Bricks of Hope

This week, we welcomed Kourtney Zahn, owner/operator of Brick & Ember Outfitters, who offer chimney, fireplace, and masonry services to Central Indiana! Tune in to hear how Kourtney went from Ministry to Masonry!

Transcript

Welcome to this edition of the Hoel Roofing and Remodeling podcast. Today, my special guest is Kourtney Zahn with Brick and Ember Outfitters. Brick and Ember. There you go. So, Kourtney, take a minute and introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit about your family and your business, please. Yeah. so I started my business in 2011.

we've had a few reiterate or re reiterations of our name, but it's presently Brick and Ember Outfitters. we do fireplace, Chimney, and masonry, restoration work. And, married to my wife Faith for about 22 years and four kids. Bristol, Quinn, Shepherd and story. Our kiddos, 13, 11, and then nine year old twins. Nice. Yeah. So we decided with twins,

You better stop after that. Yeah, I wanted five, but after the twins, it was a deal breaker in about killed us. Like I can only imagine my wife, you know. But I mean, I can imagine, I was there, right. But it was it was challenging. Way harder than starting a business or anything else I've ever done. Like having a three and a five year old.

And then twins was wild. I've got I've got friends, Evan, that we just did a podcast with. He has he has twins. I think they actually turned three today. I seen okay posted that and they so they had a daughter and then set of twins, then another, another kiddo. I'm pretty sure they had another boy. Now I feel.

Yeah, we could list like another set of twins. I think that would have killed us. So we've decided to take care of that. Yep. So, you know what? I try to do sometimes with the podcast is, is bring in, other small businesses. for us, we have a working relationship. you literally just, knocked out a job, for us, helping us with, the dairy twist over in Connersville.

And I know you just did some other work on a house that we did some work on that we referred you guys to. So I guess I just want to talk. Let you kind of share, you know, your story about your business. and you know what I've always noticed is - it always involves family and always involves our kids.

And, you know, just, you know, that kind of stuff. It does. Yeah. Well, if at any point in time you want me to dive into something a little bit deeper, you stop me and let me know. But yeah. So I started the business in 2011 and it was out of necessity. So I never intended to be a business owner.

actually a couple of years prior to starting the business, my wife is like, oh, you should start. So I worked for another company that did similar work. so I was a low level kind of, production supervisor. And my main goal at that point in time was to be, full time pastor. Okay. But I was doing, masonry restoration, supervisory work, full time for a living.

And she's like, oh, you should start your own business. I said, absolutely not. No interest. Well, I decided to we had our we just bought a house. We had our first son that was just born, he's 13 now. This is our business. In 2000, 11 sleeps by about a year old. And I decided to. It's a whole separate podcast.

Talk about stepping away from ministry and then pursuing just a full time job. But at that point in time, I knew I had to do something that could put food on the table and I didn't have a college degree, don't have a college degree, and the only thing that I know is, I said, hypothetically, I'm a pretty darn good brick Mason, because it's not this, I'm not a I'm not a brick mason.

I don't necessarily do the work, but when you see the work being done enough, you could probably be pretty clumsy, but get it done. So that's kind of what I fell back on. Decided to start a fireplace chimney masonry company. So in 2011, I was a part time youth pastor for a church. I stacked fruit at the local fresh market and then started my business.

So, that's how I started in 2011, and it really stemmed from needing to figure out a way to take care of my family. So when I left my job, I was making 14 bucks an hour, and they offered me a production manager position, I think making like 35,000 a year, which really wasn't a big enough jump in the right direction.

So I had to figure it out. And, I thought starting a business was the best way of doing it. The it. No, no, no better way in is head first. Yeah, yeah, yeah. One person told me that they said, Kourtney working for you is kind of like, starting to build an airplane and pushing off the cliff before it's built.

And so which I think is pretty fair assessment, you know, but you don't know what you don't know, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, me and Emily, there's been a couple things pop up this week that like. All right, we got address that likely we need to put that in writing like it's never been in writing before, but it's you know now now it needs to.

So sure. You know, one, let's talk a little bit about full time ministry and that kind of stuff because I feel like, there's, there's just this weird culture vibe thing where, like, you can't talk religion in politics or you're not supposed to. and then there's that weird kind of stigma that you can't be a full time minister.

Like, there's nothing wrong with the way you conduct business or the way I can the business or the way you treat your employees. I mean, like you're a minister, like you could be ministering to people there that will never step foot in a church. Absolutely. Yeah. So, you know, when I was 17 years old, I had a come to Jesus moment.

So I got in trouble with the law, broke into some buildings, stole some stuff, and it was kind of weird because I grew up in a Christian home and I was, for the most part, a pretty good kid. This is one of those moments where you're like, what just happened? But, I actually came off of being a church camp counselor the weeks prior, and then I just found myself, like, just being a stupid kid in a small town, making a bad decision.

Came home from jail that night and just kind of had this. moment to where in that moment, I felt the most loved by God. You know, at my lowest point, felt the most loved by God. So I think in that moment I felt the grace of God where, he loved me despite who I was or what I had done.

And that really changed my life. And so I wanted other people to know about that. So that's where I pursued youth ministry and then pursued pastoral ministry and then planning the church. And that got me all the way up until I was about 30 years old. Okay. And that's where I decided to then shift, step away from formal ministry and then pursue, business while acknowledging that, to your point, there's a lot of opportunity to serve people, by way of being involved in, in your work, in your craft and then being, being a blessing to people, serving people well, treating everybody in a way that they all have value and

deserve respect, which isn't always the case in a small business in the construction world. So treating all those men and women with respect has been something that we've, I think, tried hard to do. And I think for the most part we've done that pretty well. Well, and, you know, I'll never forget, I, when I started in this business, the company I was working for, we had like, a doorknocking blitz in the morning and whatever or whatever, whatever team got the most self-generated leaves.

we got one something. Well, I mean, I'm in sales. I'm competitive. Yeah. So I remember as a neighborhood, Noblesville. Like, I could drive to this house, and, I mean, there's shingles missing everywhere. It's like a 15, 16 year old roof. Like it's a slam dunk for a roofing guy. Like insurance. I'll buy that every day of the week.

You get a customer a new roof for the cost. They're deductible. It's a win win. And so I went up, knocked on the door that nobody answered. And I think I went to hang a flier and somebody pulled in. Yeah, it was the family in. You know, I, I watched him get out and it was the family coming back from a doctor's appointment, and I believe the husband had cancer.

And he was it was bad. And I, I was just, I just, I mean, I completely, like, shut down as a salesperson. And I was just like, I see you have a lot bigger fish to fry. I know, you know, your roof is shot. You know, here's my card. If I can help you out, like, not even pushing you, you know?

Yeah. And, she texted me later that night or the next day and was like, are you a Christian? And I was like, I am. And she was. I could tell there was something way different about you than any other roofing sales rep that's ever knocked my door. And she's like, I'll be honest, I don't have my money for my deductible and I can't are we can't afford our bills to go up anymore.

So I'm just afraid if we file a claim I can't pay my deductible, be, we can't afford a larger premium for our insurance. And, like, I just knew to just. Did they need help? Absolutely. But, you know, and I never heard from a lady again. you know, I don't know what happened in that situation, but it like, I read that and I was like, okay, like I'm doing what is right here.

Like, did I make any money? No. God. yes. You know, so it's just, it it's just it's a different it's a different approach. And, you know, but like I said, I just I feel like some people want to kind of stigmatize, you know. Oh, you know, you're not holy enough. You know, if if you know, you are, you are in full time ministry or, you know, or if you were one time, you can't go back, you know, to the world like, you know, you're going to burn in hell, you know, for doing that kind of thing.

So, yeah, yeah, you know, it's I think it's a really unique opportunity. I, I'd also say it's, it's a doing ministry when you are, when you have the title and you're inside a church. I think in so many ways it simplifies it because everybody expects something good or bad. When you're in a work environment. there's, there's a lot of different ways of looking at things.

there's expectations that are there because there's, you know, there's a service on the line, there's pay on the line, there's, expectation of a customer expectation of employee expectation of myself. While trying to carry yourself in a way that honors all of those things. And it's it's about near impossible to to always treat everybody in the day that.

They would feel serves them the best right is challenging. but I do believe it's what God has called us to you. God doesn't call us to kind of put our faith over here, in our in our business over here, whether we like it or not, it's blended more than what we like. We want to admit. Well, I say, to be a small business owner, you gotta have some kind of crazy faith.

That's absolutely right. It is true. IRS and you know, yeah, supply chain issues like we've dealt with for how many years that we're still blaming on Covid. That's right. You know. Yeah. yeah. So what now and we've had this conversation before. Were you born in were you born around here? Yeah. not well, northern Indiana. Okay.

Okay. So I was born in northern Indiana, a little town called Juanita. Okay. in an area called the region. So what's that like? Michigan city? Okay. Valparaiso. Okay. Okay. Okay, okay. And then I moved to Crawfordsville, Indiana. Okay. That's about 13. Okay. Okay. So. And now you're kind of you're pretty much in Indy, right? Yeah. We've been in Indy for, I don't know, 15 years.

Okay. And then we live on the southeast side of Indy. Right. Okay. Now, is your wife involved much in the business? Is she is not involved. And she she never really has been for the most part. The first year she helped me, figure out my schedule. Yep. So, we went from one customer to, like, 100 customers overnight, and then it never stopped.

which is an interesting story in itself, but she helped me kind of make sense of it. Okay. So, back in the day when there was. I suppose there still is, but, LivingSocial, Groupon. Yeah. Angie's List had a thing called a big deal. Okay. And so I did a big deal with Angie's List, and I did a Groupon on the LivingSocial, and I did this thing called three Hours of Labor for $99.

And I was I wasn't even a business, really. Right. Because I don't have customers. didn't have a truck, didn't have a ladder. So chimney guy, no truck, no ladder. Sorry to business throughout this deal. Woke up the next morning with an inbox full of 100 people that had bought the deal. So literally 100 paying customers. First appointment I take my wife's minivan.

I'm like, this doesn't work. Drain my savings of $300, buy a ladder and go out there and start selling jobs like I've been doing it for ten years. You know, I've never even done sales before. And that jumps out of business. You know, first year we did 6 or $700,000 and, never looked back. You know, once I started that, once I took that first appointment, which is a reality appointment, we just never stopped, right?

Right. So. No. That's me. That's. Yeah. So my wife helped me in that first year, just kind of, routing out my appointments, like, kind of making the most efficient loop on going on the appointments, but. And then we had so we had my son and then we had, my daughter Quincy. And then she pretty much has been a full time mom.

so, for the most part, well, you know, that's such a important piece that that's another thing of a weird culture. My. I feel like I keep going back to weird culture vibes, but it's, you know, and I kind of feel like stay at home moms now as people are finally giving them more respect here in the last 4 or 5, six years, I don't know, I felt like five, ten years ago, maybe it was like, oh, your wife's a stay at home mom.

Sure. Like, you know, you know, my poor wife, that was that's what our agreement was, you know, 13 years ago, got married. And, so fortunately, we've got somebody hired in relieving her some of her duties so she can make sure that she's being a mom also. Yeah, my wife told me. She said if you took what a mom does and you put it in some type of, like a salary, like she should get paid like $180,000 a year.

I'll have someone do the math to you. Do you think about, like, budgeting and, you know, CFO work in, project management and all those things, right. Well, and, I mean, they're just they're so they're so busy and they're so much tougher than we are, like you said, you know, you know, I know how she had twins, like, you know, thank God we don't have to have kids because this world within real quick.

Yeah. I mean, so but I mean, like I said, it's just, you know, it's, it's a lot and it's, you know, the spouse has to support the other one, you know, on, you know, however, however, that is, I mean, our first year in business, our youngest one was a few months old. And so, like, she was a mom of, you know, a newborn.

And then what would have been Reagan would have been two and it would have been four. So, I mean, yeah, we know hell, you know. Yeah. Crazy, crazy times, sister. Crazy. That is so, What other I mean, like, you know, I guess I always ask, like, you know, tell your best customer story. Funny or most kind of pull your hair out kind of thing, or, you know.

Well, I guess it depends who listens to this podcast or what I want to say. Right. But, early in business, we used to have this since we were big on Angie's List. Early on, we used to call Lisa joke about having a K list. Yeah. So Kourtney is my my name is according to sort of K. but we say that customer is blacklisted, you know, which means don't go back there.

Right. Contractors can, can look at the, the list. If they're not there, it should be a customer not to go through. Right. There really shouldn't be a list for that. Yeah. If you're a customer, mind. I'm not talking about you. but, I mean, I don't know. Customers. favorite customer or. Oh, what's the question again?

Just just a unique story. Like something funny or something that you just wanted, you know, to. I mean, like, one of my favorite ones is, was a claim in Greensburg, with, it was a hail damage claim. And this lady, Sue Rickey, I love her to pieces. She still calls me, we just mess with each other all the time.

But she, when her agent actually came out to her adjuster meeting, which I'd never had, and they didn't do that, and that Greensburg got smoked with hail in, like, 2017, like it was the insurance companies. It is pretty much showing up. Right. And checks like, you know, there wasn't much inspection to do and somehow her flip flopped through, ended up on top of her, while the adjuster was there.

And I was like, sir, I think she's trying to create damage or something like that. And in our world, there's a lot of that, unfortunately. And then I'll never forget, she was an IEEE fan, and, her, she had a little, step thing. whatever you call them stepping stones, you know, on her front. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, ma'am, I was like, I told the adjuster.

I was like, we're gonna have to get hazard placement, removal fee on that because, you know, it's I, you and, you know, just something funny, you know, like I said, this. Well, we've all had to have customers that you want to do business with again. I guess maybe we should stay focused on the positive and, you know, a good customer that you want to do business with.

I have a story of, I mean, she's a good customer. She just. It's, Yeah, she has, like, cats. Yeah. So she has a lot cats. So that makes for an interesting situation. things are rusty. That shouldn't be rusty, because cats like to do what they do. But, you know, my salesmen probably have a lot better stories than me, right?

I honestly feel like, with everything that goes on in a in a small business, it's hard for me to lock in on one specific story, right, of a customer. but I do hear a lot from my other team members of situations that happen. so, gosh, I think I'm drawing a blank, you know, without, like, you know, talking poorly of, yeah.

Yeah, I like I said, I don't want a I mean, if you ask if you go in my mind that I sit and repeat on air. So. Yeah, you know, yeah. okay. Then I guess share a success story or success story or a memorable experience with the customer, you know, you know, maybe some kind of give back.

You've done that, you know, got to bless somebody or something like that. You know, one of my, one of the gentlemen that used to work for me, he had a soft heart. Soft, soft, soft. Cut that one.

Soft heart. And he was always wanted me to do something for free. Right, right. he actually been in, pastoral ministry as well in the past. And so there's always situations where we've actually had a situation where, one of the family members had just died and they wanted to, in memory of their dad. They wanted to have this fireplace working.

And so I remember, doing what we could to, get their fireplace working on behalf of their family. And so, you know, we've we fix people's chimneys because they needed any roof, any their chimney fix because it was leaking. And, you know, we've done things for free that way because sometimes you just go to someone's house, you know, I just know it's not in the cards, but they got a real situation, right?

Right. And we've all been in this scenario where, you just ends aren't meeting you, and you need help, and it just is what it is, right. and I think a lot of businesses, it's just you step away from that situation. But when when it's a scenario that you can't do every one of them. But there's been a handful that we've been able to, and it usually stems from one of my salesmen bringing this situation to my attention and saying, hey, can we do something right?

And if and they're like, I won't get paid, this is what can we do? And so there's been a handful of times that we've done that. And that's really highlighting my team. but but really, it, you know, it's good to be able to do that. Yeah. Oh absolutely. Last year we went and helped the Indiana FFA center and to farm and it kind of similar story.

My, my my sales rep called me was like, hey, there's a lot of gutters here. I don't need a commission on this. How can we help them out? Yeah. So I just flipped it into a team building day. Sure. And I just called him and said, what color do you need? And, fortunately, my gutters, he came.

He showed up with him and his helper and, a team in which we had the state FFA officers helping us, our team, and then my two of my gutter crews or two of my gutter subs, labor. We tore down and put about 2600 linear feet of gutters. Downspouts. but I just said, okay, to Ray and his helper.

I was like, you guys, you guys really know what you're doing the best. So I was like, let us do we can do the tear down and not mess that up, you know? And that was, you know, that was a long day. But it was it was it was good. There was I mean, my I even took my kids out of school.

I was like, my kids are going to go watch this. Like you're going to help. Like to me something like that is very important for them to see because and, you know, the worst part about us is there's people we want to help all the time. But we've also got a, an obligation in the bill to pay our bills.

That's right. You know, to pay our help. And you know, it's right. You know. So that's always you know, that's that's always a tricky point because you don't want to become known as the roofer that does everything for free, or the brick company that does everything for. Yeah, we did a home for, habitat for humanity. a couple of years ago.

And I laid the brick wall in the front, got some good pictures, and then my brick mason tore it down. It related. Yeah. It's like we cannot keep that in there. So, I mean, it was pretty good for my one and only time of lane. Brick wall. So what did you do wrong that your brick layer did like?

It's just like, you know, like you just had a little bit of a wave in it, right? And it was a good photo op. Right. But just not that's something that you want to put your name on. That's for sure. So it's always funny because when everybody like everybody thinks that, you know, like some people don't understand, like you're a lot better business person than you are a bricklayer.

Yeah. And, you know, not that you can't be a good bricklayer and a good business person. Sure. However, like, you know, I always say I'm just better at hiring people that are a hell of a lot smarter than me. Yeah. To do what? What needs done. Well, and that's an interesting part of the business early on as well, is that I think are what what we bring to the table is a little bit unique in that some people's value is that the owner knows the craft right, did the craft for years and then started a business based off of that.

I see the value that we bring is that as an owner, I hadn't done the craft, but I've I've brought people that are that were older than me that have done it a lot longer. And then my what I brought to the table was the ability to give a good customer experience, my way of interacting with them from a management standpoint, as well as sales, and then giving our our brick masons just any team member, giving them respect and then letting them know that they have a lot of just intrinsic value because they're a person.

And when people enjoy where they work, when they know that they're, respected and cared for, they give the best work to your customer as well. And so the value that I brought to the table was kind of being the liaison between the two, working with the customer, working with the guys, doing the work. Whereas if I was the one head down doing the work, I always say it's kind of difficult to provide the kind of customer service that I want when it's when I'm required to then step in and do this one task so I could give a better experience, I believe overall to our customers by way of not being the guy, but

being one of the team members that can help with customer experience, team experience, which I think brought, a unique, a unique, approach to business right early on for us because most people grew up that maybe their dad was a brick mason and they grew up doing it, whereas that wasn't the story for me. Dad was actually a roofer, general contractor.

so that that's a unique way of starting a business. Yeah, that's not always the case. Well, and like something that we've ran into, maybe being from Roseville, being in a small town, like early on, people were offended that it wasn't me that came out. Sure. And I was just like, guys, if you want me out, there is going to take me at least three weeks to get up here.

You may have an estimate in six, six weeks. Or if I send a guy out, he'll be out in the day or two and he'll have an estimate within a day or two, you know, of that. So fortunately, people, you know, you know, their their understanding. You're saying kind of a big deal. No, no, no, I'm just a peon.

I'm just here to sell this here to make sure the checks clear. That's right. You know, so you know, you know, make sure you cover. But one thing that I've noticed is like, also with the team is like to make sure they realize that Adam's job in marketing and doing this social media stuff is, is just as important as the roofer putting it on, you know?

And I also want to I also want the team to understand the value and the hard work that our crews do every single freaking day, because, yeah, we could sell a bunch of jobs and, you know, get a bunch of likes on Facebook. But if we don't get them installed, we're not going to be in business for that long.

You know where. Yeah. So that's, that's that's an out and and a balancing act especially I feel like in the trades because sometimes I just feel like sometimes in trades like we get that attitude of like well you know sales reps more important than the production team. No not really. You know so well that's that's an interesting dynamic of business right.

Like sales versus production. Yeah. It's there's no way of getting around it. But if you can create a culture that has a healthy respect for both, and you got to try really hard to make that happen. But that is a hard dynamic. Try being the sales manager and having your wife be the production manager. So it's always a sale.

It's either the sales guys fault or the production guys fault. Yeah, and the buck buck stops with me when it comes to sales. So that's why we hired a guy. Yeah, well, but I mean, you know, and I've worked for other companies that the production and sales genuinely just hated each other. And I've just said it from the get go.

I'm like, guys, that's not going to, you know, that's there has to be a respect for each other and they have to see the value. Like there's no work for you to do if they don't do the right to sell. And it's like and vice versa, right. Like if you don't have the guys doing the work, it's like, what's the point?

So yeah. Yeah. And I mean, fortunately, we've got a good team that, you know, understands that. And you know, what I've learned a lot is just people taking responsibility. Like if the sales rep messes up on finding something or not, you know, not taking a lay picture and realize there's four layers of shingles and one's wood shake, and we get to reinvent the whole house, like, you know, then the morning of like, we're, we're, you know, running to get OSB, you know.

So yeah. But you're not saying that from experience. Sorry. No no no no no I didn't think so. Yeah. We had a job. The last one I remember, it happens. They always doing a job in Tipton. So that was real nice. Yeah. You know that's how it works. The are far away. Yeah. Yeah. And it was like I was like we gotta, we got, we had our picture that.

No I just assume like yeah that's what we get. You know we're assuming. So yeah. What I knew I was gonna have to call off this once, so my, My apologies. what else do you do? you kind of mentioned customer experience, but what else do you do to stand out? You know, in the brick, in your in your market, you know, to attract your ideal customer.

Yeah. Well, we put a, we put a lot of value on when I say customer experience. you know, at the end of the day, it's a lot of our I'm the oldest guy. I'm not the oldest guy. I used to be the oldest guy in the company. Right. So a lot of us are younger. a lot of my salesmen are younger.

And so at the end of the day, we just don't have. We've been doing this for the last 30 years. You know, we just don't have that on our side. But what we do is we we we make up for that by way of caring and being really curious. And so on the sales side of things, we just really do a great job of asking the right questions, helping understand what the customer's problem is and what's really the main motivation to getting that problem fixed.

In a lot of times the problems are obvious, right? Like, you know, for a roofer, oh, like wind damage or the shingles are missing. Right? So for us it's like, oh bricks in your in your landscape bed. So it's kind of obvious on the problem or something is leaking or smoke's coming into my house, but they don't really know all the time like why they want to fix that or what do they want?

The end result to be. It's not always, really clean cut as to like what the actual fixes. Now, there's a lot of different things we can do, because one thing with a chimney is or masonry, it's typically out of sight, out of mind. And so by the time you recognize something is a problem, it's probably been a problem for a long time.

But just now noticing it. And so for us, for us to ask the right questions and to understand like little things, like, are you going to be here for the next 20 years? Did you just buy the house? And is this your lifelong house or have you been here for a handful years? And you're, you know, a home for 3 to 5 years or what is the situation?

All of those types of questions help us kind of craft what is the right repair for our customer. And I think that's a that's a huge value because though I'm not a brick mason, though I've never been the guy that's done the installs on fireplaces, I do know a lot about that. And I've seen it done a lot, and I and I am fairly competent to speak into what we do and to be able to ask the right questions and have our sales team and, just our production team as a whole.

think about what does the customer need? is super helpful, know. And it's easy just as a, as a person who knows how to do something, you can you can just go in there, be like, well, here's your problem. You need to do x, y, and Z right. Well, yeah. But if you would have asked some better questions, maybe you would have learned that that isn't necessarily the thing.

It's helping me. So it's just being curious and not coming in with your preconceived ideas of what they what they want, like asking them questions to understand what it is they want and then kind of crafting that that repair that meets their meets their needs. So when you, when we talk about your business, like, what are your,

I want to say bread and butter. What, what mainly do you focus on? Well, I would say, restoration work on chimneys is a lot of what we do. So when you say restoration, like, is that taking the risk off? Put a new on or so how's that work. So it's anything related to the chimney. So a chimney can have brick on it.

Can have stone on it. It can have siding on it. Okay. if it's a chimney, we take care of it. Okay. And so anything that is any kind of structure that is venting exhaust to a fireplace, we take care of and, and oftentimes everything that's above the roof line, it's just out of sight, out of mind. People don't think about it.

People don't do a good job of having their chimney inspected or swept on a yearly basis. And so you don't know what the problems are. And it's it's kind of like you don't know that you have a roof problem until there's a leak that's inside your home. You don't know you have a chimney problem until there's something that shows up inside your home.

And so I would say our bread and butter or what we do a really good job at is, is determining what is the problem and then what is the right repair. There's a handful of factors, right. Like a right repair has to do with like, well, what is your budget? You know, like if I sell you like what you got to do this.

It's like last night in the car. It's like going to a mechanic and saying, like, I only got enough money for two tires, not four. Right? We'll maybe that's what you need to get down the road. And that's a, that's an option for us. Right. So, helping customers with chimneys. So whether it's, joints that need to be tuck pointed, grinding out mortar, putting new mortar in, replacing individual bricks, or partially tearing down a chimney, rebuilding it, the cap on the top of a chimney, call it a crown.

that's kind of like a roof to your home. It's a roof to the chimney. That is the thing that typically starts all the deterioration below. So if you have a crack or if you have a flat, mortar wash, it's just letting moisture. And it's been doing it from day one. Those are all things that cause problems below.

And so we do a lot of work on that. You know, during the fireplace season when it's, cold outside, we do a lot of work on just making sure your fireplace is functional. So most of our salesmen are all chimney sweep certified. So we're out there sweeping chimneys and, making sure they're clean. And then from that, you do an inspection on the chimney, do an inspection on the inside the flue system, do a lot of repairs there.

Okay. But good old fashioned roof replacement, tuck pointing. That can do a lot of that. Yeah. So you just rebuilt, I guess, a wall and a half for us. and then, Yeah. So then you also just did a job that we did the roof a couple blocks south here. I think it was a chimney, so there was a chimney on it, and then there was a full masonry home.

Okay. And, I mean, I think that house was probably built in the 1900s. We're working on a house right now in Franklin, Indiana. It was built. It was built in late 1800s. So it's a full masonry home. So the the the walls are three, three, rows thick of brick. And so doing a lot of, I think, on the house outside of, Rushville here, I think I had over 5000 joints that we found out.

Put me in order in. Well, rebuilt a front pillar, poured a little foundation to reset the pillar on. And then the one in Franklin. It's a house that's getting 100% remodel. Got it from the inside. Fully restored. I think it's one of the first houses in Franklin. Actually, the family that developed Franklin started, it was one of their homes, but one of the early on.

So it's kind of cool to be part of those, right? Right. so, yeah, thousands of mortar joints grinding it out, putting in mortar and replacing broken brick. Kind of. Yeah. It ain't it is dusty. It ain't pretty. You know, it's kind of built up, you know. But it's what we do. Well, it's funny because when you're working on that one outside of Russellville that we were, we're doing some we did the roof last year.

We're doing some interior stuff now. You're like, yeah, you probably seen the the dust from your office. Yeah, that's a lot. That's a lot of dust. Yep. So, okay. what else can, you know, is there any other way that you serve customers that, you know, whoever's listening to this, you know, can, you know, because, I mean, my my entire antenna, this intent of this is like, get you in front of our customers, like, you know, I want this to eventually, hopefully one day you're like, I remember watching you on that podcast.

And that's why, you know, we called you up. So. Yeah, you know. Yeah, I like talking life. I like talking stories. But, you know that the other day I want it to be worth your time and your investment of, you know, sitting down, you know, so anything else that you want to share with the audience of, you know, work.

I mean, are you guys considered? I mean, are you kind of stay in the path that you're on? Are you looking at, you know, expand in anything new, anything like that? Well, you know, even though we do fireplace, chimney and masonry and it seems like those all go together. I was just talking to one of my salesmen about this, that sometimes you have things in a business that would be a little bit like a loss leader, right?

You do it because it's kind of tied to the other things that you do, and it's necessary. So we we fix this because it's tied to this. And it kind of it's one big package deal. So a fireplace is attached to a chimney. A lot of chimneys have masonry. if you can work on masonry on a chimney, then you can easily work on masonry on the wall of a home or a knee wall in a, at a customer's property or anything like that.

And so, I mean, we're pretty dead set on that, you know, pretty dead set on doing those three things, do those three things really well. And so everything from the functionality of your fireplace and that includes wood stoves, gas inserts, a lot of gas logs, and then just traditional, wood burning fireplaces. In, what area. What's your what's your traditional area that you cover?

So, typically we're just about an hour and a half outside of downtown India. So what we've typically done, we do go a little bit further than that at times. but generally speaking, that's where that's where we go. Okay. So I don't know, half downtown Indy, which I guess is pretty far out there. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, and I know how that ends up because you're an hour and 15 minutes this way with one crew.

Yeah, another cruise an hour and 20 the other way. But if you think about it, even if you're like, you know, if you're in Noblesville, right, and then you're going to like Center Grove, right? That's the equivalent of like going to Ohio, right? Right, right. You know, depending on where you're at. Yeah, we've we've done some work in Ohio.

Right, right. It's it's like, well if you're willing to go here, right, right. Like it's like 20 more minutes. Well and that's like so I grew I was born in Camden, Ohio area, which is pretty much due east of here. So Eaton, Ohio, still got family, still got people that know me over there. And, we've actually done a few jobs over into that area lately, you know, and it's just it's from referrals or, you know, literally I was doing one guy called me and said, hey, will you go, I've got a cousin in Ohio.

Will you go fix his chimney? So think I was like, yeah, that's fine. So I went over there and the guy was going on vacation and I get there and he said he had rotted OSB. We had three layers of shingles on the roof. And I was like, I called him and I said, all right, I feel bad making this phone call while you're on vacation.

You've never met me. But I was like, you need a new roof. And I explained why. He goes, I kind of expected you to tell me that. Like, okay, so I gave him a prize. He signed a contract, never met the guy I had done. His cousin referred me and I had done his house. I done like 3 or 4 family member's houses.

But by this year and I was like, so we go over there, I go over there. I didn't even collect the deposit. And I went over there. The first day the crew was working and half the crew was sick, so they just tore off the back half, did the back half, and I called him. I was like, hey, I just want to give you an update.

we got over here today. They got the back half completely done. I said, crew sick this week or today. So they only did the back half. He's like, well, you know, I'm I'm five minutes from home if you're late. I was like, oh, absolutely. So I'm sitting there talking to him. He pays me. The neighbor pulls in, hey, where did you find this roofer guy at it?

I mean, I'm standing right there and he's like, oh, I said, he's done some work for my family. He's like, can you do mine? And he just had a small like pool house that needs shift and this guy was like in his. And he this guy was in his 60s and he had build it by himself. But he made it like a 1012 or 12, 12.

And after he looked at it, he was like, I'm not touching it. But I said, if we can do it tomorrow, it's 500 bucks. If we come back, it's a thousand. And he's like, why? And I was like, because my guys are literally a 10th of a mile away, you know? And so I get like, you get, you know, you get out there.

I've got a, commercial contact that we do some work over in Dayton on, you know, some apartment complexes and, and it always you do one, one job in an area, right? I agree, you know it. It's just like you find yourself kind of coming back to the area more often. Yep, yep. anything else you want to add?

Any any more wisdom? Gosh, wisdom. No. I mean, we could we could go on. I could go on like a a rant about a handful of things, you know, but yeah. So I guess one thing, if you're a missions minded, what is, is there a particular thing you do as a company, as a give back or like, you know, does your family support this missionary cause, you know, that's that pulls at your heart for sure.

yeah, actually we do. We, I mean, my family, we support a handful of missionaries, but, we've kind of partnered with the business as well, and we've done some support on homes of Hope is a ministry that I love, as well as another organization called ICM. They build churches around the, the world, and so build churches in a lot of, areas where there's not churches or it's, you know, it's small villages.

It's hard to get to. They build churches there and they really get the gospel out to the, the, the locals. but I have a good friend, Cipriano. He builds homes for people in Mexico, and he's a missionary. He's also from, he's also from Mexico. And I've taken my family there a handful of times. We built some houses and we've, so we've paid for that.

And and built houses. And I love doing that. We also have a handful Hispanics that work for us. So I love the fact that we can, serve them here. and they serve our customers. And we're also, going over to Mexico, building homes for families that are it's just amazing. Like the quality of the people, their situation, they're they're very like high spirited people, but yet they're living in I mean, my girls yesterday took a bunch of pallets at our office, and they built a four out of it with tarps.

And as I sit here and think about it, like, that's what they're living in, right? And like, my girls are just having fun, right? And we're building homes for people that are probably less elaborate than the garages that we have or a shed that we have, but it's like a mansion for them. Right? And so to get to be able to do that is awesome.

So now that you say that, literally, we're building a house as we speak and they're out painting it today and yesterday. And I went out there and there's this little Hispanic girl out there painting, and she's got her earbuds in, and you could probably hear if you stepped outside right now like she was singing her little heart out.

And like, I didn't understand the word, but like, I just looked up and I've been sick for four days and I just had a big grin on my face. I'm like, man, here she is freaking just she's so happy right now. And, you know, as, as a culture, we're so depressed and sad and, you know, and we have we have houses for our vehicles like, you know, and, me and my wife, went to Haiti on a mission trip.

I've been twice. She was once in, It was crazy. We tore down a building that had gotten damaged five years before that by an earthquake. And the locals were, like, taking the full blocks from that building and taking them back to add on to their houses. And, you know, and like you said, like they they have so little compared to us, but they're so much happier and, you know, way more content and thankful.

Yeah. It's, I mean, I bring my family, my kids there because it's just hard to grow up in and to not be somewhat entitled. Right. Like, I feel really blessed, you know, in so many ways I get to live the American dream. And, it's not I didn't grow up the way my kids are growing up. but I want them to be somewhat sober minded as to what they have versus what other people have.

And what we have isn't even right. It's not realistic for the majority of and so how to like, how to have a bigger perspective than just like what is being given to us? How do we think broader than that? Right. And I'd love to do a better job at it. I mean, well, it's it's like as as parents, we want to give our kids more than we had.

but I think we're both on the same page where we want. We don't want to give them too much, you know, either. now, do you have any girls? Two girls. Two boys. Okay. Okay. Yeah. And especially for my girls and my boy. I'll make that little sum again. Earn everything. Yeah. And I love them. Don't get me wrong.

but my. Especially my little girls, like, you know, if they want something, all they gotta do is ask daddy. But, you know, and I even feel like. And my wife was trying to say that. Tell the same story. Well, we went to Haiti. Like, we felt like our parents did a good job raising us to to appreciate what we have.

But it's just, you know, our culture shock when you just go there and there's this trash in the streets everywhere and just, you know, yeah. I mean, it's just we're so freaking spoiled, you know, in this country, and, you know, so much, so much opportunity and so wasteful as a country. and, you know, and then again, in my opinion, there's nothing wrong with there's there's nothing wrong with having nice things.

There's nothing wrong with having a nice house, you know, where some people think that, you know, maybe you shouldn't, but I'm just saying, you know, so I think, I think we share a lot of similarities, you know? Yeah. And that. Yeah. How old were your kids? When how how old were the youngest ones when you went when you took on the phone?

Actually, my two youngest ones haven't gone. Okay, okay. my son has gone three times. My daughter is gone twice. My older daughter has gone twice. My wife actually hasn't gone. Okay, so, But I think I've gone 3 or 4 times. Okay. So it's, it's one of my favorite things to do, right? To be honest. So do you have another trip planned?

So we don't have a trip plan? We've been kind of on the fence as to whether or not we should go this year. Okay. We haven't kind of made the decision yet. So when do you know? Yeah. Is there a certain time of the year you go, so what we have got, I have, family that lives in Denver, Colorado.

Okay. We have went with their church a handful of times. Okay. And so they typically go in November. Okay. So we've always gone in November, but one of the, Paulie who works with me, him and his family are going in June. Okay. they built a house last year, and they're going as a family, this year in June together.

So what church? How in November? What church? Greenwood. Christ. Greenwood community church. Okay. Okay. Okay. Greenwood in Denver. Colorado. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Not in there. Okay. Yeah, I was just I was just curious. There's a church out here called Flat Irons that I listen to some other podcast, and I was going to be like, no freaking way.

If that happens to be the same one. Yeah, that'd be cool. I was just hoping for a better story. Yeah.

But all right, well, we appreciate your time coming in here. is there anything else you want to add to, to the audience? Any any words of advice, anything like that? I don't think so. You know, if you're listening, we obviously appreciate customers business, you know, appreciate it. Guys like yourself that refer people to us and, you know, we have B2B business partners is awesome.

Yep. So I'm really thankful for that. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. Just, want to thank you for tuning in to this episode of the Hoel roofing remodeling podcast. And, if Kourtney can help you out with anything, please reach out to him. I believe he's helped us with 2 or 3 projects in house. And then, like I said, we referred them to several that I know.

So it's always it's always fun for me to pull up and see our sign in the yard and your guys's side. So, thank you guys, and have a great day. Thank you.