{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":5.339,"endTime":8.309,"body":"Welcome to the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":5.339,"endTime":8.309,"body":"Listen perspective. I'm your"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":8.309,"endTime":12.449,"body":"host, Rebecca Hastings. I've"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":8.309,"endTime":12.449,"body":"spent over a decade working with"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":12.449,"endTime":15.929,"body":"executives in the tech sector,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":12.449,"endTime":15.929,"body":"and help successful companies"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":15.929,"endTime":20.069,"body":"build their leadership teams and"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":15.929,"endTime":20.069,"body":"scale. During my career, I've"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":20.069,"endTime":22.829,"body":"been lucky to have the privilege"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":20.069,"endTime":22.829,"body":"of learning from many"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":22.829,"endTime":26.489,"body":"exceptional leaders. In these"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":22.829,"endTime":26.489,"body":"conversations, you'll get"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":26.489,"endTime":29.849,"body":"perspectives from peers, be"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":26.489,"endTime":29.849,"body":"inspired, and learn what it"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":29.849,"endTime":33.209,"body":"takes to become one of the best."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":29.849,"endTime":33.209,"body":"This is your chance to listen to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":33.209,"endTime":36.509,"body":"experts talking about the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":33.209,"endTime":36.509,"body":"challenges, solutions, and the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":36.509,"endTime":39.479,"body":"vital insights they've gained in"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":36.509,"endTime":39.479,"body":"their careers to date."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":41.76,"endTime":43.92,"body":"That's what builds"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":41.76,"endTime":43.92,"body":"value in the organization."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":44.16,"endTime":47.13,"body":"Because that's what you can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":44.16,"endTime":47.13,"body":"scale and as an investor or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":47.13,"endTime":50.64,"body":"acquire, they're going to come"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":47.13,"endTime":50.64,"body":"in with their money, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":50.7,"endTime":54.0,"body":"assistance or team or whatever."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":50.7,"endTime":54.0,"body":"And they can make the fight they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":54.0,"endTime":55.11,"body":"can scale that up."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":57.45,"endTime":60.09,"body":"Today, we're"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":57.45,"endTime":60.09,"body":"joined by Matt Liesl, Matt"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":60.09,"endTime":63.39,"body":"little has worked in the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":60.09,"endTime":63.39,"body":"technology sector for over 20"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":63.39,"endTime":67.92,"body":"years. And he has worked with"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":63.39,"endTime":67.92,"body":"companies such as soon Fox which"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":67.92,"endTime":72.39,"body":"exit to Fortinet. And at the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":67.92,"endTime":72.39,"body":"moment, he works as an interim"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":72.39,"endTime":77.76,"body":"and fractional CPE to start with"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":72.39,"endTime":77.76,"body":"advisor, non Executive Director"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":77.79,"endTime":81.18,"body":"and chairperson. And he's been"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":77.79,"endTime":81.18,"body":"involved in companies such as"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":81.18,"endTime":85.14,"body":"malleus, clap CO, which was"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":81.18,"endTime":85.14,"body":"acquired by Reggie education,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":85.38,"endTime":89.94,"body":"and gamba digital, which was"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":85.38,"endTime":89.94,"body":"acquired by a xario. So Matt,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":90.0,"endTime":94.74,"body":"thanks so much for taking time"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":90.0,"endTime":94.74,"body":"to speak to us today. I am super"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":94.74,"endTime":98.79,"body":"excited to hear about your"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":94.74,"endTime":98.79,"body":"career and your insights into"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":98.79,"endTime":102.66,"body":"the world of technology and"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":98.79,"endTime":102.66,"body":"product. My first question for"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":102.66,"endTime":106.83,"body":"you is like what attracted you"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":102.66,"endTime":106.83,"body":"to the startup world because I"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":106.83,"endTime":109.65,"body":"know that you actually worked in"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":106.83,"endTime":109.65,"body":"quite corporate environments"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":109.65,"endTime":110.49,"body":"before that,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":110.61,"endTime":115.14,"body":"by Rebecca. So I, when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":110.61,"endTime":115.14,"body":"I when I left university, my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":115.14,"endTime":119.22,"body":"first few jobs were for large"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":115.14,"endTime":119.22,"body":"organizations. And I found they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":119.22,"endTime":121.98,"body":"were quite slow moving, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":119.22,"endTime":121.98,"body":"know, the decision making"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":121.98,"endTime":126.12,"body":"process took forever, I never"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":121.98,"endTime":126.12,"body":"quite understood why, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":126.12,"endTime":129.12,"body":"everyone agreed something was a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":126.12,"endTime":129.12,"body":"good idea. But it would take six"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":129.12,"endTime":133.71,"body":"months to make anything happen."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":129.12,"endTime":133.71,"body":"And I got to a point, I've been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":133.71,"endTime":140.31,"body":"through a couple of exits about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":133.71,"endTime":140.31,"body":"point. And I had really enjoyed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":140.88,"endTime":145.29,"body":"this building to an exit. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":140.88,"endTime":145.29,"body":"decided that rather than working"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":145.29,"endTime":148.71,"body":"for sort of medium sized"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":145.29,"endTime":148.71,"body":"company, and help each exit,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":148.71,"endTime":152.64,"body":"actually, what I wanted to do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":148.71,"endTime":152.64,"body":"was go join a proper startup,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":152.79,"endTime":157.17,"body":"you know, really early days"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":152.79,"endTime":157.17,"body":"startup. So I went to work for a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":157.17,"endTime":162.63,"body":"company, I was the sixth person"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":157.17,"endTime":162.63,"body":"in the office. And I was one of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":162.63,"endTime":166.62,"body":"the first experienced commercial"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":162.63,"endTime":166.62,"body":"experience people in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":166.62,"endTime":172.26,"body":"organization, which some people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":166.62,"endTime":172.26,"body":"call founding team. And I really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":172.26,"endTime":175.98,"body":"liked two things. One was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":172.26,"endTime":175.98,"body":"building something. 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In other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":187.95,"endTime":190.86,"body":"words, we have make a decision."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":187.95,"endTime":190.86,"body":"And we could all agree this a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":190.86,"endTime":194.4,"body":"great thing to do, there's data"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":190.86,"endTime":194.4,"body":"to back this up, let's make this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":194.4,"endTime":197.01,"body":"happen. And we could do it the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":194.4,"endTime":197.01,"body":"next day. And we could see the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":197.01,"endTime":200.52,"body":"results in a couple of weeks."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":197.01,"endTime":200.52,"body":"None of this kind of put it in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":200.52,"endTime":202.74,"body":"front of the committee, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":200.52,"endTime":202.74,"body":"committee meets every three"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":202.74,"endTime":206.55,"body":"months. And then 912 months"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":202.74,"endTime":206.55,"body":"later, you see a result, we fail"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":206.55,"endTime":210.54,"body":"to turn stuff around much, much"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":206.55,"endTime":210.54,"body":"quicker. And that's what I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":210.54,"endTime":213.93,"body":"really enjoyed. And at that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":210.54,"endTime":213.93,"body":"point, I think I got pre hooked"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":213.99,"endTime":219.54,"body":"on startup. Well, somebody it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":213.99,"endTime":219.54,"body":"may even have been you first six"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":219.54,"endTime":222.57,"body":"months into working in startup,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":219.54,"endTime":222.57,"body":"you told me I think you're never"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":222.57,"endTime":226.35,"body":"gonna go work for a big company"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":222.57,"endTime":226.35,"body":"again, are you? At the time? I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":226.35,"endTime":230.67,"body":"don't think I understood that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":226.35,"endTime":230.67,"body":"And now I do. There is just so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":230.67,"endTime":234.12,"body":"much opportunity for startups,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":230.67,"endTime":234.12,"body":"there are so many interesting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":234.12,"endTime":237.45,"body":"challenges that people are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":234.12,"endTime":237.45,"body":"tackling, and so many great"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":237.45,"endTime":241.68,"body":"entrepreneurs Albert's work"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":237.45,"endTime":241.68,"body":"with. So yeah, I love startup"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":241.68,"endTime":243.42,"body":"land. And and I wouldn't leave"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":241.68,"endTime":243.42,"body":"it"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":243.66,"endTime":245.52,"body":"there. It's"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":243.66,"endTime":245.52,"body":"really interesting, because a"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":245.52,"endTime":249.21,"body":"lot of the startups that I'm"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":245.52,"endTime":249.21,"body":"working with, they want people"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":249.24,"endTime":255.84,"body":"who come from startups, rather"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":249.24,"endTime":255.84,"body":"than large organizations. But"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":255.84,"endTime":258.75,"body":"you know, thinking back to that"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":255.84,"endTime":258.75,"body":"time, you know, you obviously"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":258.75,"endTime":261.81,"body":"were so you know, very hands on"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":258.75,"endTime":261.81,"body":"tactically when you needed to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":261.81,"endTime":265.59,"body":"be, but I think it's often"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":261.81,"endTime":265.59,"body":"overlooked, just like the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":265.59,"endTime":269.34,"body":"commercial experience that"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":265.59,"endTime":269.34,"body":"someone can bring if they have"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":269.34,"endTime":274.32,"body":"come from a large company right"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":269.34,"endTime":274.32,"body":"into that startup world. And I"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":274.32,"endTime":277.2,"body":"think that, you know, that"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":274.32,"endTime":277.2,"body":"mindset that you've just"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":277.2,"endTime":279.99,"body":"described, that you embodied"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":277.2,"endTime":279.99,"body":"when you were working, there is"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":279.99,"endTime":282.6,"body":"probably a lot more important"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":279.99,"endTime":282.6,"body":"than anything else."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":282.63,"endTime":285.69,"body":"So I agree, I don't, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":282.63,"endTime":285.69,"body":"think someone has to have the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":285.69,"endTime":289.38,"body":"right mindset. And that's some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":285.69,"endTime":289.38,"body":"people test that by expecting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":289.38,"endTime":292.86,"body":"people to have come from startup"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":289.38,"endTime":292.86,"body":"and only work and startup, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":292.86,"endTime":295.56,"body":"you can get it anywhere. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":292.86,"endTime":295.56,"body":"I was an entrepreneur, even when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":295.56,"endTime":299.01,"body":"I worked at a large company, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":295.56,"endTime":299.01,"body":"just didn't know it. So I got"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":299.01,"endTime":303.96,"body":"the opportunity to excel. Breast"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":299.01,"endTime":303.96,"body":"fat in a startup. The benefits"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":304.08,"endTime":307.14,"body":"for with having brought that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":304.08,"endTime":307.14,"body":"large company experience is when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":307.14,"endTime":311.85,"body":"we start to scale to simple"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":307.14,"endTime":311.85,"body":"things like, you know, HLRs"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":311.85,"endTime":316.14,"body":"ease, or other things that a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":311.85,"endTime":316.14,"body":"startups never come across, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":316.14,"endTime":319.53,"body":"know, as somebody working in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":316.14,"endTime":319.53,"body":"larger organization. So well, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":319.53,"endTime":322.17,"body":"know how this works. You know, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":319.53,"endTime":322.17,"body":"know how to do annual"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":322.17,"endTime":326.46,"body":"appraisals, I know how to do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":322.17,"endTime":326.46,"body":"this kind of thing. So I brought"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":326.46,"endTime":329.31,"body":"that experience with me. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":326.46,"endTime":329.31,"body":"it's saved, for example, getting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":329.31,"endTime":333.03,"body":"an external advisors or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":329.31,"endTime":333.03,"body":"whatever, to help with some of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":333.03,"endTime":339.0,"body":"that. So I mean, the challenge"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":333.03,"endTime":339.0,"body":"as a founder is guess, startup"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":339.0,"endTime":342.6,"body":"mentality, but they may have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":339.0,"endTime":342.6,"body":"come, or they may have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":342.6,"endTime":345.09,"body":"significant large company"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":342.6,"endTime":345.09,"body":"experience as well,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":345.119,"endTime":347.579,"body":"yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":345.119,"endTime":347.579,"body":"everyone wants someone to work"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":347.579,"endTime":351.389,"body":"for them who's T shaped, I"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":347.579,"endTime":351.389,"body":"guess, if you're in the right"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":351.419,"endTime":355.529,"body":"role in the right corporate"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":351.419,"endTime":355.529,"body":"company, you can have a broader"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":355.529,"endTime":359.849,"body":"skill set that you teach that"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":355.529,"endTime":359.849,"body":"early stage environment. So that"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":359.849,"endTime":363.449,"body":"company that you joined, that"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":359.849,"endTime":363.449,"body":"was sown forks, and they had a"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":363.449,"endTime":368.939,"body":"really fascinating journey. I"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":363.449,"endTime":368.939,"body":"was involved in a like slightly"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":368.939,"endTime":373.619,"body":"by helping hire people. But it"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":368.939,"endTime":373.619,"body":"was great to be part of it. But"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":373.619,"endTime":376.769,"body":"it'd be good to hear from you."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":373.619,"endTime":376.769,"body":"Like, what are the kind of like"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":376.769,"endTime":382.289,"body":"key challenges that you"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":376.769,"endTime":382.289,"body":"encountered there? What were the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":382.289,"endTime":385.199,"body":"kind of like Product Market Fit"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":382.289,"endTime":385.199,"body":"challenges being in such an"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":385.229,"endTime":386.699,"body":"early stage business?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":386.729,"endTime":391.769,"body":"Okay, so I think so I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":386.729,"endTime":391.769,"body":"joined, the company had one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":391.799,"endTime":395.009,"body":"customer at that stage, and they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":391.799,"endTime":395.009,"body":"were getting a lot of really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":395.009,"endTime":397.949,"body":"positive feedback from that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":395.009,"endTime":397.949,"body":"customer, which was great. 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And once we got"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":430.709,"endTime":433.649,"body":"our first three, four or five"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":430.709,"endTime":433.649,"body":"customers, that became easier,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":434.429,"endTime":438.149,"body":"until it became harder when we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":434.429,"endTime":438.149,"body":"have lots of customers. And then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":438.149,"endTime":442.439,"body":"suddenly, the chief exec and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":438.149,"endTime":442.439,"body":"myself, which I'm listening to a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":442.439,"endTime":445.379,"body":"huge number of customers, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":442.439,"endTime":445.379,"body":"trying to balance all these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":445.379,"endTime":448.889,"body":"requests. And it's very easy to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":445.379,"endTime":448.889,"body":"get dragged into the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":448.889,"endTime":452.639,"body":"conversation of I want this one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":448.889,"endTime":452.639,"body":"feature, if only give me this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":452.639,"endTime":458.189,"body":"feature. And part of the journey"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":452.639,"endTime":458.189,"body":"I've been on towards C PTO is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":458.189,"endTime":461.129,"body":"understanding, digging into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":458.189,"endTime":461.129,"body":"what's the problem we're trying"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":461.129,"endTime":464.039,"body":"to solve here? What's the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":461.129,"endTime":464.039,"body":"customer problem? What's the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":464.039,"endTime":467.489,"body":"challenge they have? Why can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":464.039,"endTime":467.489,"body":"they do it with other products?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":467.489,"endTime":469.559,"body":"Why can't they deal with our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":467.489,"endTime":469.559,"body":"product? Better? What"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":469.559,"endTime":472.379,"body":"workarounds are they using at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":469.559,"endTime":472.379,"body":"the moment, and really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":472.379,"endTime":475.169,"body":"understanding that kind of loop."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":472.379,"endTime":475.169,"body":"Because if you understand that,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":475.199,"endTime":478.379,"body":"then you can build something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":475.199,"endTime":478.379,"body":"that is a general solution to a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":478.379,"endTime":478.829,"body":"problem."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":479.01,"endTime":482.19,"body":"That's a great"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":479.01,"endTime":482.19,"body":"insight, especially for company,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":482.19,"endTime":486.3,"body":"there's early days, and a is so"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":482.19,"endTime":486.3,"body":"easy to be pulled in the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":486.3,"endTime":489.57,"body":"direction of what your customers"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":486.3,"endTime":489.57,"body":"want to do, rather than stick to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":489.57,"endTime":494.4,"body":"a strategy, especially when"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":489.57,"endTime":494.4,"body":"you're under pressure to keep"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":494.4,"endTime":495.99,"body":"revenue coming in. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":496.44,"endTime":498.57,"body":"it's absolutely and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":496.44,"endTime":498.57,"body":"it's it's one of those things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":498.57,"endTime":501.24,"body":"where the sales team come along"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":498.57,"endTime":501.24,"body":"and say, if you write me this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":501.24,"endTime":504.39,"body":"one feature, I can sign a big"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":501.24,"endTime":504.39,"body":"customer. And you're looking at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":504.39,"endTime":507.96,"body":"your strategy thinking, well,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":504.39,"endTime":507.96,"body":"that's not what we're aiming to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":507.96,"endTime":510.66,"body":"do. But you've got a commercial"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":507.96,"endTime":510.66,"body":"pressure of Yeah, but we could"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":510.66,"endTime":513.6,"body":"really deal with the revenue."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":510.66,"endTime":513.6,"body":"And the customer will definitely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":513.6,"endTime":515.52,"body":"sign if you go build, if you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":513.6,"endTime":515.52,"body":"build that for me."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":515.639,"endTime":518.729,"body":"And you know,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":515.639,"endTime":518.729,"body":"as an investment, money's"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":518.729,"endTime":521.609,"body":"tightening up just now, I think"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":518.729,"endTime":521.609,"body":"that's a trap that a lot of"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":521.609,"endTime":525.389,"body":"early stage businesses need to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":521.609,"endTime":525.389,"body":"be aware of, and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":525.389,"endTime":528.749,"body":"certainly take quite a balanced"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":525.389,"endTime":528.749,"body":"approach to between the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":528.779,"endTime":530.879,"body":"immediate and the long term"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":528.779,"endTime":530.879,"body":"where they can,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":530.94,"endTime":533.7,"body":"yeah, and if there's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":530.94,"endTime":533.7,"body":"great book, the bill to trap out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":533.7,"endTime":536.52,"body":"there, I'm gonna get it on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":533.7,"endTime":536.52,"body":"Kindle, Amazon, whatever. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":536.52,"endTime":539.19,"body":"this covers this really well."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":536.52,"endTime":539.19,"body":"And I found myself reading that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":539.22,"endTime":542.73,"body":"years ago, reading the first few"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":539.22,"endTime":542.73,"body":"chapters, just thinking, yep, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":542.73,"endTime":545.43,"body":"made that mistake. Yep, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":542.73,"endTime":545.43,"body":"remember doing that. Yep. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":545.43,"endTime":547.44,"body":"it's one of those books where"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":545.43,"endTime":547.44,"body":"you just walk away thinking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":547.44,"endTime":551.07,"body":"crikey, I could have done with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":547.44,"endTime":551.07,"body":"this 10 years ago. So if you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":551.07,"endTime":553.71,"body":"find yourself in that space, go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":551.07,"endTime":553.71,"body":"read the book. It's a really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":553.71,"endTime":554.64,"body":"fascinating read."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":554.79,"endTime":557.25,"body":"There's a"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":554.79,"endTime":557.25,"body":"great recommendation, I'll put a"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":557.25,"endTime":561.27,"body":"link in the notes so people can"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":557.25,"endTime":561.27,"body":"find that later. So one of the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":561.27,"endTime":565.32,"body":"other things that was really"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":561.27,"endTime":565.32,"body":"interesting about sonar Fox was"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":565.32,"endTime":569.52,"body":"that the team grew just so"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":565.32,"endTime":569.52,"body":"quickly. There were I think"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":569.52,"endTime":573.27,"body":"there were like six of you, then"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":569.52,"endTime":573.27,"body":"maybe like nine A few days"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":573.27,"endTime":577.92,"body":"later, then within months, like"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":573.27,"endTime":577.92,"body":"how big How big is the team"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":577.92,"endTime":579.18,"body":"goal, it cost the business."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":579.209,"endTime":582.539,"body":"So well, we secured a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":579.209,"endTime":582.539,"body":"significant round of investment,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":582.659,"endTime":587.519,"body":"and you know, that was to fund"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":582.659,"endTime":587.519,"body":"team growth. And we went from, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":587.519,"endTime":594.599,"body":"think off the top of my head's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":587.519,"endTime":594.599,"body":"from about 12 to about 25 and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":594.599,"endTime":599.699,"body":"took the call. I spoke with the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":594.599,"endTime":599.699,"body":"chief exec and the board, about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":599.699,"endTime":604.139,"body":"how We were going to do that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":599.699,"endTime":604.139,"body":"And, yes, I mean, you, you very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":604.139,"endTime":606.929,"body":"much helped us on the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":604.139,"endTime":606.929,"body":"recruitment side of things. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":606.929,"endTime":611.459,"body":"I was keen, and people thought I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":606.929,"endTime":611.459,"body":"was crazy Demis I was keen to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":611.459,"endTime":614.969,"body":"actually get all the new"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":611.459,"endTime":614.969,"body":"startups in at once. And do this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":614.969,"endTime":619.859,"body":"as a wave, rather than a sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":614.969,"endTime":619.859,"body":"trickle. And my logic for that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":619.889,"endTime":622.859,"body":"was, and people disagree with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":619.889,"endTime":622.859,"body":"this, but I think it was the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":622.859,"endTime":626.819,"body":"right thing. It's still today."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":622.859,"endTime":626.819,"body":"My logic was we treat them as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":626.819,"endTime":630.029,"body":"cohort, almost like university,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":626.819,"endTime":630.029,"body":"you know, all the first years"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":630.029,"endTime":633.359,"body":"come in at the same time,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":630.029,"endTime":633.359,"body":"because it takes so much time to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":633.359,"endTime":637.769,"body":"onboard people and train them."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":633.359,"endTime":637.769,"body":"And a lot of it's common. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":637.769,"endTime":640.079,"body":"what are the mission? What's the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":637.769,"endTime":640.079,"body":"mission? What are the values?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":640.109,"endTime":642.809,"body":"What are we trying to achieve?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":640.109,"endTime":642.809,"body":"What is the product do? Who are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":642.809,"endTime":646.649,"body":"our customers? So my view is we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":642.809,"endTime":646.649,"body":"get in a cohort, and we train"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":646.649,"endTime":649.469,"body":"them all on that stuff, some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":646.649,"endTime":649.469,"body":"tenuously, and then once we've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":649.469,"endTime":653.909,"body":"done that, then they can go off"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":649.469,"endTime":653.909,"body":"to their specific teams, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":653.969,"endTime":657.599,"body":"learn the specifics for their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":653.969,"endTime":657.599,"body":"role. I think it works pretty"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":657.599,"endTime":662.189,"body":"well. And the side effect of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":657.599,"endTime":662.189,"body":"that was not only did we reduce"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":662.219,"endTime":666.539,"body":"overhead for the leadership"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":662.219,"endTime":666.539,"body":"team, but also that cohort"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":666.539,"endTime":669.449,"body":"became in built a lot of team"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":666.539,"endTime":669.449,"body":"spirit, because they'd all come"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":669.449,"endTime":671.819,"body":"in together, and they're all new"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":669.449,"endTime":671.819,"body":"starts together. So they got to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":671.819,"endTime":675.449,"body":"know one another, and form"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":671.819,"endTime":675.449,"body":"really strong relationships,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":675.449,"endTime":678.779,"body":"working relationships with one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":675.449,"endTime":678.779,"body":"another. So rather than just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":678.779,"endTime":682.079,"body":"having, you know, one, you start"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":678.779,"endTime":682.079,"body":"in this team of couple in this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":682.079,"endTime":685.199,"body":"team and couple over there, who"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":682.079,"endTime":685.199,"body":"didn't know one another, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":685.199,"endTime":688.679,"body":"they felt isolated. Actually,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":685.199,"endTime":688.679,"body":"they had a great working"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":688.679,"endTime":693.029,"body":"relationship. So it was a bit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":688.679,"endTime":693.029,"body":"left field bad approach. But for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":693.029,"endTime":695.459,"body":"us, I think it worked really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":693.029,"endTime":695.459,"body":"well. Having spent"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":695.46,"endTime":697.32,"body":"time in that"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":695.46,"endTime":697.32,"body":"office, I do think that it"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":697.32,"endTime":701.61,"body":"really fostered a sense of team"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":697.32,"endTime":701.61,"body":"spirit. And it meant that"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":701.61,"endTime":704.43,"body":"everybody was on boarded"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":701.61,"endTime":704.43,"body":"properly to the business, which"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":704.43,"endTime":708.72,"body":"is something a lot of early"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":704.43,"endTime":708.72,"body":"stage companies. It's just"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":708.72,"endTime":712.11,"body":"really time consuming for"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":708.72,"endTime":712.11,"body":"someone to constantly be taking"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":712.11,"endTime":714.9,"body":"out for one person to do the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":712.11,"endTime":714.9,"body":"demo another person's talk to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":714.9,"endTime":719.58,"body":"the culture and values. Just to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":714.9,"endTime":719.58,"body":"explain like this is, this is"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":719.58,"endTime":723.45,"body":"how we work here. This is an I"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":719.58,"endTime":723.45,"body":"think that one of the other"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":723.45,"endTime":727.26,"body":"benefits was it gave everybody a"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":723.45,"endTime":727.26,"body":"much more holistic view of what"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":727.26,"endTime":729.72,"body":"was happening in the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":727.26,"endTime":729.72,"body":"organization. So although it"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":729.72,"endTime":732.6,"body":"seemed like a very much like a"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":729.72,"endTime":732.6,"body":"bit of a big bang, more than"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":732.6,"endTime":737.04,"body":"doubling a small company"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":732.6,"endTime":737.04,"body":"overnight, it made the change"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":737.04,"endTime":741.21,"body":"process much smoother. And"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":737.04,"endTime":741.21,"body":"everybody within the existing"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":741.21,"endTime":745.38,"body":"team was involved in some way."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":741.21,"endTime":745.38,"body":"So like the people who were"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":745.38,"endTime":750.54,"body":"there before and for in the new"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":745.38,"endTime":750.54,"body":"cohort joined. So people got to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":750.54,"endTime":751.77,"body":"know each other pretty well."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":751.799,"endTime":757.049,"body":"Yep. So So I agree. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":751.799,"endTime":757.049,"body":"Chief tech myself, we put"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":757.049,"endTime":760.499,"body":"together what we called"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":757.049,"endTime":760.499,"body":"cenforce. University, he his"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":760.499,"endTime":762.899,"body":"idea, and I thought it was great"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":760.499,"endTime":762.899,"body":"name. And we had different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":762.929,"endTime":767.339,"body":"sections within that. And we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":762.929,"endTime":767.339,"body":"challenged one another to create"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":767.339,"endTime":770.549,"body":"content. And I would demo my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":767.339,"endTime":770.549,"body":"content to him. And he would do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":770.549,"endTime":774.209,"body":"the same to me. And we would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":770.549,"endTime":774.209,"body":"make sure we were both happy"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":774.209,"endTime":777.749,"body":"with it. And you know, the best"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":774.209,"endTime":777.749,"body":"it could be. So that when we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":777.749,"endTime":782.099,"body":"presented it to the team, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":777.749,"endTime":782.099,"body":"wasn't just a poor leader, doing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":782.129,"endTime":785.669,"body":"something they knocked together"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":782.129,"endTime":785.669,"body":"in half an hour. This was a well"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":785.669,"endTime":789.749,"body":"thought out well structured,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":785.669,"endTime":789.749,"body":"sequenced onboarding program,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":790.139,"endTime":792.539,"body":"which we wouldn't have had time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":790.139,"endTime":792.539,"body":"to do if we were doing this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":792.539,"endTime":795.509,"body":"drip, drip, drip sort of one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":792.539,"endTime":795.509,"body":"person at a time. It's different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":795.509,"endTime":799.799,"body":"teams. The chief exec and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":795.509,"endTime":799.799,"body":"spent, you know, several weeks"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":799.799,"endTime":803.039,"body":"putting this together. But the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":799.799,"endTime":803.039,"body":"return was, as you say, huge,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":803.039,"endTime":806.249,"body":"because it built knowledge. It"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":803.039,"endTime":806.249,"body":"got everyone on the same page,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":806.249,"endTime":809.999,"body":"what are we about? Why do we do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":806.249,"endTime":809.999,"body":"this? Why do people care? What"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":809.999,"endTime":812.669,"body":"problem are we solving? How do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":809.999,"endTime":812.669,"body":"we work? You know, what do we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":812.669,"endTime":816.059,"body":"value? What don't we value. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":812.669,"endTime":816.059,"body":"it was really important for us"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":816.089,"endTime":817.919,"body":"and other"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":816.089,"endTime":817.919,"body":"things that I would be"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":817.919,"endTime":821.939,"body":"fascinated to get your insights"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":817.919,"endTime":821.939,"body":"on, it's just a topic of"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":821.939,"endTime":826.229,"body":"conversation, which seems to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":821.939,"endTime":826.229,"body":"come up quite a bit just now is"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":826.229,"endTime":830.309,"body":"about getting the most out of"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":826.229,"endTime":830.309,"body":"your engineering team. As you"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":830.309,"endTime":833.219,"body":"grow, a lot of people are keen"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":830.309,"endTime":833.219,"body":"to truly scale rather than just"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":833.219,"endTime":837.989,"body":"add bodies to a process and you"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":833.219,"endTime":837.989,"body":"know, try and really reap the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":837.989,"endTime":842.999,"body":"benefits of having extra people"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":837.989,"endTime":842.999,"body":"in their team. So it would be"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":842.999,"endTime":846.869,"body":"great if you could tell me a"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":842.999,"endTime":846.869,"body":"little bit about that. And where"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":846.869,"endTime":851.489,"body":"I'd like to start is, you have"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":846.869,"endTime":851.489,"body":"some great insights on this. So"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":851.489,"endTime":854.189,"body":"could you tell me a little bit"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":851.489,"endTime":854.189,"body":"about the difference between"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":854.219,"endTime":857.789,"body":"effectiveness and efficiency of"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":854.219,"endTime":857.789,"body":"development teams?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":858.09,"endTime":862.77,"body":"Sure, of course. So I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":858.09,"endTime":862.77,"body":"find a lot of companies struggle"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":862.77,"endTime":867.0,"body":"upon they move between when it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":862.77,"endTime":867.0,"body":"was two engineers or three"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":867.0,"endTime":869.55,"body":"engineers there, there was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":867.0,"endTime":869.55,"body":"almost telepathy, you know, they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":869.55,"endTime":871.92,"body":"didn't have to talk. They just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":869.55,"endTime":871.92,"body":"knew what was going on. And they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":871.92,"endTime":875.55,"body":"could work really efficiently"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":871.92,"endTime":875.55,"body":"together great. When you start"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":875.55,"endTime":879.36,"body":"hitting 678, it becomes a bit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":875.55,"endTime":879.36,"body":"more difficult. And when you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":879.36,"endTime":882.96,"body":"start going north of about eight"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":879.36,"endTime":882.96,"body":"engineers, suddenly nothing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":882.96,"endTime":885.21,"body":"works. It feels like you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":882.96,"endTime":885.21,"body":"walking through treacle, you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":885.21,"endTime":888.87,"body":"dragging a big anchor behind you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":885.21,"endTime":888.87,"body":"everything slow, it's broken, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":889.29,"endTime":893.61,"body":"doesn't work. So that's the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":889.29,"endTime":893.61,"body":"point of which people start"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":893.61,"endTime":897.24,"body":"worrying about efficient teams"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":893.61,"endTime":897.24,"body":"and trying to make the team more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":897.24,"endTime":903.15,"body":"efficient. And they think that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":897.24,"endTime":903.15,"body":"means is working faster. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":903.18,"endTime":907.23,"body":"that is what efficient means. It"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":903.18,"endTime":907.23,"body":"means, you know, I can put out a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":907.23,"endTime":911.73,"body":"release every day as opposed to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":907.23,"endTime":911.73,"body":"every week. Great. But I've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":911.73,"endTime":916.08,"body":"challenged that. And I've got a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":911.73,"endTime":916.08,"body":"couple of insights papers on my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":916.08,"endTime":920.52,"body":"website to make the difference"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":916.08,"endTime":920.52,"body":"between efficient and effective."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":921.15,"endTime":923.94,"body":"Because there is a well known"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":921.15,"endTime":923.94,"body":"principle that something like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":923.97,"endTime":930.75,"body":"80 90% of code written is never"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":923.97,"endTime":930.75,"body":"used by users or only ever used"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":930.78,"endTime":934.8,"body":"infrequently. So what actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":930.78,"endTime":934.8,"body":"we should be doing is not trying"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":934.8,"endTime":939.15,"body":"to write that code faster, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":934.8,"endTime":939.15,"body":"not write that code, only write"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":939.15,"endTime":942.6,"body":"the code that people are going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":939.15,"endTime":942.6,"body":"to use. And that's what I term"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":942.63,"endTime":947.28,"body":"effective. So I want teams to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":942.63,"endTime":947.28,"body":"effective, even though maybe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":947.28,"endTime":950.22,"body":"more efficient teams, you can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":947.28,"endTime":950.22,"body":"churn out code faster. But I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":950.22,"endTime":952.59,"body":"want to be the team that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":950.22,"endTime":952.59,"body":"writing the code that people are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":952.59,"endTime":955.05,"body":"going to use, because that's the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":952.59,"endTime":955.05,"body":"value"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":955.139,"endTime":959.129,"body":"and how do you"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":955.139,"endTime":959.129,"body":"go about achieving that outcome?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":959.129,"endTime":963.839,"body":"Because it is seems so logical,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":959.129,"endTime":963.839,"body":"it's actually a challenge the,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":964.259,"endTime":967.799,"body":"you know, resumes across so many"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":964.259,"endTime":967.799,"body":"industries, like in recruitment,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":968.069,"endTime":971.369,"body":"I only want to contact the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":968.069,"endTime":971.369,"body":"relevant candidates rather than"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":971.369,"endTime":975.659,"body":"lots of candidates. So there's"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":971.369,"endTime":975.659,"body":"probably some thing that anyone"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":975.659,"endTime":977.969,"body":"listening to this can take from"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":975.659,"endTime":977.969,"body":"the conversation."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":978.0,"endTime":981.78,"body":"Yep. And you're right,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":978.0,"endTime":981.78,"body":"it's, it's the most naive level,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":981.78,"endTime":984.48,"body":"it's simple. It seems"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":981.78,"endTime":984.48,"body":"ridiculously simple. Well, of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":984.48,"endTime":987.72,"body":"course, I'm not going to know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":984.48,"endTime":987.72,"body":"just called working smarter,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":988.14,"endTime":992.61,"body":"rather than harder in some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":988.14,"endTime":992.61,"body":"areas. But for this for product,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":992.67,"endTime":997.53,"body":"it's about, and this is where"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":992.67,"endTime":997.53,"body":"the CP to roll really came from."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":997.92,"endTime":1001.28,"body":"It's about recognizing, it's not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":997.92,"endTime":1001.28,"body":"just about code quality, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1001.28,"endTime":1003.92,"body":"need to go speak to your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1001.28,"endTime":1003.92,"body":"customers, find out what they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1003.92,"endTime":1007.13,"body":"want, what they want to buy,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1003.92,"endTime":1007.13,"body":"find out what problems they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1007.13,"endTime":1010.37,"body":"have, find out how they would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1007.13,"endTime":1010.37,"body":"like to solve those problems."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1010.76,"endTime":1014.3,"body":"And then bring it back to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1010.76,"endTime":1014.3,"body":"engineering team. And say, Well,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1014.3,"endTime":1019.76,"body":"how can this be built? And if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1014.3,"endTime":1019.76,"body":"so, how do we build it? So you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1019.76,"endTime":1024.29,"body":"know, I, I look, in my with my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1019.76,"endTime":1024.29,"body":"CPE to hat on, I look at various"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1024.29,"endTime":1027.38,"body":"different risks, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1024.29,"endTime":1027.38,"body":"value of risk? Can I sell this?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1027.41,"endTime":1031.16,"body":"Can I make money from it?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1027.41,"endTime":1031.16,"body":"Usability risk? Can I build"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1031.16,"endTime":1035.51,"body":"something that is customers are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1031.16,"endTime":1035.51,"body":"going to enjoy using from a UX"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1035.51,"endTime":1039.5,"body":"perspective, the feasibility? Is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1035.51,"endTime":1039.5,"body":"it technically possible? And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1039.5,"endTime":1043.13,"body":"then the business viability? Are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1039.5,"endTime":1043.13,"body":"we the right people to build"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1043.13,"endTime":1048.59,"body":"this? So if we take value first,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1043.13,"endTime":1048.59,"body":"I want to understand, is anyone"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1048.59,"endTime":1050.63,"body":"going to buy this? Why are they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1048.59,"endTime":1050.63,"body":"going to buy it? What what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1050.63,"endTime":1055.34,"body":"problem? Am I solving for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1050.63,"endTime":1055.34,"body":"people? And that's where if I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1055.34,"endTime":1058.34,"body":"get that, right, I can then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1055.34,"endTime":1058.34,"body":"engage engineering to do the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1058.34,"endTime":1061.85,"body":"feasibility piece? Is it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1058.34,"endTime":1061.85,"body":"possible with the right company"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1061.85,"endTime":1065.87,"body":"to build it? And that's how I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1061.85,"endTime":1065.87,"body":"work out right? What's the 20%"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1065.9,"endTime":1069.29,"body":"of people are going to use often"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1065.9,"endTime":1069.29,"body":"all the time says really"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1069.53,"endTime":1072.5,"body":"interesting, I"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1069.53,"endTime":1072.5,"body":"guess, just, you know, working"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1072.5,"endTime":1076.37,"body":"smarter, but that's actually"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1072.5,"endTime":1076.37,"body":"being a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1076.37,"endTime":1081.29,"body":"strategic and commercial, and"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1076.37,"endTime":1081.29,"body":"taking a more holistic view to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1081.29,"endTime":1088.31,"body":"things rather than busy work. So"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1081.29,"endTime":1088.31,"body":"I'm just interested to know you"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1088.31,"endTime":1093.5,"body":"started its own Fox as a CTO,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1088.31,"endTime":1093.5,"body":"and then you've now moved into a"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1093.5,"endTime":1098.63,"body":"CP CIO role. How did you make"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1093.5,"endTime":1098.63,"body":"that transition is something a"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1098.63,"endTime":1103.31,"body":"lot of people are interested in,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1098.63,"endTime":1103.31,"body":"but don't really know how to do"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1103.31,"endTime":1107.9,"body":"and there's ambiguity about what"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1103.31,"endTime":1107.9,"body":"that CPT or rules looks like. So"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1108.17,"endTime":1110.93,"body":"we could we could discuss all"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1108.17,"endTime":1110.93,"body":"this, but find out how you"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1110.93,"endTime":1111.74,"body":"transitioned?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1112.069,"endTime":1116.839,"body":"Sure, of course. So I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1112.069,"endTime":1116.839,"body":"made that transition. So I made"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1116.839,"endTime":1121.969,"body":"a lot of mistakes. Hey, I came"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1116.839,"endTime":1121.969,"body":"into the CTO role. And I knew my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1122.389,"endTime":1126.619,"body":"technology background, I could"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1122.389,"endTime":1126.619,"body":"lead teams to build really,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1126.619,"endTime":1132.259,"body":"really good, well engineered"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1126.619,"endTime":1132.259,"body":"product. But I found we, as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1132.259,"endTime":1135.739,"body":"team, we get super excited about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1132.259,"endTime":1135.739,"body":"some new feature, and we put it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1135.739,"endTime":1140.239,"body":"out there, and we find customers"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1135.739,"endTime":1140.239,"body":"were ambivalent about it. You"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1140.239,"endTime":1142.909,"body":"know, and we were struggling to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1140.239,"endTime":1142.909,"body":"get people to adopt it and use"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1142.909,"endTime":1147.559,"body":"it regularly. And I think over"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1142.909,"endTime":1147.559,"body":"the years, I began to realize"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1147.919,"endTime":1152.449,"body":"this difference between writing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1147.919,"endTime":1152.449,"body":"really good code, directed by"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1152.449,"endTime":1155.929,"body":"gut feel, you know, what do I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1152.449,"endTime":1155.929,"body":"think my intuition tells me a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1155.929,"endTime":1159.709,"body":"customer might like this, to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1155.929,"endTime":1159.709,"body":"actually managing the risk"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1159.709,"endTime":1163.489,"body":"better, and asking customers"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1159.709,"endTime":1163.489,"body":"more or understanding what job"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1163.489,"endTime":1166.909,"body":"they're trying to do. And then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1163.489,"endTime":1166.909,"body":"solving that, and then creating"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1166.909,"endTime":1174.979,"body":"a lightweight, lightweight sort"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1166.909,"endTime":1174.979,"body":"of MVPs or demo products or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1174.979,"endTime":1180.229,"body":"something to show customers get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1174.979,"endTime":1180.229,"body":"their feedback. Now, I made the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1180.229,"endTime":1183.859,"body":"mistake initially of just trying"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1180.229,"endTime":1183.859,"body":"to drive the product or a CTO"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1183.859,"endTime":1187.789,"body":"I've kind of almost had product"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1183.859,"endTime":1187.789,"body":"responsibility. And I tried to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1187.789,"endTime":1192.259,"body":"drive it too much to my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1187.789,"endTime":1192.259,"body":"intuition. And through learning,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1192.259,"endTime":1195.229,"body":"seeing other people do better"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1192.259,"endTime":1195.229,"body":"through various readings. I've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1195.229,"endTime":1199.699,"body":"learned there is a more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1195.229,"endTime":1199.699,"body":"effective way to do that. So I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1199.699,"endTime":1203.449,"body":"found this self in a place where"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1199.699,"endTime":1203.449,"body":"I really liked human psychology"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1203.479,"endTime":1207.319,"body":"and understanding the way people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1203.479,"endTime":1207.319,"body":"think the way people by the way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1207.319,"endTime":1210.979,"body":"people evaluate. And I took that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1207.319,"endTime":1210.979,"body":"sort of personal interest and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1210.979,"endTime":1214.279,"body":"mixed it with my technology"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1210.979,"endTime":1214.279,"body":"background, and found myself,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1214.999,"endTime":1218.989,"body":"unfortunately, between a CPO,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1214.999,"endTime":1218.989,"body":"chief product and a CTO chief"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1218.989,"endTime":1222.139,"body":"technology. And I found myself"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1218.989,"endTime":1222.139,"body":"sort of in the middle and people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1222.139,"endTime":1227.449,"body":"used to ask me, Are you a CTO or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1222.139,"endTime":1227.449,"body":"a CPO? And I didn't know. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1227.449,"endTime":1231.199,"body":"then someone really helpfully"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1227.449,"endTime":1231.199,"body":"invented the term C PTO to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1231.199,"endTime":1234.679,"body":"decide to define that person"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1231.199,"endTime":1234.679,"body":"stuck in the middle. So as I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1234.709,"endTime":1237.409,"body":"thank goodness, I've got a badge"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1234.709,"endTime":1237.409,"body":"that I can wear that actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1237.409,"endTime":1239.929,"body":"describes what I think I've been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1237.409,"endTime":1239.929,"body":"doing for several years now."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1240.14,"endTime":1243.71,"body":"Sounds like a"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1240.14,"endTime":1243.71,"body":"combination of just being really"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1243.71,"endTime":1248.24,"body":"close to the customer, testing"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1243.71,"endTime":1248.24,"body":"and validating ideas before"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1248.24,"endTime":1254.78,"body":"proceeding. And you're being"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1248.24,"endTime":1254.78,"body":"open to other people's feedback"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1254.78,"endTime":1258.05,"body":"a little bit more seems to have"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1254.78,"endTime":1258.05,"body":"helped you along that journey."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1258.08,"endTime":1261.02,"body":"Yeah, I mean, I think,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1258.08,"endTime":1261.02,"body":"lesson number one, be humble,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1261.05,"endTime":1264.83,"body":"you don't have the answers. Now"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1261.05,"endTime":1264.83,"body":"you need to, you need the tools"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1264.83,"endTime":1268.4,"body":"and skills to find the answers."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1264.83,"endTime":1268.4,"body":"And you as you said, Rebecca,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1268.4,"endTime":1271.4,"body":"you need to be open to because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1268.4,"endTime":1271.4,"body":"someone will come along saying I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1271.4,"endTime":1275.21,"body":"want this, I think it should be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1271.4,"endTime":1275.21,"body":"done this way. And you're going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1275.21,"endTime":1278.27,"body":"to have this feeling in your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1275.21,"endTime":1278.27,"body":"gut, well, that's rubbish, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1278.27,"endTime":1281.66,"body":"would never do that way. And you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1278.27,"endTime":1281.66,"body":"need to be humble enough to say,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1281.66,"endTime":1284.72,"body":"actually, I probably got this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1281.66,"endTime":1284.72,"body":"wrong. You know, you're the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1284.72,"endTime":1286.55,"body":"customer, you're the one with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1284.72,"endTime":1286.55,"body":"the money. You're the one with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1286.55,"endTime":1290.45,"body":"doing this day to day, you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1286.55,"endTime":1290.45,"body":"the one with the problem. So I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1290.45,"endTime":1294.35,"body":"will be open to the idea that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1290.45,"endTime":1294.35,"body":"made a mistake. And I got it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1294.35,"endTime":1298.43,"body":"wrong. And let's try it your way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1294.35,"endTime":1298.43,"body":"and see if you're way worse. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1298.43,"endTime":1301.37,"body":"I will take your ideas. And I'll"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1298.43,"endTime":1301.37,"body":"pay them back several other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1301.37,"endTime":1304.94,"body":"customers and see if it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1301.37,"endTime":1304.94,"body":"resonates with them. But yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1304.94,"endTime":1309.59,"body":"that there's nothing worse for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1304.94,"endTime":1309.59,"body":"CTO or engineering teams then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1309.59,"endTime":1313.4,"body":"getting really excited about the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1309.59,"endTime":1313.4,"body":"latest development, putting it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1313.4,"endTime":1316.82,"body":"up there on the App Store or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1313.4,"endTime":1316.82,"body":"releasing it to customers. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1316.82,"endTime":1320.63,"body":"it nobody uses it. It's the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1316.82,"endTime":1320.63,"body":"worst outcome ever. And I've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1320.63,"endTime":1323.72,"body":"been there most teams have been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1320.63,"endTime":1323.72,"body":"there. So that's what I tried to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1323.72,"endTime":1324.05,"body":"avoid."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1324.08,"endTime":1327.53,"body":"So if somebody"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1324.08,"endTime":1327.53,"body":"wants to be Ventoux, a CPT"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1327.53,"endTime":1332.84,"body":"overall, you know, I'm, I think"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1327.53,"endTime":1332.84,"body":"that doing that within an early"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1332.84,"endTime":1336.71,"body":"stage startup or scale up"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1332.84,"endTime":1336.71,"body":"business is the ideal place"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1336.71,"endTime":1341.36,"body":"because it the constraints that"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1336.71,"endTime":1341.36,"body":"are placed on that business,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1341.84,"endTime":1345.35,"body":"really augment the possibility"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1341.84,"endTime":1345.35,"body":"for that opportunity to become a"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1345.35,"endTime":1349.55,"body":"reality, if you want to, like"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1345.35,"endTime":1349.55,"body":"take yourself beyond technology."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1350.0,"endTime":1353.57,"body":"Yep. So agreed. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1350.0,"endTime":1353.57,"body":"think, a really early stage"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1353.6,"endTime":1357.47,"body":"startup, if you're wearing the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1353.6,"endTime":1357.47,"body":"hat of CTO, then ask the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1357.47,"endTime":1360.8,"body":"question, who's covering"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1357.47,"endTime":1360.8,"body":"product? Because if it's not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1360.8,"endTime":1365.48,"body":"you, then who is and if no one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1360.8,"endTime":1365.48,"body":"else says you need to do it. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1365.51,"endTime":1370.61,"body":"you need to, again, think about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1365.51,"endTime":1370.61,"body":"how do I decide what the product"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1370.61,"endTime":1374.69,"body":"is, for the next stage of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1370.61,"endTime":1374.69,"body":"organization, maybe the sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1375.5,"endTime":1380.69,"body":"1020 30 people, you might have a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1375.5,"endTime":1380.69,"body":"product of Sir, or you might"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1380.69,"endTime":1384.11,"body":"have a formal CPE to pass the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1380.69,"endTime":1384.11,"body":"point of which I've worked with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1384.11,"endTime":1387.65,"body":"a lot of organizations helping"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1384.11,"endTime":1387.65,"body":"mentor and guide their product"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1387.65,"endTime":1391.25,"body":"teams, and really get them"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1387.65,"endTime":1391.25,"body":"working effectively together"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1391.58,"endTime":1394.58,"body":"with engineering. So you have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1391.58,"endTime":1394.58,"body":"those kind of two stages, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1394.58,"endTime":1398.12,"body":"guess, three, the stage after"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1394.58,"endTime":1398.12,"body":"but the first stage is, you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1398.12,"endTime":1400.58,"body":"the person doesn't matter what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1398.12,"endTime":1400.58,"body":"your title is, you're probably"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1400.58,"endTime":1404.9,"body":"covering technology and product"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1400.58,"endTime":1404.9,"body":"together, you might be CEO, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1404.9,"endTime":1407.81,"body":"might be chief technology"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1404.9,"endTime":1407.81,"body":"officer, you might be something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1407.81,"endTime":1410.63,"body":"else, but you're kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1407.81,"endTime":1410.63,"body":"probably covering it all. The"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1410.63,"endTime":1414.26,"body":"next stage is, you're maybe more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1410.63,"endTime":1414.26,"body":"formally recognized as having"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1414.26,"endTime":1417.98,"body":"product, and you need to hone"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1414.26,"endTime":1417.98,"body":"your skills. And advisors can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1417.98,"endTime":1421.64,"body":"help with that. And then the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1417.98,"endTime":1421.64,"body":"stage after is the, you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1421.64,"endTime":1425.36,"body":"probably a board level or chief"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1421.64,"endTime":1425.36,"body":"product, whatever and you have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1425.69,"endTime":1429.83,"body":"several, maybe a CTO underneath"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1425.69,"endTime":1429.83,"body":"you and a CP o underneath you."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1430.19,"endTime":1434.03,"body":"And you're, you know, you've got"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1430.19,"endTime":1434.03,"body":"teams of people doing stuff. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1434.03,"endTime":1438.11,"body":"recognizing which phase which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1434.03,"endTime":1438.11,"body":"the three phases you're in, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1438.11,"endTime":1441.02,"body":"then gathering the appropriate"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1438.11,"endTime":1441.02,"body":"skills, background reading,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1441.02,"endTime":1445.52,"body":"study, mentors, people around"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1441.02,"endTime":1445.52,"body":"you to help you. That's probably"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1445.52,"endTime":1446.45,"body":"the most important thing."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1446.87,"endTime":1449.27,"body":"There's some"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1446.87,"endTime":1449.27,"body":"fantastic advice there and some"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1449.27,"endTime":1454.25,"body":"great tips. So now, now you're"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1449.27,"endTime":1454.25,"body":"out on your own. You've been"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1454.25,"endTime":1457.76,"body":"consulting with some of these"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1454.25,"endTime":1457.76,"body":"amazing businesses over the last"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1457.76,"endTime":1461.99,"body":"couple of years. Because now"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1457.76,"endTime":1461.99,"body":"you've been in like five exits"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1461.99,"endTime":1464.27,"body":"in your career, you've been"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1461.99,"endTime":1464.27,"body":"involved in this, but"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1464.36,"endTime":1469.01,"body":"phenomenal. You've obviously"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1464.36,"endTime":1469.01,"body":"worked out how to bring a lot of"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1469.01,"endTime":1472.82,"body":"value to those businesses based"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1469.01,"endTime":1472.82,"body":"on some of the stories. Could"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1472.82,"endTime":1476.03,"body":"you tell me a little bit about"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1472.82,"endTime":1476.03,"body":"how you've helped them do that"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1476.03,"endTime":1481.04,"body":"through, like strategy and teams"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1476.03,"endTime":1481.04,"body":"and anything technical, that's"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1481.04,"endTime":1482.69,"body":"relevant? That'd be amazing. Of"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1481.04,"endTime":1482.69,"body":"course."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1482.96,"endTime":1486.86,"body":"Yeah. So I've been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1482.96,"endTime":1486.86,"body":"through five exits, three, with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1486.86,"endTime":1491.54,"body":"myself and two as an advisor."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1486.86,"endTime":1491.54,"body":"And so I've seen the whole build"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1491.54,"endTime":1494.78,"body":"up to exit. I've seen the due"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1491.54,"endTime":1494.78,"body":"diligence process. I've helped"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1494.78,"endTime":1499.28,"body":"companies through that. But your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1494.78,"endTime":1499.28,"body":"question about how you build"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1499.31,"endTime":1505.76,"body":"value It's. So there are various"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1499.31,"endTime":1505.76,"body":"different metrics and revenue is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1505.76,"endTime":1508.7,"body":"one of them, but it's the one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1505.76,"endTime":1508.7,"body":"that people tend to focus on."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1509.6,"endTime":1515.51,"body":"But what I look for is long term"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1509.6,"endTime":1515.51,"body":"product viability, long term"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1515.51,"endTime":1519.26,"body":"customers, ease of attracting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1515.51,"endTime":1519.26,"body":"customers holding on to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1519.26,"endTime":1522.89,"body":"customers. And short that will"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1519.26,"endTime":1522.89,"body":"deliver revenue. But I don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1522.89,"endTime":1527.27,"body":"like to focus on revenue first."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1522.89,"endTime":1527.27,"body":"Because if you focus on revenue"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1527.27,"endTime":1531.65,"body":"first, then you will make short"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1527.27,"endTime":1531.65,"body":"term decisions is my opinion. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1531.65,"endTime":1534.29,"body":"you will make a decision, you'll"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1531.65,"endTime":1534.29,"body":"sign up a customer and they're a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1534.29,"endTime":1537.74,"body":"bad customer, they're, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1534.29,"endTime":1537.74,"body":"a customer, that's not a good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1537.74,"endTime":1542.33,"body":"fit, or they want a whole lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1537.74,"endTime":1542.33,"body":"worked into the product. And if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1542.33,"endTime":1545.12,"body":"they're a bad fit, they'll"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1542.33,"endTime":1545.12,"body":"churn, they'll leave you after"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1545.12,"endTime":1549.56,"body":"the first year. So I look for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1545.12,"endTime":1549.56,"body":"long term growth. And that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1549.56,"endTime":1554.84,"body":"what builds the value in an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1549.56,"endTime":1554.84,"body":"organization. Finding a customer"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1554.84,"endTime":1558.14,"body":"is a set of customers with a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1554.84,"endTime":1558.14,"body":"similar problem, coming up with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1558.14,"endTime":1561.38,"body":"a solution that solves that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1558.14,"endTime":1561.38,"body":"problem for multiple customers,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1561.41,"endTime":1565.01,"body":"and then talking about that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1561.41,"endTime":1565.01,"body":"product to that persona of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1565.01,"endTime":1568.28,"body":"customer. And that's what builds"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1565.01,"endTime":1568.28,"body":"value in the organization."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1568.46,"endTime":1571.46,"body":"Because that's what you can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1568.46,"endTime":1571.46,"body":"scale. And as an investor or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1571.46,"endTime":1575.6,"body":"acquire, they're gonna come in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1571.46,"endTime":1575.6,"body":"with their money, or assistance"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1575.6,"endTime":1579.11,"body":"or team or whatever. And they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1575.6,"endTime":1579.11,"body":"can magnify, they can scale that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1579.11,"endTime":1583.01,"body":"up. But if you've just got a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1579.11,"endTime":1583.01,"body":"series of one off sales, which a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1583.01,"endTime":1586.49,"body":"lot of startups do, they have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1583.01,"endTime":1586.49,"body":"great revenue numbers, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1586.49,"endTime":1589.52,"body":"they're really just a series of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1586.49,"endTime":1589.52,"body":"one off sales. You can't scale"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1589.52,"endTime":1590.96,"body":"that. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1591.56,"endTime":1595.16,"body":"So it needs to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1591.56,"endTime":1595.16,"body":"be repeatable and expandable,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1595.16,"endTime":1598.7,"body":"and, you know, documented well"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1595.16,"endTime":1598.7,"body":"thought out, I think that goes"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1598.7,"endTime":1601.1,"body":"across all all businesses."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1601.13,"endTime":1606.02,"body":"Yeah, so absolutely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1601.13,"endTime":1606.02,"body":"agree. And a good acquisition"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1606.02,"endTime":1609.71,"body":"team, a good DD team can spot"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1606.02,"endTime":1609.71,"body":"that. And they'll be able to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1609.71,"endTime":1612.83,"body":"work out is it just you've had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1609.71,"endTime":1612.83,"body":"10 delivers 10, one off sales"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1612.86,"endTime":1615.56,"body":"that have landed? Or actually do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1612.86,"endTime":1615.56,"body":"you have something that is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1615.56,"endTime":1619.43,"body":"repeatable. And this is why I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1615.56,"endTime":1619.43,"body":"get concerns with companies that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1619.43,"endTime":1622.91,"body":"solely talk about revenue"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1619.43,"endTime":1622.91,"body":"numbers as a success piece."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1623.27,"endTime":1627.62,"body":"Because, you know, there, there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1623.27,"endTime":1627.62,"body":"are markets that are businesses"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1627.62,"endTime":1630.56,"body":"out there, and I could make a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1627.62,"endTime":1630.56,"body":"load of money. But I'd be out of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1630.56,"endTime":1633.95,"body":"business after a year or two,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1630.56,"endTime":1633.95,"body":"because my customers, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1634.82,"endTime":1637.76,"body":"it's not a good fit, or the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1634.82,"endTime":1637.76,"body":"product isn't going in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1637.76,"endTime":1639.89,"body":"direction that they want. So I"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1639.89,"endTime":1643.13,"body":"speak to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1639.89,"endTime":1643.13,"body":"founders every day and"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1643.16,"endTime":1647.15,"body":"leadership teams. And there's a"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1643.16,"endTime":1647.15,"body":"couple of common challenges that"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1647.18,"endTime":1652.64,"body":"I'm seeing come up time and time"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1647.18,"endTime":1652.64,"body":"again. And one of them that I"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1652.64,"endTime":1658.79,"body":"love your insight on is how to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1652.64,"endTime":1658.79,"body":"balance like stealing product"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1658.82,"endTime":1662.54,"body":"and tech and knowing where to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1658.82,"endTime":1662.54,"body":"put your resources across the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1662.54,"endTime":1664.55,"body":"two functions. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1665.51,"endTime":1669.53,"body":"in it is a huge shine"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1665.51,"endTime":1669.53,"body":"for a lot of organizations. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1669.53,"endTime":1672.86,"body":"this is actually where I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1669.53,"endTime":1672.86,"body":"the CPT role comes into its own."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1673.4,"endTime":1677.96,"body":"Because if you have a CTO, and a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1673.4,"endTime":1677.96,"body":"CPO, they're effectively"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1677.96,"endTime":1681.44,"body":"fighting for resource a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1677.96,"endTime":1681.44,"body":"the time, the resources, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1681.44,"endTime":1688.07,"body":"engineering team, or QA team or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1681.44,"endTime":1688.07,"body":"whatever. The C PTO, or someone"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1688.07,"endTime":1690.56,"body":"with joint responsibility"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1688.07,"endTime":1690.56,"body":"actually has to balance it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1690.56,"endTime":1693.05,"body":"themselves and are fighting,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1690.56,"endTime":1693.05,"body":"they're just looking for the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1693.05,"endTime":1699.5,"body":"best outcome. And a good CP to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1693.05,"endTime":1699.5,"body":"balance is things like working"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1699.5,"endTime":1703.1,"body":"on technical debt, for example,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1699.5,"endTime":1703.1,"body":"with new sales opportunities."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1703.46,"endTime":1706.28,"body":"And there are various different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1703.46,"endTime":1706.28,"body":"models out there for modeling"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1706.7,"endTime":1712.19,"body":"the potential return from a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1706.7,"endTime":1712.19,"body":"particular development. But the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1712.19,"endTime":1717.23,"body":"key thing for me is, what is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1712.19,"endTime":1717.23,"body":"your strategy? And what's going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1717.23,"endTime":1721.04,"body":"to take you closer to your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1717.23,"endTime":1721.04,"body":"strategy? Because again, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1721.04,"endTime":1725.3,"body":"very easy to get distracted by"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1721.04,"endTime":1725.3,"body":"people talking about we need to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1725.3,"endTime":1727.43,"body":"fix this technical debt, or we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1725.3,"endTime":1727.43,"body":"need this new library because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1727.43,"endTime":1730.7,"body":"it's very cool. And we'd love to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1727.43,"endTime":1730.7,"body":"use it. Or else if we do this,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1730.7,"endTime":1735.26,"body":"we get, you know, half a million"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1730.7,"endTime":1735.26,"body":"in revenue or whatever. Focus on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1735.29,"endTime":1738.11,"body":"your goal. What's the strategy?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1735.29,"endTime":1738.11,"body":"What's the outcome you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1738.11,"endTime":1741.41,"body":"looking for? And what takes you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1738.11,"endTime":1741.41,"body":"closest to that?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1741.8,"endTime":1745.43,"body":"And what other"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1741.8,"endTime":1745.43,"body":"challenges do you hear people"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1745.97,"endTime":1750.89,"body":"coming to you and saying, oh,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1745.97,"endTime":1750.89,"body":"gosh, I'm really stuck with"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1750.89,"endTime":1751.31,"body":"this."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1751.37,"endTime":1754.1,"body":"So I think the one we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1751.37,"endTime":1754.1,"body":"just described that kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1754.1,"endTime":1758.78,"body":"balance between tech and product"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1754.1,"endTime":1758.78,"body":"is probably the greatest one."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1759.05,"endTime":1762.44,"body":"The other challenge, obviously,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1759.05,"endTime":1762.44,"body":"is people the number trying to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1762.44,"endTime":1765.68,"body":"get more good people. And it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1762.44,"endTime":1765.68,"body":"something Rebecca, you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1765.71,"endTime":1769.94,"body":"obviously intimately close to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1765.71,"endTime":1769.94,"body":"just trying to find good tea."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1770.51,"endTime":1774.41,"body":"Because in the mantra I've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1770.51,"endTime":1774.41,"body":"always had is you hire for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1774.41,"endTime":1777.14,"body":"tomorrow. It's not about your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1774.41,"endTime":1777.14,"body":"tech skills today. You need"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1777.17,"endTime":1780.92,"body":"adaptable people, people are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1777.17,"endTime":1780.92,"body":"desperate to learn and grow with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1780.92,"endTime":1784.82,"body":"the organization. And one of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1780.92,"endTime":1784.82,"body":"biggest challenges at the moment"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1784.82,"endTime":1789.35,"body":"is a lack of people who have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1784.82,"endTime":1789.35,"body":"those kinds of skills, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1789.35,"endTime":1793.28,"body":"willing to grow with the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1789.35,"endTime":1793.28,"body":"organization. So yeah, it's an I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1793.28,"endTime":1795.68,"body":"know it's something we've seen"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1793.28,"endTime":1795.68,"body":"for years and years."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1796.16,"endTime":1799.97,"body":"Insufficient good tech people,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1796.16,"endTime":1799.97,"body":"but I think it's got more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1800.0,"endTime":1804.41,"body":"Critical over the last couple of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1800.0,"endTime":1804.41,"body":"years or so. And as I've moved"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1804.41,"endTime":1807.89,"body":"many is me having moved more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1804.41,"endTime":1807.89,"body":"into the product space. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1807.89,"endTime":1812.06,"body":"see this more. But the number of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1807.89,"endTime":1812.06,"body":"good product people on the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1812.06,"endTime":1817.55,"body":"market is really small. There's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1812.06,"endTime":1817.55,"body":"a lot of people, if you are CTOs"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1818.0,"endTime":1821.69,"body":"who suddenly saw the new term CP"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1818.0,"endTime":1821.69,"body":"to and just stuck a P in their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1821.69,"endTime":1824.48,"body":"LinkedIn profile, right? And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1821.69,"endTime":1824.48,"body":"they're not product people at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1824.48,"endTime":1829.37,"body":"all. So I work with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1824.48,"endTime":1829.37,"body":"organizations, and often we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1829.37,"endTime":1832.88,"body":"looking for good product people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1829.37,"endTime":1832.88,"body":"really hard. And I think"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1832.88,"endTime":1836.3,"body":"that, for me,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1832.88,"endTime":1836.3,"body":"when I'm helping companies put"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1836.3,"endTime":1841.7,"body":"together a product team. There,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1836.3,"endTime":1841.7,"body":"even the founders aren't always"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1841.7,"endTime":1845.45,"body":"sure of what kind of product"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1841.7,"endTime":1845.45,"body":"people they need, you know, your"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1845.78,"endTime":1848.42,"body":"product means so many different"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1845.78,"endTime":1848.42,"body":"things, is their product"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1848.42,"endTime":1852.23,"body":"strategy. Is it product"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1848.42,"endTime":1852.23,"body":"marketing? Is it your technical"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1852.23,"endTime":1855.41,"body":"product advice that they need?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1852.23,"endTime":1855.41,"body":"Is it Product Management? Is it"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1855.41,"endTime":1862.28,"body":"product ownership? And I don't"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1855.41,"endTime":1862.28,"body":"think that people are always"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1862.28,"endTime":1866.81,"body":"clear on how to identify and"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1862.28,"endTime":1866.81,"body":"assess what their actual"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1866.81,"endTime":1871.04,"body":"requirement is, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1866.81,"endTime":1871.04,"body":"certainly working back from the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1871.04,"endTime":1875.51,"body":"end result is a great place to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1871.04,"endTime":1875.51,"body":"start. And knowing what you need"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1875.51,"endTime":1879.47,"body":"someone to achieve, rather than"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1875.51,"endTime":1879.47,"body":"just what you think you need"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1880.07,"endTime":1884.75,"body":"would be my tip, for anyone"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1880.07,"endTime":1884.75,"body":"who's facing that dilemma. Just"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1884.75,"endTime":1885.08,"body":"know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1885.83,"endTime":1890.03,"body":"I think that's a great"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1885.83,"endTime":1890.03,"body":"tip, I really do. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1890.03,"endTime":1892.79,"body":"I've worked with you quite a bit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1890.03,"endTime":1892.79,"body":"in the past, Rebecca, and one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1892.79,"endTime":1896.87,"body":"things I really like is, so I've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1892.79,"endTime":1896.87,"body":"worked with some recruiters who"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1896.93,"endTime":1899.69,"body":"do not know the differences"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1896.93,"endTime":1899.69,"body":"between the different roles that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1899.69,"endTime":1902.87,"body":"you were just mentioning. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1899.69,"endTime":1902.87,"body":"it's apparent that they're about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1902.87,"endTime":1906.26,"body":"to try and hire me the wrong"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1902.87,"endTime":1906.26,"body":"type of person. I like working"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1906.26,"endTime":1909.35,"body":"with you, because you know this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1906.26,"endTime":1909.35,"body":"stuff, and you've dealt with it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1909.35,"endTime":1912.05,"body":"a lot. And it's very easy to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1909.35,"endTime":1912.05,"body":"have a conversation with you."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1912.71,"endTime":1916.34,"body":"But where I add value to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1912.71,"endTime":1916.34,"body":"organizations to sitting down"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1916.34,"endTime":1918.98,"body":"and thinking, what is the end"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1916.34,"endTime":1918.98,"body":"goal look like? What do we need"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1919.01,"endTime":1923.09,"body":"to deliver this? How many"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1919.01,"endTime":1923.09,"body":"product managers? Are we going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1923.09,"endTime":1926.45,"body":"to need a CPO? You know, how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1923.09,"endTime":1926.45,"body":"does technology fit into that?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1926.45,"endTime":1929.63,"body":"What is the text structure in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1926.45,"endTime":1929.63,"body":"the play, and then work with the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1929.63,"endTime":1931.73,"body":"recruitment partner to bring"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1929.63,"endTime":1931.73,"body":"those people into the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1931.73,"endTime":1932.51,"body":"organization."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1932.66,"endTime":1934.4,"body":"And I"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1932.66,"endTime":1934.4,"body":"certainly think that more"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1934.4,"endTime":1938.57,"body":"thoughtful approach can end up"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1934.4,"endTime":1938.57,"body":"saving companies a lot of time"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1939.14,"endTime":1943.43,"body":"and money. You know, and getting"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1939.14,"endTime":1943.43,"body":"something out there quickly can"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1943.43,"endTime":1945.35,"body":"be just as advantageous is doing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1945.56,"endTime":1948.17,"body":"your own. I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1945.56,"endTime":1948.17,"body":"thinking about this the other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1948.17,"endTime":1952.76,"body":"day record and by the time you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1948.17,"endTime":1952.76,"body":"go through CVS, brief a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1952.76,"endTime":1956.39,"body":"recruiter go through CVS,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1952.76,"endTime":1956.39,"body":"interview on board, whatever,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1956.42,"endTime":1960.26,"body":"get that person up speed, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1956.42,"endTime":1960.26,"body":"then that person is not fully"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1960.26,"endTime":1964.25,"body":"productive. Initially. It takes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1960.26,"endTime":1964.25,"body":"him maybe six months, but during"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1964.25,"endTime":1967.04,"body":"those six months, then asking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1964.25,"endTime":1967.04,"body":"maybe a couple of other people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1967.04,"endTime":1970.7,"body":"for help regularly, you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1967.04,"endTime":1970.7,"body":"losing one to one and a half"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1970.73,"endTime":1975.53,"body":"years worth of people time for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1970.73,"endTime":1975.53,"body":"each role, at least. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1975.53,"endTime":1980.06,"body":"therefore getting it right. And,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1975.53,"endTime":1980.06,"body":"you know, getting the right"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1980.06,"endTime":1984.5,"body":"person in is it's a false"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1980.06,"endTime":1984.5,"body":"economy to go cheap. I think."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1985.489,"endTime":1989.779,"body":"Definitely. I"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1985.489,"endTime":1989.779,"body":"think you're better to have,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1990.799,"endTime":1996.379,"body":"especially in an early stage,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1990.799,"endTime":1996.379,"body":"less time from people with more"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1996.379,"endTime":1999.649,"body":"experience. And you know, I"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1996.379,"endTime":1999.649,"body":"think, you know, obviously,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1999.679,"endTime":2002.649,"body":"that's not like the right"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":1999.679,"endTime":2002.649,"body":"solution is a company is growing"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2002.919,"endTime":2007.449,"body":"beyond their first few hires."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2002.919,"endTime":2007.449,"body":"But it, it makes all the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2007.449,"endTime":2009.519,"body":"difference if there's that solid"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2007.449,"endTime":2009.519,"body":"foundation there."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2009.88,"endTime":2013.03,"body":"Yep, great. And that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2009.88,"endTime":2013.03,"body":"in part, why do an idea and a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2013.03,"endTime":2016.87,"body":"fractional basis, sort of part"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2013.03,"endTime":2016.87,"body":"time basis with companies. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2017.08,"endTime":2021.16,"body":"they maybe don't need my skills"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2017.08,"endTime":2021.16,"body":"full time or, you know, they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2021.16,"endTime":2025.51,"body":"don't have a role big enough yet"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2021.16,"endTime":2025.51,"body":"enough money. So for me working"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2025.51,"endTime":2028.96,"body":"with them on a fractional basis"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2025.51,"endTime":2028.96,"body":"to help get them to where they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2028.96,"endTime":2033.73,"body":"need to be now, and then bring"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2028.96,"endTime":2033.73,"body":"in people, you know, maybe less"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2033.73,"endTime":2037.45,"body":"experienced, but maybe mentored"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2033.73,"endTime":2037.45,"body":"by me or whatever. So to take"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2037.45,"endTime":2039.37,"body":"them to the next stage works"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2037.45,"endTime":2039.37,"body":"really well."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2039.46,"endTime":2043.57,"body":"So another"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2039.46,"endTime":2043.57,"body":"thing that I'd love to speak to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2043.57,"endTime":2049.24,"body":"you about is what to do when"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2043.57,"endTime":2049.24,"body":"growth in a company is starting"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2049.24,"endTime":2053.95,"body":"to stall. I can see that"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2049.24,"endTime":2053.95,"body":"happening in a couple of areas."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2053.95,"endTime":2057.64,"body":"It's obviously it's, it's really"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2053.95,"endTime":2057.64,"body":"challenging. Its cost of"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2057.64,"endTime":2062.17,"body":"acquisitions increase for lots"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2057.64,"endTime":2062.17,"body":"of businesses. So there are"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2062.17,"endTime":2067.72,"body":"metrics that people can look to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2062.17,"endTime":2067.72,"body":"it, you know, but actually, from"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2067.72,"endTime":2072.58,"body":"the CPA to perspective, or your"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2067.72,"endTime":2072.58,"body":"perspectives, you know, as an"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2072.58,"endTime":2077.8,"body":"advisor, and board member in"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2072.58,"endTime":2077.8,"body":"some of these businesses, what"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2077.8,"endTime":2082.33,"body":"are the places that people"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2077.8,"endTime":2082.33,"body":"should be looking to, like, get"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2082.33,"endTime":2084.19,"body":"to the root of that problem?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2084.79,"endTime":2089.29,"body":"Yeah. So when I advise"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2084.79,"endTime":2089.29,"body":"boards or sit on boards, I go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2089.29,"endTime":2093.43,"body":"back to basics at this point."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2089.29,"endTime":2093.43,"body":"What is it that worked before"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2093.46,"endTime":2098.14,"body":"but it's not working now? Why,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2093.46,"endTime":2098.14,"body":"you know, if we build in good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2098.14,"endTime":2102.37,"body":"product that customers want"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2098.14,"endTime":2102.37,"body":"We're approaching the right"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2102.37,"endTime":2105.07,"body":"customers about it and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2102.37,"endTime":2105.07,"body":"presenting it in the right way,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2105.67,"endTime":2108.76,"body":"then we should be making sales."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2105.67,"endTime":2108.76,"body":"So something in that chain is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2108.76,"endTime":2112.84,"body":"broken. And going back to basics"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2108.76,"endTime":2112.84,"body":"and understanding, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2113.41,"endTime":2115.54,"body":"have we gone off the rails? Have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2113.41,"endTime":2115.54,"body":"we stopped listening to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2115.54,"endTime":2121.24,"body":"customers now building something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2115.54,"endTime":2121.24,"body":"they don't want? Or are we, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2121.24,"endTime":2123.7,"body":"know, you sometimes see"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2121.24,"endTime":2123.7,"body":"organizations taking a really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2123.7,"endTime":2127.87,"body":"well focused product, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2123.7,"endTime":2127.87,"body":"thinking, a sort of shotgun"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2127.87,"endTime":2131.05,"body":"approach of just sending it out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2127.87,"endTime":2131.05,"body":"to anybody will help scale their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2131.05,"endTime":2135.7,"body":"business, or, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2131.05,"endTime":2135.7,"body":"something. So like, just go back"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2135.7,"endTime":2140.05,"body":"to basics and say, speak to your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2135.7,"endTime":2140.05,"body":"customers, you know, the latest"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2140.05,"endTime":2144.82,"body":"version, if you're measuring,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2140.05,"endTime":2144.82,"body":"whether it be Pirate Metrics, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2144.82,"endTime":2148.78,"body":"heart metrics, or whatever it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2144.82,"endTime":2148.78,"body":"is, understanding how many"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2148.78,"endTime":2153.01,"body":"people using your product, what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2148.78,"endTime":2153.01,"body":"percentage of your user base are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2153.01,"endTime":2156.16,"body":"using the new feature you've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2153.01,"endTime":2156.16,"body":"just put out there? How often to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2156.16,"endTime":2160.66,"body":"be using, how frequently do they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2156.16,"endTime":2160.66,"body":"come back, and use that data to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2160.66,"endTime":2164.65,"body":"drive an understanding of what's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2160.66,"endTime":2164.65,"body":"happening to your product, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2164.65,"endTime":2166.39,"body":"then change your strategy"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2164.65,"endTime":2166.39,"body":"accordingly."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2167.44,"endTime":2170.53,"body":"Totally, and"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2167.44,"endTime":2170.53,"body":"that makes so much sense. But I"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2170.53,"endTime":2174.43,"body":"think it's it's really easy for"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2170.53,"endTime":2174.43,"body":"this to happen in the knee jerk"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2174.43,"endTime":2178.9,"body":"is quite often, oh, sales,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2174.43,"endTime":2178.9,"body":"marketing or growth are to blame"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2178.9,"endTime":2182.77,"body":"for growth, stalling, and you"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2178.9,"endTime":2182.77,"body":"know that that creates a bit of,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2182.8,"endTime":2185.62,"body":"there's always gonna be friction"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2182.8,"endTime":2185.62,"body":"in an organization around those"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2185.62,"endTime":2189.94,"body":"areas. But actually, being a lot"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2185.62,"endTime":2189.94,"body":"more analytical about the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2189.94,"endTime":2194.5,"body":"product and how it's being used,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2189.94,"endTime":2194.5,"body":"could save you a lot of money"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2194.77,"endTime":2200.02,"body":"and get to the root of the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2194.77,"endTime":2200.02,"body":"problem in a more effective way"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2200.02,"endTime":2201.1,"body":"is your message."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2201.37,"endTime":2204.82,"body":"Agree? Absolutely that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2201.37,"endTime":2204.82,"body":"so an a good product manager. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2204.82,"endTime":2208.9,"body":"a sales team go out and sell the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2204.82,"endTime":2208.9,"body":"product, you know, as is, is the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2208.9,"endTime":2211.36,"body":"perfect solution. So they don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2208.9,"endTime":2211.36,"body":"go out and try and sell a future"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2211.36,"endTime":2215.41,"body":"product or a product with extra"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2211.36,"endTime":2215.41,"body":"bits added on. So if we, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2215.41,"endTime":2218.35,"body":"sales team are doing that taking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2215.41,"endTime":2218.35,"body":"the standard product out to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2218.35,"endTime":2220.87,"body":"customers and trying to sell if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2218.35,"endTime":2220.87,"body":"it's not working, it's not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2220.87,"endTime":2223.78,"body":"bringing sales teams fault."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2220.87,"endTime":2223.78,"body":"There is something wrong with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2223.78,"endTime":2227.62,"body":"the product, or identification"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2223.78,"endTime":2227.62,"body":"of customers or something like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2227.62,"endTime":2232.84,"body":"that. But a good product manager"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2227.62,"endTime":2232.84,"body":"whose strategic well work out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2232.84,"endTime":2234.73,"body":"what is wrong, and then realign"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2232.84,"endTime":2234.73,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2234.94,"endTime":2237.91,"body":"Totally. So"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2234.94,"endTime":2237.91,"body":"one of the things that we"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2237.91,"endTime":2240.97,"body":"touched on earlier, and we're"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2237.91,"endTime":2240.97,"body":"talking about your experiences,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2241.0,"endTime":2247.39,"body":"you've been involved in five"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2241.0,"endTime":2247.39,"body":"exits. And that's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2247.39,"endTime":2251.89,"body":"experience in that space. And"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2247.39,"endTime":2251.89,"body":"something which you know, very"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2251.89,"endTime":2255.52,"body":"few people will have, like been"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2251.89,"endTime":2255.52,"body":"involved in so many businesses"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2255.55,"endTime":2259.87,"body":"that where there is an"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2255.55,"endTime":2259.87,"body":"acquisition. So I would like to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2259.87,"endTime":2264.07,"body":"know from you, but when should"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2259.87,"endTime":2264.07,"body":"companies think about preparing"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2264.07,"endTime":2264.76,"body":"to exit?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2264.82,"endTime":2269.05,"body":"So my simple answer to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2264.82,"endTime":2269.05,"body":"this is they shouldn't. Okay,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2269.11,"endTime":2271.84,"body":"and that's a slightly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2269.11,"endTime":2271.84,"body":"contradictory answer to what I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2271.84,"endTime":2275.62,"body":"about to say, don't get focused"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2271.84,"endTime":2275.62,"body":"on exit, get focused on building"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2275.62,"endTime":2279.07,"body":"your business building"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2275.62,"endTime":2279.07,"body":"repeatable product sales, etc."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2279.76,"endTime":2283.6,"body":"But put in place the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2279.76,"endTime":2283.6,"body":"foundation's the groundwork for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2283.6,"endTime":2288.1,"body":"an exit as soon as possible. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2283.6,"endTime":2288.1,"body":"make sure and I do a lot of work"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2288.1,"endTime":2293.89,"body":"with companies. I've done due"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2288.1,"endTime":2293.89,"body":"diligence, I've been asked a lot"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2293.89,"endTime":2297.4,"body":"of questions by people doing due"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2293.89,"endTime":2297.4,"body":"diligence. And I know what it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2297.4,"endTime":2301.39,"body":"looks like. And I know risks. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2297.4,"endTime":2301.39,"body":"I go into organizations, and are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2301.39,"endTime":2304.72,"body":"able to put an independent"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2301.39,"endTime":2304.72,"body":"perspective on things and say,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2305.17,"endTime":2308.77,"body":"as an acquirer or investor, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2305.17,"endTime":2308.77,"body":"risk over here, it's too high,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2308.8,"endTime":2311.41,"body":"you need to address that risk"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2308.8,"endTime":2311.41,"body":"over here is fine, don't worry"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2311.41,"endTime":2314.62,"body":"about that. So you can start"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2311.41,"endTime":2314.62,"body":"looking at those things because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2314.62,"endTime":2318.22,"body":"they're good for the business,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2314.62,"endTime":2318.22,"body":"and building the things that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2318.22,"endTime":2321.79,"body":"acquires or investors will look"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2318.22,"endTime":2321.79,"body":"for and dealing with those risks"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2321.88,"endTime":2325.93,"body":"early. Tip number one, don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2321.88,"endTime":2325.93,"body":"leave it till too late because a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2325.93,"endTime":2329.08,"body":"good DD team will spot you've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2325.93,"endTime":2329.08,"body":"tried to write the answer to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2329.08,"endTime":2332.14,"body":"their question and pretend it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2329.08,"endTime":2332.14,"body":"was written six months ago,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2332.35,"endTime":2335.98,"body":"they'll spot that straightaway."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2332.35,"endTime":2335.98,"body":"So don't think about exit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2335.98,"endTime":2339.43,"body":"because you'll get distracted"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2335.98,"endTime":2339.43,"body":"and stop doing the day job. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2339.43,"endTime":2343.51,"body":"do put in place the foundations"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2339.43,"endTime":2343.51,"body":"for a potential exit now,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2343.63,"endTime":2347.11,"body":"and just"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2343.63,"endTime":2347.11,"body":"keeping your like your filing"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2347.11,"endTime":2352.12,"body":"systems clear. And like really"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2347.11,"endTime":2352.12,"body":"basic stuff can help and having"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2352.45,"endTime":2357.1,"body":"basic governance policies and"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2352.45,"endTime":2357.1,"body":"procedures. Make sure that you"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2357.1,"endTime":2359.53,"body":"know where your contracts are,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2357.1,"endTime":2359.53,"body":"and that you have them all"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2359.53,"endTime":2360.46,"body":"signed. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2360.52,"endTime":2363.7,"body":"yeah, absolutely. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2360.52,"endTime":2363.7,"body":"build a data room now. Go do it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2363.7,"endTime":2368.14,"body":"now and populate it. A good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2363.7,"endTime":2368.14,"body":"chair will think about these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2368.14,"endTime":2370.21,"body":"governance frameworks think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2368.14,"endTime":2370.21,"body":"about good governance, which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2370.21,"endTime":2373.93,"body":"includes everything you just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2370.21,"endTime":2373.93,"body":"mentioned. And should the board"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2373.96,"endTime":2376.51,"body":"are doing those things because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2373.96,"endTime":2376.51,"body":"it's the right thing to do for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2376.51,"endTime":2379.42,"body":"the business. So going back to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2376.51,"endTime":2379.42,"body":"my earlier point, it's not about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2379.57,"endTime":2382.51,"body":"we're trying to create an exit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2379.57,"endTime":2382.51,"body":"so let's do this. It's about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2382.78,"endTime":2385.12,"body":"this is right for the business."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2382.78,"endTime":2385.12,"body":"So let's do it. And"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2385.15,"endTime":2388.24,"body":"you never know"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2385.15,"endTime":2388.24,"body":"when someone is going to contact"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2388.24,"endTime":2392.32,"body":"you with you know, an"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2388.24,"endTime":2392.32,"body":"opportunity. You just don't"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2392.32,"endTime":2396.31,"body":"know. Absolutely. You can always"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2392.32,"endTime":2396.31,"body":"manufacture these things and"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2396.34,"endTime":2399.34,"body":"then codes. This year we're"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2396.34,"endTime":2399.34,"body":"going to sell you want to make"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2399.34,"endTime":2403.3,"body":"yourself have just the best on"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2399.34,"endTime":2403.3,"body":"the market so that you are"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2403.3,"endTime":2405.94,"body":"snapped up and have more control"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2403.3,"endTime":2405.94,"body":"of those negotiations."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2406.18,"endTime":2408.52,"body":"Absolutely, you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2406.18,"endTime":2408.52,"body":"absolutely right. So because if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2408.52,"endTime":2412.06,"body":"you haven't done if you've left"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2408.52,"endTime":2412.06,"body":"risks open, what happens is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2412.09,"endTime":2414.7,"body":"people come along and they chip"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2412.09,"endTime":2414.7,"body":"the price, they certainly go,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2414.7,"endTime":2416.5,"body":"well, we weren't going to pay"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2414.7,"endTime":2416.5,"body":"this much. But we don't like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2416.5,"endTime":2420.01,"body":"this risk. So we're gonna knock"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2416.5,"endTime":2420.01,"body":"half a million off. So you want"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2420.01,"endTime":2424.84,"body":"to avoid that. But to your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2420.01,"endTime":2424.84,"body":"point, I've had two"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2426.1,"endTime":2429.46,"body":"conversations around a potential"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2426.1,"endTime":2429.46,"body":"acquisition, one of which was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2429.46,"endTime":2433.6,"body":"started with a LinkedIn message"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2429.46,"endTime":2433.6,"body":"to me. And the other which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2433.6,"endTime":2437.02,"body":"started with we went to demo the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2433.6,"endTime":2437.02,"body":"product to somebody in their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2437.02,"endTime":2440.71,"body":"office and have a cup of tea."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2437.02,"endTime":2440.71,"body":"And at the end is a great Are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2440.71,"endTime":2442.9,"body":"you thinking of being acquired,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2440.71,"endTime":2442.9,"body":"because we might like to talk"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2442.9,"endTime":2447.13,"body":"about that, you know, both of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2442.9,"endTime":2447.13,"body":"them were out of the blue. You"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2447.13,"endTime":2450.13,"body":"know, so you never know where"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2447.13,"endTime":2450.13,"body":"it's going to come from. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2450.13,"endTime":2452.53,"body":"yeah, if you've done all the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2450.13,"endTime":2452.53,"body":"good staff, you've got good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2452.53,"endTime":2455.92,"body":"governance, you've got a chair"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2452.53,"endTime":2455.92,"body":"or non execs helping put that in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2455.92,"endTime":2460.87,"body":"place. And then you've got your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2455.92,"endTime":2460.87,"body":"data room with all that ready,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2461.08,"endTime":2464.26,"body":"you've looked at the big risks"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2461.08,"endTime":2464.26,"body":"to avoid people trying to cut"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2464.26,"endTime":2467.89,"body":"the price back, then when it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2464.26,"endTime":2467.89,"body":"happens, and it will happen, if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2467.89,"endTime":2469.72,"body":"you're a good company, you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2467.89,"endTime":2469.72,"body":"ready."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2469.87,"endTime":2472.69,"body":"That's really"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2469.87,"endTime":2472.69,"body":"valuable advice. And I think"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2472.69,"endTime":2476.71,"body":"that by putting those things in"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2472.69,"endTime":2476.71,"body":"early on, the added benefits"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2476.74,"endTime":2480.88,"body":"are, it's far it's a lot less"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2476.74,"endTime":2480.88,"body":"stressful when things do happen."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2481.21,"endTime":2485.35,"body":"And a lot of what you need to do"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2481.21,"endTime":2485.35,"body":"to prepare for an exit is going"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2485.35,"endTime":2487.36,"body":"to be similar to what you need"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2485.35,"endTime":2487.36,"body":"to prepare for taking on"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2487.36,"endTime":2492.07,"body":"investment. So whatever comes"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2487.36,"endTime":2492.07,"body":"first, you're putting yourself"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2492.1,"endTime":2493.66,"body":"in place for growth,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2493.69,"endTime":2498.4,"body":"absolutely 100%. One of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2493.69,"endTime":2498.4,"body":"the roles I did as an advisor,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2498.52,"endTime":2501.4,"body":"again, doing this analysis of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2498.52,"endTime":2501.4,"body":"risk within the organization"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2501.43,"endTime":2505.33,"body":"from a acquiring investors"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2501.43,"endTime":2505.33,"body":"perspective, we did all that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2505.33,"endTime":2507.61,"body":"over six months, and we built it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2505.33,"endTime":2507.61,"body":"because it was the right thing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2507.61,"endTime":2511.9,"body":"for the business. And then when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2507.61,"endTime":2511.9,"body":"acquisition when a due diligence"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2511.9,"endTime":2516.28,"body":"team did come along as an easy"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2511.9,"endTime":2516.28,"body":"conversation, because we knew"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2516.64,"endTime":2520.57,"body":"what they would consider risk."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2516.64,"endTime":2520.57,"body":"And we'd already dealt with that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2520.6,"endTime":2523.6,"body":"appropriately. So actually, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2520.6,"endTime":2523.6,"body":"was a straightforward"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2523.6,"endTime":2524.32,"body":"conversation."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2524.5,"endTime":2531.34,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2524.5,"endTime":2531.34,"body":"And in terms of your, like,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2531.37,"endTime":2534.73,"body":"advice for people just now,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2531.37,"endTime":2534.73,"body":"you've been involved in so many"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2534.73,"endTime":2540.73,"body":"companies, your great successes,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2534.73,"endTime":2540.73,"body":"and you've been on the board."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2541.24,"endTime":2545.86,"body":"From that perspective? What"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2541.24,"endTime":2545.86,"body":"qualities are you seeing in the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2545.86,"endTime":2548.89,"body":"leadership teams that have"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2545.86,"endTime":2548.89,"body":"successfully exited? What is it"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2548.89,"endTime":2552.64,"body":"about those individuals that's"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2548.89,"endTime":2552.64,"body":"helped propel them to that"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2552.64,"endTime":2553.06,"body":"place,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2553.81,"endTime":2558.25,"body":"humility, and openness"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2553.81,"endTime":2558.25,"body":"to learning, you know, learn as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2558.25,"endTime":2563.05,"body":"much as possible, as quickly as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2558.25,"endTime":2563.05,"body":"possible, adaptable, and they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2563.05,"endTime":2566.53,"body":"listen. And actually, a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2563.05,"endTime":2566.53,"body":"the other skills they can make"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2566.53,"endTime":2569.8,"body":"up for if they've got those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2566.53,"endTime":2569.8,"body":"things. The worst leadership"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2569.8,"endTime":2573.22,"body":"teams are the ones who have got"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2569.8,"endTime":2573.22,"body":"closed days that don't want to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2573.22,"endTime":2578.23,"body":"hear input from other people, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2573.22,"endTime":2578.23,"body":"else, they're the seasoned"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2578.23,"endTime":2580.93,"body":"professionals who sit this out,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2578.23,"endTime":2580.93,"body":"I don't need to do this, I've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2580.93,"endTime":2585.73,"body":"done this for enough years, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2580.93,"endTime":2585.73,"body":"don't need to do that. Or else,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2585.76,"endTime":2590.08,"body":"the people who really don't have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2585.76,"endTime":2590.08,"body":"the appetite, they're not, they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2590.08,"endTime":2592.75,"body":"don't have the appetite for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2590.08,"endTime":2592.75,"body":"learning to learn new things, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2592.9,"endTime":2598.69,"body":"try new things. So I think if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2592.9,"endTime":2598.69,"body":"you've got those, and if you use"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2598.69,"endTime":2603.55,"body":"values to hire, and so if your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2598.69,"endTime":2603.55,"body":"values are around humility,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2603.58,"endTime":2610.54,"body":"around openness, around a lack"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2603.58,"endTime":2610.54,"body":"of ego around a want or thirst"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2610.57,"endTime":2615.61,"body":"for learning, and you hire those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2610.57,"endTime":2615.61,"body":"people at board level, your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2615.61,"endTime":2617.11,"body":"organization will do a lot"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2615.61,"endTime":2617.11,"body":"better."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2617.53,"endTime":2621.97,"body":"That's great."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2617.53,"endTime":2621.97,"body":"So really looking for that, I"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2621.97,"endTime":2625.57,"body":"guess, open openness, which is"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2621.97,"endTime":2625.57,"body":"going to make it easier for"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2625.57,"endTime":2629.05,"body":"people to I think it's easier to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2625.57,"endTime":2629.05,"body":"empower a team, if you say I"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2629.05,"endTime":2632.71,"body":"don't have the answers is up to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2629.05,"endTime":2632.71,"body":"you sometimes. And people get"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2632.71,"endTime":2636.19,"body":"more excited when they're given"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2632.71,"endTime":2636.19,"body":"that level of trust, and"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2636.19,"endTime":2641.23,"body":"autonomy, like they're far more"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2636.19,"endTime":2641.23,"body":"likely to feel valued, as well."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2641.47,"endTime":2647.35,"body":"So I guess if those tools enable"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2641.47,"endTime":2647.35,"body":"successful delegation at the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2647.35,"endTime":2653.92,"body":"planet, like humility is so"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2647.35,"endTime":2653.92,"body":"important, and I see people like"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2653.92,"endTime":2659.89,"body":"talk about being humble, and how"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2653.92,"endTime":2659.89,"body":"important it is. But I think"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2659.89,"endTime":2667.18,"body":"that it's hard to assess"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2659.89,"endTime":2667.18,"body":"humility, because it's, you"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2667.18,"endTime":2670.0,"body":"know, what you're meant to see."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2667.18,"endTime":2670.0,"body":"There's so much information out"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2670.0,"endTime":2676.93,"body":"there about an hour. And people"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2670.0,"endTime":2676.93,"body":"are sometimes a little bit hard."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2676.99,"endTime":2680.8,"body":"Sometimes the level of humility"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2676.99,"endTime":2680.8,"body":"they display based on their"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2680.8,"endTime":2684.37,"body":"experience is impacted by the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2680.8,"endTime":2684.37,"body":"environment that they're"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2684.37,"endTime":2688.81,"body":"operating in. You know, I can"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2684.37,"endTime":2688.81,"body":"think of times in places where"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2689.29,"endTime":2695.89,"body":"it's not you've needed to have a"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2689.29,"endTime":2695.89,"body":"good degree of bravado and, you"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2695.89,"endTime":2699.97,"body":"know, a sense of we can do"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2695.89,"endTime":2699.97,"body":"anything, and we know the answer"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2700.0,"endTime":2705.37,"body":"serves in order to just create a"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2700.0,"endTime":2705.37,"body":"bit of steel and momentum. So"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2705.85,"endTime":2711.46,"body":"how would have you any tips for"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2705.85,"endTime":2711.46,"body":"trying to identify humility? I"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2711.46,"endTime":2713.71,"body":"know I'm putting you on the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2711.46,"endTime":2713.71,"body":"spot. And it's a tricky one."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2713.74,"endTime":2717.79,"body":"Wow, that is a really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2713.74,"endTime":2717.79,"body":"hard one. I'm going to answer a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2717.79,"endTime":2720.49,"body":"slightly different questions,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2717.79,"endTime":2720.49,"body":"give myself 30 seconds thought,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2720.73,"endTime":2724.42,"body":"think. So, two of the greatest"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2720.73,"endTime":2724.42,"body":"skills, a leader can have a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2724.42,"endTime":2728.65,"body":"vulnerability and humility. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2724.42,"endTime":2728.65,"body":"I've seen that leaders and I can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2728.65,"endTime":2731.41,"body":"think of one chief exec, who had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2728.65,"endTime":2731.41,"body":"a complete inability to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2731.41,"endTime":2734.8,"body":"vulnerable, they always had to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2731.41,"endTime":2734.8,"body":"have the answer. And it's had a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2734.8,"endTime":2737.44,"body":"culture within the leadership"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2734.8,"endTime":2737.44,"body":"team that was really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2737.44,"endTime":2740.47,"body":"challenging, because nobody was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2737.44,"endTime":2740.47,"body":"able to make a mistake at that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2740.47,"endTime":2744.04,"body":"point. You know, you the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2740.47,"endTime":2744.04,"body":"experimentation culture went out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2744.04,"endTime":2747.43,"body":"the window. So I think humility"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2744.04,"endTime":2747.43,"body":"and vulnerability to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2747.43,"endTime":2752.08,"body":"greatest and most underrated"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2747.43,"endTime":2752.08,"body":"skills in a leader. How do you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2752.08,"endTime":2757.96,"body":"assess for humility and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2752.08,"endTime":2757.96,"body":"vulnerability? I don't I don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2757.96,"endTime":2761.86,"body":"know. And I think if I did no"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2757.96,"endTime":2761.86,"body":"bad answer, I'd probably make a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2761.86,"endTime":2765.31,"body":"million pounds. But I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2761.86,"endTime":2765.31,"body":"there is a chemistry thing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2765.31,"endTime":2770.08,"body":"there. And you can do the sort"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2765.31,"endTime":2770.08,"body":"of various interview techniques"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2770.08,"endTime":2774.4,"body":"to try and uncover that. But I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2770.08,"endTime":2774.4,"body":"think you just get a sense from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2774.4,"endTime":2779.05,"body":"somebody, you know, if you're an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2774.4,"endTime":2779.05,"body":"experienced, interfere. And this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2779.05,"endTime":2782.74,"body":"is where I've used your skills,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2779.05,"endTime":2782.74,"body":"Rebecca in the past to help"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2782.77,"endTime":2786.01,"body":"interview because you're usually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2782.77,"endTime":2786.01,"body":"experienced in this space, I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2786.01,"endTime":2789.49,"body":"just trying to uncover do we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2786.01,"endTime":2789.49,"body":"really think this person is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2789.49,"endTime":2794.29,"body":"authentically humble and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2789.49,"endTime":2794.29,"body":"vulnerable? Or is it just, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2794.29,"endTime":2795.67,"body":"know, a screen they're putting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2794.29,"endTime":2795.67,"body":"up?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2796.99,"endTime":2800.41,"body":"And I would"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2796.99,"endTime":2800.41,"body":"like, you know, just listening"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2800.41,"endTime":2803.56,"body":"to there is maybe maybe think of"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2800.41,"endTime":2803.56,"body":"two things that you could do and"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2803.56,"endTime":2807.16,"body":"that they're not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2803.56,"endTime":2807.16,"body":"fully recruitment focus, but"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2807.16,"endTime":2809.44,"body":"they should be part of your"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2807.16,"endTime":2809.44,"body":"process and things you're"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2809.44,"endTime":2815.35,"body":"considering. The first obvious"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2809.44,"endTime":2815.35,"body":"one is referencing does it match"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2815.35,"endTime":2822.64,"body":"up? And I think that it's, for a"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2815.35,"endTime":2822.64,"body":"lot of companies. They're quite"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2822.64,"endTime":2829.18,"body":"happy just to a standard look"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2822.64,"endTime":2829.18,"body":"for Joe Bloggs worked here from"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2829.3,"endTime":2834.16,"body":"first January 2020, until"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2829.3,"endTime":2834.16,"body":"whatever date in the future, and"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2834.16,"endTime":2837.13,"body":"that's all you're given. And"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2834.16,"endTime":2837.13,"body":"there's reasons why companies"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2837.13,"endTime":2841.63,"body":"feel that that's all they can"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2837.13,"endTime":2841.63,"body":"provide. But I do think that"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2842.83,"endTime":2846.58,"body":"we've kind of lost a lot of"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2842.83,"endTime":2846.58,"body":"insight, and even just like how"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2846.58,"endTime":2850.09,"body":"to get the best out of our new"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2846.58,"endTime":2850.09,"body":"hires. By dropping the ball with"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2850.09,"endTime":2853.96,"body":"referencing in general, I think"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2850.09,"endTime":2853.96,"body":"that there is a way to take a"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2853.96,"endTime":2858.13,"body":"good reference and to get"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2853.96,"endTime":2858.13,"body":"somebody to tell you informally,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2858.52,"endTime":2862.18,"body":"and for humility, when you were"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2858.52,"endTime":2862.18,"body":"talking about it, the you know"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2862.18,"endTime":2865.33,"body":"that, you know, being able to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2862.18,"endTime":2865.33,"body":"say I don't have all the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2865.33,"endTime":2871.84,"body":"answers, and I might be wrong."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2865.33,"endTime":2871.84,"body":"Those are really challenging for"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2871.84,"endTime":2876.79,"body":"companies. If you have no"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2871.84,"endTime":2876.79,"body":"humility in your leadership"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2876.79,"endTime":2880.81,"body":"team, and people think they know"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2876.79,"endTime":2880.81,"body":"everything, hopefully it's not"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2880.81,"endTime":2884.53,"body":"the case. But if you have that,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2880.81,"endTime":2884.53,"body":"that tends to seep through out"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2884.53,"endTime":2887.89,"body":"your organization, and that"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2884.53,"endTime":2887.89,"body":"culture goes all the way down to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2887.89,"endTime":2892.96,"body":"the bottom. So maybe a way to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2887.89,"endTime":2892.96,"body":"assess humility, they could"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2892.96,"endTime":2897.28,"body":"think more about would be how to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2892.96,"endTime":2897.28,"body":"find out what they think the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2897.28,"endTime":2900.82,"body":"cultural challenges are. And"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2897.28,"endTime":2900.82,"body":"when people have had challenges"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2901.12,"endTime":2905.5,"body":"of people who work for them, not"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2901.12,"endTime":2905.5,"body":"demonstrating humility, because"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2905.5,"endTime":2906.76,"body":"that would be indicative,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2906.91,"endTime":2910.42,"body":"I think is a good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2906.91,"endTime":2910.42,"body":"approach. I'll give you a very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2910.42,"endTime":2915.28,"body":"funny laughing It's funny story"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2910.42,"endTime":2915.28,"body":"of humility. So we were asking a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2915.28,"endTime":2917.77,"body":"candidate at once about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2915.28,"endTime":2917.77,"body":"humility. It's quite a senior"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2917.77,"endTime":2924.13,"body":"role in an organization. In part"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2917.77,"endTime":2924.13,"body":"because I had to rush there and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2924.13,"endTime":2926.77,"body":"Miss lunch. And in part because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2924.13,"endTime":2926.77,"body":"I was just being nice. I brought"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2926.77,"endTime":2929.5,"body":"some cakes with me. So we had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2926.77,"endTime":2929.5,"body":"some cakes in the middle of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2929.5,"endTime":2931.84,"body":"table, some muffins and stuff"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2929.5,"endTime":2931.84,"body":"because I was passing a coffee"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2931.84,"endTime":2935.26,"body":"shop, and I wanted some cake. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2931.84,"endTime":2935.26,"body":"we had this, then this person"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2935.26,"endTime":2937.78,"body":"had spent half an hour"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2935.26,"endTime":2937.78,"body":"explaining why they were humble,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2937.99,"endTime":2939.91,"body":"and part of the team and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2937.99,"endTime":2939.91,"body":"although they were going in at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2939.91,"endTime":2943.51,"body":"sea level, that actually, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2939.91,"endTime":2943.51,"body":"know, they're really a normal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2943.51,"endTime":2948.1,"body":"person. And then they stood up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2943.51,"endTime":2948.1,"body":"on the way out, and I was about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2948.1,"endTime":2950.98,"body":"to grab all this stuff and put"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2948.1,"endTime":2950.98,"body":"it in the bin or take it with me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2950.98,"endTime":2954.76,"body":"or put it in the kitchen or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2950.98,"endTime":2954.76,"body":"whatever. The surgeon said, A"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2954.76,"endTime":2959.41,"body":"will somebody tidy up after us"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2954.76,"endTime":2959.41,"body":"in this room. And I can't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2959.41,"endTime":2962.62,"body":"believe you've just explained to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2959.41,"endTime":2962.62,"body":"me how humble you are how you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2962.62,"endTime":2966.49,"body":"know, an inch on the ground yard"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2962.62,"endTime":2966.49,"body":"for your expecting. And he also"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2966.49,"endTime":2969.22,"body":"was trying to explain how he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2966.49,"endTime":2969.22,"body":"understood startup culture, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2969.25,"endTime":2972.25,"body":"everyone has to get her hands"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2969.25,"endTime":2972.25,"body":"dirty. And then he stood up and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2972.25,"endTime":2975.04,"body":"was expecting the team to come"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2972.25,"endTime":2975.04,"body":"and tidy up after him. I'm just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2975.04,"endTime":2977.32,"body":"like, okay, that blew for me."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2977.62,"endTime":2981.46,"body":"That's a great"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2977.62,"endTime":2981.46,"body":"story. And yeah, so other things"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2981.46,"endTime":2985.18,"body":"we could do to add to the list"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2981.46,"endTime":2985.18,"body":"of assessing humility is, is"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2985.18,"endTime":2987.67,"body":"someone willing to tidy up after"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":2985.18,"endTime":2987.67,"body":"themselves?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2988.36,"endTime":2991.54,"body":"Exactly. You know, I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2988.36,"endTime":2991.54,"body":"a board member advisor and the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2991.54,"endTime":2995.47,"body":"first thing I did was I'll tidy"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2991.54,"endTime":2995.47,"body":"up this and why not? You know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2995.47,"endTime":2999.79,"body":"it's it's, that's, again, part"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2995.47,"endTime":2999.79,"body":"of it. Gather, it talks about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2999.88,"endTime":3002.49,"body":"it. I'm vulnerability and saying"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2999.88,"endTime":3002.49,"body":"you don't know the answer. It's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3002.49,"endTime":3006.24,"body":"one of the most motivating"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3002.49,"endTime":3006.24,"body":"things for a leader says, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3006.24,"endTime":3009.27,"body":"don't know, I don't have that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3006.24,"endTime":3009.27,"body":"answer. What do you think? How"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3009.27,"endTime":3011.91,"body":"could you, you know, can you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3009.27,"endTime":3011.91,"body":"give me some ideas to help me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3011.91,"endTime":3016.35,"body":"solve that problem. And if you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3011.91,"endTime":3016.35,"body":"look at Dan Pink motivation, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3016.35,"endTime":3021.36,"body":"autonomy, mastery and purpose,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3016.35,"endTime":3021.36,"body":"if somebody feels that they have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3021.36,"endTime":3024.18,"body":"autonomy, and being asked to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3021.36,"endTime":3024.18,"body":"solve problems, if they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3024.18,"endTime":3027.93,"body":"filtered, they're getting better"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3024.18,"endTime":3027.93,"body":"by trying to solve hard problems"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3027.96,"endTime":3031.05,"body":"and a purpose, you know, around"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3027.96,"endTime":3031.05,"body":"the organization and helping the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3031.05,"endTime":3034.53,"body":"leadership team and they have a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3031.05,"endTime":3034.53,"body":"personal purpose. That's hugely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3034.53,"endTime":3039.33,"body":"motivating. So it's a technique."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3034.53,"endTime":3039.33,"body":"I think, I wish more leaders"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3039.33,"endTime":3042.3,"body":"would use I don't know, what do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3039.33,"endTime":3042.3,"body":"you think, help, you know, can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3042.3,"endTime":3044.55,"body":"you come up with anything to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3042.3,"endTime":3044.55,"body":"help you solve this problem?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3044.79,"endTime":3048.63,"body":"Great advice."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3044.79,"endTime":3048.63,"body":"So I'm sure that people will be"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3048.63,"endTime":3052.38,"body":"thinking a lot more about how"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3048.63,"endTime":3052.38,"body":"humble they are, or they really"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3052.44,"endTime":3057.69,"body":"am demonstrating that behavior."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3052.44,"endTime":3057.69,"body":"And we're, what is the kind of"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3057.69,"endTime":3060.99,"body":"like level of humility within"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3057.69,"endTime":3060.99,"body":"their organization? Do they need"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3060.99,"endTime":3064.59,"body":"to be thinking about that more"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3060.99,"endTime":3064.59,"body":"holistically? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3064.8,"endTime":3067.02,"body":"absolutely. Well, I'd"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3064.8,"endTime":3067.02,"body":"say I have six. I think, as I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3067.02,"endTime":3071.43,"body":"say, leadership, many leadership"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3067.02,"endTime":3071.43,"body":"teams would value would get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3071.43,"endTime":3074.91,"body":"value from being a little more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3071.43,"endTime":3074.91,"body":"vulnerable and a little more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3075.09,"endTime":3075.63,"body":"humble."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3075.93,"endTime":3080.31,"body":"Totally. Well,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3075.93,"endTime":3080.31,"body":"Matt, thanks so much for your"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3080.31,"endTime":3084.84,"body":"insights has been truly"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3080.31,"endTime":3084.84,"body":"fascinating and great to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3084.87,"endTime":3090.33,"body":"reconnect with you and find out"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3084.87,"endTime":3090.33,"body":"more about your work as a CPA to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3090.45,"endTime":3095.25,"body":"and how you're helping all these"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3090.45,"endTime":3095.25,"body":"companies scale and exit. It's"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3095.25,"endTime":3096.63,"body":"been really insightful."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3096.72,"endTime":3098.82,"body":"I've really enjoyed the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3096.72,"endTime":3098.82,"body":"conversation. And thank you for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3098.82,"endTime":3100.98,"body":"the questions. And it's been a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3098.82,"endTime":3100.98,"body":"really interesting chat,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3100.98,"endTime":3102.15,"body":"Rebecca, so thank you."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3102.18,"endTime":3104.67,"body":"Well, thanks"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3102.18,"endTime":3104.67,"body":"for joining us today. If you"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3104.67,"endTime":3108.06,"body":"would like to get in touch with"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3104.67,"endTime":3108.06,"body":"myself, our Matt, our details"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3108.06,"endTime":3113.31,"body":"are down below in the contact"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3108.06,"endTime":3113.31,"body":"information. Thanks for"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3113.31,"endTime":3116.1,"body":"listening to the Listen"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3113.31,"endTime":3116.1,"body":"perspective. I'm Rebecca"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3116.1,"endTime":3119.94,"body":"Hastings, founder and director"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3116.1,"endTime":3119.94,"body":"at the Lucent group, a tech"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3119.94,"endTime":3123.45,"body":"sector executive search and"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3119.94,"endTime":3123.45,"body":"talent consultancy. If you"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3123.45,"endTime":3127.05,"body":"enjoyed this episode, please"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3123.45,"endTime":3127.05,"body":"subscribe, share it with others,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3127.17,"endTime":3131.1,"body":"post about it on social media or"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3127.17,"endTime":3131.1,"body":"leave a rating and review. If"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3131.1,"endTime":3135.03,"body":"you're a company looking to hire"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3131.1,"endTime":3135.03,"body":"top technology leaders, or you'd"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3135.03,"endTime":3137.88,"body":"like to discuss your next move,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3135.03,"endTime":3137.88,"body":"please reach out to me on"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3137.88,"endTime":3142.59,"body":"LinkedIn or send me an email to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3137.88,"endTime":3142.59,"body":"Rebecca at the Listen group at"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Turnbull","startTime":3142.59,"endTime":3143.73,"body":"dog co.uk"}]}