How To Become So SuccessFul That You Get To Choose Your Customers

Join host Gary Ryan on Moving Beyond Being Good as he sits down with Paul Cowan, the visionary founder of Cowan Air and Cowan Doors. After 34 years in business, Paul reveals how he built a multi-million-dollar enterprise that puts choosing clients and delivering unparalleled service at its core. Learn how Paul turned early hardships into strength, developed proprietary software to drive accountability and efficiency, and fostered a culture where quality and respect shape every interaction.

From rejecting low-margin contracts to creating a flexible yet disciplined workplace, Paul shares pragmatic leadership lessons and the power of saying no to grow sustainably and profitably. Whether you’re an aspiring entrepreneur or a seasoned leader, discover how to build a high-performance business, keep your team aligned with vision, and maintain a lifestyle balance.

Learn more about Gary Ryan and Organisations That Matter here.

Learn more about Gary's SCALEFAST Program for small to medium sized business owners in Australia and New Zealand that he co-hosts with Alison Wheeler here.

Connect with Gary Ryan LinkedIn here.

Follow Gary Ryan on Instagram here.

Subscribe to Gary's YouTube channel where you can also watch this episode here.

Subscribe to Moving Beyond Being Good for behind-the-scenes reveals on servant leadership, business discipline, and creating organizations that truly matter.

If you would like support in creating a high-performance culture based on treating people as human beings, please click here to contact Gary Ryan

Transcript

Imagine owning a business that's worth $10 million and continuing to grow where you get to select your clients. Imagine that. Well, my next guest, managing director Paul Cowan of Cowan Air and Cowan Doors, is going to join us and explain exactly how he created a business that does that. Let's go. Hi folks, welcome to the Moving Beyond being Good podcast by Gary Ryan from Organizations that Matter. In this podcast, Gary shares everything about servant leadership, service leadership, authentic leadership, how to create high performance cultures, service excellence, and life balance. Here's your host, Gary Ryan. Thank you, Sienna, for your lovely introduction. Hi, folks. We're very, very lucky to have Paul K with us. How you doing, Paul? Good, thanks. Brian, how are you? Good. I'm going awesome, mate. Um, now, how long you been in business for? Since 91, which is a few years now. Yeah, that's Well, what's that? 34 years in business. And what's the evolution business has been over that journey? Because you've got quite a number now. I um finished my air conditioning apprenticeship and handed my notice in the day I was qualified and started my own business mostly out of ignorance and determination, not knowledge. So, but uh uh I was also running a cleaning business in the background which funded me to have the courage to start up my own air conditioning company. So, that was helpful. So, cow also taught me a few tricks on actually run a business. So, cow and air was the first sort of major business but you had this cleaning business you were running in the background while you were doing your apprentichip. Correct. Okay. And how how did that one come about? That's interest me. that um I just went one of the technicians I was working with went for an interview at a James Hardy business to be you know to move ship and um I walked in and the state manager of that business was my old boss who'd moved over there and I said to him is a buck stop with you he said yeah I said you must be ashamed of this place it's filthy he goes I pay a cleaner a fortune I said well pay me a fortune and I'll do it and he anyway and that's how it started as a joke and we ended up he gave that gave me the job. And I I said to him, I'll do it for half the price of the other company. Yeah. And um I gave him the quote, which was the same price. And I said to him, "Yeah, but I'm going to do twice as much work, so it's half the price." So anyway, that started off the first contract in um Swan Street, Richmond, near where where the Lamborghinis are now. So where Zagamis is. Nice. So, and then I ended up with about 25 contracts and I had staff working for me as an apprentice. We're going to dive into lessons, but what was one key lesson that you then carried straight into cow and air? Uh, the fundamentals of running the the tax and paperwork side of a business, a little bit about dealing with clients and staff. Um, and that gave me a basic understanding that I could run a air conditioning company as a oneman show at the start. Anyway, uh, you got the clean did the cleaning business stay going for a little while or did you did you I kept it for another two or three years after I started and then one of the supervisors bought it off me. Took a couple years to pay it off and he took it over. So, and then I just focused on the the air conditioning business. So, he did like until, you know, he was just a that was just a one of the workers that put his hand up and said, "I'll I'll buy the business off you." Why? Like a leverage. Is that what it was or? Yeah. So, and he took over all the he took over all the contracts in the name and I walked away.

Then I focused on the air conditioning business only because it was, you know, getting quite quite busy. Yeah. And so how long were you on the on your own for before you then got your first team member in? About two less than two years. And it was just um basic word and mouth where people would just refer me, refer me, and refer me. and and I got that busy I need to put another employee on. Then it just went from there. And and just for context, how many cow and air vehicles uh driving around now? where I think we're currently got about 26 or thereabouts and and about uh maybe half a dozen subcontractors as well running around and with so just just for the uninitiated uh we'll talk about each business but you know what what are specifically the services that have expanded over time that cow and air are providing cow and air um built its name on um giving the best service you could get in the industry so that the clients had no choice but to keep calling us and refer us to their friends. So we built up, you know, we got to half a dozen texts and then my challenge wasn't the clients, it was actually the staff trying to get them to see the vision, understand the vision and deliver it. Yeah. Yeah. Um and it was a bigger challenge that that the troops on the road were pretty um up to speed with what we were trying to do. They had their their you know their human error every now and again, but they were pretty on it. It's mainly the admin management team. They're the ones that I struggled with the most to try and get them to sew the vision and and help build the business. So that would be a pretty common challenge I would say a lot of business owners are going through. What would be like a couple of key things that you felt that over time you've done to help the management admin team get on board with the vision and and understand it and equally have some empathy and understanding about what's going on with the technicians out in the field. I quickly realized that um you can't manage people by sitting down and talking to them about what you need them to do. You actually need um to have documented proof of performance. So, um, because their interpretation of what they're doing and what they're actually doing, there's a big gap a lot of the time. So, I looked around at software trying to get those those numbers in front of me and I was inspired by a guy that I employed as a manager and he um he was giving a bonus of a it might have been a $5,000 plasma and he got the plasma and destroyed the business in getting it. So the long-term vision was destroyed, short-term gain. He got the profit. He got hit his KPIs and he got his his plasma. And I sat him down and said, "The merit of what we're doing here is destroyed, but you got your plasma." So I I think that we need to rethink this whole thing. And um he just wanted his plasma. So um it it clearly made me realize that you can set targets, but they got to be the right ones. Yes. Yeah. no software out there actually gave me the right vision to to deal with it. So I ended up building my own software which now gives me reports that I don't think any other company that that I've spoken to come close to it in analyzing the business from an performance point of view managing the managers and managing the guys on the road. Yeah. So that is the most important tool that we've got. Yeah. Yeah. Because without that, I'd be blind. I'll be running blind. Yeah. Now, there's other programs out in the market that will allow you to do it, but you're you're not getting the detailed specific needs that you you have in this business. So, I actually wrote the software to sell it to other businesses. And I did that. um but quickly realize that you're challenging another business to apply this software, apply some business disciplines and be accountable. So the owner's accountable that sometimes doesn't work because not every owner wants to be accountable. The management team's accountable that mostly don't want to be and the techs or your troops don't want to be accountable. Not to the point where it's black and white. So the resistance you get with software is a complete change of business that became too hard and I thought from a lifestyle point of view I'm not selling software because you're banging your head against the wall. Got it. I sold it to a couple of businesses in Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne and then they're still using it and love it, but I I'm not selling it to anyone else at this stage. Yeah. Yeah. And I I've seen that software and it is magic folks. I got to say I might be doing my best to persuade Paul to to have another revisit to that because as you say it's about identifying what the right measures are, the right KPIs. Uh and that can take some time, but it's about having the data so that people know where they're at from a performance perspective. And then as a business owner, you're also you you you you know where things are at. you know where problems emerge because the graphs tell you like the the trends tell you what's going on. You can you can look at it in a heartbeat and go I got I got an issue over here. Okay, let's give it the attention. Which means as an owner I mean one of the things that really has impressed me with what I've seen that you've created Paul is is how as an owner you you're able to apply your attention and effort and time where where it's needed and equally you've trained some of your management team now to be able to do that on on your behalf which is just fantastic. Um, but it's not just cow and air. You got more businesses. Let's let's keep talking. But finishing on the software, it's threeclick technology. So, within three clicks, you should have everything in front of you. So, we've got technicians that start on the road that get a rundown. Um, they double up with a tech for a day or two. They're fully fully understanding the software and they and they're independent. Um I've heard stories of other companies where they've introduced software and um staff have gone out on stress leave because they can't do their time sheet because it's just too difficult to use. Yes. But someone that starts with us, it may as well be with us for 20 years because when they arrive on a property, they've got the full history of what what's the where you the special client special instructions, what's open, have they approved quotes, who's been there last, where to access the building, all those questions are already answered at their fingertips. So that's helpful. that has been uh monumental to the to the ongoing success. So So another element of that which and we'll dive into the the other businesses which this this systems apply to too folks. So when when Paul starts talking about his other businesses the same the same uh softwares applied here. So Paul technicians out on site you know often they'll rock up to speak to the point of contact there that I'm here for AB and C. The client says, "Yeah, I'm hate you. Yep, you are here for A, B, and C." Can you do D as well? I mean, this sort of thing happens all the time. Does the software actually helpuce the time at which you can get deorgganized so you can do it as well? Yep. On arrival, they know exactly where to go, what to do, what's going on. They can say to the client, I understand you've got three outstanding quotes you haven't approved. We've also got two jobs open on this property. Yeah. Um, is there anything else I can help you with? and clients go, "Hold on, that's not normal from trades to know all that." Now, that could be someone that's worked for us for 3 days. They got all that knowledge. That creates a good working environment where the clients are happy to see us, the staff are happy because the client's happy to see you. So, um it creates a really good culture. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. But the but to to le leverage of that software I went to the industry all our clients and said what do you dislike about the industry the most and what do you dislike about the cowan group the most and whatever they are I'll make them our strengths. When did you do that? I I've done it a couple of times, but I did that um you know would have been um in the middle of developing the software going okay I need to develop this software around what the clients need and what the staff need and what the business needs. So let's go and look at all of it and put it together as one package. Yes. And so yeah, I love the question, you know, what do you most most dislike about the cow and group and having the willingness to ask that question because a lot of businesses avoid that question and the industry and they you know so it was an interesting um read but then um the way that you software is only one part then you got to apply a business discipline to the software of course. Yes. So I I adapted a a view that staff members when you start talking about profit, they think it's a big black hole that the owner's got this massive amount of unlimited funds. So we talk about missed opportunity, missed opportunity income, missed opportunity hours. So if we're 3 hours um of downtime, that's and and let's assume our hourly rate's $100 an hour, we talk about a missed opportunity income of $300. Yes. Which is a different mindset to profit. Yeah. Yes. So um and not only that, the the culture here is that those three hours are against that person's name and they don't want to see it against their name. So they want to avoid it. Yes. Yes. Um and um it ends up being a culture of people wanting to be fully chargeable instead of being okay to not not be chargeable. that which means there's a you got to be efficient with making sure you got the right parts. Yeah. The schedule's right. So the coordinators come they've got the same culture going so everyone has a little focus on making sure that we don't have this missed opportunity income problem. Yeah. And against their name as well. So that's um very different to talking about we lost so many dollars in profit. Yes. Staff see that very differently. Yeah. It's relatable to the staff, Paul. And so that challenge that you you initially uh shared about trying the challenges associated with trying to implement the software for some of the companies because of the accountability piece. This is highly on accountability that you're talking now. What what are one or two things that you've done to actually help persuade your team to embrace that level of accountability to create a a working environment where where the employer of choice. So you've got a good environment and to have a good environment, you don't want clients ringing you saying complaining that you haven't delivered on your promises. Yeah. So um so um it's not just paying good wages and and providing a good office and good tools and cars and whatever you need. It's actually having an environment where the clients are emailing us and we're getting we get a dozen a week. Thank you for the great service. Yeah, that's the the balance of a good working environment where the the staff then be start to to become proud of that and the brand and go right this is we need to deliver on our word and we need to deliver within the KPIs that the business has set and that that's the holistic view of a good a good business model where the staff are happy to come to work. I've I've employed or interviewed staff that why are you leaving? Well, I'm sick of getting abused when I turn up a site because the client's been waiting two months for us to fix something. Or an admin person says, "I'm sick of being abused on the phone all day." I said, "Well, you know, we get 12 thank yous and no abuses." Yeah. Come and work. Yeah. But that that's and there's another thing to that too is that um you don't the control you don't allow the clients to control your business. So, you choose which clients you get and you choose the standards that you work within and if those clients um need to um have a respect for what we're doing and appreciate it and if they don't then uh it's not going to work. You've you've shared with me, you know, what a lot of people would see as a high degree of courage. you see it a smart business um with with some of the clients that that over time you you've actually exited them because they they didn't show that respect for your staff and stuff and you know folks I got to say the backbone yeah the backbone of the business is you can't if you got really if you haven't got solid clients you haven't got a solid business absolutely and it's a two relationship isn't it so we we have excluded builders because of obvious reasons from financial stability Um, they're also a lot of the time not organized and you turn up the site and you have to walk away and you can't actually be efficient because you you got other people in your way. So, we focus on occupied buildings where we can control the environment. No building sites, no unions, no tenders. Tenders aren't loyal and the cheapest person wins. And you don't discount quality. This is our price. If you're discounting your your services, then that's really not the right. Well, I've never believed that's the right way to to to run a business. If you're providing a quality service, why would you discount it? Yeah. Well, you you look and I think you're you're in a fairly decent position of authority, Paul, because of the growth of your business over time. And if you're happy to share what revenue you went from year one to what you are now, that you know, you don't have to share, but if if you're happy to share that that uh give the audience started it, you know, I I I was pretty excited when I was a one-man show back in the early 90s, making, you know, uh turning over 300 grand, 400 grand, and then put a couple of staff on um and was excited to get to a million dollars turnover and thinking, "Wow, this is pretty cool." And then I thought, "Turnover. I've I've shifted my focus from turnover to profit." Yes, of course. So, and and built it up to, you know, over $10 million turnover. Yeah. So and and um based on saying no to a lot of things all those builders no to a client any client that wants more than you know five or 10 10% of our turnover so that we're not going to be in strife if any one leaves because you've spread your you spread your workload across the all the clients and not you know I go into some build some clients and talk to them or or business colleagues and they've got one client like Woolworth of selling everything to them. It's like oh my goodness or Worth and Coohl's only. It's like that's just that's not a business to me. That's a disaster in my view. But everyone everyone's everyone's got their business beliefs and how they should run. But I I think low risk, high return, and a good lifestyle are the three things that you need to consider when you're making a decision. Yes. So, I had a a big I had a big supermarket chain that um wanted me to take over 370 sites that that that um and I said no. And they go, "No, no, we we actually been recommended by you and we really want you to do it." And I thought, "They're they don't fit the lowrisk, high return, a good lifestyle. On the weekends, they will ring and be difficult. um they'll be um a high risk because there'll be a big volume and there'll be a low return. They wanted they wanted it as a discount. So there was nothing good about that volume business. Yeah. Yeah. At the same time, we've actually been low in work or had enough work and I've got rid of a a a fast food chain like the m like the KFC's or McDonald's or those type of people. Yeah. Yes. Where I got rid of um 60 or 80 sites and the team go, "What do you" I said, "Well, they want a discount. They've actually met met me and they told me they're dropping the price and they're resigning." And I said, "Well, no." And they called my bluff and I said, "No." Came to back to the office and everyone was like, "We haven't got enough work to sustain the current team." And I said, "Well, now we've got an open space to focus on the clients that are are valuable and we'll build it around that. Let's go." And we did. Yeah. Yeah. So, I said, "I've got no fear in in getting rid of a client. It's no good." So, how how did Cow and Doors come about? So I actually expanded cowan air to to Brisbane and the Gold Coast and realized very quickly that I've got doubled my overheads. I've doubled my travel and I've got to get on a plane to do it. Melbourne is is more based on relationships when you're in business. Brisbane is very and G Coast is very trans, you know, very transactional and they'll they'll sell you out for a dollar. So I went, hold on, this is not the space for me. So I decided instead of doubling my overheads, I'll I'll I'll sold that off to a guy that I'm still in contact with and I'll come and I'll open a second business in Melbourne and have my overheads. So have it run out of the same property and I looked at electrical, plumbing, fire, all that stuff. And I came across a a guy that's selling a commercial roller door company called Statewide Roller Doors in 2012, right? and I ended up moving him into my my building and watching it run before I bought it. Um, and then worked out the lay of the land and ended up buying that. Um, and rebranded at Cow and Doors and from what I bought it back in 2012, it's probably about four, five times bigger than it was. And it was uh it wasn't business that had all those challenges that needed that software and the business disciplines to take it to the next level. Yeah. Like talking about accountability. Um not far off the word cowan actually in the in that word a cowanab cowanability. I like that. you like that your knowledge over time and you're certainly someone that that does take accountability, does take responsibility, is is quite prepared to make decisions as you highlighted there before. Um, you know, went went to up north, doubled my overheads, had to do get on a plane to make that happen. Quickly worked out actually this isn't really a great business decision. So then you acted quickly, sold the business, supported that person in taking over, thought, okay, there's another opportunity down here, brought someone in with a with with something that you thought might be something being the the statewide roller doors. Uh got to learn the lay of the lay of the land as you said, picked up I can actually make this bigger. You've you've four to five exits since you've taken over since 2012. Who do you who have you leaned on or how did you find people to lean on over time to help you with your business? Now, Paul, how did that bit happen? Uh, I um ended up um crossing paths with some very successful business people through looking after their contract commercial office buildings and whatever their owners of that ended up um they liked my style. So we we we'd end up going out for dinner and then I'd get that would catapult me into a new group of people and then those guys would be another group of people and before you know it I'm surrounded by some extremely successful but good good decent people that are successful. I also came across some people that I didn't wasn't aligned with and quickly deleted them. But the these guys and then you can actually openly talk to them about your your your business challenges, your profit, your your your wealth, everything that you've you've achieved. You can actually talk to them without being judged, being um misunderstood. Um and that that's been super helpful. And and they've and we've ended up with a group of guys that lean on each other. And you know, some guys blow me away. They ring me up and they're in multi-billion dollar businesses asking me how they should deal with the boardroom issue they've got because they think I'm quite direct and um clean about the way someone needs to be told something. Yeah. Yes. Um and then they go off and do it and it terrifies me because don't don't follow my my direction. They go, "No, that's [ __ ] great. That's exactly what needs to happen." So, um, yeah, that's that's that's been very helpful because, you know, I'm the only one here making decision. So, um, in my business and I've got no one to got no partner to lean on. So, um, I've got to be disciplined even to the point where if I want to buy myself a toy or something personal, I set some rules about I need to achieve something. It might be getting the management team more efficient, whatever it is. Once I've got that established, then I'll go and reward myself with the bonus. And and you were talking about problems in a business. I said, you know, when there is a problem, the first thing I do is where have I contributed to it? Have I not trained? Do we not have the right process? Have I employed the wrong person for the role before I even bother going to that person? And and then you got to make a decision. Well, if they're not trained or you haven't got the right process, then sort that out. If it's the wrong person, then sit them down and be very clear with them. This is the expectation. If you can't meet it, it's not going to work. So, let's see how we go. Or do you want to call it a day now? Because this isn't this is not going to work with these this particular situation continuing. Yeah. So, you get a mixed you get a mixed response from being direct. Some people um I've had people at an interview agree to be employed and they've flown their flag. they've gone home and thought about it and thought I don't want to work here because um it's you know it's a place where um it's flexible, rewarding but also accountable. So um and they and they email back saying I'm sorry I found another job and I've been very clear putting them on that you know we'll be flexible. You can you know you if you've done your job we're not walk we're not clock watches. If you've done your job and you got to leave early one day go early one day. We're not we're not pushing a hard barrow. We just we're after a really good outcome and and we want you to live be here for a long time. So it's like a lifestyle where you can be a bit flexible to do what you need to do during the day sometimes um providing you're getting the results. Yeah. I mean again if if if folk ever get to come to your your head office um and just see just how beautiful it is for for for a business that's in the trades but you have a beautiful office like it's a great reflection of everything that you I built this um group um which you saw lunch area that's um one of the girls that started recently didn't really didn't really click with the team and every Friday we buy lunch for the whole office and we sit as a group and have a chat. Doesn't cost a lot of money but after um um we had that lunch and she was there she um said to me I actually have now gelled with the whole team because we sat there and and bonded for an hour. Yeah. And there's no clock watching whether lunch is you know 30 minutes or 45. It's just whatever conversation on the day is happening you let it roll. So, like when we call in all the techs on the road for a team meeting, it's it's um it's technically a toolbox meeting, but it's a bonding session. Yeah. So, we get catering for that and they just they talk and talk and talk and you let them go and you're not pushing them out the door. It's like let you know do your bonding and and then we'll then we'll be um a stronger business. Well, one of the days uh when I was there, you you some cars were getting finished getting detailed and I quizzed you about and you said I I regularly do it and the CL the vehicles look just amazing. They just look every single one of them brand new. That's like this this is this is simpation and work environment is is important. A client sees you turn up with a a professional clean vehicle and uniform. your work space in particular is clean the whole time. The client uh assumes that you're doing a good job. Yeah. But if it's a dirty work environment, they start looking around for fingerprints or or scratches. And so um you don't give them a reason to to question you. So some someone wanting to start out in business, would there be three key things that you would say to them? because it's it's look let's be brutal on this running businesses in Australia is hard right and but one of the things I I say to people is you know it's hard not having what you want and it is hard having creating what you want so choose your hard right so if you want to be in business if you really want to be in business choose the hard of being in business so for for for folk that might be thinking you know I want to choose that hard what would what would be someone asked me the other day and I said and look I said go and work in that industry before you go and decide to borrow money and open up a business. Yeah. Go and work in someone else's business and see how the industry work and preferably in the management team and understand it and see whether you like it and see whether or not it's viable and see whether or not it's actually going to be a solid profitable long-term business. It's not a fad. Yeah. And then uh if that if you've ticked that box and you've understood that then my preference is that if you if anyone in the business can have it over you then you're in strife. So I'll never run a restaurant because I'm not a chef. If a chef comes to me one day and says I want and starts putting demands on me um I want to be a chef so that I'll say well you can nick off and I'll start cooking. Yeah. Um but so um I've got an electrical and and refriger and air conditioning license. So um all the techni technicians on the road and all the admin team I can fill those roles. Bit rusty on the tools but I could fill them. But I can also can't because I'm technical I can actually get involved in whether someone's taking the advantage of the place or whether they're doing a good job. And also I my input is valuable to give technical direction when we're in strife somewhere. So I think it's important that you but that's not critical but it's ideal if you can if you can be if you can be able to replace any role that's handy. Just to be clear there you're saying the the main technicals attributes of what the businesses are about. You're advocating you you want to be someone who has those skills. Yeah. Yeah. So, if an accountant goes and buys an air conditioning or roll the door company, he's going to make business decisions that that aren't completely that aren't completely in line with what the technicians might need, the clients need, and and he won't know whether people are pulling the wool over his eyes because they'll tell him something and he just have to look at them and go, "Okay, I you sound convincing." So, so that's that's and I've I've seen that with people that run businesses that don't understand Yeah. Um the business and that's and they go and buy a business and then and you know like the chef one and the chef's ordering all this food in they don't understand that that food's going to get thrown out because they don't understand the numbers. Yeah. So they and they can't work out whe they're not making any money. So same with technical. So the preference is but it's it's not mandatory but it's very solid if you can be in that position. So uh that's that's really important and then um and then go and whatever business that is. So you got past that hurdle whatever business it doesn't matter what industry you're in. You got to be the best at that industry. So whatever you're delivering in whether it's a restaurant or whether it's um air conditioning, roll the doors, let whatever it is, go and find out what the industry is doing and then do it better than everyone else. And then um and then have a doing it better than everyone else means being the employer of choice and being the provider of choice. And then you end up getting people coming to you that want to work for you and you get clients that want that ring up and want to um come on board as well. So, and then you can then choose who you work for. Yeah. And who you employ. But if you're not very good at it, then you go and work for tenders because you can get the cheapest one wins. So, it doesn't mean you're good, but you just you'll get you'll get a you'll get volume. You'll get volume with no profit. Yeah. And if you're not good, you'll get volume with no profit and an inefficient business that doesn't actually know how to make that happen either. So, it just becomes a compounding problem. Yeah. So, um you've got to be committed to being the best in your sector and um from an employee and and client point of view and and then make the right decisions that that saying no is very successful. saying yes to everyone uh digs yourself a hole. Yeah. I mean, because you then you end up with the wrong clients or too much work. Now, you've also you've also got yourself into the position over these 34 years and and certainly more recently where you've been able to have your focus on some other things are about where you're going into the future and the business has still run exceptionally well. I mean, you've shared some some pretty incredible. It runs it runs pretty well without me. I could during summer um two years ago I took um a month off went overseas with the family came back and then renovated a new office building that we were doing. So I was pretty out of the business for 6 months. In those six months um I was barely I was there if they needed me to be but I wasn't there at all. Yeah. other than that and I was just overseeing the numbers and everything was working and in my absence the building the business actually grew in those 6 months efficiency and volume and then we moved into the new the new building and um and that's um the the culture of the business the the the software the clients the the whole the whole structure that I put in place to to make that happen. Yeah. Um, so that's allowed me to do some property development renovations if you like in the background. Um, and and use the, you know, the the cash flow from the business to allow me to do that as well. So, and that's then that's actually helpful to get out of your business, do that. Then you can come back in and look at it clearly. If you're there every day, sometimes you can get not not to really see what's going on. just just to wrap up today because obviously with Cowan Air and Cow and Doors the naming of the business and using your own name like like when when you first started I mean oh that's interesting someone said to me don't use your own name and I said why and they go if you go broke your name will be m I said if you think that you're not going to give it your all and you're going to screw it up then don't start it in the first place back yourself fully and get on with Don't don't start with oh let's hide and call it you know PAC air conditioning um in case it goes broke because that's just setting yourself up for the wrong mentality. So someone asked me what's the key to my success and it's saying no to the wrong things which means you got to know what the right things are and uh it's not through knowledge it's through determination. when something goes wrong, be determined to put your hand up and go, "Yes, I um acknowledge that and we'll fix that today and then we'll work out a solution that we won't do it again." I'm interested. I'm interested in this thought on this because I, you know, I I I agree. If I if I was uh starting my business again, I would actually use my name. I would definitely do that. Um yeah, it's establish that matters. Well, established now. um you know I'm not going to not going to go changing that but um you know I I definitely over the journey you you know that that willingness to put your name behind everything is absolutely there. I I'm interested in your thoughts on this uh statement cuz you know again with the the people in the sort of startup space I explained to them that when you when you commit to your business that commitment has to include the willingness to actually lose everything. Now, you're not you're not worried that you're going to lose everything, but it's like when you jump off the end of a pier, right? When you commit to jumping off the once you're in the air, you're going to hit the water one way or another. It's going to be a soft landing, a nice landing, a belly whack, or whatever it's going to be. But that there is that mindset of that willingness to go, I am actually going all in here to make it a success. But that that willingness to make it a success, there's a degree, you got to go, I might lose everything. What do you think? If I use the word willingness, I put a different spin on instead of the willingness to to lose everything. Acknowledge that to make you determined to be successful and have a a cash flow positive business. Someone said to me once, there was a uh particular guy that I know and he said, "I'm going to I've just gone to the bank and I've got a $100,000 loan and I'm going to start a business." I go, "What are you doing with the hundred grand? Why have you got a loan? What do you need it for?" for it because I need it for the cash flow. He had no idea what he was doing. And I said, "Mate, if you jump on a bike and ride at 100 miles an hour, if you've never driven a bike before, what do you reckon is going to happen? You're going to crash." Yeah. So, why are you going boots and all and trying to build an empire in a day? Just step by step. You don't have any product, any sales, any clients. You got nothing. And but you've gone and done that. put put some things in place slowly and build it. Don't don't try and wake up one morning and have it all done. Um because I don't think the the starting a business just in debt for no good reason is the right way to start a business. Yeah. I said to him, you know, the best business you can do and it might sound unrealistic to some people is start a business that's cash flow positive from day one. get deposits up front on completion, get full payment. You're not funding anyone. And that that those jobs should be profitable and straight up. You don't actually need very little money to start your business. And the people that don't want to pay that deposit up front and and full payment on completion, give them another option. Google another company. only deal with the people that will actually fit your your but yeah be able to be that confident in doing that. You're going to have to have a really good product and a really good service to actually demand that. You can't demand that if you're not really delivering on something that's worth that. Yeah. And you got to be 100% sold on yourself. You got to believe that that we're going to deliver and you got to be willing to do the work. What's uh what would be some of the what are the easiest ways for people to find out about how to access some services from Cow and Air or Cow and Doors? Paul, um Google Cow and Air Cow and Doors. Um give us a ring and we'll see if we'll see if we're both a fit. Yeah. So that everyone everyone wins. Then if we're not a fit, we'll refer you to someone else. Yeah. Love it. Love it. And uh we'll pop the link down in the uh show notes for everyone for uh both businesses folks for be able to reach out and make contact and see if you're a fit as Paul said. M I want to thank you for your time. I really appreciate it. I know you're a busy got you got some people knocking knocking on your door as we're speaking. Uh so folks, thanks again to Paul Cowan for coming along and sharing his incredible journey over the past 34 years. It's a journey that's well and truly not ended yet. Uh, so definitely reach out and see if you're a fit to work with Paul through either cow and air or cow and indoors. Remember folks to like and subscribe to the Moving Beyond being Good podcast. We're here to help you learn and grow and get better at leadership, better at business, and of course help create high performance cultures, which you've heard Paul's version of how he's gone about doing that. And again, that dashboard that he's created is unbelievable, folks. Uh, once again, I'm Gary Ryan from Organizations that Matter and I look forward to you joining us all for the next episode. Thanks again, Paul. Guys, thanks. Bye.