"Discerning the Priesthood" with Guest & Seminarian, Jack Cooper - 53

In this episode, Lori sits down with Seminarian, Jack Cooper to discuss the process of his discernment to the Priesthood and what has led him to want to serve the Lord in this way.

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Transcript

0:02

Welcome to Fresh Catholic, a podcast for those who are converting, reverting or simply want a fresh perspective of the Catholic faith to help them to open their hearts and minds, to become closer to the love and goodness of Christ. My daily prayer is that I will be a bright light to others to be filled with the love and light of Christ so that when people look at me, they see him radiating out from me for His glory. Hello and welcome. I'm Lori Balderas, and I'm so happy you're here. So I have a very special guest sitting with me today. I'm very excited. I have been trying to get Jack Cooper in this chair across from me for a while now. I had his brother Henry on an episode. Episode number 41. If you haven't listened to that one, go back and have a listen. And so I have Jack Cooper here. Hello, Jack Cooper. Hello. How are you? I'm good. How are you? I feel so honored to have you here. I it's been a little tricky getting you here. You are one busy man. And I said this in the episode with Henry. I didn't realize you guys were brothers, so I think that's really funny. I just thought, Wow, these two guys are just amazing. And how were you raised to turn out to be these faithful boys that you are? Like, what was the secret sauce that your mother and father had a chuckle at that because just just a couple weeks ago, I actually had a similar question and I really couldn't think of a specific thing per se. And I've had this conversation with my mother and my brother a number of times, basically, like what went right? What series of events, what decisions were made that really kind of produced, quote unquote, my brother and I. And to some degree, I almost can't think of anything. There really isn't any like catechesis or like strong catechetical environment that my parents really created that really makes me think this was something or there really wasn't like a strong encouragement to pray every day. And so I actually think that there's really isn't a formula per se. That being said, I can, with hindsight say maybe these are just some things that could have been done better. Right. And my mom's input on that as well. I was praying when you guys were growing up. I was praying that you guys would grow up well, that you guys would, you know, every single day. She says she prays and she didn't really pray around us, but it wasn't something that we really saw. My brother, I really didn't see my mom pray and like my brother mentioned in the podcast with him. My dad's not Catholic, right? But he used to come to church with us sometimes. So leading up to COVID, maybe it wasn't every week, but pretty consistently he would go with us to Mass and he would maybe not dress the nicest or, you know, really do all the things that you're supposed to do at mass. But the fact that he was there was just really awesome for us. And so, yeah, I, I'd say that that was there was a lot of a lack wouldn't say a lot of but a lack of really strong catechesis and and prayer like example but also just like keeping in mind that there are at least four saints that I can name. Two of them had really strong examples from their family of really holy people. So Saint Teresa lisieux there was another one that I was thinking, and then there's also a couple of other scenes that don't have that example. So our Augustine was the other Augustine had a very strong example with his mother. But you also have seen Teresa of Avila and Saint Francis of Assisi, whose parents were not really that taking the faith that seriously, maybe as seriously as they could have, but they still turned out to be very, very faithful. In fact, they're obviously saints in the Catholic Church. And so I think it's maybe almost a fallacy or maybe an error sometimes to say that it has to be because of what your parents are doing, right, your parents. And if they have a strong like a factor or role in that, but they're not all of it. And so I think I think part of it is just recognizing that's a really long way of saying I think it's just got I think it's just like, look, you know, I'm going to give these two, you know, young gentleman a lot of grace to do whatever I need them to do because I look at my my friends and not my family, but some of my family as well. And they're not they're not as faithful. It's like, well, what's what's the difference? What's the difference? And it's not really I don't think it's some of the way we've been raised. I think it's just something that God is a grace that God has just given us. I kind of believe in that, too, because of the fact of I've talked about how I became a Christian a long, long time ago, and that was fine. But it was when I was drawn to the Catholic Church that wasn't anybody is doing except God's doing and God's the one that laid out that path for me. And that's when it happened. And I'm talking to more and more people that will be coming on as guests in the new year. And one of the ladies I just interviewed doing a pre-interview, it was the same thing. God just spoke to her literally spoke to her. She heard his voice. And I love those stories because she wasn't raised in any such a way. But I just think that's beautiful and miraculous. And it's again, it's like if you kind of are open to it. So that kind of being said, then, is there any special light gifts is what I call them. What gifts did your parents give you that you see you personally have that you got from your parents? It doesn't have to be necessary. Billy faithful or Catholic. I'm just wondering, like, what you think you've got from your parents. So I've been able to notice in the past two years just a lot of the things that I naturally just I do that my dad does. So certain mannerisms, certain just behaviors. So I really focus on like cleaning my room today. And I realize that that's the exact same thing my dad does when it's that downtime, like over the weekend, he will basically clean the house and it's like, dad, like you can take a deep breath. It's the week and you're supposed to relax. But here I am doing the exact same thing. It's like, Well, I have free time, you know, I can I finally clean my room And I would say there's there's part of that. It's also my my mom is is an engineer. And so I'd say that I have a little bit of her intelligence and some of the ways that she tries to understand the world. I would say I follow along with that. And also some of her assertiveness. So there's certain situations where it's like I've had to take the leadership role and I very easily slip into that and step into that. But there's also sometimes around very indecisive. So I'd say that's more so I met my dad who a lot of the time we kind of just let my mom make decisions. Personality wise, I would say it's probably that couple of gifts that I get from my parents. I love that. I love to see what people get from their parents because, you know, we're all a mix. What did you want to be when you grew up, when you were a little boy? So I remember when I was like third or fourth grade. I think that question kind of came up and I thought about it for like maybe 5 minutes. And over the course of the next couple of months, I thought about it a little bit more. But as an astronaut, firefighter or police officer, or maybe maybe join the Army. But each of those was kind of like shot in the dark. You know, I felt like I had had a bow and arrow and I kind of just shot it and kind of wherever it landed, I was like, well, I guess that's where I landed. Really wasn't anything that I felt really convicted by. And maybe if you asked my parents when I was like in kindergarten, maybe I said something different. I don't remember that. But I feel like if you ask any average child roughly in third grade these days, your average kid would probably say, I want to be this or I want to be that. I won't be president. And they're going to be like really convicted by that and say, this is what I want to do. Now, obviously, they don't understand all that goes into that and that's going to change. But at the same time that like they probably really are convicted by that in that moment. And I don't think I had that. I don't think I was really ever convicted by, you know, being an astronaut or being a firefighter at that time. But the models are just be like hindsight. And I'm actually projecting my current situation onto my past self. So I don't really know exactly, But I would say those four were the ones that came to mind. Well, it's interesting because those four things in my mind are service related and also dangerous. So that's kind of interesting. But that's kind of a typical boy thing, right? Yeah, I think that's like I think you're right, like a third grade boy, that that seems right about what they would say. Yes. Is that does in my mind those are hero jobs. And I get it's like I know people where they get their mind set on something like Simon Balderas. He was an artist as a child. I mean, he and he's turned into an artist. So I think some people I have a friend whose was into fashion, and she's a fashion designer, and she's always been like that most, most fashionable five year old I ever knew, you know? And to this day, she's the most fashionable person I know. But I do think, you know, sometimes your ideas change about what you think you want to do and you get older and it kind of shifts. So I want to know what drew you to the seminary, the priesthood. Was there an event or a moment that something kind of clicked for you and you thought, this is what I want to pursue? So bouncing off that last question about what I want to be when I grow older, because I didn't really have that strong conviction, especially going to high school, I think that was really strong, like really fertile ground for a calling to the priesthood because I really didn't know what I wanted to do. I was a junior in high school. It seems like most of my associates, my classmates, my friends have what they want to do figure it out. They want to be lawyers. They want to be, you know, coders. They want to be, you know, this thing or that thing. And I didn't really have that strong conviction. I didn't know what college I wanted to go to. I didn't want I want to study. I didn't know what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. But because of that, it was probably about a couple months after I kind of realized that I didn't know what I want to do because of my classmates talk about colleges and whatnot. That was about six months later that I had this prayer experience. I saw one of the priests at during a penance service during Lent, and all he did is pick up a chair, just move it at five feet and put it down so that he could hear someone's confession. Very simple act. But in that moment, I was reminded of a priest that I knew when I was in like third, fourth, fifth grade. And his His Holiness, the warmth that everyone just felt around him. The church was packed. you probably know who I'm talking about Father Steve Donovan. The church was packed every single Sunday. I have very rarely, if ever, seen that church packed like that sense and just being reminded of that, like, okay, maybe, maybe I could do that. Maybe, you know, maybe that's something that I could try and live up to. Not that I have the capacity or the power already, but that maybe that's something that could capture my heart, something I could aspire to later in life. And that was the first moment, the first start where I started thinking about the priesthood. And even now, it's sometimes hard to articulate exactly why that calls to me. But just like like you mentioned, like the sacrifice but also the service, I would say that that's probably a good articulation. That'll be the first time I was a junior in high school. I was really like open to it. And obviously there's been things sense, things have changed a little bit. But yeah, it's and you're how old now? 21. 21. Yes. I have to remind myself I'm 21 and not 22 because my birthday's coming up in a couple months and I can try to say I'm 22. I'm like, No, I'm still still 21. 21 So, okay, well, that that makes sense to me. I can see that. Definitely role models definitely like getting that in your head. Like again, kind of shifting service. Being a priest is an easy job. It also could be dangerous. So I'm not like discounting that. It's different than those other vocations, but it's interesting that it's like a different way of serving and I just think it's so needed and so necessary. It's so life giving and important. And I just know that our priests, they work so hard, they have such long hours. And one of the things I appreciate about Father Matthew in particular is when he gets up and he is pretty honest about like how he's feeling about some things, he doesn't go up there and just act like everything's fine and dandy all the time. It's no worries, no problem. It's like he'll say, you know, like it's really hard. It's very emotional, all these things. I think that's really I love to hear his honesty about it. So here's a deeper question. When do you feel if you remember, when do you feel you really fell in love with Christ? Because I know when I fell in love with him and it was like this very unusual moment where I was thinking, I'm actually in love with Jesus. And I didn't even know Jesus then. And I just, like, instantly loved him. And when I loved him, I fell in love with him. And it sounds weird to people who aren't in love with him. They think, What, are you crazy? But we're not crazy. I know my moment, so I'm just wondering if you remember or no, that moment. I wouldn't say it's exactly a specific moment, but I would say I would say it's a time in my life. So I was a it was in middle school more or less. And I had a lot of I was going through a lot of the same struggles that your average middle schooler goes through. I don't think I was really special or different in that way and just not really knowing how to handle that, right. Not feeling really comfortable being able to explain these things to my classmates. Because sometimes to solve a problem, you'd ask someone who is smarter than you and my classmates are probably about as equal as I was. So I think they really would have would have been able to help. And at the same time, even if, you know, just talking to them would have been helpful just to get it out there to like event. I don't think I really felt close enough to any of them to really be able to talk about those things. So I don't really have anyone my age to be able to talk to, and I really didn't have the confidence or trust to talk to my parents about some of the stuff just yet. So I kind of turned the only thing I really knew that I could turn to, and that was my faith. It was a very, like, haphazard at the beginning, but still it was like, all right, occasionally I got to try and protective the rosary or I'm going to just like, pray and ask God, or I'm going to try and express this through like poetry. And it was difficult, but at the same time, like that was a lot of groundwork. It wasn't at that time in middle school, I would say when I first got on to the confirmation retreats, I remember the confirmation retreats, the two that I was participating in confirmation for, and then also the two that I was helping as a peer leader for it. We're also very, very powerful. And just throughout that, that whole period, I would say it's a very gradual, continual growth just growing more and more in love, you know, with God wanting to spend that time in the chapel, wanting to spend, you know, time in prayer, doing, doing ministry, you know, being around other young Catholics just over time that took a deeper and deeper root into my heart. And at spend my Life is ten years, maybe a little bit more or less than that. But like, yeah, ten years. Wow. And you know, it's interesting you say that about the confirmation retreats because I get the impression I've never been to one, but I get the impression that that happens a lot and frequently. I know, like Father Matthew has talked about, his experience was at a confirmation retreat. And I've heard that from a lot of people. And I've also heard even the kids that are reluctant to go maybe on the confirmation retreat the first day might be a little rough because they have you put down your devices and all these things. But I've heard that they really turn to the Lord in that moment. It's really makes a big impression. Obviously, you had that happen. Can you give us a sense when you go to those that you can see the kids that are falling in love with Jesus or changing their mindset? Can you kind of see it or do you think it's a lot more internal? I would say it depends. It's a it requires experience. So you have to have gone on a lot of these retreats. You have to be able to be aware of kind of what's going and inter internally, but also what's going on in other people's lives. And faith walks, especially over that retreat. And then at some point you can kind of start to be able to discern. And something I've talked with both Father Matthew and a couple of other people about, you can kind of observe where someone is at or coming from it. Once you get to a certain kind of level of spiritual maturity. And I say level because it's not that spiritually mature, but you can kind of pay attention, okay, This person, they talk about this, this is how they talk about that. But there's also people I know that really, even as they were coming to fall in love with Jesus, they were still suppressing a lot of that. So they didn't show it externally, but internally that was like one of the one of my friends. He he said he would be that kid that really wanted to be there, but he wouldn't show it. He would sit in the back. He'd have his arms folded, his body up, and he would look down, but he would be really attentively, like intently paying attention to what whatever was being said on stage. And there's also those other kids that are just front row. They want to be there. They're volunteering to lecture, they're volunteering to altars, or because they do want to be there. Well, okay, there's like some something you can kind of tell and some you can kind of, you know, not really tell, but at the end of the day, it's like it's the Lord he judges and he's going to be able to tell like, who's going to respond to the call and who's not and when and when. Yeah, yeah. And when I agree with that, I just get very excited, like knowing that I converted and how I felt and how excited I was. I love this time of year when there's the people that are getting ready to go become Catholic at the Easter vigil and I'm just so happy for them. It just brings tears of joy to my eyes and to my heart that they are experiencing. But they haven't even experienced the most beautiful part yet. I'm so excited for them. It's such a beautiful thing and it is in God's time. It is, you know, with his prompting, I know Simon and I have a friend who also we've done work for, and he is in the RCA group right now. And we're so happy for him. I never even thought that might be something he would be interested in. And now when I see him on Sunday and he just looks I can just see it in his face, you know? And I'm just thinking, just wait, that's like, this is great this way. So I think it's exciting to see people going through that process for sure. So what is the process when you decide you want to go in the seminary? What's the process of that? All right. So I would say that will probably take a few steps backwards and say, okay, let's say you're discerning a call to the priesthood. First, you should talk to your pastor. So in our in our parish, be like it's like the head priest. Typically it's the oldest priest, But talk to him first and then we'll say the most established. That's probably that's probably a more prudent way of putting that. Yes. Or whoever has the title of pastor. Yeah. Yeah. And then he'll probably get you in touch with the vocations director for your regions, the regional vocations director, and then talk to him. Then he'll be able to kind of get you in touch with what paperwork and all that. But here in L.A., if you're not, if you haven't graduated college yet. So if you're still in high school, you know, coming out of high school, you haven't graduated college yet, then you would go to the Queen of Angels priestly formation house program. So you would then attend college while living there at the probation house, still discerning, having a couple of other classes and retreats that go on there. And then once you graduate college, then you would go to Saint John's and Camerino. But if you have already graduated college, then you would just go to Saint John's. Obviously having talk to your pastor and your applications director first, doing the whole application. Then you go to Saint John's, you'll take two years of philosophy and then four years of theology. I think it's a year of living in the parish meal thing, things like nine months, but like a year of being in the parish and then being ordained as a transitional deacon. Six months after that, being ordained as a priest, and then you're your priest, you know you're ordained. But I'm not going to take those two years of philosophy because I'll have a bachelor's in philosophy graduating coming out of college. Okay. So there's kind of two tracks you have to have and graduated college and have graduated college. And it really just depends on kind of where you go for the first couple of years and then when you end up going to the major seminary in Camarillo, St John's, your classes will look a little different. So when you're there and you're saying, what did you call it, a formation. Formation, Yeah. So is that safe to say that they're kind of keeping you away from like wild college life? They're trying to keep you kind of focused? Is that a good way to say it a little bit? I don't know exactly how to characterize it in response to that per se. How it is why I was say you're telling me it's a house of formation and so were there not to, I think, be preserved from the world. But I think in order to be conformed to Christ. Okay. And I would say that's more I would put it that way, because there are certain retreats that will go to once a month and we'll stay there at the formation house over the weekend and go on that retreat that they'll put on for us. And it'll just be like the ten of us. There's only ten of us that live there right now. And obviously if you kind of do something, it's a little too out of bounds. Then you might get called into the four meters office and be like, Let's have a conversation about that. You probably know what you should be doing. But I guess what I'm saying is it's better than if you were just living on your own in an apartment or with a bunch of frat boys. Yes. Okay. 100%. Yeah. So it's kind of like trying to keep you on the straight and narrow. But then if you mess up, you're human and you'll get. I don't want to say you the character that's a nice word, Changed or corrected. So I like that. Okay. So when you go to your what was it, spiritual director? No, what did you go to? Vocational Director regional. vocations director. When you go and you say that you're interested in becoming a priest or however you worded it to them, are they welcoming to you and like, my gosh, this is the best thing ever, Welcome. This is going to be great. Or are they trying to not discourage you, but be realistic about it at that point or, you know, because I would imagine over though, the entire time you're trying to decide what you're going to do, there has to be the truth and the realization of things, because I know a lot of people that have gone, you know, tried to go to the seminary. Some of them have made it and some of them don't. And I think you have to really decide what you're doing and be sure about it. Same with the RCIA. It's the same thing. You're not tied to it. You're not like shackled. Then they're saying, now you have to do it. Now you're locked in. It does have to be your choice, your decision. So how are you received when you go? So I would say it's actually neither of those. It's a little bit of both. I'd say I'd probably a better way of putting it because, for example, you reach out to vocations director, they probably say, that's awesome. We have a, you know, vocations event going on on this day at this time, you know, show up. We're happy to see you. The wife should probably before that, we'll probably reach out and say, Let's call or let's chat, let's talk. They just want to get to know you, right? Because the vocations director, chances are they've seen a number of guys go into seminary, some of them leave, some of them not even into seminary. So they kind of have a more or less a little bit of a grasp on who who's kind of writing, who's not. So they want to get a good grasp of who you as an individual are. They'll kind of meet with you just to chat, see where you're at, see where your prayer is at, see what you like to talk about, kind of see how mature you are. And then they'll invite you to like a couple of events and you'll see some of the other guys that are also discerning to join. You'll meet some of the other priests. You might even meet the archbishop or a regional bishop and just kind of getting to know the other guys. And then that's at the same time they'll kind of have conversations about if you're thinking you're ready to join this year or next year for seminary, and then they'll help you along with that process as well. I would say they're very warm and welcoming. Yes. So you've crack jokes with them, but at the same time, we're talking about spiritual things. And it's it's awesome to see how that how that relationship and see that's part of what the foundation is having that relationship first. And then from that relationship being able to enjoy, but also to be able to maybe correct or encourage to to change. Well, I think that's kind of honestly when people are coming out of high school, going into university. I remember my dad, who was a teacher, he used to say a lot of kids would go out of high school and a university and think they wanted to do a certain thing, completely changed their major. I think that's very typical. And he would always say, Just go get your basic stuff. In the first two years, like he encouraged junior college because he said, then when you decide because you're going to probably change your mind. And so I think it's fair to say becoming a priest, it's not just a job, it's a lifestyle. It's a very serious in a good way, but a very serious commitment. Exactly. And I also, just like everything Catholic, everything takes a long time. I think it's good that it takes a long time. I think it's such an incredibly important job. People's lives are in their hands, the priests. And I'm glad it takes a long time. I'm glad it takes a lot of discernment. I think there's a lot of priests that maybe aren't the best in any job, but to be a seriously, you know, devoted priest, I think that's really interesting. So, so far in the school, how's it going? I showed earlier about how I inherited my mother's. Maybe smarts would probably be a better way to put it, and that's been that's been great because I haven't really had to study a lot throughout high school or even middle school. But the downside is I never really had to learn how to do the discipline of studying. So especially going to college, it's been a little bit of a struggle to like really sit down I mean, I focus on my studies, I focus on my studies, but I would say probably also a very average struggle for your average 21 year old in 2023. So I'm trying not to think too highly or too low of myself, but at the same time being realistic and trying to fix that problem. But I would say it's just that that's in reference to specifically the school I've also used as an opportunity to actually evangelize as well. So there's a couple of people in a number of my classes where I've talked to them maybe maybe very superficially, or maybe at other times very in-depth about the faith or just about what their beliefs are about God or about the world or about how things should be done. And that's been it's been a very fruitful opportunity. I recently had a person who reach out to me and want to pick my brain about certain topics and in a very like charitable kind way, I didn't feel like I was being badgered or abused or accused in any way. And so I was like, Well, this is interesting. We'll see. You will see kind of where this goes. And at the end of the class, because the classes ended and it's now it's, you know, moving on to spring classes. He said that he wanted to keep talking to me and we should get coffee sometime. And I was like, Sure, why not? I was like, You have my phone number. If you want to reach out, feel free to. I'm not going to say no. And I was I was intrigued. Like, I'm interested to see where this is going to go. So it's given a number of opportunities for evangelizing as well. Okay, that's great. I know your brother has said he he does that at his school as well. He's open to talk to people. I love that about him. And I thought he also had some pretty good ideas for a teenager, you know, about social media and about devices and things. I thought he had some pretty good ideas about that because it's a very distracting world. And Satan certainly doesn't want you to be a priest. And that's the thing as distraction, you know, of our prayer life and everything. Do you have any priestly role models Father Steve Daver Yeah. And Monsignor Sal, he's the pastor in a church in Gardena. I don't remember what the name of it is, but it's it's a, it's a tradition. Gardena And he did one of my interviews, and I actually recently had a dinner with him as part of the locations of ten weeks ago, just very pastoral. I didn't really talk to him too much, but just like from what I remember talking to him about and just like the feeling I got, being in his presence was like this is this is a guy I can really trust. This is a priest that I can really look up to. Then what about what about him that makes you say that? Well, like when you say pastoral, what what does that mean? It's like. Like Father Leon is also pretty. Well, he is. It's someone you can be in the presence of be comfortable with if you're relaxed and feel welcomed, while at the same time knowing that if you say something that maybe is a little out of line that you maybe won't like come down really harshly on you. But he's probably going to be like, I might give you a look because you'll probably know you probably should have said that. And he'll still be willing and able to like give you advice that would actually applicable to your situation while at the same time not judging you were being overly harsh. And that balance is basically everywhere in our faith. And that's something I've realized more recently, is there's always two extremes and there's always like that middle line we're supposed to walk. And that middle line is sometimes very, very difficult to do of willing to to correct someone, but at the same time being very warm and welcoming to anyone and everyone. Right. So that's good. Yeah, it's interesting. I'm very interested in people's role models and what draws them to people, you know, So that's interesting. What is the hardest part about where you are now in the process? I mean, you said you said the distractions, but the distractions, Yes. I would also say like the discipline and the discipline of making sure you're getting everything done, not just the schoolwork, but also a prayer, making sure you're exercising, getting enough sleep. Like just last week, there is the our lady of Guadalupe. And so I was serving day at the cathedral that Monday night. So it was midnight. I was serving at the cathedral and I had classes. The next day it was finals week, so I was very like a little stressed out about, okay, how am I going to get enough sleep? And I got probably three or 4 hours of sleep that night, the next night, going to out late again. And I was like, All right, this is this is a little stressful because I'm not going to have a lot of sleep. So you have to juggle not only being active in in the church, but also being active at school, also getting enough sleep and still working out and also getting like a parent. So there's just a lot to balance and trouble and the distractions obviously will help with that. Well, I feel like that's really prepping you for the priesthood because those men really have to juggle going to the hospital, doing saying masts, doing conversions. You know, there's so many things that they're constantly like sometimes Father Leon really over work. So so he had a weekend a month or two ago where I was thinking, Father, what are you doing? You're overbooking yourself because they were things that he's schedule. And in addition to the things that are not scheduled, you know so he pulled it off. But you know, I think that is prepping you for that. I would also add that this past Friday, I had a luncheon, there was a archbishops luncheon with the seminarians and the bishops. So most of the original bishops were there. Bishop Swarek, I don't even know how I pronounce his first name. Forgive me, Bishop, if you're listening. So we were having lunch with him and a couple of guys from the Santa Barbara region. And one of the things that exactly the question came up, it's like, how do you handle how do you handle the balance? Like where's most of your time spent as a bishop? He's like, well, most of it spent driving because he has to drive from one end of even just his small diocese as a sub diocese of the archdiocese. But he's like, you really have to like, be prudent in what you book yourself for because people give you so many invitations. And if you want to say yes to all of them, that's great. People will be able to get to see you. You got to know them. They'll come to like you a little bit more, look at to know you. But at the same time, you're going to be spending all of that time. You're going to get really tired. So you kind of have to have that balance. I think that's a really good point, especially coming from a bishop, too, now. Well, that's interesting. And what so far is your favorite part? Favorite part? I would say it's community by far by far, because while yes, it does have its struggles, the struggles also give you an opportunity to kind of change and also go on humility, like you say, maybe not intelligent comments in front of everyone and they all kind of just like shake their heads and like kind of maybe roll their eyes. It's like, okay, well, you probably shouldn't have said that. Maybe one of them, they're going to come talk to you and tell you, Hey, that kind of made me feel uncomfortable. But at the same time, that's an opportunity to grow in humility. As for just the pure joys of it, I would say that there's just ten guys. Yes. But there's so many diverse interests in among among those ten guys. So one guy likes Elvis a lot. He will listen to Elvis music on his record player very loudly and everyone in the hallway will be able to hear it. But it's great because you can always talk to the guy about music or about Elvis or the other guys like sports. So you can always talk to them about sports, basketball, football, soccer, and then other guys like movies. So you can always talk to those guys about, you know, whatever the new movie they came out is. And hey, you want to go see that movie together? And then you also have another guy who likes Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings and but he likes videogames. Star Wars. And so he you can talk to him about video games and such. And then one of the guys I like talking to about what he's always talking about, like the faith. So he'll he'll talk about movies. Yeah, he'll talk about music, will crack jokes with the guys. He'll, you know, maybe talk about sports a little bit. But at the same time, like, we'll talk about the faith for hours on end. He's a guy to go to. Yeah. So just that diversity of interests and being able to like have those different conversations and again you're you're in a group in school but you're able to be talking about God and in our world, like I always get so excited when I'm at work and we can be talking about God. I remember like my office and Gabriel Rivera's officer in the same floor, and there were times where we would be in the hallway and we would just be praying. And I would say, I don't think a lot of workplaces this happens, you know, And it's just it's so nice. That's one of the things, you know, like being around people with common interests, especially when it's the Lord, It's it's so nice. I know. I you know, I love to talk to my husband, Simon, about he's the only one I feel wants to be talking about God all the time. Maybe that's not true, but that's how I feel. And it's nice because, I mean, my family doesn't want to talk about God with me. And so I love that. I feel like I can just talk about God and feel good about it. And I just feel our world is just so negative about when you have faith and when you have God in your life and they're so against it and it's just doesn't feel good, you know? They all want to talk about whatever they want to talk about. So it must feel kind of nice to be in a group where you're feel free to talk about God and your feelings and you don't get made fun of about it. Yeah, it is. It is really nice. And in a way, I'm not trying to downplay or overplay it. I'm trying to hit exactly as it is. It's hard to have those conversations with everyone, especially at the Formation house, because not everyone is really open to that in a sense that if you're not really good friends with someone, maybe they're not they're not really talk to you about very vulnerable things. And so if you don't really know them that well, they're not really willing to talk about the faith at length or maybe in certain aspects of it because they don't know you that well. And maybe that's their own flaw. Maybe that's just you haven't put enough effort in. But it's it doesn't it doesn't happen all the time. But at the same time, if you want to have those conversations, you can't have them just you have to know who you want to talk to with them, who about those topics with, but also when and also like what you can talk about. It's just it takes prudence when you want to become a priest. Are there different orders and how does that go? So you have different orders. So you have like the Benedictines, you have the Franciscans, you have Norbert teens. You have as couple of others. This is a test, the Jesuits, and then there's offshoots from all of them. You have the Sisters of Charity. So the long, long short of it is Sisters of Charity are not priests. They're they're nuns. But so occasionally throughout the church's history, you've had different people that either themselves or just kind of them with a couple of other people have decided to start a group, priests or brothers or nuns that focused on a specific group of people to minister to them, or a specific maybe not virtue, but like way of living. And not that those are exclusive to that group, but they want to focus on them more. So you have, for example, Saint Benedict. He wanted to go live in the desert with a couple of other brothers and basically focus on prayer, asceticism, working and praying so or at Labora, praying and working. And so the Benedictine order is still around today, and they have certain things that they focus on. You also have the Franciscans, which are basically the exact opposite of the Benedictines. So they are working in like specifically in cities and in communities so that they can work with the poorest of the poor in that community. And so they don't work like the Benedictines, but they will minister to that group of people. Now, you'll have a Franciscan priest and you'll have a Benedictine priest, and they'll both be valid priests in the Catholic Church, but their orders will look different, their communities will look different. So in the Catholic Church, you do have different like groups and different different priests, but they're all still Catholic. They all still celebrate the same mass, the same sacraments. They're just their prayer might look a little different, where their practice of community or virtue might look a little different. But at the end of the day, like they're all still part of the Catholic Church. So if you want to be a diocesan priest, so that's your average everyday priest, then you would go to a diocesan seminary, which is your average seminary. But if it's a Carmelite seminary or a Benedictine seminary, then they'll clarify as an an active or as, you know, Jesuit or Franciscan. But your average priest is like a diocesan. So at what point do you kind of decide that, like, do you need to know that now? Or is that something as you go along, you can kind of decide where what path you're going to take or what path God is going to lead you to. So it's not something you have to decide at the outset. And I say that to clarify that very heavily here in a second. But let's say if you're calling to the to the priesthood or to celibacy, you want it that way, because I know people that have felt the calling of celibacy and then they go to a seminary and they don't feel at home, they're like, wait a second. But I thought I thought I was called priesthood because I felt called celibacy. It's like, well, just because you feel a call to celibacy does not mean you're called to the priesthood. So then they go to, say, a Benedictine monastery or they go to study with the Franciscans or the Jesuits, and then they feel at home with did something go wrong? No. They felt a call to the celibacy aspect, which is those communities have that those the celibacy, the community, the prayer. But they don't have that priesthood aspect where they're celebrating the sacraments are hearing confessions for. Let's see. Take me, for example. I'm going through three or four years down the road and I decide I want to go to serve with the Benedictines. Then I would leave formation here and I would go to the Benedictines. But I wouldn't be able to I guess it might be more difficult to get ordained and then become a Benedictine. That just might be a whole more difficult, complex process. I don't know exactly how that would what that would look like or how how that would work. But over it, over time, you're able to come or to leave formation have met yet. So don't have to to stay in formation until I become a priest. So if I wanted to turn out and go to serve elsewhere, I would be free to do that. So speaking of that, you haven't taken your vows yet. Are you at this stage allowed to have a girlfriend? So, no, because and I'll give you an analogy, if you take your average 21 year old guy and he goes to Mass and sees this really pretty lady who's also going to mass and she's very holy, he's like, I want to spend more time with her and discern marriage with this woman. Then it would be imprudent for him to also have three other women that he's also discerning marriage with. At the same time, it's like you take one relationship at a time and you discern that in or out. And so in seminary, it's I would say the very similar, if not the exact same, is you're not going to discern two relationships, three relationships at the same time. We want to discern, okay, is God calling me to be a priest? Yes or no? If it's a no, then I'll go discern maybe marriage or maybe going to certain to become a brother. But if God if God is call me to the priest, then I'll be someone to go there. So it would just so shift the balance. That's that's more like the theological aspect, I would say just the prudential aspect. I don't think I have the time for it. Right. And we've talked about about that in the priesthood episode. And also I believe in the Misconceptions episode with Deacon Don, the general consensus was like, you're saying your life would be divided and you wouldn't be able to give time to your wife and family because again, the priests are very busy. It is their life. It is their family. I mean, I can see it perfectly clear it was just a question because I think maybe some people might wonder and I do know that that's come up where we had a seminarian that is now engaged and, you know, we're happy for him, but I'm glad he figured that out. And I know I asked your brother if he was interested in becoming a priest, but he's interested in having a family. So and he said, you know, you never know. It might change. But that's what he's thinking now. I mean, it puts you a little bit in the hot seat right now. You're a very good looking guy for people who aren't seeing him out there in the world. He's very handsome, as is your brother. But is that something where you're not quite sure yet or you feel at this point you feel pretty sure that you'd rather devote your life to to the Lord? So not that I don't like the way that question was asked, but just like you can readjust it, I don't know how else to ask it. It's I would say at this point in time, at this point in my life, I've seen that the only door that the Lord has opened for me has been to the priesthood. Okay. And while, yes, I have met a couple of other young, attractive Catholic women whom I can totally see myself marrying this woman or, you know, having a bunch of kids and all the all the things living somewhere 80 years old, you know, being that old, you know, married couple that's been married forever. But at the same time, there's always part of that when I'm imagining that and I'm like maybe daydreaming in a way that might be taking up too much time. It should be studied instead. But there's part of my heart that says, no, that's not that's not everything the Lord has in store for you, right? So there's part of me that's like, No, that's just as happy on maybe on the outside. I think that would be an aspect of joy, like a deeper joy that would really be missing. And it's not because she's not attractive, she's not Catholic, it's not because I'm broken or or probably because I'm sinful, but also because the Lord has a different calling for me. And just that that verbiage is sometimes difficult to really pin down. Yeah, because I'm not going to go tell my brother like, like you shouldn't be, you know, good. Go get married, because ultimately marriage is unfulfilling. It's like, no, if he's called a marriage, he's great for marriage. I'm called a priest. I'm called the priest. Right. And the Lord will, Lord will make us happy. The Lord will satisfy us. Right? I assume what he does. Yeah, I agree with that. So I'm sorry about that. No, no, no, I'm sorry. I feel like that was a no. It's. It's okay. I was trying to be very respectful to you, just so I don't want to ask you any questions where I feel like I'm challenging that you want to be a priest because I'm all for it. And I do have an apology for you that maybe you don't remember, but I do. And I think about it all the time now, and I'm so sorry. So I'm making a public apology. Okay. So again, I'm a wedding coordinator and I'm naturally a what's it called, a matchmaker. That matchmaker. Yeah. I have this in my head all the time. My poor music director, I'm on him right now. I have somebody I'm really wanting him to say, Andrew. But I really have this girl that I'm interested in for him. But I remember I literally came up to you and said, my wedding coordinator, assistant she's so cute. Knew you guys. And you said, I want to be a priest. And I was like, And I told Andrew, my music director. I said that because Lori, you should have said that. And I said, Well, I didn't know, and I just thought you'd be a beautiful couple. So I apologize for that. Well, I mean, it's maybe I'll have Henry look at her. He was looking for a wife at Franciscan. Just. Just goes ahead. Yeah, but, I mean, I would also just say that, like, I. I have. I'm aware. Yes, I am. I'm good looking guy. I am. Yes. Aware that I'm not you know, that I do have a little bit of smarts. I am aware that I, you know, do take the faith quite seriously. And for some people that is going to be a lot of boxes checked. But at the same time, it's like, yeah, I go back to where is the Lord calling me? I've had a number of opportunities where it's like, this is a woman that I not only want to, but have the freedom to do that. But it's just no, the words calling me to something else. And there's obviously been a lot of work I've had to put into that. Right. There's obviously over the past couple of years, like I've been in the formation house for about six months now, not for years. So the time between high school graduating high school in 2020 and now has been a lot of formation, a lot of well, I'm just learning the pieces because of this reason. I don't know. Actually, that's not why I was doing Priest. I'm just learning the priest because of this reason and then kind of having to sort and sift through all those different wounds, all that brokenness, all that, you know, past junk baggage that I've had to be like, how do I try figure out this calling was potential calling in the midst in the face of all of this brokenness from my past. So it hasn't been easy, but at the same time, like the Lord still gives us the light in the darkness. Can you clarify a little bit more about your baggage and your brokenness? Because I think a lot of people in the world have those things that's not specific to you. But. But what do you mean by that? Yes. So I mentioned in middle school, I had obviously had middle school struggles. Part of that was just not knowing how to handle my emotions. Very had added temper as a child, and that kind of caused some problems. I would say it's uncommon for people to have excellent role models of what a man should be or what a woman to be, and how those relationships, maybe especially in the schoolyard, should go. And so going into high school, not obviously not being very, you know, mature because I'm a freshman in high school, but also having not having like be the best of role models, not that my parents were in any way bad, but just they were perfect. Right. And so not having those perfect role models being immature, not really knowing how to handle my emotions just caused a whole avalanche of problems in in high school. And I would say that was probably about average, more or less like roughly I was about average with the things I was struggling with. But at the same time, like once I graduated high school, some of those things cleared up a little bit. I was, you know, now working construction for two years with other guys and they're obviously machismo guys. So you've got they've got their own problems. They're not exactly being the most beneficial. But I was able to grow up a little bit and at the same time is still discerning that, right? So at the same time that I'm working, I'm working with these guys that are kind of machismo, I have a lot more of my freedom. I'm driving myself to work every morning. I'm earning my own money, but at the same time, I still have these past wounds, these past maybe relationships of friendships as well, these past wounds that just kind of come up in anyone's life. So just give a random example. Let's say you have a father who is maybe a little too encouraging, right? Not in a way that's creepy at all, but a little too encouraging. And so now you have this expectation that, you know, men in your life should be really encouraging when they don't give you that. You think, they're they're doing something like I'm doing something wrong right now. It's not because your dad's in perfect, right? Maybe that was a little bit of a personality defect, but it's not because he's a terrible sinner and it's not because these other men in your life are just horrendous people that they're not encouraging you. It's just that's kind of sometimes how the cards are laid. That's kind of how things happen. And so now you have to figure out your vocation, maybe like different relationships, maybe with a significant other or maybe with, you know, your your brothers in the context of this wound that kind of just has has been given to you and you have to sort through all that. And I would say there's a number of things that I can point to in my own life where it's like I had something similar like that happened and now I have to figure out, okay, does God want me to be a priest because God wants me to be a priest, or do I want to be a priest because I'm really afraid of getting married. Right. And and then I have to, like, figure that out. Okay. Well, why actually do I want this? And does it mean he wants this is a God who wants us to. What does God wanted this for me. And I also want this. Or does God want something else for me? And I want something. And it just takes time. It takes time. And that's something that can even be done in the seminary. It's part of formation. But in my my, my own personal life, I just wasn't ready to take that step yet. I was still too afraid. I was like, I do not feel comfortable enough to really take that step. But yeah, that whole story of the past couple of years might be like the enough, enough context for a whole other episode. So yeah, I think that's kind of the similar thing when people are deciding to get married and we help them in the marriage prep program and everything because you have to figure out why do you want to get married? And it is lifelong and it's not like a secular, you know, just civil marriage. So you have to really figure out why you want to get married. It's not about the wedding. The wedding is great, by the way. I do a good wedding, but it's about the marriage, you know? So, yeah, that that makes sense. Right? And also, he molds us. You know, I love that analogy of, like, him molding us. And I always feel like things are being chipped away. The dirty stuff that needs to be broken off so that you can get down to the really good quality love and deep commitment, whether you're a priest or not, you know, to have that commitment to give up worldly things and worldly feelings. So, you know, I'm all for that. I support you and and I. I won't matchmaking anymore. I, I, you know, I love I love the story about Father Matthew when he went to a retreat, I believe is what he said or some sort of thing like that. And he had a girlfriend and they were sitting there and she could tell like they both started crying because it happy tears. But she really knew that he had this calling and he felt it and she supported that. I love that story because he's also a very up and coming, very handsome, smart guy. And so, you know, I just I just think that's an interesting factor, not to say anything about. I mean, I know you're not saying it in a prideful, boasting way. I think it's just like, you know, it's just a good question. So, anyway, thank you for I'm sorry, but thank you. Thank you. Okay. So what advice would you give to someone who is also interested in pursuing the priesthood? Like, what would you say? A very good question. Very good question. So three things. One, got to have that prayer life. If you don't have a solid prayer life or a consistent prayer life and you're not focusing on that, it's going to be a lot more difficult for you to be able to hear God's voice because you're not practicing that every single day. You're not practicing sitting down and trying to hear God's voice or trying to grow in your relationship with God. So step one have a strong part life, step two is don't discern alone. Our vocations are not just for us to kind of figure out by ourselves and everyone else to kind of just figure out when we tell them it's we're supposed to be in community. And so like I said before, it once you've kind of decided, okay, I want to discern this more fully, you have to at some point tell your pastor, Pastor, I'll get you in touch with serve up regional vocations director and then you'll kind of he'll kind of help you with the rest the next steps. And then the third piece of advice I would say is having that patience and peace. If there's any fear or concern or worry, and if it's stronger than those if it's like anxiety and you're having an idea about this that is not from God, right? Like there's a fear of the Lord, but there's also just a worldly fear and if you feel that worldly fear in your in your soul, in your heart, you're living that out, Like pray for that peace. If you're worried about like, if I don't get in the seminary this year, I'm not going to have anything the thing to do and, then it's going to be terrible in my life. So it's like, All right, take a deep breath. Relax is going to be okay. God's going to take care of you in any other relationship. Let's say a man is wanting to get married to this woman and he's really anxious about like not just getting things wrong, but like, if I don't marry her tomorrow, that thing is going to be terrible ten years down the road, it's like, all right, you need to calm down, right? It's going to be okay. See, I just to recap, having that strong prayer life, but also reach out to your vocation director, your pastor, your pastor first, because if you reach the vocation director first, your pastor might feel like you're going over his head and it's not a good idea. And also, just a second note on that real quick. If your parents maybe aren't, like really comfortable with that idea, you're not comfortable bringing that bringing that topic up with them just yet. Like, that's okay. I was very blessed to have my parents be very supportive of that. There's a number of people that I know that their parents were not very supportive or they were really supportive to the point where it's almost like pushy. And so I maybe at the outset, don't be so worried about that. You can you can talk to your pastor and revocation director, but at some point your pastor is going to introduce you to the parish. As someone who's discerning the priesthood, you probably don't want that to be the first time your parents are finding out that you're not studying for priesthood. So and then the last ones have that piece, have the patience to have that trust that God's going to take care of you if you don't have that. So I can't ask God to give that to you because you shouldn't be anxious about this. This shouldn't be something losing sleep over. So. Right. I love that. You know, again, you're going to end up being a role model. I think you already are. And while I do and I also know you're very well thought of in in the church, I know Father Leon really is supporting you. I've really witnessed Father Leon being very supportive of you. And I think he is excited. If Father Leon gets excited, I think he's excited about you discerning the priesthood. So anyway, I really thank you for coming today. I really hope that this will reach out to many people's ears that are considering this or know people that would introduce this episode to them so that they can hear out of your mouth what your path has been. Because people can talk all day long about stuff. But when somebody is going through something themselves, I think that really helps other people because if somebody is just talking to them and saying, I want my son to be a priest, or it's hearing it out of your mouth, and this is a process. I mean, this is going to be a long process. I'd love to have you back every now and then to see how it's going, I think. What do you think about that? I think that would be great. I think that we have to work on the schedule, but I should have the shot at the time and I'd be willing to as well because it is going to be a long process. I do think that that would be important to see like how you're doing and where you're at and your mindset and all that. So I do really appreciate you coming. I support you. I'm so excited for you. And anyway, was there anything any last thoughts that you can think of that I didn't ask you a pray. Pray the rosary if you can. If you're not Catholic, it's going to be okay. Just keep searching for the truth. Hopefully God got to find you the truth. Find you. That's awesome. Well, thanks again. And thank you. Love you. Bye. Thank you for joining me today. Now out and be a bright light in someone's life. And remember, be focused, be faithful and be fresh. Fresh Catholic is produced, edited and recorded at WonderMouse Studios in Ventura, California.