From “figuring it out” to letting the body lead- LTAP® Level 1 alumni interview with Jillian Egan

You don’t need more tools.
You need a way to know when and where to use them.
And when you finally stop trying to figure it all out…
That’s when everything starts to click.

In this bonus episode of the Unreal Results Podcast, Anna sits down with LTAP® Level 1 alum Jillian Egan, a massage therapist, Pilates instructor, and movement practitioner based in Los Angeles.

Jillian shares her evolution from traditional massage therapy into a more integrated, whole-organism approach, and how discovering LTAP® completely shifted how she assesses, treats, and understands the human body. With a background in dance, movement, and manual therapy, she had already built a strong foundation but was still missing a clear system to guide where to start treatment and why.

This conversation explores what happens when you stop chasing symptoms and start listening to the body.

They dive into:
- Why having more techniques isn’t the problem and what actually is
- How LTAP® gave Jillian a clear, repeatable assessment to guide treatment
- Integrating the nervous system and viscera into manual therapy and movement work
- The shift from “figuring it out” to letting the body lead
-Why results should change quickly—and what it means when they don’t
- Using clinical patterns to identify when something deeper (or medical) is going on
- How this work improves both patient outcomes and practitioner sustainability

Jillian also shares powerful clinical examples—from resolving shoulder pain through visceral work to identifying cases that required medical referral—highlighting how this approach leads to both better results and better decision-making.

Beyond technique, this episode speaks to something deeper: the personal shift that happens when you let go of needing to be the expert and instead become someone who truly listens.

Resources & Links

Learn more about LTAP® Level 1 (Spring Cohort)
Connect with Jillian Egan 

Learn the assessment protocol that shows you exactly where to start treatment. Get better outcomes in fewer sessions (often less than 3–5). Join the Spring 2026 cohort

Stop guessing. Stop chasing symptoms.

The LTAP® is the catalyst that shifts you from a traditional biomechanical model to a whole-organism paradigm,  integrating the nervous system and viscera into every plan of care.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 3:39

Hello, hello, and welcome to another bonus episode of the Unreal Results Podcast. Got another LTAP alumnus interview for you. My girl Gillian Egan, uh massage therapist and Pilates instructor up in the LA area. And uh she joins us today to talk about her um journey diving in, like fully diving in to learning the LTAP. Um started in the end of 2024, and just anywhere she's at now, like it is like I love I I speak to it. I it's just been so cool to watch her integrate this into her work with her clients um to be open to see what it did for her and and and how she had to like adapt and change her practice and response to the results she was getting. Uh, it's just super inspiring. So I'm I'm really stoked to uh bring this interview to you. Again, it was a um Facebook live we did today outside uh the uh private family Facebook group, uh, but I wanted to be able to uh give it to everyone to hear because um yeah it was a great conversation and uh I did so can't wait for you to listen. Enjoy see the comments and we're live. Um welcome. Here we are in the uh old Facebook group for the missing link. Um I'm bringing in another uh LTAP alumni, alumnus, Miss Gillian Egan. Jillian is a massage therapist and Pilates instructor up in the LA area. And uh welcome, my friend.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

Hello, thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

You're welcome. Um so exciting. Uh we've been new meaning to do this since last uh season, last fall, and um here we are finally.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

Yeah, I know, and so much has grown since then. So this is actually better.

SPEAKER_01 5:55

Yeah, this is good. I'm excited. I'm excited to share your story with everybody and also just check in because it's been a while since we talked. So um, and then too, like this will also go on the podcast, so um, it'll live forever, which now I'm like, oh my god, I gotta fix my hair.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

No, that's I was like, I should probably make sure that I'm not a mess.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

Uh you look great, and uh, I'm sure I look fine too. Um, you do. One time I was with one of my athletes, uh Devin, years back. We were taking a photo, and I was like, Do you want to check it? See if it looks good. He's like, it it looks how I look. Like, I can't change how I look. That is me. And I was like, Wow, what a boy perspective! Yeah, right. And I was like, No, every girl wants to check and make sure they look good. But I'm like, you actually, he's right. Like, however I look is how I look. Like it is what it is, yeah. It is what it is, and I was like, I appreciate that. Yeah. So, anyways, um, yeah, uh, why don't you go ahead and like introduce yourself a little bit and like tell people, like um, first off, like, yeah, how you work, because I know that you know it's it is definitely it's not like your traditional massage therapist and like your traditional population. So um give us a little bit of background about like who you are, what you do.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

Sure. So yeah, um, I started out as a traditional massage therapist. I went to school that had a focus on medical massage therapy, or like, well, it was called like Russian medical massage or sports massage therapy, and that's just because the people who had developed the program were like Russian and Ukrainian, so they had sort of a more uh medical neuromuscular therapy-like background. Um, and then after that, I like kept learning. I did a Pilates training with Polestar. Um, my background as a mover is through ballet and contemporary dance, um, and I've been doing that since I'm a little kid. Um, and I had some somewhat professional experience dancing in New York and and uh LA. Um but I actually worked professionally as a graphic designer before any of the manual therapy stuff, and I just got really bored and tired like sitting at a desk and being in an office, and um I was always really interested in the body. So um, because of my dance and and also did a yoga teacher training, so all of that background um always made me really interested in the body and like um injuries and how to heal and how to avoid them, and um, I had some pretty amazing experiences with um body workers and PTs in New York, and it kind of inspired me. And so, like when I moved out to LA, I was like, hmm, I wonder if I should go into that. And so I I studied massage therapy, and then um working as a massage therapist, you realize really quickly like how tiring it is, and like how tough it is on your body, and so I was like, there has to be strategies to be more efficient as a practitioner, so I'm not like overgiving every session and like pretty dead after after a day, so um, and then you know, I'm hypermobile, I have hypermobile joints and like hands and wrists and stuff, so I just was like, hmm, I want to do this career for a long time, so how can I add to it so that I can do that for a long time? And like that's how I sort of started going down different rabbit holes, and um I also started working with um the dancers of Alvinale, um, and that has been really amazing, and also has like inspired me because a lot of the PTs there are IPA trained, so they like would introduce me to different things, and so I was like, okay, I want to like expand what I know. And then um and then I started noticing certain clients not getting better, or like having a lot of repeating patterns, or like it's like you know, how many times do you like dig into a shoulder and then they come back and they're like, Well, it's stuck again, and you're like, that's weird. So I started getting more interested in the viscera because the second medical massage textbook that they teach through my um school's program is is visceral based. And so I was like, Oh, I really would love to learn what that is, and so I started like looking around online and like following different things, and I think somehow I found your podcast and your Instagram, and then so through all of that, I was like, Yes, this is what I want to hear, and so I was listening to your podcast a lot, and I was like, Wow, yeah, we really think similarly, and also like this is an amazing approach to the body, and so that's how I found the LTAP, and then I was like, This is what I need because I didn't really have a good assessment. I did a lot of like orthopedic type assessments that a lot of PTs have taught me, but I didn't really have like a solid um assessment that really told me what was going on, and I could it was kind of cookie-cutter in a way that was like, Well, it was about movement patterns, or about like this shoulder is low and this uh hip is high, but it didn't really give me a picture as to like maybe what was driving that or why, and so I would unwind all of that and then everything would just come right back, so yeah. So that's kind of like how I landed in the in the LTAP world. Um yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:53

So you're looking for like an assessment of figuring out where to like direct your treatment or like a bigger picture than the movements, and then also it was a way for you to pull in the visceral and the nervous system stuff too that you had been intrigued with, but not necessarily like trained in.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, um, because a lot of the movement pattern stuff was was learned um through Polestar, uh, because they're really, really good at teaching that and teaching kinesiology. Um and everyone who wrote that program is also like an orthopedist and PT, but um I could just tell like with certain clients, like other stuff was happening, and um that there was probably organ stuff happening, or if they had like a history of it, you know, a heart attack or stuff internally that it might be showing up in their body, but I didn't know how to find it. And that I thought was kind of important to know. Um so that's how come I started looking into it because I was like, well, what about what about the organs? Like you know, and if you study any kind of eastern medicine, um, which they do teach you in massage school, and I've been like, you know, interested, and I like have been around acupuncturists throughout my career so far, sharing space with them, and now I'm about to share space with another one again. So there's always that like perspective in my like periphery, and so that always encompasses the whole body and um and the organ systems and the organs, and so that has always piqued my interest, and yeah, and like ever since learning the LTAP, like that piqued my interest even more because I was like, wow, it really does drive a lot of things, almost all of it, and so yeah, so yeah, it really like opened up a whole new world and um has completely changed the way that I practice now.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

Yeah, I love that. I love hearing that, and um well, I think it's in sometimes when sometimes when I'm like sharing about the LTAP and sharing about different alumni's like transformations and stuff, and and and people say what you just did is like completely changed my practice. Um and even like with my own, like reflecting on my own journey over as I've learned all this osteopathic stuff and and and and really leaned into like letting the body guide me where to start. Um the thought of like completely changing your practice is like an interesting one to me because I think we all say that because uh it is sometimes what you feel like, but it's also like well, it changes it, but it like it's not like you're everything you've learned up in the to this point is still important and you're still utilizing it. It's just you're supercharging it, like you're like it, it is it becomes so much more powerful when the body can help you figure out when to use it and where to sit. Yeah. So it's like because I'm also like, and I don't know, like I'm I'm like a big like words matter sort of thing, but I'm like, well, because a lot of us come to the this work and come to a lot of people come to the L Top Level One course already as really phenomenal practitioners, like already getting good results and arguably being really good at their technique and their you know, whatever they're doing. And um, so sometimes when I hear like, oh, it completely changed my practice, I'm like, even me, I'm like, oh, I I was already really good, but it did change my like completely change my practice. Like I'm still good, I'm pro I'm better, but it it changed the practice in terms of too like it makes it it makes it not feel so stale and stagnant because every single person that walks in the door, no matter if you could get five people walking with identical shoulder pain, meaning like pain in the same spot and the same movement patterns that created the problem, but every single one of their bodies will tell you a different spot to go, right? Like, and so it's like so cool in that way of yes, it's a puzzle to figure out, but it's a different like every time it's a different puzzle. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

I find that to be incredibly stimulating and an interesting same, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:54

Um I think that's what it changes, yeah. Like that's the change. It's like it doesn't make you a different practitioner, it makes it all so much more fun and inspiring literally every day in every patient.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

Yeah, yeah, because the you know, as curious people, we're always gonna like continue to learn new techniques and skills and tools. And sometimes you can like overdo it or like overcomplicate things. And you know, having these techniques and tools are amazing, but like knowing when to use them is even better, and I think that's like where the LTAP really shines is knowing when and where to use all of the things that you have learned. You know, it's like sometimes something is appropriate to do, and sometimes it's a waste of time or like a waste of energy to use that same technique um that you might not have needed to use because you actually didn't even need to touch that part of the body. Yeah. So like that has been very different. And it's also when I say change my practice, it's like it's like um it's me. Like it's more like how I view every single person as like, okay, like this is a blank slate today, you know, like it's not gonna be me making these like educated guesses and assumptions based on like all the knowledge I've acquired. I'm just gonna like stand with this person and be very present and listen to what their body is showing me, and then use all of my like you know, experience and training to like then know what to do to help them get out of it. And I think like that is what makes it special, um, what makes like this approach special and like uh LTAP and like osteopathic um bodywork generally, because we're looking and appreciating like the entire person and being so present with them, yeah. Um, and nothing sounds crazy, you know, like someone comes in and they say something to you, and they're like, Is that weird? And you're like, No, nothing's weird because you you know, you start to see everything, and you're just like not weird. That's it's just all becomes more interesting.

SPEAKER_01 19:21

Yeah, no, I love that. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, it changes you, it does change you. And and that I was just on a call with um like a preschool call with the people who joined the online course during the wait list, and I that's based what I I I mean, I tell every class that at the beginning, I was like, whether you realize it or not, this is going to take you on a personal journey as well of like letting go of your ego, drive your practice, and this belief that you're the expert, and this like it's very freeing. It's it's very freeing, and that's exactly what you're like saying is this freedom to just be present to the person because you don't actually have to figure it all out because you know all of the information you need is already within them. And by letting go of the need to be right and the need to be the expert, is you actually open yourself up to like seeing all that and feeling all of that, and like really being a um steward for their healing as opposed to like the person who has to figure it all out.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

And I think that is one of the most valuable things, honestly. Like, yeah, uh the kind of person that I am, you know, like being a curious mind and always wanting to learn more. Like, I think the freedom from having to know is a gift that like is underestimated in like learning to practice this way because it's so tiring. It's actually quite like energetically taxing and mentally taxing to always be like filtering through your head to figure stuff out, to give people answers, to have to know, and like to to not have to do that and to like release the why of things is like truly like a weight lifted, you know. You can really then like focus on on what makes us really good manual therapists, which is like being able to listen and feel with our hands, and that's what makes like I think us better and better. And like that's one of the best things I think you learn from the Brawl Institute is like the sensitivity of your hands and like all the things that you can learn to feel. Um, and I think like I wouldn't have gotten there without the L tab. So I'm like super grateful that like you've introduced that whole world to me because um it has made me a better practitioner and a more compassionate practitioner, you know. Like I I can listen better not only with my hands, but also like to the client because I'm not trying to figure it out, I'm not trying to take everything in that they're saying and then um interpret it and like try and make like connections. I'm just hearing what they're saying and then saying, okay, like let's see what the body shows us, and then let's see if we can change that, what you just said, you know, and that's so different than like okay, well, if that's hurting, and you know, obviously, like you said in one of your recent podcasts, um, I really liked that that uh you said about your index of suspicion. Obviously, you're gonna still have that and have your like inklings and intuitions, but at least it's not like so immediately there that like it's sort of overtaking and the story and the narrative, and also helps clients unlock their narrative and their stories because they get very, very hung up on their stories, and that's because of Western medicine, medical, like it the way it functions is that model, and so it's like taking that out of the equation and like is is kind of nice because it's finally like, oh yeah, like your body's showing us we don't really this is just what your body chose to do. This is a strategy, your body's trying to protect you, like it's always look you're always looking out for yourself, right? Like that's what's happening inside you, and so it just makes it easier for them to be like, Yeah, this is what's happening today, but it doesn't mean that this is like forever, you know, like you don't have to have a disc injury forever. Like, I don't, you know, people get very attached to those like diagnoses, so it's kind of nice to just be like, Well, it's moving better now. So, like, yeah, exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

I I um nowadays I refer to the patient's um input as they're an unreliable narrator, because I was I'm I'm in the book of the month club, and I was I was picking out a book one day, and you know, you read the little synopsis about the book, and and one of those books was like, Oh, the unreliable narrator. And I was like, Oh my gosh, that is what our patients are unreliable narrators of their story.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

Yeah, because they and and the more that you hold on to these ideas or narratives about your own body, the more they perpetuate because all your cells are just you know listening. I think our consciousness is broad, not just in our 100%, yeah. So I, you know, I think like if you have a story on repeat, your body's gonna operate with that uh programming. So, you know, then it's hard to get past. So it's like if we can erase this need to have a story or attach the story and just like be in the moment and like see what it is that day, and does it change over a couple sessions or not? And like then what is next? And that also it releases you as a practitioner too from like, did I do it right? Did I do enough? Did I did I hurt them? Did I, you know, like because sometimes you do a thing and there's a reaction and you don't know if you but like with the LTAP, the body's showing you where to go. Yeah, so like ultimately it's probably pretty safe, and like obviously you're choosing safe treatments and things that are within your scope, but like you know, you're you I feel empowered in knowing that like I'm not touching something that doesn't want to be touched.

SPEAKER_01 25:34

Yeah, it's guiding you, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Yeah, and if it doesn't like ahead of her. them is very low when the body's like actually asking for it 100% right and and if they're if they're you know seeing relief or not really seeing relief and it's not really going away then I know that it's not my technique or my treatments like then I truly know that and I've I've gotten more and more confident in this um as time goes on and I think as people incorporate the LTAB more and this principles and this way of working more um over time you start to see it too at first you're like how could that be so but then like after a while you're like it's so like I see it whereas like I'm working with people and if they are not getting better and then I'm gonna refer them like I'm gonna refer them to an MD, a naturopathic doctor, an acupuncture someone to like look at the thing that's like not getting better that's showing up like if there's sigmoids showing up all the time or kidney or something you know like then I'm gonna be like hey like you should probably get that looked at you know and it's happened a few times where like some women had ovarian cysts one client had cancer one client had um possibly a kidney infection that like nobody caught um so like there's just like stuff like that where you're like I know that I did what I was supposed to do and I listened to the body.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

Yeah I love that I mean I love it like as much as I hate hearing that you know people are have cancer and like right like it's like I don't want that but I love hearing that you are being an advocate for them and catching it like you know because I mean that just goes back to my why in the first place of you know like that happened to my mom and nobody because they are used you know because traditional physical therapy is kind of used to really crappy mediocre results like it wasn't an outlier but we know no yeah if we're in the right spot and the body keeps taking there and we're doing all the things and it's not changing like red flag yeah start asking different questions and maybe yeah like refer back to the doctor and you don't have to like scare the shit out of your patient and be like I think you have cancer but you have to be honest with them and be like let's rule some stuff out and like I want to talk to your doctor but like you know you also like need to advocate for them. So I love that you're uh I love that you're you've committed to it enough and are getting confident and you know because part of this is the repetition like what has given you confidence and being like no I'm doing all the right things like something's up is the repetition of it. If this had happened the first week after the L Tap you would like you would have just been like oh I'm not doing something correct. But now that you've you know now that you're like I mean I can't remember when you took the L Tap like maybe 2024. Uh huh yeah so it's like yeah now that you're like a year plus out you're like yeah uh nope it's pretty clear it's not me it's them and like let's escalate this and and that is why you've been able to help those people you know that your patient that had cancer and the infection and this this like because you have enough repetitions now and you've seen that it works most of the time so when it doesn't now that is the red flag yeah yeah especially when you can get more specific and like the some of the more specific treatments right like if someone's coming in and like I've seen a stomach release completely eradicate a shoulder issue.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

Like it's just gone. And so like you know and that's like a one one and a half sessions like yeah client could go like this no problem but when they walked in couldn't do it. But like after a really good like stomach esophagus release um the next time they came in they were like look and they were so excited and I was like oh yeah that's what it's supposed to do. That's what's supposed to happen. So like if you know a couple times and and it's not happening like it's clear then like we need to think broader and it and it helps you be a better practitioner in that way and like knowing like okay like there's a piece here that I am missing that is not part of my puzzle but is part of your journey and your puzzle so like you know I'm happy to like cross that bridge like help you talk to somebody like help you figure out like what testing you need like whatever but like you know I have no qualms about passing it on. And it has made such great relationships with other practitioners and I love collaboration. So like that always really builds a lot of trust with your clients and patients as well because they know like this isn't about like me locking you into like a package or making a certain amount of money or whatever. This is about me like helping the person in front of me come in and figure out what's wrong with them. Because a lot of people that find us I think at this point like the kind of work that you're doing and now I'm doing and that you're trying to build is that we're like more detective y and like that we're more willing to like explore with people and hear them and they've tried a lot of things and things weren't working. And so now they're like I don't know like someone sent me to you because they said you would figure it out and it's like well I'll get closer but maybe you know but like it's it's it's that and like giving them like some hope and optimism that like they don't have to be a certain way or in pain forever. And then when it comes to performance like with professional dancers like they can get back to what they're doing faster. You know I just worked with Ailey over this past weekend here in LA and um it's always really interesting because you wouldn't think so but dancers have a lot of injuries like really similar to contact sports. Yeah um a lot of central nervous system tension um they're like always doing stuff with their head or you know like a lot of them get concussions like hit each other stage lights you never know fall um and then um they work really hard they breathe you know like heavy so there's a lot of like stuff around the diaphragm a lot of liver a lot of like digestive especially when they're a touring company and they're on tour and it's a lot of like bus to plane to whatever and like they're eating as healthy as they can but it's still a lot of you know you see a lot of like digestive stuff happen and things like that and it really does like translate into their dancing because you know if you have like digestive stuff going on or like stuff around livers that your mid back isn't gonna have as much ro rate right range and rotation and that can like lead up into their necks and into their and it happens a lot. Um and even like in their feet because like for some reason liver and feet are very and kidneys but like yeah so like one dancer had like a toe thing and a FHL like area thing and like it was like CNS liver and he was like mostly almost better and then I treated that like one um metatarsal area on his right foot like more in more locally intently like just to open up the nubicular and like he was fine after and he was like that pain anymore and it was like great and he was like ready to get back on stage and like do what he needed to do. So yeah it's all like incredible incredible experiences and and every day is a different day and every day is like exciting you know it's like ooh are we fine and it's like I know I don't have to like uh kill myself to help to figure things out so and I know I'm gonna get good results.

SPEAKER_01 34:09

Well I just love it. I love hearing about your practice and and how fun you're having with it how much fun you're having with it and you just adding more tools along with it and um yeah it's been it's been cool to see you come full circle with it. And and and um I do remember that you were um when you did enter in you you like came in off of an ad and did the missing link and then like immediately signed up and like came in person, did the online course and so you've just been like full and invested the whole time and it's just been it's all it's always really cool to like see that like and see that rapid change and you know especially to like as a teacher um as a teacher like I think too my goal always is to like share all of my knowledge with people so that it's like um doesn't take you as long as it took me to get as good as I am right like it's like every and that's what like that's always how it is like when we're learning from people who took years for them to figure it out and they're packing packaging it in a way that is gonna like be rapidly quicker for us to learn. You know it still takes repetitions it still takes review it it still takes a process to it to get good at it but it's like you know it's just cool to see that it's like it's just cool to see how rapid you can learn something like this and like learn like trust your hands even more than you already did and like get such good results so fast. And I just I I love to see I I really do like it's really cool to see your progress I mean and everybody's progress through the course and just like I can't wait to see what you continue to do at all and um yeah you know I'll have too I'm excited for the next level yeah it'll be fun.

SPEAKER_00 36:20

Yeah um and also the the thing is too I think I jumped in with such an open mind like I was so ready like and so on board with what you were saying out the gate that like I guess like if you're coming into this um with like a lot of preconceived notions like my advice would be just like let it go. Just like be an empty cup and like get and dive in and like let all this information fill you up differently and just like challenge your old beliefs because they're limiting and you know like we're always learning and and science is always changing and you know like our understanding of the body is always always shifting as we discover more you know like quantum biology is coming on into the chat you know like there's all these things that are like changing how we look at the body. So like whatever you learned in school is like old now. So just like let it go and like learn something new and like you will make really fast um progress like I did. And like the the the difference too I think is like when I I like really wanted to know and really wanted to learn this and really wanted to like understand it. And it has gone my practice since also like how I do it and how I incorporate it and like how I'm uh structuring a set a session sometimes um has shifted a couple times. But it's it's all part of the growth it's all part of the learning it's all it's like you said like a year in like uh I was finally like okay like this is how okay um and getting better at things and stuff and like now like almost two years in it's like it's like very much more rote and like under like you can sort of see things even quicker and so it just gets better and better as as you continue to do it. And yeah like I I'm super happy that I went down this path and I always felt like a bit of an outlier in what I was doing. Like I was never your typical massage therapist. So for me I always felt a little bit like somewhere and I don't know I just felt like when I did the LTAP and I came and did the in-person training then like you know learning I was like these are my people and I finally felt like I belonged somewhere you know like where I was like oh yeah okay like this more this is the pool that I belong yeah so yeah so I'm very I'm glad you found us you definitely belong here and it it's a delight to have you in the community so um I'll make sure to in the comments of the Facebook Live I'll drop your Instagram handle in for people so if they want to connect with you and ask you any more questions about the LTAP how you use it or like your experience going through both the online and the in-person class they can reach out to you and um yeah I I appreciate you coming on and and sharing with everybody and uh yeah hopefully I'll see you again well I'll see you again in September maybe at the LTAP level too. Yeah I'll be married.

SPEAKER_01 39:39

All right all right my friend have a good rest of your day you too all right bye