Episode 02 - Dr. Kwane Stewart aka The Street Vet

Dr. Kwane Stewart has been a practicing veterinarian for over 20 years, and he has worked in both private practice as well as public municipal animal shelters. But it wasn’t until he became The Street Vet that he felt like his purpose in life became clear. On this episode of the PetSpace Podcast, Dr. Kwane talks with us about the emotional toll of working in animal welfare, the importance of the human-animal bond, and how his foundation, Project Street Vet, is offering a new way forward for veterinarians, the unhoused, and their pets.

You can find Dr. Kwane Stewart on Instagram and Twitter; learn more about his work and foundation at ProjectStreetVet.org

The Petspace Podcast is:
Hosted by Catie Voglio,
Recorded & Edited by Roger Gomez,
Produced by Cameron Kell,
To learn more about Wallis Annenberg Petspace visit us at our website annenbergpetspace.org

Transcript

Host Intro

Welcome to the PetSpace Podcast. I’m Catie Voglio, and today we’re joined by Dr. Kwane Stewart, aka The Street Vet. Over a decade ago, Dr. Kwane began walking the streets to provide free veterinary care to the pets of people without housing, armed with nothing more than the supplies he can fit into a simple backpack. 

Dr. Kwane then founded Project Street Vet, a non-profit that has helped to expand his work, and mobilize other veterinarians to aid the unhoused population and ensure they can care for what they love most: their pets.

On today’s episode, we talk about the emotional toll of working at animal shelters, how Dr. Kwane plans to grow Project Street Vet, and why the love of an animal should never be limited by socioeconomic restraints.

INTERVIEW

Catie

Dr. Kwane, thank you so much for joining us today. 

Dr. Kwane

Thank you, I'm so happy to be here.

Catie

You have rolled up, and you're rolling back to San Diego in a little bit. But what we really want to dive into is a little bit about how you got started before you were known as the Street Vet, and also your expanding project, and all the people and pets that you're helping along the way. So I'm curious to know, did you grow up with animals? Were you that person that wanted to be a veterinarian their whole life?

Dr. Kwane

Yes. And I think that probably rings true for most veterinarians. 

Catie

Yeah.

Dr. Kwane

I think there's something about this industry and the emotion that's tied up in it, and the kind of people that seek it, you're probably just born that way, right? It's just a matter of being in the right environment, being around animals, which I was, to answer your question, always. All kinds of animals. And yeah, I think, you know, I don't know if I'm a believer in destiny, but I think there is something about it that pulls certain people in.

Catie

A little kismet, it was there for you. 

Dr. Kwane

Mmhmm.

Catie

So I know that in your past, you didn't start necessarily out helping homeless animals in the shelter system, you started off in private practice. How did that go? How did you feel about private practice?

Dr. Kwane

I was your everyday, ordinary veterinarian out of school, and every vet has their own little different journey. But again, I think one thing we all have in common is, we think we're gonna go out and change the world. *laughs*

Catie 

Yeah.

Dr. Kwane

We think we're gonna go out, and save, and treat, and...it's what drives us through vet school. And there's a lot of, you know, getting through veterinary school and, and even prior to, going back to high school, and just, you know, the academic grind--

Catie

Making it into vet school is hard. 

Dr. Kwane

Yeah, getting there, getting through, and then you're out, and...I don't know, you feel brand new, and I'm, like, just bright eyed, “I'm gonna go out and do it.” And so what a lot of new vets will do is find themselves bouncing sort of from area to area, or, you know, emergency to private practice.

Catie

Did you feel called to a specific specialty at all? Or you were like, “I'm just gonna figure this out”?

Dr. Kwane

Yeah, I knew I was going to do companion animals. So, I did grow up around horses, and my mom had an actual, working, beef cattle ranch for awhile. So I've been around large animals and equine and small, but I always knew I wanted to be a small animal vet: dogs and cats.

Catie

Where did you grow up with that much land? With beef cattle!

Dr. Kwane

New Mexico. 

Catie

Okay.

Dr. Kwane

Yeah, so there's plenty of...

Catie

Plenty of space.

Dr. Kwane

Desert. Nothing. *laughs* So, I graduated from Colorado State in 1997. I packed up my old junky Mustang, and knew that I wanted to be near the water. I grew up in the High Desert my whole life, I wanted to be near a beach and practice vet medicine. That was my dream for as long as I can remember. So day one after graduation, me in the Mustang, drive straight here to San Diego without a job, find a job, and then it just begins and...really that first few years are like the most magical years of my life.

Catie

It's that “ignorance is bliss” kind of thing, where you're just, everything is new, and...

Dr. Kwane

It's new and fresh – “I have this degree I've been working my whole life for, I'm this young doctor.” You carry that with pride.

Catie 

Yeah. 

Dr. Kwane

And yeah, I just jumped in. And I was an associate, I did some emergency critical care, regular day practice. And like I said, you just, you find your groove...I didn't know, no, you get into this sometimes, not knowing exactly where you're gonna wind up or, like, I had no idea I was ever going to do something like this, ever. It just wasn't even...I didn't even know it was a thing. 

Catie

It probably wasn't a thing back then. 

Dr. Kwane

Mm, maybe not. I imagine somebody was out there, you know, with a big heart, helping...

Catie

Thinking of ways to help, or helping, probably behind the scenes. It's before everyone had a phone in their hand to capture every little thing you do. So at what point in private practice were you're like, “You know, this isn't…” the ‘ignorance is bliss’ kind of wore off a little and you were like, "There has to be a little more out there. There has to be a new step to this journey."

Dr. Kwane

I did something at the time...soon after making the decision, which in retrospect was, I felt was stupid, and I regretted it. Yeah, we've all been there, right? I said, “I'm gonna be a shelter vet. I want to try shelter medicine.”

Catie

Gritty. 

Dr. Kwane

Yeah. Well, I had no idea.

Catie

Yeah. 

Dr. Kwane

Unless you've done it -- again, unless you've done it, you have...you really just, you're, again, the ignorance thing. I said, "I'm gonna take on a new challenge." There was this area of Northern California, Central California, Modesto. It's rural, lot of farming, and they were seeking a...it was titled County Veterinarian. That's just a glory title for "shelter vet."

Catie

Yeah.

Dr. Kwane

So you can say, "I'm the county veterinarian."

Catie

Sounds big. That's big picture. 

Dr. Kwane

Yeah.

Catie 

You're, like, big picture.

Dr. Kwane

Like “I'm big stuff, I'm gonna go up and take this job.” I got hired on, and you're running basically an entire shelter system for a county. Mind you, I'd just come from San Diego, where I could like smell the ocean water, I had clients who could pay for anything and everything that you recommended...and now I find myself in this, I call it a war zone, because I stepped into shelter work right during the recession. 2007 was my first year. The recession happened months...very soon after...and so not only was I getting a dose of shelter medicine, but I was getting shelter medicine at the worst possible time. And probably one of the worst areas of the state. 

This was ground zero for the recession. So high unemployment, and theft, and...just, low education, just everything. The economy was horrible. People were losing their homes, and when people suffer, their pets suffer. So there were...people were just dumping off their animals, and I worked at a municipality. And I want people to understand the difference between a municipal shelter, and a rescue or no-kill shelter. 

Catie

It's very important, yeah.

Dr. Kwane

There's an important distinction here. At a municipality, I don't have the choice of telling someone at my doorstep, "You can't leave your dog." Those are just county rules. They can, without explanation or reason, they can hand the leash over and walk away. They don't have to tell me why they're doing it.

Catie

Yeah. It's your job to take it. That's what your...that's what the rules are.

Dr. Kwane

That's what the county does. 

Catie

Yeah.

Dr. Kwane

We're using taxpayer money to help aid animals in that county. And it can look like a lot of different things. But, so...boxes of kittens were being dropped off, dozens of animals at our doorstep.

Catie

We have a running joke here. Those that have worked in municipal shelters, or open-intake shelters -- anytime you see a box anywhere, any cardboard box, you're like, "Oh, gosh, I really..." Do you still feel that? Sometimes you're like, “I really hope there's not a litter of kittens in that box.”

Dr. Kwane

Yeah. There's always, uh, there's anxiety. It was probably more for me a little bit of PTSD, because...it was awful. By 10am on many mornings, we were euthanizing 60 pets. 

Catie

Wild.

Dr. Kwane

A lot of them healthy. And if you close your eyes and you think on that for a second. My staff and I are directed to end the life of 60 cats and dogs every, you know give or take, especially during the spring....

Catie

Yeah.

Dr. Kwane

Every day. 

Catie

And like you said they're healthy. It's not...they're not suffering. 

Dr. Kwane

No. No, it's for space, it's for resources. And again, I don't have the option of saying, "No, I'm not taking your pet." A no-kill shelter does, and I'm not...no-kill shelters have their place. I love them, and they're bringing more awareness to this plight. But, you know, I was sort of castigated as this death dealer, right? That I'm just out to euthanize pets.

Catie

It's an image a lot of shelters have to deal with, unfortunately, you know, they are these open-intake, municipal shelters. And most of them are striving for a no-kill philosophy, or a no-kill way of doing their very hard work. But, you know, they're cast in the community as "the kill shelter," and not the place to bring your pet. And unfortunately, that's actually where you're supposed to bring your pet, right? That's where you're told, "We will take it in." So it's such a catch-22, for especially a person who's supposed to be providing healthcare to a pet...to put someone in that position.

Dr. Kwane

And especially a veterinarian. I do talk about this a little bit more, because I'm trying to address the high suicide rate in my profession. We have the highest suicide rate, statistically, of any white-collar profession. And so you think about that – why is that? And I don't want to go on too far a tangent, but, you know...going back to what I said, I think people who seek out the veterinary profession are wired a little different. I think we're a little more emotional, a little more empathetic. And you take this sensitive person and you tell them, "On any given day, you're going to destroy a patient that you've been treating. Not once, but over and over. You're going to deal with, you know, trauma cases, you're going to deal with those neglect cases, those, you know...the dog has been tied up to a tree, and his skin is growing over the collar, and the inhumanity that people show towards animals...when all you wanted to do your whole life was to save them. And you're gonna have to deal with this emotion on a daily basis. 

Catie

And compartmentalize it. 

Dr. Kwane

And do it for decades, and think you're somehow not going to be affected by that. And it's hard. And so, when I think about my peers and colleagues, you know, struggling with depression and other issues at certain points in their career, it makes sense, because I've been there myself.

Catie

Yeah, it's not surprising. And even in private practice, my friends that are vets in private practice outside of sheltering, it's, “How do you tell someone that if they can't afford to treat their animal, you know, ‘I can't do anything for you’?” I think all of those things compounded, all of the different types of veterinarians to compound it, it is just almost an impossible job sometimes.

Dr. Kwane

It feels that way.

Catie

Yeah *laughs*

Dr. Kwane

There were days, and certainly going back to the shelter, I had many of those days. 

Catie

Yeah.

Dr. Kwane

So, I was probably three years in, and this is really the moment the Street Vet was born. I was about three years into the shelter work, and I was finding myself in this...you know, when you've never been depressed before, you don't really know what it is. You think, "I'm just struggling with work," or, "I've had a bad day," but your bad days...

Catie

They all go together.

Dr. Kwane

Yeah, they start running together at a higher clip, and you start feeling or realizing something's wrong. And I found myself in that place, and I knew it was because of work.

Catie

How could it not be, honestly? How could it just not be, when that's what you're dealing with day after day after day?

Dr. Kwane

And if you're dealing, you know, as we all know, if you're dealing with issues at work – you have a challenging job, but you're dealing with any personal, home-life problems: divorce, separation, whatever, what have you – I mean, you find yourself sinking fast and furious, and...

Catie

Straight to the bottom, honestly. *laughs

Dr. Kwane

Stone attached to your ankle, you can sink right away. And I did. So, I remember thinking about just quitting being a vet altogether. There was a moment about three years in the shelter, and in particular, on this one day, I had to pull myself out of bed to try to go to work, and I was on my way, and I normally stop at a 7-11 for gas or coffee. And...I sat there, parked for a moment, said, "I don't think I can go into work. I just don't think I can do it." And not only did I want to...this is the sad part. I not only wanted to quit the profession altogether, or quit the shelter, I just wanted to get away from the profession altogether.

Catie

You needed a breather.

Dr. Kwane

I didn't want to be a vet, I wanted to like go be a fitness trainer or something, just run off and go to a different country and work on a beach, like, cocktail and serve people drinks. I just wanted nothing to do with it. And I was coming out of 7-11, there was this unhoused gentleman sitting outside, like you'll sort of typically see them tucked away in a corner, and he had a dog. And I just remember spotting a skin issue with the dog, stepping over...and I'll tell you, for anyone who has a dog and knows anything about fleas and dogs -- if you've ever had a flea issue with your dog that you just can't get rid of...I'm telling you, fleas can absolutely destroy a dog's skin.

Catie

Yeah.

Dr. Kwane 

You think these little innocent creatures, just running around in their fur...

Catie

They're gnarly. 

Dr. Kwane

Oh, they are. They're...these things have evolved to do some wicked things, you know, on a mammal's skin. And this dog just...it looked like a burn victim, on its hind end. It had no hair, the skin was red and bumpy, it was infected, the dog was miserable and scratching, the gentleman was miserable, too. And I said, "I think I know what's going on," I announced who I am, I said, "My name is Kwane Stewart, I'm a vet, I work here for the county. I'll be back with something tomorrow that I think will work, if you're here." And he was, returned the next day. It was $3 out of my pocket, and five minutes of my time...

Catie

Seemed feasible.

Dr. Kwane

Treated the dog. And then I returned 10 days later, give or take, saw the same dog and it was transformed. The hair was coming back, the dog was wagging his tail, the skin was healing beautifully. And the man sitting in the same spot looked up at me with tears in his eyes, and he just said, "Thank you. Thank you for not ignoring me." And that was the moment for me. 

Catie

That was the lightbulb. 

Dr. Kwane

It was!

Catie

Yeah.

Dr. Kwane 

Something went off, and I said to myself, "I'm gonna get back to saving animals on my terms," when I needed it most...for me. And I'm going to do it for passion, not for pay. And I just started packing a bag.

Catie

And that was that!

Dr. Kwane

The rest is history. *laughs*

Catie

So that was obviously the first person and pet you helped. Then, how did you develop a plan around it? Obviously you weren't like, "You know what, I'm just gonna go take a stroll down Skid Row." Or were you? Were you like, "yep, Skid Row, that's where I'm headed"?

Dr. Kwane

I didn't even know much about Skid Row. 

Catie

Yeah.

Dr. Kwane

Like so many of us. I mean, there are people in this very city right here, who have lived here most of their lives who have never actually driven through Skid Row. So Skid Row was not on my radar. And again, I was in Northern California at the time. And I just started doing the work locally. And then I ended up moving down to Southern California to...after my tenure at the shelter, I did do something completely different, but still within my profession – I became a safety monitor for animals on film sets.

Catie

Oh, yeah. So that's a little lower pressure, I would assume.

Dr. Kwane

It's a little lighter, I'm on movie sets, with movie animals, and...

Catie

Well-trained, cared for...

Dr. Kwane

Exactly, yep, Cadillac care, and I'm just there to make sure they're safe, and, getting appropriate welfare, and it was easy and it was simple. And it was a breather.

Catie

A recharge! I'm sure you needed your battery to be recharged.

Dr. Kwane

And it worked, and it did. But while I was down here, and the work was mostly here in Hollywood, I started...that's when the Skid Row, and, you know, Venice Beach and some of these highly-populated areas with the unhoused, I started seeking. 

Catie

Yeah, and...I think people would be surprised at how many people who are unhoused have animals.

Dr. Kwane

I...I was conflicted, myself, a little bit, while I was helping that man and that dog. 

Catie

Mmhmm.

Dr. Kwane

Only because I was still resting on some of my silly prejudgments I had about the homeless. Regrettably. I, you know, you see an able-bodied guy on a street corner shaking a can, and your first thought is, "You can get a job, you should be working."

Catie

"Go get to work."

Dr. Kwane

Yeah, "get to work." But I've realized in my time that that story is not always that simple. And it's not my place to tell their story for them. I see a human being now that is in a place of need, they have a pet, and as you pointed out – and I've learned this in spades – this pet is the most important, precious thing to them, in most cases; their lifeline, really.

Catie

Yeah. 

Dr. Kwane

It gets them up in the morning, gives them purpose and hope, companionship 24/7, the things they're just not receiving anymore. 

Catie

Yeah.

Dr. Kwane

It's all wrapped up in this little four legged creature.

Catie

We talk a lot about human-animal bond, and I think that's actually one of the prime examples of a human-animal bond -- these two beings keeping each other, you know, going. Going every single day, when most of their days are probably, you know, they only wish that our worst days were their worst days, kind of thing, so.

Dr. Kwane

Yep, it's true. And I think once I got out of my own way, I just found myself wanting to find anybody with a pet. I didn't care what...I was there for the pet, right? And sure, I come across people that are obvious substance-abuse cases, or maybe even selling and dealing, I don't know. But again, I'm not there to judge them. I'm there to help them, and again, help their pet, which I know is, in a lot of cases, keeping them afloat. So I step in, that's what I do, and I just get to work. And people ask, "Well, what is it like when you first approach someone?"

Catie

Yeah, did you find like a lot of resistance? I know, sometimes in those communities, they're wary of outsiders. You probably did not look like you were, you know, living in their community. How did you kind of overcome that hurdle of them trusting you?

Dr. Kwane

I realized that wearing...maybe it looked funny, I'm out walking around in the middle of the street, but wearing a scrub top...

Catie

Oh okay.

Dr. Kwane

With my name on it, and looking somewhat the part, and I carry a bag, like, you know, it houses all my medical supplies. I just found going out, and then, you know, from afar, maybe six feet from someone, if I see they have a pet, like I did that very first day, it's...it's not that hard. I don't overthink it, I don't have a problem approaching people, I get that from my dad, who will talk to anybody at any time. He's that guy, if you're at the gas station and you're pumping gas, and he's right next to you--

Catie

All of a sudden you've got the life story. *laughs*

Dr. Kwane

*laughs'* He'll introduce himself, and, "How are you doing today?" And I've been seeing that since I was five. So approaching people has never been an issue, I just do it respectfully, and let them know who I am and say, "I see you have a pet." I walk the area and I give care, free medical care to people needing help.

Catie

I'm sure it's a vibe, too; I feel like people who have a pet that they love that much – and obviously that community, if they have a pet, they love it that much – can probably feel that you're not coming for any other reason. And, like you said, the scrub top helps, but when you encounter another pet-owner, or you know, just animal person, I think animal people have their own...

Dr. Kwane

They have their energy, they probably, they can probably read it. You know, this is going to age me, but the original Predator back in the 80s? And you know, he had those infrared, you know, the heat signature? 

Catie

Yeah.

Dr. Kwane

I think animal people are like that. They are wearing, like, special goggles where they can see,  like, “That's an animal person.”

Catie

Yeah. 

Dr. Kwane

Or you can feel it or read it or something. And you're right, I think they feel that, and as soon as they know I'm there for legitimate reasons, I just get down to one knee, I take out my stethoscope, I start checking the heart, and it's just like any normal exam, like I've done 10,000 times in a clinic.

Catie

Have you ever felt unsure about any of the situations you found yourself in? Or do you, do you feel like you establish that kind of level with them when you first want to go help?

Dr. Kwane

It's very rare that I feel that way at any moment with somebody I'm helping. But again, for those that don't understand what Skid Row is like, it's like a refugee camp, in the middle of one of the nicest cities in the world, which is a strange feeling. It's a bizarre feeling, right? There are cars without tires, that are propped up, there are people that are like burning fires and cooking their food...like nearly in the middle of the street.

Catie

I'm new to LA, within the past year or so, and this is something that's blown my mind, is that you could have the ZIP Code of 90210. And so could the man in the van down the street. So it is this really wild juxtaposition where you probably have a $25,000 French Bulldog within 10 feet of someone who genuinely is just all about their animal, but it's probably not worth $25,000, and they are struggling to take care of it. 

Dr. Kwane

Yeah, that's it, all the time. And there's a huge concentration of that in Skid Row. And that's why I visit so often. There's estimates say that about 15 to 20% of the unhoused have a pet. And so there's thousands of people that live in the borders of Skid Row, so you just do the math, there's pets everywhere. There's no shortage of clients in Skid Row.

Catie

I guess my question is, how could you possibly service all those clients? Obviously not by yourself, you have a team. How do you build this team? And, you know, it's not easy work that you're doing. Like you said, it's not the people you're trying to help that you're worried about, it can be disconcerting at times...how do you build a team around that? How do you find people that have that passion that you obviously have?

Dr. Kwane

They find me actually.

Catie

Oh, okay, great.

Dr. Kwane

Yeah, I haven't had to do much advertising in the Yellow Pages. They just...I just aged myself again.

Catie

It's like those animal people, they have that radar. *laughs*

Dr. Kwane

They do, and, you know, like you touched on earlier with the advent of social media...it's right there. People reach out all the time through our website, or DM me and just say, "I want to do what you do." 

Catie

Yeah. 

Dr. Kwane

And it's not hard. Like I said, we don't have to overthink it. They're just...and what's funny is, I'll talk to other vets who say, "I've just seen what you've been doing, and I don't know how to do it or get started, can you give me any guidance?" And I give the example -- I was a collegiate track runner. And, you know, I feel like when you get a little bit older, everyone sets a goal of running a marathon?

Catie

Sure.

Dr. Kwane

Or doing something like that, it’s on the bucket list.

Catie

Yeah, it's like the middle-age bucket list, yeah. *laughs*

Dr. Kwane

Yeah, “I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna.” And as you're getting ready to train for that, what I’ve found is, people get paralyzed with the, "How do I actually start training," right? 

Catie

26.5 is a big number.

Dr. Kwane

Right! They go out and they get the shoes and the gear and the sunglasses, and they're all decked out...but they, like, "What do I do? What kind of program do I start?" And I was like, you know, a coach of mine just said, "Just go out and start running." *laughs* 

Catie

One foot in front of the other. 

Dr. Kwane

Yeah! Just go out the door, don't think about it, and just start running. That starts your training, and it's not that much different with this. If you're a veterinarian, or you've been in the field, you know how to help people. I just tell them, you know, pack some essentials, go out and start with one person and one pet.

Catie

I mean, one dose of flea medication changed someone's life, so I think that's, you know, a really incredible example of that. And I know some of the animals are in need of more than a small dose of flea medication. How do you mitigate the animals that actually need surgical or specialty help? Or can you help them? You know, there's limits to what you can do as the Street Vet. I mean, probably not as many limits now as there were when you first got started, but how do you assess and help with that?

Dr. Kwane

You'll probably find this surprising, but I probably can address or treat about 80%...

Catie

Oh, that's...

Dr. Kwane

...of the dogs and cats I encounter, out of that bag. 

Catie

That's amazing. 

Dr. Kwane

Yeah, and it just consists of basic stuff, a lot of preventative care, vaccines, deworming antibiotics for certain conditions. In California, we see a lot of skin and allergy issues with dogs. So I see a lot of ear infections, skin issues, fleas...yeah, mange...and so, I can do all that out of a bag. 

Catie

Yeah. 

Dr. Kwane

So that is, like, a good swath of everything I see. And then for the rest, yes, you're right. I come across dogs that have tumors, or they have decaying teeth, you know, it's a 12 year old Chihuahua that needs to get in, it's suffering, it needs those teeth addressed. And so for anesthetic procedures, I refer them into a hospital, it’s usually nearby, so they don't have to travel far. And they're just seen as any other client, and the charity pays for it.

Catie

So I'd love to talk more....now that this is a charity, now you are a nonprofit, it's the Street Vet Project. So can you tell us a little bit more about how that's helping you expand services and building into a bigger picture project?

Dr. Kwane

Yeah, well, I never...*laughs* I never thought I'd be here, then I never thought I'd be *here* here. And this is funny, I did this work, so...from that 7-11 moment, which was around 2011, give or take? For seven years after that, I didn't tell anybody what I was doing. I didn't talk about it, it wasn't something I'd share at a dinner party, for example. I did it in secrecy.

Catie

Do you think there was a reason? Did you have a reason? I mean, you don't have to tell us, but, do you think you had a reason for that? Or that was part of the burnout and having to feel like...you were connecting again and saving lives again? Or doing something good again?

Dr. Kwane

I've given this thought, I don't know exactly. I didn't want...you know, what's funny is, I think part of it is, I didn't want to be judged, myself, for what I was doing. I didn't want anybody to discourage me, or question that I was giving my time and money to this population of people, and hear what was going...you know, the same voice that was in my head, years before that, like, "These people shouldn't have pets. Why are you helping them?" Or, "Why are you giving your time?" Or, you know, "Why aren't you putting that money towards your kids' college tuition?” Or something. I just didn't want those questions. I needed this, it was healing, I knew I was doing something...

Catie

It was a genuine...

Dr. Kwane

I was doing something good, and I wasn't there for attention. I just didn't want to talk. I didn't want to...it was like...

Catie

It was your own thing! 

Dr. Kwane

My little quiet crusade. And so, I kept it to myself for about six, seven years, until I finally shared it with, I was on a movie set of all things, and shared it with a producer, and then he decided to turn that into a reality show, a docu-series called The Street Vet, and then it went on from there. And finally told my brother, and he's like, we have a...he's on the other side of the curtain, by the way, he came with me today--

Catie

Shout out to Ian!

Dr. Kwane

Yeah, shout out to Ian, who helps me run the charity, we do it together. And he...like I said, from New Mexico, he's still home in New Mexico, he flies out to Southern Cal regularly, and we go to Skid Row and walk these areas. And yeah, so, going back to what you're asking, I never envisioned being here. But now that I'm here, I get to dream a little bit. And now I do, I see the mission spreading – so we have Street Vet teams, they call themselves Street Vet disciples sometimes, which is like...just warms, like, "ah," that's like, "Yeah, this is my baby. And you guys are like, you're really getting into it."

Catie

Well, it takes what you kept as a secret for seven years, that really, from what it sounds like, fueled your soul again...[with] how taxing mentally, the veterinary profession can be, they probably are feeling what you felt for that seven years, but you gave them the access to do it, or the reason to do it, or you are the marathon coach! You're giving them that push to get running, you're doing it!

Dr. Kwane

Right, like you said, once they decided they want to run the marathon, I'm just there as a little simple guy to say, “Well, then just get out and run.”

Catie

Doable. 

Dr. Kwane

Yeah, this is how I ran. This is what I did. 

Catie

Yeah. 

Dr. Kwane

And it's actually pretty simple. It's just, if the interest and the passion is there, and obviously if they're reaching out to me, that's why I said I don't have to advertise or go seek them – the whole point is they really seek me. 

Catie

So where are these teams popping up now? 

Dr. Kwane

We have them in Orlando, Washington, DC, I have, besides myself, I have two other teams in LA. Because the need is just so huge. I'm in San Diego, I'm based in San Diego. Really any of the beach cities, as you'll find in California, because there's a lot of tourist traffic, and it's easy to panhandle and access services. It's just the way it is, so I can go to just about any beach city up and down Southern Cal and find people that need help. So yeah, San Francisco is next, and Sacramento, so...and really this has just happened in the past eight months with the help of our title sponsor, Fetch Pet Insurance, and together, they've devoted resources. And now it's taken off.

Catie

It's not coming out of your pocket anymore. 

Dr. Kwane

No, it was, it was for a long time. 

Catie 

That must feel good! *laughs*

Dr. Kwane 

Yeah, I did my part, the college tuition suffered a little bit. I was still paying off my own student loans. 

Catie

Sure. 

Dr. Kwane

I mean, veterinarians carry their debt for...

Catie  

For a while. 

Dr. Kwane

Yeah, a long time. In my case, I won't say how long, but it's a long time. But I knew I could set aside just a small portion of my salary that I could do without and I was still comfortable. I don't need much to...you know, as my dad says, like, “If you're just a guy, just kind of getting by, you can…”

Catie

You'll be fine. *laughs*

Dr. Kwane

*laughs* You can live in a tree, he said that the other day, every time it's something different. You can live in a car, or you can live in a...cardboard box.

Catie

Sure!

Dr. Kwane

I can live in a tree.

Catie

Yep. If it makes you happy, you could live wherever you want.

Dr. Kwane

Right! I don't need much to get by. So yeah, and I do have to give some credit to our parents because they did instill in my brother and I this belief that we need to give back. This philosophy that we have an obligation to give back, beyond our normal job, beyond what is paying us. It's important – 

Catie

To be of service.

Dr. Kwane

Yes, to be a part of society, to give back, to recognize where there is a need, and then to offer your help. And in my case, to get out of my own way and my own preconceptions about this issue, and give help. And, you know, like I said, I'm not directly helping the person. But I'm helping the person indirectly in probably the best way possible. I am giving care to that pet, and it's keeping them together. 

Catie

To go back to something you said earlier, for the people that don't think that people who are experiencing homelessness or housing vulnerability should have pets. How do you answer people like that? I'm always curious, because I think, you know, we were talking earlier – after spending some time working in shelters, you do learn that people love their pets. And as many are surrendered for bad reasons, there's people on the other side of the desk crying, because they don't want to give their pet up, or these people obviously have very little in life, but they're making it work, they're putting all of their effort into these pets. How do you deal with people who are just like, "They shouldn't even have them in the first place"?

Dr. Kwane

Yeah, why don't we roleplay? We've just stepped into an elevator, you know what I do, and you look at me and you say, with your semi-judgmental question, you would say to me, what?

Catie

"Those people should never have a pet."

Dr. Kwane

I would say, "You need to step off the elevator, ma'am, you're disrupting my good energy." 

Catie

*laughs* Yeah! 

Dr. Kwane

No, what I would say, and...

Catie

Well, that's true. Yes that. I think that is a good answer. *laughs*

Dr. Kwane

*laughs* You know, in that person, that question, I see myself before I started doing the work. And I was just, I was a little naive. And it's taken me a long time to really understand, I think, to really grasp...why this need is there, why they're so important to each other. And I would just start by asking you a question. I would ask you, "Do you have a dog?" And if you say yes, I would say, "How much time a day do you spend with your dog?" Or, "Do you have a job?"

Catie

*laughs* I would say, “Not enough.”

Dr. Kwane

How many hours are you away from your dog? 

Catie

At least eight.

Dr. Kwane

At least eight. 

Catie

Yeah. 

Dr. Kwane

And I would say, "Well, I've met people, unhoused, and yes, they're short on resources, but they spend every waking minute with their dog. Their dog is the most important thing to him." There's not many average, ordinary -- if we want to call ourselves that -- pet parents that can claim that. 

Catie

Yeah, probably very few, actually.

Dr. Kwane

Very few.

Catie

Almost none.

Dr. Kwane

So in that respect, these unhoused can actually teach us something. There is a devotion, and a commitment to their pet that is on a very different level. I've seen it play out over and over again, they will pass up housing, transitional housing, permanent housing in some cases, if that service will not accept their pet. And how many of us can *say that* say that? I'm sure, we were talking about this before we got on, right? People will say, "I would sleep in a car if I had to, if they wouldn't take my dog."

Catie

I've heard that so many times, where they're posting online about an animal who's coming in to previous shelters as, "Oh, how could people continue to do this, they just give them up without caring," or, "I'd live in a car with my whole family before I give my dog up." And...

Dr. Kwane

I'd say don't…probably don't say that--

Catie

Put your money where your mouth is.

Dr. Kwane

-- until you've actually tried it, or done it. Because if you're in a position where you can go into a warm place and shower, when it's cold out, when it's 35 degrees outside. But the only catch or caveat is you have to leave your dog, or find a different place for your dog? Yeah, I would like to know how many people would go there. But not just one night, but night, after night, after night. For months, in some cases years. Would you make that sacrifice? And I think until those people who are asking that question can answer it in the affirmative, and say, "Yes, I would," or really understand and know what that means? I don't think you're in a position to judge whether or not...

Catie

Yeah, I agree with you.

Dr. Kwane

...These people should have these pets. 

Catie

Yeah, I agree. As far as transitional housing goes, you know, there are so many programs in LA that do offer some sort of resource, and there's people that do want to take advantage of it, but actually have to make the decision not to, because their pet can't come. Is that something that the community that's trying to help these people, who would like to seek help for themselves…somewhere we need to step up, in a way almost, is to provide all of that access.

Dr. Kwane

Yeah, if I'm understanding your question there, or should the standards be rewritten so that they're more inclusive?

Catie

Yeah. You're accommodating these people, understanding that bond.

Dr. Kwane

Yeah, I think when the rules are made, those are people who probably don't understand the importance of a pet, and how they really do act as a lifeline to these people. Because if the hope and the drive is to get these people into a home, to integrate them into – again, I use air quotes here – “normal life,” so you have a job, you have a purpose, a function. We're trying to get you away from your drug habit, or rehabilitate maybe a mental illness. A pet can be all those things, I am telling you. This story just stands out to me, Walter and his dog Dinker, who we met in Skid Row. And Walter said to me, “I've been struggling with alcohol and drug abuse issues most of my life. I rescued Dinker from a dumpster.” This man is unhoused, and bonded with Dinker, Dinker became his life. And he said, you know, those moments where he wanted to fall into his inner demons, and start up again, or, look, you have a bad day at work, you want to go home and have a drink. It was so easy for him, because he was trying to remain clean and sober, when he found himself depressed, or having trouble or a bad day, to want to go back. And he said, “You know what, this dog kept me on the straight and narrow. He kept me on the straight and narrow more than any therapy session, and more than any medication I've ever received, to help me with my mental issues and my addiction. This dog.”

Catie

Yeah, it’s that responsibility to take care for it – he was using the care for his animal to keep him clean.

Dr. Kwane

Yeah. So I think when we…and look, we're all part of that mission to educate people on this bond, and the importance of proper welfare and care, and we were talking about this before we got on, just continuing to push forward in the shelter arena so we can reduce the euthanasia numbers, improve adoption, advocate for spay and neuter. It’s a lot.

Catie

Offer more low-cost veterinary, so people don't have to make the choice being able to treat their animal who's experiencing probably, like you said, if you could treat, you know, 80% of the things you see in the communities you work in out of a bag, you know, can we make it more accessible for people to make that decision that there's an affordable option? It's a simple fix. And I don't have to give this dog into an already overcrowded shelter. There are resources, and there are people working towards that. It is just such a large, large issue.

Dr. Kwane

Yeah, it's a big boulder that we keep pushing.

Catie

That's a big one. That is a big one.

Dr. Kwane

But we're making like we said, we're enthusiastic because I think we keep making progress.

Catie

It reminds me, when I lived in the South, there were a lot of UnChained Coalitions. And I thought this was one of the most motivating things, just getting into animal welfare, was when I just got in, learning about all of this, and all of these people had their dogs chained up outside their house. And I – similar to you – judged them very heavily and was like, “How could anyone do that to their dog?” And then these UnChained Coalitions started popping up, and it just turned out that they didn't have enough money to make a simple fence so their dog didn't have to be chained up. It wasn't that they didn't love them, it wasn't that they wanted them on a heavy chain so that they couldn't run away. They didn't want their dog to run away. They loved that dog. So people would go around, and be approachable, and they would scan the radar and they were animal people and their fence would be built and the dog was unchained. And I think projects like yours, projects like those, really coming down to a level that's approachable and understanding that there is no judgment. And we just want to do it for the animals. I think that would bring everyone to a really great place.

Dr. Kwane

We're getting there.

Catie

So if we all would like to learn more about the Street Vet project, can you tell us how to find out more, how people can help, can they volunteer? Can they donate? What's the best way to go about this?

Dr. Kwane

You can do all of those things. People can obviously go to the Instagram. We have two sites devoted to sharing stories and content, it's @Dr. Kwane, and @The Street Vet. And everything in the link is attached or comes back to our website ProjectStreetVet.org. There are ways to donate, there are ways to sign up and volunteer, to get involved…just messages of support. I'll tell you, this guy who once didn’t like Instagram, I do catch myself going through the comments and reading them because they're so heartwarming and supportive.

Catie

It confirms you're breaking through to people, that people are understanding the message you're spreading, the love you're spreading through communities that don't see a lot of love. So it’s important.

Dr. Kwane

Or when I find that I change someone's mind, and they say, “I just, yeah, I get it now. I didn't really think the homeless should have a pet. I see your stories, and I understand now.”

Catie

If you're interested in volunteering, definitely head to that website. Leave some really incredible, encouraging comments on Instagram. And Dr. Kwane, thank you so much for coming today. You're really doing incredible work, you're making a difference. Your whole team is making a difference.

Dr. Kwane

Well, you are too. And I just want to thank you guys for having me. I think outside of our little bubble, a lot of people don't know what the Annenberg space is doing, and how they're pushing the message forward, and the mission, and on the frontlines of education. And then hard rescue and finding homes, like, I tell you, we run down the list of the things that places like you do, and people committed to the mission like yourself do – it's a long list of stuff, and you show up at work in the morning, “I have to do this, and check this box.” It's a lot. But all these little things are what are changing, at least in my estimation…in my 25 years, I've seen a very nice trajectory, and changing the world for pets in a much better way. And it's all of us, doing our little piece and our little part.

Catie

Well, I hope I can speak for everyone here that it's honestly our pleasure and our honor, and the fact that we can be a part of that trajectory. I can't think of anything better. So, thank you.

Dr. Kwane

Thank you. The thanks goes both ways, so I appreciate it. Thank you.

OUTRO

The PetSpace Podcast is brought to you by Wallis Annenberg PetSpace. To learn more, please visit annenbergpetspace.org.