"Hitting the Mark of Discipleship" with Author, Archer & Theologian, Sean McVeigh - 66

In this episode, Lori is joined by Special Guest: Author, Archer & Theologian, Sean McVeigh!  They discuss his book, "Become a Better Archer and Use It to Avoid Sinning". It is a rich, insightful and thought provoking book about drawing people to the Catholic faith and to Christ and His church, as well as a guide to avoid Sinning and how to hit the bullseye of Discipleship.

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Transcript

0:02

Welcome to Fresh Catholic, a podcast for those who are converting, reverting or simply want a fresh perspective of the Catholic faith to help them to open their hearts and minds to become closer to the love and goodness of Christ. My daily prayer is that I will be a bright light to others, to be filled with the love and light of Christ, so that when people look at me, they see him radiating out from me for his glory. Hello and welcome. I'm Lori Balderas, and I'm so happy you're here. Happy Easter. Are you feeling refreshed and joyous? I hope so. Please help support our fresh Catholic ministry. I know I ask this every week, but I'm going to keep asking because if you don't ask, you can't get help. We need you to please help our mission of drawing people to Christ and back to the church. In order to keep this podcast going with production costs and equipment we need to purchase. We need to take this to the next level and we really need your financial support. So please go to our website, fresh catholic.com. Check it out and see all the ways you can support us. You could become a Patreon, which ranges from $5 a month to $250 a month. So there's something in there for everybody, and it would really help go to the bottom of any page on the website. There's a little Patreon icon you can't miss it. All you have to do is click and figure out which level you want to do and support that way. Or you could become an advertiser where I do ads on my podcast for you, for your business, or you could be a sponsor of mine, or invite me to do a speaking event for your group. You could shop at our online store with our exclusive, fresh Catholic items that Simon designed, and they're all faith based, so check them out. There's something for everybody, and with Mother's Day and Father's Day coming up, you might just find that gift you're looking for. Please purchase fresh Catholic coffee. We have 17 flavors roasted and shipped the same day. Click on the website. You will see how to order it. Order it! Yummy, yummy and I'll keep you awake and fresh. The key of the website is just to scroll around scroll scroll scroll. And last but not least, please listen. Rate. Five stars would be wonderful. Review and share my weekly podcast, Am fresh Catholic Daily, the daily readings and also follow me on Instagram and Facebook at Fresh Catholic. Now I am very lucky to have a wonderful new guest today Sean McVeigh. He is an author amongst other things, and his book is called Become a Better Archer and use it to avoid sinning. What could that be about? Oh my gosh, I can't wait to ask him and find out. And I hope that you will be inspired to go purchase his book and read it for yourself. I'm almost done with it, to be honest with you, but I'm going to encourage you to check it out yourself. So without further ado, let me give you some background on Sean McVeigh. He was raised Catholic in rural southeast Pennsylvania. He had a massive conversion experience in which he rejuvenated his Catholic faith and relationship with God while studying environmental science at Penn State University, engaging fervently in Catholic activities. He served as a leader in prayer groups. He was an RCIA sponsor, Eucharistic minister, and religious education teacher when others suggested he become a priest. Sean joined the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal in New York City after college. Ultimately, he realized it wasn't his true calling. Afterward, he taught religion, directed youth ministry, got married, and became a proud father of four, all while nurturing his Catholic faith. Driven by a passion for evangelization, Sean authored Catholic books, earned a master's degree in theology, and held roles like Director of Adult Faith formation, and is currently Chancellor for the Knights of Columbus. Also, he serves as a Pastoral Minister of Discipleship at a Catholic church in Iowa. Sean's expertise in archery and hunting, cultivated from childhood and later as a semiprofessional bow hunter, led him to create an instructional YouTube channel. Sean's outdoor Adventures with over 100,000 subscribers. He's also a certified archery instructor through USA archery, using his platform to promote prayer, the gospel, and ethical living. His books, including works on hunting and Catholic evangelization, can be found on his websites. Catholic guest speaker.com and Sean's Outdoor adventures.com. Which I will have in the show notes. So today we welcome Sean McVay as our guest. Thank you. Well Sean down with a lot. And you know what. You had more to tell. We just we just like cut that down. So I have time to talk to you for heaven's sakes. Yes sir. Anyway. Thank you. Thanks for having me I appreciate it. Wonderful. And you're in Iowa. So we have a guest from Iowa yet? Yeah, I'll be the first. We have a worldwide audience. Last time we checked, we were at 46 countries. Nice. That's pretty. Congratulations. Thank you. So, one thing I want to tell my listeners so that they kind of understand, you know, how you and I came to be sitting here today is that I get people send me things all the time. I get emails from people wanting to be guests. There's all the various reasons I hear from from people. You had sent us an email saying that you'd written a book, and you wanted to send us the book, and you did, like very quickly sent us the book, and you even hand autographed my book, and you wrote me a note inside. And so I remember Simon and I got the book and we were saying, well, what is this about? Because it was kind of a, you know, different way of presenting, evangelizing, you know. Yeah. So when people are starting to read your book, you're very clear about, if you want this out of this book, read these chapters. If you want this other thing, read these chapters. So I really followed what you said because I knew you were sending it to me because I'm a devout Catholic. You weren't saying that to me, to teach me about archery. Yeah. So there's there's basically two books in one. So I told you how to get to the Catholic version. That's right. So you were very specific, and you said, read chapters one, four and five. So I took your advice, and I must admit, I haven't I haven't made it to chapter five yet. I can't wait. I know you told me that's the best part of the whole book. So I think the book so far is so great. I'm like, what could be better? Well, it's not that. Well, I just want to clarify that it's not. The chapter five is the best. Actually, chapter four is the best. That chapter five is like the icing on the cake. Oh I see. Okay, good. Okay. Well, I'm still excited about it. So I started reading it and the first chapter is all about, you know, your backstory, how you got into archery and I can see as I'm reading it where you're kind of going, I don't know where you're going, but I can see that it's it's leading us to know why. You know, you are who you are and why you wanted to write this book. So I read that, and I thought it was very interesting because I love people's back stories. I think that you can't know somebody unless you know their backstory. So I found it to be very interesting. And then when I got to chapter four, I was just thinking, wow, first of all, there's so much about you that is similar to me. Yeah. And I was even reading things and thinking, oh, I have said that or I think that, but I've never said that. And it's like word for word. And it was kind of eerie. I was like, yeah, well, this is like my kind of guy because I just thought that was really interesting. So it like pulled me in even more. Because you're a beautiful writer. I really appreciate how you write. You're very knowledgeable. You're very strong in your faith. You're very intelligent. You can tell I'm very educated in this. So I'm really enjoying everything about the book. I just think it's a pleasant surprise. I don't. Just to be honest with you, I was thinking, I don't know, this is going to be good or not. That's how I felt about Simon when I first saw. I was like, it's going to be really good. And I was so pleasantly surprised. Anyway, not that it was not a slam, but I was just like, no, I don't know where this is going to go. And and it's just I'm just very impressed. I encourage all my listeners to get your book, read it for themselves. I feel like we could sit down for the next month talking every single day, and probably wouldn't even crack open what what we could talk about. Because there's a lot in this book. Yeah. It's loaded. It is. It's very, very well done. And I'm just very pleasantly surprised. So I like I say, I encourage my my list. Here's the book so everybody can see what it looks like. Of course if you're not watching you don't get to see it. So maybe that's not all. I'll post a picture of it. I'm just always seeking out to learn more and more and more. You can never know it all, and it's kind of like your version of of things that I just think are very well done. So I can't say enough about it. So I just really thank you people to get themselves and then follow the, the guideline of if you want to learn a lot about archery, you read the whole book. I mean, I can't imagine why my listeners wouldn't be interested in the Catholic part, but. Right. You know, the definitely reading chapter one and four and five, I think it's very doable and and very important. And so I thought that it was interesting that we have very similar philosophies and beliefs, except for I was telling you in our pre-interview, you're much more brave than I am, and I'm trying to become more and more brave. But I just like that you're very firm and you're like, hey, stop! Read this, ponder. You know, let's move on. I like that. I think, you know, the way that you're you're trying to get this these points across to people are excellent. Thank you. I just appreciate that you're more brave and firm than I am, but I'm working on it. There you go. There. You're inspiring me. Yeah. We got to be people of courage. I do feel like in our Catholic faith, there are people that are very wishy washy or trying to be too politically correct. Yeah, and I really struggle with that. I think some Catholics though, it's it's even more that they they don't necessarily know their faith well enough to where they would be able to explain it to somebody. So a lot of people, they just they want to punch the ticket. I went to mass, you know, I did my weekly obligation and I don't really want to be bothered beyond that. There are there are a lot of Catholics in that, in that kind of group. And that's obviously that's not being a disciple of Jesus, you know, and that's really I guess if I can say, the reasons why I wrote the book, I mean, it was kind of a twofold one is to reach people who aren't Catholic and to try to inspire them to want to be Catholic. And the other was to reach Catholics, to want to inspire them, to want to be better Catholics, you know, and that in that regard and, the archery thing, I've been doing archery since I was four years old and I'm was 50 years old. I'm going to be 50 this year. And so I've been doing it for a long time, 46 years, and I'm pretty good at it. And I'm also pretty good. Hunter. as well. And people know that because they watch my videos and stuff. And, when I discerned in the religious order, like, what's my vocation? Like? God, what are you calling me to? I discovered, like, I've never felt a calling from God to be here. It's just like people told me they thought I should be here. So I was like, okay, well, maybe I missed something. Maybe I'm supposed to do that. And so that's why I went to find out. And I'm so glad I did, because I learned a lot about myself and, and and also about my faith in doing that. but ultimately, while I was there, I read, some stuff from Saint Mary's of Leisure and, one of the sentences I read and I can't remember which writing it was, maybe it was her story of a soul. Maybe it was a different, work. But she said, God does not inspire unrecognizable dreams. And when I realized, like, I don't think I'm called the religious order. So then what am I supposed to do for God? Like, how do I live my life for God? I just started to look through my life like, what are the big standout things in my life that I've really felt passionate about or drawn to or wanted to do? And, and I was like, you know, before my big sort of conversion experience in college, which you mentioned in the introduction, I wanted to be a professional honor. That was it, you know, and I was like, well, how can I do that for God? You know? And as I kind of wrestled with that, I was reading a Catholic magazine and one of the statistics in the magazine. Now, this is going back into the 1990s. So this is back in VHS video days. This is when this is back when they had video rental stores. That's how that's the place you got videos. This is so so I got to take our listeners back to the old days and so back then, everybody that wanted to watch a movie at home, they either rented it or they bought it, you know, and most people will just joined a video rental store and rented videos. So anyhow, in the magazine, it said the highest source of revenue for remote towns is the rental of pornographic videos during hunting season. Okay said right in the magazine. And I was like, oh my goodness, that is like horrendous. But being in the religious order, I was helping out, running these retreats all the time. There was men's retreats, youth retreats, and all these guest speakers at the men's retreats were always talking about that issue for men, the pornography thing, and that you need a life of prayer to get out of that. So all that came together and I felt like, here's how I can use my gifts for God. I can try to use my gifts to reach men who like archery and hunting, and try to reach them with a with a message of prayer of God, of faith, anything. Because there's a lot of guys out there who will skip church on Sunday so they can go hunting, you know, or they just don't even go at all. So who's going to reach them? How are we going to reach them? We got to find them where they're at. They're in a tree somewhere. They're in the woods somewhere. It all sort of came together over time and I was like, okay, Lord, I want to try to make hunting videos for you. You know, I want to try to make videos to reach men. I started to write, you know, in the background, you know, I was writing different books and stuff as time went on with archery. So here's here's an interesting little detail. So when I was doing youth ministry, for a Catholic church in 2002. So this is after I came home from the religious order. I was there for about three and a half years, came home. That's when I did like teaching high school, religion and all that, just trying to figure out how do I want to live for God. You know? so here I am. I'm a I'm doing youth ministry, and one of my volunteers actually told me something that I didn't even know, which was the word sin as we use it actually is an archery term, and it means the distance. You missed the mark. And I was like, it just all everything hit me. So all at once when he said that because of what I know from my life in archery. So fast forward years went by. I began to get, I started a YouTube channel later on, and I started getting all these followers for archery and hunting. So I decide to write a book for these people. So I start writing this archery instruction book. And then I was like, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to do a spin off here. So it's an archery instruction book to reach these people who are interested in. And then I'm going to do a chapter at the end. It talks about how we can use techniques in archery to help us avoid sinning in life, because there are techniques you use in archery to avoid the sin, which is the distance you miss the bullseye. You do all these different things to hit the bullseye, to hit the mark. And so I wrote the book. I wrote the archery instruction in the beginning and this sin chapter at the end, like little techniques that we use in archery that we can use in life. And then I was like, wait a second. So I'm going to throw this in here too, because, you know, for people who are trying to discern God's will and who are trying to live for the Lord, I want to remind you that God doesn't just give us an outline to follow, and we go from A to Z. There's a lot of times where we're on A, the next thing we know, we're on em. But then we got a back up to the letter G. You know, we're all over the place to get to the end. So God didn't just, like, inspire me with the full context of this book from the get go, but it is an evolution over time. And so when I kind of finished the original draft, I was like, hey, this is nice, but what if my reader, because I got readers? I mean, I got viewers all over the world as well. I even got people writing to me from China, you know? So like, there's a lot of people who don't even know who Jesus is or believe in Jesus. So that's when I was like, how is this going to matter to somebody who doesn't even know the truth about Jesus? So that's when I was like, I got to give a rundown on salvation history. So the first couple of chapters one, two and three, chapter one is my little intro to archery, and how I rate was raised in archery. And there's some key ideas on how to deal with this sin in archery. In the end, it's by developing a what's called a shot sequence, and then chapters two and three is real technical. If you want to learn archery chapter two and three, it's going to tell you what kind of equipment to buy, how to set it up, how to figure out like what your draw like, what you're draw, all those details. If you don't know anything about archery, you can pick up this book and you can go through it and you can learn archery. But then chapter four is where I give the rundown on salvation history. And it's hard core Catholic. I punch the reader between the eyes and I basically say, look, my full intention with this publication is to inspire you to want to be Catholic. Be clear on that. If you don't even want to consider being Catholic, you probably should skip this chapter because I'm really going to ram the point home. That's why I like it, because I think you're you're abundantly clear. So that it's not that you're leading them into something and then going, oh, well, this isn't what I wanted to read. You're very clear about it. And also, when you do that, maybe this was your purpose. Or one of the purposes is when somebody says, don't look, don't read it. You don't want to read it. It makes so much to read. Well, I mean, yeah, I mean that would be great if that's the reason. But my full intention was to give clear warning so that the reader isn't, like, surprised you know what I mean? Like, hey, I wasn't expecting this, you know, and because I'm a content creator, I make videos and stuff. I've been doing it for probably 13, 14 years, and you hear all the complaints, you know, everyone's quick to make comments on videos and stuff. And so over the years, you know, I've incorporated Catholic stuff into my videos. And, I mean, I've lost thousands of subscribers in a week's time just because of pumping out Catholic content in archery and hunting videos. And I don't care. I mean, go ahead and leave. But you know what? The seeds have been planted. And although you don't want to see me because of, you know, that association, the Holy Spirit's got something to work with. Now, there are seeds that he can water and give some sunlight to. And maybe ten years from now, that same person who unsubscribed because I put Catholic content in the video, that's the piece the Holy Spirit needed to get the ball rolling. However, because of those experiences, I know the reactions of people and how they can get if they're not expecting it. So I take it as valuable learning lesson. You know, all the all the years of creating stuff and getting berated by people for including Catholic stuff, we should expect it carry the cross every day. Jesus said, you know, and we're going to be persecuted, and we should pray for the people who are persecuted, and we should count ourselves blessed if we're persecuted for the name of Jesus. And if we're not being persecuted for the name of Jesus, then we're probably not doing something right. I just had that conversation with a woman I take communion to today, because every time when I take her communion, she says, are things getting any better for you? And Simon and I go, well, you know, we're still trudging along. And she goes, well, that just means you're close to the Lord, you know, and I know, I know that it's it's hard, but it's true. But yeah, I so I did one thing I wanted to say also about the book is the title Become a Better Archer and use that to avoid sinning. That in itself was intriguing because Simon and I were like, what does this have to do with each other? We were, you know, very curious. So I'm glad you you explained that about. Yeah. You know, the word sin is very interesting. I'm very interested in why people sin and how people get tempted and sin. That's something that just, I find, you know, the weakness of humans, you know, we all sin, but there's all different levels of it and there's all different, you know, lengths of time and, and things like that. But people really get caught up in it. And so it's really interesting. And then like I was saying in chapter four, it is so factual and, and I do really appreciate the knowledge you have, because I do think it makes it very legitimate to me, your book, because it's not just your opinion, these are facts. And then also your opinion is in there, which I also value. And so I think that's good. But it also comes from, you know, a lot of life experience. What I really do with chapter four is first I lay out God's the Creator and he created everything. And I also bring in the reality of angels and the fallen angel we call Satan. And that's what led to the temptation of Adam and Eve, the original sin. And then in order to deal with that, God implemented a plan to save us. And so that's where I go deeply into the sacraments from the Old Testament all the way through. And it's fulfillment in the New Testament, and how the sacraments are the avenue for sanctifying grace that God uses to save us, basically. And so that's why the book is so Catholic and factual, as you said, is. So there's a guy who is a follower of my channel on my Shaun's Outdoor Adventures YouTube channel, and anyone that's listening in case you decide to look it up, it's spelled S e, and my name's Sean Sheehan, so Sean's outdoor adventures. so this guy is Catholic and he read the book. He's very involved with his parish, and he wrote to me, he's like, Sean, I'm Catholic. I've read this the Second Vatican Council documents, I've read this. I've read that he's going on a list of things he's read that are Catholic. And he said, and this is actually the most concise presentation of Catholics understanding of salvation that I've ever read. And I was like, humbled by the guy's comment. But I also appreciated it because I spent hours and weeks and months and years just refining the presentation so that it was razor sharp so that it would execute the plan in the sense of it would it would cut the reader to the heart. And I'm thinking about a lot of non-Catholics especially. I want them to recognize the truth for what it is, and then to be able to to look in the mirror and say, you know what, Lord, I see it. I see what the truth is here, and I know that it's not currently what I'm following, which means I got to make some changes and that's uncomfortable. You know, that's that's very uncomfortable when I, I try to present it in a way to bring them comfort in the fact that it's, it's by doing those challenging things that we do hit the mark. You know, we do encounter Jesus more profoundly than even before, because there's a lot of great, amazing Christians in the world who don't have what we have in the sacraments. I mean, come on, we receive the totality of God in the Eucharist. That's like utterly mind blowing. And you think of all these wonderful Christians out there who don't you stand somebody next to me right now, like here I am, I receive Jesus in the Eucharist. I didn't get to go today, but I went yesterday. I receive Jesus and that means I have complete union with Almighty God in my body, in my soul, everything. He stands somebody next to me who loves Jesus and talks all about Jesus. They don't have physical union with Almighty God. We can't leave them there. We got to do everything we can so that they have what we have. And that's what the book is about. That's my effort is to try to get that guy who loves Jesus. It's not enough. There's so much. There is infinitely more for you. If you don't have the Eucharist, there is literally infinitely more for you. Because God is infinite and he is available to you in the Eucharist. And that's what we got to bring him to. So like, you know, and then you mentioned about like, I'm a little more courageous, I guess. But I got to tell you, like when I finished this book, which I did, I didn't like. I was saying before, I didn't sit down intending it for it to be what it became, but when it was done, it was like the gloves were off. Like I had a I had a good level of courage to begin with, but when the book was done, I was like, off the chart. I was like, I don't care who it is, I don't care who you are. I'm I'm ready to go. I'm ready to do whatever I can to help you desire to be Catholic like I am. One of your general themes is, why wouldn't Christians want to learn more about Jesus? Like. Like you say, they love Jesus. They claim to love Jesus. They do love Jesus. But I've often said, I'm not saying this about them. I'm saying this about myself. When I became Christian, I thought it was great. I loved being Christian. I thought it was wonderful and great. And now that I look back on it, I think, oh, it was just such a watered down version for me. I have a funny quick story. So when I was married before my my brother, I remember that from the other podcast, one of your podcasts, my, my brother in law and his wife are ultra Christian. Okay. And this was when I was a Christian, but they were too much for me, and they used to just be pressuring me all the time. And I was already a Christian, but they were just pressuring me all the time and repelled me. And so cut two years later when I become Catholic and I had not seen that sister in law in in years, and she and I went on a walk, and this was the woman that used to harp on me. You know what? When are you going to go to church? You should go to church more blah blah, blah, blah, blah. And so then we're on the walk and so. And then I'm saying, well, now I'm devout Catholic and I go to mass every day and I do it. So it wasn't like a contest. It just she stopped. She stopped like she had nothing more to say to me because I'm, like super saturated with with Jesus and church. And, you know, I just I live it all day, every day. I don't turn it off. And I and it's just constant. And I did think that that was really interesting in your book where you ask a lot of questions, you know, like, like what you just said, why, you know, if you're standing next to me and I have the full Jesus inside my body, why wouldn't you want that? You know, you ask a lot of questions like that to the reader. It to me was like, I guess that's assuming, you know, that your reader maybe isn't Catholic or has turned away from the church for a while or whatever. And and you're posing these questions where maybe people haven't asked them that before, or will where you will say, this is the facts, why can't you embrace that? And what I find is there's a lot of Christians that that's kind of their main platform is to be combative and constantly challenging what we are doing. That's one of the things I struggle with, is I don't want to fight people about this. If we all love Jesus, great, all we're saying is maybe take it another step where it, you know, the sacraments are such a major part where it's just so rich. You know, we as Catholics, we play defense. You know, we just defend and we don't necessarily go out of our way to to get them the question, like what? You know, I mean, and that's why there's so many questions in the book. But in another sense, it's us playing offense for once. Like, I took an offense here and I go out and challenge them and in the most polite way I possibly could. I tried to be careful with the wording, and it may not always. I mean, there may be somebody who will take it the wrong way. It's not meant the wrong way. But, I mean, it's meant gently. It's meant lovingly. It's meant to hopefully inspire somebody to want this for themselves. But it's also I ask the questions because there's a lot of times they're so busy asking questions. They have taken so many things for granted that are incorrect, that if we can pause for a minute and address some of those, that'll help them realize, well, wait a second, maybe I'm not right like I thought I was. Maybe I do need to take a look at it. And it's in doing that there's the like, okay, wait a second. Now, one of the other benefits for somebody who practices archery in this book is when you practice archery, you can see that almost every single time you shoot a bow. You cannot do it perfectly almost every single time. Now here you are doing everything you can to be hitting the mark perfectly and you just can't do it. So then I take that concept. I say, now when when it comes to theology, is it possible that even though you're doing your best, you weren't hitting the mark? Is that possible? Because a lot of the Christians that I've run into, they don't even have the concept that they could be wrong, which prevents them from honestly asking some of these questions. And so I had the opportunity to leverage that understanding with these people so that they could see more clearly for themselves. Like, wait a second, I can never hit a bullseye. So maybe what he's got to say here has a little truth to it, and that maybe I need to step back and realize maybe I am missing the mark a little bit and I need to take a decent look at this. So. So that's one of the neat things that is doubly powerful about this book. For someone who practices archery, is they have something they can clearly associate with. As far as I'm doing my best and I can't do it, so maybe I need to get some advice here. Maybe I need to listen to somebody else and what they have to say about it. So I basically show them, look, I can do that for you in archery. And guess what else? I can do that for you in theology too. And so the book has for somebody who's already doing archery and is it close to the Lord or even is but isn't Catholic? It's a very powerful book for anybody who's listening. I sent this book to a few people and then they didn't respond. I was like, no, let me be. I got a contact. If you'd be like, I, I sent it to father Mike Schmitz. I've sent it to Bishop Robert Barron, you know, asking them to please take a look at it again, not because of me, but because of God. God's going to lead me to this idea. God's going to put it all together. I'm just an average guy who he did it with and and thanks to you, you were actually willing to give it a chance. So thank you and all the listeners. You should give Lori a big high five and a thumbs up and thank her for being open to the Holy Spirit and a willingness to give it a little listen. So thank you. Oh, you're very welcome. That's that's very nice. Yeah. I discerned certain things, but I wanted to give it a chance. I was skeptical about it and I was like, well, we'll see. And then I thought, no, I'm going to give it a chance because I just felt that need to. I mean, I've been having things like that happen lately where something will come up and I could have said no to something and I've said yes instead. You know, you should try to say yes more than no and in a reasonable way. But sure, I was intrigued by it. And then, like I say, I think, you know, I'm learning a lot from it. And I'm back to kind of how you wrote it. I also believe that when you're writing it, it's very digestible to read. what you're telling me isn't drawn out. It's very concise, and I appreciate that because sometimes, you know, when you're reading, like, legal documents and your eyes gloss over and you just were like, can I just have if you were to take out the parts that actually humans can read, it's probably a one page thing out of 60 pages. So I felt like this book I was, I I'm reading it and it's very I totally get it. It's very reader friendly. I'm learning a lot. I love the fact you're asking questions, because I do find that people I won't even say what kind of people? All people have this thing I think they do where they're set in their ways, they're going to do what they're going to do, and they don't. They don't want to hear, you know, they're very close minded. I feel, and they're kind of in the corner with their arms crossed like a defiant two year old or teenager. And it's like, Simon is really good at this. Simon is a question asker. Okay. So, you know, why do you feel that way? What, what what do you think makes you feel that way? You know, and I think it's good because you're posing questions. And people are reading this in the privacy of not being with a, a mob mentality where people around them say, we're not going to read this book. You know, they're reading it in their own time. And if they're reading it, you what you do stop and you go, I wonder what I think about that. I mean, I'm not saying that when I'm reading it because I'm pretty much on board with what you're saying. I don't I'm not disputing what you're saying, but I do think you're posing really good, valid questions. Thought provoking questions. And I think that's what we need, because people have it very set in their heads about Catholics. one of the things that like, freaks me out is when, when people act like we're sinister. I can't even wrap my mind. Right? I know that comes from somewhere, but because I love being Catholic so much and I love Jesus so much, when people have that reaction, I always think, what do you think we're going to do? I just came across a lady the other night at the Easter Vigil, and she was, I think she was Methodist. She was there to support her grandson, but she was very resistant. And her grandson asked her, I'm going to become Catholic. What do you think, grandma? And she said, well, I think we all end up in the same place. And I said, well, God willing, yeah, she didn't like that. I don't know if that was a yeah, I just she kept referring to Catholics in such a negative way to me. And I'm thinking, well, what's wrong with us? I read, I don't, I don't understand it, but I do felt the Holy Spirit drew me to for you to reach out to me and for for me to read it. And hey, my father Mike and Bishop. And their loss is my gain. Yeah. There you go. All I got you out one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're the first you can say, yeah. If I ever become anything you can say I was the first. I was the first person who recognized to give this guy a chance. But, but it, you know, I also I wanted to just comment too on the, the, the woman, the Methodist woman. And, you know, she said we're all going to the same place. You said that you hope and I, I agree, we all hope that, but one thing that a lot of people don't I'd say recognize is that God himself has asked us to do things according to his will, and he's asked us to do specific things. And if you're not doing what the father has asked you to do, that I can't be the judge. And I'm not going to be the judge. But I want to caution people against that way of thinking like it's it's a dangerous way of thinking to say we're all going to the same place. And it's as long as you believe in Jesus, it's all good. Because we're not the judge. But Jesus makes it clear in the scriptures that those who do the father's will are the ones who go to heaven. And you know Matthew chapter seven, I believe it's verses 22 and 23. He is it is a you know, it's a little representation of this. So he says, not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my father will enter. And there will be those who say to me on that day, did we not do mighty deeds in your name? Did we not cast out demons in your name? And he will say, depart from me. I never knew you. So let's think about that for a minute. Jesus is talking about someone who did mighty deeds in the name of Jesus, cast out demons in the name of Jesus. But because they didn't do the father's will, they didn't go to heaven. So again, I, I, I avoid being the judge. I am not the judge, but I am someone to caution my brothers and sisters out there to say, look, this isn't just a free ride. It isn't a matter of saying, hey, I believe in Jesus and I believe in him. However, I want to believe in him. That's not how it works. I'm a father of four, as you mentioned, and when my kids don't do the things I ask, it makes me miserable. Like it really hurts. Like I asked them to do things for a reason. Like maybe pick up after yourself because we all carry our weight, you know, we all clean up after ourselves, and when you don't, the house looks like a mess and it's just awful, you know? And so there's all kinds of things every day that I'm reminded of what it feels like, what it how it hurts when your children don't do the things you asked them to do. Now, let's let's attach that to God our father. So God our Father has asked us to do things a certain way. And if we're not pursuing his way and we're only pursuing our own way, those are the people who are going to be shocked on the day of judgment. Those are the people who Jesus are going to say, I never knew you, and it's because you weren't actually striving to know what God's will was. You were just doing it. You're you took in some stuff, said, okay, I'll believe in Jesus, but then you did it your way. And so again, I'm not the judge. God's the judge. And I do hope that everyone goes to heaven. I don't want anyone to go to hell. But I do caution us with that thought process of thinking, hey, as long as you believe in Jesus, you're good to go. That's dangerous. That's in there. No, as long as you seek God's will above all things, then I'm a little bit more comfortable. But if you're not seeking our father's will above all, then I. You know, I'm a little concerned. And I want as your brother in Christ, I want to inspire you to want that you getting back to the book, that's really what it's about. It's me urging our brothers and sisters out there, the fallen away Catholics. I'm urging them to take another look at this. It's the non-Catholics. I'm urging them to say, hey, wait a second. Maybe I missed the mark a little bit. Maybe I'm not doing our father's will. Maybe I need to make some adjustments because I do want to do the father's will. So anyhow, I wanted to just kind of mention that regarding that woman, that's not a healthy way to think about it. As far as, hey, we're all going the same place as long as you believe in Jesus. I believe in Jesus. Everybody believes in Jesus. We're going to heaven. Well, you know, hopefully, but maybe not, you know? And so we need to do our part to help make sure people are doing what they need to do to find and do our father's will, if that makes sense. Right. And I, I do think also in the book, to me, one of the general consensus is the fact of when you say you love Jesus, why wouldn't you want more? And him completely? Why would you just want a little piece of him? Like back when I when I was a Christian and in this watered down version and again at the time I thought it was, I thought that was as good as it got. But it's kind of like when you have margarine and then you have a real butter and you're like, oh, that's really good. I, you know, do you have something of quality? You know, it's like it makes you think, well, why would I want to go back to margarine? I want butter, right. Really wanting to get as close to him as possible. And and I'm with you. Like when I receive the Eucharist. It's just it's so life giving to me. I miss it if I can't have it because it's just, it's it's like air and water to me at this point. And I do appreciate in, in your book, you're concerned for people when you're trying to drive them in such a way, because I think that's I guess, what I was trying to get at when I say people are resistant and they're sitting in the corner with their lives crossed, it's like, this isn't a contest where, you know, we shouldn't be doing battle with each other. It's like we're genuinely, genuinely concerned with brothers and sisters that they're not living this full and complete life, especially if they're already a follower of Jesus. Take it to the next step and again, not in judgment. More in like encouragement, right? One of the things I feel we have in common is when you're saying you've reached out to a bunch of people and you've been turned away, I feel there's certain places I wish I was getting more support because it's like, why? Why aren't you supporting me? This is I'm on a mission for God. I'm not on a mission for me. Like you're able to, right? You have. You know, you're doing. You're evangelizing in one way. I'm trying to do mine in another way. And it's all about building up the kingdom. It's not about you, it's not about me. But we are trying to use our gifts. Or like you said, I won't quote you properly, but, going where people let's not, quote, get it going where they, where they're at, doing where they're at. Yeah. Go where they are. You know, the more we can all help each other because we're all trying to get people to church back to church, closer with the Lord Catholic. Of course, I just I'm such a big, you know, proponent of that. So I think you and I are very similar in that we're I want to be given a chance. It's like, let me let me. Adam, we're just on with what what God wants in his timing and and presenting how I can evangelize in my way. And I want to support other people that are doing that, like yourself. Thank you. What goals do you have for the future, for your ministry? I actually I have sort of, let's call it two ministries like the explicitly Catholic and and this is sort of the hunting archery Catholic ministry. So I have the two. And for as far as this goes, I just want to keep trying to lead people to Jesus, you know? And so I don't have an aspiration as far as if it becomes anything more than it already is like, because it's like you like you said, we're doing this for God. And I'm like, I'm more or less like God. If you want anything to happen in that forum, then, you know, let it happen. And so, yeah, I think if I can just reach people, some people then, then that's then I'm doing what I want to do with that. And then on the Catholic side of things, I still have desires, you know, similar to like what you've said, I still have desires to be, able to touch our pew, Catholics to be Catholics sitting. If you were even people who aren't going to mass, I would love to also inspire them in their faith. So I think in general, wherever I'm at, I just want to try to inspire Catholics in their faith. That's my overall hope. Also, I wanted to mention this as far as one of the things you mentioned is not getting support. let's remember what the scriptures say. The stone which the builders rejected has become the cornerstone. So in God's own way, he will. We're going to be rejected. Jesus was rejected by his own. We have to live the life of Jesus. And so we have to be rejected in some ways. But in the same token, God's the one who builds on that, you know? And so I want to just throw that in there too. So as far as my overall, you know, just bringing it back to your question, I actually I used to have an aspiration to hit 100,000 subscribers with my YouTube channel. That was sort of my hope. And I did hit that. And once I did, it's like, well, that was a nice human goal. But really, I guess it doesn't even matter. It's just a matter of, can I reach people for Jesus and and can I continue to do that with archery and hunting? And and I reach people. I have a lot of people who like it. I have a lot of people who hate it. I have a lot of people who they like my instructional videos, but then once they watch a few more and realize how Catholic I am, they're like, oh, I don't want any part of that. And, you know, so they come and go really quickly and that's fine. I'm out there trying to sow seeds. Right? Everyone listen. And we got to be sowing seeds. And what does the Scripture say? We're going to sow in tears and then we will reap rejoicing. So as we're out sowing, we can expect the hardships. And I urge you, Catholics listening to go out and do it. You know, be prepared for that and don't hold back. You know the world needs you right now. The world needs solid Catholics to step up a little bit more. And I mean, look at Gloria. She started her own podcast. Great job Lori. Keep it going and we need more people. I mean, it's not all going to be a podcast, but everyone's got some kind of gift, some kind of talent. And then you just ask the question, Ward, how can I use this for you? And then run with it and go with the Lord. Let the Lord lead you and be prepared for setbacks. Be prepared for a lot of rejection, but do it for God, you know. And I got to say to Lauren, and I don't know what it's been like for you, but I have become a better person because of a lot of the negative and setbacks that I have had, in the sense like it purged a lot of the wrong motivations for doing things like with the archery YouTube channel, the archery, and under YouTube channel. When I wanted to hit 100,000 subscribers. That's actually the wrong focus. And when I hit that, that's when I realized this isn't the right focus. I'm not the I'm not supposed to do anything just to hit a number. I'm just supposed to do my best to bring people to Jesus. Period. Whatever the follower number is doesn't matter. What matters is if I am doing my best to do the father's will to bring people to God, that's it. Whether I have ten subscribers or 20 or 100,000, whatever, that is the wrong focus. The right focus is just doing my best to bring people to Jesus. So I would say in my long winded answer, that's I just I want to stay focused on that with it. No matter, no matter where it goes or if it goes anywhere else than than just a little YouTube thing, then that's what it is. I want to do the father's will with it. And sometimes I don't necessarily know exactly what our father's will is with it. Other than I do my best. I know he wants me to use my gifts to do my best, and I think that's what I'm doing. So hopefully I get the sense that that I'm on the right path with what God wants me to do. He refines me through the process. You know, I feel the same way where when I started the podcast, I my thing was if I can get one person to come to church or back to the church. Yeah, this one gentleman got in touch with me. I hadn't been doing the podcast for very long at all, and he said, because my podcast helped inspire he and his wife and son to go through RCA. And I thought, oh my God, wow, that was three people. That's awesome. I mean, that's what it's all about right there. That's a victory. So I mean, to me, I think that's so funny to hell. Things that I used to think were important, like you're saying, like certain things where you go, oh, that would be great from a human standpoint. But then when it comes down to it, I love it when people are coming to me now and saying, oh, I listen to your podcast. It's really helping me, you know, because I do the daily, readings. So they're like, oh, you know, because I can't go to daily mass. That's really helping me. I had a friend of mine the other day. She she told me she's listening to the dailies and, and she said, oh, I just love them. I count on them every morning. And, and I just thought, oh, that's so nice. That's so good. You know, and, and I know people are enjoying Simon being the, the co-host and it's like a different dynamic than when I first started. So it's however, you know, it gravitates people. And, and I think your books are going to really do that. And I if I have any part in that where I feel like I can get the word out, you know, I really want to do that for you because sometimes that's what it takes. Is somebody saying, oh, you got to give it a try again. I appreciate your positive, toward the book. And, and maybe I'll just say this too. I'll just try to fit this in to give a little more context for the listener. so in archery and I mentioned this in the book, so the whole goal with shooting an arrow is to get the hit the bullseye. And in archery you're, you're higher level archers especially have what's called a shot sequence, which is a sequence of things you intentionally work through. Every time you draw the bow, you draw to a specific spot. You anchor to a specific spot, you release a specific way. Everything is intentional in order to execute what you hope will be the perfect shot. So in life, you mentioned a little bit. As far as you know, there's different types of sin, different levels of sin. But some people have, you know, temptations in life that if they were to develop a sequence of things that they went through to help them execute that virtue in the moment of temptation, they will do it more often than if they did not have a set of steps. And that's what the chapter five is about. It's taking that concept and saying, okay, guys. And I mean, there's going to be some girls that read it. I mean, you read it because I asked you, thank you for that. But most of my audience is, is guys, you know, realistically, but it's a matter of looking at your life and saying, okay, where are the areas that I'm struggling? What is a shot sequence for life, for spiritual, my spiritual life that I can put into place that's going to help me hit the mark to not sin, you know? And so that's really, I guess one last thing. So the title become a better archer and use it to avoid sinning. That's the point right there. It's those concepts that you can bring into life and help you hit the mark in life when you're in the moment of temptation or challenge. So anyhow, I just want to do, bring that full circle, for anyone listening and for you, as far as why the title is what it is and, and what I hope to accomplish from cover to cover. That sounds all really good. And I just again, I'm going to encourage my listeners to go to the show notes, and you will see where you can find Shawn and his websites and get this book. People get this book. I really think it will be worthwhile to you and I stand by it. So thank you. I really thank you, Shawn, for coming in to chat with me today, and I can't wait to have you back. And like I said, so far I can think of two other topics I'd like to talk to you about. So we'll talk about that on the side. But if you're up for it and there you go. Thank you for coming. Thank you so much. Appreciate I appreciate you and all you're doing. So God bless all of your ministry. And thank you. I want to thank your listeners too, for following Lori and giving her support. So we're all in this together. And, I appreciate all of you doing that and supporting her. Thank you guys. Wonderful. Thank you. Love you. Bye. Thank you for joining me today. Now go out and be a bright light in someone's life. And remember be focused, be faithful and be fresh. Fresh. Catholic is produced, edited and recorded in Ventura, California.