DD 2 - Alien V. Alien$ / Save the Cat! (Guests: Sanjeev & Audrey Elliot)

Join the crew of the Nostromo (Ben & Sanjeev) and the Sulaco (Paul & Audrey) on a deep space quest for answers on which is best between Alien (1979 Dir. Ridley Scott) and Aliens (aka Alien$ 1986 Dir. James Cameron). We discuss nuance in the horror genre, miniatures/mattes, and dudes in suits. Is it more important to put in the foundational work as the original or "inspiration,” or for big "yes, and-ing," as the sequel? Dig deep for answers about Arcturean's with us, and a certain Mr. Steven S. Whether you prefer a haunted house, or a roller coster, in the end.....it's the riiiiiiidddddddeeeee

**Next episode we will return to our standard format**

Plot:
Alien - The crew of a commercial spacecraft encounters a deadly lifeform after investigating an unknown transmission.
Alien$ - Decades after surviving the Nostromo incident, Ellen Ripley is sent out to re-establish contact with a terraforming colony but finds herself battling the Alien Queen and her offspring.

Recorded 9/23
2hr 35mins

Transcript

Welcome to the debate debate 2, an even specialer episode of the review review for spooky season. Today's case, which alien is the xenomorphiast? Ridley Scott's 1979 masterpiece Alien, or James Cameron's 1986 action spectacular, Aliens. Ben and Sanjeev will argue for the original, while Paul and Audrey will plead for the sequel. Over the next several minutes, we will discover what is truly best, more or less aliens.

There's a lot of levity to it. Anyways Yeah. Blah blah blah blah blah. No. I mean, you're you're piloting this ship.

You're Dallas here, so you can kick us off. It's it's I am from the northwest like Tom Scarritt. Don't be afraid of him. I I'm here. Let's tell our Tom Scarritt stories very quickly, shall we?

Yeah. At some point. I'll go first. I met him. Awesome.

It's good. Worked on the same TV show with him. He gently tapped me on the shoulder and said, I'm so sorry. Can I cut you in line for, crafty? I need to get my wife lunch.

And I was just like, yes, Tom Spirit. You can. Did you call him Maverick? No. Not Maverick.

Merlin. Sorry. Nope. I didn't call him, Viper either. Was he Viper or Merlin?

I wish I could remember now. Welcome everyone. Magic the magic man. To the debate debate oh, sorry. I fucked it up.

Let me go back. Welcome everyone to the Review, Review, Debate, Debate. A special episode of the Review, Review. We get to talk about 2 movies and, decide which one's better. My name is Ben and I am a host of this podcast along with My name is Paul.

I am also a host of this podcast along with I mean, well, I guess you're not a host. You're just here all the time. Yeah. I just happen to be around. We're trying to get you to be the 3rd heat.

Sanjeev. Sanjeev is here as my co counsel. Hi, everyone. And Audrey from our mystery men episode Hey, hey. Is here as my co counsel.

We are traveling on the the Suwako. We are the crew of the Suwako. We are on the Nostromo. Exactly. I would like to point out that Sanjeev has been here for Atlantis, Waterworld, and this movie, which is also very wet.

That's true. Yes. Right? Right. We're Sanjeev.

We got a liquid. Got a water A beach towel ready. Yeah. Something like that. Just like moisture dripping at every turn in space.

In and out of people. In and out of people. Yeah. So before we get into today, before we start tearing each other's heads off or, you know, ripping each other in half. That spooked me.

I mean, it is spooky season. It is spooky season. You're right. This is our debate debate for spooky season. Thanks, man.

Thanks for that, you know, dual side. You know, you're probably in the same same boat, I mean, we did just get news, the other yesterday. Yesterday. Yesterday. Yesterday.

A tentative agreement, has gone out for WGA. So Yeah. Yeah. Step 1. Step 1.

Step 1. Yeah. WGA says that it has checked all boxes. They're very excited about it. Yeah.

So Yeah. Now let's get let's get Sag in there. Yes. Let's get crewed up. Let's get back to work.

Yes. Please and thank you. Mhmm. Sanjeev, how are you? I'm just hanging in there.

You know? Yeah. A lot of journey journeying through life, figuring things out. Very excited about this industry that we love. Maybe kinda coming back to some semblance of normalcy at some point.

But, no, I'm just I'm just hanging out. I'm just here. And we thank you so much for being here again. Like, such a joy. Like, I'm so happy that we have this opportunity to do this with these folks in this medium.

I'm just so excited. Some people from some of our favorite episodes? Exactly. Exactly. Ed Zachary.

So the movies we are going to debate debate today today are Alien, which is me and Sanjeev Mhmm. And Aliens dollar sign. That is correct, counselor. I'm sorry. Yours are so much more official.

I'm like over here with the air horn, like a dick. We need like a flavor, flavor type energy. Like, one or the other, something. I'd I'm the wrong person to pick for that. I would say the air horn, against his courtroom aesthetic fits speed tonal discrepancy that alien fantasy is hitting.

Actually, I would agree with that Right. Deeply. Sometimes life brings tonal discrepancies. Wait. Does this count as maritime law?

Yeah. You're a crow. Yeah. Casting hook. Cute story though.

Won't you throw the book? Oh, man. My brain is just going on a journey of that that show. I love it so so I just love the sound of the hook falling. Yeah.

That's so great. So the let's talk about our experience with these movies, dollar sign. And just to let our audience know we aren't doing rankings yet. So if you're used to rankings now, put your dicks away. You're too Too ready.

Too thirsty. Too thirsty. You want it too bad. We'll get there. Sanjeev.

We understand everything looks Wet. Very wet. There's a lot of lubricant. Good lord. Like before, unsafe.

Yeah. That's okay. Sanjeev, do you wanna share your experience first or Yeah. Yeah. I'll start.

Please. I'll start. We're gonna we're gonna keep Ben till out to to the very end. Oh, okay. Just to, I can prepare for that.

I can write something. Right. Yeah. Alien. I'm it's one of those movies where my my it's one of the the dad movies.

Right? My dad sat me down, you know, just Alien and Aliens. Right? And none of the other movies. You know, like, it was just Alien and Aliens and then we watched Prometheus together in cinema.

Right? Like, that was it. And I actually hadn't watched Alien 3 or Resurrection until after Prometheus, which is an interesting experience. I'd I'd watch Alien at least, like, 10 times before that. Like, I've always been a an Alien super fan.

Aliens, not so much. But, you know, like, that's as far as, you know, my kind of flavor of sci fi, Alien always kind of spoke to me in a different way than, like, my other love Star Wars did, you know. And so revisited that a lot. Now go Paul. Oh, you guys are gone.

Awesome. I'll sit over here. So my first experience, it's funny. This was a dad movie that was parlayed from another dad movie. My dad rented Spaceballs, a movie that's rated PG and does, a little jokey joke, tongue in cheek thing about the chestburster.

I had to wait for years to the point where I watched Terminator 2 before I saw Alien. But I must have been 40, 45. No. But I was must have been in the, like, mid nineties that I finally watched Alien and had, like, an absolute blast in terms of just feeling, like, very claustrophobic. And one of the first, like, horror movies that not only was, like, really well done, but truly scary that I was able to, like, get through.

Was that evening pleasant or whatnot? I don't remember. I assume not. But, like, had a good time. Aliens, dollar sign.

By the way, James Cameron later confirmed that actually did happen. Tell the story in case people don't. In a meeting that he was pitching the movie to the producers at Brandywine, the folks that owned, the rights to the film and whatnot, and wrote alien on a board and then wrote an s and then eventually wrote 2, slashes through it to make a dollar sign. And that's part of what sold them because, like, how do you disagree The whole room just like food? With that emotion, bro.

Just a meme of everyone be like, oh. Yeah. And my And how Kesha got her name. Can't dollar sign, But my dad very close to watching Alien rented aliens and was like, you ready to fucking rock and roll? And like Lit a joint and essentially, like, prepared me for like, we're this is a different ride.

This isn't a haunted house. This is a roller coaster. And we're gonna stick you with adrenaline before you. Like, you we're gonna stick you with adrenaline, strap you down for half an an hour, 40 minutes, and then let you go Mhmm. On the ride.

So yeah. And I remember I saw this on my babysitter's TV for like a scene just where they were getting ready to go to battle, like, just waking up. And I was like, this is probably the greatest movie ever. And I had to wait several years, but then found out that that suspicion was essentially correct. My turn.

No such parental story. Sorry y'all. I saw both movies in kind of my, like, mid to late teens. Through friends and stuff, you brought up the Montgomery, whatever, initial frog. I had seen The Warner Brothers.

Yes. Michigan City Frog. Michigan. Whatever. The the frog.

The only reason I think of it of history. Super racist apparently. Again, I think of it because of Spaceballs, because of the scene with the tap dancing alien. So I saw that as a small child. Yeah.

And as a teenager was, like, already kind of knew what movie it was about and then to be able to see it and everything like that. I was like, hell yeah. That's where it's from. And I grew up with, 2 of my older cousins were, I wanna say, like, in their late teens when I was probably around 3 or 4 or something about and that was my introduction to most horror. So, like, I saw Freddie and Jaws and all of these different things, like, gremlins, when they were babysitting me or at least just supposed to be watching me.

I use the term babysitting very loosely. Sorry, guys. They're not listening. It's fine. But so there was a lot of stuff that I just was kind of, like, plopped behind them, like, that I recall watching.

So I know that there were snippets of these movies, but actually sitting and absorbing was probably around, like, 15, 16 years old. And the first time I saw Alien, I was blown away. So I will start this off by saying, we are arguing 2 nigh perfect movies. Phenomenal. Right.

And I would take either one of these movies any day Yeah. Than half the shit that's out there. 100%. So I love this because I love that this is, like, niche nerd bullshit fighting over things that are already perfect. Yeah.

That brings me a lot of joy. Yeah. But all of that is to say is that, like, I think alien is is excellent. I just am more partial because alien is better. No.

No. No. Whatever. But is that on the record? That's on the record.

Let me check with this. I mean, is it is it is it is They got that? Did she she got that? We don't have one. Oh, sorry.

Oh, woah. Cool. That's me. I did see the first one. Really enjoyed it.

And then, not long after, watched the second one and was just blown away and had such a great time. And then don't I I wanna say it took me a while to see 3. Mhmm. I wanna say I saw 4 before I ever saw 3. Oh, gosh.

That's interesting. But I'm also, like, a renowned writer in a row. So, like Y'know forever. Yeah. That's why Johnny Depp copied my tattoo.

Yeah. I I think I saw that one first and then kinda went back and was like, oh, Charles Dance, hottie. Here we are. Yeah, man. It's my turn.

Mhmm. I can't both these movies super late in my life. Not that I never like, I always knew they existed, but I feel like I didn't fully appreciate them till I was in college. And it was my freshman year of college was 18, and I was in a postmodern culture and film class. And we dissected Alien.

And that was the beginning of my love for the franchise. And then watched Aliens with my friends and proceeded to watch the rest of them because they had the 4 VHS set dating myself. And Alien has been a movie that, for me, I continue to come back to, kinda like what Sanjay was saying that it just really speaks to what I look for in the aesthetics of a movie, especially when it comes to, like, space horror and that whole genre. I I include underwater horror as a kind of as this kind of the same similarist genre. Leviathan with Peter Weller.

It's like Yeah. The Abyss. Very similar movie. Yeah. I just fell in love with this movie.

And, Aliens, I thought I remember first seeing Aliens and being, like, this is such a wildly different take. And I really appreciate it. So to your point, both movies, I'm a champion for and not going to besmirch yours too much. Same. Wow.

Apparently, no one has wiggled since viewing these films. No. No. No. I love that.

But you know who is wiggling? Matthew Foskett. Oh. That version is very spooky. Thank you, Matthew Foskett.

Yeah. For scaring the shit out of us. Now we're in, what are we watching? Tom. I like the theme song for that.

What are we watching? Yeah. Isn't it fun? It's real good. Yeah.

Yeah. He's doing a spooky version that we just heard. Of course. All of us just now. All of us plus Billy Zane.

Yeah. Oh, we're getting there. Billy, stay calm. Are you guys zaniacs? Is that it?

Billy term. Is that an actual term? Can it can we get shirtless? Can it can we get shirts? Did you see she made a little c with her finger with after she said it?

I think she copyrighted it. Just No. I wish I did. I I think it's Can you make a shirt to say Zayn? I would love to.

I wanna say it was from New Girl or something. Oh, it probably is. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I think Listen to your friend, Billy Zayn.

He's a cool dude. Cool dude. We're gonna talk about Titanic, Billy. We'll get there. Or James Cameron.

So what are we watching? These Oh, no. He wants to go first. What? Watching anything cool?

Well, I'll get the obvious one out of the way. I am watching Ahsoka. I absolutely love it. Okay. I don't know.

I don't know if anyone here shares the same opinion, but I think it's the best one for us since last night. I haven't watched it yet. I'm really enjoying it. Hayden Christensen's best performance as Ever. Yeah.

Anything. Yeah. Better than Life is a House? Yeah. But I never saw that.

Shattered Glass? Yeah. Yeah. He's got a couple He's he's good. He's got a couple goodies.

I think it's because he's got a couple of goodies. Dialogue is really strong. Yeah. Exactly. And he looked great in some of the preview things that I saw of it which was nice that he got an opportunity to come.

I mean, it's it's live action in a couple of moments. He crushes it. It's crazy. That's awesome. Professionally as a handsome person, he's great.

Like a charming, like, youth, like the wife. Yeah. And she's like eating his farthest out but still. Yeah. I don't So you?

There are witches in it. It's so spooky. We're also Night sisters. Night sisters. Sorry.

I'm sorry. Yeah. We're also watching Servant. The final season of Servant. Oh, yeah.

I watched all of that. Yeah. I enjoy it. I'm not gonna sit here and vouch for its quality. I would agree.

I would agree with Frank. Yeah. Like, I like watching it a lot. I don't know if it's a good show, but I recommend it. 1st season 1st season, that was very strong.

Yes. And then after that, I went, we're getting repetitive beats. Mhmm. But I still enjoyed it. Funny when you feel that way about something.

Like, I find shows every once in a while will hit you like that where you're just like, I don't know if I like it, but I'm still watching it. I'm still watching. And I'm telling other people to watch it too. It's, like, worth it. Yeah.

Yeah. It's weird. You're just invested Yeah. In something. So lame.

I have been rewatching You probably think this part is about you. You're so lame. You're so lame. Is it not? Oh, my gosh.

She's right. Yeah. It is about me. Yeah. Now I've been rewatching Frasier.

I find this thing where, and I I throw this out to most people who have any kind of, like, depression or anxiety, you need to rewatch things that you know how they end Mhmm. To sort of suit Mhmm. That's Parks and Rec for me. Yeah. Yeah.

Parks Parks and Rec Rec is 100% up there, like the Golden Girls, Archer, like a bunch of random things that I actively seek out new girl clips on TikTok. Yeah. New Girl too. Yeah. Yep.

That that's a great super fun show, like, a lot of different things where I'm like, okay. I I need just like the, like, Great British Baking Show. Oh, yeah. Oh my god. Love it.

What a great show. That's what I was gonna say. We're so in tune. We're gonna destroy you. But I wish you the best of luck.

If you need anything, like, Ben We're both wearing Mary's hair. This is gonna yeah. Benjamin, look at me. This is actually me. He wants to give me a handshake.

Oh. I'm not gonna talk to him. Don't give him This does feel like the Parks and Rec episode where the model you have. Yeah. Will you please wave his decapitated head Yeah.

On his spear part of his sweeping mother? Absolutely. We got the frigging moon, guys. We got frigging piacons. And lions for We got the t 800.

We watched some of Ozark because I need to catch up on 4. I am I am woefully behind on a lot of things, which is very sad. Cherith cute stories in that He is. Fellow Jimmy. Kinda wanna ask him, like, what is it like being part of, like, perfect comedic television and perfect dramatic television?

Like, does he just wake up in the morning being, like, I'm really great. Just piss, actually. You know what's funny is when you break down Jason Bateman in both Arrested Development and Ozark, he's doing basically the same thing. It's just in Arrested Development, he's surrounded by psychopaths. Mhmm.

But he's basically doing the same, like, calm, restrained sort of Yeah. Perform. And it's great. In my head, he's the same character that has left his family, and George Michael has somehow died or abandoned him and this is his new life. For for George Michael's betterment.

Mhmm. Yeah. But yeah. Well, and, like, Jason Bateman was involved in arguably the only perfect sequel which, like, kinda makes everything pointless for us to be here talking about this. Teen Wolf 2.

Oh. Wait. What? Wait. That's a Teen Wolf 2?

Yes. Yes. Yeah. Did he take over for me? Instead of Michael j Fox, it's Jason Bateman.

And instead of basketball, it's boxing. Sure. And instead of the dad being his dad, the same actor, is an uncle because Jason Bateman's the cousin. It is one of the truly truly awful things you're watching. So they just be in a different movie?

No. It's the exact same movie with like a different sport and the dad is now the uncle. Same movie. Seen that. This might be one of those movies where I'm like, I haven't seen that then it starts and I'm like, I've definitely seen it.

Yeah. But in like Like on the sci fi channel at like 11 o'clock tonight. Yep. No boof. Absolutely.

That's one thing that's missing. I'm I'm watching Great British Baking Baking Show. I had to catch up on 2 collections, to be honest. And part of that is just the, like, I wanna watch something pleasant and enjoyable. It's perfect for that.

Yeah. It's just so lovely. They're so supportive of each other. Just so help each other create. I will say the Roku original Great American Baking Show is pretty good.

It's not bad. Oh, okay. It's not bad. I I wasn't I was afraid I was gonna hate it Yep. And I didn't.

I haven't seen it. So Do you feel like and I I come from someone who's also a fan of Top Chef. Oh, yeah. I feel like Great British Baking Show having such a a strong amount of success trickled down into American reality competitive shows where everyone became more gentle. Yes.

Yes. Yeah. It wasn't so much about, like, competition. It was more about bonding and helping and be like, you see someone in the weeds, you could jump over, like, what can I do for you? And that happens all the time now.

That's it. Yeah. First couple seasons of Top Chef, that was not the case. Mhmm. Thank goodness.

Fucking thank God The Apprentice ended and that motherfucker like, that's, to me, that's such a huge Yeah. It became it became the government. Has always been problematic. But, like, when The Apprentice went up was on and that motherfucker was just being a monster. It's called the Republican party.

It's still on. We're still dealing with it next week. That's what I was watching. But still, so go ahead and debate. I went to, a local theater video, a revival theater, etcetera called Vidya.

It's not a sponsor. Yeah. But in Eagle Rock, they had aliens the theatrical edition on on last Thursday, and I was like, fuck it. Yeah. I'm going.

And my girlfriend is suffering from the most horrific looking bug bites you'd ever see. Like, where it's like, did she break out of the potential cocooning? Like, is she okay? She is okay, luckily. Yeah.

But, I was able to go to the movie and, like, the crowd was ruckus and just had a fucking great time. Both films are amazing crowd. With a crowd. And I haven't seen Alien in the theater, but I did watch Alien twice also. So I will admit that, like, coming into our, our little parlay here that we're gonna have.

Parlay? Yeah. I watch I I just blaze through the live action adaptation of 1 piece. Oh, yeah. How good is that?

I really enjoyed it. Nice. How was that? I surprisingly enjoyed it. Cool.

Yeah. I was like I saw the trailer. I was like, oh god. I don't think I wanna watch this. And then my friend was like, just do it.

Just give it a chance. And I was like, I tried Cowboy Bebop, and I almost I actually turned it off, like, 15 minutes into it. I couldn't do it. But 1 piece, I recommend. Super fun.

Doesn't adapt it entirely, but does a great job of adapting it for the medium Nice. For 1 hour live action episodes. And the characters are spot on. And then I also watched elemental or l yeah. Elemental, the Pixar movie.

Oh. It's a Disney plus. I think it might be, honestly, I think it might be the worst marketed best movie I've seen. Okay. Really?

Okay. I think it would have the worst marketing I'd possible. I heard that the metaphors are just, like, extremely heavy handed. They are. And Peter Son, who wrote it, like, he it's basically his life.

Like, he came or his parents came here and started, like, a little shop in, an immigrant story. But it I found myself once again in tears by the end. Oh, and it's like as I say, it's extremely heavy handed. Also, like, it's a fucking movie for children. So Yeah.

Exactly. But also, like, Inside Out doesn't try to candy coat the metaphor whatsoever. You know? It's not Right. Very clear.

They're named Me too. Joy and sadness. You know? Like, they may try to yeah. Inside Out is is wonderful.

And what if you're the wonderful person? Like, I mean, I don't have any children, but, like, if if I did, I think, like, that movie in itself, like, such a great tool explaining to children, like, how you feel the way you feel and, like, wish, like Yeah. Like, as an adult watching it Me too. Going, I wish I had this. Like, as a tool, it was like Yeah.

And it was super helpful. Yeah. I'm just like, oh, something can be sad and happy. Like Yeah. That you know, that there's nothing that's island of myself, that person part of my personality and it's okay.

Yeah. Gorgeous. I think people should watch the Simpsons with their kids. Yeah. I think it has so many Someone died.

Sorry. Paul's dead. I think it has so I just think it has so many incredible lessons. And if someone is sitting there that understands what those things are and can help inter a kid interpret them, like, holy shit. How effective it can be.

I agree with that. Like, I I haven't seen him since he's past a certain season. But Same. So I cannot speak to you anything past. I don't even know what number.

3 through 9 specifically. Okay? What a great Shonkos. Is it bad if I admit that I've never watched the Simpsons? No.

Not at all. But that just means that we're gonna tie you up and take you and make you watch the Simpsons. I've maybe watched, like, a couple episodes, like, when it's on TV. I think if you have Disney plus, I feel like it's it's a worthy adventure. Okay.

If there's someone whose taste that you really trust that really loves that show and you're like, give me half a dozen episodes to watch Paul will give you it. Then He'll give you. Yeah. Oh oh, amazing. Thank you.

I did not like Waterworld, everyone. So I am trustworthy. Approved. Yes. If you watch that half a dozen episodes and you're not sold, let it go.

Like, if you were sold, you are going to be in a fantastic journey, my friend. You're having a wonderful time. From Disney plus is listening. If there's a way to loop Treehouse of Horror so that during Halloween, we can just watch one after another. I I'd really love it if you want to do it.

Very important information Thank you. To give to the people. Yes. Because I feel like there's other things. I was thinking that too for Christmas.

I was like Yeah. Dear Peacock, just give me all the Office Christmas episodes. Yeah. Yes. Like, if there's a way to do it.

Or if somebody out there There is a way to do it. Is smarter than me and can teach me because I'm feeble of brain. This is, like, the wrong menu for this, but I will I'll share this just, like, bewildering thought that anywhere I can. Right? Like, I don't understand how streaming services don't have just, like, a here's The Office channel, and it's, like, random Office stuff.

And then during seasonal times, yeah, here's, like, a loop of Totally. Of episodes. Right? Like, why can't I go why can't I go on, like, Peacock and be, like, I just wanna watch The Office on loop while I do my work. Yeah.

Right? Peacock or, you know, like, spotify where you could be, like, I want Office radio. So it might be, like, Office, Parks and Rec. Right. Might jump to cheers or something, like, you know, give me give me, like, items.

Brooklyn 99. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Mhmm.

All all all genres. Right? That would be great. Why can't because that's why you used to turn to, like, Comedy Central. Right?

Yeah. But just like Yeah. Just recreating. Yeah. Everyone be quiet.

They could be listening. But also, like, do it, guys. Because then also to all of the, like, Halloween Brooklyn 99 episodes. Yes. Yes.

Like, every I just want a lot of, like, solid, like, chunks of holiday TV. Can I just go I am lazy? And I'll watch it. That's a threat. I'll watch it.

Yeah. I'll keep it on. I just want a loop of the chili dropping episode. Yeah. Actually, just a clip.

That's right. Do that. I have only seen the first season of the American Office. I'm so sorry. I woke up now.

Worst season. I know. Actually, not the worst season. Sorry. It was not.

The the last few Yeah. It's one of the it's it's not found its groove yet. Season 3 is something super super special in my opinion. 44 as well. Yeah.

I've seen snippets of things that I think are very funny and but I've I've never, like, sat down and gotten, like, into it as a show, and I hate to sound like that dick. It's like, well, I've seen the British office. Sure. It's like, oh, that's I I did I did not goated. But that's me.

Goated. And I did see the British office. I do love it. I love it too. But, they're very different.

They're different. Yeah. There's a reason why that first show spawned shows in, like, how many places has it been licensed? Like, 64 countries. Countries which is news today is that they might be rebooting the office.

I heard. Right? Well, like, how can you not? Everybody works in some sort of corp well, not everybody, but a lot of people work in that sort of environment and things like that. So it's sort of timeless.

Yes. That way, Michael Scott reels against remote work is gonna be really fun. Welcome to office ladies, by the way. We're so glad you came. I just wanna say really Hi, Kathy.

Really quickly also. It was expressed a layer of disappointment in 2,008 when the WGA ended their strike The rebates. And came back. It was communicated with, like, great enthusiasm, from where we're coming from now. Mhmm.

And I just, like, for whomever might be listening to this, like, we've been walking with these folks for months, weeks, whatever, etcetera, etcetera. Like, holy shit. Wow. Way to go. I just wanna make sure.

Yeah. I know it's all we've all said it. But Quite quite honestly, like, it it puts it put me in a immediately better mood. Yeah. Good.

You know? Right? All of us. Right? Yeah.

And can't wait to see what what comes out of it. All the work that everyone gets to do now. And the same thing applying for our sack, hopefully. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Hopefully quickly. Yep. Yep. Mhmm. Okay.

Well, here we go. They're getting their files together. Okay. They're deliberating. Whispering down the papers that they're doing something that they watched alien twice.

I know. But also, I'm guessing that I'll wait. That is because you were inebriated and I was also inebriated at some point. This is what they have against us. Oh, shit.

Am I sober? Oh, no. I'd like to request a recess. We might yeah. I gotta get we might We should turn this into a tetherball man.

Ladies and gentlemen of the cinema jury, today, me and my co counsel here, we wanna talk to you about a little film called Alien from 1979, rated R. Brandywine Productions and 20th Century Fox distributed. It is a 116 minutes. The tagline of this film is, in space, no one can hear you scream. One of the greats.

That's so good. The budget for this movie was 11,000,000. Adjusted, that is 46,500,000. Opening weekend, May 25, 1979, 3,500,000. Adjusted, that is 14,900,000.

First, final domestic gross, 78,900,000. Adjusted 333.9. Final worldwide gross, a 143,000,000, adjusted 604 Wow. Dollars. Other releases this Memorial Day weekend, The Prisoner of Zenda, Last Embrace.

One of my favorites. God, that movie is so hot. Starring Zenda? Johnny, Farts A Lot and Old Magda Yeah. Farface.

Big fan. Top 5 films of 1979. Superman Mhmm. The Amityville Horror, Rocky 2, Star Trek The Motion Picture. Oh, so boring.

Yeah. And this at number 5. Other films of note from 1979, Apocalypse Now. Fantastic. Not later.

It's got an exclamation mark. It wants you to know. Wasn't there one earlier? There was apocalypse. On August 6th at some point.

There was the apocalypse prequel. Yeah. Apocalypse beginnings. Apocalypse redux? Yeah.

Apocalypse beginnings. Oh, yeah. I'd actually have that on the dividend. The Jerk, Moonraker, Meatballs, Escape from Alcatraz. Oh, no.

It's so good. You like what, Moonraker? Moonraker. Oh, it's ridiculous. It's one of the great bad movies.

It's so good. It's ridiculous. He's one of my favorite movies. National Lampoon's Animal House, which is a movie my father sat me down and watched when I was like Woah. 19.

Yeah. Tom Hoch represent. Fiddler on the Roof, also a movie that my father made me watch. Mhmm. Mhmm.

And The Frisco Kid, which I had to put in there. Because your father made you watch it? Yeah. K. Letterbox average for this movie is 4.3.

Speaking of Letterbox, for those of you don't know, I'm on Letterbox. You can give me a follow. I'm at run bmc. I'm at paulaxbadleyesquirethe4th BMW. And we are Wild Stallion.

At Law. This is brought to you by Wyld Stellian's At Law. He's an Esquire. It's spooky that they're lawyers, isn't it? It is.

That's our tagline. It's on the business card which is in Bone. It is a Bone business card. In case you don't know Sisko and Ebert, they gave this movie 2 thumbs up. And Rotten Tomatoes has it at 98%.

That's insane. I would like now to throw it to my co counsel Sanjeev and he's gonna tell you about some people. Yeah. So directed by Ridley Scott, you may have heard of him. Blade Runner, Gladiator, The Martian, Black Hawk Down, Thelma and Louise.

Okay. Also House of Gucci. Why can't you print that one out? This is our case. You should see Jared Leto.

Mario Mario. I'll never forgive him. I dig a gap. But we'll forgive him. A caca.

Writers, written by Dan O'Bannon. RIP. He wrote Dark Star, Heavy Metal, Total Recall. So glad you mentioned Dark Star. Yeah.

Just in case. Had to bring it up. Yep. Absolutely have to. Because without Dark Star, where would Alien be?

Yeah. For sure. Also written by Ronald Shusett, King Kong Lives. Also Total Recall, Above the Law? Above the Law.

Nice. That's your favorite movie. Right, Paul? My that's my favorite seagull. Yeah.

Yeah. Absolutely. He hits a guy in the face with a pool ball. Yeah. Yeah.

It's very good. It was nominated for an Oscar for best guy getting hit in the face with a pool ball. Guy gets hit in the face with a pool ball. Guy gets hit in the face with a pool ball. And then Steven Seagal accepted the Oscar exactly as we remember in real history.

In in his linens? Yes. In his finest linens. If anyone heard that song, I hope so. I don't know what you just said, but Steven Seagal had a singing career.

Sorry. Thank God Audrey knew. Sorry. I'm done. Director of photography.

You almost forget that we were doing like the names. Yeah. Director of photography. Derek Van Lindt, RIP. Dragon Slayer and the spreading ground.

Literally, that's all I did. Woah. And this movie. Holy shit. That's really impressive.

And he and yeah. Music by Jerry Goldsmith, who did the Burbs, the Mummy, the Universal theme, the Star Trek theme. So much more. Yeah. Universal theme, like that's The Paramount theme.

We've gone over this this gentleman's I had to include the resume because it's good. Yep. I don't need Sure. Yeah. Mhmm.

Produced by Gordon Carroll, RIP. He did Cool Hand Luke, Blue Thunder. David Giler, RIP as well. A lot of RFPs in this one. Tales from the Crypt he did.

He had all the Tales from the Crypt. All of the Billy? From my Crypt. Steak? Billy's Steak song?

No. It's okay. Alright. And Walter Hill, who produced red heat red heat. Starring Sigourney Weaver as Allen Ripley.

You know her from Avatar, from Alien and franchise. Galaxy Quest, Gorillas in the Mist, Ghostbusters, Cabin in the Woods. Great little cameo in Cabin in the Woods. Tom Tom Skerritt as Dallas, who is in Top Gun. Steel Magnolia's Contact.

John Hurt, RIP. These are sad RIP. Yeah. As Kane. Also, RIP.

Kane, spoilers. Harry Potter, 1984, The Elephant Man, Midnight Express, and Crystal Skull. Indiana Jones. Indiana Jones. Indiana Jones.

Temple of America. Kingdom. Veronica Cartwright as Lambert. Oh, so good. Very good.

Yeah. She was in The Birds, The Witches of Eastwick, Invasion of the Body Snatchers. Yeah. Great. Yaphet Kato, I think.

Koto. Kato. Yeah. RIP. That's Parker.

Live and Let Die, Midnight Run, and Homicide Life on the Street TV movie. TV show. Show. Movie intro. Yeah.

Yeah. Mhmm. Fucking great. Harry Dean Stanton. Not Harry Dean.

Not Stanion? Not Stanion. It's not Harry Dean Stanion. My poster though, it is. That I purchased on my wall would tell you.

Oh, I always say Stantion. I have no idea. The the the poster says Harry Dean Stanion. That's sad. It does.

Harry Dean Stanion. Stantion. Stantion. Stantion. And Brett.

Also in Wild at Heart, Twin Peaks, Fire Walk With Me. Fire Walk With Me. And The Last Temptation of Christ. And Ian Holm, RIP, as Ash. For the Lord of the Rings movies, Brazil, Time Bandits, and the Mel Gibson Hamlet.

He plays Polonius. He's very good in that movie. The movie is not good. Yeah. But Ian Holm's wait.

Ian Holm? Ian Holm. Yeah. He's fucking amazing. Yeah.

The perfect Bilbo Baggins? I mean, come on. The only. I did like Martin Freeman. I don't like those movies.

I have never liked Martin Freeman though. The Peter Jackson Hobbit films. He does a good job of kind of blending, like, bring Holmes thing to what he does. I think I think he does a good job. Okay.

The movies aren't good though. Don't watch them. Got it. Alien also won and was nominated for a lot of awards. Alien won the 1980 Academy Award for best visual effects.

It's Oscar nominated for the Academy Award for best visual effects. It was Oscar nominated for the best art direction. And the Satin Awards, it won best sci fi film, best direction for Ridley Scott, and best supporting actress for Veronica Cartwright. Well deserved. That's great.

Yeah. Nominated by BAFTA, the British Academy of Film and Television Arts, for best costume design, best editing, definitely, best supporting actor for John Hurt, and most promising newcomer to to leading film role for Sigourney Weaver, the call. She had only done Broadway before this. Yeah. She had done maybe a few things on camera, but, like, this is her big first, and she she was mostly a Broadway actor.

Her her dad's ran to the NBC for a long long time. Interesting. Yeah. And that's not to take anything away from her. No.

Totally. Totally. Yeah. All. Alien also won a Hugo Award for best dramatic presentation and was nominated for a British Society of Cinematographers award for best cinematography.

Oh, shit. I should okay. I should've gone with, like, all 80 nominations that Aliens had. Got it. Got it.

Well, you didn't. Yeah. BSCs. Look at my fucking ass. Award for best cinematography and special effects at the San Sebastian International Film Festival.

Good lord. And Jerry Jerry Goldsmith, of course, was nominated for a bunch. He received nominations for the Golden Globe Award for best original score, the Grammy Award for best soundtrack album, and won a BAFTA Award for best film music. Okay. Yeah.

Fun little facts. Objection. Yeah. Filibustering enough. Fun fun little facts.

It was originally called Starbeast. Dan O'Bannon struggled to find a better replacement until one late night writing session, he was writing dialogue, which the crew members discussed the alien and then the word jumped out at him and he definitely didn't call Arvies. Thank Christ. Oh, yeah. Woof.

Oh, yes. I'm so sorry. Okay. Initially, Alien wasn't an easy sell. O'Bannon and Ronald Shusett, she said.

Yeah. Well Bounced between producers for a while, almost landing a deal with b movie legend Roger Carmen, who did the Edgar Allan Poe movies. But the script eventually went to a new company, Brandywine, who had ties to 20th Century Fox. They asked for a lot of rewrites, and then Star Wars came and took over the world, the box office, all of it. Every studio in town wanted to get anything sci fi into production, and Alien got the green light.

Could you imagine this is a Corman movie? Oh my god. Like, what on I mean, like, it would be amazing. I mean, yeah. It'd be amazing.

But also just, like, so ridiculous. And, like, we wouldn't have any yeah. Like, we wouldn't even be sitting out here. From the company that brought you the toxic Avenger and Cannibal the musical and the movie you loved most, Orgazmo. Starbeast.

Alien. Starbeast becomes They would just call it Starbeast. Yeah. This is pretty well known, but it's important to mention that all the aliens in the movie were designed by the surrealist painter, HR Giger. O'Bannon handpicked him for Alien.

He had first met Giger in Paris while working on Alejandro Jodorowsky's failed Dune movie Mhmm. Where O'Bannon asked the artist why he took opium. Giger replied, I'm afraid of my visions. O'Bannon assured him it was only in his mind, and he said, that is what I'm afraid of. Oh, that's good actually.

That's really good. Very good. Not your impression. Well, he's Dutch. So that's why it feels weird to you.

Let me try it again. No. No. He's not. We got everything we need.

We'll be in touch. That's okay. No. It's like gold. No.

We got it. Gold member. I am Dutch. No. I get it.

We got it. Thank you so much. Okay. Great. Great.

Yeah. We'll call it. I can do others. Yeah. No.

That's yeah. We got it. South African, New Zealand. Nice. Oh, they also oh, right.

Okay. Yeah. We got it. Thank you. Speaking of the Dutch segue, Dutch customs officials, once stopped Geiger because they thought his paintings were photographs and would deeply disturbed.

Same. I I get it. Yeah. Sure. Have you ever looked at a Geiger book?

Just like Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. And you're like, oh, Very, sexually disturbed sexually what I yeah. Person. BDSM maybe?

Yeah. Yeah. Ripley was originally written as a male character. O'Bannon and Chessett wrote the entire cast as men, but they left a note in the screenplay that the crew is unisex and all parts are interchangeable for men and women. And in the end, O'Bannon actually got very pushy that the first person that is impregnated, implanted, taken over, or whatnot was a man because it's he, in his opinion, was was scarier that way, like, subverting the yeah.

Who was carrying. Ash, the secretly android member of the crew played by Inholm, did not appear in O'Bannon's script. He was invented by the producers. While Shuset loved the edition, O'Bannon was less enthusiastic. A great edition though.

Mhmm. A really critical edition. Yeah. Yeah. All the horror unfolds aboard a spaceship dubbed Nostromo.

The name was ripped from the title of the 19 04 novel by Joseph Conrad, which follows an Italian explorer sent to South America to plunder a silver mine. This is at the moment where we are going to ask Audrey. Now we can deliberate here. Correct? Sure.

I'll give you delivery. K. This is the You'll make the ultimate choice. This is for the lot. What is the lot?

I'm kind of a smoothie. So I mean, it's it's a group of a group of space truckers. A group of. I don't think it's a group of space truckers. A group of.

I don't think it's a group of space truckers. A group of. Sexy. Group of space truckers. Oh, sexy space No.

In Is this on the record? We're del this is We're deliberating. It's like Jeff file in front of your face? Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Do the like, we're sports coaches. Contract based space. This. I'm sorry. The crew of a It's a good start.

Deep Space Transport? Yeah. Right. Yeah. Deep Space Transport, encounters a life form based on its distress call.

Yeah. Based on a distress call from I I wanna, like, make sure I'm, like, sticking it to the company all the time. I know. But now on a distress call. Based on a distress call, and, it's so funny.

Like, my brain immediately goes to, like, comedy ones. It's like, and hilarity ensues, but it does not. Yeah. You're on an express elevator to hell. I mean, you got it pretty close.

Yeah. You basically got it. Yeah. Okay. A space crew ab aboard a cargo ship investigates a distress signal allowing a deadly alien life form to stow a part of your ship intent on killing them off 1 by 1.

Intent on killing them 1 by 1. Killing them. Right. Got it. Okay.

Spooky. Just making sure. That is spooky, though. It is spooky. So yeah.

Mhmm. Well, that is, our fact sheet. We we rest the fact sheet. Thank you so much. Mhmm.

Really appreciate that. Mhmm. Thank you, for also not presenting that to us in discovery as we responded in kind and did not allow you to see our research during discovery. Aliens, Fox, Brandywine, 1986, rated r. Warning time is 2 hours and 17 minutes.

In terms of Alien, who watched the theatrical cut? Raise your hand. Oh, man. I watched what was on Hulu. Yeah.

I watched what was on Hulu. Probably probably theatrical? Yeah. Who watched the director's cut? Raise your hand.

No one? In terms of aliens, who watched the theatrical cut? Raise your hand. Hulu. Hulu.

So probably, who watched the special edition? Raise your hand. Both of us? I would like it to be put on record that Paul is still raising his hand. Uh-huh.

Uh-huh. So I I also did text Paul. I was like, should am I supposed to watch all 4 versions of this? Because I'll do it. And my response was, yeah.

Are you dedicated? Do you want this job? Do you want this job? Or do you wanna work in this law? How hungry are you?

You get credit and exposure. Yeah. I know. And a pizza party. Yeah.

And a pizza party at the end. I know. And I know we're like a family. Yeah. So I feel good about it.

All my choices. So budget, 18,500,000, which is 51,800,000 adjusted for opening weekend, which was July 18th 1986. 10,000,000, which is 28,000,000 adjusted, which is the final gross for North America. 85,200,000, which is 238,700,000 adjusted, which was the final gross worldwide. That's gonna be a 131,000,000, which is 367,000,000 adjusted.

So, like, no way in terms of based on all these adjustments and stuff of, like, what technically really outgrossed, But we know that we know aliens cost more money almost assuredly. Yeah. I also don't find money to be a metric to No. Gauge upon. Not at all.

Would you like me to tell you about the other releases this weekend? It would be great. I would love to. You should tell me. Also them.

Let's do it. Vamp. It's a horror sex comedy, like, kind of in the vein of fright night, but not good. I'm not sold. The Weeknd top 5, aliens dollar sign, Karate Kid 2, Ruthless People, Back to School, and Top Gun starring Tom Skerritt.

Tom Skerrittet. Top 5 films this year domestic were Top Gun starring Tom Skerritt, Crocodile Dundee. This is an arth. Karate Kid 2, Back to School, and this film also coming in 5th in its year of release. Similar to Alien.

Mhmm. Films of note from 1986, another Star Trek movie, but a good one. Star Trek 4. Oh. The voyage home.

With the humpback whales, you're the one with the whales. You're the one with the whales. Jewel of the Nile, Running Scared, Poltergeist, 2. Friday 13th part 6, Jason Lives, undeniably the best. Friday 13th film.

Will that be on the debate debate episode? I hope not. It may. I hope not. You may get that lucky and David Cronenberg's masterpiece, The Fly.

The letterbox to average on this film is 4.2. You can follow me at paulaxbadlyesquireSimpsons episode 3 horror tree house. That one. Who are you, Ben? They already know.

I already told them. Oh, cool. We've already done this tango. I wanna make sure we already did this Chuck Tango or Charles Dance, Alien 3. Siskel and Ebert Ebert quoted this sequel in many ways better than the original.

This movie was a split. Siskill being quoted as saying his main issue with aliens was that there was a child in peril. And he feels that that is cheap and a child in peril. And he feels that that is cheap, and that was the reason he mainly did not like the movie. Interesting.

So split there. Rotten Tomatoes, 98%. Wow. Oh, well, super high. Oh, let's all be very impressed like we were with alien.

I'm drinking wine. You have the best co counsel, Paul. Was your mother here? Hi. I'm Cher.

Cute story. Yes. My mother was here. I'm sorry. My turn.

Okay. Our director, Jim, James, Jimmy Cameron. Oh, Jimmy. Yeah. Love him.

We are dear friends. Not at all. Terminator 2, Judgement Day. True Lies. Titanic.

Woah. Billy. Billy. Yes. We said Titanic.

Calm down, Billy. He do okay. That's fine. Our writers are Jim Kam, The Terminator, Strange Days, Walter Hill, Red Heat, The Warriors. I love The Warriors.

David Giller, RIP, Fun With Dick and Jane, The Money Pit. Oh, it's good. These are are these the producers or the Writers. Oh. Your DP director of photography is Adrian Biddle, also RIP, Thelma Louis, Ridley Scott, and 14/92, Conquest of Paradise, also Ridley Scott, The Mummy.

Also, this was his first movie. Oh. So similar to what you said about the DP from Alien having a very small resume, the DP of this film was the focus puller on Alien. Interesting. And this was his first work as DP.

And Ridley Scott, who directed Alien, was like, this guy is so fucking good who made the sequel to the movie I made. Like, wow. I gotta, like, bring this guy onto my shit because he makes my shit look way better than it had before. Derek had died before they made the sequel. Well, that might be part of it too.

So let's cut that. Part of it? I'm just kidding you, Derek. God bless it. There's a lot of RFPs in my video.

I want you to know I'm gonna be lying a lot. Oh, yes. I'm against myself finally. Perfect. So our Scorpion person.

Scorpion. Yay. Get over it. Get over here. Here.

I was gonna say, I don't know. Music. James Horner, RIP, Titanic, New York, Mask of Zorro. That was a good movie. Our producers are Walter Hill, Alien, Tales from the Crypt, Demon Knight.

Oh, Billy. Billy. Gary and Hurd, Armageddon Tremors. I love Tremors. So good.

What a great movie. David Giller Giler something. Alien 3, Tales from the Crypt, bordello of blood. You're not in that one, Billy. Gordon Carroll, also RIP.

Cool Hand Luke, the best of times. Moving on to our cast, we have Sigourney Weaver playing Ellen Ripley. Ellen fucking Ripley. That's right. In Aliens, it's Ellen fucking Ripley.

Okay. Gorillas in the mist, Avatar, Working Girl Good Gorillas. Finding Dory. Good Gorillas. Yeah.

Finding Dory. Yeah. Let's pull She slammed in that. I'm just gonna throw that out there. Hell, yeah.

Yeah. She absolutely did. She played herself. It was really just a voice. That's right.

Yeah. She's the voice of the Ikaria. Yeah. The Ikaria. Yeah.

So good. Michael Bean, Hicks, The Abyss, Tombstone, The Rock. Who came on after shooting had begun to replace James Remar from the Warriors for Oh. Personal reasons. So again, like this guy came in after shooting had already begun.

Yeah. Good for him. He's really good. Yeah. Right.

Wow. Difficult thing. Difficult thing to do. Mhmm. One of my fun facts involves that, but we'll talk about that later.

We will. Sorry. That's okay. Carrie Henn, Newt. No credits.

She left showbiz. Good for her. She got a nomination for a Saturn Award for best young performer. But, yeah, she made the right choice. Yeah.

There's everybody at this table who works in the entertainment industry Yeah. And is in a podcast Don't ever say that. About me. Don't ever say that. Yeah.

Paul Reiser, Burke, Beverly Hills Cop, Whiplash, Behind the Candelabra. Stranger Things. He actually plays the same character. Mad About You. Yeah.

I forget who was in Whiplash. Oh, as the dad. Yeah. He's a great actor. Truly.

Bill Paxton, very big RIP. RIP. Hudson, Frailty, Twister, Apollo 13. Amazing. So many more things.

Amazing. Cool musician. Cool dude. Amazing actor. Lance Henriksen, Bishop.

So good. Pumpkinhead, Stone Cold, Hard Target, Quick and the Dead. Also in the Aliens versus Predator franchise? Yes. Alien 3 as, Weyland.

As Weyland. Oh shit. Yeah. Glenn Weyland. Absolutely.

Great. Jennette Goldstein. Represent. Vasquez. Yeah.

Does she represent? Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. The wrong turn there, Paul.

All oddly representing dual factions of me Mhmm. But that's okay. We'll talk about that. I'm sure. Lethal Weapon 2, Near Dark, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.

And I wanna say the actor who plays Drake is also in Lethal Weapon 2. Love that. And in Lethal Weapon as well. So Their on screen chemistry is fucking phenomenal. They seem like they've been through the shit together a few times.

It's so good. Awards and nominations for this film. This was an Oscar nominee for best music, best editing, best sound, best art direction, and best actress in a leading role. I don't know who won. I'm almost sure it was Meryl Streep.

And I don't know what it was for, but it was a fucking robbery. I'm looking at what else was released this year, so I'm kinda like Please do. Who from Crocodile Dundee won? Everyone. Paul Hogan for best actress in Aliens and Crocodile Dundee.

Asmail Street. Oscar winner, best sound effects, best visual effects. This movie actually infuriated a bunch of the producers after viewing it because despite liking the movie, they were like, how over budget are we? What did you not report? Etcetera.

Because the miniatures were so convincing that they were literally fuming That's awesome. After seeing the movie. So great. Well deserved Oscars. Golden Globe nominee for best actress in a leading role drama for Sigourney Weaver.

BAFTA nominee for makeup, production design, visual effects. Kicking it over some fun facts. The scene where Bishop shows his knife skills was changed on the day to add Bill Paxton's hand being shoved in. That was suggested by Lance Henriksen, and Cameron thought it was a great idea because the scene needed something extra. Great change.

Yeah. Good. I just had a nice lunch. And Paxton was like, fuck. What are you doing, man?

What are you doing? Super good. It's great. Sigourney Weaver's Oscar nominated performance joined a few others to have won or been nominated for the award in a horror film. Ruth Gordon in Rosemary's Baby in 1968, and later, Kathy Bates in Misery in 90 and Jodie Foster in 92.

This one too. To be a part of. Yeah. It's when I feel like to most people, I feel like if you get deep into any of the fandom You know this now. It's a common knowledge.

British crew was openly hostile to James Cameron and Gale Anne Hurd. In their eyes, Cameron was a nobody who had not made a decent film as they had not seen Terminator despite Cameron arranging an advanced crew screening and openly mocked her by claiming she only produced because she's married to Cameron and that they would not take orders from a woman. Cameron and Heard despise the crew's outward lazy, insolent, and arrogant behavior. After the long and difficult shoot, Cameron personally addressed the crew saying thing that kept him going through it all, certain knowledge that one day I would be driving out of Pinewood and never come back, and you sorry bastards would still be here. Fuck.

Yeah. Cameron indeed never went back. I have slight issue with this because if you were going to another country and I, like, I get it because on the one hand, like, as a filmmaker, you you're especially an American one, you're on such a specific, like, time frame and we work a specific way and everything. Yeah. But, like and this is a lame comparison.

They want tea. Yeah. Like, that like, we break at 4, bro. So my my lame comparison is I did a homework movie in Fiji. And you're on island time, bro.

Like Yes. That's that's it. Like, you're you're working on an island, and you can be, like, an American or Australian filmmaker at however much you want to, like, rush your crew or expect something or think certain things are going to be the way they are, but they're just not. And so, you know It it's in it would be interesting on his side about this. To be there Sure.

And figure out exactly, like, where that line in the sand is. Absolutely. And I mean, like, a lot of it too just boils down to, like, it's miscommunication. Like, I think I think with so many people, like, to be able to communicate with a new person really well and understand, like, how you speak to each other, how you work well together takes at least a month. And that's coming from 2 people who are willing to jump in with respect and all of that stuff, and so it takes time and effort.

And if you're if you're younger, if you're James Cameron I asked for dating is kind of a dick. I I was gonna say, I've heard it's very difficult to work with. Lot a lot of people have a lot of specific ways that they work and things like that. So, yeah, I I for sure that portion of it has always, like, sat ill with me because I will always sort of mildly side with crew. No.

Of course. And not mildly. I I will. It's just like inter it's interesting to think for me, like, if if there hadn't been this level of, like, and that's the thing is, like, we should resist. Right?

We should always question. We should always wanna disrupt. But, like, if everybody hadn't just immediately assumed, like, Ridley Scott is my guy, fuck this guy Sure. Like, and been on his schedule, what if they could take t at 4 and whatever whatever? It's like maybe coming in with a different attitude would have turned out different, but I also just, like, sucks for everybody that it turned out the way that it did in terms of the experience, but also bully for us that it turned out the way that it did as a movie because that level of, like, tension is, like, palpable on screen to some degree.

I don't know. I know. Shitty to say. But It's it's true. Yeah.

You're you're absolutely right. And I agree with that. Thank you. We're on the same fucking TV shit. We're falling apart.

You're number 1, and I love you. Bill Paxton improvised many lines, including game over, man. Game over. I just I'm not doing any justice to that. Game over, man.

Game over. I know. It's hard to justice to that. Game over, man. Game over.

Really have this. Not doing any justice to that. Game over, man. Game over. That's really good.

Thank you. Yeah. That was good. Yeah. And we're on express elevator to hell going down that don't appear in the shooting script.

Marketing experts later said that aliens probably helped save Fox, which was in desperate need of a hit at the time. Wow. I wonder how many great Fox movies came after this movie that saved Fox. Maybe movies just won't even exist at all. It's so good that the first one came out.

So this one Yeah. And or Dark Star or whatever. Or it's like Mean Streets maybe, but Goodfellas is maybe better than Mean Streets despite Mean Streets coming first. Right? As we discussed sequel to Mean Streets.

Another point. No. But just because something comes before doesn't mean it's better. Didn't we make this point go another episode? But if it sequelizes it Oh, god.

Okay. There are exceptions to this rule. Okay. It's not I mean It's part of a franchise. And oranges, brother.

Is it really? Interesting. Interesting take. So one of the alien eggs used in the film is now exhibited in the Smithsonian Institute in Washington DC. Wait.

Oh, from this film? Yes. Not from Alien. No. Specifically, the alien egg from Aliens is in the Smithsonian.

How's based on the interest of production of Aliens? You mean that the alien egg? Somehow somehow it got better. And everyone was just like, I agree. And the Smithsonian was like, yeah.

This is better. Let's take a look. Couldn't get the ones from alien because those are too precious. Those ones are worth that. They're faberge eggs.

Those ones are just faberge eggs. Yours are filled with chocolate and cream. Delicious. I would rather have a Cadbury egg, maybe. A Cadbury a Cadbury facehacker.

That'd be so good. Full of full of peeps. Charlie. Yeah. You eat me, like, a cookie or whatever.

Probably, yeah. Girls are and one last little fun fact, because you brought up the fact that Hicks was recast. So this is a costume fun fact because I am a costume designer. The cast was asked to decorate their own Yes. Armor and their weapons, however they saw fit, so they put, like, their own graffiti, their own whatever, onto their uniforms.

And because Hicks was recast, he came uniforms. And because Hicks was recast, he came on after his costume had already been Oh, wow. Decorated and things like that. So he hadn't necessarily decorated his own, but still made it work. This little heart in a lock.

I thought it was I thought it was great, like, where you see, like, where it says, like, adios or whatever on people's guns or whatever. And on that note, before we throw it to y'all for what the hell this thing is, I wanna note that the first scene that we see all of them together in the mess after they wake up from their deep hyper sleep, that was the last scene that was shot because they not only went through a boot camp together and stayed together for a while before shooting, they shot everything else in terms of the combat stuff and deaths well, not always death scenes, but death scenes, whatever, first, and then came back and shot that. So they'd have that camaraderie. That's cool. Works well.

Is it a honors? Would you, would you like to do the honors, please? You can ask them, ask them to do the honors. Yeah. Zog lines.

Don't give them time. Just do it. No. Yeah. They don't.

I mean, they did give us Fuck them. Not oh, you're right. Yeah. But they're still gonna deliver it because they're not doing it. You can still yeah.

But we can throw it out anyway. It doesn't give me my chance. Let's see. Doesn't sound like one. Hit it.

Yeah. Back to to it discovers. Okay. I think I got a rough idea. Right.

Go for it. Who's delivering the information? Thank you. This has been. Thank you.

Okay. And will you be deliberating or, I'm I'm so sorry. We're discussing with your co counsel potentially? We've discussed. Okay.

Alright. It's gonna be a fluid delivery. But there's a lot of fluid involved. See, cats moist. Ellen Ripley leads a group of space marines back to the moon or planet whatever it is back to the planet to discover a colony has been overtaken by a By aliens.

By by by multi By aliens. By multiple aliens. I mean Pretty close. Closies. It was exactly right except for it just says Do we need Ellen fucking Ripley.

Do we need to include Newt? Is there Newt in there? There's no Newt. Oh, okay. Deny.

Decades after surviving the Nostromo incident, Ellen Ripley is sent out to reestablish contact with the terraforming colony, but finds herself battling the alien queen and her offspring. Oh, interesting. They will just then negate the, The marines? The marines and tell you how the ending is. Yep.

And that sounds more like a sequel to Italy. Yeah. It really does. Yeah. Well, here we are, at the endpoint where I don't think we'd actually did, but now we can share our rankings quickly before we take a break.

I think that's great. Should should we keep the same order I think we should. That we've been doing? That puts it on Sanjeev. Are you okay with that?

Just for expedition. Both or RBG? I think we can give both. Okay. Boom.

Boom. Okay. Right. For alien, it's a 5 mysterious AI lady, mother out of 5 mother. Jack GPT?

Hal. I mean, sorry. No mother. Not Hal. Mother.

Sorry. And for aliens, it's a 4 ripped apart androids. Okay. Out of 5. So for alien, that's gonna be a 4.5, Michigan jfrogs.

Oh, no. Sorry. Well, now we gotta keep it. No. Don't apologize.

No. I'm the one getting canceled. Same team. And then for aliens, that's going to be a 5 out of 5 male Octorian Punting. It doesn't matter when it's Octorian, baby.

In terms of the original, I'm going to go with 4 gallons of milk. Okay. Mhmm. In terms of I mean, that's for me the definitive, milk blood Android thing. Yeah.

And for aliens, we're going with 5 Cat 5000 power loaders. Are you fucking kidding me? He reused that in Avatar. Oh, I'm sorry. Are you comparing Avatar to aliens?

You get away from her, you bitch. This is a Special thing we're talking about. The retrick, Johnny. So I think it's pretty easy for me. It's 5 orange cats for Alain.

Oh, bam. And This one stared me down while I watched this movie. Yeah. You've got Joe. Father.

And for aliens, it's, 4 and a half giant gun cranes. Yeah. Cool. Cool weapon design. It's based on the camera.

They use they use that technology for holding large cameras. Which I feel like she could be or could have had a different career as, like, a steady cam op. Yeah. Because that was I'm really good at it. Spot on.

Like, she's so great. Before we go to break, I actually had to use a rig like that, Ben, when I met your wife when we worked on Grim. Oh, shit. I had a rig like that hooked to me as we're running through the woods from Bigfoot and all. And I remember 2nd AD or 3rd AD saying to me, like, yeah.

And if you fall, man, like, the rig, the kit, that's like $65,000 and what and I'm just like Terrified. I'm staring at him. Like an orange cat? Staring at him like, Jonesy, you shithead. You're staying here.

Yeah. And I just stared at him and he goes, but, like, try to protect yourself, of course. I was like, this like, he could see in my eyes like, maybe this is why I don't work more. Like, I was like, fuck your camera. Like, the way I was like, you're telling me to jump over a rock head first and you're like, protect the camera?

Was your AD Paul Reiser? Maybe. I screwed up the order. Do we wanna do our our case now or do we wanna do our case after break? It kinda feels natural to do our case after break.

I think let's break. Let's do let's talk about it. For a little. We'll take a recess. And maybe another recess depending, and we'll do aliens.

Can we play kickball? We can play kickball. We can go to the holodeck. Not from Star Trek, from aliens. Let's take should we take a short recess here and get a is is our our attorney's wildest to help us?

It is very sneaky that somehow we got our law degrees. But over here is Benjamin s McFadden Esquire. Esquire. The 4th, our bass player, drummer and keytar player. He does it all at once people.

I did. Wild stallions, attorneys at law. Money down. Alright. We'll be right back.

I'm Bill S. Preston, esquire. And I, sir, and Ted Theodore Logan. Now also, Esquire. And we are wild stallions.

Did you do something bad or good or maybe not at all? Are you willing to roll the dice on your family, life, and future? Then call us, wild stallions at law. If we blow it, we use too much power. The truth is, wild stallion's law will never be super firm until we get the esteemed judge Judith Sheinland.

But we will never get the esteemed judge Judith Sheinland till we can prove how well we argue our points. Also, we gotta pass the bar. Fish. Hey. Let's do a podcast to convince her, bro.

That's, like, just crazy world's work. Work. In the meantime, enjoy the debate debate and follow, like, subscribe to the review review on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, TuneIn Radio, everywhere you listen, man. Also, review x 2 podcast on Instagram. Now back to very important points about perfect stuff for the sake of security of the circumstances of Judge Judith Shiner.

Play me out. I'm excited. I'm gonna go I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'll do this spark up resurrection with the with the blood. I wish I did, but we have to watch it. No.

That's okay. It's like a weird French experimentalist, like, whatever. It's very, very yeah. I I love that alien 3 says, what if we put the perfect weapon that the engineers developed into a dog? What would that be like?

What would that look like? How would that behave? And then in 4, they were like, what if I did tits? And I'm like, I don't what? Oh, did Joss Whedon?

Oh, no. Oh, Sanjeev nailed it. I mean, come on. We're back from recess. At Joss Whedon.

Come on. We all got Joss Whedon talked to all of us. We were in the judge's chambers. Joss Whedon talked to Audrey very closely. Yes.

For a while. Closely. A little too closely. Then we were like, Joss. I was like, get away from her, you bitch.

But he said it like Freddy Krueger. Get away from her, you bitch. That was pretty good. Thank you. I'm trying.

I'm vying for the role. Doing everything I can. I just want people to know and blessed. Other than, like, I wrote down come time codes. I mean, I would I mean, come on.

I wrote down time codes of when we see Are time codes like time codes? The monster. Almost the same, but they're in Jean Claude Van time code. Oh, gotcha. Gotcha.

Gotcha. But I wrote down time codes of when we see monsters in both movies or at least when we start to see monsters. Awesome. Nice. Because in Aliens, obviously, it's more sustained.

Yeah. Should we start with our individual cases? Or Start with alien. Okay. What needs to be said about Alien shit.

You know, this shit. That the movie doesn't do on its own. The story is simple, but the execution is impeccable. The movie doesn't give us a face hugger till about 45 minute mark. Is that right, Paul?

Approximately. I'll have to refer to my notes. Thank you. And the xenomorph doesn't rear its slimy head until about about an hour. Is that about right?

We get the egg and facehugger at 33 minutes. We get the, transition alien that is shedding its skin in a a a a brief glimpse at an hour and 7. Thank you. We get an attack at an hour 15. That's enough.

Thank you. And a full reveal in an hour 30. I'd like that struck in from the record, please. That wasn't my question. This will not be edited out, you chit.

But the plotting and patient build of tension is expertly crafted. The design on the interior of the ship is so iconic. It's somehow both mechanical and organic, same as the xenomorph. Any tube lurking in the darkness is terrifying. And the icing on the cake for me is the use of an android.

Ash's reveal and ultimate betrayal is so cleverly laid out that when it happens, all of his previous actions make sense. It's why Cameron's use of Bishop, the android, is so successful. We must still have that uneasy belief that the android is ultimately a false ally. Furthermore, I would like to add that Cameron's use of more aliens as well as a mother alien is only successful because we just saw what only one alien is capable of doing. Don't get me wrong.

I am a fan of Aliens as a perfect sequel to an already perfect film. It took the foundation and built upon it, not negating or neglecting, but saying, yes, and. When it's all said and done, I believe Alien to be a perfect film. Sanjeev, please. What Alien gets and what ultimately helps it trump over aliens is that it understands what makes the alien scary.

It is the perfect organism that is hard to kill. You've seen it born out of a beloved member of the team, and now you have no idea where it is. You don't need to see the xenomorph to fear it. You don't need more than one xenomorph to understand it. All you need to do is see it do its thing once.

Have your characters react to it, that single occurrence, and have it wreak havoc and inspire fear largely off screen. That economy in its utilization of the tile monster is what makes the franchise work. Aliens might have some of the more iconic lines. The iconic motion detector. Some of the more iconic designs.

But, alien defined what space horror could be in a way that the franchise, especially aliens, struggle to still live up to. Woah. We rest our case. Very nice. Struggling a lot of yeah.

What a fun performance. That's nice. I didn't write anything down. But it's like I would also say that's very indicative of the shit with me. Sure.

But also like, as it's so important that things came before, thank goodness, like, 2,001 and Dark Star came before Alien. Right? Oh, yeah. Things can Thank goodness. Like, like, Mean Streets came before Goodfellas, but Goodfellas is is is your favorite.

Right, Ben? You have said that. Correct? This is not a I like that struck it from the record. I would like that struck it from the record.

The original doesn't make it better or the first doesn't like, the inspiration of doesn't make it better. Our case our case wasn't here that's it? No. Okay. Just making sure.

Just making sure. If you were listening, if you got the fat out of your ears Most would say aliens is an insular story including Roger Ebert stated that it is an insular story. So what I would say is abs absolutely. We're all ears. Yes.

Absolutely. I'm all ears. I would say aliens stands alone. Alien could not exist, and you could walk into that universe of aliens and know exactly what had happened previously, who Ripley is, what her story is, who these xenomorphs are, what had happened to the previous crew, all of that, and done very masterfully in the first 45 minutes of the movie Yeah. To say might be a bit bigger, faster, louder, all of that.

But you get a lot of characters that are very rich without needing a ton of backstory, which can, like, weigh things down. It's one of the reasons why, you know, you look at something like Mad Max as well. That's the reason why it it works is that you understand a character. Road warrior or you mean The newer one. You understand a character.

Road warrior or you mean The newer one. Fury Road. Fury Road. Do you see someone like Furiosa? And you don't need to know how she lost her.

You don't need to know Totally. Anything about anybody. And I would say the same thing. Like, you look at the marines in this. And within 3 minutes of screen time, you know exactly who these people are.

You know their dynamics. You're on their side Sure. Already. Yeah. You meet Burke.

In the first two seconds of meeting him, you're like corporate dude. Well, no. He's a good guy. He's not what you think. I'm not sure.

I mean, by casting Paul Reiser, you immediately make me questionable. Yeah. Yeah. Like, mister mister J. Crew, mister Lacrosse, like, the whole L.

L. Bean vest. Quick question. What? Is that suit jacket just color popped up?

Or is this supposed to be a Yeah. Like a future thing that No. But that's what I love. It's, like, like, what a what a great use of Douche bakery? No.

Just like It's like the style. Because you look at the entire boardroom, and they all have that. Okay. It's the style. It's the time.

Like but I sort of I love that too because They have an onion on their belt too. Think of men's fashion within within the last I don't know how long it's been, but it stays very, like, stagnant. The gray and black suit. Yeah. But it's also you know, it's it's this notion of, like, you're in the future because the colors are up and then Yeah.

You know, but it it does so in a way that you you believe it. Sure. You feel and that's what I think the movie does as well within that time frame at the beginning. Is it just like everything is right, but then there's just something off that makes you go, wait. Where are we?

What are we? Like, and and it makes Ripley understand that she is now somewhere different Mhmm. And all of that. I would also say that to either Sysco or Ebert, whichever one had a problem with the child. I understand that.

I know in the theatrical cut, you get less of the the mother portion of it. You know, in the director cut, like, you they bring up her daughter and all of that. So that's something that comes in later. But even without knowing that, like, even without having that in just a theatrical cut, this notion of, like, trauma bonding with somebody. Oh, I see.

Yeah. And also the idea that, of course, like, instinctually, like, somebody needs you and and whatever it is that you would immediately go to their aid regardless of whether it was a child, you know, whoever it was. But I think that the relationships in it are so well done even, like you said, the tension with Ash. And you can still lay it out with Bishop without ash. Like, it it still paces out in the same way.

You absolutely get aliens because of alien, but it still is something that could exist without. Paul. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Thanks, friend. It's a good it's a good thing you guys agree.

I would like to give Alien so many kudos, not only for taking being inspired to whatever degree by things like 2,001 Star Trek, Dark Star, things that came before it. Doesn't necessarily make any of those things better. But Alien is such it's done with such a deft hand. It's it's so precise, especially in terms of the editing. And it does such a great job of changing hands to where this becomes Ellen Ripley's story and not a story about Dallas or about Yafik Coto and Harry Dean Stanion.

And and It's canon now. It's canon now. It's canon now. Veronica Cartwright does a phenomenal job. That's the strength, big strength of both of these films is the cast, the direction, the buy in.

Some things, about also about Alien that are great and very leading toward where we were going and leading toward Ridley Scott's work moving forward in terms of Blade Runner and whatever we wanna think of Prometheus and the engineers and Weyland Yutani and where this started to go in the more recent years. But as I think Sysco put it really really well. It's a really great haunted house movie. Yeah. Despite, at some points, like, I think at 1 o hour 9 into the film, it's dark and suddenly there's light from a lighter and the alien pops out of nowhere and you're like, oh, dude in a suit.

Mhmm. Very clearly. Like, dude in a suit. There are times when the the Nostromo's shuttle is landing and you see, like, the landing lights and stuff like that. And this is me being, like, overly detail oriented.

But also at the very end of the movie at an hour 33 when the alien's, like, sexy disco dancing for a few frames, like, where it's, like, this thing moves like nothing that's nothing about this feels like natural or real. This feels like a stunt guy playing Freddie in in part 2, Freddie's revenge. Like, it it's like A reference that only Paul gets. Correct. But you know what I mean, Audrey.

Like crew people are stunt people not moving like actors. It's a little bit different. We've we've done indie filmmaking. Right. It's a great movie and partly not only leans on Sigourney Weaver's great performance that really stands out, Veronica Cartwright's performance that stands out, but Ian Holmes great performance that stands out and why we need to worry about our dependence on technology.

Mhmm. That it's not something that we can trust, and that according to Bishop, that model was a bit twitchy, which apparently also includes, like, sabotaging people, like, your the how machine in 2,001 or whatever and, like, killing everybody for the greater sake of whatever the fucking reason is for making this perfect weapon, etcetera, etcetera. Yeah. Yeah. Correct.

That Ian Holm performance. Yeah. And the end set piece is, like, really, really solid and makes it clear how hard this thing is to kill as an individual monster. That single mission is to kill as many people as possible. So just like head staple everybody it possibly can.

Now let's flash forward 57 years, where everybody's got their fucking collar popped or whatever, and we literally go into the escape shuttle of the shuttle of the Nostromo. It's a great opening. And it's amazing because it's like where the fuck are we? What is happening? What is trying to get into this thing?

Why is it welding the doors? Is this hostile? This is the thing that aliens does so fucking perfectly, is it takes everything that alien did and for now we agree we see the facehugger at about 33 minutes in Alien. Correct? Right.

Yeah. Mhmm. Correct. So we see a hugger in a bottle in Aliens in the theatrical at 43 minutes. Not even active.

We actually do not see a chest burst until an hour 1 into aliens, and we don't see actual drone aliens until about an hour 9. So we're not actually seeing the alien super fast. It's just once they come, they come insanely furious, like Vin Kilmer style. Like a 1,000 Phil Kilmers coming after. Coming furious.

Correct. The story. Act of fool. It's basically what they do. Act of fool.

And to what Audrey is saying, a problem that, that I enjoy about Alien is a huge motivator for Ripley as we don't know she's a mother and this is cut out of the theatrical version of Aliens. Her motivator is a cat. I have to get my cat. Where's my cat? What's going on with the cat?

But also the cat goes into the carrier so well. So this is really a movie to show your cat. I just wanna mention This is how you go to bed. I just wanna mention as someone who has no children but has a cat Yeah. I love that at the point where she realizes that Jonesy's behind, there's no fucking question.

Yeah. It's I'm going. Have to go get my cat. I'm going. And I like that everybody actually on the ship.

And there's no very ex explanation. It's not like No. There is we brought a cat on this ship. Oh, no. But there's an explanation that they're all looking for.

I'm like, if we don't find him, we won't find the monster. Explanation why there's a cat here. I think it's just Ripley's buddy. It's like her super best on just just cat. Yeah.

And then she's just catching mice or whatever on her ship. Face mine. It's catching a it's catching mice on a ship. 100% go face a xenomorph to save my cat. Yes.

I would too. And by the rules of the script writing book, save the cat. Yeah. But also if you are in the world of aliens or the world of most audience members or wanting to suspend disbelief to whatever degree, a human child is normally a better device or motivator for that. And, the deluxe edition, special edition does explain that Ripley had a child that passed before she was discovered.

And but it becomes extremely clear, especially when Newt calls her mommy, that this is, like, this is my chance to live a life unlived. As well as, like, Burke setting them up is such a beautiful piece of the plot as as Sigourney Weaver is, Ripley has been defamed and essentially lied to to live through this PTSD. She can't sleep at night, etcetera, etcetera. And she decides, I'm going to face my fears head on. I'm going to deal with this.

Takes over for a greenhorn lieutenant that was installed that Burke thought he could pull around, because this is all based on Burke's doing. It's all based on a dollar value at a point, Weber says, they can bill me because she's gotten way fucking past that compare based on what she's lived through. And the aliens are not trying to kill you in this movie. There's actually very little bloodshed in this movie. The aliens are trying to capture you and cocoon you and multiply.

Mhmm. What would you rather? That is my question, ultimately, in the end. Would you rather be what's scarier? Would you rather be cocooned?

Hunted and cocooned? When they go through that installation, the Space Marines say, who are armed to the teeth, total fucking badasses, have every single thing, like, available to them. And when they show up, there's acid pools through the floors and shit, and they're like, there are no bodies. Well There's no, like There's that great, when you first find the the living human that's been cocooned Yes. They try and save An hour, 1 minute in?

And she's gonna kill me. Kill me. And that's way scarier to me. The idea of, like, if there's one, I can maybe run or escape or hide or outmaneuver it or what have you, or especially if I'm willing to not split up from the many people I'm with. That's the other thing that this movie sets up.

If you lean into the set up of Alien, it's a bunch of space truckers like, trying to go against this thing that you can't possibly anticipate. This movie is saying these things exist. Paul Reiser put this thing in motion. He's the one moving all these pieces. He's the one who sent them to get the facehugger, whatever, bring it back to everybody, and try to get this weapon back But that's also for Weyland Yutani.

Super scary as well. It's the notion of, like, the hubris of all of these people who just have guns Yes. And all of these resources behind them. And it's like the the reality behind it is, like, it doesn't matter how prepared you are. It doesn't matter that you're a space marine.

Nope. You've got a ton of guns and ammunition that you have training. It it's just like this thing exists and it exists for one purpose only, which is just to multiply and kill you. Yes. Which you get a notion of this creepy silent killer in Alien, but this this seems more it's hostile.

It's your very existence, like, is it is at stake. It will very existence, like, is it is at stake. It will throw itself at you at the like the Red Army, if you're thinking of this, like, the eighties and just die and die and die and die until it can get to you. It doesn't matter. And in the deluxe edition, there's like automatic guns that like Correct.

Yeah. Went over to like Call of Duty. This movie is what spawned a lot of comic books and like predator 2, what's ultimately brought it together. But this movie even sets us up where we see Ripley and it transitions to the earth, the face of her the silhouette of her face. And she becomes mother, essentially.

She's essentially like the guidance and protector. It's not a computer anymore. And this movie this I'm learning computer. I'm learning computer. But also, I will say this movie basically that I think a lot of people it's hard to deal with.

There are a lot of monsters out there. A lot of them are monsters a lot of them are monsters that are alike and we may not know it. And a lot of them are a lot of them are a lot of them are a lot of them are a lot of them are a lot of them are a lot of them are a lot of them are a lot of them are a lot of them are a lot of them that are alike and we may not know it. And a lot of them are a lot of them are a lot of them are a lot of them are for a percentage and you have to deal with that. Like, it's and the mood just the movie is so fucking perfectly written.

It's so perfectly written. Every beat, almost everything is explained especially in the deluxe addiction. Almost every piece of ground that's laying, like But also not in an overwhelming sense because, like, you you get certain things, but I think sometimes that can be overdone. It's like you don't need 10,000 inserts of, like, oh, here's somebody opening a book. Here's like, well, it looks like you'll get bits, but then there are other things.

It's like, you know, she leaves a flare, like, on the way to go and get Newton, whatever. So that's like a little nod to anybody that would sit there and be like, well, how'd she found her way back? And it's like, that's how she found her way back. But you also Not to, like, like, a good kind of bit of that sequence too is when she's, like, pre firing the flamethrower. Yeah.

She's checking her corners. That's yeah. Yeah. Like, it is well thought out. Can I check with the judge?

Is their case done? Oh, yes. No. I just I I'm holding back. Also, one of the restraint that I'm having is causing me to have an eye twitch.

There's just the the thing that, like, they they make it very clear, like, what do you mean they cut the power? They're animals. And then the queen gets in the elevator at the end. And, like, the queen puppet is fucking incredible, especially on the big screen. Holy shit.

It looks good. And the way it moves its head like a dog and, like, calls the other aliens off to save its babies and everything. Learning about the the behavior or how this weapon works, these aliens work instinctually. Again, as they explained in the movie, they're more like an ant colony or a beehive, that would that is established in this movie. But really All of that groundwork is built in this movie.

Had to do was like be like captain EO which is just dancing to everything. And I love you, Francis. And all of them would have turned into sex. Why did you bring it back to Michael Jackson? I'm just saying.

Like, he because this is thriller night. She could have danced. And then they would have all been lovely dancers. And then, like, Angelica Houston would have come out. Very different friends.

Had 2 little dress. I I but I want I would want to. And then the little, like, fuzzy guy. I mean, like, I'm just saying. We would like to request a rebuttal.

I request I I request that you do. Okay. Great. Oh my god. There's something mad at me.

Stupid eye. Okay. We even went off the cuff, and I think we we won that almost definitely. Bro, he'll kinda let you just go off. Yeah.

We won I did. I went for a bit. I wasn't sure where it started or worked. I guess you shouldn't have let me fill a bus because I shouldn't have let you guys with awards. I don't know.

Look. Before before I hand it to to Ben, like, I wanna just make make it really clear that, like, these are 2 phenomenal Yes. Yes. But also 2 vastly different movies that have very different ideas of what a space horror is gonna look like. Yes.

Right? I think the point that you make about the horror of it being Paul Reiser really that, like, you know, kinda puts them in the the situation. Right? It's not that they you know, you can make the argument that, like, in alien, the the landing was pre predestined. Right?

Right? Like, they Sure. Right? Like, they were meant to land there because the corp the company wanted them to land there. Right?

But, like, in aliens, Paul Reiser, that's an active choice. Like, he's creates that situation. But, you know, like, the the differentiation between it being, alien how to kill you versus an alien how to assimilate you, are 2 very different kinds of horror. And I I think, you know, like, as we I just wanna before Ben comes in, I just wanna make that Oh, I'm ready. For the sake of the listeners, I wanna make it clear that We love both these movies.

We love both these movies and I think Apollo Creed in the corner. Fundamentally, we are arguing for 2 very different visions for what, the genre. What we think that genre and the franchise would have excelled. Honestly, I think if you had listened to our Die Hard episode, I don't know if you did, but I feel like I brought this up in that conversation too where I was like, I think we just have differentest things. But I don't wanna get there because this is more interesting to us.

This franchise doesn't end at the second movie, like in a happy ending. Oh, no. It does. Yeah. I could swear.

No. The next movie, like, Hicks and Ripley get married. That's it. Right. Weird and great.

Yeah. I think a lot of what you're describing about what makes aliens work is also what makes alien work. And I think when I when the rewatch, I forgot how much while the type of horror flow and, like, who's how active the human element aliens. Beat for beat, a lot of the plot in aliens is just kind of of alien to the till the very end. Now there's a lot more going on, and I I will I will I will I will see to some extent that I think there is a little bit more thematic complexity going on in Aliens.

Right? The, you know, the it's gonna be kind of the motherhood angle. The I mean, you you Audrey, you put it. The, like, the trauma bonding aspect of it. Mhmm.

It's not just, Newt and Ripley. It's all of them. This is I mean, this is somebody over trying to overcome PTSD in Right. But I think the the type of trauma that alien, singular, is trying to explore is trying to explore is one of this, like, invasive kind of not yeah. Penetrative is the wrong word.

But if No. I think that's correct, actually. It's a very wet movie. Right. It goes all the way in.

But, like, you know, like, it's it's a it's a very different kind kind of perspective on, like, it's not about a collective trauma. It's about the unthinkable. Right? It's not about how prepared you are. It's about that any corner, the most benign mundane thing can be an opportunity for, like, the most earth shattering horror.

Right? Like, is that thematically as complex as Aliens? Probably not. But I would argue that it is far more interesting to explore the unknown as opposed to a known kinda human element of that emotion. Now pass it on to Ben.

Sure. Does the movies liking the movie Star Wars do you like the movie Star Wars? No. You don't like the Star Wars movie? The first one, episode 4, it's fine.

Would you say Love it. Would you or even the franchise? Yeah. The It's fine. Sure.

Would you say that because of its success, it it's it's ripping off Kurosawa? I mean, I have seen Hidden Fortress. So yes. You think it rips off so you think it the the the success of Star Wars rips off Curacao? No.

I mean, the success of Star Wars is its own thing. But, like, in terms of, like, the wipes or the stories of the droids being the same story as the 2 main characters in Hidden Fortress as well as a lot of the comedic beats and stuff, like, yeah, that movie is, like, very strongly inspired by Hidden Fortress. I would throw out that you don't have to be the first to be the best. I yeah. That wasn't my argument.

No. No. No. I'm just saying, like, my my point is that it's to be. No.

I think I feel like you guys are putting words in my mouth. I was not. Put a lot more than words in your mouth. Oh. Maybe like a newspaper, like a Time Magazine.

Yeah. Suffocate you. Anything being, like, a direct correlation to it because I would throw out out because we were talking about Ozark earlier. Like, so Breaking Bad. I think Ozark exists because of something like Breaking Bad.

I think Ozark is far and away. It's better. Oh, hard to say earlier. That's a different episode. No.

I love it. I love it. Like, I I think it's a better show. I think the humor is incidental. It's not overly comedic.

I think the characters are written a lot more thoughtfully. I think, like, you can bite the pencil. Sorry. I already know we're disagreeing on all of it. But I'm just saying, you do not discount the original.

However yes. Thank you. So, basically, all I'm trying to point out here is that an homage Mhmm. Is not a rip off. It is being inspired by.

Right. My theater history theater professor would say there are only 8 original ideas in this world. Right. We are all a variation or an adaptation of that idea. AI Tech Bros.

But let's say that. Dude David's awesome. Can we cut that? Can we cut that? Yeah.

All the guys who could be replaced by aliens. So something for me shout out unless they're giving us money. Like, I don't know. Something for me that I find very successful in Alien and not as successful in Aliens is similar to why I really love Jurassic Park. At the end of the day, Jurassic Park becomes a survival tale.

It's a survival story, and it's highlighting individuals who are vastly underprepared for the the task in front of them. To me, that is a very interesting take. I an alien to me is the same idea. They are truckers. They are blue collar and people who are vastly underprepared.

The only person on that ship who would've actually prevented anything from happening is Ripley, had it not been for the arm of the company, which is only calculating money and seeing potential idea and and that person is Ash who is a AI, who is working for the company. Right? So I really appreciate that this person, they're not an expert. They're not an expert killer. They're not a marine.

They're not they're not in the military. That that level that level of of of taking on this killing machine and I would say that is why Jurassic World fails in so many ways. But he likes to Okay. We're not doing that. Nope.

Nope. No. We are. Because Chris Pine is an expert at these at these fucking Chris Pratt even. Chris Pratt.

That's what I meant. Is an expert at these at trying to kill these dinosaurs. And suddenly you introduce somebody you introduce an expert into this. You introduce a military operation. And to me that is far less interesting than seeing 2 scientists, 2 kids, and an old man survive.

Just gonna really quickly build off of that. Right? I think the kind of what stuck out to me in Alien, and I've kind of forgot this because it's been a while since I last watched it. Been a while? It's been a while.

Rupli is never presented, at least not for, like, the first half of the movie as, like, the protagonist. Yeah. Right? She's just a member of this crew who this happens to be and you get the sense that she is maybe a little bit more prepared when she when they she has to make this decision. Of course.

She's in a position of desperation. She just wants to survive. Right. But even in the position of power when she's left on the ship, she's the one making the right call. She is the captain at that moment and she's the one saying this is a quarantine moment.

Even when she said yeah. And then Ash lets Ash is the one who lets this happen. The technology is what betrayed you not yourself, not humanity. Aliens very clearly sets up the camaraderie between the but you can't miss it. Right?

Like, you understand it. I think alien successfully does exactly the same thing, but a lot more subtly. Right? Like like, I love that scene with Parker, Brett, and, and Ripley. Right?

Like, it's like a it's like Oh, with the gas With the gas. Yeah. It's so so shitty. So But it's like it's exactly Right. You know exactly who everybody is, what their motive is in that situation.

But also that, like, they have they, like, kinda ding on each other. They are dicks to each other, but they, like you know, there's, like, something of a close knit relationship there. Right? And so the moment Ripley says no. Like like like, I'm in charge here now, and you guys can't come in here.

That's when she takes over. You you you know you know well, not just that, but you know the weight of the word she's saying. Aliens, it's it's not it's not the movie's fault. Right? Because Ripley is Ripley, and she's come back.

Right? But, unfortunately, like, they very quickly, and I think a lot less organically, put Ripley in a position where she's an action hero. And that is, to me, fundamentally less interesting. I sort of disagree with that only because I think from the outset, what you get is this person who's sort of been salvaged. She's now been confronted by this notion that she's been out of her world, out of the entire world for 56 years, however long it's been, is sort of just stuck in this, like, mundane purgatory shit, like, throw some shit, like, throw some, like, figures out or something.

It's like, oh, this ship costs x amount. And just like any corporate job Yeah. Just like anything, I think she's still this very sort of mundane figure of being, like, she's stuck in this dead end job now. She's living in, like, these shit barracks. Like, they let her have her cat, but it's also, like, oh, great.

Now you're sort of stuck driving loaders. You're doing all of these, like, blue collar models. Really bad connective tissue in there, though. I don't know though. Like, I I still think they give it to you.

Sorry. Paul's got his hand up, so I'm gonna let Paul talk. No. No. No.

Go ahead. No. I want you to finish your thought. I don't have thoughts. Just kidding.

No. I I I think that, you know, they they lay out really well this notion of just, like, how, like, first of all, how blue color she was to begin with, which you would get if you saw the first one. But let's say you didn't. I still think they give that to you and they're like they tell you in in that scene with, her, Burke, and, Gorman where he's just, like, sort of, like, low key, like, mocking her a little of, like, oh, that's the only job you could get or whatever because she doesn't have a pilot's license anymore, which apparently was the only thing that, you know, was her specialty beyond everything else that she could kind of manually do. And so you get this notion that, like, if she didn't want to, that's her life now, is she lives this very simplistic nothing life.

And even when she meets the marines, she's the consultant. She's this person who's just like, I've sort of seen this thing once. I don't wanna do this. I don't wanna be a part of it. And you start getting the, like, badass crazy shit when she's just, like, can I help?

And it's, like, it just happens to be the fact that, like, she's been working on a dock, so she seems like a badass because she knows how to drive a loader. You need to be careful. He's forklift certified. But it's really just like she's just like, no. I'm just some person that has done this blue collar job because I was forced to.

Or not even because she was forced to, but because it's what she knows how to do. And she doesn't really get there until further into the story when all of a sudden it's like, oh shit. Now she needs to, like, step up because now these marines are out of the picture and she's gotta come in. Takes control, babe. Yeah.

This this Exactly. In a similar trajectory, kind of. Yeah. This is the thing is, like, she shows up still as, like, a babe in the woods. PTSD, can't sleep at night, sweating, has no control over her life.

Some corporate asshole has access to her psych evaluations for whatever reason. And, like, because it's corporatized because it's corporatized. Yeah. Weyland Yutani, the logo at least is, like, prevalent throughout this movie everywhere. Everything's, like, corporatized.

This is a character that she does not come in as a badass. She is not an expert, like, Hicks actually has to show her how to use a gun because he wants to prepare her for the situation because they need every capable person to be ready. And the She's a truck. Mhmm. And she is a yeah.

And she and a pilot. And she is a capable person when this greenhorned lieutenant that was installed by an asshole that knows, like, this is your second combat drop. Like, you don't know shit. It's one of the things that I love about her, though. It's like like for anybody.

I mean, you know, you can speak to, like, female heroes or anything like that and whatever that looks like. Like, Ripley in in all of these movies is that. You can speak more about female heroes. Joss Whedon's in the corner. Oh, hey, Betty.

We'll talk about it now. But no. Like, she she's somebody that Paul and I have talked about this before, like, just on side notes or whatever. This notion that, like, to be fully rounded and all of that is that you have to break down a little. You have to be scared.

You have to be mad. You have to be sad. She doesn't suffer from the Mary Jane No. Yeah. There's there's no like, she's not perfect from the outset.

There's no Paul, she's amazing. I would like it noted that Paul has risen his hands at least 7 times. I'm very polite. I'm a very polite, excellent host. Yeah.

But that's the thing is, like, even to, like, as a young woman, like, watching all of it, it's something where I personally never felt any lack of amazing female role models just in general. 1, because Ripley existed. Hopefully, partially in the horror genre. Like, I feel like it's so prevalent. And and horror is real life.

So In a lot of cases, if you're I I will you're looking at those, at those, like, she is she's everything that you want in that genre. One liner before I give it to Paul. Yeah. To both films credit, they're not afraid to show Ripley be incredibly vulnerable. Yeah.

Sweaty and tired and mad and scared. Well, and And that you can be those things and scared. Right. You can be strong and scared. Yeah.

Yes. And and like It's light out. She doesn't wanna really have much of anything to do with anything until Gorman doesn't know what the fuck to do and she's like, get the fuck out of the way, incapable guy. Like, I'm gonna smash through here, save these people. I know what this is capable of and so much of this is miniatures.

Again, the miniatures and matte paintings in this movie are fucking stellar. And this movie isn't using a bunch of CG. In between Alien and and this, we had Tron, like in terms of CG movies. Which had great lines. We're talking about Tron has great lines.

We're talking about, oh, all these badasses or whatever. They're wiped out within, like, 5 minutes of seeing the aliens and it's just a couple people. So, like, to your to me, your argument falls really flat. It's a few people with a little bit of ammo that essentially in the end, it's like you're worried that this Android may turn on you if you're Ripley because this is what you've been through, and you keep worrying about that all the way to the end. Like, and luckily, like the android turns out to be amazing and the special effect where he's ripped in half is maybe the best one in the whole series, depending on how you look at it.

But Ripley, like drives the fucking tank out and and car out whatever and Hicks has to say ease down like you've like shredded this fucking thing. She makes a choice to save like who is essentially her child. Like I'm not gonna let you steal my baby. Like, I'm gonna fucking strap up, they showed me how to use this. I'm not gonna let what beat me or what I'm afraid of destroy me.

I refuse. I'm going to do what I have to do. I'm not trained. I'm not ready. I just learned all this shit.

I'm just a heady person with dope Reebok alien stompers on, and I'm gonna fucking do business, bro. So Like, I will not stand for this. I will not. Not sure. There we go.

So if, like, you're the journey you wanna go on is somebody who never evolves or never says this is enough, that's cool, but I don't wanna go on that journey. Oh, wow. Wow. Wow. I feel like that is basically, what Paul is saying is that she never says this that is enough and doesn't stand up to the the the creature has murdered her entire crew.

It's a scared person reacting, not a person taking control Sure. And acting. I will say that Ripley comes into her power against the aliens because of what she experiences on Alien. The trauma that she carries is what what takes the character forward. I think it's finally when she runs over a a xenomorph, like, when she finally shoots 1 in the fucking face.

I don't think it's when a rocket burns it up and she doesn't see You mean the one she launches out of she she brags about launching out of a Brag. She does. I know she doesn't brag so much as she was just, like I mean, this one thing took out an entire crew of an oil rig. Right? Yes.

So like A bunch of untrained people with no weapons Exactly. With no background. Which is what makes it But all the people who were wiped out within 5 minutes had all those weapons and background. Right. Yeah.

So that's what makes it more terrifying. If you remove that element and you just throw me into a a group of of creatures that are coming at you, it's a hoard of zombies. I don't know what these creatures can do. All I know is that this woman is telling me that they can they that they're that they're murderous. If you give me a movie that kills a bunch of people within hours on one location, then you tell me, holy fuck.

That one thing that one thing is so absolutely terrifying. Now you've given me a bunch of them. Holy shit. But I need that information. Well, I think you could kill it with a wrench.

Right? But I need that information. Now now I think that if you don't have that information, it's any Space Marines movie you wanna say. But I also hear that and I also that I also think that the thing that scares me more is not even necessarily that because the reality is is it's exactly what you said. It's a bunch of people who weren't prepared for it.

They don't know what's going on. These people aren't even necessarily super prepared for it but they're more prepared. It's this notion that, like, this human hubris of being like Jurassic Park. I yeah. Totally.

Yeah. And like Starship Troopers. I'm so Sure. I'm so ready for this thing. I'm doing my part.

Yeah. And it's like it doesn't even matter. The point is that it doesn't matter how prepared you are. It doesn't matter who you are. It doesn't matter where you are.

Disagreeing with what you're saying. I'm saying that I really like having that pre that that that information prior of, like, holy fuck. I just watched 2 hours of this person struggling to get through an individual alien that now that you're giving me so many of them. Again, love the movie. I'm I'm overwhelmed.

I'm like, holy shit. This is they're all gonna die. You know what I mean? So I think this is a good time for me to bring up, I think, the my biggest kinda hang up. Right?

And where as much as I like aliens a lot, it it just doesn't stand up to alien for me in that, like, the first time I see an alien get blown up. Right? By just like by, like, the pulse rifle. Right? 10 millimeter armor piercing explosive tip rounds that explode.

But it doesn't matter. Right? Because like, when you're watching the movie, all you see is a gun shoot at an alien and it blows up. 1 of a total 5 people that worked in the suits on the whole movie. Sure.

Right. Right. And that, you know, doesn't we we've discussed the, like, the the the type of horror. Right? Assimilation where she's killing and then execution, that kind of stuff.

Right? But, like, effectively, what you're watching in Aliens is even as the crew numbers dwindle, their body count is so incredibly high. Like, you see them and you see constantly aliens just shatter into pieces. Right? Oh, not shatter into pieces.

They do black They kill like they kill like 30 or 40. Oh, a bunch. And I the entire time I was watching a movie, I could not help but feel like this is what we're afraid of. You know? Like, you know, like, in alien, a single xenomorph is truly terrifying.

Now granted granted, I'll give you. Right? They don't have guns. Right? There's there's no weaponry.

They did not equip for that. Right? But it's a single alien. They gave a flame to But I alien. They gave a flame to they were afraid for it.

So that's why you sort of have to have them be, like, marines at that point. Right. And and they gave a understand that you have to either escalate or subvert. Some one of the 2. But for me, every time you see a xenomorph and all of that, that's a colonist.

Like, that's the terror in all of it for me. I agree. Every But it's not that's but that's not the point he's making. The point he's making is the fact that they die so quickly. Sure.

Like like like if if I am here to watch and I and, you know, like, that's Because there's training versus not training. I just Sure. But, like, the colonial Marines don't know what they're after. Like, none of them believe that they're after they have a xenomorph. You know, like, investigate, like, a fun thing.

Right? Like like Very underprepared. Very underprepared. But, like, also heavily armed. They go in.

Right? Like, Vance Katz is like, you know what? Like, I'm gonna give you my ammunition back because I'm gonna keep a little bit even though, also that information should just been told. Oh, yeah. Garbage should have told them.

See that that actually goes back to what he was saying earlier. Ripley's the capable person. This notion of, like, the chaos comes from the humans. Mhmm. Both moon waves.

Sure. Yeah. Like 100%. Well, Ash or a lot. It's like That's so, like, that's so, like, cop out.

In the first one, it's like the company. Right? The companies. But the notion is, like, you look at you look at every step of the way, and this is, like, a human being making a decision where you're just, like, just communicate that. Just do this.

Give that information to the people. Like, whatever. But that's also, like, very indicative of the times and management styles and what we're, like, you would never are trying to say. Yeah. I I agree in terms of, like, the the kind of, like, Red Army colonizer thing in terms of aliens.

Like, I like, this is at, like, probably the height of the, like, red scare cold war. Like, we had red dawn not far like, whatever. I also think we are probably ready to make closing arguments. Sure. Because I feel like no one has made a lot of headway here.

Well, let me check with the the the judge. You're a crook, Captain Hook. Wait. No. It's Judge.

It's Judge Puddle. It's Judge Puddle. I am Judge. And as long as you're my name is Judge. For Judge Judy made, like, a $1,000,000 slash We will we will let him.

So We will concede to aliens You'll defer. For their, for their closing arguments. Yeah. I defer to you. Who would you like to go first?

You go ahead, Paul. It was said at a point that, like, this movie repeats beats or what have you. I would argue that this movie has a tendency to either subvert, I e, the Ash v Bishop situation or amplify, like, the motion locator, in Alien as well as Aliens. I also argue that if the movie essentially is saying, kind of what your argument was if I understand it correctly. Like, yeah, if I come in with like 12 badasses with guns, like, who cares?

And it's like, yeah, but like what this movie is telling us is that Ripley told Burke, there is a ship here. It's filled with eggs. Burke said, go check this out. They checked it out. It was brought back to the colony.

And now this colony that has, you know, a 160, a180 people have now kind of been, like, mass infected. They all have fucking COVID, like, essentially at this point. That's a little bar. Did you see that? I I love that.

They do have a bar, like, with a neon sign outside. That's where they got COVID. Bar. That's where they got COVID. They wouldn't stop, like, meeting up.

But I I just think, like, it's this movie sets up, like, the comic books, like, the tie in that then happens in predator 2, we can all say how we feel if people want to about alien versus predator or what have you. I do not like it. But aliens aliens like, you know, it saved Fox. Sigourney Weaver was nominated for best actress. And the big thing for me through all of this, I definitely I I love that Ripley ran so Sarah could soar in 91 because, like, the the character ethos is is very similar.

You went through a traumatic event. Everybody thinks you're fucking crazy, and now you gotta save fucking everybody Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Despite the fact.

Yeah. And I I do agree with what you're saying is, like, it's almost like the argument for predator 2 where it's like Danny Glover v Arnold Schwarzenegger. Like, the the stakes feel higher with Danny Glover because he seems like a a man. He seems beatable. Arnold Schwarzenegger seems unbeatable.

And I understand, but it's like the space marines going against 1 alien that also has guns, like, in predator versus alien. Oh, here we go. We're back to it. But I just the main piece, the the ethos of the Ripley character, a pushover, a person who's just like the 3rd in command or whatever of a ship that's just like dragging shit, transporting shit. And then eventually, again, like, can't sleep, sweating all night, can't get over this thing.

In the deluxe edition, we find out the kid the kid is dead. Her kid is dead. I the little girl over cat thing works for me as much as I love cats. And I love the piece. One of my favorite scenes outside of the battle with the queen and then get away from her, you bitch.

And I understand it's like repeating the airlock thing, but we escalated. Yes and Ben, we escalated here. Used by him. Where we did we add the power loader. It's bigger, it's faster, it's stronger, just like the alien queen.

And there's a conscious choice, enough, I'm done. I why am I cursed to this? Fuck this. I'm taking control of my own life. And and in alien, it's more of a person acting in desperation to survive, which there is something that's like really fucking heroic about that.

But the hero's journey to me is like, I will not let you keep your thumb on me anymore. The gavel has dropped. I rest my case. That's my closing argument. Then might hit me.

I'm just gonna add one thing real quick to Paul's point. Oh, to my point again? So that sounds It's like the 3rd or 4th time you've done that. There's something there is something nice and poetic about the alien queen as a motherly figure. Figure.

That's right. It's mother against mother in the end. Yeah. That's a lot of it as well. And and even in that scene when you see Ripley sort of stumble upon the eggs and when they have that moment, sort of looking at each other and understanding one another Yeah.

And being like, this is how you're gonna get away. And literally, the only but, again, it goes back to what we were saying where the chaos comes from the humans. The only reason that it all sort of starts unfolding is you see one of the eggs open. And then And Ripley has to make the decision of Yes. That fucking thing gets coming after us.

I have to choose. And I need to decide. I'm gonna burn it anyways. We had an accord. And I'm gonna kill that baby because it's coming after me whether you tell me or not.

My baby. And, like, it's so crazy. I mean, this is also coming to somebody who also has cats and would My babies. Would save the Jonesy. Like, I mean, I listen.

I was watching Alien. I was pointing to my cats. I'm like, this is how you get in the carrier. It's a train in. Are we all cat parents here?

Yeah. We are. Yeah. We are. A sound with a cat who, like, will run the moment they hear the the carrier zipper.

Yeah. Yep. Oh, no. See, like, we go I go in the bathroom. Yeah.

Anyway, yeah, I love that we're all cat parents here. It's really weird, but great. I love it. But, no, I I would say my my argument for aliens is just there is more of a journey for Ripley in this one. I think that she's so great in alien.

Act of the movie. Just it's it's very one dimensional. There's not you don't get a lot more of her arc in a lot of things. She doesn't have as much involvement. It's a lot of Dallas, and then it switches to her.

And that's not to say that it's a bad thing. It's It's just the reality of, like, the nuance of, like, that specific shift in their captaincy and and all of that. But, like, she has this really great sort of trajectory, excuse me, in aliens that is very interesting and great to watch. And it's just watching somebody who is scared, afraid, hasn't like, there's no real growth from 1 into 2 because she's been asleep. So there isn't this notion of, like, all of a sudden, she's this better, smarter, badassy, or whatever person because she's been asleep this whole time.

She wakes up the same person she was, like, on a strong line. Broken. And yeah. Exactly. And so some in some ways, she's actually fighting more so in in the second one and just seeing her find camaraderie with other people, trying to find her way, becoming this sort of motherly figure to this child, facing her fears, doing all of these things, and also watching this, like, shit company be against her, watching, like Can't fight city hall.

Watching, like, all of these these obstacles in front of her and that she's scared and nervous around all of these things, but that she's willing and able to confront them. Choose And and also not maybe always doing it to the best of her abilities, but still doing it. It's easy to look at, like, the marines of this as this sort of, like, brash, big, busy sort of moment, which they are, and that's sort of, like, fun. Like, I do have a tendency to, like, gravitate towards things that have moments like that. So I know that that's why this movie speaks to me much more so than alien.

Even them, like, they're they're a sort of dealing with. And in alien, I don't think you get that as much as you do in the second one. They kill so many of them so fast when the monsters show up in the second one. I don't think you realize it. It's so fast.

But if you wanna go first with our close closing? Yeah. I can do that. Let me start by saying that, you know Okay. The the differences between alien and aliens are so vast Yeah.

That it spawned, like, 2 complete sub genres of, like, extended material. Right? Like, you you when, like, video games, for example, you know, if you get the alien video game, you know what that's gonna be like. When you get the aliens video game, it's gonna be like It's it's gonna be like It's more like Call of Duty. I don't know.

Aliens video games, like, kinda missed the point a little bit. But anyway, even Colonial Marines really Oh, okay. It's one of the best games ever. Alienization. It's one of the best games ever.

Right? And with, like, a plot point that comes from Aliens, which is fun, with the daughter. But while I think the aliens team has made a compelling argument about I think that some of the e the thematic kind of storytelling around the its specific brand of horror. Right? And I think, like, it's very easy to, to get kind of blinded by the horror nature of the the the the marines and and and what it's masking.

Right? I I I have to say, I think I still find Ripley's journey from being that background character in Alien. Right? Like like, she is effectively a nobody until she has to make a decision. And then she is About following corporate policy?

About saying, like, no. We gotta quarantine. Don't let it on. Protecting. That's not just corporate policy.

That makes that makes sense. No. Of course it does. But it's just like it doesn't seem like a super brave Well, it's it's motivation. Like, the motivation doesn't it's the choice.

Moral choice of saving everybody else. No. I don't disagree, but the decision see it doesn't feel moral. I should and I'll let you finish. Yeah.

I'm sure that you're that you're following orders. Right. And it's it's not the is it the most obviously heroic choice? No. But it's the choice that a person would make in that situation.

A person who has a strong, like, fortitude. Right. And it's not an easy choice and she doesn't like to make it. But like she has to make that choice. I apologize.

I do agree with them on that. No. But it's like it's like literally like I'm gonna go to try to save this kid that I met like a few hours ago or some crazy shit like that. Like, it's like she has to make that choice. And the moment that choice is taken away from her, right, Ash does the thing anyway.

Right. She is she is forced to then be a different not a different person. Right? But, like, to, like, stand out against the way everyone else is responding to this escalating situation. And you see the Ripley that you see in Aliens, you see Ripley become that Ripley.

Oh, I disagree. I disagree. This is our closing argument and you don't I know. It's just like she confronts Ash and immediately folds in Alien. Sure.

But what what would you do? Like, it's like, you know, like, what would you do? I don't know. If I were an alien, I punch him in the fucking face if I were there. But if I'm an alien, I guess I'd fold like a fucking house of cards.

Whatever you find more interesting. Do you wanna be in a movie or be in reality? Like, if you wanna be in a made up thing Do you wanna see somebody cry or see somebody hold back tears? Holding back tears is normally more interesting. Opinion.

That has doesn't make any sense in this scenario. Just saying. House of cards are not a house of cards. I I don't understand that. I don't understand that.

House of cards are not a house of cards. In this hypothetical, I think is far more interesting someone seeing someone kind of lose that barrier and cry than seeing someone, like, try to put up that barrier. Especially I think it depends, of course. I agree with you. Hey.

Hey. But, you know, to the other, you know, like, the other point of, like, mute. Right? Like, it's it's it's it's obviously so, obviously so appear, you know, like An escalation from the cat. An escalation from the cat.

But I think it's a much more telling thing about someone's character to see them go so far out out of their way to protect the cat than it is for them to protect the little girl. I agree but it's also illogical. Like it doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense. But it doesn't need to make sense logically, it makes sense emotionally.

And then because it is illogical, it tells you a lot more about Ridley. We're not Vulcans here. It tells you who she is. That wasn't Spock the best of them. Wasn't he?

Of the Vulcans? Yes. Of the humans too. I keep interrupting. It's fine.

Men tried to stop me. It's fine. I'll I'll say this right. Like, I I love aliens. Yeah.

It's a great movie. Alien's better. You saw my face and was like, we're fuffy, buddy. No. No.

No. Like like, listeners, Alien is a better movie, but this is my closing argument for Alien. But I I just I just can't it's it's just hard for me to accept that aliens would be aliens, and all the points you're making by aliens being this phenomenal film. Stan, you're right. You're right.

Like, you're correct. Yeah. But Don't disagree. But you see you see that happen in alien. Now granted, right, you have the 57 year difference.

Well, all that kind of stuff and all of that. Right? Like, and she comes in. She's shaken, she's broken, she's there's not much left for her to do. It's a different world and all of that kind of stuff.

But, like, her character arc in aliens, it happened in alien. You just I think you just it's a it's it's willful ignorance to ignore that. I I wanna survive this and I'm gonna go fucking kill this thing are 2 very different situations. I object to this strike check and fight. I wanna survive.

I wanna survive. And I'm gonna go face it and kill it. Yeah. No matter what happens Well, great. That I'm gonna try.

She's going to you're talking about the ending? She's not dedicated to killing both. The only reason she has to kill is because it follows her. Yeah. She's just trying to survive.

She just wants to survive the situation. Well, she's talking about aliens. I'm talking about aliens. Yeah. She's saying exactly it.

Aliens, she 100% goes in to get Newt. She makes the conscious decision. To escape. She could've follows her. She could've just left Newt there.

Sure. She could've just left the cat. She could've just left the cat there and then she The only reason why she has to confront the alien queen is is because stakes are so much higher. The alien does the cheap fake out of the shit. Because it knows you're expecting Bishop to betray them.

Right. Like Yeah. I don't think that's cheap. I think that's Ripley's anxiety bleeding onto us. Of course, Ripley feels that way.

Ripley does not trust this thing. Can I have my moment, John? Ripley has been asleep for 60 years. Ripley would not trust it. I'm on the journey with Ripley.

Totally. We're just saying that the beats are an elevated so here. That's what sequels do. Just to finish just to finish my case here, that is what sequels do. It's a virtue.

So continued closing argument. Thank you. I'm so sorry. I would like to take you on a journey back in time to 1979 Decline. Theater and to see a little movie called Alien.

And in this movie, I I I really just want you to remove I want you to remove right now your preconceived already viewing of that film as well as the entire franchise. Because I think that it's important to recognize that when you go in to watch this movie called Alien, you're introduced to a first Harry Harry Dean Stannion. 30 something minutes of just space truckers starring Harry Dean Stannion. Thank you. Living in this world and you're like, what the fuck is going on?

Where are we going? Who are what are these who are these people? They're really well established. And then we see this thing that attaches its crazy spider like thing to a guy's face. Again, take away your idea of, well, you already know what's gonna happen.

Because at this time, if you don't know what's gonna happen, is this the alien? Is this the creature that is attached to its to its this character's face? What is happening? We are in the same mystery as the characters on the ship are. We are trying to figure this out.

Nope. This is my closing argument and this will be the end of the case. Yep. Nope. That's the end.

Sorry. Sorry, counselor. This is the end. And so if that is the mystery, all of a sudden he's better, things dead. What's happening?

We don't know. They don't know. You know who does know? Ash. If you go back and watch, you can see his watching.

He's watching him at dinner. He knows what's gonna happen. He has an idea of what's gonna happen. He is tracking what's gonna happen. The thing bursts out of its chest.

What the fuck is that? He's dead. All of a sudden there's something on this ship. All we can do is survive. The terror of that without knowing anything else.

You don't know till later, Ash is a fucking android. Are you kidding me? This guy has been plotting the entire thing. He's been going after it. He's been the betrayal.

He's a You have a synthetic on board? Ally. Fuck. Right? Which is why and you brought up a really great, you know, to say that, like, Dallas is the lead character at the beginning.

Sure. That's what an amazing idea to take in a movie and don't give us our main character till an hour in. To see these people be single handedly taken away. All of the white dudes, dead quickly. Like Game of Thrones.

Yeah. Similar to a lot of the guys in Aliens. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

So just to to build off of that, you said that you can subvert. Of course, you can. Subversion is great. Subversion storytelling, you subvert tropes, you subvert multiple different sort of, like, genres. But a subversion, if I look it up on Google, which I did very quickly, seeking or intended to subvert an established system or institution.

I wanna just emphasize established. I don't think aliens succeeds as well as it does, which I do love aliens if you do not have alien. I just think that mystery I think that again, I'll come back to I don't think the bishop bishop being an ally and not a false ally is a is as effective if we aren't riddled with that initial mystery and tension and horror. I think we, I think we rest our case in audience, Alien is a better movie. Burke Burke is Ash, and Alien says it all.

Burke is the only person that the alien's like, fuck you bro, and staples his face. Everybody else that they try to cocoon. It tells you everything you need to know. Fuck the company, fuck the man, fuck the liars, fuck the gas lighters. We don't even wanna cocoon you, man.

We don't even wanna put a face hugger in you. We're just gonna staple your face. And it's a really fucking strong statement. What a movie. What a movie.

You know what the tragedy is? Is that Nothing. Whoever wins this come Alien 3. Doesn't matter. Come on, Chucky Tango.

We don't win because Chucky Tango. To be honest, I don't even know how we win. There's there's literally no winning. I don't. I mean, is anybody gonna change their rating?

100,000. Absolutely not. I'm I'm I'm 5 We talked about aliens way more, and I was really hopeful that one of YouTube would change your rating. A a 4.5? I will give you this.

I'm gonna go up from a 4 to a 4.5. Because I don't think I consider I give enough fair consideration to 4 to 5. I love that. Kind of be, like, thematic idea. My 4.5 still lies on some connective tissue issues Right.

That I have. You know what's funny? So not to go against us or anything. I did realize upon this rewatching I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.

You're fucking ruining it. I got us I cliqueau. We're drinking cliqueau. We have the win in the bag. He gave us a half a point.

Yeah. Keep the half point. We still deserve it. I was just gonna give him what what my one baby beef was, which was at the end when she's holding on, and she's got the airlock airlock. And the only reason I say that is because and women, please don't come for me.

I'm so sorry. Like, I've got your back. I swear I do. We're not known for our upper body strength. I mean, there's a lot of issues in that moment.

Like, Bishop not being sucked down the airlock is 0 sense. And he's just, like, holding it. I'm like, that's liter but again, that is my only be. I wanna sit with Ridley Scott and Jimmy Cammes and be like, guys, make your fucking futurist, like, alien movies make some fucking goddamn sense, you assholes. And and mind you, she, like, pumps iron she's doing all over shit.

So, like, I see it. I get it. This is just like, I know this is moment logic. I'm also just thinking of, like, you know, it doesn't matter how, like, fucking Arnold, like, anybody couldn't just, like, hold on But, like and then also, like, climb up. So that's the only thing.

Why is the Bishop being sucked? Exactly. Yeah. So that's my that's the only thing. And all of French to you.

Right? I love you. Thank you. There's no reason why Ripley's underwear is like 5 sizes small. Oh my god.

Oh, an alien? An alien, especially. That's also the seventies. Like, it's so rough. Yeah.

But also, like, there's There's no answer. I couldn't find the answer. I, like, tried to look this up. I couldn't find the answer. Jess just looked up and she was like, well, that's not underwear.

Yeah. Hey, Vasquez. You ever been mistaken for a man? No. Have you?

Didn't even bring up a black bag? That real quick. So why person in brown face. Do not love that in a very, like, West Side Story kind of way. Yeah.

Yeah. She's also dope as shit. I super love her. I don't necessarily love the idea. No.

It's not her fault. Right. It's the studio. Because Directors. But also she, like, came in with a character and she was, like, this could be kinda cool, like, whatever, and was, like, down for the commitment of it all as someone who is of Latin and Jewish descent on a variety of sides.

You know, like, I I love Sinead Goldstein. Like, I I frequent her store. I think she's super cool. I love that she did. Great.

It's a great store. It is a yeah. No. Seriously. Shout out.

Go go to her store. Please do. Super sweet lady. What's it called again? Jeanette's Bronx.

Jeanette's Bronx. She she has explained her situation for this movie too. But also too, like, you know, I I don't think of it quite so, like it's not this, like, insidious, like, we didn't hire this versus this. It's like she kinda came in with, like, a character and, like, what was something fair. It's also not derogatory in any way.

No. I've I've never felt insulted by it. In fact, again, going back to the notion of, like, watching something when I was younger and feeling, like, a sense of representation, I was like, oh, fuck it. Like, I had no idea that she was, like, a white chick, like, doing it. I was like, yes, badass.

Like, Hispanic woman, like, I felt so, like, good, like, seeing, like, anybody that was, like, remotely, like, Latino, like, on screen, and that was just The intent was to represent. Yes. Homage not caricature. Yeah. Yes.

I didn't know until right now. Oh, oh, shit. That's on me. There you go. No.

No. No. But, like, also, like, it it goes back to, like it it's always context with a lot of things when you look at it from, like, you you sort of have to just take certain years of lives with a grain of salt. Like, the reality is is that, like, you cannot look back at history with the lens that we have now, in that, like, we have there's just so much more we have now that is better. We're better, like, I would like to think.

I hope. Like and I hope that every yes. And I hope that every day, we are all striving to be better, but it also doesn't change what came before us. Yeah. And so this notion of sort of holding people like, you hold people accountable, but you also can't pretend that they were in a time that wasn't the time that they were in, unfortunately.

Right. Like, I I wish it were different. We all do. Like, we all wish that, like, the time we're in now, this, like, sense of very real accountability that we have now, existed back then, but it just didn't. And, also, it's like tried.

They tried to instill that accountability in the human race, not on technology. And this just goes back to, like, I do not think that this is a person or a character or anybody that needs to be, like, certain. Paul was interrupting your very important, argument here. No. It's all good.

But, no, I was just saying, like, it's it's not something to I don't think it's something that needs to be, like, qualified or that she needs to be held, like, accountable for anything that Has there been a lot of backlash negative backlash to her? I don't think so. Okay. And I really hope that there will not be, and I hope that that continues because, again, I think that she represents something that is just like like, she's just such a fucking badass in it. Like, she really is.

Like, she's so cool, and it's something that, like again, I think a lot of people, like, had they not known, would look at her and go, like, what a bomb ass fucking, you know It's not as, like, Sung Ji. It's not as egregious. Known until this Right. Point. She's also an you know, like yeah.

I again, alien, 5 out of 5. Aliens. You keep you keep trying to make sure you define that. But I do I you know, like, as one thing one thing aliens does do pretty well, and and Vetscast is a great example of this, is that they're all flawed characters. Yeah.

Vetscast is deeply flawed. Mhmm. Hudson is deeply flawed. Oh my goodness gracious. What I mean Yeah.

If you don't pick aliens over alien based on Bill Paxton alone. I mean Bill Paxton's performance is probably one of the best in the entire franchise. It's even better in the special edition because he gets a moment where he, like, comes up to really Ripley and he's like, we're the ultimate fucking badasses. We're the shit. Nobody can beat us.

Like, he, like, literally just, like, soap boxes, like, rants at her how fucking awesome they are and then they, like, flip to, like, how much of a coward he is. But he embodies yeah. He embodies exactly what that is. I'm doing this. Yeah.

The red light is on. Yeah. Wrapping it up. Yeah. So, Ben, you ended at what rating?

Same. 5 orange cats, brilliant, and 4 and a half milk robots. Sure. 5 weird, AI women. To 5, and now improved 4a half split androids.

Thank you for noting that. Well, I cannot remember my initial. I believe you were a 5 and a 4 and a half. No. I know the numbers.

It was just what it was. So I'm gonna say a 4.5 Hawaiian shirts because I can remember a lot. Harry Dean stanion. Really good. Harry Dean stanion.

For my The classic stanion. For the stantions. And a 5, male Octurian Poontang for Right. It doesn't matter when it if they're Octurians. Exactly.

I'm gonna stick with a 5 for aliens. I'm gonna go with 5, I'm gonna go with 5 bills because you can bill me for how badly I just destroyed you when the listeners come back and tell us how this went. Interesting. I almost wanna go to a 3 and a half how this went. For Alien.

You say 3 and a half. But I'm gonna stick it a 4. There's literally nothing that we tore down from them. No. No.

You spent so much time, like, talking about aliens and, like, trying to tear us down in terms of aliens rather than like Is that how it went, Audrey? So it's how it went. Triumph of alien? It was more of a, like, you're you're doing this out of spite though. Maybe.

Which, like, I feel okay. No. I'm not at all. No. I'm not at all.

No. Is that how I I will watch Alien again. Is that how you portray? I will watch it again. But I was really serious in terms of, like, the way it moves at a couple points in time or, like, that well, that's a dude in a suit.

Mhmm. So that piece of it as well as just like To me, it's just story elements. I don't care much about production. Right. I'm gonna get to that point.

Story is so much better. Yeah. So much better. The hero's journey piece of it. It's so much better.

Again, like, somebody coming in at, like, 30 minutes or whatever and finally, like, it's transitioning to that person, like Such a good idea. Being, like like, the back half, kinda driver to a point and mostly driven by reactions based out of fear rather than a driver from the moment with not reactions but actions based on power. So it's it's a little more, exciting and more sexy to me. But I do like as we're talking about it partially, like, the, like, why would you not see the cat as a huge reason why you would go back and wanna like A character reason. Yeah.

Sure. And as well as like me personally as an inspiration. Jonesy. I do. I have a couple Jonesys.

I have a Gigi. My Gigi and a Binksy. So good. But I I mean, like, I do lean a little bit what I've touched on to a degree, a little bit. Some of the things that came before this is is Ben likes to lean on with certain things.

Where it's like this movie, I don't think is like as original as, like, a lot of people give it credit for. It's it's very original, especially in terms of a lot of its execution or when it moves certain plot drivers. But I think when we, like, go, oh, what's the perfect sequel? Like, the original, like, the main idea, the thing that a lot of people are gonna say if it's not Godfather 2 is Terminator 2. Probably Aliens.

Oh, sorry. And and like Terminator 2 is like a a partial step behind because like for me it's I'm gonna lean on the like, okay, Ripley set up Sarah Connor. Android is bad, now Android is good. I went through trauma, now I'm powerful. Like, she just didn't end up in a mental institution, like Sarah Connor did.

She was in the prison of the mind by herself, in these barracks, like sweating and not sleeping. What's funny is I think what you're doing with that is exactly what I'm doing with exactly what I'm doing with alien to aliens. Mhmm. To a degree, I'm just trying to know what came before alien as well, like, as strong as I can. I agree.

I agree. And the time allotted. We should win because my hair looks like Newt. Oh my god. And we got Cleeko.

We got a little we got a little Cleeko going. I mean, by the way, I would like to no one has pointed out here that I have full Jonesy face makeup this entire time. I know. I thought that was a filter. I'm not a cat.

It's amazing. I'm not a cat. I'm I'm here. Get off my watch. It was like a Hunger Games, like, body mod, like, vibe you were going.

I thought we were all the way in the matrix. I mean, I've been sitting with a, like, a, with a facehugger on my face the entire time. This is kinda rough. Like, we all kind of, like, Sanjeev went up a half a point for aliens. But overall, we kind of ended up in a similar point.

So I guess, like, do we leave this to Instagram to, like, vote this out after we premiere the episode? Did we leave this to social media to decide our fate? It's almost like Oh, gross. Gross. That was because I could just take the win based on speed, but I came after I I gave my rating and you can't rely on my honesty.

My wife wants to go to bed. I would like her to be able to do that. I would like to thank, Jamie Henwood for doing our spooky theme app, our fucking themes. I wanna thank Matthew Foskett for, like, kind of like a dime, like, while picketing. Hey bro, spooky theme for October.

What are we watching? Do it. And he's like, yeah, sure. I don't think Sanji, I go get some. You did well.

Thank you for caving to us. I did a great job. I would say I did a great job. I would say half a point isn't caving. It was more of a, like, come on.

Yes. A saguya saga, like, a, a show of friendship. Yes. Yeah. But Love it.

We're still at 5 out of 5 Yeah. On that area. Exactly. We'll get to a 1st party. By the way, you can't out of half of wood.

You, audience member, you can't lose. Go watch them if you haven't. What are you doing? I would like to thank you. To thank me and Yeah.

Because your because your co cancel didn't. And wine. And I would like to thank my co last. Thank you. I was about to thank The sea was sick guys.

For the wine. Clink clink. Cleo. I mean, come on. For the victory.

Bing bing. We came over half. Well, it's up to you, cinematic jury of Instagram. And, tune in next time when I don't know what's gonna be there, but I'm sure it's something interesting. Review x 2 podcast on Instagram at paulaxbat, the on letterboxrunbnte.

At Zereta, is that e r e t a on that part? I don't have a letterbox, but, like, go check out my Instagram. It's just audrey_marie. Also, Zereta on Instagram. I post a picture of the cats.

I'm not even following you. This was I'm gonna look at the both of you between the 2 of you. This was so fun. I watched aliens 3 times and alien twice. I I'm just sick of it.

I'm sick of it. Are we divorced? We've been together for 2, get off my wife. It's the last episode of Over. Yeah.

Yeah. Paul and I have divorced. Tune in next time when the band gets back to you. But like this can be like a little bit contentious. Right?

Because these are both great movies that come from a very different angle. But they're both so fucking good. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah.

I enjoy contention. And so should you. Go argue with your loved ones. Oh, and that's Jessica, Taylor, Rudy. Good night everyone.

Good night everyone. Good night.