a history of ankle sprains, and anyone who has a long history of ankle sprains, that's going to influence the right neck. And that's another thing that it was just it just the pieces of the puzzle were just fitting together perfectly. So we eventually got you those orthotics and that really made a huge difference.

00:12:59:24 - 00:13:23:11
Speaker 2
It allowed your it wasn't to support the foot. That's what people have to realize. Had nothing to do with that. What it had to do was with re grounding the system once you've had ankle sprains multiple times and this is in the literature, I even have a, literature. I a study that links chronic ankle instability with loss of the left diaphragm.

00:13:23:11 - 00:13:46:03
Speaker 2
Only it's in the research. I actually reviewed it for my application for the past restorations too. So it's there. They just don't know what they're looking at. But they they saw it anyway. So we were able to restore a sense of grounding so that your brain could it wasn't a muscle, it was your brain that was fearful of going to the left side because your left side was non-existent at that point.

00:13:46:06 - 00:14:09:28
Speaker 2
So the right foot, getting your brain to sense the ground come up underneath the arch of the right foot allowed you to relax. Maybe not even you consciously, but your brain stem. It finally got vestibular system signals coming up again from the ground, and it was able to penetrate that barrier of tension, which it wasn't allowing before, because your brain was saying, nope, not going to do it.

00:14:09:28 - 00:14:28:21
Speaker 2
Too much threat? Nope. Not too much threat. And then we finally just gave your brain a sense of, safety. That was it. Safe spaces are real. You know, it's. You have to. You have to sense safety. That's what your brain had to do. So in regards to the actual question. So I know that's kind of a long way to do it.

00:14:28:24 - 00:14:47:12
Speaker 2
but that has since has to come first. And then we build off that sense. So we had to work hard to get your brain sensing safety first before it would let go, which would then lead you. Once it lets go, then you can actually start to access the muscles we need to actually re-experience, because it's really a re embodiment process.

00:14:47:14 - 00:15:04:20
Speaker 2
It's not about strength, I can tell you that. But then what we were able to do is start to use the muscles that stabilize the pelvis on the left, which would be the left hamstring, the left adductor, the left glute medius, the left abdominals. And then we were able to add the right glute into it at some point.

00:15:04:22 - 00:15:27:25
Speaker 2
And now you have a pelvis that from your orientation could shift to the left, could get your body over to the left, stabilize on the left and hold the left ilium in and the right ilium out, which is the exact opposite of how were living. And take a breath with your left diaphragm. That's it. So that's all. That's all PRI is really trying to get you to do.

00:15:27:25 - 00:15:51:18
Speaker 2
And then. Then we progressed into upright positions. I'm not sure if we even did that yet. But anyway, yeah, I don't think we did at any rate. so it's once the objective is to get same muscles, but then get you into progressively more difficult positions. because life has lived standing up. So we haven't gotten that far yet.

00:15:51:20 - 00:16:13:16
Speaker 2
But compared to where you were to where you are now, it's night and day difference. And we all still only we never really got past, sideline positions and side. We start down low, took to take gravity away because if you're upright without hands on something, your brain is going to prioritize not falling down because gravity is going to try to make you fall.

00:16:13:19 - 00:16:33:04
Speaker 2
And so we have to start people on the ground where take gravity out of the equation as much as possible, so that you can relearn to feel those muscles that we had lost. Learn how to shift over to the left. Learn how to breathe with the left diaphragm. Learn how to expand the ribcage with with air. so theoretically, does someone need to do this their whole life?

00:16:33:06 - 00:16:56:10
Speaker 2
No. But you also have to realize there is a process to it which haven't really been completed. But if you're feeling good, you're feeling good. So I'm not one of those feel like I have to do this. You have to do this. What? Your brain might have figured it out and that's fine. So but once you realize, though, the goal is to be able to stand upright and be on your left leg, that's all it is.

00:16:56:10 - 00:17:19:15
Speaker 2
And people can't do it. So once you have decent stability, which I think you do at this point, dancing could do that for you. Being online at Wawa, just stand on your left leg, bend your left knee a little bit and feel heavy on your left side. Take a few breaths. That becomes a AI technique. It just means you have to use your left side more so once, so you don't have to constantly do pre for the rest of your life.

00:17:19:18 - 00:17:41:18
Speaker 2
Once your brain is satisfied that you have enough stability, then you just have to be active and you can't. The problem will be I'm not for you mostly, but for people who sit all day and stare at computers all day. They're so inactive that they lose their left side because they're so inactive. And the more you're stationary you are, the more you're going to go to your right side and that becomes problematic.

00:17:41:21 - 00:17:55:06
Speaker 2
that's just how it goes. So if someone can be moving more, they'll probably be fine walking. We'll use your left side, but the more stationary you are, that's where the problems really start to, to come in.

00:17:55:08 - 00:18:07:17
Speaker 1
And you generally see like, well, let me ask you this. Have you ever seen the opposite in someone where they're it's they're, they're they don't know how to be in their right.

00:18:07:20 - 00:18:13:29
Speaker 2
Oh well yeah. They don't know how to be on the right. But I can guarantee you they don't know how to be on their left either.

00:18:14:01 - 00:18:15:25
Speaker 1
So they just don't know how to be.

00:18:15:27 - 00:18:35:04
Speaker 2
That's you know. Yeah. They're stuck in the middle. They don't have a side. That was me by the way. So I don't have a right side or a left side. So when I, when I test somebody and it, and it shows that their pelvis is forward on both sides, which it can be. So people would think of that as an anterior pelvic tilt if you want to.

00:18:35:04 - 00:18:49:08
Speaker 2
But I'm going to show you other tilts in your body. You probably have a shoulder tilt and a head tilt, maybe a a bike tilt. It's called a can't in dentistry. Maybe one eyes higher than the other, one foots can be more supine and one foots can be more pronated. So you can pick out a lot of tilts.

00:18:49:08 - 00:19:16:24
Speaker 2
It's just that traditional physical therapy tends to look at pelvic tilts, but you'll find tilts all over the body because it's a completely it's a total system issue. It's not just the pelvis. So yeah, you will find people who are forward on both sides, meaning they don't have a right side either to go to, but still the left side will still be more forward than the right side because you're not symmetrical.

00:19:16:27 - 00:19:49:04
Speaker 1
So, one of the things that I there's two places that I want to go with in the conversation now that we've kind of established what PRI’s doing, one is, which is where my work intersects with this a lot, is the connection between trauma and the nervous system. And when I, when we first had when we had our first session, I came home and my grandmother said, so what's what did he say?

00:19:49:06 - 00:19:51:28
Speaker 1
And I said, well, it's really my brain.

00:19:52:00 - 00:19:52:18
Speaker 2
That's true.

00:19:52:18 - 00:20:15:12
Speaker 1
And she was like, So now every time I see you and she goes, where are you going? I say, the brain and foot guy. And she goes, oh yeah, okay, cool. So it there as soon as you put it into the perspective of your nervous system is also asymmetrical, which I know I knew, but to be reminded of that.

00:20:15:14 - 00:20:45:11
Speaker 1
Yeah. And then knowing my own body and how trauma has been stored in my body over time, it makes complete sense to me that the right side is. Overly activated, in my nervous system. And it makes total sense to me that you use the word safety, that I didn't feel safe to go into my left energetically. The right side is the masculine, the left side is the feminine.

00:20:45:14 - 00:21:09:24
Speaker 1
So there's a ton of reasons why I didn't feel safe being in my left. Right. So. But the interesting part of this for me is you would think, okay, so it's just about figuring out how to stand on my left, but to do that, the inner side of my right foot had to find the ground, the that to feel safe enough to come down.

00:21:09:24 - 00:21:33:09
Speaker 1
So it's not just going directly into the left energetically, it's figuring out what's where's the stuckness. Yeah. On the right. So when when it comes to trauma and pre how do you see that play out. Is it is it typically right left or is it expressed in other ways.

00:21:33:11 - 00:22:00:29
Speaker 2
So the these individuals now let me people don't necessarily come to me and talk about trauma because they're generally not going to be aware that what they're experiencing, their knee pain, their back pain, whatever it may be, they're not going to attribute it to trauma. They think they have a physical issue. Now, do they have physical pain? Yes.

00:22:01:02 - 00:22:18:27
Speaker 2
But you know, to say, oh, my back hurts. Well, what does that really mean in the sense that when you say my back, do you own your back? Is it something, something separate from you that you then hold on to the moment you put a is that a pronoun? My no. Whatever that. Yeah.

00:22:18:28 - 00:22:20:18
Speaker 1
That's correct. Pronouns. Yeah, yeah.

00:22:20:19 - 00:22:45:05
Speaker 2
So I can't remember grammar wise we don't, I won't. You put a pronoun before back. It's almost acts like it's something separate than you, but you are your back. So do you really have knee pain, hip pain, back pain? Or do you just have pain because of tension? Because of energy flow that stops flowing for whatever reason, there was a threat you tighten.

00:22:45:08 - 00:23:08:02
Speaker 2
I liken it to the point that let's say you're on a highway and you're driving along, you got music on, you're singing, you're completely unaware of yourself because you're in the moment, the music you're driving, you know, you're just not thinking about yourself. Then someone cuts you off and all of a sudden all that attention comes back on to self because there was threat.

00:23:08:04 - 00:23:37:05
Speaker 2
And now you are very aware of yourself again as you react to this insult that someone just, put upon you with cutting you off. But when you're free and loose and flowing like an experienced dancer, they're not they've let go of ego at that point. They're not thinking about themselves anymore. But when we're constantly threatened, if you come from a very difficult childhood or some sort of traumatic background, well, it could be physical trauma, could be emotional trauma.

00:23:37:05 - 00:24:08:16
Speaker 2
It doesn't matter. As long as your brain is sensing a threat, that energy is going to start to restrict and it's not going to restrict and keep you in the center. It's going to put you on your dominant side where it's easier to breathe. So. So people who've been traumatized or they know whether it's big T, big T trauma or little T trauma, like thousands of little T traumas that we then interpret in a way that makes it out to be bigger than it really is, which is what happens to a lot of people in their younger years.

00:24:08:18 - 00:24:38:24
Speaker 2
You know, you think back upon, you know, when you're a teenager, like, why do I care so much about that? But back then, that was your entire existence was what your peers thought of you. That's that's just life. And so anytime you go through difficult experiences, that's that's small t trauma. If it happens too much and you think it's actually a reflection of you rather than the jerky kid who's treating you badly because they're being abused or something like that, you know, you don't have that wherewithal to understand that and put it in context.

00:24:38:27 - 00:24:59:03
Speaker 2
So however that trauma builds up, whether it's big T trauma, small T trauma, little by little or all at once, in the case of extreme trauma, you're going to your right side to handle that threat, and then your brain will keep putting you back there as long as it keeps being reminded of, of that threat. So but it could be a threat from 30 years ago.

00:24:59:06 - 00:25:09:22
Speaker 2
And your brain then here, like we likely discovered, it could be a name and that'll put you back on the right side, even though it's 30 years later. I've done this with multiple people, and it's pretty fascinating.

00:25:09:24 - 00:25:26:06
Speaker 1
Let's talk about that. I because I but my listeners will totally go there and get it. And I immediately was like, yup, let's do it. so what did you kind of came up with this on your own? Right. This working with yourself?

00:25:26:08 - 00:25:59:02
Speaker 2
Yeah. I was pulling together many different sources of information from neurology, brain science, neuroscience, from observations of a French ear, nose and throat doctor. he was a he was a someone who worked with professional singers, for opera singers for his whole career. and he and he was he was more about hearing and he was talking about how hearing directs the voice and people's vocal production is very dependent upon being right ear dominant.

00:25:59:04 - 00:26:15:19
Speaker 2
So again, that lateralization is found in all areas of science. It's just no one has ever put it together. Like Ron Hruska has in the has from the process of restoration. So all these things and like Ron says, it's like I didn't discover any of this. It's all in the research. It's just no one puts it together.

00:26:15:19 - 00:26:47:16
Speaker 2
And I just did for for a variety of reasons. so what I was realizing was that so out of nowhere, I'd have like back tension or back pain and it just and I know it wasn't there wasn't like a technique for me to do right. I can do all the techniques. So I knew that wasn't the issue, but it was very weird circumstances when I would start to get kind of back pain or feel tension in my legs out of kind of nowhere because I wasn't doing anything particular, and I just started to pay attention to what was going on.

00:26:47:19 - 00:27:21:22
Speaker 2
And it seemed to be when certain types of songs were playing or certain frequencies, or voices. Interestingly enough, from I eventually narrowed down to British, well, let's say British, Scottish, Welsh, anything from the British Isles, including, ironically, not Irish. Maybe it's because I'm of Irish descent and my grandparents had Irish accents when I was young, I don't know, but oddly enough, Irish accents didn't tighten me up.

00:27:21:27 - 00:27:43:18
Speaker 2
But the others would. They would make my back-- Or oh, an Indian languages also-- so I bought a book and I found it on the on the language trees. It was all in this one area so -- And they're all high frequencies, so high frequency voices, particularly a female British voice would start to create tension and but then it wouldn't happen.

00:27:43:21 - 00:28:02:22
Speaker 2
I mean, I got I could go into this. Let me try to make the short version so things like that and then certain songs from childhood and it was all between. And once I became aware of it, I get, oh, the, the way I would know. Besides the tension would be I can't touch my toes. So my baseline is that I can touch my toes.

00:28:02:25 - 00:28:23:19
Speaker 2
And then I would hear a song from, you know, 1991 and I can't touch my toes, but I but I know that that song is not any song from 1991. It's specific songs, and I know the certain songs that that would tighten me up. I know exactly where those what those songs were associated with at that point in my life.

00:28:23:22 - 00:28:42:08
Speaker 2
And it's the associations. Clearly, it's not Heavy D and The Boys that is that my brain is freaking out about. It's how it's bringing me back to the summer of eighth, between eighth and ninth grade. So music, more than anything else in your life except maybe smell, will bring you back to a certain point in your life very, very, very quickly.

00:28:42:08 - 00:29:04:06
Speaker 2
We also, I think we all have kind of a soundtrack of our life. That's the way I look at it. And so that's what I was picking up on. And then I figured, so using the Alfred Tamaris, the French guy who was saying that the left in his mind, the left ear is associated with your past, your history and trauma, and the right ear is associated with the present and the future.

00:29:04:09 - 00:29:17:17
Speaker 2
I realized that if I had a song that was tightening up, tightening me up, tightening me up, meaning I couldn't touch my toes if I sang it into my left ear first, and then I sang it into the right ear.

00:29:17:19 - 00:29:19:06
Speaker 1
And literally doing this so you could.

00:29:19:06 - 00:29:38:27
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I, I, I would yes, I could either do that or I also have these things called hear phones there for singers. And they have these adjustable kind of legs so to speak, these plastic parts that you can direct your voice into your ears. And they're adjustable. So I could I so I could do with the left side first by just lowering the right side so it would make it louder into my left ear.

00:29:38:29 - 00:29:56:04
Speaker 2
And then I could switch it so I yeah, there were a couple of different ways I could do it or I could just simply do this. And that kind of worked also. So there's a bunch of different ways, but the, the and I now this is what I can't remember whether I would actually put myself in less stance at the same time, I think I did.

00:29:56:07 - 00:30:15:13
Speaker 2
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I did. I'm pretty sure I would just go on to my left side. But see, this is a thing. Some people might say, oh, let me try that. If you don't have a stable left side to go into left stance, I don't know if it's going to work the same way. So I have the stable left side, so I put myself into the left stance, saying into my left ear.

00:30:15:15 - 00:30:35:00
Speaker 2
Then I would go into right stance and sing into my right ear, and now it's gone and no longer tightened up. From these songs. I just call it cleaning out the cobwebs, but. Oh, but then, I also found out what happened with names. If I simply said someone's name from my past, it would take me up. And that's what we then started to experiment with.

00:30:35:03 - 00:30:48:23
Speaker 1
Yeah, it definitely did. And then, we did the, the hearing or speaking it so that I could hear it in my left first and then in the right. And then I was testing fine. It was.

00:30:48:29 - 00:30:49:12
Speaker 2
It changed.

00:30:49:17 - 00:31:02:21
Speaker 1
It was changed. So my question is, have you found that since doing that with the same songs cause the same issue in the future, or it was like one and done.

00:31:02:24 - 00:31:03:27
Speaker 2
Now it's gone.

00:31:04:00 - 00:31:19:21
Speaker 1
That's pretty. I mean, that's pretty amazing. I don't know if people like, recognize off the bat how epic that is, but we're talking about like, how much therapy can you save yourself? Well, that's what I know.

00:31:19:21 - 00:31:37:06
Speaker 2
And what I was saying the same thing. But the thing again, legally speaking, I don't know if that's considered. I don't know what that is at this point in time and I don't I can't even explain the process. But it's been repeatable. So at first something right is this my brain is this, is this my brain just messing with me, you know?

00:31:37:08 - 00:31:45:01
Speaker 2
And but once I did it with other people and it actually work the same exact way, there's something there.

00:31:45:03 - 00:32:11:29
Speaker 1
It makes total sense to me, because it's even the way that I teach my students to work on clients. You start with the left side. Why? Because the left side receives information, so it would make sense that it's linked to the past. It's what's receiving that that connection to the past. Yeah. Right side takes action it. Right. So if one side learns from the other, which it does, it makes sense that you would start with the past.

00:32:11:29 - 00:32:16:03
Speaker 1
Start with the left to to come back into it.

00:32:16:06 - 00:32:41:09
Speaker 2
Yeah. So there's an amazing book and like I call it like my PRI Bible actually there's two of them now because he, he wrote a longer book, but it's called The Master and His Emissary. And it's all about the division of the left side of the brain, the right side of the brain. And it's the first half of the book is completely neurology, just about the different hemispheres and how they're different and how they literally present that they present the world to you in two different ways.

00:32:41:11 - 00:33:16:00
Speaker 2
And this is obviously what all Eastern or Eastern philosophy is about, that the fact that we view ourselves as individuals and, you know, separate and reality, it's all one. We are one. We are one with the universe. We are one with everybody else. So what he's showing is that the left hemisphere of the brain, which connects to the right side of the body, that's the important part, is now let me start the other way.

00:33:16:05 - 00:33:41:29
Speaker 2
The right hemisphere of the brain, which connects with the left side of the body, accepts information first. Like you said, you were. You were talking about the left side of the body is the same thing, right? Right. So the right hemisphere of the brain gathers information first, and then it passes it to the left side to to kind of zoom in and label things and manipulate things.

00:33:41:29 - 00:34:04:16
Speaker 2
And, but then it needs to be-- It has to be then allowed to go back to the right side again. And that the thesis of the book is that people who get stuck, you could say it like that. The right hemisphere gets the information, passed it to the left and then the left. Never. It never gets passed back to the right.

00:34:04:19 - 00:34:35:05
Speaker 2
So it could be that when you get threatened. The reprocessing that the whole circle never gets completed. It's like someone who specializes in just knees. it makes no sense. But yet you have knee doctors right there. They've lost sight of the big picture. They just became so overly narrowly focused, which is makes more money, unfortunately. And they keep looking smaller and smaller and smaller.

00:34:35:08 - 00:34:56:17
Speaker 2
But then they miss, you know, they miss the whole big picture. And I think that's basically just the, the, the metaphor for what happens with this processing issue. Right side accepts the information or left side the body accepts the information, gets past the opposite side, but then it has to go back again to be reintegrated. And when we get threatened and traumatized, we lose integration.

00:34:56:20 - 00:35:07:16
Speaker 2
We become fragmented. And really prior to me is just getting that fragmentation out to to reintegrate. Yeah. Yeah.

00:35:07:19 - 00:35:47:06
Speaker 1
So one of the, one of the other places I wanted to go in, this is kind of a perfect segue is the idea of with within the body, right. Being also a reflection of our outer world, so specifically in community. And I was thinking about pre with within the sense of community because one it's you think you're going in and working on one piece of the body to very quickly be reminded of like it, that we are all connected.

00:35:47:09 - 00:35:48:02
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:35:48:05 - 00:36:27:05
Speaker 1
But then also because the, the changes that take place through becoming more not completely, but more symmetrical, may require other practitioners, like an optometrist, like an orthodontist. So, but specifically trained within the PRI modalities. Right. So you've had to, as a practitioner, create a community, find a community of similar but not not the same.

00:36:27:08 - 00:36:27:22
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:36:27:25 - 00:36:51:18
Speaker 1
Practitioners to really have the resources for your clients. So I think that there's a really interesting connection between that process and what's actually happening in the body. Right. And I'm curious what, what you've reflected on that in terms of community and intersectionality with PRI

00:36:51:20 - 00:37:36:00
Speaker 2
So the optometry part, the optometrist and the dental part, it can be very difficult for people to comprehend and understandably, but if you have any background in the brain and human movement. The the cranial, the cranium houses the cranial nerves. The cranial nerves are your vagus system. Everything that comes in front of you, your visual system, your your your airflow through your nostrils, your everything in your oral cavity, your your voice box, everything that you communicate, all the things that make us human.

00:37:36:02 - 00:38:07:08
Speaker 2
Well, there's a lot of things that make us human. But that ability to communicate with language, being socially involved, we are social creatures. That all happens through the front. They call it the ventral vagus system. So it comes through here. And when something through here, which is of utmost importance to us and hearing obviously when something goes wrong there, the the brain is so threatened by that that it will ignore everything else that's coming from down low.

00:38:07:10 - 00:38:32:23
Speaker 2
You become disembodied. Now, this is my story. I mean, this is my with all my chronic, with my tinnitus. At age of 13, the the, the the pain that started my sophomore year in high school and last until I was 35, I mean, that was my physical body, the plantar fasciitis, the shin splints, the C joint issues, the neck spasms, all the things I probably lost even track of.

00:38:32:26 - 00:38:52:27
Speaker 2
None of it had anything do with my physical body. That's where the pain was. But it wasn't because there was anything wrong with my body. The tension could not let go my neck and my back, my extension muscles, the fight or flight system could not come down. It was that I my brain was threatened from the moment my teeth got straightened with the jaw.

00:38:52:27 - 00:39:18:08
Speaker 2
That was in the wrong position, and it cracked my neck and my whole cranium literally twisted. it's called cranial strain patterns. It's it's it's known about the cranial strain patterns are certainly known in in body work circles. Right. So peri addresses cranial strain and they're the they're the hardest people to, to work with. because it often needs some sort of help.

00:39:18:08 - 00:39:45:09
Speaker 2
Dentally from the generally in the, in the, in the, in the mode of a specially designed mandibular splint. but sometimes people with cranial strain patterns, everything has gotten so all their frequencies have gotten so thrown off and they start to overuse one of those frequencies, like one eye and they drop off the other eye, or like me, they start to overuse their right canine, which I.

00:39:45:09 - 00:40:05:00
Speaker 2
That's why I always get concerned about when someone says, I think my right canine a little bit more. I know what that means now. It means they've taught something has gone horribly wrong. But the thing was, I didn't see any displacement of your canine. You were just sensing it a little bit. So that's why I, I was saying this might not be an issue because I don't see anything really crazily twisted.

00:40:05:02 - 00:40:24:23
Speaker 2
so, yeah, you need see sometimes do need a special optometrist, which is a special dentist who they don't have to be PRI they're not going to be trained by PR. I what will happen is they will have partnered up with a PRI physical therapist generally who they don't really have to know it. They just have to be open minded enough to say, okay, I'll help.

00:40:24:23 - 00:40:56:09
Speaker 2
I'll do whatever you need me to do and not insist on their way of doing something. Because when when they do it, when you if you if you get some sort of special prescription, it's not to see 20/20. It's to get your brain noticing space again, particularly on the left side. If you get a dentist to help, it's not for dental reasons necessarily, it's just to restore appropriate sense of your mouth to get off of the right canine, to give you molar sense, which has to happen for you to be able to shift from side to side and for your head to be able to rotate appropriately.

00:40:56:16 - 00:41:16:23
Speaker 2
Otherwise your neck tightens up and your back into extension. So these things are really found. You actually use an optometrist or an optometrist or a dentist to help reground the system has. That's the point of it. Not to make you see more clearly, not not to change your teeth for any other reason. It's not even in the beginning.

00:41:16:23 - 00:41:46:13
Speaker 2
Don't change that. You don't want to change teeth on a body that's still crooked. You're just gonna lock them into that position. So we use these things, these tools we need in a community to relax the body and find the ground again. And then you have the ability to do a PRI program But in terms of community, I always say that, you know, if you're living in a situation where you feel disconnected or you're living in a situation where it's it's constant threat, it could be maybe you're in a bad marriage.

00:41:46:13 - 00:42:08:09
Speaker 2
Maybe you maybe have kids that are driving you crazy. Maybe you're in a job that you don't like that stresses you out. And that's a lot of people I don't know if I don't know how, I'm not sure I care. I alone in that situation will change everything for you, because the moment you go back to your environment, you're going to be tensed up again.

00:42:08:12 - 00:42:28:20
Speaker 2
And that's what was so amazing to me when I started having these discoveries numerous years ago, where I realized just by getting somebody completely neutral and then playing a song that that they don't like will tighten them up. They just don't. It doesn't even have to be something they associate with threat. It's just a genre of music they don't like.

00:42:28:20 - 00:42:47:14
Speaker 2
Well, put them right back into the pattern, right back onto the right side very, very quickly. So when I started to have those fully, you know, those those moments, it made me think long term, like, these people are going to need a life change. Like if someone's in this situation now, which not everybody is, but it's not infrequent.

00:42:47:17 - 00:43:18:01
Speaker 2
So that's energy, that's tension, that's community. And when you lack community, when you become alienated, when you feel like you have no purpose in life, you have that's going that's going to be exhibited in your body. I always say people watch too much political TV. I don't want to work with them, and I'm always listening for what they say during a session to try to figure out what they're focused on, because it's going to be a long road, because I know if they're getting their self value or sense of self based off of what?

00:43:18:03 - 00:43:28:16
Speaker 2
Because they're not like those people. This is going to be a long battle. I don't I'm not sure I can help because that negative energy is going to overcome anything we try to do.

00:43:28:18 - 00:43:59:19
Speaker 1
I love that you just said that. I was not expecting you to go there, but it makes total sense. Oh, yeah. I, I, I completely agree. And I also, I think it's important to say because I don't, I don't think people really think about the energetics that they're bringing into. A healing relationship, whether it's prior acupuncture or whatever.

00:43:59:22 - 00:44:02:22
Speaker 1
But I think they're just coming. You're going to help me, right?

00:44:02:28 - 00:44:05:24
Speaker 2
Right, right, right. Fix me, fix me.

00:44:05:24 - 00:44:07:11
Speaker 1
Right. Yeah. That's how it.

00:44:07:11 - 00:44:08:14
Speaker 2
Works.

00:44:08:16 - 00:44:26:04
Speaker 1
And there's there's also this, but they're for people who are doing this work. There is absolutely a sense when the person walks into the room of, oh, they're not even going to be able to receive it. Like they're just they're not in a place where.

00:44:26:12 - 00:44:26:24
Speaker 2
Absolutely.

00:44:26:25 - 00:44:39:00
Speaker 1
They'll be they might feel something, and maybe that something is enough to come back, but it's not going to be a quick fix. What they're looking for, the fix me is not going to happen.

00:44:39:00 - 00:44:40:09
Speaker 2
That's not how it works now.

00:44:40:11 - 00:45:00:01
Speaker 1
Yeah. how how has it changed for you in terms of. What you perceive as the end result of you working with someone?

00:45:00:04 - 00:45:23:08
Speaker 2
It's a good question. Obviously, I want them to feel better, but at no point do I think this is the logical series of steps that have to occur for you to. So I never can say, oh, you have to come ten sessions. Like, how do you know, how would I know how many sessions going to take somebody now I say 3 to 6.

00:45:23:08 - 00:45:47:01
Speaker 2
But again, I'm assuming which I know is not always the case, that there is no major outside influences. I have to make some assumptions, but that may not happen, that that assumption may not be true. And I and again, I try to get a feel for these people where they're coming from as humans. I don't it's not a biomechanical issue.

00:45:47:03 - 00:46:11:25
Speaker 2
So even with your foot at no point where there chronic ankle sprains. Yeah. Does that create some sort of mechanical issue. Yes. But that biomechanical issue came off of a loss of sense and a threat level that was still too heightened. So at no point was I going to try to make you do. Although I think I know like I contradict myself because you did have many ankle sprains.

00:46:11:25 - 00:46:32:12
Speaker 2
I said, you know, you might want to try some actual, you know, kind of physical therapy type of things with plantar flexion, which I may have helped. And that was really but also that was to prepare you because there's always going to be a feedback to your brain anytime you move a limb or a foot, there will be some sort of feedback to the brain.

00:46:32:14 - 00:46:53:16
Speaker 2
It's just that when it doesn't progress on something, it doesn't really get tactile feedback, but nonetheless, getting feet to plantar flex again when they've been stuck in a more threatened position is not a bad thing. But by itself, that wouldn't have changed a thing. And I'm pretty sure I said, I think I said, as you're doing it, make sure you're sensing the sit bones.

00:46:53:18 - 00:47:20:12
Speaker 2
because without that your brain, you're can't understand why you would plantar flex. But if you plant are flex and shift over to sit on it then associates plantar flexion with shift to the opposite side. So I didn't do it in a conventional physical therapy sense. Like I just do this randomly. It's going to work. It was a I had to associate it with another sense, which is I'll give it a reason to plantar flex, which means you shift to the opposite side.

00:47:20:14 - 00:47:25:22
Speaker 2
If you just plantar flex your right foot and you still stay on your right side, I'm not sure how it's going to change anything.

00:47:25:24 - 00:47:26:13
Speaker 1
Right?

00:47:26:15 - 00:47:44:03
Speaker 2
Right. So we're trying to make connections in that brain to associate a movement with another movement. And that's how it really works. Just doing random stretches and random plantar flexion really wouldn't have changed a whole lot. So, oh gosh. Now I forgot what the question was.

00:47:44:06 - 00:47:49:13
Speaker 1
And you're doing great. The question was basically like how? Oh absence. Yeah yeah.

00:47:49:15 - 00:48:24:01
Speaker 2
Yeah. So obviously I want people to feel better, but my goal is to change people's perspective on existence. you know, there's been there. When I first started doing PRI, there were a group of somewhat influential practitioners who actually, I can't even say they're practitioners. It's just it was PRI, I was so still new and that anyone who had taken over ten courses was, you know, an authority at that point.

00:48:24:03 - 00:48:39:22
Speaker 2
It's just that's how it was at that point. There were just so few of us. And so I would listen to them and some of them actually posted YouTube videos. And there they're talking about how they would they were like at a beach house or something, and they were talking about PRI and how they would treat somebody.

00:48:39:24 - 00:49:07:17
Speaker 2
And the one guy said, okay, this individual has this testing that's not going the correct way. So I know this is happening, but I would never explain it like that. I'll just, you know, it's like they're assuming that people are incapable of understanding a bigger picture. And maybe some people are I don't doubt that. I'm sure some people meet with me and they're like, this guy's nuts.

00:49:07:19 - 00:49:36:24
Speaker 2
Okay, I feel difference. But I don't understand. He's talking about which is fine. They can find somebody else if they need to. But if you can't change, if I can't change that person, that individual's perspective on how this system works and how the brand and how we exist in relation to the external world, I don't know how much good I'm doing in the long run, because they're still going to think that they can be fixed when there's actually nothing to fix.

00:49:36:26 - 00:49:58:07
Speaker 2
They just have to let go, and when they can let go of that, left side will come online. So I need them to understand that and also that there's so many ways because just we're dealing with tension and energy. That's all it is. That there's a lot of things that you can do besides more and more exercises or techniques.

00:49:58:07 - 00:50:12:17
Speaker 2
I don't call them exercise techniques because people say, oh, well, this is not working, so give me another one. This is not work, I need another, I need another like, boom, you don't think you I don't think you need I don't think it's going to be a case of one more technique that's going to be the key for you right now.

00:50:12:22 - 00:50:35:05
Speaker 2
There's something else going on in life. So I need people to, to, to really expand their horizons. And the more they can do that, though, the more they can expand the horizons of other people. But if you keep that individual still thinking he has something wrong with his back, that he or she has something wrong with their back, well, that's just typical physical therapy at that point in their mind, it's no different.

00:50:35:05 - 00:50:57:03
Speaker 2
That's okay. It's a little bit different cause he's got me doing this weird techniques of blowing up balloons, but in their consciousness hasn't been changed, so I don't see how that's going to change much at all. The problem is the context or the the frame that people are still viewing. Human movement and idiopathic pain is still of a very mechanical nature, but it's way more spiritual.

00:50:57:03 - 00:51:13:29
Speaker 2
And and I don't mean that in a religious sense at all. It's a, it's a that's a people have a spiritual their sense of self has been so diminished, they have no joy in life. Quite often they don't do anything that they like to do. Well, that's a lot of negative energy. They're stuck in a situation they can't get out of whatever it's going to be.

00:51:14:02 - 00:51:30:27
Speaker 2
That's the issue. The body is just reflecting that now. There could be there could be physical trauma. It's also like, you know, ankle sprain and things like that. But did it did it really start off as a physical issue? No, not the vast majority of cases. Not this is this is spirit. Yeah. Not my.

00:51:30:27 - 00:51:51:21
Speaker 1
Pain. This most recent thing that I was coming to you for. It started immediately when I came back from the United States after a terrible breakup. Like it was. It was made complete sense. What was that? My whole everything was had fallen apart. It. I knew that my body was going to show some way. I just didn't expect it to to be this.

00:51:51:24 - 00:51:52:14
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:51:52:17 - 00:52:01:21
Speaker 2
Well yeah, it moved through it. Yeah I will, I would, I would, I would say that, that, that event was probably the, you know, the kind of straw that broke the camel's back.

00:52:01:23 - 00:52:02:17
Speaker 1
I'm sure it was.

00:52:02:20 - 00:52:06:01
Speaker 2
That been brewing since childhood. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:52:06:04 - 00:52:12:06
Speaker 1
That was the first thing I said to you was. Yeah. So have you heard of ace scores? Cause because mine is off the charts so.

00:52:12:08 - 00:52:30:01
Speaker 2
Immediately, like. Oh, okay. Yeah. So that the physical manifest, the physical symptom to have been brewing for a long time, for sure. It was just one more event was just. All right. My brain, the branch couldn't handle it anymore. And you start to get the symptoms.

00:52:30:03 - 00:52:50:04
Speaker 1
Neal, I am so, so grateful that you were willing to have this conversation today. And I have a feeling that I'm going to get a lot. I've. I've sent people your link, an email already, but I feel like we're going to get a lot more people interested. So where where can people find you? What's the best way to connect with you if they want to work with you?

00:52:50:07 - 00:53:14:05
Speaker 2
well, my website, pritrainer.com has the information, on my in-person training, my YouTube channel has. If you're interested in pass restaurant, just my YouTube channel is basically that's really all it is. Even if it seems like why is this guy talk about anxiety? It's restoration. Like after listening to this conversation, you should realize it's not separate.

00:53:14:07 - 00:53:22:17
Speaker 2
so my YouTube channel, which is just I don't even know what the name of it is. I think it's just my name. Neal Hallinan.You have to, try to figure that out. we'll.

00:53:22:17 - 00:53:24:11
Speaker 1
Put it in the show notes to. So people. Yeah.

00:53:24:18 - 00:53:48:29
Speaker 2
Okay. but, yeah, that's that's pretty much it. But I would always recommend if someone did want to reach out to me, even if you've heard this discussion, say, oh, this sounds I would still recommend watching videos just to get a better grasp of all of this, because it is complicated and it does require a a big change in perspective.

00:53:49:01 - 00:54:11:17
Speaker 2
Although if they're the type of people that would listen to you, they probably are not standard medical. they probably already have a slightly bigger perspective rather than the narrowly focused, hey, my knee hurts, treat my knee, fix me, you know, because that's not what it is. That's not what theory is. But I also say if you're in another state and let's say you're going to look you, maybe you want to try posture restoration.

00:54:11:17 - 00:54:19:16
Speaker 2
You can go to the Postural Restoration website, Postural Restoration Institute website. You'll find a find a provider page.

00:54:19:18 - 00:54:41:29
Speaker 2
Just because they are PRI credentialed does not mean they're going to see things the same way that I am. Okay. So I just want to make that point because I have people have come to me like, you know, I saw up here, I pressed, but he didn't explain this like you do. And so even though you everyone learn takes the same coursework, we all have different.

00:54:42:06 - 00:55:16:18
Speaker 2
My background makes things a little bit unique for me because I was the highest level PRI patient you could possibly be and then my dance background changes things also. So my understanding how to use rhythm and understanding how the brain is really just responding to rhythm overall, so I my, my personal experiences make me use the material, the understanding of asymmetry, perhaps slightly differently than, than very qualified here.

00:55:16:18 - 00:55:30:28
Speaker 2
I, therapists. So just keep that in mind because most of them are still physical therapists, so they still operate maybe from a little bit more biomechanics standpoint, they can still get the same results. But they're not gonna talk about dancing with you most likely. All right.

00:55:30:28 - 00:55:34:22
Speaker 1
So I enjoy the dancing part. So you were the perfect person for me.

00:55:34:24 - 00:55:52:19
Speaker 2
Yeah. It's a it's it's the more you study the neurology behind how the brain actually works, you understand why the more you read. Oh, yeah. And music. So but I'm just saying that you can still get great results from just PRI that's presented in a very typical PRI framework where they talk about certain muscles and they talk about breathing.

00:55:52:21 - 00:56:02:26
Speaker 2
It's still leading to the same place. It's just that the way I conceive of things is always going to be slightly different from the other people, simply because my personal experiences are different.

00:56:02:28 - 00:56:10:10
Speaker 1
Makes total sense. you know, I could spend all afternoon talking to you and, like, nerding out with you.

00:56:10:12 - 00:56:11:11
Speaker 2
I love nerding out.

00:56:11:13 - 00:56:32:24
Speaker 1
Yes. And I would love to have you back on. I think we could get into even more, but this was a, I think, a really great introduction for folks. And I'm so grateful that you are here. Queridas. We made it to one of my favorite parts of each episode-- the Moment of Flow. I love poetry, I love words and rhythm,

00:56:32:24 - 00:57:01:16
Speaker 1
and how when you mix the two, you get into, a beautiful state of flow. And so I want to leave you with that at the end of each episode. So here it is, your Moment of Flow. Move. Stand up. Simple. Or is it one leg mirrors the other--We've been told. But the shots of fire burning my right knee, right ankle shatter the illusion of symmetry.

00:57:01:18 - 00:57:29:08
Speaker 1
Relearning to stand, to walk. To be in this body. Fully in this body. With all the nooks and crannies. All the twists and turns. Finding how to trust, the earth holds me, my left and my right. The earth holds me and I can shift into my left. I can play with the asymmetry. Make a collage from the misaligned parts as they come together--in a whole

00:57:29:08 - 00:57:31:27
Speaker 1
Me -- expressed in a new body.