Brandon Reed of 12 Hour Sound Machines + Emma Miller

Welcome to The Not So Late Show Episode- Nine featuring special guest Brandon Reed of 12 Hour Sound Machines  + the talented Emma Miller with the song Outside from her upcoming ep Artifact.

Increase your ability to tune out the world and excel in the office or to step up your sleep game with 12 Hour SoundMachines!
https://12HourSoundMachines.com/

Follow Emma Miller on all platforms:
https://linktr.ee/ohemmamiller

The Not So Late Theme Composed By:
Mikael Carnevali

All Songs Performed by:
The Not So Late Band Featuring:
Juan Ignacio Varela Espinoza - Sax, some Keys and some Guitars
Tomas Torres - Guitar
Edú Gabriel - Bass
Manu Figue - Drums
Fran Donadio - Keys


Blue Last/ Prueba Hammon/Juani Gruv - Composed by Juan Ignacio Varela Espinoza

Hosted by Crypto Kyle:
https://twitter.com/cryptokylemqt

Second Banana/ John Byrnes
https://twitter.com/aiJ0hn

Band Leader:
Juan Ignacio Varela Espinoza

Head of Animation/Set Designer/ Tailor
Nick Zimmer
https://twitter.com/zimmetrydesigns

Writing Team:
Jarrod G. , John Byrnes, Crypto Kyle

This is a Moon Vibes Media Production © 2023

Official Website / Twitter/Subscribe

Transcript

John Byrnes: [00:00:00] And

we've got a spectacular show in store for you tonight with special guest Brandon 

Reed from 12 Hour Sound Machines.

And later a musical performance from her upcoming 

Project Artifacts, Emma Miller.

But first roll up your sleeves and [00:01:00] please welcome your host,

Kyle Barron.

Kyle Barron: Welcome to the show. So glad to have you all here. We have a great episode. As John just forewarned you, , I'm so pumped for the guests that we have here today. And honestly, it's a good day. March 30th, what a date. My brother was born on the state, by the way, so happy birthday. It's my brother Klint. Love you dude.

But yes, John, how you feeling buddy?

John Byrnes: Doing great. My favorite day of the week, so happy to be here, ready for the weekend as usual, feeling good. 

Kyle Barron: Yes, definitely good. Thursdays get any sweeter? ? I'm not sure. , 

John Byrnes: I don't know. Sweeter every week. I feel though, . 

Kyle Barron: That's true. That's true. Oh man lots of [00:02:00] things going on in the way of news and in the way of entertainment and music. So we'll dive right in cause we have an action packed episode today, but John Succession is back, my friend. Oh yeah. This is the show where the rich argue about who inherits the company.

John Byrnes: Yeah. That family, circus of Chaos, I like to call it. It's like a Shakespearean tragedy, but worse haircuts. More profanity and a bit less. I am Panter 

Kyle Barron: Makes our own families look like the Brady Bunch. . , I hear they're releasing succession inspired greeting guards, by the way.

John Byrnes: Oh man, I can imagine it now congrats on your divorce. You cunning snake. Pass the popcorn and let's just enjoy this dysfunction, . 

Kyle Barron: That would be incredible. . Oh, man. Oh, 

John Byrnes: This one, maybe hits a little closer home for you. Did you hear about this chemical spiller? I'm sure you did in Philadelphia that caused a bit of a water scare?

Yeah. Yeah. The Philly Water Surprise. They're [00:03:00] calling it yeah. I thought that was a new cocktail. . 

Yeah, more like a cocktail of disaster. Apparently it had people questioning the safety of their tap water. What about you? 

Kyle Barron: As if people trusted it before . But honestly, John, they kept moving back the timeline.

I remember I was out, going about my day on Sunday and we, received like the blast message right from, whatever the, what is it? The water chamber of commerce, whatever they call those people, . And it said, there was a spill. The water has possibly been breached please stop drinking the water at 1159 this evening.

So of course everybody ran to the stores and bomber water, and I'm like, 1159, are you serious? Then of course, they moved that to 1159 Monday nights, and then, oh, in the afternoon on Tuesday, and now the afternoon Wednesday. Now it's Thursday. I don't know if they've figured it out. I think they said it's safe to drink now, but those guys aren't gonna get me what they're trying to save us by a minute.

I quit drinking water [00:04:00] immediately Sunday afternoon. 

John Byrnes: So what at 1159, you're good. Take that last sip, but then at midnight, it's over. 

Kyle Barron: Yeah. Wow. Yep it's really interesting. I switched off right away. I said, they're not gonna get me. I went, I switched immediately to the soda stream.

There you go. . 

John Byrnes: Kyle, where do you, where do you think that 

Kyle Barron: water's coming from? Man, I got outta the faucet. , alright. 

John Byrnes: Right. Well, I guess it's time to invest in some bottled water stocks. 

Kyle Barron: Huh? . . Yeah. I mean, it's, it changes it in the soda, but anyways, you right. Yeah, you've seen this video. It's trending late last week into this week.

Alright, so in this TikTok video, there's a police standoff and guess who decides to make a grand entrance? 

John Byrnes: Let me take a while. Guess. Pizza guy trying to save the day with a little bit 

of extra pepperoni.

Kyle Barron: Close, but no, it was the Amazon Prime delivery guy just casually crossing the police line to deliver a package.

We're gonna share just a little bit of the audio for you right now, and then we'll come back and just give you a play by play. Wow. Hard at 

music: [00:05:00] work.

In the midst of a standoff, 

Kyle Barron: he's gonna deliver his package. 

music: I don't give up. Amazon don't play

John Byrnes: I'm sure that kind of dedication would, even delight, Jeff Bezos, not even an active crime scene, can stop us from delivering your package on time. 

Kyle Barron: Exactly. I wonder if the SWAT team had to sign for it. Excuse me. Officer, can you just sign here please? Don't mind the Bulletproof Fest , 

John Byrnes: and if you could just rate your delivery 

Kyle Barron: experience, that'd be great.

But before the delivery guy can reach the doorstep, an officer did actually stop him and took the package from him. Ah, the classic 

John Byrnes: handoff, we'll take it from your citizen. Go forth and 

Kyle Barron: deliver more packages. , yeah, I guess you could say that's taking, protect and serve to a whole new level. 

John Byrnes: Seriously though, if that's not a five-star delivery experience, 

Kyle Barron: I don't know.

Oh man, . John, I don't know if you caught the news. I'm sure you did, but Gwyneth [00:06:00] Paltrow and her ski collision trial. 

John Byrnes: You mean the one where she's accused of playing some, high speed bumper cars on the ski slopes? 

Kyle Barron: Oh man. That's the one, it's not every day you hear about an Oscar-winning actress being involved in a skiing accident lawsuit.

Yeah, I guess she's just 

trying to slide her way outta trouble at this 

point. Or maybe she's just testing a new goop product. Extreme ski Eva, that won't say collision avoidance technique. warning 

John Byrnes: results may vary. Side effects include lawsuits and public scrutiny. , 

Kyle Barron: seriously though you think celebrities would've people to help them avoid this sort of situation?

You mean like a personal ski instructor , uh, or maybe it's him of bodyguards to help clear the path. . 

John Byrnes: Wow. That's a fun, uh, image to see what's up. The trial doesn't 

Kyle Barron: snowball out of control here. Oh, man. Agreed. In the meantime, I'll stick to my bunny slopes and hot cocoa. Thank you much. Hey, I'm right there with you,

So did you see, uh, 

John Byrnes: Adam Sailor this weekend got the Mark Twain award and the subsequent roasting from all of his famous buddies that we love to watch on his [00:07:00] movies? 

Kyle Barron: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. That's gotta be a blast, man, just hanging out and cutting up with your friends. I wish we could do that, 

John Byrnes: but Kyle, what do you call this, or the writer's room, or Wednesdays when we watch the Real Housewives of new Jersey together.

Kyle Barron: that's true that's definitely cutting up . I guess we're already living the dream. But seriously, Mr. Sandler has put out a few great ones even this last couple years murder Mystery two is on the way, but Hustle Man, the Hustle was a masterpiece. I loved that movie I think Adam Sandler, he's one of the good ones.

Yeah, he's definitely, uh, one of the gems. He's one of the uncut ones. 

music: Oh. 

John Byrnes: So Kyle, do you hear about the San Diego Zoo? Uh, leopards. No, they gave birth to twins. These, uh, amur leopards and the zoo staff and patrons alike were through the roof. Everyone's excited 

Kyle Barron: about this. That's crazy. Honestly, whenever I hear twins, I have the lovely thought of my nieces, Kayleigh and Kinzie, or unfortunately the island 

John Byrnes: boys, the leopard twins, [00:08:00] they're just trying to make it.

Thanks for putting that back in my head, man. I feel like I finally got rid of that after the last few years. So yeah, thanks all. 

Kyle Barron: I didn't know you're such a singer to everyone out there wondering, uh, ma Povich did report live and confirm and was happy to tell us that Nick Cannon is not the father. Oh, well, John, obviously this past couple of weeks really?

We're going on three weeks now. I guess the whole month, that would make sense for March, the whole month of March. Yeah. Coming the March Madness. There's been total madness about the March munchies bracket that you created. Even today, everything is popping off like crazy. All morning my phone has been going off insanely.

Carl even got it on the mix and he's now discovered memes. I don't know if you caught that. Not memes gifs. I don't even call him the right thing. So he's been having some fun with those, but what a mess we've got ourselves into. I don't know 

John Byrnes: if the audience is ready for the results, but let's dive in.

We got number one, McDonald's [00:09:00] facing off events, number eight, Duncan I'll take the lead on this one. McDonald's. Ooh. Yeah, I agree. All right. I'm gonna 

Fred Anderson: be the I'm gonna go the other way. Dunking Donuts again, it drives the world, gets people ready for the day. No one's okay. Yes, there are some very odd people, man.

I repeat every odd people who think that don't. McDonald's coffee is somehow comparable to Dunking Donuts yes, but I'm going to go with Dunking here. But you guys win 

Kyle Barron: this one. The protest vote. 

John Byrnes: Listen, McDonald's has better breakfast. The coffee's not better. I'll give you that. But 

Kyle Barron: who cares?

Honestly, I only McDonald's breakfast, but I think their breakfast by far. Beats the options over at Dunking Donuts [00:10:00] and for those who are willing to test their souls, there's also options for lunch and dinner. And they're good . All right, 

John Byrnes: we got number four, taco Bell facing off against number five, chick-fil-A.

It's Kyle. Go ahead, 

Kyle Barron: man. Taco Bell, chick-fil-A. I'm gonna go Taco Bell for the win. They bring more money to the table. They have more options for a wider group of people. The options that Chick-fil-A are just pretty slim to none. When you look at a menu at a place like Taco Bell.

So Taco Bell takes us one hand in foot, I think.

Fred Anderson: This is a tough one. But I am going to repent after I say this. I am going to go with Taco Bell and it's not because I particularly enjoy Taco Bell more than Chick-fil-A myself. It's because I understand how much people love Taco Bell. It's an [00:11:00] appropriation of Mexican culture, . Oh, I do want to note that, but I would have to say the p the vote for the people will be with Taco Bell.

I'm gonna go with 

Kyle Barron: Taco 

John Byrnes: Bell. Long Live the Mexican pizza. . 

Kyle Barron: Alright. How was your cat? What a legend. 

John Byrnes: We're moving over to the the west side of the bracket. Here we got Starbucks number two, burger King, number seven. This is a tough one cause honestly it's What time of day is it? I feel like in 90% of scenarios, I'm honestly going with the b with Burger King.

Kyle Barron: Yeah. Yeah. This is tough. Burger King's got some good breakfast options. You got the NNA rolls, you got you got some things you can do in the morning for sure. The CRO sandwich. Yeah, the CRO sandwich is delicious. I call it croissant witch though. But , I just went with your pronunciation.

But yeah it's tasty. You can get the multi stacker one that's got, all meats on it, all the different species of animals. But I, again, I think this is another situation like like Fred was just in, I think that [00:12:00] Starbucks, although it's primarily a breakfast place, it's also a treat and it has that treat value and the breakfast thing going on.

It's true. So I think at the end of the day, Starbucks is gonna win. If you ask the American people what they want, burger King or Starbucks I think you there's a clear answer there. There's no denying it. I 

Fred Anderson: live three blocks from a Starbucks. I don't know how many blocks I live from a Burger King.

Kyle Barron: I gotta go with Starbucks on this one. Wow. Okay. 

John Byrnes: And the final game of the Elite Eight, the Red Pig Tales verse Steph Curry and all the rest of your favorite athletic heroes. Kyle, why don't you lead this one off? It's Subway number three, verse number six. 

Kyle Barron: Wendy's. Oh, you know where I'm at? Wendy's has taken that sub down.

There's no way Subway survives as a sandwich shop versus the options that you have. I mean, where else can you get a baked [00:13:00] potato with bacon, sour cream, and all the fixings. Yeah, you got the chili. Hold the finger. There's just a lot more going on at Wendy's that you can do, and I think that, Wendy's really out shines next to Subway, though Subway may be the popular choice.

I'm gonna go for the underdog, Wendy, because I don't care that there's 3 billion locations. I'm gonna go to a Wendy's middle of the day and get it when it's prime. Fred 

Fred Anderson: Subway, hands down. Okay. Like you can go to the subway anytime of night, get fresh bread, you can even ask them to make the bread fresh try going to Wendy's and ask them, can you make my burger fresh? Yeah. See what they say. they might put a little extra sauce in there. You might get that. Get the extra finger you never get a kind of trick in their subway.

You get to see them. Make the sandwich. Sandwich. 

John Byrnes: These are kind kind people. I'm going Subway too. Let's push Subway straight through Subway, straight through. For the record, we have followed the money. 

Kyle Barron: Uh, 

John Byrnes: All the way. So all the, we have no offsets on the board 

Kyle Barron: yet. Um, oh. I'm very upset [00:14:00] about somebody winning anything.

What? 

John Byrnes: So we have one through four in the final four here. McDonald's verse Taco Bell. I'm gonna have to go against the grain here. I'm voting for Taco Bell. I'm passionate about Taco Bell. Sam Baja. Blast to the 

Fred Anderson: moon that's a sweep. That's a sweep for Taco Bell. 

Kyle Barron: The Taco Bell. We have T 

John Byrnes: Bell moving into the final match.

Let's go. And across we have Starbucks for Subway. Unbelievable. . 

I did not predict this, but you know, this is the way the wind blew spread. Why don't you lead? 

Fred Anderson: Man I think this is another clear victory. I gotta go with Subway, man. 

Kyle Barron: Wow. Definitely not Fred. I think you're wasted $6 at work, buddy.

Fred Anderson: $6, you're bored. $6 foot long, so $7, whatever they are now. But you 

Kyle Barron: guys, 8 99 now 8 99 sells for half a sub. 8 99. That's. 

John Byrnes: 20 bucks at Subway every time I go, 

Kyle Barron: let's go 

Fred Anderson: 8 99 for a foot long. That's about what, 70 something cent [00:15:00] per inch? That's not a bad, come on, that's not a bad deal. So come on.

Listen, listen here, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go with Subway on this one. Listen, I love Starbucks. It's a great place to get a coffee and walk around with your cup and make other people feel like you know you're better than them. But nothing feels better as a man in America than walking down the street with a foot log.

Now that's my answer. I'm sticking to him and I just wanna say for the record, they got cookies. 

Kyle Barron: I know. Thank you. They got cookies. Screw those cookies. Everything Tarbucks you could ever need. 

John Byrnes: Sorry to do this to you, Kyle, but we're pushing Subway all the way through to the final day. 

Kyle Barron: No way. There's no way.

I wanna recount, submit your protests or whatever you, there's no way. Yeah, this is my protest. Starbucks, if you give it to the people, somebody goes to Subway maybe once a week. Maybe once a week. The average person goes to Starbucks three to five times a week. And [00:16:00] sometimes, yeah, that's so true. One to three times a day.

So I think the, sometimes the clear answer here is Starbucks and Parlay this or whatever, but you guys got two guys outta your mind. 

Fred Anderson: Yeah. No, but people go there for different reasons, right? Like people don't go to Starbucks, to, for, to get food. They just go to Starbucks to take in an insane amount of caffeine to get them through their, to get them through their day.

They go to, to be satisfied. They go to they 

go to Subway. I go for a smile. That Subway choke on a roll up yoga artist. They go to Subway, . Hey, that plastic is delicious, 

man. All right. I'm not the one who made the plastic so tasty. Okay, take that up with the plastic manufacturers. We got number four, taco Bell first.

Number three, 

Kyle Barron: subway in the final match. 

John Byrnes: Kyle, I think we can all guess where your boats going here. But 

Kyle Barron: yeah. Screw subway, , taco Bell's. Got it man. Screw that place. Fred. Why do you want a sub when you can have the original sub? The burrito? Did you know that? ? 

Fred Anderson: Did you know that [00:17:00] you can make a taco? Ish sub at Subway, like with all the different options that you could create. 

Kyle Barron: I ain't giving interrupt you, Fred.

I'm gonna say here as much as Taco Bell, it's a disappointment to the culture. I think Subway can't even compete with the culture. So I think I still gotta give it to Taco. I'm giving it the Subway, a Taco 

John Byrnes: Bell here too, guys. Cause I'm sorry, Fred. I'm a Taco Bell fied, 

Kyle Barron: Baja 

John Byrnes: Blast. I've been trying to lay off on it recently cuz I was eating a little too much.

But Baha, that Baha 

Fred Anderson: blast. Baja Blasters of music. 

John Byrnes: The Baja Blast alone could have been up here, and I'm giving it the winner. So Wow, what an amazing time that was. Happy March Madness to everybody. Go get some March munchies . 

Kyle Barron: It's, inspired by March mad. No, I'm just kidding. I'm kidding.

I'm kidding. No, man, you got a munch on something. You gotta munch on something. And we know what Fred's be much on a footlong over there, . Um, but yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm excited. I'm excited, uh, how this went. It's a good time. 

John Byrnes: Well, that was great. Great [00:18:00] segment, guys. Thanks for humoring me there. You know how much I love building these 

Kyle Barron: brackets for our first guest, I'd like to welcome from 12 hour sound machines, Brandon Reed

Brandon Reed: now, but how you doing buddy? Good, man. I'm good today. How are you? 

Kyle Barron: Good, good. I love what you're doing with 12 hours sound machines, but as we delve into this, and for those who don't know, who haven't read the backstory, , could you just introduce yourself briefly and we'll dive into how this all came to 

Brandon Reed: be?

Yeah, man. Sounds good. This story is a bizarre one. It starts the way most stories do of products that work. I had a problem, so I sought to solve it, and other people had the same problem and used my solution. So I was, we had a baby, I guess four years ago [00:19:00] or so now, first child, a little boy, and he wasn't sleeping, and so I was like, all right, let's try it.

We were using like an air filter at the time with some, just some noise behind it, just so we didn't wake him up like making noise around the house. But we were like, I was like, all right, we need something more consistent. Let's have something play through the night. I just couldn't find anything. I couldn't find anything that was long enough for a baby to sleep.

Baby can sleep 10, 11, 12 hours and everything that was long enough was really just like playlists of individual sounds that looped and it faded like in and out and was like, whatever, I'll just make my own. So I just made my own and posted it and dude, I tell you like I. If there would've been like a private setting, I would've toggled it on just cuz I was like, this is just for like, I don't need, I don't need, no one else is gonna find this.

I don't need anybody else to find, this is literally just for me. I just put it on there and like, pretty quickly it gained traction. Um, very quickly. I, I have theories as to why it happened so quickly, but like it, anyways, it was, it's just pure utility value. People found, had the need. Clearly they were typing in exactly what I was typing in.

[00:20:00] For whatever reason, somebody hadn't solved that problem yet, especially as a podcast. I put it as a podcast. Truly, dude, because the, like, music files have upload limits and podcasts don't. Yeah. So I was like, cool, let's just do it this way and with like, anchor the solution, it's free. And so I was like, all right, whatever.

So I just went for it that way people started finding it pretty quickly and it grew from there. That's kind of how it all started. Awesome. 

Kyle Barron: Now did. Create cover art for it at that point. 

Brandon Reed: Yeah. What's funny, this whole thing, there's all sorts of like serendipitous, just things that happened, but one of 'em was I literally expected nobody to find it.

I have an entrepreneurial spirit, I have lots of side projects that are always going, and of course the one thing that works, like I seriously did it in like six minutes . I was like, oh my gosh. But so like the thumbnail is, was just garbage. Like I seriously in Photoshop, like five minutes, one tired night before I was putting my kid down, I just called it the most straightforward thing you could possibly call it.

I said 12 hour sound machines, no loops or fades, because that's what was helpful for me was that there were no loops or fades. Yeah. So the thumbnail was just awful. [00:21:00] So as this thing has grown, which it's just grown significantly, we can talk about numbers and stuff in a second, but the momentum has been amazing.

And as that's happened, I've really struggled from the business standpoint of like, all right, when do I. Going back and changing a design asset's. A great example of like, this thing is super crabby. I want it done the right way, but something worked right? So like you right? You gotta change only certain dials and not too many dials at once.

And so something about that stupid thumbnail worked and people see that thumbnail. It's familiar. So I did end up changing my logo, but very carefully. I kept the background logo exactly the same. I kept the vibe of it the same. It had a very prominent border around it. I kept that border. Things like that.

Yeah, that is an interesting question because as the business has grown and the audience has grown, I've had to really be careful with like what dials I turn. 

Kyle Barron: Yeah, that's smart. Going forward. I have a recording background and I know quite a bit. I never once in my life thought, how do I create brown [00:22:00] noise?

I understand the frequencies, I understand the differences. Would you mind talking about, real briefly, just the difference between brown, pink and white noise? Then I want to dive into that a little bit more. 

Brandon Reed: For sure. Those are the three main, there's all sorts of ones. There's red and green and violet, and that can sound like super annoying, like seriously.

But there are key differences and if you listen, yeah. You do not need to have a trained ear to be like, whoa, that's really different. It makes me feel different. It puts me on edge. Yeah. Or makes me feel calm, or it zones me out. I know it sounds obnoxious, but it. Put headphones in and listen to each one.

It makes you feel differently and it sounds very different. Scientific. Yeah, totally. Absolutely. It is. I mean, it's not like pseudoscience either. It's a real thing, right? So the brown, pink and white are the main ones, and each one kind of has different, everybody knows the white noise. It's the tv, static, high frequency, it's, and then when you talk about brown noise, you cut those highs, you like limit the highs, the staticy, the more harsh, and then you bring in and boom.

Like the base and the lows is. Fuller had just a lot more low end. [00:23:00] And then pink is literally a combo of the two. And when you talk about a wide noise, whatever, just a static sh people can go a little higher, they can go a little lower. And it is pretty subjective. Like when does that tip into, cuz like violet noise is very high.

It, it's very helpful for tinnitus, right? It can remove ringing in your ears and that's super high, even higher than a TV static. When does it become violent noise versus white noise? That really doesn't matter. It's really just a frequency spectrum and you can call it what you want along the spectrum, but along the spectrum it's helpful for different people for different reasons.

And typically it's nice to have a baseline of brown is deep, pink is in the middle, and white is high. 

Kyle Barron: That's the most simple breakdown I've heard, so thank you for that. I tend to lean towards brown noise and I'm sure there's psychological reasons for that and scientific reasons for that because I find that calming and soothing, kinda like the sound of the echo, the deep echo of a volcano of those types of like really huge things have always resonated with me, waterfalls, things like that.

So that's where I lean [00:24:00] now when creating these sounds. Was there a particular sound that you created first? Was there something you were trying to replicate? What's the science behind creating these? Sounds like it's, to me, that's just really mind blowing to, to sit there at a machine. and either recreates or repurpose sounds in that way.

Brandon Reed: Volcano eruption. I just wrote it down. That's awesome. I love it. I'm totally gonna look at that and see if that's not something I can't replicate. I can't get to a volcano, but see if I can't replicate that and like I love that kind of big booming, epic type sounds. That's totally where I lean to. Like big rushing waterfall or Yeah, deep like booming thunder and the rolling in the distance is totally, that's absolutely the majority.

Most people like brown noise. That's by far the most popular out of those three because it's so soothing and yeah, deep and full and white people typically don't listen to white because it's comforting. People listen to white cuz it's like the gold standard when it comes to sound masking nothing. Get it.

Brown is [00:25:00] great too. Like I just told you, oh hey, I probably play brown noise all day because my kids are outside the room and it totally helps me zone them out. So in the office, brown noise is. Does the great job too, but white noise is, yeah, if you play white noise, it's like anything can be happening outside the room and it's just masks it completely.

So it's not typically for, and in fact, I just put on Spotify like a bunch of questions on my episodes, like how do you use this? And did like a poll for sleep or for babies or for travel. And brown is for sleep, vast majority. And white is mostly for babies because people use it for sound masking. So that's definitely the case.

And then the question of how these sounds are created. 

Kyle Barron: Yeah. How are you creating these sounds? Obviously you're using a DAO of some sort or recording software. What's the science behind capturing these frequencies? 

Brandon Reed: It's not a secret sauce or a recipe because it's digital sta it's digital noise. It's not easy, it's not straightforward or easy to make.

You definitely have to have the knowledge and the expertise to at least know how to approach it. If you have that, it's really not that big of a deal. It's digital noise [00:26:00] and then it's just messing with frequency. You just put, you layer these things on top of each other. That's like the most high level non-technical explanation I can give is digital noise.

But you just layer it and you can go across the spectrum and all the softwares have really intuitive tools of, let me bring more low end. Let me remove more of that high end and or let me increase the mids. If it's something like a pink and you can just start playing with it, violet, you just crank the high ends because that's what's helpful for ringing in the ears.

You just start with a digital noise and then you tweak from there. Based on, and honestly, dude, I just did what was pleasing to my. I just, it was like, what was, it was like that sounds like white noise, . And again, it doesn't matter what you call it. Like the science behind it isn't, this is white noise and this isn't, and how can you call this white noise and this not, it's not the name of the, it's not the color of the sound, it's just what scientific is, how your brain reacts to whatever frequency it is.

Right? And so it's really just what's pleasing to your ear. Again, one of those kind of serendipitous kind of happenstance things. Just like I did what was pleasing in my ear and that just happened to be what was pleasing for a lot of people. Like [00:27:00] the people, cuz there are other people that do this. I was one of the first to do as a podcast coincidentally, and a lot of people do it now, but this has been on YouTube forever, since YouTube was around.

This has been on YouTube and people all the time message me like, I've tried every brown noise and yours is my favorite. I'm like, great. That's awesome. I don't like, I don't like. I just literally turned those lows until it felt good to me. And I've listened to other brown noises too. I really like mine, but the science isn't in what color it is, but just in what's helpful for your ear.

Your other question was, what did I start with? Started with brown noise. Cause that's what I wanted for my baby. So I just did brown noise and that's all I started with. It gained a lot of momentum. Yeah, with just brown noise. And then as it gained as I was like, , other people are finding this. Then I added pink and white cause I knew those were popular and I grew the show to pretty good amount with just those three cuz that was just what people wanted.

Wow. And then from there, as I looked to monetize and like figure that pieced out of the business, I put like an additional 25 behind a paywall, like peaceful forest and yeah. Rushing Waterfall, the other ones [00:28:00] we've been talking about. And then I changed my monetization strategy and put ads on all of them, but then gave, then all of them are accessible.

And I have a subscription, um, that you can remove the ads in. My little intro I do for 2 99 a month or 30 bucks a year. And so that's how it works now. But I'm up to like 80 or so. Most of them are not noise colors. I think I have brown, white, pink violet, green I think is where I'm at. And then the rest are like, nature sounds pretty much, 

Kyle Barron: that's incredible.

I've listened to you like binary beats and like study focus, all those types of things. Partly outta curiosity, partly outta necessity. But I always found. That. And although there's science to those also, and it's a little different and there's reasons on how it gets your circadian rhythm to go a certain way, because I don't know why it is, why my brain has to work this way.

I pick apart those sounds. Mm-hmm. . So instead of hearing and letting my brain just, it'll eventually get there. But I'm like, why do they choose this? No. Why is this here? So I hear like all the different things. I don't know if you [00:29:00] ever listen Toka music. Uhhuh. . But people be like, yeah, sky Music's great. But like when I listen, Toka back when it was still cool, Uhhuh , I'd be like, oh man, there's 13 inch words going on at the same time.

Like I hear all of them. Yeah. That's what I would do with Bino beats. But when I listen to The Brown, for example, it actually just calms everything. Yeah. As opposed to me hearing all these other different things going on. So yeah, I think that's why I connect with that more than other things. And then, then of course, nature.

Tend to have that sound 

Brandon Reed: already within it. Yeah. And if you're listening to nature sounds that are super layered, you're gonna have that same issue. Like you're gonna, if there's birds and an owl and a cricket, yeah. You're gonna be like, wow, okay. The cricket's constant. And then that owl was there last 30 seconds ago.

Is that the same owl? Like that would, that would be, have the same issues I've messed around with by neural audio for sure. I know I have a lot of my listeners that want that. I create, had a bunch of custom sounds created, uh, copyrighted for me that was, uh, there were 12 hours and uh, some that were four for like mini mixes and put 'em all out there on a separate feed as like binaural beats for your brain is what I called it.

But it got pulled from Spotify because there was [00:30:00] light music behind it. And they're like, you can't do music on podcasts. Which is crazy cuz that's all over. There are people that have like this kind lo-fi music in their title, which is just weird. I don't know why I got, I think probably they're increasing scrutiny and I tried to do it recently.

Yeah. But anyways, that's, so I'm still messing around with that. I might just pull just the frequencies. . Like just the binaural audio. Yeah. And just post that. Cause some people like that, but we'll see. That is a whole nother, yeah, that's a whole nother thing. And I was gonna say also, when you say your brain goes in a hundred different directions on those layered sounds, but it like zones out with brown noise.

That's why it's been hugely popular with the ADHD and anxiety people that suffer from like an any anxiety conditions. No, because the same thing happens. Like I've seen people post online or just email me separately and say, it just makes my brain go to zero. Like just zones me out and I know it's my podcast, so I like it.

And of course I want listeners when people and just like my friends are like, what the heck's Brian noise? I'm like, no. Seriously though. Put headphones in and listen. It's not weird. It's not. Oh, you have to [00:31:00] close your eyes and be upside down and be face north. Like just do it. And it really is interesting, like it zones your brain out and maybe it's not brown for you, maybe it's pink for you, but there is a frequency that puts you to zero.

It's a really neat feeling and it really helps you sleep. Well, I'm here to 

Kyle Barron: validate that. So sweet . Thanks Kyle. It's pretty incredible. Please. So, the way I've been doing this thing where I don't keep my phone near me when I go to sleep for I'm, I think I'm like five days in Nice. Which I was like, how am I gonna do this?

Cause I'm listening to this podcast, right? So what I've been doing is I have a home pod, so I just put the sound in the home pod and then I throw the, I throw my phone in, my wife's thrown in the closet, and yeah, you gotta play with the volume to what suits you. But I had it, honestly, pretty well, danged, cranking, sound like I was at the bottom of a waterfall, quite literally.

Brandon Reed: Yeah, you turn it off, it off in the morning and it's almost like a, you're getting your sea legs back. It's whoa, whoa, whoa. You have to like recalibrate cuz it was so loud. Yeah, 

Kyle Barron: yeah, yeah. Like the space in your cleared, but it wasn't a, it wasn't a bad thing. Yeah. You know, but I said, you know, obviously people gotta find that [00:32:00] happy medium for them.

But I found that really nice because then I still wasn't distracted by my phone. And then I don't have, I don't have this stuff right next to my head. It's. In an environment. Now I've created this environment. Now if you're in an airport or somewhere you're trying to get some sleep focus, obviously that won't work.

But I've just found that in, in a home space that's been perfect for me. And like you said, you got it playing in your, to clear your room. That's right. And make it That's right. 

Brandon Reed: Available for you. That's right. That's a, that's a good, when you said focus, that's a good reminder too that it helps a lot of people sleep.

Cuz it does that has that effect of zeroing out your brain. But, and if you're, if you have a goal of zeroing out your brain to get tired, that can really be helpful. But dude, I use it all day, like I said, all day long in my office cuz I like to zero up my brain and focus on whatever I'm trying to focus on instead of on the 10 other things my brain's going on.

And it's not magic, it's not, whoa. I am perfectly focused on, it's not magic, but it's definitely helpful. It just, it's helpful when I, it's usually in the, in-betweens for me, like when I'm in between topics and I'm thinking it just, yeah. Just helps me stay focused. So it's the same thing. It kind of zeros out your brain, whatever [00:33:00] frequencies you find that to happen for you.

And then if you're, you have a goal of focus, that can really helpful. If you have a goal of sleep, it can help you achieve that too. It's pretty. Multidimensional. 

Kyle Barron: Well, I'm a little disappointed. It's not magic. I, I thought your title was, uh, CEO and Wizard. . That's probably Wizard. 

Brandon Reed: Oh, that's, that's the missing piece, dude.

That's, I gotta add it. Yeah. . 

Kyle Barron: Oh, man. Yeah. I know you're talking a little bit about the feedback and what you've been hearing from people, but as people have reached out to you, friends, strangers alike, what has been some of your favorite pieces of feedback you've gotten? This 

Brandon Reed: is a good question, Kyle. This is really interesting because I created it for myself.

Then other people started finding it. I was like, oh, I'm glad this is helpful for other people. And then it kept growing and I just figured, yeah, I don't know. I just didn't connect the dots between, this is helpful for people to, this is actually, , I don't know, impactful for their lives. I, it just had the hardest time I guess, believing that, cuz like I said, it's not magic.

Like it's not something, and I'm not trying to sell it as that. I'm not trying to tell anybody like, this is the [00:34:00] solve solution to all your problems. It's just, it's nice, it's, it's pleasing and like it helps me sleep and focus. But people will reach out and say, just yesterday I had someone who said, of course they were being a bit hyperbolic, but like, this has saved our marriage.

We can now both sleep in the same room, . And that was just funny, but a lot of people reach out with PTSD and. I've struggled to sleep. Wow. For 15 years, and I've tried everything. I've tried earplug, I've tried this, I've tried other brown noises or white noises or whatever, and I can like, I can finally sleep.

When people find the perfect episode, they'll reach out and they say, I've tried everything. And when I found that episode, I just started crying. I'm like, what? That's amazing. I hear often people have just, this has changed things for me, and maybe they're reaching out in the first five days that they found it and it feels like ch and then it evens out.

And maybe it's just more of just a helpful tool or maybe it really does change their lives forever. Regardless. It's been more impactful for people than I expected, and I guess I've just always used it. I guess if I didn't know about this stuff and found it, It would've [00:35:00] changed my life. Like it would've really, like if I would be like, dude, I couldn't focus during the day and now I can, that would be extremely impactful in my, if that was true, if I couldn't focus before and now this is, this has even increased it by five or 10%, that would change my life.

Yeah, man, I feel like compelled to reach out and say thank you. So yeah, a lot of people do and it's awesome. I try to, the way I frame this up and always have is just, I'm just a dude. I'm a dad who was tired and created this thing, and I want it to stay that way. I want that to be the vibe. I want it to be a community and family vibe of just, yeah, just reach out.

I will, people reach out all the time and I always help them directly with the issue and say, let's just get this taken care of and I don't have unlimited time and so I've, you gotta be careful with who you reach out to and make sure you respond to the right things. But I. Man, I really do try to keep it really personal and I try to stay really engaged with my audience and they really respond.

My audience is awesome. They're super passionate and really personable and it's cool. No, 

Kyle Barron: that's really cool. Like I said, I came across it just by happen chance, and so I'm glad I did and it's working for people. We can jump into to numbers [00:36:00] here for a minute, but it's madness. Yeah. 77 million downloads.

Yeah. That's 

Brandon Reed: insane Madness. Yeah. Yep. It's, that's insane. It's madness. The it, like I said, it started pretty quickly. There were like, Within a week or two, Kyle, it was like a couple hundred people a day and I was like, what the heck? What is, who is? I was like was, I just didn't expect anybody to find this, let alone like a hundred or 200 people a day.

And then it started growing. I started adding, I added pink and white and we got like a thousand or two a day. It just kept growing on my side. I have a year over year. Chart on my partner's page for here's the growth year over year. And it's just is bonkers. Like it's just every year more and more people find it and yeah, now we are up to, it's around 300,000 a day and just past 77 million.

So it just keeps growing. At the beginning it was very organic. From there, it's taken a ton of work, of course, like as any business does to grow and to not only to grow and scale but [00:37:00] to like this thing. It's growing enough that I really have to build some roots to this thing and make sure it doesn't collapse under its own weight.

There's just every decision I make matters a lot more cause it packs a lot more people and I have to be. Yeah. And so I've really had to work hard as, it's grown a lot, but at the beginning it was, man, it was super organic. Really neat. No, that's 

Kyle Barron: incredible. And yeah, 300,000 a day. That's insane. Yeah. Nuts.

And like you said, you got the chart guys, you can check it out. We'll have it posted in the notes. . But yeah, the chart, just the amounts of that snowball rolling is just incredible. Even more so honestly, from last year when you started till now is huge. Yep, yep. It's a massive growth. So congratulations for finding something that was missing for one.

Thanks. But doing it well, like I said, the audio quality is incredible and for any audio files out there, maybe it doesn't meet the criteria per se, of Lossless audio, 

Brandon Reed: but just No, and it not even close. Thank you so [00:38:00] much for saying that, Kyle. That's, I worked really hard at creating the highest quality audio, and as I listen, as objectively as I guess I can, having one myself, when I listen to the others two, I'm like, man, this.

I feel like mine is Yeah. So much better. It doesn't have that warbly, like it really is as high quality as I can find out there, but I'm also limited on Spotify's compression algorithm and stuff. So it's not, it's definitely not like 500. It's, it's, it's, I get limited, but I work really hard to make sure even within that limit it sounds good.

Cause there are tweaks you can even do to make sure that as it's compressed you don't get some of that like jarbo wobbly stuff. Yeah. And I've worked really hard and I hired an audio engineer to look through every sound and make sure that was the case. 

Kyle Barron: I never actually searched for a podcast and I was always using YouTube or something, which then a lot of those are subject to ads popping up in the middle of your sleep.

Mm-hmm. And oftentimes it's when you're in a lighter sleep and you hear it cut and then start over. Totally. Man. Even with sleep machines that you're actually purchasing and putting next to your, your head. Yep. Those things loop and it's noticeable. Yeah. 

Brandon Reed: Unacceptable. So this is the first time, even if it's a half a second, if it's a blip, I [00:39:00] will wake up in the middle of the night and be like, woo

Because it's really even 

Kyle Barron: off. Totally. Even if there's not technically silence the cutting just. It ruins it man. 

Brandon Reed: It ruins it for sure. I just, last week started, I put brown, pink and white on YouTube. I'm starting to mess with, cuz YouTube just announced they're doing podcasts, so I'm starting to play in that space.

I also created livestream for pink, brown and white just starting there. I'll go from there, but, and so there's a livestream 24 7 of all those noises, but it's a 12 hour noise. Restarts every 12 hours, but it's, they do, they did a great job. It's a seamless overlay and so yeah, it's just a little 24 7, never stopping.

the noise. 

Kyle Barron: Anything you can talk about any behind the scenes, maybe thoughts or plans of what you're looking to do in the future, because we know you got 'em. I don't know if you can share 'em, but we know you, you're looking to the next thing. 

Brandon Reed: What should I share? Yeah, I definitely do. I'm very interested.

Obviously these things are helpful and obviously these things in mass are resonating. What do I do with [00:40:00] that? How do I take that and leverage it? How do I grow just from a business standpoint? How do I get things wider than a podcast? Um, Because no business should be built on the back of a single. I'm subject right now to the platforms.

If the platforms decide right to screw me in the algorithm, that's it. So I just wanna be diversified. So as I think about that, I guess what, yeah, what I'm trying to do is look at how I can grow into these areas. There's my audience, I guess is the question I'm asking. And my audience of course, is they're on mobile devices.

They're traveling. They forgot their sound machine, they needed the baby to sleep at their grand, at their parents' house, like whatever. But my audience is also in a hotel room and they don't even know podcasts are a thing. Can I partner with brands? My audience is your audience. So how can I integrate myself into your product offerings?

Because listen, this stuff is, people freaking love this stuff and it's very helpful. Don't you also want to help your customers? And I have this back catalog, this [00:41:00] grown thing. That is that lots of people have resonated with and can I integrate with you to then you can service your customers win-win. So that's how I'm thinking about it.

Where's my audience and how can I then use what now has some real momentum behind it to help those other companies also reach their customers who are my same target segment. So 

Kyle Barron: many different things when you talk about partnerships, um, sometimes maybe some that wouldn't be on the forefront of people's minds.

So many different people that you could collaborate with. Excited to see where you go with that, cuz that obviously could be huge. And again, it exposes people to a solution. That maybe they're not going to Apple Podcasts and searching for 

Brandon Reed: That's right for you. YouTube. That's a great point, Kyle. That's what's so in, that's what's so intriguing to me is like it's gotten all this traffic and not only do only a fraction of the population, it's becoming more and more, but fraction of the population.

No podcast exists. But then second of all, who's searching for Brown Noise on a podcast? Like, no, nobody. That's part of why it's [00:42:00] so popular on Spotify is people just go to Spotify. Cause that's where they get their noises, their sound, like their audio. Yeah. It just, it's just Spotify. So they go to Spotify and they just type in, oh my gosh, I gotta get my baby to sleep.

White Noise or sound machine. But they honestly, dude, I think a lot of people don't even know I'm a podcast like my stronger listeners do who listen every day. But people who just find me once because they have a noisy hotel neighbor, they just went to Spotify, typed in white noise and saw 12 hours.

They're like, yep. And they just clicked it and they don't even, they don't care what I am, they don't care if I'm a song or an album or a whatever video. I, yeah, people. . That's what's so interesting to me, is like people don't even, I'm dealing with a fraction of the population, even knows podcasts exist.

Then a fraction within that who even think to search on a podcast platform for what I'm offering. So how can I grow outside of that? Cuz when people find this, not only is it helpful for them when they use it, but I tell you man, it's like a, it's a habitual, like you said yourself, you listen to it every night.

This is like a cornerstone in people's lives. And I, this is a funny story. Once I changed, early on [00:43:00] I had my white noise and I was like, that sounds too high. I don't really love that frequency. I lowered it just, dude, like if you were to see maybe 3%, I lowered some highs. And somebody found my number online through another side project like website that I had reached out to me, texted me and said, Hey bro, are you by any chance Brandon, like the sound machines guy?

I was like, what is happening? He was like, you changed your white noise and my babies won't sleep. My wife is desperate. She's told me, oh, when to find you and to get it back to normal. I was like, this was early on. I was like, because you found me. Yeah, dude, I'm, I'll change it back. So I just changed it because that's crazy.

People are just, when they find their noise, man, it's very important and it's a habit and it's something they, they need. And so that's also a really helpful for me. But as I think about stickiness of my customer or my listener, I like to think of it as a customer. But yeah, my listener and when they find me, they stick around.

So that's. . 

Kyle Barron: That's crazy. I would love to see maybe like a therapist or doctor's offices have that loop. I'm sure you [00:44:00] would too, but could you imagine like across the world, people using that sound just regularly in all their offices to keep people 

Brandon Reed: Legg. I would love that too. Kyle. Yeah. , you know. Yeah. I have several chiropractors that reached out.

I've had a acupuncture that's reached out and said, I just, one person sent me a picture of their, um, waiting room with a framed picture. She slides in and out that says Sound of the Day, and she just plays different ones and slides in is today is Peaceful Forest and she's, I have acupuncture office and people are anxious about that and it's just keeps people at ease.

So yeah, it's a thing. 

Kyle Barron: That's the crazy thing about the internet is how many people you come across or something that you create can touch just because it connected with a few people that shared with a few people. Mm-hmm. . And the next thing you know, you have 300,000 listeners a day. absolutely insane.

Some of my best friends I've met on the internet, which is just bizarre to me. Yeah, because 10, 15 years ago the internet was a weird place. It's still a weird place. It's still a weird place, but yeah, it 

Brandon Reed: wouldn't be, it's probably weirder to me when anybody talks to me about this, they're like, wow, that's crazy.

I'm like, yeah, the Internet's [00:45:00] crazy. That's really the story here is like the, it's obviously just all scale and word of mouth and utility value that somebody found and they're like, oh my gosh, I can't sleep to anything else. You should try this too. And the only reason they found it is cuz they saw the link and so yeah, it's, the Internet's crazy.

Kyle Barron: How do you envision sound therapy changing over the years, industrial industrially? I know obviously you're providing a solution. Do you think them looking to what's being created by people like you change what they're doing because they're not necessarily looking at. Something That sounds good. They're looking more at scientific aspect of it.

Who's 

Brandon Reed: who in this situation you're saying, Hmm, people 

Kyle Barron: that, that are involved in sound therapy. Is there any way the machine of sound therapy being influenced by individuals like yourself? I know that's a big 

Brandon Reed: question. I think that the industry of sleep is huge. I think that it's growing. It's like legit booming.

Wellness and mindfulness is big and that's also really turning into sleep. Dude, there's [00:46:00] entire hotel chains that are catering to what's called sleep tourism. And these huge brands are building, um, portions of their hotel that are sleep rooms that are like, we will help you sleep here. Everything is darker.

Everything's tailored to getting you to sleep better, cuz the world's getting busier. People's brains are getting more anxious and distracted. We all know that. And. Sleep as a result. Sleep is just harder. It's just harder for people. I, I, the stats are all over the place, of course, cause the internet is crazy.

But if you can, if you deduce down all the stats, it looks like something like 30 to 40% of adults struggle with some level of insomnia cannot sleep at night. And that's, so there's a huge opportunity there for companies, other people who have been doing and playing in this space for a while to pay attention to that.

And the market of sleep is a big deal for sure. I don't know about them seeing what US creators are doing. I think what they could do is as we start creating more and more things, like we have a. Let's talk about podcasts and we just we're [00:47:00] like, okay, we're placing more episodes, we're getting creative where those things are.

We're getting these like fine-tuned, honed in pieces of feedback from our listeners of do this and then this and this, and suppose they could look at that. And if they've just been playing in the spaces, we'll just put some white noise out there. Say, man, it looks like a lot of these creators are, the rain sounds are everywhere.

We should probably pay attention to rain. I think probably the way we can help influence where this space is headed is we have a line, a direct line in, because we're all like small time creators relatively to something like, uh, Johnson and Johnson or something. We have a direct line into our audience and they're telling us exactly what they want to hear and we're tweaking our businesses accordingly, our sounds, our offerings accordingly products.

Sure. And I suppose they could pay attention to that and say, man, we don't have people emailing us directly. Say, please make this sound. So that could be helpful. 

Kyle Barron: Any advice you would give to anyone? Who thinks they have a good idea and what they could do. Maybe to harness that and potentially turn that into something like a business.

Not necessarily a podcast, [00:48:00] but yeah. 

Brandon Reed: Okay. So broader than, yeah, broader than just podcast. Yeah. I think as it relates to sparking an idea and bringing that to market, this is a really, Obnoxious term that I'll explain it, but what it's called is like product market fit. Is the idea that like I don't mean to, yeah, just like spout off terms, but like that that just means that you just find the right product for the right people.

And that is what I always tell people is I just talk about entrepreneurship or mentor anybody. What I'll say is one common mistake is that people make a really cool widget, a really cool thing, a really cool service that they believe in that's actually pretty neat, that solves a real problem and is really well made.

They were high quality and they did it the right way and they're like, here you go, world. It sells five copies to their mom and their aunt and their uncle. And there's untold stories about that. Because the product market fit was wrong. Like they were talking to the wrong people or they just were doing something wrong.

And you have to figure out before [00:49:00] you build. People are just so discouraged cuz they build the coolest thing and nobody buys it. And that doesn't mean that nobody wants it. What you need to make sure you do is, is be realistic about. And a lot of people will hush a lot of the, it doesn't look like people are ready for this or it looks like I'm talking to the wrong market there.

If you build it, they will come. If you build it, they will come and they just press for it. Cause they're like, this is the coolest thing. And people will see it once it's out there. And that's just not always the case. You have to be realistic with, does the coolness of it, does the usefulness of it translate into the purchase of it?

If you're thinking about building a business, is it monetizable? Will people actually spend their money on it or their time or something That's of value and that's really important. Yeah. Not everybody always lands there or answers that question honestly before they start. What their. , 

Kyle Barron: great advice. Even with podcasts and one episode in two episodes, in three episodes, and they quit.

Brandon Reed: I think 70% don't make it past three, I think. Yeah, 

Kyle Barron: yeah, yeah. 70% don't make it past three, but in order to do that, you gotta keep. You gotta keep doing it, you gotta keep putting it in front of people. That's right. Or anywhere else you wanna direct people. 

Brandon Reed: One helpful thing I [00:50:00] have on my website is what's called just like an episode index where the podcast feed is a crappy way to find things like it.

If it's not, we are on, I'm on a platform that like really doesn't suit me in a podcast. Cuz if you find, if you're like, man I love rain sounds, there's no way to filter, there's no filtering or sorting in a podcast for you. You can just do like latest and oldest or oldest to the newest and the episode index you're, I allow like tags, like you can basically say use and or type and use.

So I like rain noise type and I like use for sleep. And so then it will part repair those down and you can find the sounds that will be most helpful for you. So if you think, if you found a couple of the noises that are great and wanna find more that are like that, go to the episode index on my website and you can see that.

Awesome. 

Kyle Barron: Well thank you so much for your time, Brandon. We appreciate you. Everybody. Check out the podcast, look forward to plug in with you down the line when you got something that you're adding to the space. 

Brandon Reed: Awesome. Thanks Kyle, appreciate it. 

Kyle Barron: And here is a cut from her upcoming project. Artifacts, the song outside.

From Emma Miller.[00:51:00] 

music: Can't breathe.[00:52:00] [00:53:00] [00:54:00] 

Kyle Barron: Well, I'd like to welcome my friend Emma Miller. How are you feeling today? So glad to have you here. I 

Emma Miller: am. Good. I am feeling surprisingly fresh for the time, and yeah. Thank you so much for having me, Kyle. 

Kyle Barron: Now that's the first time I've heard this song. This song is insane. So I, want to go into a little bit of that in a few moments here but if you could just take a second to introduce yourself. Of course. We all know your name's Emma Miller, but where do you hail from and and what are you doing in the space?

Emma Miller: who am I and why am I here? . My name is Emma Miller. As you know, I come from Scotland. I currently reside in Edinburgh, which is the capital city of Scotland as it happens to be. And I'm a musician. I'm a singer songwriter. And yeah, I've wormed my way [00:55:00] into Web three over the last year and. Been releasing music NFTs and have a whole history of doing music for years and years before that as well.

So that's the very much the Reader's Digest version of who I am. 

Kyle Barron: So obviously we met on Twitter spaces, which is this thing that a very small population knows about and exist in. Seems huge to us, but I'm amazed that so many people don't know that that is a thing that you can do.

I was gonna say on Twitter, I was like, the whole world's on, or our whole world is on spaces, but we will put up 

and then when you tell people it's like, clubhouse and they're like, what's that ? 

Emma Miller: Yeah, exactly. I know 

Kyle Barron: there's, which, I'm one of those people cause I never used Clubhouse, so, that's pretty funny to me.

But no so we, you host a space. Five days a week, early morning. It's not, it's really not that early in the morning, but for people who stay up late, it's early . And you host a good space in there. You have all different musicians in there independence, jumping into, doing the Web three thing or seasoned in web [00:56:00] three.

So that's where we met last week's musical guest Alice. Yes. And yeah, it, it's, you bring such a, how do I say it? You're such a refreshing breath of air. You're so tame and calm and bubbly and full of life. And I know it's weird just to get a whole line of compliments like that, but you've just put an absolute joy to get to know in just the short time that we've been talking.

Very excited to introduce you to those who are listening in the space or on the podcast. But yes, so this song. Man, it's insane. I've heard you sing a couple live and you're just as good live, which is a good thing. , that used to have 

Emma Miller: to be the case over the luscious Twitter audio . 

Kyle Barron: Yes. The luscious Twitter audio.

But yeah, I would love to dive into the song just a little bit. Yeah, one thing I particularly enjoyed, and again, this is off of one listen but I loved the way that the piano led the [00:57:00] song. Faded into the distance and then came back in as an accompaniment almost to everything else that was going on that built in the chorus.

Yeah. 

Emma Miller: Well, firstly, thank you so much. It's really cool. Like that song isn't out in the world yet, so you're one of the very few people to have heard the produced version. So it's, yeah, it's nice to know that it was enjoyed. But the, yes, the piano, I think. My instrument that I use to write with is piano is keyboard.

So I always think about that from a production point of view, just knowing that hopefully the songs I create are always gonna be playable live. But all the fading in and out into the distance is really down to my producer Lucas Mendes, who is a yeah, a, an amazing collaborator of mine that we've formed a relationship over years and years of working together.

So he seems to understand my brain splurges where I don't really have the jargon or the lingo, but he somehow pieces [00:58:00] together. My intention is okay, I, I technically know how to make this happen, and he presses the things and the thing happens. 

Kyle Barron: that's incredible. Yeah. There's something very enchanting.

There's usually is when I least songs that I connect with. , the piano's like a timeless sound. And it's, there's something enchanting and enticing about it, especially the way that you play. And I love the way that you piece your songs together, even, the strip down, just the original versions.

That I've been fortunate enough to hear, and I hope everybody else gets that opportunity as well. But could you dive in a little bit about how your songs form and what kind of situations do you put yourself in when you're creating ? 

Emma Miller: I dunno why I'm laughing. I'm thinking of myself like running in front of a car or something.

Like I'll get a song, . What situations do I put myself in? It's very standard, Kyle. It's at the piano is the situation. Oh, that makes sense. Yeah. , I'm yeah, so unoriginal in that way. And it's usually. It's a kind of combination of things. Usually [00:59:00] I am struck by some kind of emotion or feeling or urge to be musical and sit down.

And I've really noticed just being an indie solo artist with the day to myself and how to tructure that I've really noticed in the morning before my space actually is when, before my, I run my Twitter space, I try and sit down and spend a bit of time before, the hustle and bustle of the day gets going.

So originally it would be much more just whenever I was going through an emotion is when I'd have the urge to sit down and play. But now I try and yeah, I try and sit down and either play around with chords and that usually influences a melody idea. And I know a lot of people do the same, where you're just singing mumbo jumbo, you're singing bits.

Of sounds that sound like words and then they become a word and you're like, okay, maybe this is the context of the song. And I spend quite a long time returning to songs and rewriting and sitting with stuff and [01:00:00] some songs I've had for years that I come back to and I like change a word or I change a little structure.

So it's a painful process sometimes. . 

Kyle Barron: No, that's incredible. It, I've met a few people that write with that kind of man, like that vocal run kind of jargon. I've never done that myself. So it's such an interesting thing for me to take part of and watch people do, cuz I've always. Either not said anything or said what I was thinking, , what I was writing.

Emma Miller: You're probably interesting. Way more in tune with your emotions though. You're like this is what I'm thinking. I'm gonna say it. Whereas I'm like, I don't know where, what it is. And the mumbo jumbo comes and eventually I get to like the Kyle level where a sentence forms, so you're, you're already straight out the gate, like knowing what to 

Kyle Barron: say.

 It's just two different styles. What I find interesting about, doing those runs is you're able to experiment with the melody more. Mm-hmm. because you're just letting your body, [01:01:00] express things you haven't put to word yet.

When I'm listening to music, I'm a very visual person I guess I would lean towards cinematic. I see like scenes, whether it's, like movie esque or landscapes. And one thing that your music brings to mind, I see really wide inflight type shots of landscapes and mountains. And it's like very majestic.

And angelic, it's like a nice one sh one show that I like a lot is ghosts the setting where that show takes place the English version of the original version they have these really like huge Victorian houses and these rolling hills and all that.

And that's like where my mind goes. 

Emma Miller: If you can just send me the list of shows and the music supervisor names so that I can start personally harassing them to put my songs on all of these shows. Yes. Yeah. That's lovely. No I've had that kind of feedback before of that cinematic edge, which is a, I love that kind of music myself.

I love film [01:02:00] scores. I love delving into an incredible like nothing beats a movie sound like a really incredible movie soundtrack because you've got both, you've already pieced together the visual world and if there's an incredible soundtrack behind it, it just elevates the whole thing.

So that would be lovely. I think having a song out there with the perfect piece like a perfect piece in the film or a TV show it, I dunno if you watch those, like scan dramas like kind of crime thrillers, but I've had that kind of feedback before of maybe it could, maybe some of them could get away with having a little Emma Miller in the background.

I don't know. 

Kyle Barron: No, honestly, and I haven't we can go back and check, I haven't said this to anybody else, but your music, every song I've heard from you, which I believe is three or four at this point, all have. The same quality in, in, for the sake of a cinematic purpose. I think they all could be used as a main track or as a theme to to, a top notch movie or a top [01:03:00] production, no television production.

I love that cuz not everybody writes music like 

Emma Miller: that. Thank you. You're definitely knowing how to just make me feel amazing and I'm gonna take this recording and send it to all the music supervisors and be like, this is the pitch guys. Kyle says Yeah, no, that's awesome. Thank you so much.

Kyle Barron: Yeah, even and I'm terrible with, I used to be the guy that knew all the names of songs and all the artists and all that. I feel as I get older, I'm starting to lose that a little bit. Oh, I know 

Emma Miller: your song. No name of songs, like even all the artists. Oh okay. That I spend all my time in Twitter with.

I'm like, I love this song. I don't remember the lyrics or the name, but I know I love 

Kyle Barron: it. Yes. Like the downstairs one. I could see that at the, like an ending scene of a movie. I don't know if it's called Downstairs. I think it is. You called the name. I 

Emma Miller: don't remember. That's a, that's an easy one.

Oh, okay, good. The downstairs. It's called Downstairs. 

Kyle Barron: Yes. That is, again, they're all epic. They're all the same equal amount of Epic, but , since I was the first song I heard from you, I guess that one stuck the [01:04:00] best, but yes. Anyways, back to talking about the wonderful Emma Miller. What are your big plans for this year?

2023? Obviously you have this album coming out, this EP coming out here just a few days from the airing of this interview. How are you feeling about it? Oh my God. 

Emma Miller: Did you, can you hear the sweat bead just forming on my forehead as you 

said that?

Kyle Barron: I heard something dripping. 

I wasn't sure what that was. 

Emma Miller: Yeah, that was what that was.

, I'm feeling really good about it. I'm feeling very excited. I'm feeling all of the things as well. I'm feeling the overwhelm I'm feeling just the anticipation is building, basically it's a few days away and as I said, I've been in the web three culture for about a year.

And I've had these songs, these five songs for a few years, wondering where to put them or how they would take life. So yeah, they're coming out as part of my collection artifacts on the blockchain, [01:05:00] although, Outside, which is the song I've given you. Had a little spin on BBC radio last night, so I'm deciding to put them out to a few little places such as radio where it's still very of the moment.

Like you have to have been listening to that show or go out of your way to kinda seek it out and listen through the whole show to hear my song. So those are, yeah, it's gonna be coming first of all, exclusively to the blockchain, but I'm very excited. It's, I think, gonna take me hopefully to another level, not just in my career, but as an artist.

I think having. To get down to like the nuts and bolts of it. Being able to have financial independence from the likes of doing a larger music. N F T collection drop is what is gonna give me the freedom to focus on my art and develop as a songwriter and try out different things that I've been hoping to do.

And it gives you the potential to be ambitious. Like I think I've held back previously thinking of what my limits are whereas this kind of [01:06:00] community that I've been part of and where I've met you from you just feel this kind of limitless potential building which is also terrifying.

Like being faced with your own potential is scary. But yeah, having people back you up every day and just be like, you've got this, it's. Yeah, I think we're very lucky to be surrounded by each other and be in it together. 

Absolutely. And the support of peers in is amazing because that's not something you have a lot of in the the traditional streaming or internet based music world.

It's like you're in no man's land. , 

you're not just in no man's land, but you're also in that kind of structure. You're only seeing another person's highlight reels, so you're also isolated, creating alone.

Kyle Barron: Outside of the Web three technology, how has putting these songs together been different from anything you've done [01:07:00] in the past? 

Emma Miller: Yeah, that's a good question. I think when I was writing these songs emotionally, it was over a couple of years, maybe two to three years actually, where I'd been living in London for quite some time for a f for a few years again, and had really come to a fork in the road of questioning whether music was the right thing for me to be doing because it was taking a toll on my mental health.

Just the whole concept of having to have music pay the bills, and when you've gone to a capital city like London, where it's the kind of main place to be trying to make it as a musician there's that sense of failure if you don't come back with the goods or you don't come back having like made all your bills be paid by your art.

And I think I was just really fatigued and tired by that. So many of the songs I think were written. During that existential in limbo time. And [01:08:00] also then in the transition to coming home, I came back to Scotland at the very end of 2019 just heading into the luscious pandemic times in 2020.

And that was another chance for me to actually regroup back home in Scotland and do a lot of reflecting. And that was the point where I decided I wasn't gonna do music anymore. I'd returned home. I wanted to finish this body of work, these five songs that had grouped together cuz they just felt like a really cohesive narrative to what I'd been experiencing.

But I was pretty much working on that project with the view to it being my last foray into the music world. And I, not something I was even feeling sad about, I thought it's gonna be something I'm. I'm really proud of. I'm gonna put so much effort into it. It was the first time I had done like all of my own press shots, all of my own artwork because of the pandemic.

I'd been shooting all of my own music videos with my poor, like mother on driving the car at [01:09:00] five miles an hour while I'd hung a camera off the back windshield. All of those fun things, . So what I'm trying to get at is I had this absolute sense of like abandonment and freedom in a great way.

I wasn't like, I need validation for this. I hope this works out. I really didn't care. I just wanted to be really proud of what I was doing, and I just didn't overthink it. I also like for, and again, for another level of transparency, paid for pr, which I'd never done before. And that meant that I got a level of credibility with blog posts on Clash and Wonderland, and that resulted in like Spotify editorial playlists.

So it was one of my most successful releases, ironically, just as I was like, bye. And then, yeah, then we get to the entry into like web three and coming back to music again. It was maybe like a year and a half where I stepped back and just thought, I'm gonna, I'm gonna keep this as my passion.

I definitely fell [01:10:00] back in love with it as well when I decided to stop trying to make it pay my bills, funnily enough. 

Kyle Barron: We have the links posted in the podcast notes we haven't posted up top if you're in the live space. Anything that you want to leave us with, 

Emma Miller: so the presale begins on Monday, and then artifacts by Emma Miller is the collection name goes live for public on Wednesday. And then that's just gonna exist in the world forevermore on the blockchain. So if anybody revisits this podcast episode and wants to come and figure out what it was all about, then you can head to artifacts and you can actually play the five songs that are gonna be part of it.

It's not the best play experience over on marketplaces, but at least it introduces you. My, my N F T journey. So yeah, I think people are just very welcome to come and say hello, come and find me on my space. If it's anybody's up early enough, 7:00 AM e s t then yeah, I'm also hanging out in Twitter at those times as well.

Kyle Barron: Thank you again. Thank you for being [01:11:00] vulnerable with us. Thank you for sharing this song with us. Make sure you plug in, check out Emma Miller. She's doing big things. Can't wait to see where we're at this time next year, but I know it's gonna leaps and bounds from where we're at now.

And yeah, we'll be sure to share all the information on our le on our profiles as well as your Mint goes live. And just excited to be there and support you. 

Emma Miller: Amazing. Thank you so much for having me at the Not So Late show 

Kyle Barron: Big shout out to you, Brandon Reed and Emma Miller.

Pretty great guest. Pretty great music. What am I saying? Pretty for It was super great. Super great. Amazing. Fantastic. Definitely. And guys, I can't believe this. This is the end of episode nine. What the heck? Wow. It's a blast, man. It's been a blast. And Juan's here, Juan. He's sick now. Poor Juan.

Please keep him in your thoughts. He is not doing so well, so send him your thoughts. We got him. We got him in a [01:12:00] cage over there. Not a cage. That's a cr. A crate. A crate. Yeah. We got him in a box. We got him in the, it's a tiny house. We got him in a tiny house with the separate from the rest of the band.

They're in the own tiny house on stage here, but yeah. Not feeling great, but he's here. He's playing the tunes and cranking it as always. Big reminder, be sure to plug in with our guest. Be sure to follow the links that we have up in the up at the top of the space or in the podcast notes and also, If you haven't already, be sure to subscribe to the podcast.

Share this with your friends. We're doing some big things coming your way very soon. All kinds of new people for you to meet and really for us to meet together on a more personal level. So just excited for everything we have going on here and we don't want you to miss it, and we'd love for you to bring some more people around as well.

John, you got anything else for the crowd this evening? I 

John Byrnes: just want to wish [01:13:00] everybody a happy and healthy weekend and we'll see you all 

Kyle Barron: next week. That's all I got. Oh, yeah. You know where to find us every Thursday, 9:05 PM Eastern Standard Time. Live on Twitter spaces or on the podcast shortly after.

And we're just looking forward to seeing you guys next week. And until then, do this tonight. Would you go check out 12 hour sound machines? The links are there. You already know. See what Brandon has put together. It's absolutely incredible. And hit us back. Let us know. Did it help you sleep any better than you slept the night before?

1, 2, 

music: 3.

Kyle Barron: From [01:14:00] the upcoming project from Emma Miller, or here's a, we'll do it live. We'll do it.