Join me as we journey alongside the multi-faceted entrepreneur, Nick Robbins - a man who's swam in the gritty currents of the NFL, sailed the high-pressure waves of marketing, and is now charting new territories in real estate. Throughout the podcast, he sheds light on his fascinating expedition from the sports industry to the marketing world, and finally to the realm of real estate.
As Nick navigates through the concept of 'skill stacking', we uncover the hidden treasures of this strategy that has the power to exponentially increase your earning potential. We venture into the world of focus, cutting through the distractions and noise that hinder success, and then dive deep into the complex waters of time and ego. Nick offers unique insights, shedding light on how these elements impact our emotional state and how they are interconnected.
The final part of our journey with Nick brings us to the shores of the future - a future shaped by artificial intelligence. We discuss how it's changing the landscape of real estate and how professionals can adapt to these rising tides. As we anchor at the end of our conversation, we look back and appreciate the rich waters we've traversed, anticipating further explorations and shared successes. So, tune in for a podcast like no other and let's navigate the sea of success, together, with Nick Robbins.
Join me as we journey alongside the multi-faceted entrepreneur, Nick Robbins - a man who's swam in the gritty currents of the NFL, sailed the high-pressure waves of marketing, and is now charting new territories in real estate. Throughout the podcast, he sheds light on his fascinating expedition from the sports industry to the marketing world, and finally to the realm of real estate.
As Nick navigates through the concept of 'skill stacking', we uncover the hidden treasures of this strategy that has the power to exponentially increase your earning potential. We venture into the world of focus, cutting through the distractions and noise that hinder success, and then dive deep into the complex waters of time and ego. Nick offers unique insights, shedding light on how these elements impact our emotional state and how they are interconnected.
The final part of our journey with Nick brings us to the shores of the future - a future shaped by artificial intelligence. We discuss how it's changing the landscape of real estate and how professionals can adapt to these rising tides. As we anchor at the end of our conversation, we look back and appreciate the rich waters we've traversed, anticipating further explorations and shared successes. So, tune in for a podcast like no other and let's navigate the sea of success, together, with Nick Robbins.
All right, here we are. We're in another episode here at the Stoic Agent podcast. I got a really unique guest here and the story will come out actually how we met. I hadn't actually prepared a lot of stuff for this interview because I knew it was gonna be a super organic and neat interview to have, but I got Nick Robbins here, who I actually just met in person first time. So welcome to the podcast bro.
Speaker 2:I appreciate it, man, Very excited to dig in Awesome.
Speaker 1:So let's start off. We always like to start off with who you are, kind of like, where you came from, and you can give us the short version. We got a long form here, so if you, as long as you wanna, go give us a little background on who you are and brought you here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. So quick background of how we got together here is about a decade ago I got a job in professional sports, started working in the MBA and up till that point in my life I had made some questionable decisions, we'll say you know, I took seven years to get a four year degree you know, six community colleges, two universities, that kind of stuff Got a job in professional sports and had a mentor over there who taught me how to show up on time, make calls and taught me how to sell, and that really was one of the most important things that's ever happened to me. And then, from there, worked in the MBA, then got a job in the NFL and then from there, I started being like, hmm, what do I wanna do next in life? And I started learning about a concept that I would love to get into, about skill stacking. Not sure if you're familiar with that the value of skill sets over anything else. Right. And at the time I'd realized, okay, I know how to sell, what else can I do to expand my skill sets to help go make more money? Cause I was concerned about money at the time, right, and I was like huh, marketing, online marketing and I had a buddy who knew a little bit about SEO and he'd been kind of an entrepreneur, and he was like, hey, man, quit your job, move to Utah, let's start a marketing business. And I was like, okay, let's do it right. And there was a trigger that led to this, though.
Speaker 2:In 2014, I was working for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, was the number one sales rep on the staff and I made $43,000 that year, including commissions, for an NFL franchise working 60, 70 hours a week. So I knew how to work hard. I knew how to sell Cause for those of you watching, if you guys know anything about the Buccaneers at the time, this was pre-Tom Brady. This was Greg Siano Merse 0-1-14, very difficult sale.
Speaker 2:Anywho, he'd seen me my business partner. He'd seen me learn how to sell. He said come work with me. And so as soon as I got that, within two weeks of me getting that final W-2 in December, I went and I moved mid January to Utah to start the marketing agency, and then, from there, all kinds of stuff took place. But long story short, we got all into paid advertising, online marketing, and we really kind of blew up. We went from zero to a million dollar, or a zero to $100,000 a month in 10 months, and then from there we blew up and we've done over $18 million in the last seven years, and then last year I ended up selling the agency and going on real estate and that's how we ended up meeting.
Speaker 1:Oh, so talk to me a little bit about. So who was the guy that? What was the relationship? He was an old friend of yours.
Speaker 2:Yes, he has an old friend who had started a business and then got bought out of it, and so I'd seen him kind of make in the entrepreneur game before and he was like I know online marketing and I need a salesman. And I was like let's do it. So I was single at the time, just jumped off a cliff, tamp at Utah and we just got after it.
Speaker 1:So did you guys simply work with people who didn't know how to online market, or were you selling a product yourselves? Great, question.
Speaker 2:So what we did originally was we were gonna sell SEO and websites and we were gonna sell them to local businesses right, you know, the car detail or dentist, that type of stuff and what I came to find was that I didn't know how to sell SEO and websites to local businesses. And there was actually a period there for about 10 months or it was almost a year, where I'd sold $0 worth of stuff and on the side I was actually gambling. I was playing daily fantasy, sports, draft kings and fan duel because my cousin was a professional gambler, and so like I had 2000 bucks that I had saved from my bankroll and that was like my living money. I was making like a couple thousand bucks a month off that. Anywho, I realized that I didn't know how to sell SEO and websites.
Speaker 2:But then I got introduced to this thing called Facebook advertising by a guy you might know, billy Jean. You know Billy Jean is marketing, yeah, so I was one of Billy Jean's really early guys. I've known him for a long time now and he taught me about Facebook advertising and for some reason that just clicked for me and I was like, oh, I put up an ad and I do a funnel and then that's it. Like his SEO had all these backlinks and I'm like I don't know how long it's gonna take and all that stuff. But as soon as I got introduced to Facebook advertising from Billy man, that's when we went from zero to 100K in 10 months and then we blew up and we ended up doing 3 million 1.7 million our first full year with Facebook advertising, then 3 million, then 3 million and then we just continued to grow.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, and where did you reach where you were like I don't wanna do this anymore. What prompted that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question. So it actually happened twice. So I first sold 40% of my equity share in the agency in late 2019. And the plan was I was gonna go with my wife over here and we were gonna go travel and we had all this travel plan for 2020. We were gonna go, I was gonna speak in Columbia, we were gonna go to Italy, we had all these things planned. And then we all know what happened in 2020, right and so from there I was like, okay, and we gotta make a game plan change.
Speaker 2:And at the time, I was running an agency mastermind, so working with other marketing agencies, helping them grow, and the results were astronomical, I mean crazy. Not only did some of these people go from like making 5,000 a month to 300,000 a month and beyond in like a six 12 month period. They also became some of my closest friends, and so that kept me close to the agency game and I'd always still been friends with my old business partner because he's been one of my best friends for a long time. And in early 2021, we basically traded some equity in a few different areas and I was back in the game again and then I left again.
Speaker 1:I guess it's a peelin' pack a little bit more. Did you just go? Did you get tired of it? Or like, why are you not doing it still?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So there were a couple of things. The biggest was I was tired of not having a compounding asset vehicle on the back end, and so what we were selling was service-based work, and I didn't have any equity in any medical practices. I didn't own anything that was inherently sellable. So I started thinking about what is sellable, compounding assets, what can take place in the next three, five, 10 years and the agency world.
Speaker 2:You're mainly selling labor, unless you create your own software. Unless you have something else, you're mainly selling labor and private equity big companies they don't like to buy that right, because then you basically got key man risk. If you lose a media buyer, if you lose something like that, you're gone. And it got to a point where it was like, okay, I either need to own equity in medical practices, or we need to develop some sort of software, or I need to sell, because I just wanted to start putting my skill set somewhere else, because at the time I'd been blessed to save some money, make some money, things like that. So I just started thinking about what my end game was and I came to realize like I just as much as I love the actual particular field of medical we were working in. I just didn't want to be in the medical arena. It's just not something I wanted to do from that angle.
Speaker 1:So you took the skill set that you learned and we're gonna talk about this skill stacking for sure. And then you, what was real estate? You're like, this is how we met. We're gonna eventually get to this. This is how we met. So then you said, okay, I'm able to use this skill of doing the ads which is an incredible skill set, by the way, which I'm gonna learn more from you and I can't wait to do that. And then you said real estate's the way to go. Had you always kind of been interested in real estate, or is it just that was the avenue to kind of get you to that compounding thing you're talking about?
Speaker 2:Great question. So I actually still remember the day. It was September 14, 2021. I had a conversation with Alex Becker, who I think you know in the marketing world, and I was in Texas and it actually happened to be about crypto, but it was about investing and to that point, I had basically just been storing cash for the most part, like I had started buying some investment properties, but kind of like on a whim, just kind of shotgun, buying them. I'm the kind of guy who's like, well, if I'm gonna buy one, I might as well buy two. So I signed on to the first day.
Speaker 2:Site unseen, I still have never seen our investment properties, but regardless, I had this conversation with Alex and we were talking about investing in compounding assets and where the world is going, where true wealth is created, and it opened my eyes to this world of investing that I hadn't really had that lens on before, and so after that I became obsessed. I started studying crypto markets, I started studying real estate, I started studying hedge fund guys Warren Buffett, all of that type of stuff the guys who were truly wealthy with the compounding assets and then I lost a bunch of money in 2022 on crypto, which was good. I still hold a good amount. I still believe in blockchain technology, for sure, but I bought some NFTs that were several thousand dollars that aren't worth anything anymore. I'm not afraid to admit it Guilty.
Speaker 2:Yeah there you go right, we get caught up in the craze.
Speaker 1:I bought one, I bought Real Vision. So it was my membership and then I got that on the side, but anyways.
Speaker 2:But at the time I was still. I'm very conservative by nature, so I like to have a war chest, but I was still buying stocks and real estate and so we have seven investment properties. And what really led me to how we where we are today is I was reviewing recently or not too long ago, the actual internal rate of return of our investment properties, when I included everything the cash flow, the appreciation, the tax benefits, all that stuff and I was like man, I need a thousand of these units. And I was like this is where I should place the marketing skillset and sales skillset I have. And that's when I was like this is it, let's do it.
Speaker 2:You know, and I spent a lot of time thinking about it and I was like this is it, I want to be on real estate. You know it's from the, so I want to attach it from it's. Not only do I want to have the real estate from the compounding assets standpoint, but, as a side note, I'm very involved in the AI world. I have a lot of friends who are deep down that world and it scares the garbage out of me, it's. It can be terrifying. I think it's going to end up being good, but anything that can be done on a computer.
Speaker 2:It's going to be a good thing, and I think it's going to be a good thing, and I think it's going to be a good thing and what I've done on a computer is going to be replaced, and so I started thinking about it. I was like man I want hard assets and I want to start getting involved with like plumbing and roofers and electricians, cause it's going to be a while before AI replaces that. They're going to replace the marketers and the media buyers and the copywriters and the sales people and that type of stuff soon. I think it's going to be a while till we teach the AI how to fix a toilet, and so that was another reason why I was just like, okay, in 10 years, what do I want to own a lot of? And I was like real estate.
Speaker 1:I love the forward thinking on that. Yeah, cause I've gone deep in my head about where this whole thing is going. Yeah, and it's interesting Cause I think you know people focus on if it bleeds, it leads type deal, so they kind of think about the worst case scenario, terminator style for AI you know. But I mean, I want to have a positive outlook and I think it's going to solve a lot of problems and it's going to create some too Definitely, and I have faith in humans.
Speaker 2:Overall, I think that humans will make the right decision over time.
Speaker 2:There might be, as there always has been in human history, some issues that arise until you know, the right idea ends up winning out. But the real thing too, there for me was like I just don't want to compete with these guys. I don't want to compete with Silicon Valley and the tech bro's, like I saw a huge, massive, massive arbitrage opportunity and inefficiency in the real estate market, cause when you're a deal, I mean you can't it's hard to get even accurate square footage on a house, right, like I mean, sometimes you know one soft once website has it as this, the property appraiser has it as the seller saying it's this, right, so the inefficiencies in the market are massive in my opinion, right, especially if you compare it to something like the stock market, where it's like you're competing with hedge funds and algorithms and like all these bots and stuff, and so that was another reason why, as well, that I wanted to go down there. I just didn't want to compete with the AI guys. Yeah, well, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's. That's one way to go with it. Let's go back to this skill stacking. I don't want to, I don't want to leave this, so so drop us this, this concept.
Speaker 2:Skill stacking, skill crafting, to me, is the number one thing that anyone should learn if they want to make more money and provide more value in life. Right, this should be taught at the educational level. It should be taught in high school. And what it really is is, if you stack strategically, stack skills together on top of each other, then you lead to exponential non-linear results in the amount of value that you provide. So I'll give you an example of the skill stack that I created over time. First I learned how to sell, which gives me a certain level of earning power, value provided to society, to the marketplace. Then I learned how to book my own appointments through marketing, which 10X it wasn't, it wasn't a 2X, it was a 10X, because if you can sell and you can book your own appointments, it's an exponential increase to your earning power. Then I was able to build my own products. So then I started selling services, courses, coaching, things of that nature. So now not only do I have the ability to sell, I can get appointments for that sale and I can develop the product and sell it on the backend Another exponential increase. Then I learned how to replace myself and build sales teams right, because I've had sales teams for years and years. I haven't taken too many direct sales calls in a long time. You were when we actually spoke was one of the first ones. Right, because I was testing a new area. Right, it was one of the first ones I'd had in a while. Right, because I taught, was able to teach, sales people how to do it, so then I could have multiple people selling my products, I could fill their calendars and then I could also have the product being fulfilled on the backend, right. And so if you stack these skills on top of each other, it just leads to exponential returns, and this can be with anything, right.
Speaker 2:So, like, I taught her a copywriter she's so good one of my favorite people, unbelievable. She came to us with no skill set in the copywriting game. She was a former Hollywood writer, and so she was one of those people who was underpaid, didn't make any money, you know that type of stuff. And I was like, look, if we can take what you know and I teach you sales copy, you're gonna make way more money. And so first I taught her sales copy, and then I taught her how to build funnels, and then I taught her the tech to the funnels right, and now she's at a point where she's learning how to train her own copywriters, again replacing herself, and each one of those things led to exponential increases. You can do this with accounting if you go from like accounting to you know, being a CFO to like learning how to do you know, hire more CFOs and all that type of stuff right. So it doesn't matter whether you're a coder, anything. If you strategically stack skills on top of each other, you can lead to massive results.
Speaker 1:I love that concept. I go to because I usually try to think about golf anyway I can. Is this like the different, like? Let me ask you this do you think that you will always they talk about, like people who really do well, the top guys? It ends up being here in the end because they all have the skill set right, but they talk about that you will. Your, your weakness will always be the thing that's Exploited when the pressure comes on. So, with all these skills that you developed is, do you think that, like, things start to break down If you don't do this? Or if, like, if you could be the best driver of the golf ball, your irons could be good, but if you're not good at chipping, your scores are gonna suffer. So you need to work on that. Is this? Is this a similar kind of it's on that?
Speaker 2:on that realm. In golf, you need to have the full round, full rounded thing, and it's because it's a solo sport. Yeah, and so you have to be in those areas. In business, there are certain skill weakness effects that need to be improved if you're gonna scale. At least I've had to learn. I had to learn some level of control over my numbers, for example, and understanding the math and the data behind those.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but when it comes to things like operations, which is not a strong skill set of mine, I still want to fill that gap. But that's where we usually do guy go to other people. So it would be creating a well-roundedness and you still need to know where those go. But I think the delineation between the solo sport versus the team sport is a little bit different there. Yeah, but it is that because in business, your week when the pressure is on the weakest part of the business is always what's gonna break. Yes, you know, and so whether it's you or someone else needs to fill that gap. You need to be aware of it. Yeah, if you can't solve it, you need to find the person who can.
Speaker 1:I I love that and that's why I have Candice, so. But you know, goes back to to that I need to learn this stuff as well and that's one of the things we've been work. One of our coaches we worked on with Candice is she just really loves to do the do you know, so she'll learn something and she wants to do it. It's like you got to get out of that role of doing the do. You have to know how to do it and then teach someone else and then hold them accountable and and you know, that's how you build it out right.
Speaker 1:So I want to shift gears, but a little bit into the same vein. So I didn't know that that I was your. I was a test case for you, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'd had a few other ones. Right, it was, it was more. I just had a couple of calls, remember we talked about the pilot program was right instead of soda, but for this particular one that's why I was on the call, you know, because I was like, okay, I want to have the conversations, I want to see what's being had here, I want to see how this goes right, because we want to eventually want to expand to, you know, every county in the United States Hopefully right and grow from there. But yeah, it was the first time, it was a test case, so I was still really going through the process of how I wanted it to go.
Speaker 1:Let me. Let me ask you this, because we've had such a connection on a number of different levels Do you think that the universe somehow like? I wanted to talk to you a little bit about Synchronicity, if you familiar with any of young stuff, yes, so is that. Do you? You believe that, like there was something of like? Because here's the other deal with that which I let you know For you, all of you out there.
Speaker 1:He sent me an email, right, and I get these all the time. I get them all the time and I'm like, oh, that's just somebody's copy and you know, if they send it out to enough people, they're gonna. Oh, there's a solution of my problem. I need more listings and I'm like I'm always looking for more opportunities, but at the end of the day, I Can see usually a sales letter and I, there's just so much bots and sales letters and all that. But for some reason, and I still you said SEMA actually didn't put the right county in there. But then you said sometimes we do that the Alex Becker move of misspelling something or something. So that wasn't, that was just a that was a mistake.
Speaker 2:That was, that was 100. Was it a mistake that that particular time?
Speaker 1:It was a mistake.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:I don't think so Right, because I don't open those things, mm-hmm, I don't even open them, because I usually, but I'm sure you had some good thing in there, some title or something. I was like, oh, that's interesting, a little different to catch the eye. So what, let's? I want to go a little sideways with this. Maybe the audience wants you to talk more about Facebook ads when we get to that later. But like what is?
Speaker 2:that.
Speaker 1:What is that? Synchronously like, how did, how did like. Is this just like the? The universe put us together. I was ready to meet you, you were ready to meet me, and we can tell the story too, of like, our like back and forth about. You know, we're not gonna tell you too much about our business relationship, but there was some. Yeah, let's maybe talk about that a little bit. Yeah, like meant to be.
Speaker 2:I 100% believe so it's.
Speaker 2:There's a lot to unpack on this particular concept and it's something that I've thought about for a very long time, and it's the the idea For me. Anyways, I have this internal certainty, right, I'm very spiritual person. I have this internal certainty that if I show up and I do what I believe is good and right in the world which are all definitions anyways, like context, good is another kind of. You could have a whole conversation about what's good, right, but in regardless, I believe in a certainty that the universe will connect me with the people, the place of the resources and things I need that will help me achieve bigger goals, and also that we can provide value to Right, and so, whether it's I'm providing you value, you're providing me value.
Speaker 2:I strongly believe in that type of situation, and not only that, but you know how our conversations kind of evolved, and I showed up on Our last call and I was like, hey, here's what I want to do, right, because I started thinking about this more, and I was like you know what? There's more than meets the eye here, and so, for me, I Do believe in synchronicity. I do believe that we are here to, you know, meant to have this conversation right, because it's pretty rare to be able to hit it Off kind of like how we have. I feel, anyways, and I'm excited to see where it goes.
Speaker 1:And that's so. It's the internal certainty that that's the base of it, that if I show up and want to do my best, that good, I know, we know it. I guess we could again.
Speaker 2:That's a belief that we can get there right and this is an interesting concept for me, so I've told you a little bit you know, off-camera about my personal development and how I'm obsessed with it and how I think it's the number one thing Missing from. You know humanity in a lot of ways and I can talk in the future later, if we have time, about my long-term vision for that. But regardless, when I got started on the entrepreneurial journey about eight years ago, I had no money. I was, you know, $20,000 in debt. I had $2,000 that I had charged you a credit card, that I was gambling every night hoping that you know, lebron James Didn't miss a free throw in my bankroll. Poof gone. You know what I mean like literally be gone.
Speaker 2:And at that time I still believed that because the books told me to all the the great books. So I just believe, believe, and I didn't have any evidence of it and so I just believed in it, blindly faith. You could say that things would work out, that if I just kept showing up. I always told myself I don't know when XYZ is gonna happen, but I know I'm not gonna stop and I know that if I keep going I'm gonna get there and over time things started happening. It might not have happened the timeline that I wanted or expected, but things started happening. And then, bam, things started clicking. And when I'm at Billy Jean I think that was another example of synchronicity synchronicity at the time, right where he came into my life and I was like that's it, I need to attach my thing because you can just feel it, you can see it right. And this happened over and over and over and over again.
Speaker 2:And Now I'm in a point where there's evidence that it works in my eyes, so I continue to. That certainty has been developed. It went from putting faith in other people's belief in it into now I have my own internal evidence of taking place of like, hey, if I just wake up, get after it, no, I'm not gonna quit and put myself out there, something good's gonna come back. And so that evidence has led to just a massive internal certainty and it only grows larger. And and even talking with the biggest, most successful people that I know and have been around, that level of certainty is what keeps them calm, cool and collected and continues to let them grow and grow. Now, looks back or have this certainty. Oh my gosh 100%, massive.
Speaker 1:How would he put it?
Speaker 2:boy? That's a good question. How would he put I'm trying to think of the backer way you would describe this he would In regards to that internal certainty he would be all about if you cut off everything. So he's very, very extreme. Right, you cut off everything, you focus everything on one thing. If you just focus, you actually really focus.
Speaker 2:One of the biggest things I went from Becker and this kind of goes into that certainty aspect is he looked at me one day and he told me and we were at a mastermind and he was like the reason why I beat everyone is because I get more done in four hours and most people get done in two weeks. And it was because of that focus, that certainty. So he would say you know, if you cut off everything, if you cut the BS, if you stop eating the crappy food, if you cut off the video games and you actually get after it, then that certainty it's almost guaranteed to happen. But most people are either unwilling or unable to cut off all the vices and all the instant gratifications and things like that.
Speaker 1:So would you say that he believes in will, his, his extreme will to put in more time than anyone else?
Speaker 2:Yeah, is going to produce the results that he wants and at least put him in a, at least put himself in a place where, mentally and physically, yeah, he knows he's done everything and he's because, if the if, if you think about the highest levels of entrepreneurship, if it's the goal is to see around corners and basically to be able to anticipate the future of where things are going. Because it's not a Laborist thing. Right, the top entrepreneurs are not laborist. They're the ones who have the clearest lines of thinking, they're the ones who have the deepest thinking, and so if you are able to cut out All the BS and you're able to think properly, then, yes, it would be a form of will, I would say, to be able to get things done, but also just having the clearest, sharpest thinking so that you can take the action and get the result and Basically, get more done in an hour than most people get done in days.
Speaker 1:Okay. So Because when I think of becker who I'm a fan of, by the way Similar to like a Grant Cardone super fan, not quite the way I would operate, but I would say, hey, man, I would look anything I say, because now this is out there, I would say I would say, right to that, hey, like, not quite the way it operate, man, but I have mad respect and I appreciate you know how much focus you have on what you're doing, because focus is, I, in my opinion, a superpower.
Speaker 2:Right, it really is a super power, if you can, especially in today's world right because it wouldn't.
Speaker 1:But what would a superpower be? It's basically something that a lot of people don't have, yeah, or it wouldn't be super power, right I? Where is the delineation in there? So it seems like you went more in a spiritual path and it's not only to talk about people and it's not kind of what we're talking about here, but like that, where did that spiritual path or the like we talk about faith, right, that there it is a spiritual thing. Where did that kind of start to develop for you and how was that really helped to continue to? Like, does it bring you more peace around that focus? Like it's not just about the money, like where?
Speaker 2:did that start to?
Speaker 1:come in for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, great question, and so I know exactly where it really started. So when I was much younger, my dad was very big into like the Tony Robbins, the Carlton Sheets, the Earl Nightingales of the world. He used to play those tapes for me when I was like 12, 11. We would drive back and forth to school. It didn't mean anything at the time but I still, looking back, I still believe that there was a seed that was planted by those things always being played. And then I got into like the MLMs when I was 18 and I was like if you just find five people who get eight people, you're going to get rich, and I'll never forget Melaleuca. But where it really all connected for me and just took off like a rocket ship was when I was 22 years old, maybe 23, I can't remember anymore.
Speaker 2:Right around that time I got a DUI. I had made some dumb decisions when I was younger, you know, and I was a bit of a wild child for sure early on, and I got a DUI and this was kind of like the cap. I'd been arrested three times in 18 months at that point, all for just drunk and public stuff. And one DUI I like never hurt anybody at Fort, I think the heavens, but regardless. A week after that I was given a book called A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle and it was given to me by a fraternity brother who had six months prior He'd actually driven off a cliff while in mushrooms, like he literally, literally driven off a cliff and survived, and so I'd watched his transformation over six months, because he used to be Mr Party guy and then it mean him or similar in a lot of ways. And then over the next six months he was just like straight A. You could tell something was way different about him and he had found out about the DUI. I tried to keep it under wraps from the fraternity at the time but like he was kind of like one of the big brother. Anyways, like as it was a business fraternity, it wasn't a social fraternity, so they, it wasn't something I wanted out there. Either way, he knew I told him about it. He handed me this book and I started reading it and every single page of that book woke something up with inside of me that's still difficult to describe to this day.
Speaker 2:You know, I used before the camera where I was, like it went from, like, you know, wizard of Oz, everything's black and white and also you can see in color. And I started learning about, like, why I thought the way that I thought and what the ego was, and that we're not the one. You know, that mindless monkey that's running around throwing coconuts in our brain, that's just bouncing from one thing to the other. That's not actually you, who's the person, who's watching the person think, and that right there, that moment, when I first read about the observer, it completely changed my life. There was something deeper that was going on here and that led me down a monstrous spiritual path, and that's when I started studying all of the religions. I read the dominant Pada and I started looking into the Bible and I started studying the Buddha and Krishna and all these types of things. And it's just one of those things that with the spirituality side, so that awoken it right.
Speaker 2:And for me, with spirituality, there's a quote by Wayne Dyer that I live by and I think about often, and that is how can we be so pessimistic in a world where we know so little and, at the end of the day, when people act as if they know everything, like I, I struggle with black and white because we don't even know what makes our heartbeat right, like I mean, when people don't speak in terms of context or you know continuums and different things, like it's I just, I just disagree with it. So I'm just always like, if we don't know anything about what's going on in the world, like then why would we ever be upset? And so then that just takes me deeper and deeper down the spiritual path. I'm a huge Wayne Dyer, fan of that Eckhart Tolle, wayne Dyer and there's so many in between. But they've just ignited that flame of spirituality and there's more to life than just the money or just girls or anything like that.
Speaker 1:I love the way your mind works, man, it's funny so much just came up when you, when you brought up this. So my dad actually introduced me to Wayne Dyer. It was the first place where this started for me when I was 10 years old. Yeah, I remember listening to a cassette and he went through that thoughts become things and he did remember the lemon.
Speaker 2:when he talks about the lemon, oh, yeah, and you can taste it Salivating Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And then, before I was the exit, I was in Plymouth, massachusetts, where I listened to that tape the first time and he said, alex, if you, he's like, this stuff that you're listening to here right now is something that adults never even you know he's like, this is amazing stuff, incredible, yeah. And so that led me down the road of Carlos Castaneda.
Speaker 2:I don't know if he was a big castanet fan.
Speaker 1:You don't touch that one when you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change type thing. Oh and by the way, as a side note, I sold Carlton Sheets of property here, just over the bridge.
Speaker 2:Did you really? Oh, my gosh yeah.
Speaker 1:I have a story around a guy that is a good friend of mine, who came back from the dead, who was Carlton's partner I'll tell you about him another time who envisioned that he was going to come to Florida and meet a very wealthy man. And he did. He met Carlton, became his business partner. That's crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So, at anyhow, circling back to that ego and where because I got my own theories on kind of where ego came from what are your thoughts on that? You said the person observing the thought. Did you mean that, or was that just a?
Speaker 2:I don't know about person, but whatever the soul, the spirit I look at, it more as a spirit, the real you. Yes, the real. You source, source energy. I use the term God source pretty much interchangeably. In a lot of ways, that's what we're really connected to. Is that source? Observing the thoughts that are taking place?
Speaker 1:Do you have any ideas on like where that came from?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do actually. So my thoughts are if we look at evolution which I know, we're talking about spirituality and God and creation, this isn't an evolution versus creation conversation. However, if you look at evolution and the way that the brain operates, the brain is like two million years old and it's meant to keep you alive. It's not meant to keep you happy. So the brain is a wonderful, it's a wonderful servant, but a horrible master.
Speaker 2:And so I look at the running thoughts as the brain.
Speaker 2:It's trying to protect us, it's trying to keep us out of harm's way, and there were times where, if you had a saber, two tiger chasing, you probably should freak out and go into fight or flight mode and survive. But in today's world, unfortunately, there's people that can't even go to the grocery store without getting into that fight or flight mode, and it's not necessary. And so when I think about the thoughts, I look at it as an evolutionary, wired thing that took place to keep us alive over the years, right, but it's also the more that it evolved, the more it takes away from our true nature and our true self if we don't learn what it's there for. So I think that's the answer to where you're going with the question a little bit, but that's how I view the brain. It's a two million year old brain. It's not meant to keep us happy, it's meant to keep us alive and the biggest thing is we need to understand that and realize it. As far as the ego there and it does serve a purpose in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've got a little theory that it's the concept of time right, meaning, they believe and I heard this somewhere, I don't know exactly where I heard it, but it really resonated with me that pre man like you were talking about, so this brain has been around for a long time, and then you have the reptilian brain, which is way back there, which is like run or fight what are the other, you know?
Speaker 1:Or just chill out in the sun, I have to worry about anything, or I got to run or I got to fight, like that's that which is the fighting thing you're talking about, like people that haven't, you know, mastered that it's like it's, this is a threat or it's cool. I heard, and it really resonated with me, that the concept of time was first because before agriculture it was in Northern Africa where they found that one of pre man would bury ostrich eggs with water inside them. So what that depicted and that was before agriculture, like okay, I'm going to plant a crock and then it's going to come later, right Way before agriculture, and so that that's where the concept of time came in, that in the future I'll need this, and that's kind of my belief on kind of where it started. What do you, what do you think about that?
Speaker 2:Man, we might open Pandora's box here, but I love discussing time in general and what, where time comes from and what that's about, right, because so I love the idea of, like, when we had to start gathering for the winter, predict where things are going, because, yeah, 500 years ago, even they might not have really had much concept of time, people didn't have a watch like, oh, it's going to be sunny in a little bit, but it wasn't really until agriculture and things like that we started thinking about time, but the other side of it, or not the other side, but a different view on time. That fits with with what you just stated, is time being an emotion, and so let me get. Let me explain, right. What is it like when you are having an amazing date or spending time with your best friend, or you are skiing or doing a hobby that you love? How quickly does time move? Interesting, yeah.
Speaker 1:So it meets instantly.
Speaker 2:Well, no, it moves. It moves fast, right. So by not, how quickly does time go? All that trip ended too soon. This had this went to buy too fast, right.
Speaker 1:It'll give you the flip side really quick right.
Speaker 2:So versus you're sitting, the first thing that came to mind, like, let's say, you're going to like traffic school or something like that, you got a ticket, you know, and time takes forever. Yes, and it's based on the emotion that we're describing, based on the event that's taking place, because why is it and this really goes back to relativity in Einstein and some of that stuff it's like why is it? When we're in some events, time seems like it moves, like this, but in others it takes forever? So then that's our emotional state that's leading to that, and so it's like time is just this whole crazy thing that can break down. But when I started thinking about it like that, I was like, oh my gosh, like what is time?
Speaker 1:Exactly so. We've really been sitting here for about three hours, right, because this feels awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly I would have said, I would have been surprised.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you this so I want to stay on this concept of ego. So I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I can't.
Speaker 2:So that's interesting. You bring up Stuart Wilde, and you're one that not many people have ever met know that name, and so I've listened to a lot of his stuff on YouTube, and he's got a lot of great stuff. What's interesting to me about Stuart is he went a little crazy later on in his life. So did Alan Watts too.
Speaker 1:Did he go crazy, or was he just talking about the sea's giant?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean he went. I mean he went a little deep into the spectral realm and talking about all the different things, things like that.
Speaker 1:Yes, but I mean the alcoholism you know, I know Stuart became an yeah him and Alan Watts, who's another.
Speaker 2:Alan Watts is one of my favorite thinkers that I've listened to as well too. But yes, I am familiar with Stuart Wilde and I've listened to a lot of his stuff, and a lot of it I actually think is really good. Some of the stuff about the astral planes and you know all the different things going on is a little out there. I'm always interested in hearing what people have to say about things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he did go some of his latter stuff and I didn't know he was drinking.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a ladder.
Speaker 1:Maybe, maybe that was just a ether induced dream.
Speaker 2:Maybe yeah, it's, and yeah, I love a lot of his stuff, though.
Speaker 1:So he talked about the ego kind of coming, wrapping him back around and back into Eckhart, and I hadn't read a New Earth and I love that. You saw that we've seen so many books Like that was one of the things that attracted me to the conversation with you in the beginning, where I was like this guy's an interesting guy because I saw some of your statue.
Speaker 2:That was like the first thing that you were said to me. It was like nice book collection there, you know, and he saw the statue. So I remember you said, oh, that's for secrets, Look at all this stuff Anyway it would go on. Yeah, that's one of the first things you said to me.
Speaker 1:And then, and then you know your click funnels thing with Russell Brunson, which I want to, I want to get into him a little bit later. Who do you think? Do you think that I mean obviously it was the biggest impact on you? Does it still have? Because I always say people ask me about the ego and I'm like, oh man, it's such a tough thing to describe.
Speaker 1:You know, most people think it's a puff the chest, like that's just an expression. You know it is, it is part of it, but it's like such a, it's like the tip of the iceberg of what it is. Would you still advise people if they were to say what is ego Like? That would be? You would go to a new earth, would you say to go power of now first, so that you could kind of get a premise and a foundation.
Speaker 2:You know it's a great question. Before I prescribed a book, I would ask them why do you want to know about the ego, what's the, what's the meaning behind it? And so, over the years, I've had so many people ask me about how do you stay patient, how do you stay calm, how does this that right? Team members, friends, family members and I started learning. Okay, I need to ask them why they're looking to learn deeper about a subject before I prescribe a specific book. And also, depending on their really how far they are on a journey is that will depend on what book I subscribe as well to or prescribe, right. And so the answer is yes if you're further along down the line, but it really depends on why. What are you looking to do? What's the question for it?
Speaker 2:And then I have different books that are like super easy to read or to more medium, to harder to understand, cause I will say a New Earth is a. I don't want to say it's a difficult read, but it's a different read. If you're not prepared for that type of writing, okay, you know. But if someone comes from like a Wayne Dyer background or they know who Stuart Wild is like, yeah, go read a New Earth for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I send him to Stuart Wild cause I'm like he's entertaining he is.
Speaker 2:He's great man, he's always yelling, he's got a great voice and I love, I love Stuart stuff, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And he's such a neat journey. It's neat to and Jorge always talk an eye about, or Jorge and I talk about storytelling. He's just he's an incredible storyteller. He was a comedian and all that kind of stuff too. Stand up and that. What would you say? The difference between the power now, where did a new earth, kind of take it to a new level for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the power of now really describe the idea of thoughts and being present in this moment and being aware of what's going on with your thoughts, things like that. A new earth is what took my understanding of the ego to a much deeper level, because it talks a lot about that and it talks about where it comes from and why people start to fight and why wars start to happen. At the end of the day, all the war is is egos fighting each other. It's people trying to prove a point, trying to take resources, for whatever reason, and so it builds upon it. I think it also is self-sufficient on its own, for sure, but the power of now for me was more about how to think properly, how to shift your thoughts, how to shift out of bad states, and a new earth really got me to the point where it's like this is why it's all happening, if that makes sense, okay.
Speaker 1:I like that. It's going up on the top of the pack.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a great buck man.
Speaker 1:So let's bring it back here so that maybe some folks out there that are this is the Stoic agent. I'm in real estate.
Speaker 2:We're in real estate.
Speaker 1:We're doing this, you know, and kind of along the lines of, you know, our Jim Rohn, which are you know, like anything Jim Rohn like you know, the degree of your personal development is going to be an equal portion the degree of your success.
Speaker 1:So I want to help people out there understand that it is. They want to know where the best leads are. They want to know you know, what do you say here? How do you do this? How do I say this? To get somebody to do something, and I'm like you got to start first with you, 100%. If you want to enroll people into anything, you have to be enrolled in what you're doing, which is back to that Alex Becker of like will focus and that you know we've been talking about the same thing here. But I want you to go into it of like, why you've had such great success with different things right, and that personal development side. Why do people shy away from that and they just want the magic lead?
Speaker 2:Man. I got so much to say on this topic. It's a great question. I think that, going back to the ego, a lot of people think, oh, I don't need no help, I don't need that. Oh, that Tony, like all these Tony Robbins, because he's easy for people to hate on, because he's the biggest, probably in the space. Right, and, by the way, I think Tony Robbins has had a bigger impact on me than anyone. I had talked about it in New Words, but Tony Robbins is really the guy who's done. I mean, he took it to the next level for me.
Speaker 2:But when it comes to people's reluctance for personal development, I think that they're afraid to have humility and ask you know what's wrong with me and really attack some of those weaknesses because we try and protect ourselves from it.
Speaker 2:And I think this is a really big problem in today's world because most people are distracting themselves with instant gratification to get away from having to deal with their thoughts and deal with what's actually going on internally. And I think that if people are unwilling to have humility or recognize that they could be better or anything like that, it's almost like they either don't know what they don't know or the ego is trying to protect them from that. Because when people are like, oh, I don't need a self-help seminar or blah blah and but yet like they're the angriest person alive, so okay, you keep being angry. You know what I mean and all that stuff and I is that answer question Because I can talk more about why I believe personal development. Without that it's going to be almost impossible to succeed in business or at least get going with it, at least at the levels that you know most people probably aspire to. That's my initial thoughts on it.
Speaker 1:I guess, yeah, absolutely I guess maybe dig into because I'm thinking about Will and I'm thinking about Alex Becker, right, who maybe wouldn't have this conversation. I don't know. I'd love to sit with him and see what his thoughts were on this. Maybe you can get me and have him on my podcast.
Speaker 1:But do you think that personal development helps us with our focus? Because, like that's the Becker we've gotten down to of, like I will do in four hours Is it that personal development helps us understand that the thoughts are happening and the distractions are simply us shying away from pain or whatever it is, and so that personal development helps us to stay more focused?
Speaker 2:simply, I do. I think that it's almost impossible to stay focused unless you know that you're unfocused. And being able to identify that within yourself is going to be difficult without a certain level of personal development. Right, because people aren't going to be thinking about how do I optimize my focus and how do I optimize my day and how do I create essentialism in my life, which I don't know.
Speaker 2:If you ever read that book, or one of my all time favorites too, by Greg McCown, right? How do I know what's important now? How do I create this indomitable will unless they're actually personal development, focused and minded right? And there is a danger that I will say and this is something I know Becker would say to, even though I know he's read a bazillion books and all stuff is personal development can turn into mental masturbation, right, where it's like you hear a bunch of stuff we don't actually do anything. Right? But back to the focusing how do you improve your focus if you weren't working on yourself? Right, and you're thinking about improving your focus. So I do think it's a precursor to actually getting to that point.
Speaker 1:And so there comes some faith, faith and faith that working on me is actually going to help me. Yes, you have to believe 100%, yeah, 1 million percent.
Speaker 2:You have to believe, right, like I tell this, I've told us a lot over the mastermind and I brought this up a lot during the pandemic years because I was working with agencies and a lot of them worked with local businesses, like, for example, the agency that I was involved in. We lost 45% of clients over a million dollars year in revenue in 45 days, right, because of the shutdown. And so, like, what do you do? And one of the things that's going back to belief that I would talk about with them is you got to have hope in something. Hope is not a strategy, but hope gets you to wake up in the morning to take the action it takes in order to get to where you want to go.
Speaker 2:So I use hope, belief interchangeably in a lot of ways, but hope is like, if you don't have hope that you can create a better life, that you can get to the next level, that you can make something happen. It doesn't matter what kind of leads I give you. I give you the most teetop leads in the world. You're not going to close them because you don't believe in yourself and you don't believe in where you can go, and at first you just have to have, like blind belief, or you need to borrow confidence from somebody else. And it's like if you come work on a team or with you, like with your agents, like, hey, like you might not have full faith in yourself yet because you don't have the evidence to prove it, but I believe in you and I believe if you just follow this process I've laid out for you, you're going to get there and then, okay, I'm going to have the blind faith, and then they can create the evidence, face belief, and then they can go to that next level.
Speaker 1:I love that. So let's unpack some dire and this is kind of what you're talking about, and I've said this over and over and over and I get this blank stare from people when I say it and it took me a while to like and the quote is you can't solve a problem with the same mind that created it.
Speaker 2:Get the get out of here. That is literally like the thing that I say. That's amazing, okay, sorry, like I love that quote, I live by it, I talk about it all the time and I tell that to anyone who will listen if they need to read more books. Like the only way you're going to solve the problem you have is by getting new lines of thought patterns coming into your brain, and those thought patterns aren't going to come from you. It's a source you know connection to God or spiritual, and a meditation session, right, but it's likely you need to go seek outside sources will come in, right. I think Einstein said that. Maybe Dyer talked about it as well. But it's basically like you can't solve the problem using the same line of thinking you used to create it, so you need to get outside sources. I sorry, I got really excited when he said that because, like not very many people do I know actually use that quote, but I say it all the time. My team members, everyone.
Speaker 1:So I love it. I think I love it, man we just it's crazy how much like we're. We have in common your dispenser fan. Oh yeah, Absolutely. So that's basically basically break the habit of being you who and then people like, well, what do you mean?
Speaker 1:It's like dig into that, like is it's tough to break the habit? Because we, we think we are who we think we are, but we I am not actually who I think I am, I'm something. I'm actually the observer of that. So I guess you know we could go down the line with that. But I wanted to ask you this because you had a similar epiphany experience that I did. By the way, I got my first DUI at 22. I didn't have a second one.
Speaker 2:I don't have a second one, yeah.
Speaker 1:But it didn't have the effect on me that yours did.
Speaker 2:It took me a little bit longer.
Speaker 1:About another two years, about a year and a half. So I kept going because I was like, oh, whatever, and I it was in North Carolina and I was whatever. I got a DUI down there. Then I lost my license in New Hampshire because of reciprocity and then I got two driving with a suspended license. The second one that I got is actually a felony offense, because it's three. Well, it wasn't felony, no, it was basically like go to jail type thing in New Hampshire, but anyways it was. I remember the moment here too, where my dad said to me he's like you're at a crossroads and he talked about the Crewchef letter. I don't know if you've ever heard about the Crewchef letter.
Speaker 2:I don't know that.
Speaker 1:Crewchef took over from whoever he took. I think it might have been Stalin, I'm not sure, but it was basically you get a pass on the first one and it was a letter. So it was the letter. Was you open If, when you reach this really tough problem in your life, open this letter from me. And the letter was everybody reaches, everybody makes mistakes, keep going, do your best type thing and don't do that again type deal. And then he said if you run into a problem again, open the second letter. So he ran into a problem again and you open the second letter and it said write two letters. So it's basically like you're done and I don't know where I was kind of fully going with that, other than it's an epiphany moment like you have this Unfortunately, sometimes people get really sick or whatever, and I know you had things with SEMA.
Speaker 1:You obviously were on that journey before, but it did readjust you. Oh yeah, right, when your wife got sick. So is that sometimes what it takes and like maybe you could speak to somebody out there of like, don't let it come to that second letter, to like take the action now because you're probably going to get tested really hard later.
Speaker 1:Does life want to do that to you. Is that the evolutionary process? What are your thoughts? That's a great question.
Speaker 2:I thought about this a lot and it all comes down to pain, right? I think it's the Tony Robbins quote where it's essentially when the pain of remaining the same is more than the pain of change, that's when you'll change right. Or is less than the pain of change, that's when it'll change right. And so if people aren't in enough pain so like you and I, when we're hit, those moments we might have been in so much pain internally is like, hey, I can't keep going like this. This is an issue, you know whether it's shame or you know being whatever right. Hey, I might die.
Speaker 2:Like type situation, at least, was for me. You know, if I kept going down this path, the pain was so strong that I had no choice but to change, and unfortunately, most humans do get to that point before they actually make massive shifts in their life. And so what I've learned to do and this is what I would encourage everyone to do is, if you are in a situation where you are unhappy with your finances, your weight, your relationship, whatever it might be, use the pain and turn it up in order to take action. We hear a lot about just think positive thoughts and do positive. I'm the most positive person, probably like alive, maybe not more positive than you actually get it, but you know what I'm saying. But like I'm very optimistic but also very realistic and I also I use pain often to help drive me to action in a good way.
Speaker 2:And so if you can channel the pain, you can turn up the heat on it, right. So if I'm unhappy with where I'm with my finances, I don't let them get to a point where it's, like you know, a point of no return type situation. I'll turn up the pain now and I'll go drive it for action, you know. And so, unfortunately, I don't know if it's an evolutionary thing or why humans let it do it, but it really isn't until rock bottom where we need to change. But I've learned not to let it get to that point in any area of life at this point, because I've been at some rock bottoms and so now I'm just focused on if I feel like I'm dipping below where I need to be in any of the areas mind, body, spirit, you know well that type of stuff Then I turn up the pain and I just move forward.
Speaker 1:This is. We're going to be getting in the stoicism here. So do you think that's because of that reptilian move away from pain that it's threat? And actually pain is because it's not really a saber-toothed tiger. Pain is a sign of something that we can move through, because it's going to help us evolve.
Speaker 2:I think it depends on the situation, but yes, definitely, I think that's like. It's very interesting when you think about what's fulfilling in life. The most fulfilling things are almost always at the aftermath of getting through the deep pain. If you think about it, if you're out with your buddies or you're camping or you're around a campfire or you're drinking beers, you're never like man. Remember that time when life was so easy and everything was just awesome? All the time it's like no. Do you remember when we started at a call floor and we almost went bankrupt and I had to hire 10 people and we had to hire? This is all true stories. We had to fire someone for smoking meth and we had to fire.
Speaker 2:Trying to keep a call floor staffed is brutal. All these things are. Remember when we lost 60 grand in a month and I need to make 80k to make payroll in two weeks? Those are the things that are painful in the moment. It's interesting that pain should be a trigger for us to let's go, because that's where the fulfilling is. If you're able to anchor feeling good to moving through the pain like you're describing here, that's when you can really get places in life. In my opinion, it's like man, this is what heart feels like. This is it. This is like let's go. I know what's on the other side of this. The more you start to accumulate those experiences and evidence in your life, the more often you're able to handle bigger and bigger issues that get thrown at you. So yeah, that's my first thoughts there.
Speaker 2:I could go deeper on that especially if this idea of pain and moving through it Let me see if I can prompt you to go a little deeper, For instance every time I tell you bring something, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:I do my Wim Hof breathing. I was listening to Huberman the other day and he was talking about if you guys don't know Andrew Huberman, maybe check him out with Huberman Labs, Stanford. He's got multiple degrees, but anyways, he was talking about cold baths and that you want to continue to put yourself, even though people would say, oh, you guys are at this spot or wherever, and it's like, well, I moved through a lot of pain to get here, or discomfort, if you know, let's call it discomfort. Is that a good thing? I mean, Goggins has taken it to the next level, right when I think he loves. He's like he just loves the suck. He's addicted to the suck, but it's made him Goggins rather than David, right? So talk about that a little bit. Is that kind of what we're talking about here? That you want to continue to put yourself through physical stuff and that way you're going to have less of the mental pain because you're going to strengthen your mind to that discomfort?
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I think that there's physical and there's mental pain, right Like you can put yourself through mental you know tough situations, mentally or physical. I think the physical connection between doing hard things physically absolutely makes you stronger mentally, without a question. Right, for example of this is, I mean, when I woke up hungover on the floor in Sat County. You know that physical pain of just like, just feeling it throughout my body and everything there led to so much mental strength during my business years, eight years later. I didn't know at the time it would, but I'm like, hey, you know, oh, we lost the client today. Well, it's better than being, you know, next to some guy pissing next to me in a, you know, in a jail cell on the floor type situation.
Speaker 2:Now, when it comes to things like cold baths and putting yourself in very difficult situations, I started doing CrossFit and, like I really am big on just like extreme mental or physical exertion, because I do think it helps create the improve the mental capacity on things, without a doubt, just like I think the more that you put yourself through mentally, as long as you don't break like you can stretch what you're capable of right, and so you can stretch the problems you're able to handle by taking a more mental. That's more responsibilities or more sales calls, or bigger deals, or whatever it might be. So I think there's absolutely something to that and I like to look at it where for me personally. Have you ever read the book anti fragile?
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:I've read it Naseem Taleeb or Naseem Taleeb right.
Speaker 1:Who is Neval's mentor?
Speaker 2:Yeah, did you ever see Neval's mentor? I've had a lot of conversations with him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm sure he knows him a lot. There's a book he did on anti fragility, which is basically where if you're anti fragile, the more that you get thrown at you, the stronger you get. So there's like a substance out there where it's like you just keep throwing stuff and you just like get stronger, like I just picture a superhero, so you just absorb the, whether it's a physical pain or a mental pain, and that's actually a core value that I described myself as like I'm anti fragile. Like anything gets thrown at me, all it's going to do is make me stronger. We've all heard those, those quotes like whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger, and like, yes, if you use it appropriately.
Speaker 2:But I look at everything from an anti fragile standpoint. It's literally one of my values that I try and embody. It's like, okay, great, this is just going to make me stronger, let's go add it to the hatch. And so I love cold basketball, doing a lot of type of stuff and just taking on, sometimes more than you feel comfortable taking on too, cause that's the only way that you're ever going to grow. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean the obstacles away comes the 100% right. Like it.
Speaker 2:Rather than deviating from challenges like or something that's uncomfortable like, move towards it which is so much what our brain is like what we talked about earlier is not wired for that.
Speaker 1:Let's shift gears into I'm going to go in a little bit of economics, because you brought up Nassim and he talked about risk assessment and that kind of thing, which kind of we talked. You know, the brain is very and going back to Stuart, he's like it's actually the brain or the ego it's. It's valuable, it's a tool. It's really good at balancing the checkbook. It's not always good at balancing your relationships. So I guess, when, as you've worked through, have you, have you like a set, were there any risks to you other than, I guess, if you're at kind of a certain amount of rock bottom and you're and you're not rock bottom, but you know you're gambling, you know to make a living right, like in hoping and wishing, like you know, how do you, how do you now assess risk?
Speaker 1:and what you're, what you, what's your kind of your compass for what you want to?
Speaker 2:take on. Yeah, one of my favorite topics right now is risk, because risk is something that every single one of us calculates, whether we know it or not, on a daily basis. Walking outside, walking across the street, there is a risk to be had, and most people are horrible at understanding the data behind the risk, right? The easy example of this is the people who are terrified to fly on airplanes, yet they have no problem getting in a car, even though you're, like, 37 times more likely to get hurt in a car than you are in an airplane. There's no risk assessment there, right, and that's okay. Most people don't train their brains to think about it. But it's interesting to bring up the gambling. So my cousin, who was my mentor and basically helping me along the line here, has been a professional gambler for 14 years. So we're talking statistical projection algorithms, risk management, bankroll equity value, like positions, like I mean, it's treated like a business, it's all the way through, and so that was one of my some of my first introductions into understanding risk, and so whenever I'm going to anything, I always think about risk, because and this ties into decision making, which I don't know if you've ever thought about decision making, but that's something else that no one ever talks about how do you make decisions and how do you make a good decision? How do you filter your decisions through? But part of my filtering aspects that I have whenever I'm making a decision is the risk aspect, especially when we're talking about business or anything financially related. And so when I was getting started, I knew that the biggest risk I had was that I could get a job the next day as a sales rep, and so that's where having the skill set was very beneficial to me at the time, because everyone needs to get salespeople. You need them, I need them, we always need them right. It's still. It's to me. If anyone ever asks like what should I do? I just want to make money. I'm like go learn how to sell. Like you'll be okay, you know pretty much forever if you learn how to sell right Within context, of course. So back then there wasn't much risk.
Speaker 2:These days, what I think about now is I think about when I'm thinking about risk first, I think about the reversibility of the decision, right, and so what I mean by that is how reversible is what I'm about to do If I'm going to launch a new funnel and spend $10,000 on ads. No big deal. That's not a huge deal to me, right? I mean $10,000, it's all in context how much that money is to people. But like I'm not going to blow up the business, I'm not going to do anything crazy, right? If I'm working with medical doctors and all of a sudden I'm going to stop working with medical doctors and shift completely gears and work with a completely different market, well, there's some much bigger irreversible risks that takes place there. I'm going to lose all this clientele, I'm going to lose all the market, that type of stuff, right. So I grade the decision making based off of what the risk is going to look like, and I start with the reversibility of the risk, and then the next thing I go into is what's the likelihood of achievement?
Speaker 2:A lot of people don't always think about this stuff. You know it's like I'm not naive to think that you know every single funnel, every new product line or every new expansion is actually going to work out. I try and really think about what's the likelihood that I'm actually going to make this work right. And then the next thing that I go into when it comes down to risk is how much time, money and resources is it going to be From me, from the team? They could be applied elsewhere. Because another thing that people don't think a lot and I try and often remind myself of the risk is every decision you make is risky because whenever you focus your attention on one area, it means you're, by definition, saying no to a million other things that could lead to you know a better risk. So I'm not sure this is the way you want to go with it, but I love talking deeply about risk because I look at it in all aspects of life and now in real estate and investing and things like that.
Speaker 2:Like there is a lot of inherent risk involved. There can be downside risks to things. If I buy a property at the top of the market, an appreciation goes under and I'm only buying for appreciation. I don't have cash flow on the property. There's huge risk there, right Taking on a huge project in a market that you know massive interest rates, like all the multifamily stuff. I don't know if you're seeing what's going down with some of the multifamilies that you know are coming up on their refi, their balloon payments. They need to pay back in the next year or two and they got in at 2 and 3%. What's going to happen when you go from 3% on a multi to a 7%? All your cap rate or your cash flow is gone, your overnight underwater, you know. And so, yeah, I could keep going on this, but like I love the topic of risk, Let me ask you this Do you think so we can help these folks?
Speaker 1:Because these are our thoughts, so like. So we want to give them some some actual, palpable, tangible philosophies and simple stuff. We can't solve a problem in the same mind they created. How do you, how do you solve your mind? Well, you got to work on yourself and you got to figure out that you're the observer. That kind of stuff, Would you say. That skill mitigates risk Absolutely 100%. So if you're getting the sales skills, absolutely mitigates that you, that your company goes under. Well, you can go sell someplace else 100%. So if you don't up your skills, then you're at a job that doesn't take a lot of skills, right, but you have, and also you haven't taken any risk, which is risking ego, to learn something new 100%.
Speaker 2:Skill mitigates risk. I think Buffett as a quote and this is totally paraphrasing it, but essentially it's like it's only risky if you don't know what you're doing. And I love that you know he's like, but it's sock markets only risky if you don't know what you're doing. Right. But back to what you're saying about the ego and learning new skills. I'm convinced personally this is just through observation that most humans are afraid of that suck phase and looking bad and that's why they don't go learn new skills. That's why they don't try new ventures. That's why they don't go out and do new things. They're afraid to suck at something at first and be the new, the rookie on the block, right, when in reality, the only way to actually get good at something is to first suck. Everyone sucks in the beginning, but most people are unwilling to do that, whether it's fear of ostracization from society or their husband or their spouse is unfortunate. I've worked with so many entrepreneurs where the spouses have not been aligned in regards to what they want to do and that's brought them down. I'll just come back where it's safe, right and so, yes, I think skill mitigates risk and I also think that it's okay to suck. Of course you're going to suck.
Speaker 2:It would be unreasonable for you to believe you were good. I was talking to my wife about it, where in the last two months we've got three properties under contract and we're actually four. We just closed on one right and just in the last two months we were evaluating our 60 days and I was like I should be at like 20, but it's unreasonable for me to expect to be doing $200, $300,000 a month in the last 60 days right For where things are, and so with that I remind myself it's unreasonable. I've been in the investing game for only a couple of years. I've been focused on it heavily for a little less than a year and really over the. I mean, we took time off with my wife and everything going on there, but like it would be unreasonable for me to expect to where I would need to be, and so I think that if people understood that and it's okay to suck, maybe they would feel more comfortable going out and jumping in and learning something new.
Speaker 1:Do you think that has a lot to do with status? 100%, Everything does as a marketer, Like because we know it's sales oh my gosh, it's all status.
Speaker 2:It's status, right, everything's status. And what's interesting about the status side of things is this goes both ways. It's not just the Lamborghinis and the Jets and the girls. It's the mom who wants to drive the minivan who's like oh, I can't be seen in the, I can't be seen in a Ferrari. Right, like it's everywhere. Everything comes down to status, which is so interesting when you really think about it. We're so.
Speaker 2:I'll share this with you because this is something that I will actually learn at Landmark Forum. I don't know if you're familiar with what they're. You know we're at Earhart and S Training and everything. But this concept that all of us are walking around terrified of what each other think about each other, what we all think about each other, right, is amazing to me when, in reality, no one's thinking about you, they're thinking about what you're thinking about them.
Speaker 2:And I remind myself of that so often when we're sitting at home and worried about a conversation we had with somebody and how they might be, they took it the wrong way, or they're upset and I'm like, oh, that person sitting in the house worried about a conversation they had and how they're being viewed, right, and we're all terrified of each other. You know seven million of us walking around and it's like why do we care so much about what each other think? Because it ties directly into status. I think about that often because I'm not a saint. I worry about it sometimes. I worry about it as well. You know much less than I used to and I'm always trying to chip away at that. You know ego side of things right. But it's like, why are we also worried about what we think of each other when, like, no one's actually thinking about us? They're thinking about what you think about them, and that's a concept I think of all the time.
Speaker 1:Russell Brunson brought that up. I never understood that really with the sales side, that people buy things based on status. But status isn't always that. Some people buy the Lamborghini and can't afford it because they want to have seemingly a higher status. Some want to buy the Lamborghini because it shows their status as being wealthy. Others can afford the Lamborghini but actually drive the minivan because they don't want their neighbors to think that their status is 100%. I never really kind of thought about it all. It really does come down to a lot of what we do and think and believe is status, and that's what you do, I mean as a marketer.
Speaker 2:Sometimes it's sad when I have to see what takes place with copywriting and what it takes to actually move people. I've come to just live with it, as long as I'm not lying or misportraying the truth. I'm going to give you an example. So we worked with a medical clinic that was focused on weight loss. It was Mediweight Loss was the clinic and it was the franchise with a bunch of locations. Anyways, when we had first originally launched an ad, we said free weight loss consultation. Come in, lose weight. Blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 2:Ads didn't go so well. It was like $40 cost per lead and this was several years ago on Facebook and I remember looking at the ads and I was working with our copywriting team and I looked at it and I was like you know, no one wants to lose weight, no one wants to think about their losing weight. What if we said free metabolic imbalance consultation and all we did was shift the words weight loss to metabolic imbalance? The kid you not, swear to God, $40 cost per lead to $4 cost per lead blew up overnight. Same exact backhand sale took place, but just by shifting the term from weight loss to metabolic imbalance, because every female it's not every, and this is no offense females but like.
Speaker 2:This is human nature, and this is my observation, and I've run a lot of ads at this, so I can speak to this they don't want to think they have a weight loss problem. They think they have a thyroid problem or their metabolism is imbalanced. Well, guess what happens if you lose a bunch of weight? Your thyroid improves and your metabolism improves. So it's the same thing. And so that's just one example of a mini that I could give in regards to what it takes to move people. But yeah, and that also, anyways, also comes back to status Right, because that ties right back into it. You don't want to tell people ah, you know, I, I didn't go lose weight. It's like, no, I've got a metabolic imbalance problem, you know, that's why I can't lose weight, you know. And so it's just. That's the one example always sticks in my head because I still can't believe that, and that's when I knew I was like man, this is going to be fun. This is going to be fun to see.
Speaker 1:I simply changed a few words. Yep, and, yeah, the description of it same backhand product, nothing else changed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's happened. I've seen that happen so many times when you do things, so into status.
Speaker 1:My mentor, one of my mentors, carlos German and I'm sure he didn't come up with this himself, but he said people are motivated by three things money, recognition and impact. What do you think about that? Because I think that the status is recognition, right? Oh, I'm being recognized as being part of the pack, or maybe I'm being recognized as being higher, or I'm being put on a pedestal. What do you think about that concept of? Would you if I ask you this do you think there's something else that motivates people other than recognition, money or impact?
Speaker 2:You know, the one thing that I depending on the context of when that was described I think that avoiding pain and avoiding loss, loss aversion, is one of the biggest things that motivates people. So because, while I agree recognition, money, impact I could argue that all three of those are directly correlated to status too, you know, because they're all for status. Why do you want to have an impact? Because you want to increase your status. Yeah, you want to feel good, but, come on, we all feel good when everyone else feels good, right, but loss aversion, as far as moving people, is huge, right, and so I think Brunson talked about this, but basically, no more than 3% of the population actually wants to improve.
Speaker 2:There's like 97% who just want to find a new way. That's his whole new opportunity thing. He's like you don't want an improvement offer, you want a new opportunity offer, right, you don't want to get better at something with a whole new way of doing it. And so this concept of loss aversion and new opportunity really moves people. Because you've heard that people are much. They will fight much harder not to lose a dollar than they will to gain $10. You know, and so that would be the one thing that would add, you know in a quick context on that all of which leads to status Goes back to status.
Speaker 2:All of them point straight to status.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's interesting. So the concept of impact I wanted to dive into that because I think we go for me, building, you know it goes this is back to his name escapes me for a second, but it'll come in a second is that we don't build businesses, we build people and people build businesses, right. So in order to build people, we need to build ourselves first. So what do you think about that? Do you think that because you've built multiple businesses and now you know we need to, like I have a lot of people come to me that want to start teams? Right, they want to start teams because a lot of them want money and they want it easier.
Speaker 2:They got other people doing things yeah. Seriously, like they think oh, you just started a team, I'm going to start a team that seems like the way to go.
Speaker 1:I'm going to make more money because other people are going to sell properties that I'm not going to have to.
Speaker 2:It's possible, yes, of course.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, I mean, but dig into that a little bit, I guess. Do you think they're in?
Speaker 2:gosh, it's, it's um, but anyways yeah, so I can talk a lot about this. It is a skill, first and foremost. Naval brought this up in his amazing book, the Dominic of Naval. I had already seen this. He confirmed what I had observed and been a part of, and that is that scaling labor and humans is by far the hardest part of business. Humans in general, they're irrational, we're erratic, we're all irrational, myself included. Right, we're not logical, based on emotion, all that stuff. So it's a very difficult thing to scale labor.
Speaker 2:But, with that said, that is also where you're gonna get the biggest leverage. I mean, there's the four forms leverage, but massive leverage will come from having humans who want to fight on your behalf and who want to work for you and who see the vision you know, and so with that, you are bringing up the, the teams, right. I just heard quote recently and I love this. But it's also like Steve Jobs didn't build the iPhone. He built the team that built the iPhone right, and so that's the truth.
Speaker 2:But it's also way more difficult than what I think people seem to think it is, and Especially if you've never been in a position where you actually have to run teams of people you really don't understand at all and I say this with love like I hear employees who like, oh yeah, this business owners rich. I'm just not gonna show up today, and it's like the local freaking you know deli or something. It's like, no, I don't think you understand how this works, right, but regardless, it also becomes some of the most rewarding stuff when you are able to work with people, help them grow Facilities, things. But, my gosh, it doesn't make things easier. It's significantly more challenging, but it's also one of those things where you gain leverage and that can lead to more exponential results in the future and you know we were talking about it yesterday.
Speaker 1:We had this whole vision board thing which we went over the 10 C's and I'll show you the vision board in that. But I had a vision, you know, going on four years ago and I was a completely different person then. I still had done Listen to Stuart Wilde and a lot of this stuff, but I still had a lot of ego and I still do and I love your humility around that, knowing like I'm a rational 100%.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yes, right, like I don't know, and I'll have folks come to me on the team. I had to have one yesterday and she's like, are you so wise and you send me this thing? But I was wondering if and I'm like I am Not wise I mean I've learned some things along the way and I'm imparting that on you and but also know that when I impart this Stuff on you, it helps to me to continue to crystallize into me. So it's not all for you. Like I do care about you and I want you to grow and that means a lot to me to see you grow. Like that, I feel that I know exactly where I'm going with this, other than it just impact like. Well, I'll talk about humility for a second.
Speaker 2:Yeah, please, because you know, to me and I actually said this to to my dad, who's in acquisitions for me right the other day and I was talking to him about the number one thing that I'm looking for and I think that is most important to grow anywhere in life and that is the concept of humility. They be able to take feedback and implement it without being instantly triggered. And the reason why I brought it up to him is because I'm giving a lot of feedback and it's kind of an interesting dynamic because it's okay, here I am, like you know, teaching my dad how to do stuff right and here to work and how to grow and do these things, etc. Right. But the reason why it popped up for me was that's. You know, I'm part of a mastermind. We're part of a group that you know real estate investing. You know All that stuff I'm learning from from people are doing way more than me. I believe in investing in yourself. I've spent over half a million dollars myself and personal development coaches and all domains, any who.
Speaker 2:I Was talking with him about sales and he was giving me some feedback on stuff and I've been the one running masterminds for several years and what was funny was my initial response was like man, do you think you mean, I'm the absolute? But it was a split second and I was like he's right, he's giving good advice, is here. And what I found interesting in that moment was going back to what I talked about before. Where I'm not or I'm not perfect, was I'd immediately had like this visceral response like man, who do you mean you're coaching me on how to sell stuff? What's going on, you know? But it was gone immediately. And then I took the feedback and I wanted right. So it didn't hang, it didn't linger, but I just got to thinking about like man, if I'm still susceptible, is, after all, this money I paid and I'm paying this guy. Don't learn from it. It's still there. Think about other people, right?
Speaker 2:And so humility is one of the most important things I look for in anybody Humility. Everyone always says integrity. I feel like that should be an obvious one. Right, you got to do the right thing and you know being a person of your word, but humility is really the big one. Do you, does the person that on my team or myself? Do we always have an excuse for why it's not again? Do we always pop back? Do we always, you know, or do we take the feedback and implement it?
Speaker 2:You know, and I just think it's so critical when I look at the employees who, several of which have gone on to create Amazing businesses, lead amazing careers, do all kinds of cool stuff, they were always the ones who are constantly asking for more and asking for feedback. And so I just think humility is such an amazing character trait to develop and it's hard, because it's hard to be told that you're doing something wrong or an effective or not well by anyone, even if you respect the person. And so I bring that up because I'm like man, like I remember the split second response, like man, that was weird and that the observer came in and it's like, why would you even think that? Like, of course, you're here to learn, you know, and so, anyways, I just wanted to bring that up.
Speaker 1:I love that. Yeah, we have a model of hungry, humble and coachable Mmm. I like that. So if and I think those are you know, hunger is not something you can teach. Yeah, like you know. I mean, some people are doing it to feed their family and others can. Why is that? Why?
Speaker 2:isn't. So this is a great question and I agree with you with hunger right and you know I'll hear Tony Robbins. I remember he said this like a decade ago. He's like the number one difference between the people making those who don't is hunger. This insatiable hunger. Is it something that can't be taught? How does it get lightened? Is it a flame that can be lit by somebody at some point? Do they need to be in a specific scenario in order to create it? Why do some people seem to have hunger and some don't? I'm curious your thoughts on this. It's something I've struggled with it's interesting man.
Speaker 1:I don't I. I think sometimes it comes from and I'm meant to be asking the questions, but I appreciate.
Speaker 2:I'm genuinely curious. I want to hear it because I'm struggling.
Speaker 1:I think that it comes from different places. Meaning it, I Summed and I ask a lot of questions now. I used to not ask as many questions and I saw that that comes down to you're gonna find out a lot more. You're gonna ask tough questions now so that you don't have really tough situations later. And that's kind of what I was doing with you. You know, because I've had so many of these things of like you know, this is gonna solve a lot of your problems and I didn't ask enough questions, right, and I wasn't. And I did it with you and I was really look back on a lot of our conversations it was like it was such a I think I was in such a good place like hey, man, like Listen, I've been, I've been approached by so many different people and I'm going on a side note.
Speaker 1:But back to hunger. Sometimes it comes from you absolutely have to feed your family, right, you are gonna like a mother their child. I have a daughter, but before I even had a daughter, my daughter has special needs. I'm like, and I have enough right enough, that hunger in me is something that my dad kind of taught me. I remember him on the racquetball court, just all over the place diving for things, and it was like I always wanted to be like my dad, so that that kind of came from that.
Speaker 1:I think back on that it's like I'm just gonna go hard. I don't know what that was, I don't know where he got it from. So that's one. I think we learn it from our parents to a certain degree. And then I think there's something innately in some of us probably more women, to be honest that are like they got to take care of their kids, like this is just nurturing thing. It's not just for me. If it's not just for me and I am responsible for somebody else, I'm gonna have hunger and I'm gonna go after it. I don't know, what do you? What do you think, man? I mean, it's a. It's a tough one to crack because I still haven't Figured it out hundred percent.
Speaker 2:That's why I asked I'm asking anyone that I know who brings that up right about that. I love your point about asking questions. By the way you change your questions, change your life. Like questions are the answer. Like literally With that, with hunger and man. I've thought about this so much because I'm like man, if everyone, if they just operated like I, like I don't get it. But then I look in internally and I'm like, well, I've had to learn how to like turn off and like slow it down. You know what I mean. And so I've almost had to do like the opposite. Sometimes, I'm gonna say Sometimes I look at individuals and I'm like man, that must be nice.
Speaker 2:I like are you really actually happy right now? Or you know with what they're doing? Because they're not constantly thinking about something or growing or building and all that type of stuff, right, and so I know I'm kind of just rambling here, but, like with hunger, I think that it can be the way I've. I look at almost like a flame. I think it can be stoked in the right individual if the right conditions are placed upon that individual. Right, I do. I truly believe this might be the optimism in me that it is not a either you have it or you don't. I think it's either you have it currently or you don't, based on the conditions that you're experiencing within your life. And maybe some people go through life and they ever actually get to the point where they need to wake up every day and attack and hunt, feel good and get after it and grow and push themselves to the limit, and maybe they're you know just whatever happy with doing, with whatever they want. But I do think that if the right conditions are presented amongst people, that they can then Flip that switch on, similar to a mother who needs to protect their child, or a father is about good to go to bankruptcy or whatever it might be. And so that's kind of been my thoughts on it.
Speaker 2:The other side of this coin, to, because people have asked me, like, how do you stay motivated? Like we know, how do you keep going? Like why don't you take a break or do that stuff? And I do take breaks and but it's like one. I fell in love with the game. I love business, I love marketing, I love investments, I love conversations like this, I love personal development, all that stuff. And to I Found that when I so, like I'm an addiction chaser, we'll just say it how it is right, because, but I've learned to shift my addictions from Destructive to positive ones and I've been able to anchor what happens if I work hard and build something in the Joy that comes from that, in the fulfillment to doing the work. And so that's what keeps me hungry and going, because, like, I know that if I stop and do nothing I'm gonna be bored, I'm not gonna go anywhere, right.
Speaker 2:And so I always manufacture this gun to the head, urgency of getting things done, and so, like, whenever someone's asks and then we're kind of going to shifting topics here, but it's for the audience. If you're like, hey, like how do you, how do I get going? It's like, well, this is an extreme example, but I heard it from Gary Vee. He's like picture a gun to your family member's head and you have to go solve the problem in the next 12 months. Would you be able to make a million dollars? Anyone in this country right now, if there was a gun to the loved ones head in 12 months, would be able to make a million dollars in my opinion. Right, I think they could like with that urgency.
Speaker 2:But most people don't attack with that urgency, because what happens in the United States in 2023? If you don't do much not a whole lot someone's gonna come, take care of you're gonna be able to get by, someone will hand you something you know, and so, long story short, hunger is something that eludes. I always ask myself how do people get hungry, how do I find more people like that, and can it be stoked? Can I stoke it? Does it? The external conditions need to be met. Where does it come from?
Speaker 1:I think this is something that I've been working on too. I think that If you have an employee mindset, it's it's figuring out to how to do as little if you don't have upward mobility, quite quitting.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly like you're gonna do as little as you can to get by in some instances, but if there's a potential for upward mobility, if there's something more, so it's good. No, what I'm trying to do and in a line with companies and certain things that I'm doing is there has to be something more, meaning it's it's not gonna be just selling houses, but maybe you love to do that. That. That will have its own hunger, right, like you. Like it goes back to our Our good friend of all, right, like, do what? The definition or people that are successful, what they do, what feels like play to them seems like work to others, right? So if you love selling houses and that's just something you love, you're gonna go out and you don't even. It's not hunger, it's just like I love to do this. Maybe you don't love to do it, which I don't loathe it, because I've done.
Speaker 1:I've dug ditches in Australia and the outback around Aboriginals and have seen, you know, like poverty and had flies buzzing around me and like, okay, that's really tough. You know scrubbing boats tough. So that's part of what also drove my hunger to do this of like I don't want to go back to that. So there's, there's the pain right, pain aversion or, like you know, I want to be the guy on the dock we talked about that. You didn't want to be the guy selling the sweets, you want to own the sweet right. So there's that bigger vision that drives that hunger. So, having people in an organization I think they have to be I think what helps them with their hunger is saying, hey, you know, down the road, there is something more for this daily activity, and that's that anchoring the daily activity to Something bigger in the future. Hundred percent status.
Speaker 2:Yes, I All so much here comes back to status.
Speaker 2:I agree and that's so true in every aspect of life, like anchoring eating the meat and rice and salad today versus eating McDonald's, right, anchoring going to the gym to what's gonna go in the future, which leads to another thought that I, you know, wanted to share at some point in this conversation, which is so what I think is huge is I think the future is going to be dictated by people who are able to focus in today's world and who are also able to Forgo short-term gratification For long-term gains, right?
Speaker 2:So, because in today's world, where we have short-term gratification is Everywhere, you can get any vice that you want at any point in time by one click of a button, right, and so being able to forego those things for the long-term gratification Is going to be the people who, I believe, run the world, because that and those are directly correlated with focus. In my opinion, it's a lot easier to doom scroll Instagram than it is to open a book, you know, and so I think that that's such an important concept in today's world, and I wish it was being discussed more with our kids and children in school and things like that, but it's something I think about all the time. It's like, okay, how do I forego short-term gratification for long-term gains?
Speaker 1:Hmm, I Think along that lines, on another parallel, that the people that are going to make it back to our AI Conversation, the people that are going to make it and I see it in our industry, and this is just kind of a thought I'll throw out there we can be. I think that a real estate agent could be replaced by AGI and even maybe not even AGI, but something that was able to bring together a lot of different things that Alexa is already listening to us on. Right now that you want to go buy a house, this thing can be answer every real estate question that you ever did. It also can integrate the phone with inspection reports. Property history blockchain is gonna do away with title. Oh, yeah, right that it's not hard to do this. This is not conspiracy theories. It's not tough to like connect the dots on this. But anyways, back to us.
Speaker 1:Where I say to the real estate agents out there is Is make your skill set that much higher, because I do think that this thing, connected with AI, is gonna be able to answer, probably, and say well, what do you think? What do you think I should write an offer on this property for? Well, based on that, that, I mean, zillow's got the algorithm and then and it's got this and you know you already scan the house, it's got you know wood rot here or this or that there and based on the age, and da, da, da, da. And it already checked the person's Facebook history and sees what you know that they got a divorce. So we got it. Calculates a lot of different things right, but at the end there's still gonna be that consumer Maybe that does the carvana and just buys the house or it makes the offer would have you. But I still think that the last bastion for the real estate agent is gonna be in critical thinking of saying this is what this thing tells me I should do. What do you think?
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100% the same. That's the same exact way that I look at marketers and copywriters.
Speaker 2:I have the same Viewpoint on it. You also still need the real estate agent who can help program the AI and make sense of it. Chat GPT can do good stuff with the right prompts with the right prompt, engineering right, but you still need someone who's actually good at the thing to look at and be like, hey, is this a good idea or not? You know to confirm it. And so I agree, because I agree with everything you just said. The very first and most obvious use case to me For blockchain to really take over is Title right, because the first thing you look at there's way too many parties to a real estate transaction. It should not be this difficult all to keep track of a ledger. I understand why it is right, but the blockchain should be able to keep Apple leans and the title and all this stuff like that's common. Now we have to wait for governments to approve it, so it's gonna be a while, probably, and all that, but that, in my opinion, is coming. But I agree with you 100% if you level up your skill set, really what it's gonna do in a lot of ways, too, is it can, it's gonna continue To drive a bigger gap between, like, those who have a lot and those who don't. You know, which is another interesting topic.
Speaker 2:I don't want to say that like I'm someone like who's against Musker.
Speaker 2:You know those guys because I'm not at all.
Speaker 2:Because if you think about the gap, yes, the gap between me and Elon Musk, it's pretty freakin substantial and I do okay, but you know it's pretty big. But what that said, I'm still doing okay. So, even though the gap and this is something I don't get all the rich and the poor, right, but if you look at like the lifestyle that a lot of people have and I'm not saying there isn't poverty, there's massive poverty but just because the gap between me and Elon Musk is way bigger than any time in history, right, even like peasants and kings doesn't mean that my life is worse or not where it should be, if that makes sense. I don't think enough people necessarily talk about that. So I think that overall quality of life is gonna continue to improve, but there are gonna be even more people in that musk realm who really are the top of their craft, because more and more people are Gonna have all of their needs met from AI and all the stuff that's coming down the pipeline, you know I think this is our second episode, man.
Speaker 2:I would talk so deep on it. I love it yeah.
Speaker 1:But we have a, we got a time commitment here, so excited actually to go out and see some property with you and show you this area. And, man, I just want to say how interesting it was that we met and you know, I feel, and genuinely, like we've actually known each other for a long time. I think that our paths have been on a parallel path. I'm a little older than you, but I think that we have very parallel paths and I do believe in the universe and I'm just very thankful that it put us together because I already Appreciate you deeply. Thank you, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I'm getting real. You know sappy here, but it's true, and I want to say thank you for your time here because I know about how valuable this has been a blast, man, I love it.
Speaker 2:And yes, episode two, let's. Let's keep going with it. We'll come back, and you know we're making regular thing over the next several years is our relationship grows and we do a lot Of big things together, so that's, that's the goal. Awesome. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Nick, of course.