Moving Beyond 'Cutout Culture' to Transform Relationships

Have you ever caught yourself branding someone as 'toxic' and severing ties without a second thought? Our latest episode challenges this reflex and encourages a deeper look into the motives and stories behind the behaviors that trouble us. Join me as we dissect the narratives that shape our perceptions of others and discover how to foster growth by engaging with the complexities of human interactions. Through candid conversation and personal reflection, we learn that the real growth occurs not in distancing ourselves, but in how we navigate and evolve these challenging relationships.

Confronting difficult behavior can sometimes feel like an impossible task, especially when it comes to authority figures in the workplace. My own experiences taught me that while walking away seems simpler, the true power lies in advocating for respect through open communication and assertive dialogue. This episode shares the transformative journey of standing up to a boss with less-than-ideal behavior, and how such encounters can eventually lead to improved dynamics and personal fulfillment. We're not just talking about surviving the corporate world; we're redefining how to thrive in it by championing our worth and fostering authentic connections.

Let's shift the conversation from cutting out the so-called toxic individuals to one of empowerment and self-advocacy. This isn't about giving a pass to unacceptable behavior, but about building the skills to set boundaries and communicate effectively, even with those we find challenging. I invite you to join me in exploring how to break free from a 'cutout culture' and instead cultivate resilience and deeper understanding in our personal and professional relationships. It's an episode packed with actionable advice and heartening stories that will leave you inspired to transform the way you relate to the world around you.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

You are listening to the Authentic Life Connection Podcast, episode number 175. Welcome to the Authentic Life Connection Podcast. I'm your host, seth Lusk. I'm a master certified life coach, author, personal trainer and nutrition specialist. For over a decade I've been helping people with their dreams and goals for their life and health.

Speaker 1: 0:29

I spent many years watching people get frustrated with their journey in life and giving up on taking actions towards their goals. So I dug in deep to find answers to why so many of us face this same frustration and struggle in life. So in this podcast, we're going to dive in deep on topics surrounding what it means to consistently live a fulfilling and authentic life where you are unstoppable in taking action towards your dreams and goals. So the only question is are you ready to start living your most authentic and fulfilling life once and for all? Then let's get started. Shall we? Shall we that it's going to be challenging. Okay, I'm going to just say that up front. This is going to be challenging, but I think it's something that today is so, so, so, so important for us all to really begin to understand, especially since the whole self-love, personal development movement now seems to be taking some turns that I can already see are just taking us down a path that are leaving people feeling disempowered, leaving people feeling very frustrated with their life, leaving people chasing things that are not fulfilling them. And today I want to talk about one of the trends that I see in the whole self-love personal development movement right now and I've already done an episode about this sort of but I want to talk about it in a different way today and it's this whole idea that there are toxic people out there and that part of our journey of self-love is cutting toxic people out of our lives. And when I talked about this before, I told you all I don't agree with this idea that there are toxic people. What I see happening whenever I talk to someone who talks about a toxic person in their life toxic person, toxic, this toxic that when I really get into a deep conversation with them about this toxic person or this toxic thing, what we uncover is that the person that they are labeling as toxic is not necessarily the problem. The problem is the other person's relationship with that person and how they relate to that person's behaviors, how they interpret those person's behaviors and therefore how they react or respond to those person's behaviors and therefore how they react or respond to those person's behaviors. And so today I want to talk about this because I think it's so important and I know it's so easy to like.

Speaker 1: 3:34

I've always said we love to go to extremes. It's either one extreme or the other. We don't like looking in the middle. We don't like looking in the middle because the middle is uncomfortable, the middle is uncertain, it's gray, and we're taught that there is a right and a wrong, a good and a bad. And I'm here to remind you all that life is both. It's good and bad, it's right and wrong. Every decision that we make is right and wrong, good and bad. Every behavior is right and wrong, good and bad. It's not either or. It is always both.

Speaker 1: 4:09

And when we go into personal development and we change our lives, the lives that we create are not going to be good versus the bad life that we had before. They're just different. That's a different set of good and bad, a different set of ease and comfort versus discomfort and challenge. It's not better, it's not a good life and before it was bad. It's just different.

Speaker 1: 4:34

And this is crucial to understand, because the same thing happens in this whole idea about toxic people and cutting these people out of our lives, because these people are not what's toxic. What is toxic is how we relate to them. And I want to be clear here, because I know that so many of you will jump on that statement and say, hey, no, no, no, no, no. You're one of these people that tells people that they should stay in abusive relationships and they should stay in abuse, and they should stay in abuse and they should tolerate abuse and they should tolerate that. And that is not what I'm saying at all. What I'm saying is we have to stop jumping the gun here and immediately, when we have multiple interactions with a person that feel toxic to us, not to jump to the conclusion that the other person is toxic. And that is not me saying accept their behavior, stay around their behavior, tolerate their behavior. This is me saying we've got to start looking at these situations differently if we want to produce real growth and change.

Speaker 1: 5:40

Because here's the thing All human behavior is a product of stories that people are telling themselves about life and what needs to and should be happening in it person, and so, therefore, they do toxic behaviors. It is a product of a story that they have about life and what is the best thing for them to do, the best way for them to show up in that story, and when we can start seeing that, first we open up an entirely new way of handling these quote-unquote toxic people, and this is crucial. Here is why what I see happening in so many people's lives people that I coach, people that are friends, people that I just see in the news on social media talking about cutting these toxic people out of their lives If you watch them in their lives closely, there is a pattern around the kind of people and when I say kind of people, I mean people that exhibit certain types of behaviors, these people that call other people toxic and cut them out of their lives you will start to notice, if you really lean in and pay attention. There is a pattern, lean in and pay attention. There is a pattern around the people that they label as toxic. And there's a reason why Because the reason these people that they label are toxic are acting in a certain way is generally because those people have a particular way of interpreting life and therefore a particular way of showing up in life. And then the person that is calling those people toxic also has a very particular story of life and therefore a very particular way of interpreting life and therefore a very particular way of interpreting those specific types of behaviors. And this, this right here, is why I say we need to do better. We need to stop jumping the gun and labeling these people as toxic and just cutting them out of our lives. And the reason why is because people that I see that have been doing this for a long time, or even not even for a long time, just for a period of time where they jump into this. Oh yeah, I just got to look for the toxic people in my life and cut them out of my life.

Speaker 1: 8:08

Here's what I see happening. They end up making their own lives smaller and smaller and smaller. Their ability to show up in situations in life that are just part of life is decreased and decreased and decreased Because what they're doing is they're avoiding being confronted with certain types of behaviors or certain types of circumstances. But here's the problem with that those behaviors and circumstances are a reality of life. There are people in this world that behave that way, and they don't do it because they're bad people or toxic people. They do it because there are mindsets out there, there are ways to interpret life out there that end up showing up in this way, and when we teach ourselves that the solution is label it toxic, cut it out. What we end up doing is harming ourselves and our own ability to show up in life and be around people that exhibit certain types of behaviors and be around certain types of circumstances, which all that does is makes our ability to be in life more difficult and makes our ability to show up in life. It makes it weaker, it makes it smaller, and the only person that affects is us. It doesn't change the world. It doesn't change the toxic people, because they're still going to interpret life the way that they interpret life and they're still going to show up with those behaviors.

Speaker 1: 9:53

And if your solution is to just cut those people out of your life, to put distance between you and them, all you're doing is teaching yourself to not be able to handle the reality of life, to not be able to show up and respond in a healthy way that allows you to stay aligned with purpose and continue to move forward in certain circumstances and around certain people. So I want to be clear here. This is not about tolerating behaviors. That's not what I want to tell you to do. But if your solution is, every time you encounter a behavior that feels toxic to you and I use that word feels toxic to you, because that behavior is not toxic, it feels toxic to you. And if you teach yourself that, every time you're around that behavior, just cut it out, distance yourself, all you're doing is making your own life and your ability to show up in it smaller.

Speaker 1: 10:54

There is a way that we can. When we are around these people, what we need to understand is that what feels toxic to us is how we are interpreting that behavior, and that doesn't mean we just tolerate that behavior and we interpret it in a different way. That's not what I'm saying, although that is one way we can do it, and there have been times in my life where I have been around a behavior that felt very toxic for me and I talked to the person about it and I told them hey, listen, when you do this, the only way that I know how to interpret that is like this. So this is what it means for me and I don't like that. And so many times that I've had these open and honest conversations with people, what I find is that the other person is like huh, that's really interesting. Maybe they don't say it in those exact words, but the response equals something along the lines of that's really interesting, because that's not what I mean by that at all and that's not an excuse like saying oh well, since you don't mean that by it, then just keep doing it.

Speaker 1: 12:00

A lot of times what ends up happening is the person's like okay, maybe then I don't want to respond or behave in this way, if that can be interpreted in that way. But sometimes what I notice is, when they tell me what they mean by that particular behavior, I notice oh okay, so that's why you're doing that, that makes sense. And then actually I'm okay with them doing it. I'm like now I's why you're doing that, that makes sense. And then actually I'm okay with them doing it. I'm like now I see why a person would do that. Now I see why a person might respond to these situations in this way, might show up and behave in that way. And actually, you know what, it doesn't bother me anymore. Now that I know, now that I know that that's why you're doing this, it actually really doesn't bother me. What was bothering me is that I thought it meant this over here.

Speaker 1: 12:43

So, my friends, first of all, when we label people as toxic, when we label behaviors as toxic, we end up cutting people out of our lives. We end up shutting our own ability down to be able to be around certain behaviors without fully understanding what's actually going on there. And a lot of times when we really understand what's going on there, we're able to be around those behaviors and interpret it in a whole new way and say you know what? Actually it doesn't bother me anymore, it's okay. It's okay because I understand now where that's coming from. Now there are other times when we will be around a behavior and we tell the person hey, listen, when you do this, the only way that I know how to interpret that is this way, and maybe your interpretation of it is not correct. It's not why the person is actually doing it. But it still doesn't matter why the person is doing it. You don't want to tolerate that behavior. But here's the thing when we distance ourselves from that behavior, when we cut that behavior out of our lives, all we are doing is actually punishing ourselves. The other person just gets to go around in life and continue doing whatever it is that they're doing. Maybe they might be like oh well, that's sad that I lost a friend, but we don't really grow in that situation.

Speaker 1: 13:59

There have been times in my life where I have told people hey, listen, when you do this, this is the interpretation that I get, and no matter how they explain why they're doing that thing, I'm still not okay with them doing that thing. But what I've noticed is when I don't cut the person out of my life, when I open up a dialogue about it, when I create awareness around the fact that I'm not okay with this behavior, this is how I interpret that behavior. This is what that behavior means to me. I don't like this behavior, even if the person does not see something wrong with their behavior.

Speaker 1: 14:36

A lot of times, what ends up happening is I increase my ability to communicate to a person who exhibits this behavior what I am okay with, what I am not okay with, and I don't need to cut the person out of my life. I don't need to remove them from my life. I don't even need to create distance. Instead, what I learn is a way of communicating to this person. Okay, now I'm not okay with this. We've reached that point where I am not okay with this. We need to shift the dialogue. We need to shift the behavior. We need to shift what is going on here. I've reached the boundary, I'm no longer okay with this, and what ends up happening is I don't change the other person, but I completely change the way that me and this other person interact with each other. Maybe, when we reach that point where there's a behavior coming out that I'm not okay with, we pause and we say, okay, let's take a step back and we'll re-approach this when emotions are less heightened. Let's find a new way to talk about this. Let's see if we can ask some more questions here and create some more understanding about what's really going on here and in this situation.

Speaker 1: 15:54

I don't need to change the behavior. All I need to do is change the way that I respond to it, and in the process, I learned skills of communicating clearer. I learned skills of advocating for myself clearer. I learned skills of being able to express my interpretations of behaviors in a way that produces more understanding, produces more compassion and produces a different way for people to relate to me and me to relate to them. And what I notice is, when I am around people, that I have the tendency to label them as toxic, label the behavior as toxic and just kind of push them away, distance myself, label the behaviors toxic and just kind of push them away, distance myself and say I'm not tolerating that. When I lean in and I communicate instead, when I respond instead of react instead, I slowly start to also evolve my way of relating to these kind of behaviors, way of relating to these kind of behaviors, relating, changing my story around these kind of behaviors and realizing I can actually be around these behaviors and be okay, they don't hurt me, they don't mean something about me.

Speaker 1: 17:17

Now this is very different and I want to be clear here. There's also a line here at which I will say if there is physical abuse, physical harm going on, I am there to make sure that physical violence does not occur, allows for us to open up dialogues between ourselves and other people where quote-unquote abusive behavior is taking place, that allow for us to see each other and understand each other in a very different way. And that doesn't mean that we tolerate the behavior. That doesn't mean that we are okay with the behavior, that we accept the behavior, that we allow certain things to happen to us. It means that we change the way that we relate to it. No longer do we shut down and become a victim to that behavior? No longer do we shut down and become a victim to that behavior.

Speaker 1: 18:24

Because, my friends, when we allow ourselves to be physically abused or even emotionally abused, we are a victim to that behavior. When we shut down and we just accept it, we allow it, we tolerate it, we become a victim to that behavior. When we don't speak our truth, when we don't communicate to the person hey, listen, I'm not okay with this behavior here we become a victim to it. But at the same time, when our solution is to just run away, cut the person out of our life, disappear and not advocate for our truth, we also become a victim to that behavior. Because, my friends, when we do this, I promise you, if you look at your life, my friends, when we do this, I promise you, if you look at your life, that same sort of toxic relationship to a behavior will appear somewhere else in your life, either with a new person coming into your life or with a person that's already been in your life, and you will start to notice that you relate to them in the same way that you related to this person that you felt abuse around.

Speaker 1: 19:20

Related to this person that you felt abuse around you, were a victim to abusive behavior around them, and this is why I say it is crucial that we learn to stop labeling the person and the behavior as toxic and just cutting it out of our lives, because when we do this, we become a victim to that specific story of life that creates that behavior and that story exists in other people in other circumstances in life is decrease our own ability to show up and respond to the reality of life in a way that advocates for our truth and that advocates for our purpose and what we are here to do and create and teach and contribute to the world. The other person and the lessons that they will learn will not come from you. The other person and the lessons that they will learn will not come from you. They will come from their own ability to change the way that they relate to life, and maybe you will become a catalyst in that process. But that's none of your business. That's up to them.

Speaker 1: 20:35

Your business is to learn how to be present in the full reality of life and not be victimized by it and having to cut things out of your life, remove it from you, because you don't want to learn how to change your relationship to it and your response to it, so you can show up in an empowered way and maybe say, no, I'm not okay with that behavior. This is why I will not tolerate that around me. This is why this is when we take our power back. This is when we stop being a victim to that behavior and maybe the other person, when we tell them hey, listen, I'm not okay with this behavior anymore. Maybe they choose to create distance, that's okay, that's on them. But you, my friends, it is your responsibility to say hey, listen, this kind of behavior is a reality of life. There are going to be people in this life that do this. There are going to be people in this life that say things that feel racist, that feel sexist, that feel homophobic, that feel I don't know xenophobic all of these different ways that people can show up.

Speaker 1: 21:49

And when we label those people and those behaviors as toxic and just say, nope, shut out, all we do is decrease our ability to respond to life. We decrease our ability to show up in the reality of life empowered and say, hey, listen, I'm not okay with you saying that. Here's why I'm not okay with you doing that around me. And here's why, versus just saying nope, that person is toxic, that person is bad, get out of my life. And then what you will notice is that more people show up in your life that exhibit behaviors that feel the same way.

Speaker 1: 22:27

Cut them out. Then a new person comes in. Cut them out. Then a new person comes in. Cut them out, until eventually, what you notice is that you are hiding in your own life, so much so that you feel terrified to get out there in the world. Do the things that you truly want to do, create the things that you want to create in your life, because you're afraid of encountering toxic behaviors and toxic people.

Speaker 1: 22:51

And this is why I say we need to be careful about using that word, throwing it around and using that descriptor as a reason why to just cut people out of our lives, that friend in your life that you feel like always causes you to do things that you don't actually want to do. They're not the problem. Your ability to advocate for yourself, your ability to say no, I'm not doing that, I'm not okay with that, this is not what I want to do. And here's why. To a person who has their own story about life and their own reasons why they want to do those things and they want you to join them. They're not the only ones in this world that have that story or a similar story about life and will show up with those same behaviors.

Speaker 1: 23:35

And by you just cutting that person out of your life and saying I can't tolerate that, I can't be around that, you have just decreased your own ability to be present in a reality of life and respond to it in an empowered way that advocates for your truth and your desires, your values, your purpose in life, while life is still life and those people with those kind of stories are going to be in it. This is not a message of tolerate and accept. This is a message of stop labeling people as bad or toxic and cutting them out of your life, because all you are doing is harming your own ability to respond to the reality of life in an empowered way. That friend who does this is maybe actually a representation to you of the areas in your own life where you haven't strengthened your ability to say no, I don't want that, this is what I want, and advocate for it. And when you're able to do that clearly and empowered and decisively, then people around you saying, hey, come on, let's go do this. Oh, come on, don't be a baby. Oh, come on, don't be a wimp. Oh come on, don't be a prude. Oh, come on, don't be a this. Oh come on, don't be a that. That doesn't affect you anymore Because you know, hey, listen, no, I just that's not what I want to do, this is what I want to do over here, not that. And you can be around these people and they no longer influence you. That behavior, that story of life no longer influences you to do things that are actually against what you know you want to do with your life. And by not cutting these people out and learning to respond to them in a different way, learning to show up with your truth and advocate for yourself in a different way, you have now increased your ability to respond to the reality of life in a way where you stay empowered, you stay on your path, you stay in your own decision of how you want to live and create your life, no matter who's around you and what they say.

Speaker 1: 25:43

That boss that you feel is disrespectful, instead of quitting the job because that boss is toxic or trying to get the boss fired because that boss is toxic. Maybe this is actually an opportunity for you to learn how to say hey, listen. When you do that, that feels very disrespectful to me, and here's why. And maybe that boss is like wow, you know what? No one's ever told me that before. I'm going to lean in and learn something here. Or maybe that boss says you know what? No, this is your problem.

Speaker 1: 26:12

And you say, no, it's not, I'm not okay with this behavior.

Speaker 1: 26:22

I'm not okay with this behavior. This feels disrespectful to me. I don't want to tolerate this. I don't want to be around that. Here is how I want to be treated. Here is how I want to be talked to and really learn to advocate for your truth to a person who is in a position of authority over you. Maybe that is a wound that you never learned to heal is how to talk to someone who is in an authority position in a way where you still advocate for your respect, you still advocate for your truth, you are still able to show up and talk to a person who has a position of authority over you and say, hey, listen, I'm not okay with this. And by cutting this person out of your life, you never learn that skill. You never learn to advocate for that.

Speaker 1: 27:02

And here's what I've learned, because I grew up in an environment where I was taught you don't talk back to authority figures. And so, in jobs, so many times I quit jobs, I left jobs. I left jobs because that boss was rude, that boss was disrespectful, that boss was disrespectful, that boss was toxic. And you know what always ended up happening? I ended up creating work environments in which I had a toxic relationship with my boss over and over, and over and over again, until I learned.

Speaker 1: 27:31

I tried something one time and you know what? The results were messy, they were messy. But I told a boss of mine one time. I said hey, listen, I have a problem with the way that you talk to me. I don't like it when you say this. This is what I think and feel and hear when you say that. And for the first time ever, I had a boss say you know what, let's sit down and talk. The conversation was messy, it was uncomfortable, it didn't really produce the results that I wanted and I ended up, you know, choosing to take a different job.

Speaker 1: 28:07

But here's what happened in the next job, I started noticing that I had the same relationship with my boss and I remembered how I approached the situation with my previous boss and I tried talking about it a little bit differently with the new boss. I started a conversation and I said, hey, listen, I'm having some problems right now with this work environment and I'm having some problems with how I feel about the way that you respond to things that I say to you, to requests that I make, to problems that I bring to you, and I would like to talk about it. And we sat down, we had a meeting about it and, for one of the first times ever in my life, I felt like I had a boss listen and learn something from me, and we actually changed our dynamic. They changed the way that they talked to me, I changed the way that I interpreted the things that they were saying and the way that I responded to the things that they were saying, and we created an ability to communicate clearer with one another, to even though his behavior necessarily has not changed, we had an understanding of what those behaviors meant and a way to talk about it in a different way. That helped me feel seen, heard and understood and helped my boss feel like I was also hearing and understanding what they were communicating to me, and had I just labeled this boss as toxic and left the work, I would have never learned that.

Speaker 1: 29:40

And what I found is that the longer I stayed in that job and had these kind of conversations with that boss, I started learning skills of communication that I didn't think was possible. I started learning to advocate for myself in a way to a boss that I did not think was possible, from myself in a way to a boss that I did not think was possible. I started getting responses from my boss that I never thought was possible. I started feeling respected in a way that I did not think was possible in a corporate environment, and what I learned is that I am able to show up now in corporate environments and hear people talk to me in a certain way, hear people or watch people respond to me in a certain way, and I don't feel threatened by it anymore. I know how to open up a dialogue and get to the bottom of it and create an understanding and a way to communicate between me and that other person in a way in which both of us feel respected, seen, understood, and are able to work with each other, to collaborate with each other, even if we have very different views of life.

Speaker 1: 30:44

And this is what I want to encourage for you all to begin doing in your own life today is, instead of jumping the gun and running away from a circumstance, running away from a person, cutting a person out of your life, leaving a job because of a boss, and how you feel around them, see if you can lean in and start a conversation in a way that you've never done before, express something that is bothering you, that you've never expressed before, doing it in a responsible way of saying, hey, listen when you say that, when you do this behavior right here, this is what I think it means, this is what I think you think, this is what I think you're meaning by that, and I don't like that. And see what happens. See how the person responds to it. Give them the opportunity to understand how they might be interpreted by another person in a way that they did not understand they could be interpreted and you might surprise yourself. And number one, the understanding you can create between you and that other person. And number two, the skills that you will learn of how to advocate for yourself, how to communicate yourself to another person, to communicate your needs to communicate your thoughts and feelings to another person. To communicate your thoughts and feelings to another person, regardless of how they respond to it, you create your own ability to be present in more of life and respond to it in a way that advocates for you and empowers you, and this is why I say simply labeling people as toxic and cutting them out. It only damages your life, your ability to show up in it and respond in an empowered way. That's all I've got for you all today.

Speaker 1: 32:25

I want you to really really reach in deep down and think hard on this. Where in your life are you repeating patterns with people, noticing a pattern of having toxic relationships in your life? Maybe in romantic relationships, maybe in professional relationships, maybe in family relationships, maybe in friendships? Where do you see a pattern of constantly feeling the need to label someone as toxic and remove them from your life, or label them as toxic and being afraid to remove them from your life and just being like, oh shit, I've got to put up with this, I've got to just tolerate this and accept this behavior in my life. I want you to lean into these areas and find the ways where you can learn something about where you are not yet strengthened and skilled in your ability to say hey, listen, I'm going to advocate for myself here. I'm going to show up in an empowered way and respond to this behavior in life in a way that doesn't make it so that I can't be around the behavior, but makes it so that I know how to say what I am and I'm not okay with what I do and what I don't like, and changes my ability to communicate and show up as my full self in circumstances where those behaviors are around and I get to expand my life. I get to expand how much of life I can show up in in an empowered way and continue to move forward and advocate for myself. That's what I want to see more of you all doing.

Speaker 1: 33:56

This toxic cutout culture it has to go. It has to go. I see so many small, small lives out there that their ability to tolerate life is so small they can't stand any amount of adversity, any amount of discomfort, any amount of behavior that they interpret in a way as being toxic. And a lot of times we can change our story about that behavior. A lot of times the other person can change their story about why they're exhibiting that behavior and a lot of times we can create really deep and meaningful connections with people if we just communicate with them in a different way instead of just cutting them out and running away. I love you all. That's all I've got for you all this week. Lean in instead of cutting out. I'll see you all again here next week. Until then, ciao. Enjoyed the content of this podcast, if you did. Please subscribe so that you're one of the first people to know when I release a new episode each week.

Speaker 1: 35:01

If you have any questions, or if you have interest in learning more about the coaching that I do with my clients one-on-one, then just head over to my website at wwwlifecoachsethcom. That's wwwlifecoachsethcom. There you're going to have the ability to reach out to me for questions that you might have or to book your free discovery call with me to discuss what one-on-one coaching with me might be like for you. You can also check out and order your copy of my book to get a taste of what I'm all about as a person and as a coach. I'm so happy that you joined us today and I hope to have you here again next week. So until then, let authenticity be the guide to your most unstoppable and fulfilling journey of life. Thank you.