Ready to flip your perception of sales on its head? Join me and best-selling author Bob Berg as we crack open the secrets of successful selling, uncovering how a 'giving' mindset not only enriches your business relationships but also boosts your bottom line. You'll hear how Bob's 35-year journey teaching and practicing the principles of giving has shaped his perspective on sales - not as a transactional, but rather a value-based, relationship-driven process.
Let's delve into the essence of providing value in sales. Learn how focusing on your client's interests instead of your own not only fosters an environment of trust but also makes you irresistibly attractive for them to do business with. Bob and I pull back the curtain on the invisible connection between faith, money, and sales techniques. We help you understand why shifting attention from 'getting' to 'giving' is not just an ethical move, but a practical and effective sales strategy.
But we don't stop there. This episode also offers insights into leadership and character development, teaching you how to listen to your customers and focus on what truly matters to them. You'll also pick up tips on self-improvement and personal growth, as Bob and I look at how self-evaluation and mitigation of weaknesses can lead to personal and professional advancement. Tune in and be inspired by the teachings of Stoic philosopher Marcus Aurelius, and see how his wisdom can apply to your business and leadership style. The paradigm shift from getting to giving in sales can be your game changer - will you embrace it?
Ready to flip your perception of sales on its head? Join me and best-selling author Bob Berg as we crack open the secrets of successful selling, uncovering how a 'giving' mindset not only enriches your business relationships but also boosts your bottom line. You'll hear how Bob's 35-year journey teaching and practicing the principles of giving has shaped his perspective on sales - not as a transactional, but rather a value-based, relationship-driven process.
Let's delve into the essence of providing value in sales. Learn how focusing on your client's interests instead of your own not only fosters an environment of trust but also makes you irresistibly attractive for them to do business with. Bob and I pull back the curtain on the invisible connection between faith, money, and sales techniques. We help you understand why shifting attention from 'getting' to 'giving' is not just an ethical move, but a practical and effective sales strategy.
But we don't stop there. This episode also offers insights into leadership and character development, teaching you how to listen to your customers and focus on what truly matters to them. You'll also pick up tips on self-improvement and personal growth, as Bob and I look at how self-evaluation and mitigation of weaknesses can lead to personal and professional advancement. Tune in and be inspired by the teachings of Stoic philosopher Marcus Aurelius, and see how his wisdom can apply to your business and leadership style. The paradigm shift from getting to giving in sales can be your game changer - will you embrace it?
All right, everybody, welcome to another episode of the Stoic Agent podcast. Hyper excited here. The guests keep getting cooler and bigger and better, even though he's this going to be a humble man. Right here I've got Bob Berg, the author of the Go-Giver, and the Go-Giver sells more and a lot of other things you do, I know masterminds and do some coaching and all that. So welcome to the podcast, Bob. Thanks, Alex, Great to be with you. Yeah, man, Absolutely Well, let's dive right in. Let's just so. If the audience doesn't know who you are, why don't you talk to them? Kind of give yourself a little bit of background here and why they might want to listen to you.
Speaker 2:Well, whether they want to listen to me or not, I don't that I can't, that I have no control over. So I'll be like the Stoics in that way and control only what I can control and not what I can't. So but yeah, I've been sort of doing this for about 35 years Now. I started out in broadcasting, then sales and and learned sales and began sharing with others what worked for me and for for those. I taught and started writing books and speaking on the the issue. My first book was Analysts, referrals, networker, everyday Contacts into Sales, which I think a good friend of ours, our mutual friend Dennis G, and it first read many years ago and he and I became friends after that. And then a book I co-authored with John David Mann called the Go-Giver came out about 15 years ago or so and that's that's been the kind of the biggie since then.
Speaker 1:So when when I think I think that a lot of what you do within the Go-Giver and and I read the Go-Giver back in, dennis introduced me to it and you know it really comes from a place of service, and you mentioned Offset here talking about Marcus Aurelius and you know one of the, I think that things that made him such a great leader. There was a lot of things that made him a great leader, but you know there was the Antonine plague, which actually went through Rome A lot of people don't realize this and killed countless millions of people and during that plague he actually sold all of the jewels and they actually sold his wife's jewels and the furniture and everything on the lawn of the of you know the kingdom there and so you know that place of coming to give to the community, would you say that is kind of a cornerstone around your philosophy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean really the.
Speaker 2:The basic premise, excuse me, of the Go-Giver philosophy, if you will, is that shifting your focus from getting to give and when we say giving in this context, excuse me, we simply mean constantly and consistently providing immense value to others, understanding that doing so is not only a more fulfilling way of conducting business, it's it's the most financially profitable way as well.
Speaker 2:And not pretty kind of woo-woo, way out there magical, mystical type of reasons, but really for for reasons that, as the Stoics understood, tied in with with human nature. When you're that person, who, who can take your focus off of yourself and place it on serving others, discovering what they need, what they want, what they desire, when you can move your focus off of yourself to helping others solve and overcome their challenges and problems right, when you can, when you can take the focus off yourself and make it about bringing others closer to happiness, well, people feel good about you, they feel great about you, they want to get to know you, they like you, they trust you, they want to be in relationship with you, they want to do business with you, they want to tell others about you, they want to be your personal walking ambassador, and so, so that's really what it's about. You do it from a true, authentic heart of wanting to give value to others, and you also allow yourselves to receive the benefits that come back to you.
Speaker 1:Do you think that there's some friction in the mind of that sales is? I've got to figure out how to manipulate people to buy what I want them to buy, and how do people kind of get through that? Because what you're talking about is to give I mean, it is the go-giver so to give and add value, and I think that people get a little hitched up with that. They hear about sales and I don't want to be salesy. What is that you think that goes on in the human mind that holds people back from being good salespeople? Well, when people say they don't want to be salesy, or they'll specifically say you know, I don't like selling it.
Speaker 2:It's not that they don't like selling, it's that they don't like what they think selling is. Because, let's face it, most people have a Misperception around sales. They think selling is about trying to convince someone to Buy something they don't want or or need, and that, of course, is not selling. That's called being a Con artist, right so, and I don't think any of us would want to do that. So if that's what we thought selling was, well, of course we wouldn't want to do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the old English rude of the word sell, salan, meant to give. So when you're get, when you're selling, you're literally Giving. Now someone might say well, you know, berg, that's clever on everything, but isn't that just semantics, selling giving? Well, what are you really giving when you're selling? Well, let's say you're in the Presentation process, you're in front of a prospective customer or client, you are selling. So what are you giving? I suggest you're giving them time, attention, counsel, education, empathy and, mostly, extraordinary value, value. So when we look at selling that way, through that lens now, we see it as something very different and it's something we could absolutely Grab on to and be proud of hmm, I love that.
Speaker 1:so do you think that there's also a sense of Sometimes that there's a not, there's a delayed gratification and that people haven't quite made that connection? So they want to present you with a product and you sell, and they get paid, and they just they they're not used to like a delayed or even let me ask you this To shift that the dopamine comes from actually giving rather than getting a hundred.
Speaker 2:That's a great way to look at it, and when we can, and when we can get that joy from actually giving value to others, that's a wonderful thing. But I would say to somebody, even if you don't feel that way right now, take that action anyway. Why? Because and let's go back for a second when you talked about delayed gratification and one of the premises, or False premises that someone might have regarding the go-giver way of doing business as well you know this go-giver stuff focusing on the other person, focusing on value, rather than focusing on the commission. That's fine Once I have the money, sure, but I mean I, I need the money right now, I can't wait.
Speaker 2:Well, let's first understand something, and this is very important Nobody is gonna buy from you Because you need the money. They're not gonna buy from you because you have a quota to meet. And they're not gonna buy from you just because you're a really nice human being. They're gonna buy from you because they believe that ultimately they will be, they will benefit. Yeah right, it'll be better for them to buy from you than not to buy from. That's the only reason, right?
Speaker 2:So when we understand that now we know that it's actually in the sales person's best interest To place their focus on the other person. Now, what happens when we do that and we make that shift? Well, first of all, there's no better way to Create that environment where that person feels good about you, where they know you, like you trust, you feel confident in you, want to do business with you. Then, by trying to benefit them, riding value to them. Once, this person who didn't understand this previously, once they get that Now, not only do they, they see a much better business results and a lot more money that they're earning, but they actually do begin to feel good about the process itself and about the value they're providing. Hmm, I love that.
Speaker 1:One of the things that came up when you were talking about this and so it's making that shift. Would you say that they're so? You're offering something here that you know works, whether people believe it does or not. That's another story. Let's just say that they're kind of stepping into this potentiality when how do they derive some faith? Because, essentially, faith is believing in something that you can't touch, in a way, right, how do they derive some of that faith? Do you think there's some wisdom of learning from Bob, of learning from some of the others that have given and Talk to us about that of like? How do they make that connection when they are like, yeah, yeah, bob, I need the money, though, so I don't care what you say, I need to learn some fancy sales techniques.
Speaker 2:Well, first of all, there's nothing wrong with sales techniques. Sales techniques are fine if they are benefiting the other person. If they need to learn manipulation techniques, then I want nothing to do with them learning anything from me. Now, the good news is, you don't have to manipulate in order to have a great sales career. Now, by the way, I mean, if you, if someone's gonna lie, cheat and steal, you might be able to make a sale, but you're probably not gonna do very well in business sustainably, okay, so I just I put that out of the. You know, out of the. Not only does it feel yucky, but even it doesn't. It's just bad business.
Speaker 2:Okay, you can actually do much better by looking for ways to benefit others, but there's nothing self-sacrificial about this.
Speaker 2:Let's always go, then, for the person who kind of doesn't believe it, let's go back To the basic statement that they're not gonna buy from you because you need the money.
Speaker 2:If that's so and I think everyone would agree, everyone in sales would agree that so right, then it just makes logical sense that you've got to give them a reason to see the benefit of doing business with you, and that's because they see the value in it. There's also no faith that needs to come into play, because what John and I have shared in this book is nothing new whatsoever. So long as, as long as there's been market economies, these are the people who have done the best and sustainably so in sales, and I'll say this by and large it's it's quicker to do it this way than to try to manipulate yourself and, you know, trying to manipulate others rather and try to just. You know, no, if you find a way to bring value to another person, you're much more likely for this sale to take place. So there's really nothing. There's nothing that needs to be proven because it's already been proved Again. In other words, there's nothing original in what John and I have, you know, have talked about.
Speaker 1:Well, let's go back to that. And did you? How did you come across this? So you know, you wrote this. You know the first book of, you know endless sales referrals. Where did you stumble across this? Or was this part of your upbringing? Where did this come from?
Speaker 2:Ah, I mean, I studied sales. When I got into sales I really studied it and kind of learned what the challenge I had was that, although I don't seem like an introvert, I actually very much am. So I never really enjoyed the going to places to meet people. Prospecting was not something I enjoyed. So what I had to do was come up with a system that made the prospecting process enjoyable, and what I found made it enjoyable was when I could relate to people in a way that they did the talking and that I knew that they enjoyed the conversation as much as I did, you know. So my endless referral system was basically on how to cultivate those relationships.
Speaker 2:You know, I've been saying for 35 years, since I've been doing this, that, all things being equal, people will do business with and refer business to those people they know, like and trust. Well, you know what's the fastest, most powerful, most effective way to elicit those feelings Focus on the other person, make it about them. That's easy for an introvert to do, because we'd rather, you know the other person do the talking. It's toughest for that person who is the you know, the extrovert. I know they can do it, but they need to be able to pull themselves back and make it about the other person. As far as with the Go-Giver which is because, you know, while endless referrals is principle based, there's a lot of strategy there. With the Go-Giver and the several books in the series John and I have written, it's much more conceptual so that you get the five laws, the lots of value, compensation, influence, authenticity, receptivity. How do they work? Why do they work? How does it align with human nature, which is the most important aspect of all, and John and I both have been entrepreneurs. John and I have both studied success for years. He has a writer, has gotten to interview some of the most successful people in the world. As a speaker Excuse me I've gotten to share the platform with some of the most successful people in the world. I ask a lot of questions and I love learning from everybody. Plus, he and I both read lots of biographies and lots of history and a lot right.
Speaker 2:So when we came together to do this, it was very natural. I mean, we just kind of said OK, so what are those things that all sustainably successful people did? It wasn't a matter of did they make a quick buck? And that was it. Where they want to hit wonders, or where they, you know, what have you? What is it that the sustainably successful people did, whether they realized it or not, because a lot of people do things intuitively and they don't even know that's what they're doing. They just they have that knack for it or just you know, for whatever reason. So we wanted to know what is it that they? And we just discussed it and we talked about it as we did.
Speaker 2:The laws, kind of built upon themselves, you know, always starts with that person who can focus on others and look to provide value, always starts with what is value. Value is the relative worth or desirability of a thing, of some thing, to the end user or beholder. In other words, what is it about this thing, this product, service concept, idea, what have you that brings so much worth or value to another human being that they will willingly exchange their money for it? Ok, that's different from price. Price is a dollar figure, right? So it's the dollar amount. Value is different Values relative.
Speaker 2:It's in the eyes of the beholder, so that person who understands how to discover from that other, realizing that we all value different things in different ways because we have different ways of seeing the world, of understanding the world. We all come from our own set of beliefs right, which has been which were handed to us, which is a combination of upbringing, environment, schooling, news, media, television shows. But you know, from the time we're really young, we get hit with this set of beliefs long before we're able to question premises right and ask why. So we grow up as human beings and we are subject to an unconscious operating system, if you will. We don't even know we have it and we make all these decisions thinking it's based on free will, when really it's within a matrix of people, if you remember that first movie where we don't even know that we're.
Speaker 2:And so what the great failed person knows is that what we find to be a value is not necessarily what someone else does. So they know how to ask questions and they know how to listen, and they know how to dig deeper and really, really know that they're going to decide what that other person holds to be a value, what they need, what they want, what they desire right, and only then connect the benefits of their product or service. Whether you know, you speak with a lot of realtors. So, whether it's, you know, enlist in a home or buying a home or whatever it happens to be right. They're going to know that. They know what this other person is thinking, not assume anything. So you know that's. That's really. You know a big part of what it's about.
Speaker 1:You know, something you said there sparked in me. I don't know if you've ever read the seven powers of questions. You know I'm kind of connecting some dots here and Do you think part of the value add to someone is holding a space and asking genuine questions? Rather, I've really tried to impart on the Agents that have aligned with me that you know asking the right questions is critical and and really actively listening, not just waiting for your time to talk. Well, that's key.
Speaker 1:Talk about that a little bit, about. What do you think about the power of questions and the value that you add to someone's life Just by holding space and being interested in and what's valuable to me?
Speaker 2:Well, I love what you said about listening. It's it's as you said, it's not listening just to respond, right, it's, it's listening as, as dr Stephen Cummy said, to first understand, very important. And so we, we don't listen just with and John and I talk about this in the fourth book in the series, the doggiever influencer it's not listening With your, just with your ears. You know, that's the surface listening. It's a good start, but that's just a surface listening. It's listening with your eyes, it's listening With your, with your body, with your posture.
Speaker 2:It's an and John says this, I love this that he came up with it's listening with the back of your neck and and what he's, what he's saying is it's putting your entire being Into listening to what this person saying and then again at what's. What's very important, I think, in the the listening process, the questioning and listening process, is to not assume that we understand what they mean by what they say, because, remember, we all come at things from our own set of beliefs, including definitions, and so so we need to be able to tactfully and diplomatically ask that person to clarify. You know, just for my own understanding, when you say x Do you mean? Or what do you mean by, or could you take that a little further for me, so that I you know in that that's very important.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it, and I love that. I live that listening with the back of your neck. So I was getting genuinely because people can tell right when you're kind of feigning interest, you know, is that what that kind of means, like you really just from that very essence from back here, rather than just so, yeah, yeah, I'm really here like my whole body is engaged in and what you're saying, because I want to know, I Genuinely want to know well, you know, alex, two things happen, I think, when you listen with the back of your neck right.
Speaker 2:One is you really do Understand a lot more than you would have, okay, so you are able to take in and receive a whole lot more information. That's gonna help you not only add value to their life, but communicate effectively, communicate that value. The other thing is, as you said, they know you're listening right and it's just another. That's again, it's another aspect of human nature. We want to know that person cares, that they have our well-being at heart, that they want to understand us. So when we listen like that, what we're really doing is is Expanding the depth of that relationship.
Speaker 1:And when and when you're listening in there, you're also there's different parts to what people are selling. For instance, you know let's talk about homes here because we sell homes, right. So You're really listening to what's important to them about the home and then you're not going to talk about the other things that you think are Important about home ownership. You're really just gonna hone in, not to sell them. That's what they want to talk about. That's what's important. Is that what you're? That's what you're talking about.
Speaker 2:Well, I think there's a time and place for everything. So, yes, you know you, you need to be with them where they are at this moment and what they're looking to discuss now. There's certain aspects you've got to be able to bring into the conversation, obviously as an agent, in order to help them, that they don't know, because you know the process much more than they do. But but and you are there as the salesperson, as the agent, you are the leader, and so you've got to be able to to attain their buy-in. But you do that Through, just as you said, you know, being with them where they are at that moment.
Speaker 1:Hmm, look, I love that you brought up leadership. That's the concept that I just absolutely adore. You know, I heard somebody say once in order to lead others, we need to lead ourselves first. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:It's weren't the store. It's all about that, more than anything, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, personal responsibility. Um, could you talk about that, like what leadership means within the concept of, within the, with the context of leading yourself? And there come, like maybe you could dive into a little bit of self-awareness around that as well.
Speaker 2:Well, I you know, in a sense and I'll just take from one of the books on the series, the go-giver leader, aunt Al, was the, was the Mentor in this part, and she said to Ben, who was the protege you know what you have to to give To, what you have to offer. She said you give, yeah, least of all through what you say. Now, that's what you say is important. We need to be able to say things the right way and and we need to be able to say the right things, of course, but it's the least important. More important is what you do, but most important is who you are, and that's where character comes into play.
Speaker 2:Character comes from an old Greek word meaning scrape or or scratch. It came to mean an engraved marque and eventually a defining quality. Now, with one word of wax poetic, one could say that characters, what happens when life etches or scratches itself onto your soul, which is very poetic, of course, that's John saying, because he's so great like that. But I'm not as poetic I. I, like You're defining quality right to me. That's your, your, your defining quality, which is some total of all your qualities. Your defining quality is your character. It's interesting about people with high character because Not only do they tend to stand for something, but we tend to know exactly where they, where they stand. Now, that doesn't mean they don't make mistakes, of course they do, they're human. It doesn't mean they don't Course correct. You know, certainly they, they do, but you know when it, when it comes to those Values based decisions, they are absolutely immovable, immutable and and just right, there, you know, right, you know exactly where they stand, and that's one reason why we respect those people so much and will follow them, that they have high character. We develop high character through our own self-improvement. We look at those areas where we need to work. Now I think there you know people. There's.
Speaker 2:There's an old saying that you know, forget about your weaknesses, just focus on your strengths. I Don't think that's a complete saying. I understand what people mean when they say that. You know you want to, to focus what you're good at. You know, focus on your strengths, lead with your strengths, try to. You know, hire out your weaknesses or try to. That's fine, but I think there are three types of weaknesses. There are the weaknesses that Are pretty meaningless and we don't have to worry about. I Mean, you know, I don't run long distance as well. That's a weakness of mine, but it's 65 years old with no plans to run a marathon. I'll let that weakness go. Don't care, I don't file things well, don't have the patience, I hire that out. That's a weakness that I can. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Okay, then there are the weaknesses we need to mitigate. We don't have to focus on them, but we need to mitigate them so, so, for example, when it comes to numbers and and accounting and bookkeeping things, that's not a strength of mine, but I couldn't just let that go. When I did early in my career came back to haunt me, so I needed to mitigate that. I needed to learn enough that it was workable for me. Right? You know what I'm saying and and that's fine, so we know they do with you what was? I'll never be confused with a, with a CPA, but at the same time, you know it's it's a mitigated weakness and I'm okay. Then there are those weaknesses we need to turn into strengths if we're going to Come anywhere close to to realizing our potential and being more effective. These would be things that you know.
Speaker 2:For example, someone who has anger issues. Okay, they need to be able to, now that you know there's. There's righteous anger, but that's not what I'm talking about. I think you know they're righteous anger when some you know something bad has happened to someone or there's a you know An injustice. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about someone having anger issues where they yell all the time and they're they. They're not in control of themselves or their emotions on that right. That's a person who needs to absolutely work on that, as I had to.
Speaker 2:Back when I Started working on my character traits back about 35 years ago, I went on what would be now called Berg 2.0, I guess in computer lingo. But back then who thought of it? I just knew I needed to work on certain areas of my, my character that were very weak and Turn that those weaknesses into strength. So very few people would ever know that Bob Berg ever had anger issues right. Another was a Appreciation and gratitude for the first 35 years of my. 30 years of my life say 35 years of my life I Looked at the negative side of things. They just it's where I went. That was just my natural way of looking at that. Wasn't brought up that way, but that's just how it was for me and I realized I had to to start to Embrace gratitude.
Speaker 2:I had to start to live in gratitude and I worked on it and I'd live my life that way and it didn't take me long to get to that point and immediately things got much better. And there were other traits, character traits that I knew I needed to. We were to work on real weaknesses of character that I needed to turn into strengths. I think that's where it starts and I think that's where I think this. I think the Stoics had a wonderful grasp on that and you know, if you read that which I know, obviously you do more than I do you're an expert with the Stoics. I'm not. I just enjoy reading and learning from them. But that's really, those are the things you can control, and they're all about controlling that which is within your sphere of influence. You're, you're what you can control.
Speaker 1:That's fantastic. I wrote those three down. I love that you have the. You know that maybe I'm not good at running or filing and that's okay, that's not gonna ruin your not gonna ruin your life. You could potentially ruin your fiscal life by not paying attention to that.
Speaker 2:Oh, wait, it came back to hot Years ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah, really sure, yeah, and Then I love that last one. You know what are the really big ones, and that's a you know that self-evaluation. What led you to that? Like what was that juncture? Did you have this epiphany moment where you ruined a relationship, or something like that? I don't need you look at it.
Speaker 2:They were books I was reading that I started to to See myself in these books in in the ways that certain character traits were brought up Gossiping was another one that I put. I put to have been all the time and you know, in other things and I started to really see myself. And again, this is about 34, 35 years old and I just saw that, you know, I I wasn't gonna to Come near reaching my potential if I didn't rework myself. And then a great mentor of mine, charlie Cromendous Jones and late Charlie Jones, he sent me a book with the autobiography by Benjamin Franklin, which had which is one of the best books to me ever written wisdom of the ages, and he had one chapter in which he talked about Him having he did this at 20 years old where he realized he had certain character trait deficiencies that he needed to work on and he actually he invented a course on how to do it. You know this is long before Dale Carnegie came along. So Ben was an inventor and he invented his own self-improvement course and he showed how to how to do this.
Speaker 2:It was in the chapter. I think it's chapter 8. I'm not, I don't recall, but it was on the oh my gosh, the I can't think of the name of the chapter, my apologies, but it was. It was on that he talked about taking 13 traits he wanted to work on and how to do it, and it was a game changer for me. I did exactly what he said. I use some of his traits because they were similar to mine, but there were others that were individual to me and I went through his course just right, as he suggested in the book, and it turned my life. I mean, it was just you know.
Speaker 1:I've got my next Amazon purchase, yeah well, hey, in the spirit of the go-giver, I don't want to take. You have been so gracious with your time and I know you're not great with filing, so I'm gonna keep us on time here on. You've been so gracious with your time. I want to also say you know how quickly you reached back out to me, how you know how expeditious your process was to get into the calendar, setting me over the assets like just talk, not, you obviously have some people there helping you out, which you talked about. You know mitigating that kind of thing. Hire that out. You've got some great people and I just want to genuinely say I really, really appreciate you taking your precious time to come and to add value To our audience and my audience not as big as yours, but we know Okay.
Speaker 2:I'm a lot older, I've had more time to put it together. You'll. You'll get there. You're on your way, thank you.