Dawn of the Dead (2004) / It's Got STYLE! (Guest: Stimson Snead)

Stimson Snead (Tim Travers and the Time Travelers Paradox) has returned to talk about BEN'S CHOICE(?!) for Spooky Season “Dawn of the Dead” (2004 d. Zack Snyder) Starring: Sarah Polley, Jake Weber, and Ving Rhames. Line up early for the mall opening, cause it's limited capacity, and everything is on sale...FOR FREE! We wax on about the ouvrè of Snyder, have some back and fourth about the importance (or unimportance) of social commentary in horror films, consumerism, and much much more! Enjoy this episode, that we guarantee put no animals in peril. Can we say the same about the movie? Find out, 10/13!

More Stimson:

Season 2 - "Bubba Ho-Tep"

More Zombies:

Season 2 - "Shaun of the Dead"

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Hey everyone, welcome to the video.

SPEAKER_02 0:01

I had the power and I fucking failed.

SPEAKER_03 0:03

Hey, I'm already firing on all cylinders here. Jump right into this show, which is called the Review Review. What the f is this program? It is a movie podcast where it's scary. And it is spooky season, so we are doing spooky scary movies. Uh uh during spooky season, my name is Boo McFadden, and I am one of your co-hosts.

SPEAKER_04 0:29

I'm Putrid Paul.

Guest Intro

SPEAKER_03 0:31

Oh yeah. And on this program, we usually have a guest. That guest brings us a movie. That movie needs to be at least seven years old and something that they haven't seen in a long time, want to revisit, and then we're gonna talk, we're gonna chat, and we're gonna see if our rating out of five has changed. We do have a guest today, but we brought him the movie because our guest is filmmaker, actor, evil genius, returning guest, Stimson Sneed.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

This is scary. Either that would be Stimson Sypolithic Sneed.

SPEAKER_04 1:03

That's good. I want to correct you though, Ben. Okay. We didn't ask. You asked. You brought to be specific.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

I brought so there's some behind-the-scenes drama I've not been following here. Paul, did you not get my Christmas card?

SPEAKER_04 1:19

I'll be making you privy, Paul. Sure about the drama. You'll see.

SPEAKER_03 1:26

We have spooky drama today because it's spooky, spooky season. Uh, we are doing Zack Snyder's Dawn of the Dead. Kind of take a straight from my letterboxed list. You can find me on letterbox at runbmc.

SPEAKER_04 1:41

I'm available on letterboxed. We'll we'll stick with at Paul Acts Badly, but at Puny Putrid Paul, or I'm liking this wordplay. I'm considering some things.

Whatcha Been Doin?

SPEAKER_03 1:53

Before we get too far into the Zack Snyder of it all, Stimson, we gotta know what you've been doing.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Is now in wide release. And mostly I've just been trying to turn my mind to new stuff. But on old stuff, check out Tim Travers and the Time Traveler's Paradox. It is the only reason I'm even on Letterboxd is to track other people's reviews.

SPEAKER_03 2:36

Speaking of wordplay, though. And go and Tim Travers Time. Last time you were on here, you hadn't released it. Now it is released, it is seen in the world. I have seen it, it's great. It's so stimson. It's so much fun. And where can they watch it now?

SPEAKER_01 2:51

Right now you can watch it everywhere. Although by the time this podcast episode goes up, we should be widely in release on commercial supported. So you'll be able to watch it for free by the time it goes up. And it will be everywhere on literally all the streamers you've heard.

SPEAKER_04 3:07

When you say commercial supported, and I mean you you just basically said like literally fucking everywhere, but I'm gonna make you be specific. Tubi, Pluto, things of this nature where commercials are built in that are free. Like if you're like me and you qualify, if you have a low enough income and you get Tubi, I can watch it on Tubi.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

You absolutely almost certainly can watch it on Tubi, but for legal reasons, I cannot specify which ones until they're actually already out. But almost certainly Tubi will be among them.

SPEAKER_04 3:37

Sounds like a usual suspect. Could be in the mix. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Anything else you've been up to?

SPEAKER_03 3:43

Where have you been traveling?

SPEAKER_01 3:45

I've been traveling. I decided to uh go check out New Zealand. I gotta say, great area, neighbors, very friendly, bit of a weird religious thing about rings that I don't quite follow, but really beautiful countryside. Love New Zealand, and uh it's at the top of my list of countries to flee to. I made a point when I was there going to Hobbiton, getting myself a sterling silver one ring, authentic with cool stuff on it. And there are actual volcanoes, or at the very least, tar pits there. I might get drunk and throw it in one. You never know.

SPEAKER_04 4:20

Uh that is actually something that Sean Aston has vowed as the new president of SAGAFTRA that anyone who goes on the journey, he's coming with you. He's there to support you.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

Well, I gotta say, I am a I am a union actor myself, so I feel like I should hold him to that.

SPEAKER_04 4:37

I mean No, I'm just speaking as his unauthorized unknown biographer and representative. So you mean stalker.

SPEAKER_03 4:46

Don't don't quote him for legal reasons. We can't say stalker. Paul is just Can I say stalker? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:53

This episode is brought to you by 500 feet. It's 500 feet, sir.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

This episode is brought to you by our respective legal teams who will be reviewing this transcript at length before it goes live.

SPEAKER_04 5:11

Uh Paul, what have you been doing? I want to inform those that do not know, as I thought it was very common, but I also sent, I mean, I used this probably 25 or 30 times to send Ben gifts. I want to spread the good word of media mail. Why do I want to do that? Well, recently I went to the post office and sent myself a bunch of my vinyl collection and movies and stuff like that to another address and said, I want to send this media mail. And holy shit, did I get grilled up to an including? Does this include like your personal journals? And we just did uh seven Stimson, and I'm also aware of this face and this mustache, and they're like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what's going on in here?

SPEAKER_01 5:59

Yeah, and I got I was not going to add judgment, I was just quietly judging on the internal monologue.

SPEAKER_04 6:05

And I mean, it was a US post office, so they were like 500 feet, sir. You know you weren't supposed to be in here, but I did it anyway. I sent the stuff and it ended up all being fine. But they were talking about inspecting my mail and again personal journals and different items that could be in there. And I'm like, can I just send my shit? Like, what's going on here? And I the reason for that is I sent 51 pounds of stuff for$37. So, those of you that don't know, vinyls, books, movies, these types of things can be sent via the media mail if you need to send them, and it is an affordable way to ship bags. Oh, yeah, that is that is gonna be there probably Tuesday, Wednesday. Just what I sent, what you wanted is gonna be there.

SPEAKER_03 6:57

Our legal team is um doing backflips right now.

SPEAKER_04 7:01

We're so fucking terrible at this crap. We're so bad at this.

SPEAKER_03 7:07

Yeah, we'll get pulled off the air, don't worry. Um, what have I been doing? You've been wondering, right? Is that what you've been wondering?

SPEAKER_04 7:15

It's true.

SPEAKER_03 7:15

Uh well, are you hi boo? My name is Boo McFadden. Boo B scary. I could have come up with a better scary name, but I didn't.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

You know, like just commit, double down. You know, like Fadden.

SPEAKER_03 7:29

At the end of the Simpsons when they list all the demanding and a meeting. First thing I saw is imitation. And like then you just have like the boo McFadden's. You're like, oh, they didn't even try it. They were just like, No, I don't know. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

How about Boo McDedden?

SPEAKER_03 7:41

Mmm. That's not bad. Big McFuckin. This is fucking too hard.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Wait, that's not true. I feel like I wouldn't see that in the Simpsons credits.

SPEAKER_04 7:53

Boo McFucken? It's it's changed a lot since it's been on Disney Plus. You'd be shocked. The changes are bizarre.

SPEAKER_03 8:02

It's also gonna get pulled off the air. I have been getting ready for 1448 Hollywood's first ever mixer and fundraiser, which we are hosting on Saturday, November 15th at the Roguelike Tavern. It's our first time that we're actually doing something separate than just the festival. We're hoping to bring in all of our artists that we've had before, all anyone who's ever seen it, anyone who's ever supported us, and there'll be live music. There'll be some readings of some of the plays from previous um seasons of the festival. I'll be hosting it and uh a raffle. And so we're hoping to raise a little bit of money to help us sort of progress into the new year as well as separate into our own 501c3, which we are not currently, but we are a financially uh fiscally sponsored 501c3. So any donations are tax deductible.

SPEAKER_04 8:56

Hey, there you go.

SPEAKER_03 8:57

So November 15th, 1448 Hollywood mixer and fundraiser at the roguelike tavern in Burbank, California.

SPEAKER_04 9:04

Fantastic. That's on Pass Avenue, very conveniently located, easy to park. Yeah, no problemo.

SPEAKER_03 9:10

It's on Avon's parking lot. Great. I am I feel great. Stimson?

SPEAKER_01 9:16

I feel great. I feel like I should redo my plug. You took yours so much more seriously than I did my own. What?

SPEAKER_04 9:21

I prefer you know what I'm gonna say. Everybody's feeling great. I feel best when I feel like shit. Like when we watched seven and at times when I was watching this movie.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

Hmm.

What Are You Watching?

SPEAKER_04 9:32

Yeah. But what I have a lot of thoughts on this movie. But before that, Simpson, what have you been watching?

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Okay, I have been watching two things. One, I have been really enjoying Alien Earth. I think it's fantastic. I have also, and because I like to be up to speed on new and current shows, I have finally been sitting down to watch the 1970s production of iClaudius. And I gotta say, that's the one all the kids should be talking about right now. Hey, Claudius.

SPEAKER_03 10:31

Say more.

SPEAKER_01 10:32

Okay, it's the story of Claudius, but with all the British actors you know and love when they were way younger. Uh, John Hurt as Caligula. How could you not love this? Patrick Stewart with a full head of hair, and it's weird to look at. It just feels fundamentally wrong on a deep level.

SPEAKER_03 10:51

Where are you watching this?

SPEAKER_01 10:53

Uh, it's on Britbox, and also because I'm a nerd on DVD, which I own.

SPEAKER_04 10:58

Nice. About to ask the same thing. I was hoping it was maybe on Canopy. My fingers were crossed.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

I believe it's also on Britbox, but I've been watching my DVD copies of it because I don't trust streamers not to change things.

SPEAKER_03 11:08

We were just talking about that, so I totally, totally get the you're the like maybe the third or fourth person who said Alien Earth, because I'm praising Alien Earth every episode right now.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

It's fantastic. Although I'm two episodes behind, so you keep your filthy mouth shut.

SPEAKER_03 11:22

Same I'm a few episodes behind. My mouth is filthy.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

And I won't spoil what happens to Emperor Claudius in the Roman Empire for you.

SPEAKER_04 11:31

Oh, I thought you were gonna say an Alien Earth.

SPEAKER_02 11:33

I was like, oh shit, they crossed it over.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

I mean, it takes place on Earth. My Claudius takes place on Earth. Is that I think there's a cinematic universe connection here.

SPEAKER_03 11:45

I mean, Ice Age also exists in Alien Earth because they're watching it. So that's on Earth. Is that something exactly?

SPEAKER_01 11:51

Is that I mean there's overlap here. Also, it is technically owned by Disney, so I think this whole standing with the Marvel Cinematic Universe and the princesses.

SPEAKER_04 11:59

It feels a little over the top, but I think I think we could do it. I think we can pull this off. Ben, I think we should just do an Alien Earth pilot episode if we have time. I can cut this if we don't, but I'm I'm only two point couple episodes in, and I'm gonna start over. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

And so it's the first thing I can remember in like decades that I genuinely feel like has made this franchise better for its presence. And that by itself gets me excited.

SPEAKER_04 12:29

Ben's been such a big champion for it.

SPEAKER_03 12:31

Yeah, and it takes the themes and blows them up in a different way, like goes in a different direction than we've seen before, and not just like rehashing. It's been a lot of what we've seen.

SPEAKER_04 12:41

Ben put it really well where the fans of the alien predator universe, like it's like the predator mandible opens or the little alien mouth, and we eaten from those weird, scary mouths. This is scary. We eaten 500 feet, 500 feet.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

Yeah, I was gonna say, Paul, I have a lot of questions about your internet search history right now, and I'm happy to leave those questions deep in the dark.

SPEAKER_03 13:06

You can you can leave those 500 500 feet away.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

500 uh may not be enough.

SPEAKER_04 13:12

We have a lot of legal sponsors on this podcast, which I'm starting to get concerned about.

SPEAKER_01 13:19

Like I said, the lawyers are gonna have a field day with this episode.

SPEAKER_03 13:22

Oh shit. We have to make sure though this episode is approved by our legal team. So, Paul, please. Me? Yeah. I was I was trying to figure out what to talk about because I've seen a few handful of things recently. And uh so I've chosen two. And one of them I thought I would really enjoy and ended up not really enjoying, and one of them I didn't think I would enjoy as much as I did. And I'm gonna tell you what those two are, and I want you to guess which is which. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

Do we get any context clues or do we just start spitballing now?

SPEAKER_03 13:56

I don't care. I don't know. I'll tell you the two movies first. And then uh I saw K-pop demon hunters, and I saw the long walk. Ooh, I want to see that.

SPEAKER_01 14:09

Okay, this almost feels like a crit trick question because knowing you you should hate K-pop demon hunters and love the long walk. However, you did just set up that you were surprised. So are you a K-pop demon hunter fan?

SPEAKER_04 14:24

I'm with Stimson here.

SPEAKER_03 14:26

I think it's that. That is the correct answer. Yes. Okay. I went into first off, I went and saw The Long Walk and AMC Burbank 16 and Dolby. I was really looking forward to it. I heard great things, big Stephen King fan.

SPEAKER_04 14:41

Your David Johnson stan.

SPEAKER_03 14:43

David Johnson stan. And I didn't like it very much. And I think the struggle with that script for me is that ultimately, I mean, it's Stephen King working in a lot of his similar wheelhouses, which is like throwing people together in a stressful situation and watching the characters, you know, crumble or rise to the occasion.

SPEAKER_04 15:11

Humanity's true nature.

SPEAKER_03 15:13

Yeah, and similar to kind of similar to how this movie that we've talked about today throws people together. The problem is, to me, it's like this the pitch is it's Hunger Games, except there's no fighting, it's just walking. And I think because of that, you really need to rely heavily on the talent of your performers, your dialogue, and the direction. And the talent of the performers I thought was pretty good. David Johnson's phenomenal. And then I just thought the direction felt not really very interesting.

SPEAKER_04 15:46

That's a bummer.

SPEAKER_03 15:48

For me at least. And like I looked up that dude, and that's the dude who directed Hunger Games. Yeah, you know, those are pretty like standard blockbusters that don't really stretch much outside of so yeah, and like the allegory behind it is very clear. It's like it's it's about war, but there's no war, there's just walking. I personally, it's a mid-range movie to me. It's a two and a half bordering um movie for me. And then I really enjoyed K-pop Demon Hunters. I thought it was so much fun, and the music got stuck in my fucking head, and I can't get it out.

SPEAKER_04 16:18

Okay, that's awesome. Did you go to a sing-along?

unknown 16:21

And it can be.

SPEAKER_04 16:22

No, I just think. They have those, right?

SPEAKER_03 16:24

Oh, they do.

SPEAKER_04 16:25

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

I think in the theater, I think. Yeah, Ben, if you've gone full Demon Hunter K-pop fan, you gotta go to one of the sing alongs.

SPEAKER_04 16:32

Thank you, Stimson. Okay, I'm there.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

Like, embrace your new found fandom. I mean you found a new thing.

SPEAKER_03 16:38

It felt like to me, I was like, oh, it's a it's a buffy sing-along episode in a fun way.

SPEAKER_04 16:43

Great. Yeah, I wanna ask expound a little on long walk because I think that book is fantastic. And so much of it is about the gamesmanship, the psychological warfare and relationships, and how nasty these people are to each other that in the are in the contest, essentially. Does that come through in the movie?

SPEAKER_03 17:08

Yeah. The performances are decent. Like they're they're not bad performances.

SPEAKER_04 17:13

But it's based on the performances and not as much in the writing or something.

SPEAKER_03 17:18

Yeah, I guess like the you know, the no, the writing's okay. The dialogue is okay. I think the the tension by direction, like to me, the direction was just not what we needed someone with a with a much like clear.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

How's Mark Hamill?

SPEAKER_03 17:33

He's okay. Oh I I'm I'm a big I I like Mark Hamill. Uh I feel like though sometimes, especially like in the Flanagan stuff, and sometimes he he doesn't really disappear. You're just like, yeah, that's Mark Hamill. Uh not you know, unlike his voiceover stuff where you're like, oh yeah, he totally disappears into his voiceover stuff. But when he's on screen, you're like, oh yeah, that's that's Mark Hamill.

SPEAKER_04 17:56

Dude, when he's like, I'm the Joker, you believe it. I didn't believe it. He's fucking fantastic. It wasn't great. I didn't push that hard. Stop it. You know what? You stop it. And no one has been as transformative in a role since Mark Hamill in The Gyver. The what?

SPEAKER_05 18:13

Right. So what have I been watching?

SPEAKER_04 18:17

The Giver? The Gyver, the Gyver, the Gyver.

SPEAKER_03 18:22

Alright, Paul, just tell them what you're watching when we get fucked on. Yeah, I think that's probably a good idea.

SPEAKER_04 18:27

Uh I just want to say, I know we normally try to keep this a little spookier or whatnot, things like the long walk in Alien Earth right now. We had a massively tragic loss in this world about a week ago, and that is Robert Redford. An American through and through. And I had to re-watch sneakers. I had to. And for those who haven't seen it, it's like this absolutely unbelievable cast. Redford, Poitiers, Aykroyd, River Phoenix, Ben Kingsley, Mary McDonald. Like it goes on and on and on. And it's imagine like Mission Impossible at a low budget with a bunch of amateurs like trying to pull this off, or what have you, or what feels like a lower budget. And it's just such a great movie. And I do have it digitally. And Stimson, you were talking about physical media. I want to get the Kino Lorber as it's 50% off in 4K right now, and they're big on preservation. So I assume I will be able to get you know what I'm always used to seeing. And sneakily as we're talking about this during spooky season. It's a Christmas movie. And so I think I may revisit it around Christmas moving forward. I just I had to. I have a confessional movie.

SPEAKER_03 19:59

I've never seen it.

SPEAKER_04 20:00

It's so good. Again, it's such a joyful, fun movie, and you can tell everybody had the best time making it. And it's Phil Alden Robinson who did Field of Dreams. So it has this aspirational, fun, kind of clever light feel all the way through. Like it never takes itself too seriously, even though the stakes are literally like this is a computer that could topple governments, change how money works, etc., etc. The stakes are massive, but they never it never feels overwhelming. It's a really cool thing.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

To just to jump in on just the whole feeling and the vibe of the film, when you spend a lot of time in the uh modern independent world, a lot of these sort of underground film festivals, it's difficult to articulate, but you will come across a certain kind of film where, regardless of the genre, you can smell the pleasure that every single person involved in making the film had. Sneakers is that kind of movie. And again, if you're a regular in any of the modern independent underground sort of film scene, you know the feeling when it's there.

SPEAKER_04 21:08

That's such a good way to put it. It's just toasty. It's got a toastiness to it. Like it's got it's got a level of just like warmth to it and comfort, and just I don't, it's got a tone to it that's so I don't know, vibrant. I don't even know if I can articulate or understand what you're saying or say what I want to say. It's just something so it's it's a movie movie. It's I think we've said this before in the podcast.

SPEAKER_03 21:35

While we're on the subject of Robert Redford, real quick, I just want to highly recommend uh all the president's men while we're you know in this current climate of our of our of our world. I think it's a a movie to revisit.

SPEAKER_02 21:48

It can only good happen.

SPEAKER_03 21:49

Well, Paul Simpson, Paul?

SPEAKER_01 21:53

Yes, we did it. Well, it's been a great podcast, guys. It's been great talking about thanks for having me on the show.

"Dawn of the Dead" Facts

SPEAKER_03 22:00

It is now time, Paul, to talk facts. Spooky facts.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

Archaeology is the search for facts.

SPEAKER_04 22:12

This movie is Dawn of the Dead, not George Romero's Dawn of the Dead, or involved with any Dawn of the Dead or a sequel to Night of the Living Dead that Tom Savini did with Tony Todd. This is a completely on its own thing. But a reimagining? Yeah, a remake? Reimagining remake.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

I think this fits into the classic definition of a remake because it's the same ideas, same themes, just bigger budget.

SPEAKER_04 22:39

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

I think this is the a textbook remake.

SPEAKER_04 22:43

Okay. This was produced by Strike in New Amsterdam and at the very least, distributed by Universal. It's rated R. It's two hours and four minutes. I watched the one hour and 41 minute theatrical cut.

SPEAKER_03 22:59

That's what I watched too.

SPEAKER_04 23:00

Stimson Scott Wide. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

I was unaware there was a longer version.

SPEAKER_04 23:05

Good for you, man. Good for you. I didn't know that either.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

I I live in ignorance.

SPEAKER_04 23:10

Blissful. Budget of this film,$26 million adjusted. That's$44.4 million. Opening weekend. That's spooky. Opening weekend, March 19, 2004,$26.7 million in the US. That is$45.66.

SPEAKER_03 23:27

$666?

SPEAKER_04 23:29

I think just the two. Million adjust. But that was spooky. Million adjusted. Final gross in North America.$59 million. Adjusted. That's$100.9 million. Final gross worldwide.$102.2. Adjusted. That's$174.77.

SPEAKER_03 23:50

That's holy. That's not spooky.

SPEAKER_04 23:52

And what 20? I don't know. We just did seven. I spooked out.

SPEAKER_03 23:56

But also, I just want to really quickly say that he makes that 26 million work.

SPEAKER_04 24:02

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:04

That's kind of crazy to me.

SPEAKER_04 24:06

I'm with you. Other releases this weekend. Taking lives. Remember that?

SPEAKER_03 24:12

I do.

SPEAKER_04 24:13

Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind in a limited release. Remember that?

SPEAKER_03 24:17

So pause here real quick because I know we're going to get to this, but I want to bring it up now, which is basically Stimson. When was the last time you saw this movie, real quick?

SPEAKER_01 24:27

I saw this movie when I was in high school. In fact, I watched it back to back with Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind as a double feature with friends. So who was the friend I was with at the time? Trying to remember his name, some jackass by the name of like uh Matt Barrow.

SPEAKER_04 24:44

It was it was Matt Barrow. Well, clearly, you two don't have spotless minds, and that didn't work out because you both remember, but that was the release. Yeah. Weekend top five were this film, The Passion of the Christ, Taking Lives, Starsky and Hutch, and Secret Window. Other films.

SPEAKER_03 25:04

I want to mention real quick, I saw every single one of those in the movie theater.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

Oh. I saw all of them but taking lives because I still genuinely don't know what film this is.

SPEAKER_03 25:14

And Juliana Jolie.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

Ethan. I missed that one.

SPEAKER_03 25:18

Yeah, it wasn't very good. But I definitely saw Passion of the Christ at like an 11 p.m. showing.

SPEAKER_04 25:23

Ooh. It's just a dude getting the shit beat out of him for like a couple hours. It's just, I never want to see that again.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

That's beautifully photographed, dude getting the shit kicked out of him.

SPEAKER_04 25:35

I'm almost certain it was. Other films from 2004. A movie that was actually not well photographed, Van Helsing. The Village, The Grudge, The Forgotten, Saw, Open Water, and Blade Trinity.

SPEAKER_03 25:53

There was a Van Helsing trailer on my DVD of Dawn and the Dead that I watched this morning. I'll tell you that. That I bought from Half Price Books on Capitol Hill for$4.99.

SPEAKER_04 26:04

How terrible does that does do the effects on that Van Helsing DVD on a modern TV look?

SPEAKER_03 26:12

Awful. Quite awful. You know what's fascinating though? Is I'll just mention one thing is that they used some practical effects in that movie, but they shot them so horribly that you couldn't really tell. Like the um the Hyde at the beginning, the Mr. Hyde, that was like a practical puppet suit. It just isn't. That was wasn't that um, what's his name?

SPEAKER_01 26:33

Are you sure that's not the Hyde from a League of Extraordinary Gentlemen?

SPEAKER_04 26:37

Because there was a Hyde in that who was a oh, maybe I'm conflating and that also wasn't good.

SPEAKER_01 26:42

We had two superpowered Mr. Hydes within like three years of each other. It was a weird time. Hyde Fever.

SPEAKER_04 26:49

People had hide fever. He was a doctor.

SPEAKER_03 26:52

He sounded like David Lynch that first.

SPEAKER_02 26:54

Hyver.

SPEAKER_03 26:56

People have hide fever.

SPEAKER_01 26:58

Blue velvet. Try to hide your emotions.

unknown 27:01

I don't know what to do.

SPEAKER_03 27:02

I can't. I'm watching internal century. Spotless money.

SPEAKER_04 27:05

Old Dr. Jekyll. Letterboxd average of this film is 3.4. Follow us, won't you?

SPEAKER_03 27:10

At Run BMC.

SPEAKER_04 27:11

At Paul Acts Badly. Stimson, you had mentioned you like to do a little spying. Huh? What's going on here? On Letterboxd.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

Oh, yeah. I like, yeah, I follow what people say about my movie, which you should all go check out and see. But otherwise, uh, I'm a social media ghost. There's no way you can follow me. You will not find me.

SPEAKER_03 27:32

Oh wow. That's spooky. That is spooky. You're a ghost.

SPEAKER_04 27:37

It's a good good good good good go. Roger Ebert. No, wait, he actually died. R.I.P. Roger Ebert is three out of four. Yeah, exactly the passion of Rotten Tomatoes 76%. Popcorn 77%. I don't know if we've ever had ones that are that close to each other before. Metacritic 71, 7.2 users, major award wins and nominations, two Saturn nominations, Bram Stoker nomination for best horror screenplay.

SPEAKER_03 28:13

Ben, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:14

Tell me about the psychos that made this scary.

SPEAKER_03 28:18

Let's talk about some psychos. The director of this movie is one and only leader of the cult known as Zack Snyder.

SPEAKER_04 28:26

No, no, you didn't. We didn't mean to associate him with a psycho or a cult. He is a tour. He's amazing. He is he everything a master. Everything he touches is gold. I think he's just a guy.

SPEAKER_03 28:38

What? No, what? There's a term in football. I can't associate with that. There's a term in football where a receiver is a jag. Have you heard of this term? They they call that receiver a jag, which means they're not great, they're not bad, they're just a guy. And I fall on the I don't fall on the I hate everything Zack Snyder does train that I think the internet wants me to. I don't fall on the I praise this the ground this the man walks on train. I fall on the eh, well, I don't know. But the movies that we're gonna talk about here, Rebel Moon, Rebel Moon 2, Army of the Dead are all dog shit. So um those movies are. And it's one of the worst photographed movies I've ever seen because the cinematographer, Zack Snyder, the writers on this movie, James Gunn, Slither Super, uh, and George A. Romero, RIP for the original. And this is one of the reasons I wanted to do this one is I found it fascinating that we have currently in our movie internet culture zeitgeist this this whole d discussion around Snyder V V gunn with the DC shit. And I always point to this movie to be like, you know, they actually work together.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

They broke literally Snyder's first film. Literally Snyder's first film, period. Written by James Gunn.

SPEAKER_04 29:54

Yeah. I didn't know this was his first overall film. I didn't know. And that's it, they they kind of broke out. Together. I mean, they'd gun had been working, I know, for a long time.

SPEAKER_03 30:04

As a screenwriter, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:05

With trauma and stuff like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:07

Oh, yeah, and independently, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:08

Yeah. And Scooby-Doo, his masterpiece.

SPEAKER_03 30:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 30:12

Did he do part two as well? Scooby-Doo? I believe part two.

SPEAKER_03 30:16

Why are you holding three up?

SPEAKER_04 30:17

Because my pinky hurt. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 30:19

Paul just said part two and was giving us the American three. Not the German three. The American three.

SPEAKER_01 30:25

Oh no. Yeah, never do the American three around Germans. You're gonna get yourself shot. Yeah.

unknown 30:31

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 30:32

My pinky.

SPEAKER_03 30:32

That's spooky.

SPEAKER_04 30:33

My hand hurts.

SPEAKER_03 30:34

That's dangerous. Director of photography of this movie is Matthew F. Leonetti, Weird Science, What Happens in Vegas, and Poltergeist. Listen to our poltergeist episode. Music, Tyler Bates, who did James Gunn's Guardians of Galaxy, Atomic Blonde, and Zack Snyder's Sucker Punch, one of the worst movies I've ever seen. Okay, maybe I am falling on one side of that argument. Producers Richard R. Rubenstein, Pet Cemetery from 89, and Dune Part 1 from 2021. Eric Newman, Children of Men, uh, and In Time, Mark Abraham, the Robocop remake from 2014, and the Thing remake. Oh. Two movies that did not need to be remade.

SPEAKER_04 31:16

I'll say, could Mark Abraham do me a favor and stop remaking awesome movies?

SPEAKER_03 31:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:21

Don't need to be, don't, you don't need to do it. It's okay.

SPEAKER_03 31:25

He's like, you know what? I could do that worse.

SPEAKER_01 31:29

I love how on your script, by the way, you put many others next to him for remakes. Like, and you put it in a red all caps font because you really didn't want us to miss that detail.

SPEAKER_04 31:41

You know what I love? It could be that I don't remember. It also could be many others in terms of other producers. It could be both.

SPEAKER_01 31:50

I there's anger coming across in the font.

SPEAKER_04 31:53

It's red.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:54

You got red on me. Stop it. Starring in this movie is Sarah Paulie, Anna. No such thing, exotica, go, and also a filmmaker who made Women Talking and has a great cameo in the studio. If you haven't seen that episode, that episode is great.

SPEAKER_04 32:09

Yeah, so good.

SPEAKER_03 32:10

Uh Ving Rames plays Kenneth, Pulp Fiction, Undisputed, Bringing Out the Dead. This ain't no movie. This ain't Makai Pfeiffer. Oh, this is a movie. This is Mackay Pfeiffer. And this has nothing to do with 8 Mile. Oh, sorry. Uh, he plays Andre O, one of my favorite, favorite Shakespeare adaptations. Oh, paid in full shaft and eight mile.

SPEAKER_04 32:31

Oh shit. I guess we were gonna talk about 8 Mile, my bad.

SPEAKER_03 32:34

Jake Weber plays Michael, Meet Joe Black, U571, Midway, Ty Burrell plays Steve, The Incredible Hulk, Finding Dory, The Muppets Most Wanted. Michael Kelly plays CJ Chronicle. Now you see me, Man of Steel, Zach Snyder. Kevin Zeggers plays Terry, Nighthawks from 2019, Aftermath, Airbud.

SPEAKER_04 32:56

Goldstander. Hell yeah. Hard in the paint.

SPEAKER_03 32:59

That's spooky.

SPEAKER_04 33:01

That dog can play basketball like a motherfucker.

SPEAKER_03 33:04

He's clearly have he has a demon inside of him.

SPEAKER_04 33:07

This is scarier than Teen Wolf.

SPEAKER_03 33:11

Michael Barry plays Bart, Detroit Rock City, All I Wanna Do and Sugar. Lindy Booth plays Nicole. Teenage Space Vampires. Never heard of it. Wanna see it?

SPEAKER_04 33:20

Yeah, based on title.

SPEAKER_03 33:22

Yeah, I'm in. American Psycho 2, All American Girl, Rub and Tug. Whoa. Uh Fairy Tales and Pornography. Well, this movie.

SPEAKER_01 33:31

Wait, is there a movie called Pornography, or were you just saying she does pornography?

SPEAKER_03 33:36

Rub and Tug. Is Rub and Tug what you do after you watch Fairy Tales and Pornography?

SPEAKER_04 33:41

I find this, I find this vague. I found the title Fairy Tales and Pornography fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

Oh, it's fairy tales and pornography. Right, but it can't be okay.

SPEAKER_04 33:52

I would try to put a comma after fairy tales. I would try.

SPEAKER_01 33:57

That sounds like a that sounds more wholesome somehow.

SPEAKER_03 34:01

Also, American Psycho 2, All American Girl, completely undermines American Psycho. If you've never, if you never have you ever has anyone ever seen it?

SPEAKER_04 34:10

The s the second one?

SPEAKER_03 34:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:12

No, I have not.

SPEAKER_03 34:13

Because they Mila Kunis? Yeah, but the premise in that is that she worships the serial killer Patrick Bateman. And we all know from that movie and book that he's Uncle Bob. Right. It doesn't make any sense. They make they basically whoever made that movie was like, yeah, he was a serial killer, so we're just gonna worship and was like, wait a minute, did you not see the movie?

SPEAKER_04 34:32

There's like a group of producers and writers and all sorts of people that were like, Oh, I didn't get it at all. Andor There's money to be made here.

SPEAKER_01 34:41

I don't think it's mutually exclusive. I didn't see it, but there is money to be made.

FUN Facts!

SPEAKER_03 34:46

What's what's that? Star Wars? I don't give a shit. Put it up. Make money. Yep, give it money. Jane Eastwood plays Norma, Videodrome, My Big Fat Greek Wedding, and Trigger Point. Tired of talking of all those people. Stimson, can you please give us some fun facts?

SPEAKER_04 35:00

Fun facts, fun facts, everybody. It's fun fact time.

SPEAKER_01 35:04

Okay, I'm gonna start with my favorite of the fun facts that you guys dug up. So there's a scene early on when Vig Raim's insured, he's got this big bloody wound, and Anna, who plays a nurse, is stitching him up. Snyder hired a real nurse for the close-ups, and the real nurse accidentally punctured Vig Raim's skin and started stitching him up for real. Vig Raims did not break character until after the scene was done filming, and Zyder and Snyder commented that he thought the blood was a really good-looking effect.

SPEAKER_04 35:36

Until this fact was dug up, I always thought they really kind of overdid it with that.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

No, he bled for that shot. You damn right did not, you do not cut that shot. He bled for that shot.

SPEAKER_03 35:48

That's insane. I mean, and credit to Ving Rames, I guess. To like stick with it.

SPEAKER_01 35:53

Hung in. CJ later has a line in an elevator where he's where they're all terrified and they're listening to the elevator music and just CJ, I like this song.

SPEAKER_03 36:03

It was a great turns out he improvised it.

SPEAKER_01 36:05

There was literally no music playing. As anybody who's ever been on a film set knows, there's never actually any music playing. That was just the actor having fun.

SPEAKER_03 36:13

That was a great little line. And I think when I see that guy, I think of him as Doug from uh House of Cards. House of Cards.

SPEAKER_04 36:19

Doug Stamper Man. He is fantastic. He is a fantastic actor.

SPEAKER_01 36:24

Yeah. What's interesting to me, given that this is one of the Zach's one of the uh James Gunn's grips, and James Gunn loves picking his needle drops. It's sort of surprising that all the needle drops in this, and this is another one fact, were picked by Zack Snyder personally, including When The Man Comes Around by Johnny Cash, Richard Cheese's cover of Disturbs with Down with the Sickness. Uh Snyder was the only person who thought these songs should be in the films, basically pulled rank, even though the producers were against it. I like to imagine that there was like James Gunn off to the side going, trust me, pick your music, pick your music, just trust me. I just picture little James Gunn like encouraging him off to the side.

SPEAKER_04 37:02

I bet after the first weekend grosses, he went back to the doubters and was like, ooh, wah.

SPEAKER_03 37:08

I bet he was like, ooh, wah uh, down with the sickness. Like Richard's. Yeah. I do want to say that it seems to me that he has gotten really far away from those needle drops. And I'm I'm a big fan of a good needle drop. And I feel like Snyder kind of does not do that anymore.

SPEAKER_01 37:32

Snyder was always more visual guy. Like that's his language, that's his happy place.

SPEAKER_03 37:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:37

Uh other fun fact. And this one, I don't know if this is a fun fact or not. I'm looking at it right now, and I think it's I don't know, a little sad. So Nancy from the original Nightmare on Elm Street, played by Heather Leggenkamp, worked as a member of the production crew on this film. And part of me is going, oh, that's interesting, but also going, I would rather she was acting.

SPEAKER_04 37:59

I think it was a by-choice thing, like an ex wanted the experience thing, like just wanted to be involved thing.

SPEAKER_01 38:07

I think in that case, good for her, and that is a fun fact. But I don't know. Like my my initial read of that was just, oh.

SPEAKER_04 38:14

Yeah, it's just like my my is it actors or is it anger? And Stimson's like, it's anger. It's anger.

SPEAKER_01 38:22

It's not true. It's anger. I choose the verbatim.

SPEAKER_04 38:25

That's the direction we're taking. Oh, hi Mark.

SPEAKER_01 38:27

And uh for our last fun fact, and I'm going to read this verbatim and not paraphrase at all. And the spookiest fact of all. This was Shang. This is higher. I did not add those O's. I did not add those O's.

SPEAKER_03 38:47

I I do want to add the one about James Gunn received a massive amount of fan backlash. No, it's all right. Even death threats. When has this man not received death threats and fan backlash? What does he have to do? What does a guy have to do to not receive the hack who wrote Scooby-Doo should not be in charge of Dawn and the Dead?

SPEAKER_04 39:07

And I guess that was one of the nicer ones in some cases that he received.

SPEAKER_01 39:12

Well, I like to think that maybe this was a good learning step for him because keep in mind when this film came out, there was no social media yet. People were not, there was no Twitter, people were not able to approach you. So these were the early day haters who had to go to the trouble to write a letter, physically put it in an envelope, stamp that letter, address it, and then presumably he read and opened these.

SPEAKER_04 39:35

Yeah, that and he was frequenting moviepoop shoot.com and you know he was clapping back like these little fucking motherfuckers. Now it's 500 feet as a result. It is 500 feet.

SPEAKER_03 39:50

Our legal team is letting me know we do have to take a break, and we all need to take a 500-foot step back. And before we do that, Stimson, when we come back from this break, we are going to play a little game of Cinephile and talk a little bit about our first rating out of five and our new rating out of five. And then we're gonna talk about this movie. And before we do that, I need you to give me your best version of a log line for this movie. We're heading down that elevator. There's zombies on the second floor. We're taking down three, you know, three floors on an elevator. Pitch me this movie in one to three sentences.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

People you want to see get eaten are gonna get eaten, and people who you don't care about are gonna get shot. There's gonna be blood, there will be boobs, and why are you not screen lighting this immediately?

SPEAKER_03 40:42

Sold.

SPEAKER_01 40:43

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 40:44

Dollar signs, we're gonna make so much fucking easy to get.

SPEAKER_01 40:47

Yeah. Howard, that's more than the log line, but uh that's my pitch.

SPEAKER_03 40:52

Alright. We will be back, and there will be blood.

SPEAKER_04 40:55

Should we should we tell them the real log line?

SPEAKER_03 40:58

Oh, I guess we should, huh?

SPEAKER_04 41:00

I don't know. I mean, a nurse, a cop, a young married couple, and other survivors of a worldwide plague that is producing aggressive flesh-eating zombies take refuge in a mid-west mega shopping mall. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 41:15

I reject the need to describe a zombie as flesh-eating. That just seems like bad word economy.

Brought to You By

SPEAKER_04 41:21

Sustained. Alright, Paul, you want to take us out? You're allowed within 250. We're going to break. You know, faster. We didn't even get to the 500 feet until just now.

SPEAKER_01 41:42

I mean, but we weren't properly motivated. You didn't release zombies. It's motivation, Paul. Motivation.

SPEAKER_03 41:49

I was trying to get up to speed to get 500 feet back like these zombies are. You know, these zombies are fast. These are fast zombies, and they are fast. This episode's going fast.

SPEAKER_01 41:58

Well, this was like one of the first, I think this was the first zombie film with actual zombies, capital Z to come out after 28 days later. So this was the first of the whole we're going to take the fast zombies from 28 days later, but apply it to the or sorry, infected, but apply it to traditional zombies. I think this was the first one that did that.

SPEAKER_04 42:19

Uh I think that might be true. I think Return of the Living Dead from 85 has one or more running zombies.

SPEAKER_03 42:29

But not they're not all fast, like in 28 days. No, no.

SPEAKER_04 42:32

I think it's like almost like a special thing. Yeah, because I as you're saying, because in 28 days later, those aren't zombies, it's a different thing. This is specifically that thing.

SPEAKER_01 42:42

Capital Z zombies. But they have the sprint, but they have the sprint button.

unknown 42:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:48

And it doesn't, the meter does not run out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:51

Uh these are a deck of Cinephile cards. If you want to kill me, you have to get these cards away from me. I'm gonna get them. That's spooky. I'm gonna get them.

SPEAKER_01 43:02

Ben, I know where you live. I don't need the cards to kill you.

SPEAKER_03 43:06

Great.

SPEAKER_01 43:07

Just put that off the back of your mind.

SPEAKER_04 43:09

Ben, how comfortable do you feel right now?

SPEAKER_03 43:12

A lot of people know where I live, actually. I feel like everyone who listens to this has probably figured it out.

SPEAKER_04 43:17

No, but just like between me and Stimson both clearly are like, we're gonna know.

SPEAKER_03 43:23

Paul looks like he's gonna shoot up a post office, and Stimson looks like an evil genius.

SPEAKER_01 43:28

So they simulate media male. I do not look like an evil genius. What a ridiculous thing to say.

SPEAKER_04 43:34

Now you did just take control of the economy of Idaho as you are pouring that red wine. Is that true?

SPEAKER_01 43:42

We're celebrating this is with a piece of preemptive.

unknown 43:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 43:46

Uh on these cards, Stimson, are a human face, an actor's face, and their name and a movie. I will flip the deck and you tell me when to stop. I will then show the card to the camera. You just read what's on the card, just say the actor's name in the movie, and then Paul will have to name a movie that actors in. I will have to name a movie that actors in, and then we'll just go around until one of us messes up.

SPEAKER_01 44:09

And so it's it's it's Kevin Bacon, but we're rotating the Kevin Bacon.

SPEAKER_03 44:13

Yeah, basically. And no Kevin Bacon. Unless you pull Kevin Bacon, which to me that would be spooky.

SPEAKER_01 44:19

Yeah. So I really want to pull Kevin Bacon now. Right.

SPEAKER_03 44:23

Here we go. Tell me when to step.

SPEAKER_04 44:25

Not if I pull Kevin Bacon first. I'm gonna pull Kevin Bacon so good.

SPEAKER_01 44:29

You can't. You've already got a 500 restraining order from him.

SPEAKER_03 44:32

You pull yourself while watching Kevin Bacon. I need to take away my blurred background. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 44:37

It's my bacon. I can do what I want.

SPEAKER_03 44:40

Stop pulling your bacon, Paul. Alright, here we go.

SPEAKER_01 44:44

Alright, am I allowed to say it out loud?

SPEAKER_03 44:46

Yep, go for it.

SPEAKER_01 44:47

Wait, which part do I say? Just the movie?

SPEAKER_03 44:49

You name the actor and the movie.

SPEAKER_01 44:51

Okay, both. Alright. Marlon Brando, one-I Jacks.

SPEAKER_02 44:57

The godfather, the godfather. Apocalypse now.

SPEAKER_04 45:02

On the waterfront. The godfather part two.

SPEAKER_03 45:07

My question is, does he show up in this? And I think I'm gonna be wrong. Godfather part three? I don't believe he does.

SPEAKER_04 45:14

I'm not gonna challenge if Simpson wants to challenge. Streetcar name desire. Don Juan DeMarco.

SPEAKER_03 45:23

I need to now look it up. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 45:26

I'm probably wrong here, but I'm just gonna try at least one wine advertisement.

SPEAKER_03 45:34

I guess while I'm waiting, I'll say the island of Dr. Moreau. Uh let's see, is he in this?

SPEAKER_04 45:39

Bought yourself some time there, didn't you?

SPEAKER_03 45:41

I did, but I also can confirm he is not in Godfather Part 3. So I was I was wrong.

unknown 45:48

Okay.

Cinephile Round

SPEAKER_01 45:49

Now was I wrong that he was in a wine commercial at some point? Because then Paul's the winner.

SPEAKER_03 45:53

That's not going to be on IMDb, I don't think.

SPEAKER_02 45:57

I want to tell you that Donegie Estates is the finest wine available for me. No Olson Wales.

SPEAKER_03 46:04

This is brought to you by 500 feet back wine. 500 feet back. Wait, didn't we do a wine commercial for the last episode that Stimson?

SPEAKER_02 46:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:12

I think Skyline wine.

SPEAKER_01 46:16

500 stomping. I'm gonna take the feet. I'm gonna take the you guys have found your calling.

SPEAKER_03 46:21

And I think it's appropriate that I take the L because it is my choice for this movie. And I did bring it to the program and I did invite specifically Stimson. Um you don't have to justify it, man.

SPEAKER_04 46:31

You lost.

First & Current Experiences

SPEAKER_03 46:32

So yeah, I lost. Uh, but so the reason I brought this movie, again, it's been on my my uh letterbox list. I also found it fascinating that it's a Snyder gun picture vehicle. And also I have not seen it in a long time. I saw it in the theater with Stimson. I did buy it again from half-price books on Capitol Hill for$4.99. And I've I think I haven't watched it since college. I remember really enjoying it. I remember thinking that it like before I've recently watched it, put myself back. I remember thinking that it really did a nice job with sort of putting people together, characters together, and putting them in a pressure cooker and in a situation that's uh uh uh apocalyptic and seeing like seeing like a true colors come out. And these are movies I enjoy. Uh I like Twilight Zone episodes like that, I like the mist. I like these things that kind of like shove people together and see what happens. I remember thinking that I've and I think I've said this before to other people who are big Snyder fans, I'm thinking this is probably my favorite Snyder and also the least Snyder-ish of his movies. And I think I used to think that the script, gun script, was pretty strong. Um, so I probably used to give it four, four out of five. I watched this movie this morning, and it looked like shit. I think that's mostly just because I watched it on DVD.

SPEAKER_04 47:51

And Sir, that is upscaled 720i.

SPEAKER_03 47:57

On my OLED uh really really awful.

SPEAKER_04 48:02

I think there's your great great grandfather's friend's uncle died to bring us 720i.

SPEAKER_03 48:10

I don't think that's true, Paul. I'm gonna take it to our legal team, pretty sure it's not true. Um but I think there's so okay. We did Sean and the Dead last spooky season, right? And I think there's a a thing with zombie movies, and less so now, I think, but there's a thing with zombie movies where they feel like they have to explain what zombies are. And like we as an audience we're like way ahead of you, buddy.

SPEAKER_01 48:35

Uh the literal log line flesh eating zombies, right?

SPEAKER_03 48:39

Yeah, it's like we know what zombies are. And I think the thing that uh disappointed me in this viewing was that I thought I remembered it being more character-driven, and I thought I remember it being having more meat to seeing these characters come together and develop. And what I took away this viewing was that I didn't I felt like that was actually not very developed. I felt like it was actually quite underdeveloped, and that they're sort of like archetypes, spicy, but not necessarily like much more than that. Um, and it really kind of hit me right off the bat when um her daughter and her husband die, and she's just driving away. And like she's like just like, what is happening? And then and then we get like this semi, is she attracted to this dude at the mall? Like that helps her. I'm like, I'm like, what is that story? You just lost everyone you know. And I know we get a glimpse of her like crying by herself, but that's like the extent of that. And so I think that like there are uh great ideas in this movie, there are some cool visuals in this movie. I really like the makeup and the practical stuff, and some really great little action set pieces. And uh ultimately I'm sitting at three zombie babies, three zombie babies uh went down a point, and I'm you know, I could go either way, but that's where I'm at. I'm at three zombie babies. Okay, Ben. Okay. Was that too much?

SPEAKER_01 50:14

No, that was good. That was good. Shall I dive in or Paul? Who would you?

SPEAKER_03 50:18

I think it's you, Stimson.

SPEAKER_01 50:20

I feel like I did the mirror opposite of Ben's experience with this film. So I have seen this film exactly twice. Once the other day, preparing for this podcast, and once with Ben in high school, right after watching Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. And I remember vividly that I hated this film, and I was coming at it with all of the confidence and wisdom of a high school senior who loves movies and is therefore convinced he understands every aspect of the art form. Watching it now, I think it's a much better movie than I ever gave it credit for. But most of what I most of the good I want to say about it is sort of balanced against the lack of bad the lack of anything to really deeply praise. This to me is a perfectly fine zombie film. It is a good zombie film. Watching it today, I give it four out of five dead babies. But because it is a perfectly good zombie film that's well acted, looks great, but there's very little to say about it. Where I look at it now is when you compare to the Romero version and all the insight and the satire and the sense of humor in that film, most of that outside of a few elements is gone from this, which is very interesting. And so everything I find interesting about this film has less to do with the film itself and more looking at it as a comparison to the greater body of work from two unambiguous megastar filmmakers. And seeing that seed there on its own terms, it's a really solid zombie movie. For every scene that's terrible, there's a scene that's awesome. The scene of the girl going after the dog is really stupid from a writing level, and that should and James Gunn should never have included that scene. But the whole scene with the father with the pregnant wife and then the zombified baby, that is a great little 10-minute horror movie vignette, completely independent of the rest of the film. That is just genuinely great. The opening sequence, the panic, the strain of it, the coolness factor when she walks out the door and they throw, and you mentioned this earlier on, Ben, but this is a film that puts its money on the screen. But the interesting thing about it is it's not doing the later Zack Snyder super slow-mo, look how crisp a shot is. The first five minutes of the film look boring and very low budget, and it's saving that reveal of when she walks out the front door and you're seeing helicopters crashing, you're seeing all these extras and the sheer amount of chaos, and have this moment of, oh, this is zombie movie, but with a not fucking around budget.

SPEAKER_00 53:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:08

And it's a film that I enjoy. And the other things where it's fun isn't just in the Zack Snyderisms, but the James Gunnisms. Uh, Tyberell's character feels like a prototype of a dozen other James Gunn characters that we were gonna see once James Gunn was gonna be allowed to start directing. So Tyberell's great too. Oh, yeah. Well, the thing, the reason I feel like he's a prototype is he's objectively right about everything. He's just an asshole. But at this time in filming, and you weren't really allowed to make the asshole heroic, whereas later on, that's a whole thing onto itself. James Gunn loves having heroic assholes who are sometimes right. Hyberell's character is someone I think James Gunn would have written as the hero ten years later.

SPEAKER_04 53:51

Dicks also fuck assholes, Chuck. Like, that's how I like this is this guy's a necessary kind of character.

SPEAKER_03 53:59

It's like the dude says, You're not wrong, Walter. You're just an asshole. Correct. It's four. You're four. We we both have I have a zombie baby, you have a dead baby, we all have babies.

SPEAKER_01 54:11

Well, I stand by it's not mutually exclusive. A zombie baby is also a dead baby. Dead is babies are not infected by zombies.

SPEAKER_04 54:20

I think it is apropos that we all have gone with this rating system at this point. I'm just gonna reveal that now. We all chose zombie's, and when I very first saw this movie, it was a group of other dipshits, and liked it pretty well, had a pretty good time, like definitely jumped a couple times. There's some really great visual things in this movie that carry over, I think, not only from the Michael Bayes and some of the Paul Verhoeven's and John Wu's and Suey Harks and and all sorts of various places in the world, and people with different views and what have you. Stimson was talking about the first few minutes of this movie. Like, I'm like, ooh, this has a really like kind of internationally movie-type feel, like kind of some sort of uh very approachable. We were talking about the tone of sneakers, like there's this weird warmth to it and realism to it that I I guess I don't know why it feels weird, partly because all the fucking filters on this movie. But I originally rated this like three and a half zombie babies, like a perfectly good, if not above average, really rewatchable movie. This in terms of the genre, what has been better executed than this? And I kind of stopped myself in terms of just thinking of the genre and thinking of things like Stimson. I think you were saying this too. I was thinking of the original Dawn of the Dead and kind of the satire and the the biting like cultural commentary and so many things that exist in that movie.

SPEAKER_01 56:04

Don't beautiful word choice, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 56:06

It doesn't carry over, it's not there in this movie. And Ben, you talked about archetypes. There are all these archetypes. A couple of them have these moments. It's like when Sarah Paulie starts to cry, she can't finish that moment. Is that a piece of commentary about like there's no time to cry? Like, we gotta keep fucking moving, like whatever. Sure, Jake Weber has some stuff about being a dad and a husband and not being able to find it. Like they they have these moments that feel kind of I guess unfinished, and I walk away from this viewing last night, I guess just because I feel like 28 days later for me is aged like a fine wine, maybe 500 years old exactly, and this movie. I think partly because Ben, I don't think it's just because it was 720i. This movie, I just don't love the way that it looks, and I like most of the performances, if not all of them. I think they're good to great at times, but it's all just like okay, you have a moment or you have a line here. Like it it's great that CJ has, I think, this really good character arc, what happened to the romantic thing that was clearly happening, or in somebody's head about Jake Weber and Sarah Polly that got dropped that just felt really confusing. And also, Stimson, I'm super with you about the dog thing. This is a thing that I feel is very common with James Gunn. Please, I don't want this stuff with these animals like to be part of the equation. It's not necessary for me, just use the people. And all that said, all that said, Zach Snyder is a genius, everything he's ever done is amazing. It's diamond, it's priceless, it's incredible. Uh James Gunn and he only make each other better at every turn. They're the best. Nobody can hang with their nuts. But I give this uh as a complete dipshit and a moron who shouldn't be giving you this free podcast with these great guests and this wonderful co-host, uh, because I'm not worthy to even watch this movie. I give it a three out of five zombabies.

SPEAKER_01 58:13

Makes sense. I will defend, by the way, the visuals of this film because this was something where I what did not like it at the time. Like I said, and I truly hated this when I saw it with Ben. And this was like minutes after watching Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind for the first time. Yeah, this is deep in that grindhouse roots. Like this to me, what I was sort of feeling like watching this is that it's trying to be the biggest budget version of a grindhouse movie. Uh,$22 million at the time was a lot of money to make a movie like this. And they didn't do it on like sweeping camera shots, stuff like that, or any of the stuff that Snyder would spend a lot of the rest of his career focused on. It's rooted in this visual style that's still in use. And one of the things I was kind of noticing was the color. There was this blown-out white filter on a lot of the stuff that was showing up in every other movie at the time. And it sucked then, it sucks now. But if you put that out of your mind and focus on the foreground, the level of color saturation and color palette, you can absolutely see Snyder leaning into the stuff that he wanted to do, but without the filters. Snyder likes that ultra crisp image, but he also loves a huge amount of color.

SPEAKER_04 59:30

There's there's a level of like the whole world is dirty, like that comes across like as a result of the filter. But I I agree with what you're saying, where it's just like at times it's just like unbearable. It happened too much and it still happens sometimes, and that's unfortunate.

SPEAKER_05 59:45

We know a feature presentation skull x ray.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:00

Hospital, classic hospital hospital? Hopefully. Classic hospital. Classic hospital.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:07

Dr. Nick Riviera.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:09

I mean, you know, classic beginning of a zombie movie. There's bites. You know, I just keep thinking of Sean of the Dead every time I see a zombie movie now, just because Sean of the Dead makes me giggle. Because it's so much better. Pulls apart every trope from a zombie movie.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:23

Literally pulls them apart.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:26

Yeah, you know, we we basically get a hospital, there's people, uh, someone got bit and they're not feeling well. They had to have a brain scan, and like, why do you have to have a brain scan? I don't know. I've been working too long. Send me home.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:37

Uh say hi to your mother for me. What?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:39

I I need to defend this person.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:43

This part of the movie, this is the part where Zack Snyder shambled so that so that Sean of the Dead could run. We would not have those great, brilliant opening jokes from Shawn of the Dead, where there's the background of the zombie plague that nobody's paying attention to, hence the humor. If it wasn't films like this that are taking it perfectly seriously, it's true. This is the DNA that gets to be later satirized. I am grateful this scene exists because without it, we wouldn't have some of the best stuff in Shawn of the Dead.

Start the Movie (discussion)

SPEAKER_04 1:01:17

I think the popularity of this movie definitely helped open the door for Sean of the Dead. Yeah, I do think some of the comedy in terms of Sean of the Dead comes from this movie, and those guys, Edgar Wright and Simon Pegg and Nick Frost, are probably pretty entrenched in the genre. And that movie's such a beautiful celebration of the genre in general. I I like this opening too. I get little touches of like Wes Craven at times from him, where yeah, they're just like some of these shots where I get this idea of like power dynamics where people are at, the things that people are talking about, people that should be in positions of authority and paying attention to what's going on are just like not. They're not concerned about it. Parents in Nightmare on Elm Street, for instance, are like, We're I'm not gonna listen to you. And this happens a good amount in the first part of this movie, up to and including where I love this shot on the back of the car that happens here shortly, but where they go into the house, or she goes into the house and sees her husband after she's greeted this neighborhood girl, and they are talking about their day and everything, and it's very nice and feels very believable. This is some of the acting that I like in the movie, is nobody's on the doing too much countdown. It all feels a little like under, and I don't know if that's good or bad in the end for everybody, but it it lulls you into a level of comfort in the first part of this of the movie, I think. Here, and like they're even like having sex in the shower as the news is like, by the way, the world's starting to fall apart.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:52

Yeah, I wouldn't say I feel comfortable during all of it. The characters are comfortable. I feel like the film is going out of its way to say, pay attention to what's happening over there, pay attention to what's happening over there. Right, yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:04

It's about to go down.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:05

It does, it wants us as an audience to pay attention.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:08

Like it does have this voyeuristic kind of feel to it to me.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:11

Although it does have one of the first bits in the film that I find unintentionally hilarious. Ben, you were talking about the death of her daughter and husband. That's not her daughter, that's a neighborhood girl. And this bugged me 20 years ago, and it bugs me now. Why are they both so calm when a child who is not theirs is wandering into their bedroom before they figure out that it's the girl is a zombie. Just if a child wandered into my bedroom in the middle of the night, I would have a lot of concerns, not the least of which being, am I in danger of legal issues?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:45

Just 500 feet. 500 feet distance.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:48

There's just so many things about this moment before you know she's a zombie that I find deeply uncomfortable. You know, you can't watch her sleep anymore.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:59

You're not, you're not allowed to watch us sleep anymore. 500 feet.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:02

I I think I do think it's funny. Like the first thing when she the woman or the girl takes like this giant bite out of her husband, the throw that she sends that child down the fucking hallway. I mean, that's the one thing I like to do.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:16

I remember her little pop-up.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:17

Yeah, the one thing I liked about this. Actually, I liked a lot about this movie, but something I do like about this movie is how fucking metal it goes so fucking fast. Like, we don't sit in the buildup for very long. I do appreciate kind of like Sean of the Dead 2 and other horror movies, that she is, you know, she's a subservient to something in her life. She is below, she's a nurse, she's having to answer to this dickhead doctor who won't let her go after she's an hour past her shift. There's all these things where she is like she has always not had complete control of her life. And like we get that in such a brief glimpse in this opening, which is nice. And then the one thing that gives her comfort is like her his neck is fucking ripped out. And then we go outside and it's fucking chaos, which I do like how metal it is, like right off the bat.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:02

We've been joking a lot so far on this podcast about praising or criticizing Snyder. I want to make some non-joke, actual just statements of my opinions.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:10

Be careful though.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:11

Snyder, regardless of whether or not he is doing a great movie or a terrible movie, he is never afraid to go metal. I think in real life, this is just a fundamentally likable person who everybody who has ever talked about has talked about how great he is to work with. So in a 30-year career, there's not a negative word said against him. And he always likes to just go as hard and ridiculous as he can. Anytime he is given the option to, he always will.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:40

Like I think that's in the paint.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:43

But I think that comes from a very sincere place with Snyder. Like, I think that is just very much he's not trying to be a poser. That is just his thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:51

I think that's true. I would say that I think it works better when he has guardrails.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:57

With again, this isn't a comment of whether or not it's good filmmaking. Sure, sure, sure. It is a thing he reliably does, and it comes from a very sincere place.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:04

I agree with that. I I think from a technical point of view, I think it's hard to question that he is absolutely fantastic in terms of technical filmmaking and the execution and and and these sorts of things he's doing. And capturing his vision. And when he goes, when she goes outside, as you guys are saying, he leans into the fact the shit has hit the fan. This guy gets hit by the ambulance, like kids are getting killed. It it shit is going down. And I I agree there's a level of when there are guardrails, when there are people that he has to be accountable to, that's one of the things I'm thinking in this movie. I we're all kind of thinking the same thing. Oh, yeah, this guy does go really fucking hard in the paint, and it's really working in this movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:50

Well, and again, Snyder is not simply as a technical person, he is one of the best visual filmmakers of his entire generation, to the point that it actually hurts his films because he can't resist making something look gorgeous, even when the gorgeousness actually undermines the themes that he wants to do. But uh, he does not know how to hold himself back, but that's not to say his visuals aren't absolutely mind-blowing.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:15

The shot the shot composition is fantastic, unquestionable. But there is a level of like, I don't need to necessarily see this in slow motion or have this happen this way, so it has this big visual impact on me or whatever. It can be distracting.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:33

I gotta ask, did you two do this? Because we both, all three of us, when we went back to watch this, have his entire career to think about did anybody else count the slow-mo shots on his first feature?

SPEAKER_04 1:07:43

I did not. I did not.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:45

It is it is like it is less than 10. Five of them are all in the last 10 minutes of the movie in the climax, and there is not a single speed ramp in there, and they're usually extreme close-ups of props and inserts where he's conveying a detail.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:01

So I would have thought there was closer to that that is interesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:06

No, less than 10 and five are in the last 15 to 20 minutes. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:11

Which I appreciate. I I think the slow-mo a lot of times it's just like, oh man, can we not?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:17

Well, the the interesting thing about it, just going to the whole again. I I don't want to, I feel like I'm going to have to be the Snyder defender of the three of us, even though I share a lot of the criticisms. But I feel like I'm just I think about that as my role for this dialogue. As much as speed ramping gets overused now, it's worth remembering that prior to 300, the only people who had really evolved it was the Matrix movies. Snyder, what he came up with for 300 and how he later used it, he legitimately has evolved the language of cinema to the point that other filmmakers cannot resist using it. And while there's 50 million dumb uses of it, usually from Snyder, there is a lot of other brilliant uses of it from other filmmakers. And he basically created this technique and style of doing that. That is something only a handful of directors in history can lay claim to, evolving the language.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:10

I I like that what you're saying in terms of the yes anding and what have you. I'm not against the fact that I think clearly this filmmaker likes Robert Rodriguez and John Wu. And the Wachowskis. Yeah, John Wu's a big one.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:25

Like Scaliber, I think, is the film he always cites as the one. Like if you go back and watch it.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:31

Excalibur John Borman.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:33

Yeah. Yeah. Great filmmaker.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:35

There I feel more influence at Soderbergh, even that like are in this person's work than I've felt. Like you're saying, like there are 50 million dumb fucking things that have come from the way that this person has evolved things, and there are only a handful of things that are probably, you know, really great that have not come from him or come from him or what have you. I don't I don't know if these shining beacons outweigh like the absolute garbage dump of movies that try to emulate a lot of his style.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:08

Uh we should keep with this train moving or the car moving as she's driving and crashes, and we get this really cool intro with the Johnny Gash, Johnny Cash song to see like the world fall apart, which I think is just a great montage, great needle drop.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:23

And also, it absolutely feels like the prototype to the uh Bob Dylan song at the beginning of Watchmen. Yeah, which is arguably the best scene of Watchmen, by the way, is that montage. I know I'm with you 100%.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:36

For me, and I don't want to get bogged down on this conversation too much, but for me, I feel like for context, Watchmen is my favorite graphic novel of all time, and the movie really misses the mark in a lot of ways for me. Uh, visually, looks great. Some of the frames are like directly from the comic, but I feel like that is the movie that sort of fundamentally changed his philosophy around superheroes. It's one of the reasons I don't really care for his DC stuff, is because I feel like that philosophy about superheroes and being sort of like the darkness that came with Watchmen seeped into all of the stuff that he made past that point.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:13

I would agree absolutely. I would say that Snyder clearly loves Watchmen so much that it influenced everything else he did. He's never gotten out of that mindset. And actually, going back to what I was mentioning a minute ago about the idea of how his visuals undermine the themes. Watchmen is a perfect example. With one or two minor exceptions, and depending on who you talk to, one major exception, it is as close to a direct translation of the book you can get in terms of the dialogue and the text and the plot. What undermines the themes is that a story that should be about showing how sad and pathetic these characters are cannot resist making them look absolutely epic and spectacular all the time. I think Watchman is a perfect example of where his visual sensibility undermines the themes. Because from a script standpoint, it's a almost psychotically faithful adaptation.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:06

Until the end.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:07

Which I get the logic of why he did it, and I get why some people don't like it. I don't find that change that controversial simply because it's a different movie that we could talk about another day. But I feel like the heart was in the right place of that particular adaptation change. Even if you don't like it, I feel like the intent to do right by the fan base was there.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:28

Good intentions don't make the world go round. So Ving shows up with the shoddy. And they gotta get Ving with a shoddy. We're going to the mall. They meet up with Mackay Pfeiffer and his wife who's pregnant, and they're like, hey, Fort Pastor or whatever, that shit's fucked. It's thick with those things, I think they're calling them at this point. After this standoff that they have for a little bit, they decide they're gonna go to the mall. And when they go into the mall, the fact that it's playing don't worry, be happy. Like, I like funny, like the that little subtle like quote unquote needle drop that's there.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:01

First off, Simpson, do you remember Crossroads Mall in Bellevue?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:05

Oh baby. It feels very similar.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:09

Yeah, I was like, is there a crossroads mall in like every city in the United States of America?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:14

Definitely in Ontario, Canada, where this was made. I think we're just required to call that with most malls having crossroads.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:22

And then also, what was the video game that came out about the guy fighting zombies in the mall? I mean, is that directly Dead Rising?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:30

Which the Tyberell character even looks like the guy in that video game.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:34

Yeah, I was like, did they just were like, oh, let's just make that into a video game.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:38

Yeah. I have a question. I have a question. Is there exploring the mall? Jake Weber goes into like the sports store, yeah, and he's got a crowbar. And he's like, you know what? I'm really good at croquet. I'm gonna grab this mallet. Would you trade a fucking crowbar for a mallet? No, not what is that?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:58

I spent a ridiculous amount of time the other night debating with myself about this because I hate the logic. The croquet mallet is solid wood and it has a longer reach. And the disadvantage to a crowbar is it's a hook shape. So if you hit one zombie and the zombie recoils, you have been disarmed. On the other hand, it's a croquet mallet versus a crowbar.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:24

As we're on this subject, and you know, they're fighting these new zombies that have shown up. Yeah, I really want to know what is your favorite, what is your go-to dual weapon situation for a zombie apocalypse? You get two.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:35

Oh uh, I am going to go straight for I'm going to go straight from uh the zombie apocalypse book, the uh World War Z, the book. I use a bladed shovel. Long reach, heavy impact, the edges of the shovel, sawed into uh sanded down into a blade, so it's functional, it's a stabbing tool, but it also works as a spear to keep him at a distance, has a lot of weight for impact, and because it's circular shaped, unlike an axe or a crowbar, will not get lodged in a target.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:07

I'm with this guy's shovel.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:08

Just a single weapon? Single weapon for you?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:12

Well, no, I thought by dual weapon you meant a weapon I could use two ways. Oh, so I guess you're gonna be able to do that. I mean I'm with you.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:17

I'm with you. I mean, like, let's be honest, if I had that, I'd also still have my other weapon on me.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:22

I misunderstood the brief. I thought I only got one weapon that I use in two ways.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:25

Either way, either way.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:26

Uh for a gun, why would I snipe a zombie? I want a shotgun with a wide spread. You don't need a slug to blow up the brain. A decently sized deer pellet will do the trick. And I do not want to be relying on my aim.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:44

I just want one of those classic American weapons that just take out a bunch of people at once, like one of those guns, and then a samurai sword that's sharpened like to a T with an acid etch.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:55

Those are my two things. The blade sword. I want the blade I want the blade sword and the moonraker laser and like a or the the golden eye laser watch. Oh yeah. Oh, that's what I want.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:05

I'm gonna push back on sword. Everybody always likes swords with zombies. Swords make sense against things with jugulars. Zombies don't die unless you crack through the skull. A sword does not have as much weight as a hammer or a club, and you would have to put a pretty significant amount of force in a perfectly aimed blow to penetrate skull.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:27

Ben.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:27

Unless you're just taking the head clean off. I'm just saying, so you want the shovel thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:35

I'm gonna go this way. You guys can go that way. Just say you want the shovel thing. I'm gonna have my sword and and my gun 500 feet away. They go up the elevator and they encounter these security guards who are on a power trip, because security guards always are, because they you know it's that it's job is the job is garbage. So they're uh best characters in the movie, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:53

CJ, best character. CJ is so good.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:55

Absolutely, but he's a real dick, and he was like, I don't trust you, give us your guns, and we're gonna put you in like mall prison or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:03

Yeah, like mall jail, as as we're seeing on TV, the world's in chaos, and we get like the Tom Savini pop in as the sheriff or whatnot, with like the long hair and everything. That guy's badass, dude. I fucking love Tom Savini.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:18

This is where though I found myself comparing it to the original Dawn of the Dead and where it's fails. Yeah, it never does anything with the satire opportunities. I imagine if you made just a straight up remake of Dawn of the Dead right now with the current political situation we're in, I feel like any filmmaker who's half awake would just have a field day with social commentary. And it's very weird to me not seeing it here.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:43

I was thinking that too, like 20 days later, a lot of especially currently, like your zombie movies tend to have a deep commentary, and this one just doesn't really have it. It's kind of like how I felt about weapons, which I loved weapons, but it was like there's not a lot, it's not like comment, it's just like watching.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:59

There's so many continuity, yeah. It's just fun.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:01

It's just watch this, it's fun.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:03

And that's I think that's more so what this is, because the genre, the original, you know, Knight of the Living Dead, and moving forward for the most part, is built on a level of social commentary almost entirely in almost everything you watch. And it's weird that this movie seems to just kind of mostly go off of so it's very suggestive, like, hey, security guards, right? Hey, everybody uh they'll uh they all they'll all go to the mall, right? Hey, people stop treating uh you know the zombies like they were people at some point, right? Like and it's everything just feels like kind of a nudge. Like the the Ben Cosine thing, like where they kill the the security guard that was disabled when Ving Rheims got hurt and whatever. They go, Yeah, check him out, and they shoot him, and it's just again where it's like a level of like I just don't have to feel that it never says anything about it.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:59

Right. I do like oh go ahead, Simpson.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:02

I was gonna say, what do we get from this other than that CJ is kind of an asshole?

SPEAKER_03 1:19:06

A necessary asshole, a power tripping asshole when they go to the roof and that truck is coming in and I Jake Weber's idea. I do like this outside force that's invading this new because of course it's gonna happen, right? Yeah, and I like that like shoving them into that choice. Are we going to be people who help others, or are we going to close up and at fear for our own lives, are we just gonna like lock it down? Which I think that is a classic zombie conversation, like zombie movie slash TV show, Walking Dead conversation thing that is like always happening.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:44

Who will lead us? Who will be the the beacon of where I used before?

SPEAKER_03 1:19:48

Because like the whole thing in Walking Dead was like, do we help or do we isolate? And I think if that that that is like a common theme that is resonant with our current political climate, or nothing bad happened, it can always be happening. And they have it for a second, and then it we're just gonna help them.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:06

We're gonna there's never any consequence to it. Like you imagine that CJ is going to become the villain or something like that. After he gets deposed, he's got like one other scene later on of being kind of grumpy about it, and then he's just fully part of the gang.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:20

His turnaround, his turnaround is just it's interesting that they have the communication with Andy, and that's kind of established. And I like when they're going to bed and it does like the last of the remnants of TV and the No More Room in Hell. And again, I'm finding myself, and I know I get distracted by this a lot, but it's like there's this they live or Prince of Darkness, like John Carpenter thing, which are movies with biting social commentary. And I think this movie it again, it everything feels just like half cocked. That's why I'm at the three. It's like, yeah, it's better than average, but there are so many things that I think of that I'm like, oh, I want to watch that.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:58

This to me is why I don't put it at a uh a five out of five, but it's only because of the lack of social commentary. I think on every other level, as just a really fun zombie movie to sit through, it works. The acting is good, the squad is fun. There's several laugh out loud, funny moments. There's really good little horror vignettes. What keeps it down at four for me is that it never takes that extra step to become something meaningful. It is really good entertainment. But that's it.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:28

I think this is the point where it tries to do that, where Ving and Makai Pfeiffer get in the conversation in the bathroom, and the way that that kind of pays off. That's the one character through line or whatever that I'm mostly like, okay, is is Andre. Because I agree with the CJ thing. Like it does feel like kind of like a whoa. But they do the thing in the bathroom, and the the payoff in the end with Andre, I think, kind of, but maybe that's the only one. But the the new arrivals are there, and CJ is starting to fucking lose it and says the thing. Like, we're gonna let the wrong person in, and I'm gonna fucking die, and I don't want to do it.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:05

You know, that is inevitable in in every zombie movie, which is I think part of what is or a show, you know, like with Last of Us or Walking Dead, like one of the cool things that what zombie genres do is it immediately makes you suspicious of your friends, of your peers, of anyone else. Nothing better that is happening. That that is something that I think is done pretty well in this movie. It may be done well better in other versions, but I do like that you know, we get these new people in, and this woman in the wheelbarrow, she is like she looks dead right away. Oh yeah. I was like, what are we doing? Like they're wheeling her in and like just staring at her, I'd be like, uh, I'm just gonna wheel this right outside. But they don't know yet, they don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:50

At least keep that 500 feet away from the building. Then they're it looks like Henrietta from Evil Dead. It is fucking disgusting.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:58

And this is one of the things, it's such a struggle for zombie movies, and they don't have to do this anymore, but that you know, they don't know yet that it's like they're getting bit and creating these zombies and we have to get there, which is like we're all like we we're on that page already, so it that is like it's no fault for the movie just because it came out at a time where it's like it's not I don't know, I don't know. No smartphones.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:20

I don't think the movie thinks that it's surprising us. I think that even back then it assumes the audience knows how zombies work. That when they're bringing in the lady, we already know where this is going. And what they're trying to set up is the oh this lady's gonna go zombie nuts.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:41

Yeah, when when is it gonna happen? There are all these like that's I think it does ticking cat bombs where the wife has a bite, like Matt Frewer has a bite, Max Headroom has a bite, sorry, and Henrietta has a bite. It's all when is it gonna happen? And and her putting it together here, and the movie, I think, more so than finishing things off, more does a like, yeah, but here's Poochie, like Tyberell comes in and like the dynamic changes. Oh, the name of the dog. Yeah, I mean, but also here's Poochie.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:12

I was about to sorry, is Tyborell Poochie? What is his name in the movie again? What's the dick's name? I mean, there's a couple of dicks in here. No one remembers the character's name, but Ty Burrell.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:23

Tyberell.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:24

So this is a thing they could have made something out of, getting back in the whole philosophy. If they hadn't have saved the truck, then they never would have had access to Tyborell's boat.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:33

Right, sure. And but that's the thing, is this feels like again, like a thing that's just like dropped in there to keep the story going or keep the story entertaining or like interesting. I do like there is a payoff that does happen where she's like, he's like, if I turn in one of those things, fucking shoot me, and she's like, We'll do.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:51

Oh, you're saying that the character doesn't feel like it progresses, the story. You're feeling like it's just a I mean, I think that though she does shoot him.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:59

I guess there is a progression for her as a result of it to a degree.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:02

Well, I like Ty Burrell's voice in the script. I like having one character who isn't on a power trip like CJ. He's just the unjust having the unbelievable hedonist.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:13

And a privileged he is on a power trip in a different way where he's like, I don't work, I'm the fucking captain.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:20

And he just he likes to fuck. This is fucking too hard.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:23

I can't fault his for choosing the way he chooses to spend his last days.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:27

He he rocks it out with his cock out, literally. But Andy shares like he likes filming himself for some reason. Yeah, there's no help coming. We're basically fucked, and the old lady and uh Sarah Polly are like tending to all the survivors.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:45

Yeah, and they and this is when they put together that oh, the bites create the zombies, yeah, and then and she does it, Sarah Pauly does it, and then they're like, Oh, if that's true, we gotta go shoot that dude.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:58

Frank's gotta die.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:59

And then isn't he the neighbor from Honey? I'm so sorry. I think I might have accidentally potentially microsized, microsized our micronaut, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:11

Magic school bus. Isn't he the neighbor? I think you're right.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:14

But the interesting thing about that though, I think this is actually one of the scenes of the film that does get well into character development. I like the weird, sure. I like the weird, like we all we all see this thing on the internet all the time with the people who talk tough until they're faced with the real problem. Oh I like the speed and quickness with which the ways the characters go, oh, we gotta go kill them. We gotta go kill him. It's the logical thing to do. And then the moment they're actually faced with the task, it's just like, oh no, shit, this is this is an awful, awful thing. I can't do that.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:43

And I like the Sarah Poly challenge here, too. Great, do it, do it.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:47

The poor daughter who is lost everybody, apparently, but then she doesn't getting ahead of myself here, but then we see her having like this spring flirtation with the other security guard, and I'm like, wait a minute, you just lost everybody you know. What are we doing?

SPEAKER_01 1:27:03

I'll say that doesn't bother me because people do weird things in desperate situations, you cling to whatever you can find.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:10

The fake crying doesn't work for me. I also miss someone pointed out there's gotta be some point where just I know you're a nurse and you see scary things and whatever, but like the trauma of this has I want to see them that moment happen, and the only person that has that moment is Andre in the end, where there's this a level of emotional like ugliness and vulnerability that nobody else really has. But I also like there's a huge chunk of the movie where Andre's like, gotta go.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:39

Oh, yeah, they're just all the time. His that his wife, right? Is that the pregnant pregnant wife? And they're just like, So did we see her get bit or Ben Cosine?

SPEAKER_01 1:27:51

The uh security guard who gets disabled fighting Vigrames, he gets a nick out of her, and it's just a scratch. It's like you're lucky, he could have bitten your arm off.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:04

I do like that. This movie it does seem like there's a difference in progression based on the severity of the bite. Like, husband gets bitten early in the movie, dies, reanimates, whatever. Other like the if it's a Nick, the time it takes for them to transform is different based on how badly they're injured.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:23

Well, they're based on when they die. So the interesting thing is this is because it is adapted from the Romero one, there are specific rules they actually had to cling to. They are dead. You do not become a zombie until you die. So, how long it takes to become a zombie is simply how long your body was able to hold out, fight the infection.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:42

Like in the case of her husband, he died instantly because his jugular got right, right.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:48

I I do I like how clear it is in the movie, though, because not every movie, these rules are a little murky sometimes in some of these movies, and I like that this movie makes that very clear.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:58

I feel like a lot of the movies these days can't make up their mind whether or not are we dealing with a fantastical element like uh the original Night of the Living Dead, or are we coming up with a pseudo-scientific explanation like 28 Days Later or Walking Dead?

SPEAKER_03 1:29:14

Yeah, yeah. Last of Us is, you know, it goes into the fungal stuff.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:18

Which is cool, which is cool and like very deep into whatever. And yeah, it does it, it's exploring its own thing. It has really like chess. I love chess and strategy. The fact that they're like, we need a new game, like they play chess for a while.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:32

So we get that montage. I I'm not quite sure how many days are passing. We get this montage of them living living in the mall and like him playing chess with Andy across the zombie seed there. And I like this idea.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:50

Which I think is purposeful.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:51

I think that's brilliant though, because I do think that's one of the things I do think is kind of brilliant. They have all this ammo and they cannot get to it.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:59

Yeah. Yeah. I don't remember if this was in the original Dawn of the Dead, uh, but I like the idea that in this version, zombies just go to do things that they did at when they were alive.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:10

Yeah, and that has actually always been a theme in the Romero version. Like uh even in Land of the Dead, their zombie union leader, the former gas station worker in that one, still fills gas tanks.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:24

Oh, okay. For maximum overdrive trucks.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:27

I was gonna say, I think in in Day of the Dead, they have like a zombie chain to a wall and they're trying to train it to do basic things. I think in Sean of the Dead, they even showed a video in the movie, play video games or participate in game shows and shit. It's pretty it's pretty great. Like the the down with the sickness, and they're like Jay Leno, Burt Reynolds, like Rosie O'Donnell. Oh, yeah, I'm gonna be a board of it. So uh I'm going to his show. His show got picked back up somehow. He's got a late night show again.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:57

Oh, I wonder why.

Meet Me Halfway (through the movie)

SPEAKER_04 1:30:57

So I'm gonna go participate in the uh audience. Gotta be out there to support Jay.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:02

You gotta you gotta go out there. You know what I'm saying? You see what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 1:31:06

I love the man has survived everything. So if he's gonna be able to do that, I mean, truly, truly.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:11

I I am supposed to stay 500 feet away anyway. So he gets his ass. Who do you not have a restraining order against the problem? Any person that's known in more than a tri-state area. I'm I mean, maybe we're not allowed to be talking right now, Stimson.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:26

I uh no, I keep a fairly careful track of my restraining orders. Tell you this for a few. I mean, this is against other people and the ones I have against makes.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:37

They have a like a family dinner, like a chosen family dinner. And we find out that Andre's wife is like chained up and gonna have this baby like any moment or whatever, but this is the moment that the movie tries to do a lot of lifting in terms of character building, and we haven't really talked about it. It's like I think Jake Weber is the very quiet, like centering factor of this movie where and it the movie very much makes him Davey Crockett, as Ty Burrell calls. Like, you're the fucking leader, you're the guy, and he's like, I wasn't great as a dad or a husband, but I was great as a dad, but I also had to work some jobs, and there's I don't know, maybe it's it's weird because I've loved the Fincher movie so much that I guess it's like kind of similar to life, or how this movie goes. It's like movie goes in, goes hard in the paint. This fucking shit is happening, here we go, nothing's gonna really be explained, and there's not necessarily gonna be a happy ending for this character, or you're not gonna understand things. Is these people, even during this family dinner, it mostly stays. They none of these people seem to have a really intimate relationship with each other in the four or five days they spend here.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:49

Uh Ty Burrell definitely has an intimate relationship with I am wrong, you are right.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:56

I mean, there is something there, and I maybe I'm just asking for it to be explored more in some ways, but there is something there in the character um like development, and especially that the leaders now in this uh little community, you know, are a nurse, this dude who's worked like a handful of gig jobs, and a cop. And these are all like working class positions.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:20

People who work in service-based positions or what have you, technically. Like, yeah, my taxes pay your fucking salary, officer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:27

But I mean, like, there is something to be said about them like being they're used to this kind of stress, a nurse or a cop, you know, like they're used to this level of there's there is there's stuff there. I think that I I think it just it took the route of just like let's have more fun and care less about that. Which I'm not the thing that is super fun about this movie, and I think you already said it, Stimpson, but this five to ten minute short film of his wife giving birth to this zombie baby, and the it's great.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:55

No, no, it's the actors are absolutely delivering. Andre's death is genuinely heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:01

You want to kill my family? Like, dude, yeah, the delivery.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:04

Like, just I feel like, and so I'm gonna put this to you two, as working actors, unlike myself, who just cameos in my own work. Tell me that it's not the sort of thing that as an actor you're reading, this is going, oh my god, I want to do this bit. This is a good thing. Oh my god, yeah, hell yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:19

Just this this is how you get Makai Pfeiffer in this movie, and not as like the lead role, uh especially at this point, I think, in his career. So this he's done like paid in full and I think eight mile and some other stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:31

This is a movie, and that is Makai Pfeiffer.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:33

Oh if you'd like to make a call, please.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:37

Oh mom spaghetti. I do see I do wish so the zombie babies talking about spaghetti. That zombie baby is great, and we only get it for a second.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:46

But I the makeup effects great.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:48

I almost wanted it to go full like zombie when Andre and the older like opening episode of Z Nation pilot kind of yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:57

When when the older lady that came on the truck with Tyborell and Andre, that moment of tension is fucking awesome. It's the best part of the movie. He's been trying to protect his wife, he's been obsessed with it the whole fucking movie. He's not in his right mind, yeah. Some good moments. He's holding his zombie daughter, he has completely broken. Which, whether you're a parent or not, Ving Raim's not seeing his brother, like whether you're a brother or not, I don't know if you feel like that, like you need more of the brother to brother story. With this, I I don't know. I I don't think you have to be a dad to be like anybody would fucking break. Well, not like holy shit, and I and the slow-mo bang bang.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:40

I'm not sure who said it, but I actually do think that this scene has a lot to do with the rest of the movie. And I think that when they are having like they show the bodies, and Ving Rang says something like, There is something worse than death, because he's staying here to die in like that scenario, that thing that just happened, they're seeing this basically someone slowly go insane and fucking die at the worst possible point.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:07

And I think they're well and they're realizing that they have a lot of food, they have the ability to survive, but sooner or later, every one of them is gonna go out like Andre, or something like that, eating another tragedy waiting for them if they don't take some sort of pro action.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:22

I agree. Of a movie that is pretty graphic and pretty fucking gory at times. I find the the moment that's probably the most difficult to look at when Andre and that what's her name, Thelma, I don't fucking know, shoot each other. It's just brutal. And the movie so it does this so fucking often, and I don't want to see it in this moment. In this moment, it makes sense and it has a good dramatic effect. But when it's like you see the zombie and then it cuts and the gun goes off. And I don't know how many times this movie, like Matt Frewer and other times, like this movie cuts and a gun goes off, and it's like, all right, just don't even have the fucking gun go off. Like maybe that's more haunting. Like you're doing you're doing this too much. Show me the headshots, balance it out. Sure. And but they're willing to do it to Andre's wife, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:12

I guess because she's so feral, like, and because he's kept her there and allowed her to become feral, but I think the way they're doing it, and you're right, that they're overusing it, but they're always using it as the punctuation to a scene. Yeah, it's the ending of the scene. In the case of the wife, it is the middle of the scene. There is still more action that needs to take place in that moment. There's the shooting back and forth between the old lady and Andre.

SPEAKER_05 1:37:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:35

Whereas any other time they use the shot, they never go back to the scene. So I think they overuse it, but it's always meant as the stopping point.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:44

Sure. And I that's fine. I don't I guess is this movie six acts or an opening in five acts? It's just that gunshot thing happens so many times, like, especially depend-I mean, it's more than there are act breaks. I don't know. The I thought it was three acts. I felt like it was like five closer to five, and I'm more than willing to be corrected, but I think it's standard three-act structure with the second act being longest.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:12

Act one is then getting to the mall, and then the big twist is when they take down CJ because when they get to the mall, they're on their back foot. And then act two is from the time the people with the van get there all the way up to when Andy gets bit across the way. And then the climax is the desperate race to fit to save redheaded girl, who I'm sorry, shouldn't be saved. The dog knew the dog was fine. He knew the dog was fine.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:41

I deleted my notes, so I cannot retort, but I will not raise my score in this moment. As you were about to get to where I was, Ty Burrell's like, yeah, let's head to the marina and pop out, get out of my boat, you jackasses. And they go over the plan of modifying these buses and getting getting out of there, but they have to get Andy the gun guy, and it's the dog thing. They're like, We're gonna send chips the dog after this football.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:04

We have to feed him because he's hasn't eaten in in forever.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:08

I actually like the idea behind the dog.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:10

Yeah, me too.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:11

Like a clever, interesting. What I didn't like is when the dog got stuck over there, red hair girl endangers everybody's lives, too, even though she has already plainly seen the zombies are not interested in the dog. Just the dog was fine, yeah, and she had multiple people killed as a result.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:28

Spare me with the dogs and the cats and the raccoons and the otters and the fucking sharks and blah blah just fucking spare me.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:35

But you're not a save the cat man, are you? You're a seeing the cat, you're gonna kill the cat. I still like aliens better, weirdly.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:42

He hates Jonesy. He wants to be that is untrue. He wants Jonesy to die.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:47

I don't feel like terrible thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:48

I don't feel like the dog is used in this as an emotional anchor. Uh, I feel like it's for Lindy Booth, but for that character, which is dumb. And I think that like the character is dumb, but it's not dumb that they send the dog or use the dog. Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:03

I don't think I find the dog clever. What they did with the dog was clever. What they did with the human character, I was just like, nope, let him eat her, let the zombies eat her. Nope, I'm out.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:12

No, I don't disagree with you. I just don't like that this is the character's motivation to keep the story going. I'm on board with this movie killing as many people as it wants. Even with the Jake Weber doing this weird chainsaw thing, as they're modifying the buses, he's like, hey, check it out. I know I can easily murder stuff. And she's like, Oh, this entire movie, I'm not impressed by that, and still not.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:35

Yeah, and they there's this bizarre romance thing, it's it's weird.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:40

The romance didn't work, but I do kind of love the scene with the chainsaw, if only because well, let's be real for a moment. That is 100% real life how the three of us would be reacting if we were building up our war van and we came up with this. We 100% would want everybody to see our cool chainsaw idea. That to me is a believable human moment that I am absolutely sold on.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:07

Oh, I think you're totally wrong. And by the way, I am a Ving Rameser nerdy, shitty little security guard kid. We can tell from your mustache. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:15

But you're telling me figure. He wouldn't you wouldn't want to show off your zombie carver to keep zombies off the side of the thing that you invented.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:24

Fucking social cues, bro. That woman fucking like half a dozen times in this movie is like, what the fuck is wrong with all of you murdering everybody? And he's like, No, but check this out.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:34

When I murder everybody, like I do she does say when they're shooting people from the from the roof, she is like, You guys had like messed up childhoods. Yeah, she's like, You guys are fucking sick.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:44

I mean, that is, you know, she doesn't want to kill Matt Frewer, she's super against it.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:48

But the the I I think you're right though, that Stimpson, in terms of it shouldn't have been in the script. Like, the one things that I do hate about, and this is happens in horror movies a lot, is that the plot has progressed through dumb character, the plot has progressed because characters make dumb decisions. And like, this is one of the problems that I have with most alien movies, past aliens, especially with like Prometheus, where you have these like really intelligent biologists and then they counter an alien species and they're like petting it. They're like, Come here, takes off his glove, and he's like, Come here. And so, like, when she is emotionally compromised by like, I have to save the dog, which we all already discovered. We we set up the rules of this world, the dog is fine, and so like that character, then like basically the plot progresses, and they had they could have come up with a better way to make that plot go forward, it's absolute selliness, yeah. But we do get that we do get to jump right into this fucking oh metal of like driving things, like they have to go into the sewers, they have to go get Andy, who's gone.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:50

Oh, it's metal as hell. What it the reason they do it is stupid, but it's great action.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:55

I do like too that he put like he's doing what he's been doing, and he takes it and he puts blood on the whiteboard and holds it up. And I'm like, that is a cool thing because we've seen they've established that he's gonna do the things that he's already done. And poor Andy, I wish I I ship Andy and Ving Rames. I think they had a relationship budding.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:13

Well, you picked up the whole subtext they were doing with Andy is Andy is the surrogate for Big Rain's brother, who he never got to say goodbye to. That's why his literal words he says before shooting Andy is by brother.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:29

Yeah. But now we get these awesome metal fucking buses and the fucking the scene that I went, fuck yeah, was the chainsaw into the woman when they're the bus is like opening. Oh fuck man, chainsaw throwing the propane tank and exploding it. Fuck yeah. I'm hearing.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:46

The two most underdeveloped characters in the script, other than one shot, are blonde girl who gets naked. Oh, yeah, yeah. Old guy who it's implied might be a cross dresser, but it's also established that the lady who the overweight lady was his wife. His wife seems and it definitely comes up the whole hey, you stuck a rod through my wife's skull thing. Like his people are complex. His only plot contribution is losing his balance and killing the blonde.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:17

Which is I mean, he did he also serves Sarah Paulie a paper that says you have to stay 500 feet away from my dead wife now that you stabbed her and then eyeball. Yeah, they that hit the cutting room floor with the romance.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:32

I thought that was a great effect. The the uh chainsaw in the shoulder.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:36

Oh god, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:37

Look great. I mean, like shit's gone tits up at this point, literally.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:41

Um I will say, as much as I did not like this movie when I saw it as a kid with you, Ben, the moment that has stayed in my head for 20 years is them throwing the propane tank, it lands in the crowd, and the one naked zombie who's this big muscly guy just picks it up, confused, as CJ just doesn't. Damn, that's hardcore. And then it's like, you know what? Dude, I remember that scene.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:06

Have we all seen 28 years later?

SPEAKER_01 1:45:08

I have how of course we have. It's an alpha.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:12

Those giant dicks running at you.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:14

Just fucking huge. Hey, we need dicks chucked on dicks, also fucking.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:19

I just want to, I just imagine that they're making it like no, it's gotta be bigger.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:24

The pasta is dick. I like in this movie that it opens up with the don't worry, be happy. Like, you're safe in the mall where consumerism happens, and then when they're leaving the mall and it's I'm all out of love, I'm so lost without you. And then for me, the movie does this like crazy metal shit with chainsaws and blood flying, and that woman getting cut in half bisected, essentially, as you guys were saying, is fucking incredible.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:50

Yeah. I think I wish Zack Snyder made more movies like this.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:54

Yeah, sure. I heard an interesting thing about Zack Snyder. Uh, when Watchmen came out and they did the thing where people would always say, from visionary director, whoever, I think being called visionary was the worst thing that ever happened to Snyder. When Snyder was allowed to do his own thing, like Dawn of the Dead or 300, his stuff was fun and it was very low intellect, but it was just great visuals in interesting ways. And I think where we have run into a lot of problems when people love or hate him, is I think both sides are overthinking it.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:29

Zach Snyder is not a white supremacist with any weird, subtle stuff he's put in. He's also not the second coming of filmmaking. He's a guy who likes cool visuals and really doesn't think hard about what those visuals might imply.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:44

No, I yeah, he's a jag. I yeah, I think that happened, by the way, Stimson is 300 was his version of every filmmaker any of us have mentioned with the style of what dreams may come peppered in, and people were like, Yeah, more of that. Yes, please. And it became a problem, right? I think to a degree. So Steve is gonna abandon everybody because Steve's gonna take care of Steve as they're trying to escape and looks like they're not gonna make it. And Anna keeps her promise and fucking shoots him in the head and steals his bokeys.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:19

I gotta say, my favorite bit with Steve, which honestly felt like bad writing, but my little headcanon just had me laughing about it. He leaves them all trapped behind the door, and it's never explained why. It's not that he went off to do something evil, they find him, he's just flirting with the hot girl. That's all he was there was no weird, evil Machiavellian thing going on. He's just a douchebag.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:44

Yeah, I do like that she gets that blast off ties Burrell's head. Like she we get that full circle.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:52

A lot of the headshots in this movie, like the effect really works. It's man, I wish this movie could be made with a resident evil skin. Like it just gets that idea of being trapped in an area and a horde of zombies coming after you. Please, Zack Krager is we've talked about weapons on this, please, Zach Krager. So they they go to escape on the boat after the final attack, and Michael Weber, Mr. Weber, and they Jake Weber reveals I was bitten, I I can't go with you, it's not safe, and off-screen, he shoots himself.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:24

I do like CJ uh getting his full take he sacrifices himself blowing up the bus with that giant propane in the case. I do I do too.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:34

Well, CJ I think has the biggest character arc of the whole film.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:37

Him and Andre. Yep. I like the end of this movie too. I mean, I think that like it's fun that they think like they end it, and you're like, oh yeah, they got away on this boat. Like using the found footage stuff is great of showing, like, first off, showing Tyberell just like still being a dick with his dick out.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:57

The survivors of the Dixie boy are not survivors because everybody in this movie fucking dies, which I think I agree is a great.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:07

It's not like maximum overdrive where it's like, yeah, they got on a boat and then I guess you'll it'll be fine.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:10

No, a few days later, no problem.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:13

They got on a boat and they got to whatever island and they're still fucked. Nope.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:17

Similar to spoilers, the end of the mist can make this hard choice or a different hard choice, or whatever, just like make make a hard choice. This movie makes a hard choice, it doesn't avoid it like maximum overdrive. I credit it for that.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:29

Yeah, and let's not forget famous films where you think it's a happy ending, but the characters all die. The Blue Lagoon.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:35

Oh, I did yeah. What?

SPEAKER_01 1:49:38

I'm sorry, I had to do a really out of left middle. And the Blue Lagoon, the young couple. The beginning of the sequel is the young couple dead on the boat and then a different couple. The sequel to Blue Lagoon. So they didn't return the fact that they starved at sea.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:55

Wow. Good stuff. The end of this movie, though, Paul, that needle drop. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:03

Yep, they go with the full-on metal version because the movie has committed to that. And there's like, we're going all the fucking way.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:10

And the world's fucked now. Everything like the zombies have taken over.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:15

Hey, not where that sheriff is. Wherever that sheriff guy is, he seemed to have things under control.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:19

Yeah, Tom Savini's like, look, I'm Tom fucking Savini. Check out the mustache. You think I fuck around? And people are like, all right, bro.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:26

Well, we're at the end, so let's not bury the lead. Uh, we're at the end of this movie. Let's see. I went first. So I need to see. Does did my rating out of five changed? I came into this conversation with three. Uh three zombie babies. I I feel like we made a lot of good points in both ways, in both directions, which is interesting. And I think ultimately I'm gonna go up to three and a half zombie babies because I do think that this is a fun, very approachable, very I could re-watch this. Like, this is not an unwatchable movie. I could re-watch this again. It does its job, and it's really fun to see sort of a marriage of Snyder and Gun in a way that we'll never see again. And that's like early gun, and there's some issues with the script, and it's early Snyder, and there's some weird visual choices, but also some really cool ones. And I again I like the practicals and how metal this is. So I'm gonna go three and a half zombie babies.

SPEAKER_04 1:51:24

What happens if James Gunn hires Zack Snyder to direct a movie?

SPEAKER_03 1:51:29

It's an interesting idea. I feel like that would be wild. I just feel like the conversation online has like poisoned everyone's brains, everyone, they're everyone's pickled brains about that conversation. I don't I imagine they're actually a very cordial working relationship, um, unlike what the internet wants us to think.

SPEAKER_04 1:51:47

Yeah, I bet they'd have be complete and total professionals on above board and do cool shit.

Final Ratings

SPEAKER_01 1:51:53

I think I would I think I would actually love this because as Ben was bringing up just how toxic everything has become, it would be a great little slap back to that whole attitude to have the two people that have this totally fictitious competition be like, no, we work together well. Also, James Gunn is a great tastemaker and he's a great curator. So as long as he's overlooking the script and has all of his James Gunnisms behind him, I'm sure he could actually put Snyder to work on work that would bring out the absolute best in Snyder.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:24

It would be a beautiful, healing, unifying thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:27

And the internet would absolutely hate whatever they made, you know, even if it was the second coming of Christ. Just to be mad.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:34

They should remake Passion of the Christ. I think that's a good call.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:36

We got the rights for Megalopolis 2 from Francis Ford, guys.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:40

Did you guys notice there was a store in the mall called Metropolis? Yes, I did.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:45

I found that very funny.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:46

Is that something?

SPEAKER_01 1:52:47

I think that's a Fritz Lang callback because Jane, uh, I think this was um, I don't think that's Gun, I think that's Snyder. Uh Snyder and his influences, like if you if his stuff where he's bad in writing, Snyder is great at symbolism. So his whole name is absolutely buried in symbolism. And Metropolis is absolutely the sort of thing Snyder would be putting in there.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:09

Yeah. Based on Superman or the Fritz Lang thing, that's the thing, is it's like a multiple. Yeah, of course, there are layers to this shit, dog. Ben, yeah. I need to know your final was three and a half.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:21

Three and a half dead babies. Stimpson. Zombie babies.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:23

I need to know yours. You kind of really want to hold at my four dead babies because the thing is, it's not a deep movie at all. It has nothing to say. There is nothing that's gonna bring it up to that gold standard of good horror, but it is a really rock solid zombie movie. And I have, and I and if you ask me to name zombie movies that are shallow, which ones are as good as this? And I genuinely can't think of a single zombie movie, with the exception of the ones that go above and beyond to have deep commentary. Of the zombie wannabes, nothing scratches the surface of this in terms of quality between good kills, good action, good moments. I'll bring it down a little bit because there's a lot of stuff that I have to admit are pretty dumb, and I think I was being very charitable mostly because I was so shocked that it wasn't absolute dog shit, because that's how I remembered it as a kid. So I will bring mine down to three and three-quarters dead babies. Oh, Liberty Ruy. Liberty Roy. By the way, so slightly more than Ben, but we're gonna have to get the hacksaws out to really slice the differences.

SPEAKER_04 1:54:34

Maybe the chainsaw dead zombie babies, the acid edged blade sword.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:37

I will say that I and I haven't seen it in a long time, but after seeing this in college, I watched the original Dawn on the Dead, Georgie Romero, and I found it a little boring. And I maybe it's a need to be a revisit to it, but I found it like compared to this one in particular, I found it kind of boring, and this is like pure adrenaline action fun.

SPEAKER_04 1:54:56

That sets me off onto my scoring, unless you Stimson, did you have anything else?

SPEAKER_01 1:55:02

Nope. Uh, for the type of zombie movie it's being, I think it's peak, it's just what it's trying to be isn't that great.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:08

Yeah, I agree with that, and Ben, I agree with your what you're saying. I think this is France white bread. I think it's so mass consumable. Night of the Living Dead, Day of the Dead, Dawn of the Dead, uh, Land of the Dead, these George A. Romero things, or the Danny Boyle things, or the other things that exist by other filmmakers in this uh uh I'm gonna mispronounce his name, Brava, the Italian filmmaker. But this is not only perfectly acceptable, it's a little above average. And I could see why a lot of people would find a lot of zombie movies really fucking boring, especially if it's like I like horror movies, I like zombies, just entertain me. And the thing for a long time with this genre has been 28 days later, change the fucking game. It's about fast, relentless, hungry, feral creatures, and this movie helped set that tone from a lot of aspects as well, and I give it credit for that. But I also think it aspires to be more than Franz White Brad. I don't think it does achieve that, but to almost anybody who likes a good I like a good entertaining zombies and or horror movie, and or like quippy like horror comedy. What what about that? Absolutely. Sure. So I would never hesitate to recommend this, but I don't think I have an itch to watch it again. I think it said everything it's gonna say to me, and I didn't find it particularly super rich in many ways. So I'm gonna give it the three, we're gonna stick at the three because it is definitely above average. Three ooh, uh, ooh, what uh uh uh ooh uh as I had to break away.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:57

Can you do them as Richard Cheese, though? Ooh, what uh uh uh I almost gave this th uh three and a half pieces of Richard Cheese.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:06

I was debating his shot, so I thought we were on the bottom. I thought we were on the dead baby thing. I thought we were on the dead baby thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:13

Hey, we can be on whatever we I think it says a lot that we all this movie feels kind of generic to me. Whether it was at the time or not, I don't know. I think I felt that way, but it made sense to me that we were all going with similar rating systems because you know it's a pretty middle of the road. It is, yeah, and we're all in agreement by far.

SPEAKER_03 1:57:34

If you had just given me a short film of that, I'd be like, this is five.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:39

Oh my god, five perfect short. The the lady not speaking, the level of body acting and emotional acting and body language, and Mikai Pfeiffer just like it's just the most compelling someone can be in a movie. He's so good in that scene.

SPEAKER_03 1:57:58

Everybody should watch Oh if you haven't. Oh, it's so good. Stimson, thank you so much for coming back to this podcast and doing this movie that I saw with you 20 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:12

We're gonna have to work our way through the whole collection of movies we saw together in high school. We've got Dawn of the Dead, we've got Baba Hok. At some point, are we gonna dive into eternal sunshine or uh Stimson?

SPEAKER_03 1:58:24

I I know you said you don't want them to find you, so don't say anything about where they can find you or what where you might be. But once again 500 feet away, fuckers. Give us a plug for Tim Travers.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:35

Tim Travers and the Time Traveler's Paradox is a time travel comedy about a man who goes back in time one minute to kill his younger self to see what would happen. Along the way, he's going to encounter conservative newscasters played by Joel McHale, international assassins played by Danny Trejo, media producers played by Felicia Day, and an unnamed character played by Keith David. And I'm also in a supporting role. It's weird, it's out there, and currently we are tied on Rotten Tomatoes with Superman, even though we have a lot fewer reviewers. So I think that says something.

SPEAKER_04 1:59:10

There's a little, I like that. Also, want to mention Keith David, recent recipient from the Hollywood Chamber of Commerce of a star on the Walk of Fame, which is so cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:22

I texted with him that very evening.

SPEAKER_04 1:59:24

I think that's awesome. That is, you should brag about that. He's one of my favorite favorite character actors. He's so wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:31

I hate the fact that the thing I love him most for is none of his favorite movie roles, just like he's Goliath from Gargoyne. But yeah, Tim Travers and the Time Travelers Paradox available everywhere. Please check it out. And also, you know, review it. Maybe break that. Let's see if we can get up to 90% on Rotten Domain. Come on, 90%. Come on, guys. Let me beat a James Gunn movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:59:54

There, you're really talking to the Snyder fans out there right now. Uh, this is a gun.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:59

This is an off. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 2:00:02

Stimson, I'm so glad to see I'm so happy to see you. I'm so happy to catch up with you.

SPEAKER_04 2:00:06

Our bookend themes are Jamie Henwood. What you've been doing and what you've been watching are Matthew Foskett. Our fun facts theme is Chris Olds. Our interstitials are the gentleman I'm looking at, made of ones and zeros right here. Because we have to be at least a certain amount away. It doesn't matter, it's a different conversation. So, but I hope you enjoy the presents that I'm sending you by media mail. It's spooky. Well, it's not any sort of revenge. Is it a head in a box? You'll get it. You'll get it.

SPEAKER_03 2:00:36

Is it a head in a box?

unknown 2:00:38

No!

SPEAKER_04 2:00:38

No, never.

SPEAKER_01 2:00:39

You can sending the loving gift of X. The loving gift.

SPEAKER_04 2:00:44

You can follow us on Blue Sky and Instagram at review x2 podcast. Thank you so much for listening. Stay 500 feet away, but spooky.

SPEAKER_03 2:00:55

Stay spooky.

SPEAKER_04 2:00:56

While you're at it.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:59

Hi everyone, this is Jay.

SPEAKER_04 2:01:01

Well, I just want everyone as we're here. We were just talking about how uh Zack Snyder is an autour. What he does is great. He has done great things, and we truly appreciate him. Right? Yes?

SPEAKER_01 2:01:16

Snyder, if you're listening, I respect the hell out of you.

SPEAKER_04 2:01:18

I respect your work, sir. He's a damn autur. He's a fine filmmaker. Okay, thanks everybody.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:24

Hi everyone, this is JJ, the co-founder of Good Pods. If you haven't heard of it yet, Good Pods is like Goodreads or Instagram, but for podcasts, it's new, it's social, it's different, and it's growing really fast. There are more than two million podcasts, and we know that it is impossible to figure out what to listen to. On Good Pods, you follow your friends and podcasters to see what they like. That is the number one way to discover new shows and episodes. You can find Good Pods on the web or download the app. Happy listening.