Meet the voice of the Busy Beak Podcast. With special guest Miss Fame!

In this week's episode, you meet me, Christian Diaz. Founder & president of the Busy Beak. We deep dive into; my history with exhibition poultry, my relationship with it today, and my plans for the future. My dear friend, Kurtis, was kind enough to be my interviewer.  They are better known as International Fashion Icon, Miss Fame! 
Stay tuned for Part 2 where we will dive into my background with Parrots. 

Follow us on TikTok: @busybeak
YouTube, Instagram & Facebook: @thebusybeak

Transcript

0:00

If you've been wondering just who is the voice of the Busy Beak Podcast. In this episode, we take a deep dive into my experience with exhibition poultry. I'll be interviewed by a very special friend of mine. His name is Kurtis Dam-Mikkelsen, or better known as International Fashion Icon, Miss Fame of Miss Fame Beauty, and RuPaul's Drag Race. I hope this this episode will give you some insight about who I am, my background with poultry, and also a little glimpse into my relationship with Kurtis. You're listening to the Busy Beak Podcast where we talk about all things bird, from parrots to chickens, and everything in between. I'm your host Christian Diaz. Follow us on social media @theBusyBeak. Well, welcome to the Busy Beak Podcast everyone. Today, it's gonna be a little bit different because we're gonna interview me! <Laugh>. I realize that our past two episodes were about other people, and you have yet to really know who I am and what my background is. So, one of my dear friends is here to assist me with that all the way from Zurich, Switzerland. And, uh, yeah, we're excited to get started. It's a common thread. Uh, a trend from the last one that you just shared with Reto. Is that we keep pulling you back to Switzerland, refining solutions to get you here. Um, so yeah, introductions. I think it's really, um, interesting how we met. We met because of a chicken show in, uh, Paso Robles. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and it was, I forget exactly what time of the year. Might have been around September. I usually try when visiting family, cuz I'm from the Central Coast, go to the, uh, the poultry show that they have once a year at this specific at the fairgrounds. Right. And I remember seeing you and me and my cousin who are both chicken fanatics, were like, we need to, or poultry people. Yeah. We need to talk to you. And we ended up talking with you and I believe you had your Seramas at the show. And, uh, it was exciting cuz you know, I used to show birds. That's why we're here. I used to also show lambs, and I was in 4H and FFA when I was living in the Central Coast. And then I moved away. And I, it's been a long time, but there's a full circle moment we'll get to talk about during this, uh, conversation mm-hmm.<affirmative>. And, um, I think that me seeing you reignited my want to get involved and you were deeply immersed in poultry and, you know, I think for me, what what kept me tethered to the conversation is talking with you over the course of the past few years mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So can you give me a bit of background on how you got involved with poultry and showing them? Oh gosh. Well, my relationship with poultry goes way back to when I was a little kid. My, uh, my grandparents, uh, helped raise me when I was a baby in Mexico. They had all kinds of poultry, you know, on their, on their land. And some of my earliest memories are going out with my grandma to collect eggs with her. Mark, the ones that she wanted the hens to incubate. Sitting on her rocking chair while we, like, threw grains and whatnot to them. It was a really magical childhood and, and beautiful memories to have. And that just stuck with me through, throughout my entire life. Then when I was a little bit older and I was in the States, I, I joined the 4H and the FFA. For those who don't know they're youth organizations, mostly based on agriculture and raising and showing of animals. Poultry was, it's kind of universal in that it's, it's easier to raise birds than it is to raise, raise cattle or hogs just because of, you know, their size, the amount of space that it takes to, to care for them, the resources that are needed basically, you know, financially and et cetera. Yeah. So I just got really involved showing them at the local fairs. And then as an adult, I came back after college and decided to really get serious about, about the breed, uh, getting a line and like selecting a breed that I was really passionate about. So what was your first breeds first that you got started? What was the thing that hooked you? Because Reto talked about how he got silkies from the zoo <laugh>, which we, I'm like, how? What kind of zoo is this? Right, exactly. And Reto is in the previous podcast that we, that you had just filmed while you were here and you just released previously. Yeah. So if people are questioning who Reto is they can go back and listen to the previous podcast and it's in segments. So you get a bunch of information from another expert mm-hmm.<affirmative> in the field. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, animal science background with Reto mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And you've got, I think you said 20 years of experience working with poultry show animals and yes, you're still going, still going, which is fantastic. But what were those first breeds that got you hooked? Oh gosh. Well, as a kid I got a couple of polish from a dear friend of mine, Dr. Max Hibi. He's a veterinarian, uh, here locally. Um, wonderful supporter of youth. And he breeds guinea pigs. And, and he had some, some show birds that he had gave me my first, my first show birds, which were polish. And also I ended up, uh, getting some, uh, black tailed white Japanese bantams. Is the Japanese. Oh, so the Japanese are the short-legged variety? Yes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Super. Think super short. You call 'em chabo, they. Call 'em chabo in Europe. Mm-hmm.<Affirmative>. Yeah. Yeah. And the polish, it's. Really. Beautiful crest. Yes. For the novice that's listening in. If you are imagining, you've probably seen them if you've gone to a poultry show and if you're learning about birds, uh, it's always, uh, very important that you, you get an American standard or just a standard, either a bantam, well, you'll probably have more variation in the American standard. Yes. Right. Yes. This one has most of the images of the birds that are shown. So you can understand, I mean, this is like my chicken bible <laugh>, so I can look at it. It. Was for everyone I think. Super. Helpful. Yes, exactly. Yeah. But, okay, so you had polish and you also had, uh, the Japanese mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And what was your evolution? Because I know there's an evolution. Yes. I've gotten to witness it firsthand. Absolutely. So I, uh, those were my main brains that I showed, uh, in my youth. And then as an adult, when I came back, uh, I, again, Dr. Max Hibi, um, will blame him for all this.<Laugh>. Yes. We have to target somebody, has to be somebody point the finger at.<Laugh>. He, um, I went over to his house and he had, um, sarama bantams, uh, for those who don't know, Serama bantams, they originated Malaysia. Uh, they're the world's smallest breed of, of chicken. They are very like upright. They're like, um, the, like Dolly Partons and the Arnold Schwarzeneggers of like the chicken world. They're just like, push little, like breasts out and uh, strut. And they're just super animated and really just fun to watch. So I was instantly intrigued with them. And my weakness are pure white animals. Uh, cuz I think there's nothing more beautiful than a pure white animal that's done right. And he, I saw in, in his, uh, cull pen the of roosters, for people who don't know what cull pen is, where you, you know, put the animals that are, are not gonna quite work for, for breeding or for show. And I saw a white rooster in there and I, I asked him, I was like, can I have that one <laugh>? And he, he's all why not? Why not? Go ahead, go for it. Go nuts. So I took him in and that was my first, uh, white American Serama. He was huge. I think he, he ended up weighing about 28, uh, ounces. The standard is 16 ounces<laugh>. So he was way bigger. Than a solid bird. He was very solid. The standard size of the Okay. Yes, exactly. There isn't, cuz there they're original bantams, right? Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, they're, they're properly, there's no standard variety Right. Of, of serama. Right. What is that called? When it's a true, it's a. True bantam. True bantam. Yep. That's the terminology for it. Yeah. And the white, when mentioning white, it makes sense because there's no distractions. There's no flash to, to throw you off. You see the lines, you see exactly as it should be. Exactly. So it makes sense. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, if it's gonna work, it has to work flawlessly across the board. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. If there's anything wrong with the white bird, you, you see it like instantly, instantly. Especially in their silhouette if you put them on a, against, like a darker background. So that bird, he had a lot of issues, a lot of, a lot of flaws. The shape of his sickles, his his size was the biggest thing. His wings were just huge and dragged on the ground, had too much fluff. By today's standards he was a terrible bird <laugh>, but he was the foundation. But how do you, because I know we've talked about it and mentorship mm-hmm.<affirmative> and having a mentor within this specific hobby mm-hmm.<affirmative>. And, you know, to call it a hobby, feels so light-handed because it's a true obsession. And I understand it because I'm completely obsessed with the birds I have. And I look forward to the generations to come. I look forward to the project. Uh, how do you find that mentor and what does it look like to learn these essential steps to better a breed and variety that you've taken on? Specifically the Seramas mm-hmm. <affirmative>. How did the guidance get you to where you were like, okay, we're really solid. These birds are fantastic because they they are. Well, that took some time. Uh, I'll have to be honest with you. It's very, very difficult. Um, takes a lot of work, a lot of resources. Like I said, with that bird, he had a lot of issues. But the one thing that he did have is a beautiful, beautiful head, gorgeous head, beautiful comb that really followed through. And something that I really focused on and wanted to maintain within my line. When people saw birds, white American Seramas at shows, they knew, oh, that's a, that's a Christian Bird <laugh>. Uh, it's really easy to, to pick them out with the white American Serama bantams. They were the newest breed. Uh, at the time in the standard, there weren't very many serious breeders of, of white American Serama bantams in the serama world. We also have, uh, what's called tabletop judging, which is what they do in, in their country of origin, which is Malaysia. It took on here in the United States. So the breeders that were out there were focusing on that. And not so much the colors or the varieties, um, or establishing set set varieties, really. You had a mixed bag of birds all over the place. So the initial birds that I had, I had to cross that white bird to, to other varieties and then try to cross back in terms of finding a mentor. Very, very difficult. Because really, there wasn't anyone that, that was focusing on the white Americans Serama variety. Uh, they had gotten... The breeders that were out there had gotten them into the standard, but then shift their focus to other varieties. So even though they still had some, it, it wasn't their main project anymore. I've researched on Facebook and just making connections and whatnot. And I got, uh, connected with a couple of breeders out east. Um, another breeder that was, uh, relatively close to me. You know, got some, got some more white birds in. Over the years, I, I created different lines kind of experimenting, taking the best traits from each one and try to compliment, do complimentary matings and breedings to get the, the aspects of, of the birds that I really wanted. Those features and like, and really locked them down. And I'd say after about five years, I, I stopped bringing new birds in and then it was just line breeding. Uh, which means that, you know, we just breed within the line father to daughter, mother, son, aunt to... What do they call that? <laugh>. Yeah. To perfect. What you've, what you've really curated within that specific variety and breed. Absolutely. And it's actually the, the way you get standard looking animals mm-hmm.<affirmative> is to line breed. And I've learned that through phone calls that we've taken, uh, as I've asked so many questions. And you know, I find, because in a way you're a friend, but you're also a mentor because you have experience, you have a lot of knowledge, and you're willing to share that with me. Uh, and also to entertain my enthusiasm because it's the beginning of something that I've been neglecting due to the location I was living in a city. I wasn't able to have animals. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and, uh, the, the excitement to reconnect. And I would say Reto happens to be my mentor here. I have tons of questions. Uh, he has tons of answers. And then I get to be around other poultry community people and their respected breeds and varieties. And they're bringing in insights about for my birds being, uh, birchen or birkin farbeg. That they are... For those that also are raising those within orpingtons, what they're seeing as con, you know, consequences of that specific variety. Like, there's so much information you're gonna get from different breeders that have the same variety of, of bird you have regarding the, the feather type. Yeah. So, or, or whatever, if they have a rose comb or if they have a certain feature that you're trying to Perfect. Right. Uh, I find it invaluable. Everyone's sharing knowledge together. And I find the community in, in Europe, because in central Europe here is so small that there is a huge community aspect because these are like farmers. Absolutely. This is a, most of the time a side hustle or a side enjoyment for most people that have whatever their nine to five is, or they're farmers. And then they have the hobby on the side of the joy of, of, uh, show animals, show poultry, show cattle, whatever they may be. Right. So I was gonna also ask you, um, because I know you had evolved, you, you, you'd have, so currently, just in case people aren't aware off camera, I'm looking through my ABA right now to find your, your winning birds that were placed in the American Bantam. And oh, here we are. Yay. Talk. Let's talk about, let's talk about him. When was that photo taken? And he looks fantastic. I know that we talked about there's even better photos and you know how it is with your birds. Every, you know how they can photograph. Yes. It's a gorgeous image. And anybody that's seen this bird, a specifically in central Europe was blown away. Right here. Yep. Uh, but you know, we know our birds. So you know, when you are like, there's a better, if it was just like that, it would've been right. French kiss <laugh>. So when was this picture taken? So that picture was taken at the, uh, the American Bantam Association National Show in 2013. And that bird actually was the reserve of breed American Serama Bantam. Um, he wasn't my very best bird there. Uh, and there's, yeah, like I said, there's better pictures of him<laugh>. I wish he, in that photo, he would've maybe, um, been posed a little bit more back, um, to really like show off that nice big, uh, prominent breast that he has. Um, and that really upright stance. So in that photo, he's a little, he's crouching down a little bit. Yeah. Which, yep, I understand. It's, but it's, he's still beautiful. You can tell, you can tell. He has, um, a really nice head, um, a nice comb. He has a big, full tail. Uh, just a beautiful bird. So please input your pictures of the, of your birds. I have a bunch of images in my phone cuz I'm like a proud mom. So I'm like all the time. And I like watching the progress cuz you get them to a certain point and there's that window where everything's working. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you want to keep them there and then they can continue to, I mean, I, I'm always impressed week after week and I'm like, oh, I really like where they're at this week. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I've learned so much watching the week to week or if I travel and I'm gone for two weeks, I come back. Huge changes. Subtle. But enough that I've been able to see the difference where the sickles are looking much larger or, you know, you're keeping track on an ear lobe. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, you're keeping track on those feathers that are still kind of encased until they've bloomed. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> You had seramas. And you, you also have the American White Leghorn. Yes. Correct. Yes. Did I say that correctly? Is am I categorizing it? You know, there's a step system. You have to acknowledge the where they're from, which cl or what class they're in. Yep. Are they standard? You have the standard size. They're magnificent. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And that's when I met you in San Diego. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I hadn't seen you since the show. And I got to see your, your champion row <laugh>. Yeah. Your champion row at home.<Laugh>. Yeah. With the white Leghorns. It really connects to the American Serama Bantams and my success with them. In 2014, around that time, uh, I, I went to a big show, uh, the Tennessee Valley Poultry Club in, in Tennessee. Uh, I flew some birds out there, showed them, and I was clerking for one of the judges. And it just so happened that that judge got a chance to judge my birds. Of course, he didn't know that they were my birds, cuz confidentiality and fairness and all that. He's a very respected poultry judge, third generation poultry person. And he looked at them and he said, wow, these are the best seramas I've ever seen. And that was a huge compliment for me. I, I was over the moon and this being, it was a national show for the American Bantam Association. I got Best of Breed, Best and Reserve of Breed, uh, with my birds. And then when it came down to, uh, selecting champion, uh, which is the class that Seramas are in, I was overjoyed that my bird was actually considered in those placings. You have your heritage breeds, which like the, the Plymouth Rock Bantams, the Rhode Island Red Bantams, the Leghorn Bantams. These are all established breeds with, with breeders that have been breeding them for generations. So they're very much perfected. It's almost impossible all of the, the best of breeds up in a row. And as the judge is evaluating them again to, to get the best and reserve, he looks at them. He looks at them, and then he starts pulling birds and says, put this one back, put this one back. So it's a process, process of elimination, essentially. There was three birds still up there and mine was still there. <laugh>. So your heart was racing. Yeah. I almost peed my pants. It's so exciting. Yes. Yeah. It's fantastic. It's the best news you could get as a breeder that your animals are winning. I mean Yes. Validation. You've done something seriously you've gotten there. Hundred percent. And, and then keeping it there. Yes. But you now have the quality. Yes. But now you have, uh, and you also have the eye and the mindset of how you got there in the first place. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> because of education time, uh, generational line breeding. Like you understand the dynamic to get to Yeah. To succeed, you know, to get those cards, to get that report card that says this is quality animal. And it's looking quite fantastic. It's not a, I just bought it, I'm in now. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Uh, it's, you've worked for it, it's your actual work and dedication to the breed. Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, so to end that story, we, we didn't win, uh, best or reserve, but it was just an honor to be considered, which was, yeah. Uh, then the following year was the, the Centennial show for the American Bantam Association, uh, in Columbus, Ohio. I flew out for that show. Um, I did take some of my birds, uh, to compete, but most importantly, I was clerking for a respected, uh, poultry breeder and judge. Um, Steve Beaty, who's also a huge name in White Leghorns <laugh>. So Steve and I, we judged the cochin national at that show. And I remember there was 600 something cochins. I mean so many. There was just, I think there was like 160 just black pullets that we needed to, to judge. Um, we also did the Japanese Bantam National and, uh, we did the Leghorn Bantams and a couple of other things. But literally he and I started judging at 9:00 AM and we didn't stop

<laugh> until 6: 19:45

00 PM <laugh>. We didn't even take a lunch. <laugh>. And how many judges? Uh, at that show? I think there was like, maybe 12 I want to say. Uh, cuz it was such a huge show. I think there was 14,000 birds that were, were shown. So to thank me for my efforts, uh, judging with him, uh, and being his clerk, uh, Steve Beaty sent me two dozen chicks that following spring of white leghorns of his line of white leghorns that he's had for, for decades, and that he's won. You know, he's a master breeder. He's won so many awards and accolades. It was a huge honor. Uh, is he still showing? He is, he is actually. <laugh> still showing and judging. I know, I know he's still going strong. I raised those birds, conditioned them and showed them and did really well with them. I won best of breed, um, many times at shows, I won, um, Champion Mediterranean, um, several times. Uh, Reserve Large Fowl, Champion Large Fowl. And Word started getting out that, oh, Christian has really nice white leghorns and, you know, where did you get them? I said, well, of course Steve Beaty. Several years later, uh, Steve asked me to be his, his partner, uh, breeding partner. I got teary-eyed <laugh> because it's a huge, huge honor and validation to have someone like that that's dedicated such a big piece of, of their life and who they are to something. And for them to say that, I want you to continue this legacy for me, um, I want you, I wanna work together with you. And...<Laugh>, I'm still getting teary-eyed. <laugh>. It's a community. Yeah. It's like a second family, you know? Yeah, absolutely. We find people in places in the world that can allow us to be our authentic self mm-hmm. <affirmative> and allow us to, uh, find people that are as interested and passionate about something that maybe not everybody can understand. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, uh, when you're amongst that community, it feels like there's a big joyous part of you. There's, it's, it's a unifier. Yeah. You know, whatever your background is, whoever you're coming from, when you walk into that show or you walk onto somebody's property and check out animals with them, you start to talk from the place of passion. It's like a, a specific tone in your voice and an enthusiasm. And, uh, it's, it radiates. It's like, it's almost, I'd say it is quite contagious because you can really get people on board to find your passion when you explain it and show them. It's not just look at this cute baby chick. It's, look at how magnificent an animal can be. Yeah. It's, it's spectacular. And when you're doing it with somebody who has generations of dedication, it's, it's such a admirable contribution towards each other's lives. Mm-hmm.<affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Because you saw your dedication to making these chicks and the, and breeding and continuing and thriving with the line that he bestowed to you mm-hmm. <affirmative> it, it, and then to say, let's unify and draw strength together because you do need community strength here. It's something that you, you have to look towards. Where can I lean? Uh, is there anybody in the family that would like, be interested as I am? You know, uh, not everybody will possess the same passion for your animals. Right. You might get lucky, but if not, there you will find a friendship that will feel like family with somebody who totally gets it. Absolutely. Yes. How special. Yeah. Steve said many times, he's like, you're like my son <laugh>. Accepted. Thank you. Yeah. You know, the more the merrier, you know, they say takes a village and if it happens to be a patchwork parable kind of communal aspect of people in our lives that contribute to all those, I, uh, all those parts of us that make us who we are, it's quite special. And this is something that it's so rewarding because we do need, uh, as people, I think we need a place to have passion. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, uh, something for me, what I've leaned to into with the poultry and having my own birds as it's reconnected me with nostalgia, with something from my childhood, something that I always felt mm-hmm.<affirmative>, which was, uh, that bond that me and my grandfather shared for chickens. And we would sit out there and just study them and we would get more and we, we, you know, we, we collected Yeah. Everything. And I kept going with it. And now I'm understanding the excitement to focus and to build upon at least one. You know, I want to focus on what I have because I want to improve and I want to learn. And it's a nice thing to actually retrain your mind, to relearn new things, uh, whether it's just, you know, this is a nice thing, a way to get your brain excited about something when you have a passion for it. Absolutely. But that's, that's beautiful. Do you, do you keep in touch? Are you still talking as Oh, yeah. Yeah. All the time. Yeah. I mean, he's, he's gonna be a part of my life for, for the rest of my life. Huh. And so you had done a, like an interview about your life, uh, is it Univison? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it was a documentary mm-hmm.<affirmative> that was presented in Mexico mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, about the origin story of who you are and your relationship to the birds. Yeah. And what was that experience like to be able to tell your story? And also the whirlwind about traveling with birds to a. Show. That was really cool. It was, it came at me completely unexpected. Um, I got a phone call from, um, from the reporter, uh, from from Univision. And he said he, he had seen the documentary that was done by, uh, Country Music Television called Chicken People, in English. And he said, wouldn't it be so cool to do one in Spanish for the Spanish speaking world? And he reached out to the Ohio National and the President Clell Agler, a friend of mine, another Leghorn breeder, actually. He, he said, you sh you need to talk to that guy in California, Christian <laugh>. So he called me, uh, and told me he what he wanted to do, and I said, yeah, sure. Let's do it. Why not? Uh, he came all the way out to, uh, to my house from Miami. Uh, interviewed me on, on my parents' property, interviewed my mom, uh, got, you know, footage of the birds. And, um, you know, really talked about, you know, my life and how, kind of like, like this interview now, um, what got me into poultry, you know, what we're doing, um, judging background, um, the success of my birds, those things. And to continue on to that story, after the home visit, they wanted me to follow me to the Ohio National, uh, to film my birds in competition there. And huge mess getting my birds to the Ohio National <laugh>, the. Birds from San Diego to Ohio. National. Yes. From San Diego to Columbus, Ohio. The, the birds didn't arrive, uh, and which meant that I didn't have birds at the show. They actually, um, yes. Just didn't even make it on the plane. They had And, um, how. Many animals were you traveling with? Uh, I was, I had entered three males, uh, American Serama bantams, actually, you know, two male American Serama bantams and, uh, three leghorns, a trio. Yep. A cockerel and two pullets. And Yep. But I still ended up going to the show. Um, I called the, uh, the reporter and I told him what had happened, and I was, I said, do you still want to come, because I'm not, I don't even have birds here<laugh>. And, and he, he said, oh, let me talk to the producers. Calls me back. He says, we think it's fantastic. We love the drama!<Laugh>. Of course. We, we were like, but this is real. Literally, this is real. This is terrible <laugh>. So they followed me around the show and, uh, really, uh, kind of extended the interview. Um, I got to talk about, you know, the showing process, the judging process, um, you know, kind of what it felt like to, to be at that, that high level of a show. Um, seeing the birds that were there and knowing that my birds could have done very well if they had actually made it. Uh, so two weeks later was the American Poultry Association National Show, which was being held in Shawnee, Oklahoma. And when the Univision reporters followed me there also, and this time my birds did arrive,<laugh>, thankfully <laugh>. Um, I was able to show them, um, I was clerking, uh, at that show for, uh, for another judge. But the reporters were able to kind of walk around and, and see the different birds and kind of update me on, on what was happening. Because it wasn't only the American Poultry Association National, but it was also the, uh, the North American Leghorn Club National Show and the Mediterranean Breeders Association National Show, which is the class of birds that leghorns are in. So this is like a three, a three-way national <laugh> for the Leghorns. And I, uh, they said, people kept saying, um, your bird's doing really well. He looks fantastic, referring to the male. And, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm clerking, I'm, I'm judging birds and, and whatnot. I can't walk over there and see what's happening. But, uh, yep. He ended up placing, um, winning Best of Breed Leghorn, um, Champion Mediterranean, and he was up there on Champion Row. So fantastic. I was, I was over the moon. To even get that far was huge because this is, this was a massive show with super high quality birds. And yeah, we, the next day was the champion row judging where they decide who the, the, the champion. Uh, Large Fowl of the show is the Champion Waterfall and the Champion Bantam, and then those... And Champion Turkey. And then those four compete then for, um, Super Grand Champion of the Show and Reserve Grand Champion of the Show. Well, my bird placed Grand Champion, Large Fowl of the Show at the American Poultry Association National. Huge, uh, huge. It's my biggest win. And. Say how many birds are at these shows? Uh, I think there was 5,000 birds at that show. So it was very, very good size. Yeah. Huge from all over the country. Canada, um, super special, super proud, um, of that accomplishment. And yeah, he didn't win a Super Grand Champion of the Show. That was the, the winner was a, uh, a Sebastopol Goose <laugh>, and the Reserve Grand Champion was the, uh, the Silky Bantam, um, but still Grand Champion, uh, large Fowl was just more than I could have asked for. It was... It's such a special experience. And also to, um, I mean, I'm proud of your birds, and I didn't have the backstory with your birds. I just know your passion. And I, when we were in, uh, the national show here in Switzerland, it was my, uh, go-to card to unify us with people that were not necessarily English speaking. I was like, he's got the Grand Champion Bird from <laugh>. I was, I was wanting to connect with people because of the passion, and I knew, uh, how exciting it is to showcase a quality, a quality animal from, uh, such a large scale show and be able mm-hmm.<affirmative> to bring that to a conversation amongst maybe the language to connect Right. By just showing an image was a way for people to show their enthusiasm and want to also show you their birds. Absolutely. It was, uh, they brought us all together. Yeah. It was wonderful. I mean, I remember just like, you know, pulling up my phone, putting, showing them a picture of the, uh, of the Leghorn and it's like, Grand Champion, and then And then just, just pointing and like the enthusiasm of that con... That essential non-verbal communication <laugh> with. That, you have to find what, you have to find the gap in between when language is, uh, not a connecting factor. There's always something and passion's a factor. And, uh, when you have this win under your belt, do you feel like there's now a pressure? Or do you feel like I've arrived at a place where I can kind of subside and soak that in and also reevaluate? Or do I keep going and breeding and trying to keep topping that win? Yes. Um, and yes, keep going and breeding and topping that win because there's, uh, you know, the next, the next step to that would've been a Super Grand Champion of Show. Um, yeah, I mean, that's, especially at a national show. And I know that you've evolved your relationship with poultry, uh, that you've become a judge now, uh mm-hmm. <affirmative> or are, are you, you've become a judge because I know that you've traveled and you've gotten to bring your knowledge and your history, your own experiences, and also the studying of the, the standard, the APA and the ABA <laugh>. Uh, so what is your relationship with poultry today? How are you existing within the world of Yeah. Feather Fanciers? Yeah, that's a great question. Uh, a few years ago, a couple years ago now, I, I decided that I wanted to, to step up, step back from actively breeding, uh, and showing my birds. I wanted to focus more on, on other activities in my life. Um, but also I wanted to still remain connected. And, uh, from my, my earliest beginnings with, um, showing exhibition poultry, I would always volunteer to clerk at shows. Uh, and by clerk, I mean assisting the judge. So picking up that knowledge, um, about different breeds, the judging methods, uh, kind of looking at the, the finer details of, of each bird. Um, and the point system, I, I became, uh, officially part of the, uh, the American Bantam Association's like judges apprenticeship program. And funny enough that back in 2020, uh, most people remember that year, <laugh>, uh, with covid. We're trying to block it out.<laugh>. Exactly. It was rough. So it just so happened that, that, uh, march, I was, uh, scheduled to fly to Salt Lake City for, um, for a show and officially take my judge's licensing exam. And of course, because of Covid, that didn't happen. Uh, it just kept getting pushed back and pushed back. Uh, and then when shows finally did open up, then we had another issue, um, now with avian influenza, uh, canceling shows across the country. So it's just, uh, you know, several years of, of essentially waiting for that official piece of paper <laugh>. But in the meantime, um, I have been been judging, um, I've been judging the, uh, local county fairs for the youth for several years now. Um, I also had an opportunity to travel to, uh, Mexico to be the judge for their national show in, uh, in Queretaro last year. Uh, which was a super cool experience, um, seeing how the, the poultry hobby is in, um, in that part of the world. And, and just recently I was able to travel to, to Switzerland and experience the Swiss National Show, uh, which is a huge, uh, treat for me. Not only because I got to see you, but also because I got to, um, you know, experience that, that kind of show and see really the differences of, of how their show system works compared to ours. And this just like the breadth of varieties that are out there, um, in Europe, not just the varieties, but there. Are a lot of varieties. Yeah. How well do. People really have a dedication towards the varieties here? And I know that in the US there's a almost a more strict dedication to the serious breeder that would say stick with the most heritage variety. I don't know if I'm using my terminology correctly, but I'm trying to stay on track here, but that there's certain varieties that are deemed classics mm-hmm.<affirmative> that you focus on if you want to be seen as a serious breeder. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But it's nice that there is places in the world where there's enthusiasm to see all the different ideas of each breed possible mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and that there's people dedicated to perfect, to the best of their ability, that particular variety. Absolutely. Absolutely. I saw so many varieties I've never even seen before. I mean, I, I've. Heard about what were some that stood out for you that you were like, oh, that's something I would like to make possible, just to have. Oh my gosh. There was the, um, that silver blue, uh, Wyandotte. It was stunning. Yeah. It was, it was amazing. E yeah. Even before I, I got a chance to look at the European standard or even talk to the breeders about what their type was, I, I walked up to that row and said, holy smokes, that bird is just stunning. Just so well put together. He just had presence. And I mean, and the color <laugh>, it was amazing. For me. It was also like something I'd never seen before. And I haven't been to as many shows as you've been to, but it's something right off the bat, you spot you can just tell mm-hmm. Right, right away. It's a, it's a well put together animal. Like everything is working Yes. In that, the image of that bird was completely working. Yes. And beauty and symmetry and yeah. The, those things that, that you pick up on, if you have that, that eye. The, the other breed that I really liked were the Rhinelanders, which is a Swiss breed, uh, they reminded me of, of Leghorns. Uh, but with a rose comb. Um, granted rose comb Leghorns exist, but these birds, they had, um, a much more level, uh, flat back. Um, they still had that, that nice big tail. Um, but they were, uh, you know, a thicker stockier bird. They were meant to be, uh, dual purpose, uh, whereas the lager is, is just meant to be a, an egg laying... Egg. Production. Egg production. Yeah. So I really liked those, especially because, you know, they came in, uh, standard and bantam sizes, and I mean, I, I won't lie to you. I wanted to take some home <laugh> if it was possible.<laugh>. You did talk positively about the D'Anvers. That the Yes. Am I correct? It's a Belgian breed. Yes, yes. The Belgian D'Anvers, uh, phenomenal quality. Uh, well, I mean, we're, we're going back to their, to their roots, their origins in Europe. The, the beards and, and muffs on on those birds were, were outstanding. Um, much bigger, much fuller, um, than what you see here in the States. Um, their colors, the, just the, the amount of varieties that they had, not only the amount of varieties, but the quality of those varieties, because the, the standard for the, for the d'Anver bantam is essentially the same in Europe as it is in the United States. It's one of the ones that's, that's parallel. And I, I was, I was taken back by them. Just amazing <laugh>. Yeah. And I think we also saw, uh, what is the, the Italianers. The. Ones that are leghorns, but of Europe, and they're, you can correct me on how, how I'm saying it, but that there was like the barred, like basically Barred variety. Yes. And it, it was striking even for me, who's a bit naive about, you know, I see things that I, I don't know if it's available in the US and I know that there's certain images in the standard that there might not even be a breeder for that specific breed or variety at this state. Right. So we can't, we can't lose those varieties because once they're, once they disappear, it's, it's kind of a good luck situation if you can maybe find a breeder in, in Europe to ship eggs, which is very complicated. Um, but yeah, there, there seems to be a bit of don't let them disappear. Right. Don't let those varieties disappear. There's, there's, they're there for a reason. They're beautiful. They deserve attention as well. And, uh, there is a lot of passion that I felt at this specific show, uh, people really dedicated and also just learning as, as we go. Cuz I was listening to how you saw things and I was also listening to how Reto saw things, and also, uh, regarding the birds mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because there are differences. There are certain breed that are vastly different, like the game birds Oh, yeah. Uh, that look completely different in Europe versus, you know, even the seabrights the size. Yes. And the, the physicality, the stance it was, and the silkies, they didn't look the same as the ones that I'd seen, I think in the US are quite phenomenal, the shape and the silkies. Yes. The us, uh, has the perfect round in the Cochins, you have those perfect round, you know, they look like a ball. Yep. A ball of fluff mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And in Europe, I feel, um, they weren't at the same level, but we, we know that you can have access to, uh, certain quality of birds in Germany, we didn't get to go to, uh, beyond Switzerland mm-hmm. the German national show apparently has a great representation of the breeds and varieties that are out there today. So it would be fantastic to also check in and see how it's looking. Yeah. But again, the avian, uh, flu has affected travel and the ability mm-hmm.<affirmative>, so we are in that certain situation. I will add, we did have a show in the last few weeks, but we did it remotely by the judge going to the farmer's property. And assessing individual birds and trios. So same as you saw the, uh, national show in Switzerland. But they do it as a cantonal, like for per Cantun, which is like a county in the US mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, since Switzerland is so small, the Canton, the Canton is also much smaller in scale. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you're competing with a smaller radius. Yeah. Just your breeders that are right there, local. To you. Exactly. But we just actually went to pick out the, pick up the awards and, um, they did allow bunnies at the show. So we got to see, uh, a hall full of bunnies. I have a few pictures in my phone I could send to you. And then, uh, they just didn't have the poultry. They had one row of maybe 18 pigeons. Yeah. Which they said it was a little easier to have a few pigeons versus poultry. I, I, you know, it's a very touchy time of, of our, of the world regarding all viruses. So I think people are very cautious, understandably so. You don't want to risk losing your, your hard work. Your, your animals need to stay alive in order for you to stay in the hobby. Um, I was going to ask you, let me just see what, what do you feel is, is next? I know that you're focusing on judging, but what do you feel next? Are you going to, will you breed again and can you see a, a when in your life? Or is it a nice break right now? Do you like the position of being a judge and what that means for you today? Yeah. Well, good news is, um, I'll be traveling to Northern California at the end of the month to finally take my judge's licensing exam at the, um, APA Semi-Annual Show. Congratulations. The Pacific Poultry Breeders. So I'm excited to finally get that done. Let's see, where do I see myself going now? I would like to breed birds again, uh, and show, because that's, it's a huge passion of mine. It'll always be a part of me, but I would like to wait until I have my own property where I can raise my birds. Up until now, my birds have been at my parents' property. And when I would leave or travel, uh, cause I travel a lot through my, my business and, um, uh, and work ventures, the, my parents would take care of them. So my parents are getting older and it just, it didn't feel right to expect them to take care of my animals. Um, and I know that they're not comfortable having other people come to their property all the time and and whatnot. So I made a decision to dis disperse my flock then. But, uh, back to the present, I don't know, maybe in the next five years or so, I plan on buying a, a home, um, as soon as the interest rates go down and the, hopefully the price of a housing goes down a little bit as well. Um, yeah, I would like to buy a property with some, with some acreage on it and, and raise birds again. But for the time being, I'm really enjoying judging. I'm probably gonna be, uh, going down to, uh, Peru and Ecuador and Costa Rica, uh, to judge their shows. Uh, possibly in the future, maybe I'll even get to judge in Europe. Um, cause as you know, I picked up a, a European standard. I'm learning German. Yes, you're translating it. Yes. Translating it, because they don't have, it's so hard to get the, you were looking for a French Yes. But as we learned in person, it's near impossible, near impossible to get the French standard. So you're you have a standard, I'll take it. And you started to translate it. Yes. And I have my Rosecomb pages just behind me and <laugh>. I, I have my pile of literature and like the, the great thing, you know, these little booklets that you get at shows mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm.<affirmative>. I, I stole this from Reto and I find them, um, so important because it's sometimes the only reference images you'll have of your variety. Uh, also who's breeding them where, and I'll actually, I'll bring this up really quick, just as a fun note. Uh, so today my, my birchens started to lay, like my, my trophy pen Yeah. Is laying, I have three setups. And, um, I'm really, it's tricky because I've learned so much from talking with you and Reto, and I found that the ones, they got the same marks since the moment you came to the show. And now that most updated show the birds that I showed, exact same marks. So two different judges have the same opinions about my birds, which is great. It means that they're seeing the qualities by the, um, European standard. And it, it, and I love it because it's a great reference point as we talked about, this is what the, the, the card looks like for anybody that's curious. Um, and it has a lot of handwritten notes. One of these I have is written in French and the other one in German because we had a judge from France and a judge from, uh, Swiss German judge. So mm-hmm.<affirmative>, uh, the notes are thorough, like what they like, what they don't like, and what they wish, um, to, or be mindful of, I guess I would say. Yes. Um, so as a result, egg one is resting in my house. I'm trying to keep it from being exposed outside at the farm. And, um, I also wanted to acknowledge, um, and it'll connect to my next question, that by becoming friends with somebody who's a hobby breeder, who has access, who's within reach, which is all the things. When I first moved here, I was determined to, uh, to make friendships on my own accord and not friends of my partners with my own type of people. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So when I did find the poultry community here, very challenging because nothing's written in English. If you try to Google it, you won't find it. You have to write it in German or Swiss, Swiss German in German. So in order to pull up the website to show, uh, the poultry community here mm-hmm.<affirmative>. And once I found that, then I found the, the show schedule and breeders and what, uh, breeds and varieties were available. And that's how I became acquainted with Reto was because his name kept popping up of breeds that I liked, like Rosecombs and Hamburgs and, and Menorcas. And he had a, he had so many birds when I first met him. Since then, he's moved from that farm we were at. He's now at a smaller property, but he's focusing all on his, all on his, um, all in rosecombs. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. And what I found beneficial is by building this friendship, he's extended his space. He found me a breeder. We hatched these birchens that I'm now raising. And it, it got me involved. It gave me a social life that I desperately needed. And, um, yes, not just focused on the type of work that I do, but it gave me a connection to a community of people that I, I'm connected to because of my childhood. I found, um, it really sweet to know farmers here and see how things were done here and how agriculture works in this country in comparison to the US cause it's so small here and everything is done in a much smaller capacity. And I find it very respectful to the land. Uh, it's never overproduced. They're really mindful about animal welfare. And as a result, building a friendship with somebody allowed me to have a place to house my animals and now look into an allotment garden, which will give me my own space. But I find that this has been a kind of a learning curve because it didn't, I wouldn't have foreseen me finding a relationship that would help me reconnect to having my own animals. I'm so glad. I have my own animals. I go every day when possible and spend as much time with them, uh, cleaning pens, feeding, watering, just watching. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Cause I feel like the best thing you'll, you could do is watch and assess how they're looking. And you take in a lot of information from that. So what would you give as a professional advice to, um, a novice, somebody that's just like, I have a passion for it, but how do I get involved? How are, how would you mentor somebody to just get involved? Mm-hmm.<affirmative> with poultry. The best thing to do is to, uh, find a local show or one that's that's close to you. And. And how do you find those, by. The way? So if you're in the United States, you can go to the American Poultry Association's website, uh, or the American Bantam Association's website and, and look up, look up shows there. We also have, uh, can. You attach a link? Right. I'll. Attach a link. Just make sure there's a link available. <laugh>, <laugh>, they're out there, they're hungry for it. Yes. There's also another site called, uh, poultry show central. And they, uh, they list all the upcoming shows and the contacts and, and all those things, depending on which area you're in. It's, it's really, really well set up. Uh, find them there, attend the show and look at the, just spend the day walking around and looking at all the different breeds and varieties that there are. And, you know, if you see one or a few that really strike your, you know, your eye, then try to make an effort to, to speak to the breeders or the exhibitors and get their story. Like, you know what, get the details on this breed <laugh>. Get the 411 <laugh>. Just start making those connections. Make those those relationships, uh, with those people. And, uh, you can really go from there. You can even buy some birds at the show. Sometimes they have sales areas here in the United States and just get started. I'd say that's, that's the, that's the hardest part for people is just, just get started. And when you get started, you, you know, you, you learn, you, you make mistakes. <laugh>, but you, you grow. And just keep showing up. You know, if you have some, some show birds, um, even though they might not be the very best birds out there, um, have patience with yourself and keep going to the shows, keep making the connections, those friendships with people. And people will, will see that you have the dedication, the commitment to, uh, to take the, the poultry hobby seriously. And that's really how you get the attention of, um, serious poultry breeders and judges that will mentor you. Uh, cuz the last thing that a, a person like that is gonna do is invest their time, energy in someone that's, that they feel is just going to, you know, leave the hobby within, you know, a few months or, or it's just like a passing, um, thing for them. And I think that kind of goes with, with a lot of things in life. We only have so many, so many hours in the day and so much energy to dedicate to something. When you find someone that has, you know, the same passion that you do, you are automatically drawn to them and you want to dedicate, you know, your time and energy and resources to, to helping them grow. I. I will add this because of what, when I became willing to find my community here mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, and thanks to social media, because on Facebook you have poultry communities and clubs specific to certain breeds, so mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I constantly am sharing images that I'm taking of other breeders, birds and crediting those breeders. But just to let other people know that are with that specific breed, how many other varieties are being developed and what they're looking like. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> for me, I find I take a lot of passion in, um, sharing the image, uh, of other people's hard work. Right. So they can say, oh, wow, I didn't even know, I haven't seen them like that before. I haven't seen them at that quality before. And it's not even my animal. It's somebody else's animal. I'm just happy that, that it gives people excitement and enthusiasm about what's out there. Um, and it's a great way, like, there's so many ways to be involved without actually owning an animal. You can be present at the, what the show schedules are, go to their shows. I've gone to, uh, like awards ceremonies. I've gone to, I've gone to rabbit exhibits. I'm going to photograph and share on social about what other people are doing, taking to social like we're doing now by sharing conversations around it. Buying a standard, uh, all poultry literature if you have a passion for it. For all the years that I could not have animals during covid, I bought the APA and the ABA because I, I wanted to look at birds and the only access I had in a New York apartment was to look at the pages and mm-hmm.<affirmative> the standards and to fantasize about, well, when I do have a property one day, what animals, what birds do I want? Right? Like, what can I learn about? And now that I've been around other breeders and I've seen those birds in action, a lot of the animals that I thought I wanted, I don't want <laugh> because it's different, you know, But I'm like, I really like smaller animals because I am also living in an apartment. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. So I know, um, my cousin, way back when, when she was showing in 4H, she had an apartment silky, she had a little hen that she kept in an enclosure. Uh, it was like a pet, you know, like having a bunny, a little ball of fluff. But it gave her the access to be a 4H member in a city and an apartment with one animal. She wasn't going to go as far and wide as maybe, uh, a, a top breeder that has generations, but she kept her her skin in the game. Yeah. And I think that's a great way to keep kids involved. If you could have, like, find out what your regulations are, where you live and what your zoning is, and, um, if you are able to, in your backyard or community living, if you're living in an apartment, um, are your neighbors comfortable with you having a few hens, you know? Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, you could get beautiful hens. You could house beautiful hens and have the visual mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, and, and without the crowing. So, and certain birds are just more chill than other birds. And I think that that's also important to learn. Uh, you know, heavier bodied birds, in my mind are usually a bit more relaxed, uh, compared to flightier birds that are able to literally fly away <laugh>. And you learn that just by being around them if their temperaments are a bit, um, intense. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, if you walk by their enclosure, uh, I mean, any bird can be made tame, I would say to a degree, if you're spending a lot of time with that animal, they will learn that you are their friend mm-hmm.<affirmative> so that they, they're, they're your, that you're not pretty Yeah. You're not the fox. So Yeah. <laugh>, don't worry. Exactly. Exactly. That's how you are. <laugh>. I'm kidding. <laugh>. No, but it's definitely brought back a, uh, an immense, um, joy to be able to have these long-winded conversations with you, um, off of your podcast just in regular life. Mm-hmm.<affirmative> and to learn. And you've shared so much information with me over the course of the last year while I've lived in Switzerland and, and been able to come all the way over here to, uh, see it firsthand and see how it's done here. And, um, it was such a wonderful contribution to my, my experience because you just reinstilled that my passion is 100% valid and mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, I love sharing my little updates with you, you know, <laugh>, oh, I've got two eggs, you know, yay, <laugh>. I mean, there's two or three before that, but we're not crediting those because they're not from the right hens. So they're there, but we've got two eggs that we're really excited about <laugh> <laugh>, so we'll see. I love that. And maybe on another podcast, because everything we talked about, you could like line breeding, you could talk about that for the an hour, many hours, literal hours. Literally. Literally, because there's so many factors. Yes, and I have a lot more questions. So actually this year, uh, 2023 is the American Poultry Association, 150 year anniversary celebration,<laugh> and the semi. It's the big. Birthday. It's a huge birthday. 150 year is the, the APA is the, is America's, uh, longest or oldest and longest running, um, livestock or animal association, which is. Incredible. Yeah. Pretty amazing. But the semi-annual is gonna be in Lodi, California. And then the, the actual national show, annual show will be at the, uh, the Ohio National is the name of the, of the show, if that makes sense. Yeah. The, or the organization. And frequently they host the, the national meet or the annual meet for the American Poultry Association, or the American Bantam Association, sometimes both together, just because they have such a large venue, it's very centrally located. It's, it's an amazing show to attend. It's usually the largest show in the country. Um, but the annual show for the associations can be held really anywhere. Um, well, I say anywhere, but really there's only three, four venues that would really, uh, be able to accommodate that, that type, that scale of a show. Okay. Got it. Yeah. Well, I think that, I mean, it's a teachable moment. There's so many things that I continue to learn and, um, you know, at one stage I could be back in the US and my passion, I, I don't feel that I will let go of what I've reclaimed with, with poultry. I feel that the return after 20 some odd years of being away from birds, from, from owning poultry has just been reignited. And, uh, having all these contacts has been such a, an amazing resource. So knowing who to talk to and, and, and taking those phone calls and investigating and taking trips, um, I'm looking forward to taking some trips outside of, uh, Switzerland and, and continuing to travel throughout Switzerland and talking directly with breeders, seeing what people have, um, in this country. It's, it's so exciting. You know, I've gotten to see a lot of really beautiful birds and, and, and learn about the breeding, learn about what, how long they've been invested with the breeds they have and the varieties that they've been developing. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, I can't wait till we reconnect in in person and get to relationship within this amazing passion. Absolutely. And, uh. Can't wait to go back out there. Well. Yeah. I can't wait till you come back and, and keep guiding me because, uh, I'm only gonna be better as a, a, a poultry breeder and, and owner of, of beautiful animals with friendship and fellowship that I have mm-hmm.<affirmative> within this community. Thanks to you. Thank you for your time. And I, I hope that you felt this, uh, was productive and you got to be able to deep dive emotionally, the, the many layers of what it takes to be involved and to also to play to win. Yeah. Because you know exactly what it takes. So now I know. So <laugh>, watch out Switzerland, <laugh>, I'm. Coming. Watch out.<Laugh>. Yeah, I'm ready for it. You're just getting started. Thank you so much, Christian. Appreciate you. Thank you. And that was wonderful. Yeah. Thank you so much for taking the time and, um, you know, really like picking my brain. Yeah. I mean, I brought out all my, my big guns. I brought lit, I was writing notes and also looking at pictures and um, you know, these are the best references. Get all your literature in order. And also I need to get a European standard, but I also um, I guess these, these are two very helpful. Yes. But. Um, yeah, we'll have to learn German together. Yeah. I'm like, I'm pumping the breaks, but I'll get there eventually, <laugh>. So, um, thank you for having me as your interviewer on your own podcast. It was an absolute pleasure. Thank you. Thank you. And I can't wait to hear it, and I can't wait to see who else you get to talk with in the next, on the next one. You're listening to the Busy Beak podcast, where we talk about all things bird, from parrots to chickens, and everything in between. I'm your host Christian Diaz. Follow us on social media @theBusyBeak.