Being John Malkovich / He's 6 7, But Actually (Guest: Rob Weldon)

Writer, and local celebrity (Burbank, CA and greater valley) Rob Weldon (Author/Creator "The Omnist Series") is back in the Paul Blart chair to dig into our collective subconscious, and his choice "Being John Malkovich," (1999 D. Spike Jonze). Starring: John Cusack, Cameron Diaz, Catherine Keener, and if yoooouuuuu ccaaannn beeellliiieeevvveee it JOHN MALKOVICH. The adventure of debating actors' height,  the thrill of quirky set design, the stickiness of the poo tube! You kids think you're so damn clever...6 7...whatever. 11.25!

****A member of the “Review Review,” family is in the fight of her life, you can help! - TAP/CLICK HERE

More With Rob:

Season 2 - What We Do in the Shadows

More Spike:

Season 2 - Her

Transcript

SPEAKER_07 0:00

Great!

SPEAKER_06 0:00

Alright, who's got the Farty seat again this time?

SPEAKER_07 0:03

Me. Almost always me. It's always Paul Fart Mulkop over here.

SPEAKER_10 0:07

I remember that.

SPEAKER_06 0:08

I remember that joke.

Guest Intro

SPEAKER_10 0:10

Uh hi everyone. Thank goodness I have so much to cut from in terms of what we've already recorded. My name is Paul. And my name is Ben, and I'm sitting right next to you. Literally, we are, and this is the most professional we've ever sounded. Partly because I am altering the timber of my voice to impress our guest today on the video. I'm very impressed. I knew you would be just you're such a good guest. You're better than you were before. Better than the rest.

SPEAKER_07 0:37

Just be a little better.

SPEAKER_10 0:38

That's not in jest. A little better every day. That's what I'm constantly shooting for.

SPEAKER_06 0:44

My bar is low, so I can pull this off for a little while.

SPEAKER_10 0:47

That explains part of why you're here. Welcome, everyone. That is the voice of Rob Weldon, who has lowered his bar to be with us again on the review review. What's the review review, Paul? The review review is a movie podcast where we invite a guest to bring a film that is seven years old or older, two hours and twenty two minutes or less, and something they are very passionate about and willing to speak about ad nauseum and go through the processes of ratings and scrutiny and debate, and we will decide how everybody feels about that movie after this spirited conversation.

SPEAKER_06 1:22

So this is the review review podcast about movies. But what about a review review podcast for a podcast? I had been on this show before, so this could be the review review.

SPEAKER_07 1:33

You want to just listen to that episode and then review it?

SPEAKER_06 1:36

No.

SPEAKER_07 1:37

Oh.

SPEAKER_06 1:38

I'm reviewing you now because I've been on it twice.

SPEAKER_07 1:41

What notes do you have?

SPEAKER_06 1:43

Well, going in, you guys are about a 9.1.

SPEAKER_07 1:46

Out of 100.

SPEAKER_10 1:47

So let's 100. What's happening to us? Out of 11. Okay. These go to 11. Podcast ratings go to 11. All right, fair enough.

SPEAKER_06 1:57

But that's the pre, and then we rate it at the end.

SPEAKER_10 1:59

Well, that's great because I was going to get the ultimate.

SPEAKER_06 2:01

Isn't that your format?

SPEAKER_07 2:03

Yeah, I mean, we've started high here, so it's only downhill from here.

SPEAKER_10 2:07

D plus, click, whatever, F plus. But Rob, I give you an A plus.

SPEAKER_07 2:12

Thanks for coming back, Rob. Then I give you an A plus. I'm really hard on myself. I mean, if you aren't familiar, if you haven't gone digging in our annals of our episodes. Don't dig in my annals. We were in the annals last time, Robin. Find me dinner first. That's true. We did what we do in the shadows. What we do in the shadows was Rob's last episode for Spooky Season. Was it spooky season?

SPEAKER_10 2:33

2020. No, it wasn't. He just happened to pick a rad movie. Okay. With some horror elements.

SPEAKER_07 2:38

Okay, yeah. Listen to that episode, though.

SPEAKER_06 2:40

It was what we do in the shadows.

SPEAKER_10 2:41

Yeah. D2R. Right? Yeah, I am wearing a Detroit jacket. That's right. Detroit versus everybody. We went with what we do in the shadows, not during spooky season.

SPEAKER_07 2:51

Paul's really good at just reading things that are in front of him.

SPEAKER_10 2:56

I'm good at telling spooky. It's all he does on Xbox. Well, Rob, while we're here, uh we did what we do in the shadows, and that was a great time. It's really fun. This time we're doing Bang John Malkovich. Is that the worst John Malkovich you've ever done? It was pretty bad.

SPEAKER_06 3:12

I didn't even know what that was.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

I just thought it was.

SPEAKER_06 3:15

Did somebody hit the slow-mo button?

SPEAKER_07 3:17

Big John Malkovich. It sounds like you had a stroke.

SPEAKER_06 3:21

He's gonna play with the tempo like later. Makes himself sound normal. He's gonna speed it up a little bit.

SPEAKER_10 3:26

Why does this beer taste like pennies? Being John Malkovich being a bit. Did somebody get the toast at Malkovich Malkovich?

SPEAKER_06 3:34

He's having a stroke.

SPEAKER_10 3:35

Malkovich Malkovich? But uh Rob, what you've been doing?

SPEAKER_06 3:59

You know. Oh, you know.

SPEAKER_07 4:01

No, that's why I asked. Tell us, tell us the people might not have rem uh listened to the last episode, so tell people who you are, which is.

SPEAKER_06 4:07

I'm sure when they saw that I was on the show, they did not listen.

SPEAKER_10 4:10

It's one of our most popular episodes in terms of downloads.

SPEAKER_06 4:13

Really? Rob, people enjoy you. I told you I'm a low bar. Like that's you're a local celebrity. No, but um since the last time I was the movie on the show, um, I drank some more beer and then I went a little while without drinking, just to clear, clear out and clear my head. I published a book called The Soul Phone Collector that came out last summer, but I have not published the next book yet, which I'm overdue with. I'm still dealing with my editor's notes and whatnot. It's a it's a hard process. Uh unlike you guys who are naturals and you can just roll with it, I'm taking all these notes and You said like seven things that are impressive to me.

SPEAKER_07 4:52

That's it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 4:54

9.1.

SPEAKER_10 4:55

9.1, yeah. Let's go with the 9.1. This episode is brought to you by not 6 7, but 9.1. It's brought to you by 9.1, Rob. We're safe. But you were talking about your book that you're gonna publish soon. I'm reading your first book, Consumia's Spiritual Emporium, and I'm just through the first bit of it. We were talking about just the descriptive world that you create. And we're gonna be on about your writing.

SPEAKER_06 5:20

We might go and get a beer later at a place that's mentioned later in that book. It's true.

SPEAKER_10 5:25

Oh my gosh. Guild hall in Burbank. Yes.

SPEAKER_06 5:27

I know it. And it's it's only called the guild in the book series. Everything's a little bit off Porto's bakeries, poncho's, you know, this is kind of what I mean by local celebrity.

SPEAKER_07 5:36

I feel like of the Burbank area, I feel like you are a celebrity. It's not like George Clooney. Not like George Clooney eating at Smokehouse or something. Which which is still pretty cool, though. I mean, if you can run into George Clooney at Smokehouse. You can get seated at the Smokehouse. That's I mean, depending on the I'm a fan. I get a good I got a I like to get a good dry martini with a twist. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 5:59

Best martini in town.

SPEAKER_10 6:00

Yeah. Really?

SPEAKER_07 6:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 6:02

That this is coming from an authority. You know the Burbank area. Yeah. I'm not saying you've had every martini in Burbank.

SPEAKER_06 6:08

No.

SPEAKER_10 6:09

But as somebody who can speak to a good Party or a good martini, this is somebody that I think is gonna steer me in the right direction.

SPEAKER_07 6:17

You want a 9.1 martini. I don't want a 10.

SPEAKER_10 6:20

But not a 6.7 either.

SPEAKER_07 6:21

It's got more personality at 9.1.

SPEAKER_10 6:23

Exactly.

SPEAKER_07 6:24

Yeah. The 10 is a little too perfect. If you try to get 10, it's not gonna get there. Reach for the 9.1. Might not hold away with that. Maybe. Or a 67. Oh no. Hey Paul, what Paul, what have you been doing? Have you been hanging out with Gen Alpha?

SPEAKER_06 6:43

With Jelpha?

SPEAKER_10 6:44

Because I have. No cap. Law Flame. Oh, bet. Bet. Yeah. Six, seven days a week. I went and saw, should I say Macker's? Is this a theater technically because you're a director?

SPEAKER_07 6:54

I don't subscribe to that um folklore.

SPEAKER_10 6:59

Yeah, it's called Macbeth. I saw Ben's directorial direction adaptation. Directed adaptation with like a southern twist of Macbeth or at the roguelike tavern on Pass Avenue in Burbank.

SPEAKER_06 7:15

Nice.

SPEAKER_10 7:16

And soon there will be a fundraiser there. It will have passed by now. True. But submissions, I think, are still open, maybe for 1448.

SPEAKER_07 7:24

Submissions are open through December 15th. Where do people go there? They can go to 1448Hollywood at Instagram or 1448Hollywood.org to submit as an actor, a writer, a director, a musician, a designer, someone who just wants to volunteer and come hang out with a cool community of artists. It's uh the festival is February 6th and 7th, so that's when you have to be available. Plenty of time to plan for that. Yeah, lots of time. So I submitted as an actor only. I I saw. I was very excited to see Paul's name on the. Oh wow, thank you. Low bar.

SPEAKER_10 7:55

Is this episode brought to you by a low bar or 9.1? Or is it somewhere in the middle, like a 6-7? I we have to stop that. I have to stop that. Me specifically.

SPEAKER_07 8:05

Or like, you know, like uh eight and a half?

SPEAKER_10 8:10

The far chair is like out of control. At least we're out of the annals, but the farts followed.

SPEAKER_07 8:13

Was it seven and a half? What's the floor?

SPEAKER_10 8:15

What floor is bottom of the top floor?

SPEAKER_06 8:17

The pelvic floor, it's right there.

SPEAKER_07 8:18

No, but in the movie, in the movie. In the movie we're talking about, is it seven and a half or eight and a half? Their floor. Malkovich.

SPEAKER_10 8:24

It's seven and a half. Malkovich. Malkovich. But to your point about the 1448, I want to say I considered submitting as a writer, but I don't have a writing sample. All I have is a following script. Should I have sent like a five-page sample of my writing?

SPEAKER_07 8:39

I would say that if you had something you had written for the stage, then I would say submit five five pages would be fine. We're mostly looking at stuff, stuff that's written for the stage.

SPEAKER_10 8:52

Oh, that directly correlates, that makes sense, that has a logical thread, not what I'm saying. I'm not that skilled, so no.

SPEAKER_07 8:59

Yeah, but you know, I mean But you the other thing though that is really interesting about this about this festival is I feel like once you do it at any in any medium, like if you do it as an actor, I feel then we also let those people submit as writers because I think they they get to know the festival and they get to understand what it wants and what the writing, like what good writing for the festival is.

SPEAKER_10 9:23

So what the festival wants. Give me what I want.

SPEAKER_06 9:26

Like, does it have Ben sounds very professional. He is. I'm just throwing that out there.

SPEAKER_10 9:31

He is. This guy's going for his master's, he's directed two plays this year. He does this podcast, he chilt, he teaches America, he chillts, he teaches America's youth. This is Superman. And I coach. And he coaches, and he lost his first game. And he's look at it. He's not mad that I mentioned it at all. He's not sticking his finger off at me. He's fine. Everything's fine.

SPEAKER_07 9:53

But did you were you wondering what I've been doing? Because you've you kind of said what I've been doing.

SPEAKER_10 9:57

I was kind of trying to lead toward the 1448. Yeah. Explain the lead-in game.

SPEAKER_07 10:00

Planning 1448 again. Go to 1448hollywood.org. Please come submit. And if you don't want to submit or be an artist, come see it. We have performances the 6th and the 7th of February. We have two performances a night, 7 30 and 9 30. It is a fucking romp, and it's at the Broadwater in Hollywood. I highly recommend just coming to check it out and getting to know the community. Yes, Paul, you have a question?

SPEAKER_10 10:21

I think it's a side note that's really cool that I met have mentioned to a couple people. There are live musicians that have also come up with music for this whole thing, like while it's happening in between.

SPEAKER_07 10:31

It's fucking amazing. Yeah, the musicians meet like that day and then they just create a set list of introduction songs. They can do covers. They sometimes they come in with original stuff based on the theme of that day, uh, which is really cool when they just decide to write a whole new original song.

SPEAKER_10 10:47

Just because I'm not original, is that why you're looking at me?

SPEAKER_07 10:52

And so yeah, I mean, come see 1348. Hollywood.org. But also, uh, my team is going back to the championship, Paul. As of yesterday.

SPEAKER_10 11:00

Your fantasy team or your actual team in real life of actual people where it actually counts in people's lives?

SPEAKER_07 11:05

My real life team made up of Gen Alpha kits that I that I coach.

SPEAKER_10 11:09

No cap. Yeah. Law Flame.

SPEAKER_07 11:11

As of yesterday, we won we won our game and we are returning to the championship like we won last year. Awesome.

SPEAKER_10 11:17

So everything's as it should be.

SPEAKER_07 11:19

I think so. Now we just gotta take we just gotta take that trophy again.

What Are You Watching?

SPEAKER_10 11:23

Now, Rob, I know this may be an inappropriate question for you. Oh no. But what have you been watching?

SPEAKER_00 11:31

What am I watching? What am I watching? What are we watching?

SPEAKER_06 11:47

Inappropriate's a weird word. I know why you say appreciate you for thinking about me because I don't watch anything. I feel like that's a lead-in to me saying that I don't have Wi-Fi at home and I so I don't have cable or internet.

SPEAKER_07 12:01

That's how you're able to write bliss.

SPEAKER_06 12:03

You would think, and that's and that was the case. The last time I was on the show, year and a half ago, that was what I was doing. And now I have no excuse for not writing like I was. Because I still don't have those distractions. I think you will find a way to distract yourself. That's true. I absolutely I believe you.

SPEAKER_10 12:21

Yeah. I I believe you.

SPEAKER_06 12:22

I mean, it's not like I'm not wholeheartedly completely not writing, but I'm not writing like I used to.

SPEAKER_07 12:27

Okay, well, this is for me as a writer. What I appreciate about my writing software is that it adds up thinking time. Like it has a little counter down below. No, I would hate that.

SPEAKER_06 12:37

Does you guys count as thinking time? Because I don't know if my brain's working the right thing. But I think that's the thing, though, right?

SPEAKER_07 12:43

Like as a writer, you're always sort of thinking about what you're like, you're always picking things up or being.

SPEAKER_06 12:50

That is true. I still I still text myself as many thoughts and ideas and quirks as I did back then. I'm just not necessarily writing everything else around it right now. When I do sit down and work on it, it there's so many ideas I can't keep up with my own thoughts sometimes. It's not a shortage of ideas. I just have been getting out of practice.

SPEAKER_07 13:11

Yeah, I understand that. It is a practice for sure.

SPEAKER_06 13:14

You have to be it's like going to the gym. Yeah. I haven't been going to my gym mentally.

SPEAKER_07 13:20

There's a really great uh I haven't literally moment. Did you ever watch Bojack Horseman? Love it. There's a really great moment. It's I think it's in one of the last uh seasons where he just keeps seeing the same like old, I think he's like a uh goat or something, like this old dude walk like running by his house. Right. And he sees and it starts every episode with this dude running by his house. And he comes and Bojack comes out and he just like in one of his like low moments on the ground, drunk or whatever, and he this goat dude, he looks at him and he's like, How do you do this all the time? And he goes, I don't know. It gets easier every day, you just gotta do it every day, and just keeps going. Bojack Horseman has those moments that just like hits you, and that was that's one that I think about all the time.

SPEAKER_10 14:06

I lack discipline.

SPEAKER_06 14:07

I remember telling somebody once that I loved Bojack Horseman and that God, it's so dark. I didn't see I don't see it as dark. I see it as hopeful. I see it as like if you're dark, this is a way of thinking your way out of it in a way.

SPEAKER_07 14:21

Yeah. Yeah, no, I agree. It kind of keeps you from the pit. It feels real. It doesn't feel like that.

SPEAKER_06 14:25

Because it is real, yeah, in my opinion. Yeah. It's written by people writing about their own experiences. They had to make it a cartoon so that it's not too dark.

SPEAKER_10 14:33

That was very clever to get Rob to talk about something he had watched. Was that intentional?

SPEAKER_07 14:38

Oh, boo. Wait, are you saying boo or booers?

SPEAKER_10 14:44

Boo, Jack was we had to get somewhere.

SPEAKER_07 14:47

We had to get to something.

SPEAKER_10 14:48

We just had quite a low bar, I guess. I think that decided that. How about you, Ben?

SPEAKER_07 14:53

I uh just and I went to the Egyptian, which I had never been there since Netflix like bought it and renovated it. Okay. Uh awesome. Awesome theater. The uh concessions are very modestly priced. Big fan. Really? So it's only a 22-ounce beer. Uh they didn't have more beer. They only have bottles of beer, but like the popcorn, like$7 for like a normal-size popcorn. 10 cents of popcorn for only something. I mean, I mean, compared to and the popcorn was high quality.

SPEAKER_10 15:24

Yeah, like actual butter and whatever.

SPEAKER_07 15:26

Yeah. And we saw a 35 millimeter screening of Frankenstein. Not to be confused with Frankenstein. There is a difference. That movie's older than I am. He saw the new one, right? The CDT. Uh yeah, yeah. Yeah, we saw that in the theater, which I really enjoyed seeing it in the theater. Gamel del Toro's loved it. I really enjoyed it. I think the production value, the designs, the miniatures, the models, the animatronics, the puppets, the everything, like the costumes. Uh Jacob Alordi's performance, who to this day, like before this, I was like Jacob Alordi. This some like like I just think of Saltburn, okay, which was like just some random British like hot dude. And I'm like, who's this guy? He's like six, he's six foot seven. He is? Unfortunately, like he is six foot seven. Six seven, he is six foot seven. He's huge.

SPEAKER_10 16:16

Oh wow, I did not know that.

SPEAKER_07 16:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 16:19

For a second, I thought you were just making the joke that's trying not to make anymore.

SPEAKER_07 16:22

He's a he's a giant man. Okay. And he's phenomenal.

SPEAKER_05 16:27

Paul is legitimately annoyed right now. I know.

SPEAKER_03 16:31

You're allowed to make this joke about it. We're not doing that in the world.

SPEAKER_07 16:34

I was trying, I I I heard myself about to say it, and I was like, ah, damn. It's true. But he is also That's what I saw on your face. He's also really good. He's really good.

SPEAKER_10 16:43

Oh, I don't doubt it. I don't doubt it.

SPEAKER_07 16:45

Um I really enjoyed it. I I mean it is a maximalist uh screenplay. There's not a lot of subtlety to it, but I don't mind it in this kind of way because Camel De Toro clearly just loves this. Is this to me is like his the the prototypes to what everything he's made is it has come from. Like the origin the original book. There's a piece of that book in every single thing of every piece of his every project that he's ever done.

SPEAKER_10 17:11

Oh, interesting. Wow.

SPEAKER_07 17:13

So I I could feel the love for the source material um coming through, and I enjoyed some of the changes he made and the and and a Lordy's performance was great. It's long, isn't it? Uh it's two, I think it's about a little under two and a half. Okay. In the theater, it was a great experience, though. I I don't know what it would be like on streaming.

unknown 17:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 17:34

I wish they just had a longer theatrical run, because I think it deserves that. And then I started uh Ploribus. Oh, please, yeah. This is the new um Vince Gilligan who did Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul and X-Files. Right. I watched the first episode. I had I really had no idea what it was. All I knew was that Rhea Seahorn was in it who I loved in Better Call Saul. And I thought that show got absolutely robbed because it no offense, Rob. It got robbed because I feel like it wobbar it got nominated. I think every year. I think it got nominated for something every single year it had a season and never won a single award.

SPEAKER_10 18:12

Goodfellas lost at dances with wolves. Like awards mean shit. It got pulled. It got pulled, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 18:19

But I'm just even in the score. But if I would say to go into Pleurubus, it's on Apple without knowing anything, other than the fact that Vince Gilligan has made those three things. X-Files, Breaking Bad, and Better Call Soul. That's all you need to know. Go into it and just fucking enjoy it. It's wild. It's great. I I texted Keiko Green guest this podcast because I was like, you have to watch this right now because it feels like something she would write.

SPEAKER_10 18:47

Ooh, okay.

SPEAKER_07 18:49

And I think that's high praise. I love her writing.

SPEAKER_10 18:51

It's like quirky, funny. Oh, great.

SPEAKER_07 18:54

Quirky, funny, weird, uh uh human, dark. It's fucking great. The first episode just had me hooked immediately.

SPEAKER_10 19:01

I'm excited to watch that. Truly I am. Me? Yeah. You know, I watched something that I guess is maybe akin to Frankensteinstein. It's Frankenstein. Frankenstein. I I re-watched for the first time in a very long time a movie directed by Chuck Russell, director of Nightmare in Elm Street 3, The Dream Warriors. Smoking in the mid-90s, he directed uh an un maybe an underappreciated movie called The Mask with a gentleman with a green face sometimes.

SPEAKER_07 19:36

You're not talking about mask, you're talking about the mask. With Eric Stoltz from Back to the Future and Pulp Fiction.

SPEAKER_10 19:42

No. Not mask. Pulp Fiction lost to Forrest Gump. Like, what is that? So so better Better Call Saul didn't win awards. It's amazing. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_07 19:51

Watch Better Call Saul.

SPEAKER_10 19:52

Okay. And apparently Claire Bus. But the the mask, it's such a fantastic early CG and how sparingly it's used and the times it's used and the way it's edited. I'm never not impressed with filmmakers being so sparing with it. And just the blend, I think I've realized of re-watching these things, especially from the mid-90s, Jurassic Park, for instance, of blends of practical effects and computer-generated effect. And it's really good in the mask. And Jim Carrey's great in it. And as we're talking about a movie with Cameron Diaz where she's like this unimaginable, unattainable bombshell in the mask in this movie. Sorry, you can't really like hide that she's a gorgeous human being, bundling with her frizzy, crazy hair and all that. It's a really good take on a I read that comic a little bit as a kid, and it's dark. It's very dark. And the movie is not that, but the movie, the adaptation, like the writing, some of the jokes. Like at a point, like he the mask is doing a balloon animal show for some gangsters, and that seems to be his main power in the movie is that he hypnotizes people kind of with his antics, but he pulls like a condom out of his pocket.

SPEAKER_05 21:12

I remember that.

SPEAKER_10 21:13

And there's just like things that Carrie says and whatnot that you're just like, oh wow. Movies we've done on this podcast, Twins or Poltergeist or Earth Girls Are Easy. The rating system is very bizarre.

SPEAKER_07 21:26

I I loved that movie as a kid.

SPEAKER_10 21:28

I really enjoyed it. It's like a three and a half. Really enjoyed that movie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 21:34

I think it was a little bit ironic that the mask ended up being funnier than it was initially maybe thought of. And then Cable Guy was thought of to be funnier, but then it ended up being way darker.

SPEAKER_10 21:44

That is funny. Do you have thoughts on Cable Guy at all? No.

SPEAKER_06 21:48

No? Did you see it ever? A long time ago. I actually saw the uh in San Jose of all places, it was their premiere. You know how they always would do like the Tuesday before the movie comes out so the radio stations could get people to go to a so I saw it there, and I had no desire to watch it again, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_07 22:08

Ben, thoughts on the cable guy? Saw it a little later in my Carrie watching. I was really into Ace Ventura and The Mask and Smokey Increment Show. Uh yeah, I love it. It's great. It's dark, it's weird, it's uh sad, and it's uh it hit one of his best performances.

SPEAKER_10 22:27

I think it's like a four and a half. I'm with Ben, I think that movie's kind of brilliant and like very like melancholy and kind of relatable in a lot of ways. Like where he talks about being a latchkey kid and stuff.

SPEAKER_06 22:38

But we're talking about Bojack having like this movie this um good faith sort of like even though things are dark, you know that there's a through line. I don't feel that through line quite so clearly in cable guy.

SPEAKER_07 22:51

I think that's fair. I think that's because it I'm not sure that was intentional at first.

SPEAKER_10 22:56

Yeah, I get what you're saying. Like if there's a randomness to it or a randomness of the journey of where this character is gonna go, or like there's something I feel like you're saying that I'm relating to. How do you feel about me, myself, and Irene?

SPEAKER_08 23:11

Price check on Vagicream, Vagicil, Magiclean.

SPEAKER_06 23:15

Wait, you call yourself Irene?

SPEAKER_07 23:18

Magiclean, Irene. Quick anecdote about me, myself, and Irene, which is the first time that statement's been said. Um You clearly never met a Ferrilly brother. I guess that's yeah. That's how he starts every conversation. Have you seen Quick Quick So anyway. Green Book? Green Book, Green Book? Me, myself, and Irene?

SPEAKER_00 23:38

Green book?

SPEAKER_07 23:38

White chicks? Wait, was it was that white chicks? Yeah, they did white chicks, right? Oh, was that I think that was the Wayans. Wayne's Wayans. Uh I was probably 13 when that movie came out, 13, 14, maybe. My brother. So I was 13, so my brother was 17. So I was 52, 58. Totally makes sense. That makes total sense.

SPEAKER_10 23:58

Wait, wait, was I eight?

SPEAKER_07 23:59

Uh we were not old enough to see that movie. The movies are. And it was in the middle of summer, and our my stepmom was gonna take drive us to the movie theater, and I was like, we were like, great. So and my the this is classic, my stepmom. We were like, my stepmom's name's Kai, and we're like, okay, so all you have to say is I'm buying two tickets to me, myself, and Irene. That's it. Just give us the tickets, we'll go to the movie.

SPEAKER_09 24:22

You were getting her to get you tickets to an R-rated movie.

SPEAKER_07 24:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 24:26

Who needs smokes? You don't have to buy me beers. Get me in this movie. Give me in the Jim Carrey movie. And so smoking.

SPEAKER_07 24:32

She's like, okay, I can I can do that. And she walks up to the box office. I'd like to get two tickets to the R-rated movie, Me, Myself, and Irene, for these two underage boys. And the box office person just goes, uh, I are you going with them? And she's like, No. Absolutely not. I would never see that. I can't, I can't do that. And we just like, we're like, that's everything you were not supposed to say.

SPEAKER_10 24:56

Your stepmom is more of a narc than me. That's correct. But she she was like, I got out of it.

SPEAKER_07 25:01

She's like, I did that on accident. You told me not to say it, and then I said it. Like she just she's like got nervous and just in the movie. Yeah. Anyway, we're not she was part of the conspiracy. We're thankfully not talking about me, myself, and Irene. So we should move on to another movie, a different movie. Also has a name though, in it. And it's not Irene.

SPEAKER_08 25:25

Malkovich. It's Malkovich.

"Being John Makovich" Facts

SPEAKER_07 25:28

Malkovich, Malkovich. Johnny Malk. Come on. Johnny Malks! Jackie Jackie Vic. Johnny Malk! Jack now with vitamin R. From the Ju from that Jewel Heist movie? I was never I never was in a jewel heist. Don't say the R-word, though. Yeah. No, you were. You were in that. He just looks at him and is like, no, that was you. That was you. No, that was you. You're the jewel thief. So we are going to talk about some facts.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

Archaeology is the search for facts.

SPEAKER_07 26:04

Being John Malkovich, uh, the name of the production company is Propaganda. Is that a Spike Jones? I wonder if it's not, because he was one of the producers. I feel I feel like. Well, Propaganda, Astral Work, Grammarcy. It was in 1999. I got more to say about that later. It is one hour and 53 minutes. The budget on this film, 13 million adjusted. That is 25.3 million. Opening weekend, October 31st. Cool. 1999. It made 637,000 in the US. Not great. 1.2 million adjusted. Final gross North America, though, 22.8 million adjusted. That's 44.4. 4444. Mine million adjusted. Final gross worldwide, 23.1, 45 million adjusted, which means it probably only went to Canada.

SPEAKER_06 26:56

I feel like sometimes these international numbers just haven't been updated.

SPEAKER_07 27:00

Well, or they weren't reported, or they just didn't go anywhere other than like Canada or the UK.

SPEAKER_10 27:06

Like a$25 million budget and then$45 million. Like that's not bad.

SPEAKER_07 27:10

Especially from its opening weekend. It jumped for sure.

SPEAKER_10 27:12

Yeah, it it had legs.

SPEAKER_07 27:14

And head. Bald head. Mouth coverage. Opening releases this weekend. Do you like John Malkovich as a as a bald representative?

SPEAKER_10 27:24

I do. I think he represents us well.

SPEAKER_07 27:26

I think he has a good. I think he's a strong. He's got a nice head. He's got a nice head.

SPEAKER_10 27:32

Until the comb over comes in.

SPEAKER_07 27:33

He's got like a 9.1 head.

SPEAKER_06 27:38

I'd say yours is closer to a When he started turning in a junk, he was like, that's pretty badass. Oh. The hair. In him imitating him. His voice was like spot on.

SPEAKER_07 27:51

Oh yeah. It was really good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 27:52

But anyway, go on.

SPEAKER_07 27:54

Other releases this weekend. The House on Haunted Hill, Music of the Heart, Princess Moonoki.

SPEAKER_10 28:01

Which one of those movies was directed by Wes Craven?

SPEAKER_07 28:04

Oh, great question. I'm gonna say Music of the Heart.

SPEAKER_10 28:07

Correct. The Merrill Street movie. Yep. Directed by Horror Master Wes Craven.

SPEAKER_07 28:13

I knew it wasn't House on Haunted Hill because it's not a very good horror movie. It's a trick question.

SPEAKER_10 28:20

And every Wes Craven horror movie has been great. Shocker. They're all great. Sorry. And Deadly Friend.

SPEAKER_07 28:28

Weekend Top 5, House on Haunter Hill as written here. I only read what's written on what's on the teleprompter. The Best Man, Double Jeopardy, American Beauty. This movie debuted at 17 and peaked at 8 in a four-plus month theatrical run. Other films from 1999, Stir of Echoes, Desert Heat, Jacob the Liar, At First Sight, Mystery Men, and Baby G. You know, for one of for one of the best years in cinematic history, this is awful.

SPEAKER_10 29:01

Please listen to our mystery men episode. This is awful.

SPEAKER_06 29:04

This ones he's picking is so awesome.

SPEAKER_10 29:06

Will there ever be, Ben? I don't know why you do what you do, but will there ever be another movie that's in the movie theater for four and a half months? I'm in hell.

SPEAKER_08 29:17

I'll tear your hole apart. Alright, wait, it's soul. Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 29:21

That too. Welcome back to the annals. This is hell. And it's Paul Head, Pinhead, same thing.

SPEAKER_07 29:29

Letterbox average of this movie is 4.1. Follow me on Letterboxd. I'm at Run BMC.

SPEAKER_10 29:37

I am at Paul Axe Badly. Rob I'm not. Fuck the internet. Why would you ask it so? I've been dead for a decade.

SPEAKER_06 29:43

I've been dead for a decade. I do have the nail polish.

SPEAKER_10 29:50

Is that why you're dead?

SPEAKER_07 29:51

Yep.

SPEAKER_10 29:52

He says he can be identified as a vampire.

SPEAKER_07 29:55

Judge me on the nail polish. No one judges you here. Paul Fox microphones.

SPEAKER_10 30:01

It's all good here. I told you that in confidence.

SPEAKER_07 30:04

You told me in front of your wife and our guests. And on mic. And recorded. Oh good. Can't wait to play that back. That's confidence. Um listens to you. Ebert and Knowles. Yeah. Uh, two up. RIP Cisco. Yeah. Rotten Tomatoes, 94%. Wow. Wow. 87% popcorn meter. Metacritic is 90. 8.3 user. Major awards wins noms, three Oscar noms, three Saturn noms, a best pick for uh Saturn, and three BAFTA with a screenplay win, four Golden Globes noms, GGA nom, and so on, so on, so forth, so on. So many awards.

SPEAKER_10 30:42

So many. Is anyone kind of surprised by the popcorn and audience rating of this? Like that it's so close to the critics, right? Because it's a pretty fucking left field movie. It's yeah.

SPEAKER_07 30:53

Sure.

SPEAKER_10 30:53

Yeah, I agree. I was just kind of surprised to see that it was so universally loved.

SPEAKER_07 30:59

I would argue if Rotten Tomatoes existed, if this movie came out today, it wouldn't have the same. Right. Rotten Tomatoes in this context was in like it's like creating it out of retrospective, right? Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 31:13

Like Pitchfork does with music. Is Pitchfork? I don't know. I kind of don't care. But the point is, but they would pan something that came out. I guess Rolling Stone did a lot of that too. They pan it when it comes out, like they hated Zeppelin, and then you know, by 1990, they're ranking them the greatest albums of all time, you know?

SPEAKER_10 31:31

You you don't do the sequel to the monster squad. You listen to the review review, and you're like, why aren't we making a sequel to the monster squad? You know what I'm saying? Probably not.

SPEAKER_06 31:41

That's me giving Darren headlights.

SPEAKER_07 31:44

He's asking, do you know what he's saying? Because he's asking you, because he's not sure he's too clear. Am I being clear?

SPEAKER_10 31:53

Do you understand what I'm saying? Oh, you're being so nice. My that secretary of my are are you being derogatory?

SPEAKER_07 32:02

It's his uh it's not his secretary, it's his uh assistant of something something uh he calls it something different. Yeah, something assistant, yeah. So good. It's like I must have a I have a really bad speech impediment.

unknown 32:14

Right.

SPEAKER_06 32:15

I don't know how she puts up with it. Oh oh is the uh agent that calls his receptionist the C-word. Right.

SPEAKER_10 32:23

Yeah, what the sir does the agent does. Yeah, Josh Rob. Well, if the movie's not completely ruined now.

SPEAKER_06 32:31

I I spoiled it. Sorry.

SPEAKER_10 32:33

I'll I'll mention again the director of this film is Spike Jones, where the wild things are hurt? Listen to our episode with uh Rachel Foskett.

SPEAKER_07 32:44

Adaptation period. Listen to our adaptation. Oh no. So, Rob, fun fact we did it's not fun. Sad fact, we recorded an entire episode for adaptation that got lost. Lost. Lost. Who's the guest premier playwright Keiko Green? Who's who will never be on the show again?

SPEAKER_06 33:04

She's come on twice since then. Okay, okay. So she forgave you.

SPEAKER_10 33:07

She did. I feel like we got a stamp of approval anyway by her returning. It was good.

SPEAKER_06 33:11

If you were smart, you would accidentally forget this one too.

SPEAKER_10 33:15

I will not. I will promote it. So good. Writer is Charlie Kaufman, Schenectady, New York, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. Ben is begging you. Begging you. Anomalisa. Director of photography, Lance Accord, Buffalo 66, Lost in Translation, Marie Antoinette. Music is Carter Burwell. Fear with Marky Mark. Carol Three Kings, Big Lebowski, Listen to our Big Lebowski episode producers, Sandy Stern. Pump up the volume. Christian Slater, Ben's favorite.

SPEAKER_07 33:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 33:52

Little Rebel Radio action. Ooh, baby. Charlie Kaufman, the actor, Steve Golan, R.I.P. Spotlight, and Michael Stipe. Yes, Michael Stipe of REM. And many other folks. Star of this film, John Kusick. Craig. Say anything. High Fidelity. Paul is begging you. Begging you. Gross point blank. Cameron Diaz was Lottie, The Mask, Gangs of New York, Vanilla Sky. John Malkovich.

SPEAKER_06 34:23

Is he himself? I love that you sound like Dr.

SPEAKER_03 34:25

Evil every time you entertain John Malkovich.

SPEAKER_07 34:28

Also a bald representative.

SPEAKER_03 34:29

Thank you. I don't know if I'm talking about John Malkovich. Also a now who are you? Kermit. Kermit the Frog here.

SPEAKER_04 34:40

John Malkovich. I need to hear you say that.

SPEAKER_07 34:47

What am I supposed to say? That was good cadence. You had good Malkovich cadence. Do it again, please.

SPEAKER_06 34:55

Oh, see if I'll hear it in the editing. You can edit it.

SPEAKER_08 34:58

Hello, I'm Michael York for the Review Review Theatre and star of Austin Powers and Megiddo the Omega Code 2. Presenting that thing that Rob said that Paul couldn't hear, but with the volume turned up. John Malkovich Thank you. I'm Michael Yawk.

SPEAKER_07 35:22

Good night. Back to the program. Rob's Malkovich is better than yours. No shit. No, it's not. Your cadence was more right.

SPEAKER_10 35:31

Uh John Malkovich was played by himself. Weirdly, not me. Rounders paid that man. He's smiley.

SPEAKER_07 35:39

I love that movie. No, so do I. I would love to bring that. I haven't watched in a while, but back in my like heyday of playing poker all the time, I love that movie. I had it on repeat for sure. I've seen that movie 10 or 12 times.

SPEAKER_10 35:50

Have you seen Rounders? Nope. Fun, very entertaining movie.

SPEAKER_07 35:54

Matt Damon, uh, Edward Norton, fun poker movie.

SPEAKER_10 35:58

And just moves right along. Yeah. Oh, did I say dangerous liaisons of Con Air? Because I'm gonna say Con Air, Con shit. Con Air. Con Air, he's so good in Con Air, too. He's fantastic. John Melkovich is a fantastic actor. By the way, the movie that they were trying to think of at Points, Willie Garson, was of mice and men. That's part of the reason why you bring Gary Sinise to the afterlife or whatever.

SPEAKER_07 36:21

Maybe Gary Sinise. Real question: is he actually friends with Charlie Sheen? Probably not.

unknown 36:26

I don't know. I don't care.

SPEAKER_06 36:27

I heard it was supposed to be somebody else, though.

SPEAKER_07 36:29

I imagine it was supposed to be Gary Sinise. That would make way more sense because they went, they had Steppenwolf together.

SPEAKER_10 36:34

I love that it was Charlie Sheen. I find it so random and great.

SPEAKER_06 36:37

But also with Charlie Kaufman being the writer and him saying Charlie all the time, it just sort of resonates in the metal for me.

SPEAKER_10 36:44

I never thought of that.

SPEAKER_06 36:46

Not that the average person watching the movie would think.

SPEAKER_10 36:49

Sure. Well, not the average person. But Rob does.

SPEAKER_07 36:53

Around you. Smarter than the average guy.

SPEAKER_10 36:55

That's why we have you here, baby. Catherine Keener was Maxine. Get out the 40-year-old virgin and out of sight. Orson Bean, R.I.P., Dr. Lester. I want to feel myself penetrate her way. Oh, you know what, Dr. Lester? Maybe this isn't the most appropriate. Jacob's ladder, the equalizer, but the second time. And Inner Space. Listen to our Inner Space episode. Whoopsie. Whoopsie. With MJ Sieber. A wonderful episode. A wonderful guest. Mary K Place was Floris. Girl Interrupted. The intern. The Rainmaker. W. Earl Brown. JM Inc. customer. Scream the master. Wes Craven's new nightmare. Lots of Wes Craven in this episode already. Yeah, that's a sign, baby. Somebody's got to bring me some craven. I'm craving it. I'm craven, craven.

SPEAKER_06 37:47

Alright. It's a low bar. Say Wes.

SPEAKER_10 37:51

Wes! That was great. Carlos Jacket? Jacket? Take off your parents. Jacket, Larry, Barbie, she's all that. Marriage story. Willie Garson was Guy in Restaurant. Groundhog Day. Welcome to the Rock. Welcome to the Rock.

SPEAKER_07 38:13

Who is Guy in Restaurant?

SPEAKER_10 38:14

The guy who goes up to Malkovich and he's like, I loved you in that movie.

SPEAKER_06 38:18

Oh, see, I was thinking Malkovich and like it was all John.

SPEAKER_10 38:22

Malkovich, Malcolm.

SPEAKER_07 38:23

Although some of them were just random bald dudes. By the way, if you like slow it down.

FUN Facts

SPEAKER_10 38:27

Willie Carson, not a great representative of the bald people in this movie. Thank you. Yeah. Oh, and you know, by the way, Willie Garson was also in Mars. Attacks exclamation point. Rob, sir. You should have some fun facts for us.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

Fun facts, fun facts, everybody.

SPEAKER_10 38:43

It's fun fact time.

SPEAKER_06 38:45

I think I was mentioning earlier that I didn't bother to look at my notes. So you're going to listen to me reading cold.

SPEAKER_10 38:52

We love that here.

SPEAKER_06 38:53

All right, well.

SPEAKER_10 38:54

Ben's teleprompter test. He writes them up, he serves them out.

SPEAKER_06 38:58

Which means you really could have a fuck you, San Diego, in here, and I'm screwed.

SPEAKER_10 39:03

I'll remember, you know, Ben, remember that for next time. It could be fun.

SPEAKER_07 39:06

Just so you know, this isn't live.

SPEAKER_06 39:08

So he's gonna edit all my mistakes, even though I'm putting them in on purpose.

SPEAKER_07 39:13

He's gonna edit you to say whatever he wants you to say.

SPEAKER_06 39:16

Rob hyphen, lead in fun facts, song. By the way, song, I think, is a note for him.

SPEAKER_10 39:27

You've been doing this long enough, you should know.

SPEAKER_06 39:30

Here is a list of the recognizable names and faces that appear, or voice act in this film. There's a lot of animation, I take it. Outside of the A4 mentioned, in no particular order, Octavia Spencer, Charlie Sheen, Pamela Hayden, Neil Ross, Lance Bangs, David Fincher, Andy Dick, Sean Penn. By the way, Andy Dick was in the crowd, I remember that. He was cheering. He loves puppets. Sean Penn, Brad Pitt, and Spike Jones himself. Oh, who is an actor himself? See, I added that in. I thought I was being spontaneous, and that's actually sort of what you wrote anyway. You could have been spontaneous and not said that. I messed up on the scene. I think you did great. Spontaneity wasn't there. Uh Charlie Kaufman had no backup actors in mind to play themselves in the title role if John Malkovich wouldn't appear. That would be really embarrassing if your movie is called Being John Malkovich and was Tom Cruise. You know?

SPEAKER_07 40:26

Yeah, I mean, to your point. Small small tangent. I I went on a fairly long drive recently and I listened to an audiobook called 1999, the best movie year ever. And it goes through each chapter, goes through a different movie, and there's a whole chapter on being John Malkovich. He tried hard like there was a whole push to get Malkovich was not on board to start to start this. Like he pushed back hard. There was a long campaign to get him on board. And he was gonna scrap the movie if he couldn't do it. Kaufman was. Wow. How much do they talk about mystery men? Surprisingly, not a chapter. What a weird one.

SPEAKER_06 41:05

This is a way of you explaining that joke you said earlier when you're talking about the movies from 99 and 19. I'm so weird. I don't know about this book.

SPEAKER_07 41:12

He knew the good ones, and he didn't give the uh well another good one we've done from '99 is Version Suicides. So you could listen to that episode, please, with Matt Foskett and Rachel Foskett and uh Harriet.

SPEAKER_02 41:25

He didn't mean cold.

SPEAKER_06 41:28

Okay, so cocaine. Uh there were no backup actors in mind if John Malkovich wouldn't appear in the film. And every time somebody offered to produce the film, on the condition that a different actor be used, Kaufman adamantly refused, even when Malkovich himself made the offer to produce. After two years of up and down development, Malkovich agreed. Finally, I'm adding that word in, to star. John Kusick told his agent to find the craziest, most unproducible script you can find. Trust me, I can write one of those.

SPEAKER_10 42:04

Yeah, we're ready. Like call any of us. That's the easy part. No problem.

SPEAKER_06 42:07

That's the easy part. It gave him this. Kusick loved it and followed development before requesting an audition and booking the lead role.

SPEAKER_07 42:17

I I I do want to add just because I listened to that whole fucking chapter on this. Cusack at that time was like in such a pit. He felt like his he felt like his career was like on this downside.

SPEAKER_06 42:27

He wasn't method acting, he was being himself.

SPEAKER_07 42:30

He he felt like he had started being he had started to get forgotten from the early 90s and 80s and like uh Gross point and High Fidelity, I feel like were such I mean, they're such important movies to me.

SPEAKER_10 42:43

Sure.

SPEAKER_06 42:43

One was High Fidelity 97?

SPEAKER_10 42:45

Yeah, something like that. And it was like two years before.

SPEAKER_06 42:48

Let's say he had but again, playing a super depressive character. Yeah. There might have been a theme. He may have been relating to this stuff.

SPEAKER_07 42:54

Yeah, they didn't necessarily want him at first, and then they came up, got accustomed to it.

SPEAKER_06 43:01

Until they got him right where they want him.

SPEAKER_10 43:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 43:04

Get him nice and depressed.

SPEAKER_10 43:05

Yeah, right where they want him, which was lower, which is difficult because he's fucking like 6'2 and a half or whatever, 225. He's a big guy.

SPEAKER_07 43:12

John Kusack is not small. He's not as tall as Jacob Alordi.

SPEAKER_10 43:16

He's not Jacob Alordy. He's a big dude. He's like a kickboxing master or some shit. Has anybody seen Rose Boy Black?

SPEAKER_06 43:24

No. He is. I should have. I'm from freaking Michigan. Like that. I mean, I remember, you know, way back in the day when I had HBO flipping through and seeing it coming on and just seeing bits of it, but I've never seen it from start to finish.

SPEAKER_10 43:38

I hope you and I have a chance to talk about it at some point soon. Because I really enjoy the shit out of that movie.

SPEAKER_06 43:43

Spike Jones said in an interview that when he was shopping the screenplay around Hollywood, an unspecified producer asked if he could possibly rewrite the film as being Tom Cruise. There you go.

SPEAKER_00 44:02

It's great.

SPEAKER_06 44:03

Oh my god. John Mulkovich himself suggested that Jones use the idea.

SPEAKER_10 44:12

If you were gonna go on a ride that was a good idea.

SPEAKER_06 44:14

I'm literally red right now. Like my face is hot from that. Like that's insane. Like that's one of the first people you can do. And you didn't even you didn't even yeah, but you didn't even respond in in a way that you don't even know what that's coming.

SPEAKER_10 44:25

I did actually. I think you didn't see me do it.

SPEAKER_06 44:30

I think you changed this as I said. Like this is an active Google diagram. I'm a chameleon.

SPEAKER_02 44:35

Camamialion. You are? Yeah. Chamamian.

SPEAKER_06 44:39

The name of John Kizak's character is a combined reference to Edward Gordon Craig and Bruce Schwartz. Schwartz is an accomplished American puppeteer, while Craig was a turn of the century theater artist who suggested that actors should be viewed as no more important than Marionettes because he was a fucking shithead dirtbag.

SPEAKER_10 45:01

Oh, you added that too, huh? All right. Taking some liberties.

SPEAKER_06 45:08

See what I put about. Then you got me again.

SPEAKER_10 45:15

Got me again. Everyone, we are gonna take a break shortly. You don't need your phone, Rob. We're done. The fun facts are over.

SPEAKER_06 45:23

I'm oh I'm not supposed to look at the log line.

SPEAKER_10 45:26

I that's this is me trying to trick you. Yes.

SPEAKER_06 45:28

Yeah, why did why did you send Rob the log line, Paul?

SPEAKER_10 45:30

Because I'm lazy.

SPEAKER_06 45:31

Because you're he I didn't read it, I just saw the word log line, so I moved on.

SPEAKER_10 45:36

Well, there's a line. It's gonna take a while to get in there and use it and make a log.

SPEAKER_06 45:40

Yeah, but but why was that on there?

SPEAKER_10 45:42

Pitch this movie to me. Give me the log line. Because whoever makes these sheets, we have an assistant because we're very rich, high production value that does this.

SPEAKER_07 45:54

Not a secretary. And if you're trying to say that I'm fucking her, then you're your engineer compiles all this for you as well.

SPEAKER_06 46:00

Yeah, engineer and your assistant.

SPEAKER_10 46:02

Engineer, publicist, assistant.

SPEAKER_07 46:04

Bruce burrito.

SPEAKER_10 46:06

Producer burrito.

SPEAKER_07 46:07

Gopher.

SPEAKER_10 46:08

He's a it's an anonymous person.

SPEAKER_07 46:10

Also a burrito.

SPEAKER_10 46:11

Okay, Rob. Bathroom break. We're going to the annals with the burrito. The burrito's coming into the annals. But first, as we're at, we've set a low bar. Do you want to try to pitch us a log line to this movie? Do you have any interest in that?

SPEAKER_07 46:25

One to two, three sentences of what this movie's about.

SPEAKER_06 46:30

I no joke, I forgot that this was part of it. Great. Because I I legit would have tried, because this is the kind of movie I would want to attempt. Well, again, have you ever wanted to be somebody else? That's in the movie.

SPEAKER_07 46:47

Yeah. I think that's just can I try? I haven't looked at it. Yeah, go for it. Give it a pitch. A downtrodden puppeteer in a dead-end marriage gets a new job at a boring company where he discovers a door which leads to being inside the head of famous actor John Malkovich. John Malkovich. And from there is exploited to use. Two verbose. Okay. But exploited to use.

SPEAKER_06 47:30

It's like you're telling the entire place.

SPEAKER_10 47:31

He so Ben, you got all the long lines throughout that rambling, nonsensical no points. And they got a mercy on your soul. Rob, you you enticed the shit out of me. I will say Ben got there eventually, but like too long didn't read. A puppeteer discovers a portal that leads literally into the head of John Malcolm.

SPEAKER_07 47:55

I mean, I will say sometimes these long lines d are verbose.

SPEAKER_10 47:59

They should be more more often than not, they should be more or less. Like they always feel kind of off.

SPEAKER_07 48:05

I mean, like that doesn't that doesn't give me enough conflict. Yeah. Because the con the conflict erupt uh is when his wife also discovers it's it's about status struggle, it's about class struggle in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_06 48:17

And you don't want to give away every twist. Because I feel like this movie is every 11 minutes, there's a twist. It it's yeah, but the person in love with whom and they just keep manipulating each other. This this movie's about manipulation ultimately.

SPEAKER_07 48:33

Yes, but this is where you get into the the conundrum of between the creative and the marketer. Right. Because the marketing person's like, it's a door that leads into John Malkovich, that's in the log line. And the if I'm the creator, I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. That's the that's what that's the huge reveal. Like, we can't we can't spoil that right now. Yeah, and they're gonna be like, no, we're absolutely spoiling that right now.

SPEAKER_10 48:53

I do like that that's all they tell you. Yeah. Like the log line is basically here's the concept. How do you get there? You're in somebody else's brain. And luckily, the movie tells us and answers almost every potential question in some way, to some level. You can into it a lot.

Brought To You By

SPEAKER_07 49:10

Well, we should take a break. We should. We have to take we have to go to the low bar, which is down at 9.1 Avenue. Like, seven minutes away.

SPEAKER_10 49:20

Oh, put his finger up at me.

SPEAKER_06 49:23

I try to catch you. I saw it coming.

SPEAKER_10 49:26

We're so fucking old. No cap.

SPEAKER_06 49:28

No, no cap. No, no, it's 9.1. That's that's way funnier. You bartend at the low bar, right?

SPEAKER_10 49:36

Yeah. This episode is brought to you by the low bar. We'll be back.

SPEAKER_01 49:40

Oh, you've got your ad written already. Four and five or something.

SPEAKER_07 49:51

We just got back from the low bar. Sorry.

SPEAKER_10 49:53

Well, welcome back to fantasy footballers. Enjoy your breakfast burrito brought to you by Ben Burris. Uh, it's the review review. I'm just fucking with you. We're here with Rob Weldon, author, historian, the ominous music man.

SPEAKER_06 50:06

I didn't even talk about my crap. I mean, I I I mentioned a couple titles.

SPEAKER_07 50:10

The ominous is a Detroit Lions fan, which is the most important thing.

SPEAKER_10 50:14

I'm Lulu Blue, man.

unknown 50:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 50:16

But I I just want to say, as a team who is stuck with action green, and look at me, look at me. I have a jersey that is action green.

SPEAKER_07 50:26

I have it's more like the Nickelodeon slime.

SPEAKER_10 50:29

It's hideous. It's like both are correct. It's like Good Burger. Both are horrifying. Both are both are correct.

SPEAKER_00 50:36

That is dangerous.

SPEAKER_10 50:37

But the but shut it down. Honolulu blue is like one of the great colors in sports.

SPEAKER_07 50:44

But it's also Detroit and they call it Honolulu Blue. Nothing was more beautiful than the Seahawks against the Buccaneers, both in their throwbacks. That was one of the most gorgeous games to watch.

SPEAKER_10 50:54

Creamsicle's pretty dope. I mean, our throwback. I like that cream.

SPEAKER_07 50:57

Our throwback blue are beautiful. Creamsoda.

SPEAKER_10 51:01

Me and Action Green or Creamsicle sounds like a living nightmare. I mean, just it doesn't. I mean, look at my I'm too, I can't pull that color off. Huh? I'm a winter.

SPEAKER_00 51:11

Huh?

SPEAKER_10 51:16

Dunk that baby. Fucking dunk that baby.

SPEAKER_07 51:19

Do you know what game we're gonna play? I forgot already. Yeah. It is a game based on an on actors in movies.

SPEAKER_06 51:26

So As long as you're okay with beer and headlights, let's go.

SPEAKER_07 51:30

It happens. So this is a game called Cinephile. So you're gonna pull a card, you'll have an actor on it, and you'll say that actor's name, and then read the movie that's on the card. That's your freebie. Then Paul will say a movie that actors in, I'll say a movie that actor's in, you maybe will say an actor that movie's in, and whoever doesn't name it. An actor Are you doubting him? A movie that actors in. What did I say? Actor that movie's in?

SPEAKER_10 51:52

Yeah. Wow. I mean, if you're inside, have you ever looked at somebody in one pair of eyes and seeing two pairs of eyes looking bad and only feeling desire and lust for you? I mean, that's where we're at. The actors in the movie actor.

SPEAKER_07 52:08

If you pull John Malkovich, I think we should just click on end it ended.

SPEAKER_05 52:12

Paul John Malkovich. If that's who Paul? Paul. Paul? So here?

SPEAKER_06 52:20

I do. I will pull a card and I won't tell you the movie that No, you'll say the actor in the movie. Oh, I say both.

SPEAKER_10 52:26

Yeah. Yeah. And I'll say another actor that movie's in.

SPEAKER_06 52:32

So here's the the interesting part about the creamsicle colored um card is that it's hard to read the font. I can read the Halle Berry part. Okay. I can't read the movie they're giving giving me as a guinea.

SPEAKER_07 52:47

Yeah, it's it's it's a terrible font.

SPEAKER_06 52:49

There it is. Right. And I can say it. The last Boy Scout.

SPEAKER_07 52:54

Great. Swordfinish. Monster's Ball. Same movie. No.

SPEAKER_05 53:02

Oh, that's not her. You want to try it one more time?

SPEAKER_06 53:05

Oh, Double of Seven. She was in James Bond.

SPEAKER_10 53:08

Oh, let's say that's that's good enough. Yeah. Die Another Day is the movie. I was going to say that. I'll say Catwoman.

Cinephile Round

SPEAKER_07 53:15

I will stay in that same genre and say X-Men. Moving on.

SPEAKER_10 53:20

I opened a door for you. When you're saying moving on, do you mean you're going to take the sequel? Okay.

SPEAKER_06 53:26

That's uh Okay, well, Rob, it is the next X-Men, but it's next X-Men.

SPEAKER_07 53:32

X-Men. XXX-Men. XX. You know those sequels.

SPEAKER_10 53:37

By the way, listen to our Patreon, the adult review review. You'll really enjoy our 99-minute dive into XXX Men.

SPEAKER_06 53:48

You want to talk about getting into the annals? If there isn't a Triple X-Men, I'd be shocked. There is a Triple X Men with Vin Diesel. And Jane's addiction was on Triple X Records, their first album. Is that something? That's a real thing. Is that something?

SPEAKER_10 54:02

Is Vin Diesel addicted to someone named Jane? So forget about it, Code. Is Jane someone in his family?

SPEAKER_07 54:09

Do you but do you know what happens to a toad when he gets struck by lightning?

SPEAKER_10 54:12

The same thing that happens to everything else. Oh, okay. Great. Great line. Eat floor. It's only appropriate, Rob. You brought this movie to us. What was your first experience, if you recall? How would you have rated it then, if you recall? And your current viewing and your current rating.

SPEAKER_06 54:32

That's that's good. Um I wish I could say I saw this in the theaters and I had not. But I would say by 2001 I'd seen it. And I'll admit, the first time I saw it, it went over my head. I just know I liked it. It was weird, it was quirky, it made me think, and I'm like, you know what? I need to be more sober when I watch this the next time and take it seriously. And it got better. And then it came on again on like HBO or something, and it got better. And every time I saw it, so literally it probably went from maybe a 7.5 to an eight to an 8.5 until it hit 9.5.5, 4.5 to a 4.5.

SPEAKER_10 55:18

Okay. Yeah.

First & Current Experiences

SPEAKER_06 55:19

So it it went to about a 9.1, and it is like the last movie what we did in Shadows. It's one of the movies that I use as like conceptually, I need to be on a different level with my writing than what's popular. It's one of the most creative movies I've ever seen in my life. And it changes. And I think I said this earlier. They do this omniscient thing where you kind of get every person's experience at some other point. Like it's not all through John Kusek's eyes. You get to see other behind-the-scenes stuff. You get other perspectives. So it switches to um why am I blinking on Cameron's Cameron Diaz. Lottie. Lottie. It switches to Lottie's point of view for a moment, and you start feeling for her with her personal issues going on. And then it switches in, then you almost start feeling sorry for Maxine. Yes, you almost start feeling thank you so much because you can see I'm struggling. No, yeah, but I I've been with you. But you almost start feeling sorry for her. But she's a horrible person.

SPEAKER_07 56:27

But they all are. I mean Lottie is broken in a different way. Lottie is the only one that I feel like. Oh, sorry, and we're getting ahead of ourselves.

SPEAKER_06 56:33

But uh Lottie's the only one that I feel but she is still because she's so confused about her own identity.

SPEAKER_07 56:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 56:40

She's so broken in a sense. I'm using scare quotes when I say the word broken. She's still a a person and a human and is she still growing.

SPEAKER_10 56:47

She's evolved.

SPEAKER_06 56:50

But because it keeps evolving, you see from each perspective as they grow in a new twist, because someone else is now as control of John Malkovich and whatnot.

SPEAKER_10 56:59

It just does Catherine Keener ever go in? No. I don't think so. Isn't that something that I mean that that'll be something that's interesting?

SPEAKER_06 57:07

Because she's the one that wants to control other people. I agree.

SPEAKER_10 57:10

And she's impressed when I think she even says, I'm going to control the person that's controlling John Malkovich, right?

SPEAKER_07 57:17

And that's her power. What's his name again? Craig, Craig? What's Craig?

SPEAKER_10 57:20

QSAC. Yeah, she says, I'm going to control Craig and he's going to control Malkovich and Craig. Schwartz? Suarez. Suarez?

SPEAKER_07 57:27

Schwartz. Suarez? Wartz. I have no idea what you're talking about. Wartz. I have no idea what you're saying to me right now. Venero Schwartz?

SPEAKER_06 57:34

So your original rating out of five? Was a 9.1 rating. And now your current. Okay, so if I tell you You have to.

SPEAKER_10 57:46

The format dictates it. It's a low bar, Rob.

SPEAKER_06 57:49

If I tell you 9.3, you're going to assume that it only grew by 0.2. But you're so you're what I'm saying though is part of it grew, well, another part of it dropped, but the part that grew grew more.

SPEAKER_10 58:05

So but so you're not at a 4.25, you're at a 4.5 out of 5. In the aggregate. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 58:13

Let's say I went from 4.6 to 4.7. How's that?

SPEAKER_10 58:16

So 4.75, which you can do because that is the liberty rule for a guest. So 4.75 out of 5. That's a high that's a very high score. High bar.

SPEAKER_06 58:26

This might be the highest you'll ever see me rate a movie. It's not joking. It's not the highest. I don't have a higher.

SPEAKER_10 58:31

There's no like 5 out of 5, 10 out of 10, 100 out of 100. Not for me. Okay. Is this your favorite movie? I'm right now thinking it is. Holy shit.

SPEAKER_00 58:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 58:41

I also want to mention as I'm about to talk about my part of this, so much of this movie to me, I feel, is about the LGBTQIA plus folks in the world.

SPEAKER_07 58:54

In a time which in 1999 was kind of on the precipice of doing more of that with Boys Don't Cry. Yeah. Like there was there especially talking about like where we're talking about about trans people, like this movie and Boys Don't Cry were on the forefront of sort of getting into that conversation.

SPEAKER_10 59:10

Yeah. I just want to say we're like three straight white guys, like doing our best to unpack a movie that I think is so Charlie Kaufman and Spike Jones. So I I think this perspective, regardless of how people feel about the source, is really valuable. And I think the story is great. I think the characters are great. And I as we were talking about, and something I was going to mention anyway, I think that Lottie has an epiphany and becomes like a different person. And again, to your point, Rob, like there's an evolution of this character that happens throughout because of this at points fucking literal cage that she's kept in.

SPEAKER_04 59:54

Literal, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 59:55

Yeah. And the monkey that's on her back. And like it's just Crazy how intentionally visual this movie is. And fucking A if I don't love Spike Jones.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 1:00:06

I I want to say also, I've never seen this movie sober. First time, now time, whenever time. This was kind of one of those movies that I'm like, I enjoy this movie while I'm stoned because I really start asking myself questions.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:22

And I think the it's the only time I can think of where I saw a non-animated movie give the perspective of the monkey. The flashback of the monkey.

SPEAKER_10 1:00:33

Oh my god, that was okay, we're gonna get into that.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:36

And now the monkey is a character like unto itself.

SPEAKER_10 1:00:41

Well, and it gives legitimacy to everything Cameron Diaz was saying about the empathy for this animal. It's like childhood trauma. But I would have rated this movie. Having seen it a couple times before this, I I saw it on cable or some such, and then saw it a few years later. I would have given it a four out of five, and this is the problem I have. Is it puppet puppet donks? Is it Malkovich's or is it I love New York hats?

SPEAKER_07 1:01:12

All all strong choices. Can somebody help me? You gotta pick. This is a personal problem.

SPEAKER_10 1:01:19

I still at this point give this movie four puppet donks. Great.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:25

I think that for me, I'm gonna go back on mine 4.7 bytes turnpikes.

SPEAKER_10 1:01:32

That's good. That's good. That's really that's inspired. Well done. I I just that's my name. I th I think the movie well done. I think this movie does anything as well or better than almost anything I can think of from a pretty great year of movies.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:54

It's a strong year.

SPEAKER_10 1:01:55

And so I'm gonna give it a four. I'm sure some of the writing goes over my head or whatever it is. I just think some of it, and maybe I'm wrong considering all the audience scores, like it feels almost too abstract or too off the wall or too non sequitur that like at points I'm like, I'm laughing, but I also get lost, but I also get confused, like I think some of the characters do.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:16

Okay, so there's a spot where um he's standing at the Jersey Turnpike and a car goes by and he he's struggling. Um Malkovich is. Are you talking about the can? And the can. And then how would they know the back of his head that could be Malkovich? And they yell at trash. You know, like they wouldn't care.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:37

Whatever they say, Malkovich. So good. Was that in the situation? But they did that something else.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:42

They did that for you because you don't want that going over your head. Uh it's very literal, it's hitting you in the head.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:47

Alright, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna jump in here. I I wanna say I think this movie Well done. I think this movie has a lot of depth and nuance. And I don't, I'm just gonna preface this. I don't think we're gonna be able to talk about it as in-depth because I think we'll be here all night. We're out of the annals at this point. But just like I I just think that there's so much in this movie to to dig into that I think we we can talk about a lot of it, but I feel like if we it's it's a deeply philosophical movie, and I think if we were to go too deep, we're gonna be here all night. Have you felt that way always? About what? The movie.

SPEAKER_10 1:03:19

Like from your first greeting to now.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:21

So you clearly you feel that way now. I first saw this movie uh when my brother purchased it on Divid. Oh, Divd. And I love Doved. I currently own I currently own that copy because I stole it from my brother Derek McFadden. I stole this one from Frank.

SPEAKER_10 1:03:38

Or PR in this case.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:41

As he's listening to this, he's like, oh, there's where my copy went. But it's DVD, so why do you care? Did it look like shit? What? Did it look like shit? It actually didn't look bad. Great. I was like, I went into it thinking because I had watched The Dawn of the Dead on DVD, and I was like, that looked like shit. But this one did not. But anyway, watching it back then, I remember I probably watched this in high school. Um, and I was in a weird phase because I was a weird kid and I was a weird drama nerd, and I was immediately like, this is fucking weird. I love it. Like I love I I didn't understand the the nuance to it, but I knew that it felt unique and it felt different, and it was it was doing something that I hadn't seen before. And I've had it on DVD, I've probably watched it like a couple times since then, but not in a very, very long time. The the Malkovich scene in the restaurant is the one that I always like reference in my head. Completely forgot about it.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:34

It's so funny because I do remember the first time watching the movie, and you're feeling the anticipation for when he crawls into that tunnel. Oh, yeah. Like, you're what are they gonna do? What's gonna happen? Like, is it because again, I played in bands in like high school and college, so it's like feedback is a feedback loop. Is it gonna implode? Is there gonna be an explosion?

SPEAKER_07 1:04:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:55

You know, and and yes, it's one of the most visually striking and auditorially striking scenes in like cinema history, in my opinion. Yeah, but I felt like it was a cockback too. Because they did later go into his sub his psyches, his that's where I felt that would have happened. Do you know see what I'm saying? Yeah, but you gotta hold on to it. He didn't go in, he didn't go into his we'll get there. I I I think that I I see what you're saying.

SPEAKER_10 1:05:24

I like that it becomes infinity. I don't know.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:27

Uh back then, uh I think I would have uh I mean I wasn't a smart enough kid or creative enough to come up with a very good scoring system. Kids are dumb, but kids are dumb. Um no cap. But I probably would have sat at four. Uh I watched this last night on DVD, uh, and it didn't again, it didn't look bad. Um I was like kind of forgot how the majority of this movie went. Like I forgot how it progressed. I just remembered the like flashy points of it of like this is a door that goes into John Malkovich, and that's kind of all I remembered. But I kind of forgot the nuanced character bits, and I really found the uh the attention to like identity and how you identify and how being someone else can like help you be become yourself is a is a really interesting thing that I think that wasn't a strong part of the conversation, global conversation, as it is now. And now like you have people who are coming out talking about like, for instance, DD, which has been around forever, RPGs in general have been around forever, but people now coming out and saying, like, yeah, I played that RPG and I played it as a woman because I didn't realize that I wanted to be a woman. That's why I played that game. And these are the conversations that we're having now because it feels more of a safe place to have it. Um and I I guess I just didn't really I didn't see that the first time, and this time I'm like immediately drawn to that part of the conversation. So I'm sitting at a four old people inside of me. I actually am four people inside of a Ben suit. So in case you're wondering, uh we I've seen that before. We're good. And uh I it's only out of four for me because for me, there are I I feel like Charlie Kaufman and Spike Jones to a degree um get a little for me, get a little better in their writing in a few movies.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:29

So you like ad adaptation a little bit better than uh I I think I like adaptation a little bit more.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:34

I like Eternal Sunshine a little bit more. Eternal Sunshine's a perfect movie for me. Yeah. But I I still love so much of what this movie is doing and saying, and I think Spike Jones, as a director, like really hits it out of the park with her.

SPEAKER_10 1:07:45

Um what is it about folks who come from some level of music video direction being able to and like art, film and documentary, like really understanding how to make that writing sing is I think I have an answer for that, and I think it's because they do so much in camera.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:04

Yeah. And they're willing to and they're willing to go like highly theatrical in camera with effects or with camera tricks or what have you. That that would be my first thought and guess.

SPEAKER_10 1:08:15

Okay. Well, we're at a 4.75 turnpikes for puppet donks. Yep. And for old people inside of me. Old people inside of you. I think it's time to talk about the movie. Which we which we d do with in the streaming version anyway. I get the FBI anti-piracy warning, and I'm like, what the fuck? Like, like I feel like I'm not used to seeing that, and I'm just kind of a level like, I won't download a car or a house or anything. Like, it's all good.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:01

I won't download a mouth coverage. It's weird to have that on streaming.

SPEAKER_10 1:09:05

I felt like it was very strange to see that, so I thought I should mention it. And then the movie starting out with the Marionette show with the puppet with the sweet ass and the mirror break.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:16

What's the who's the composer? What's the music that's playing? Anyone? Oh, I can't remember. I don't know. Is it a is it a Bach? Is it Bach? I don't know. I'm I'm asking.

SPEAKER_10 1:09:26

Hello everyone. This is Paul from the Edit. Ben, is that a baby got Bach joke? Back to the program. I don't know enough. It's Chopin. Is it Chopin? Frederick fucking Chopin. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:39

Maybe it is back to Dr. Evil again.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:43

It's beautiful though. It's a beautiful opening.

SPEAKER_10 1:09:45

I love the marionette. It's hypnotizing. Yeah. The way that these puppeteers are working these marionettes is there is a level of this where you're like, fuck, these people maybe are like underappreciated, I guess. Should I know who famous fucking great puppeteers are? This is amazing.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:00

Do you know Bruce Pareto?

Start The Movie (conversation)

SPEAKER_10 1:10:01

I do. Move and all that. He will he become a whole celebrity. Will he become the Malkovich of Puppeteers of this movie? Is this real? Are you real?

SPEAKER_07 1:10:13

Does he want four old people inside of him?

SPEAKER_10 1:10:16

You can't see this audience when a look has been exchanged. The movie makes it very clear that Malkovich is like gonna be this puppet. The foreshadow that Cusack has to control someone. And even if you just read the log line, it's like, yeah, this is about somebody controlling entering the mind of John Malkovich.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:36

I do think the way this movie starts with um the puppeteer and like see the way that they present John Cusack, he just looks so depressing. So sad. He, you know, again, post-hy fidelity.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:50

I mean, that's the continuation.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:51

But he got Laurel back. It made me think like if you've seen Parks and Rec when Ben is making his place an REM song. And he's like, Would a depressed person make this and holding? I'm like, oh, that's based on this entire movie.

SPEAKER_10 1:11:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:05

I've been working on this for two weeks.

SPEAKER_10 1:11:07

Stand in the Which is an REM song. And this movie was produced by Michael Stein.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:13

So yeah, he's depressed. Like, and the way the filter, the color filter uh is like, it just feels dark and depressing. Their apartment is in a basement, it's got this low ceiling, and I've lived in basements, and you're like, that it just already feels like they are oppressed by whatever life choices they've made, and their animals that they live in their house are just loud and they're omnipresent and not happy. You immediately can tell this is not a happy situation. Because he wakes up in his bed and his wife is leaving, and it's he's sitting there eating breakfast with a monkey. And it's weird, it's unique, but it's also like there's a lot of foreshadowing.

SPEAKER_10 1:11:48

It's so random. Like there's a bird, and it's he he doesn't have a real job, and he's jealous of this puppeteer that's doing this thing on a bridge, or and he's like giant Emily Dickinson. Yeah, and he's like, Oh, this fucking charlatan, this press chasing son of a bitch.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:04

It's exactly what he does anyway, once he gets a chance.

SPEAKER_10 1:12:08

Yeah, correct. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Like the first thing he does is is jettison John Malkovich's life.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:16

Instead of doing these like horny puppet shows on the side of the street for porn for kids. I would have punched him too.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:24

He walks in the door of the apartment, she goes, again. Porn for kids, right?

SPEAKER_07 1:12:29

Porn for kids. You should be able to watch a little bit of porn for kids. If it's puppets. And like his wife runs this pet shop, and so that's why they have all these adopted animals. The way that they just costume and present her, too. It's like Cameron Diaz is easily one of the hottest women of the 90s, into the two, like without a doubt. And they have done their damnedness to try to make her unattractive. It didn't work. Right. But I would also say this is one of her best performances.

SPEAKER_10 1:12:59

She's really good in this, she's really good in vanilla sky.

SPEAKER_07 1:13:02

Yeah. So that's she's good in vanilla sky too. Yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_10 1:13:05

There's a couple like specific performance. I love the specific newspapers he's reading too, and what he's reading about.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:11

When he looks through the one ads, there is a giant photograph of Cole Chamber, and I worked that album. So when I saw that photo, I'm like, hey, Cole Chamber, I forgot that was there. I haven't watched this movie in like five years until yesterday. And I'm like, I forgot Cole Chamber was in this.

SPEAKER_10 1:13:29

I love that like it's such a small world. Like it that's kind of what this movie is also saying is like there's a level of we're all the same. There's also a thing, Ben, that hit me that you were touching on, I think a little, where there's a level of power, I think that the artist has that sometimes don't even know that we have, where it's like, be anyone, be anything, feel anyone, feel anything, like a level of freedom, and there's such a power in that. And one of the people you think of where it's like, oh, who's like a really brave, unafraid performer? It's uh it's like, oh, John Malkovich. There I think there's a level of like that's part of the high that these people get is that this person is so confident in himself.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:13

Yeah. I mean, we're getting ahead of ourselves in terms of plot, but I but I just want to piggyback on that just because you got to keep the the bar low at the office here. I think it is interesting that like his puppet that he's his like main puppet that he's created is just a version of himself. Yeah. Right. And I think what's interesting about that is that even when he becomes Malkovich, the puppet he's controlling as Malkovich is himself. And he can't control himself. He can't. And he can't. That's right. It's a it's a really fascinating like investigation, again, into identity. You know, it's a very like this and everybody's gonna get something different from different places that this movie takes you. But it does take us to floor seven and a half? Seven and a half. Seven and a half. Between seven and eight. Uh-huh. Not between six and seven.

SPEAKER_10 1:15:03

No, seven and eight. Okay. I love this, you know, six foot two man with like a ponytail that doesn't have the confidence to present or control himself the way he would like to. He just kind of bumbles through situations, even with the secretary here, who's great. Mary K. Lace is so great.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:22

I went to get my haircut today and I was checking and I was checking in, and she's like, name? And I said, Ben, and she said, huh? And I said, Ben, and she was like, I can't hear you. And I was like, I was literally standing like hair and I was like, Ben. Wartz. Yeah, and it felt very much straight out of this movie. And I'm like, how do you how do you not hear me? But it reminded me this opening where like he comes into this world, the secretary and the boss, Mr. Lester, are kind of in this like other world. Is this for saying Mo, Dr. Mo? Mo Lester.

SPEAKER_10 1:15:56

Oh, that's a crappy joke. That's no good. Cut that out. That's so insane. Go back to your island.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:02

Go back to your island, Paul.

SPEAKER_10 1:16:03

This move by the way, in terms of Simpsons, Spike Jones and Charlie Kaufman clearly love The Simpsons. Yeah, this is so. And they love Mel Brooks so hard. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:12

Yeah. That sort of like throwing the because he's the straight man in this like sequence of being thrown into this world, it felt very Brazil to me in some ways, where you're like the banality. Yeah, it's a but we don't really know what this place does. And also like they're acting very um high, like they're they're they're on a different level and acting like he doesn't know what's going on, and yes, he's acting completely normal.

SPEAKER_10 1:16:34

He's the strange one, yeah. To them. It's crazy. When when QSAC gets through the secretary and gets to the boss who we find out is 105 years old, which is crazy. They start talking about the secretary and the doctor, Dr. Lester says, I'm not banging her, if that's what you're implying. And just like that, he's making all these weird comments and sentence fragments and things about internal monologue and the joke he makes about the low overhead, because that the 7.5 floor, the the ceilings are five feet. Five feet something.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:12

Yeah, I mean, and what's funny is like everything else in the space is not scaled down except for like maybe like the doors and the uh windows and yeah, but like the chairs and tables, they seem normal. The desks. Yes. So you're just like stuffed in this little tiny space, which is such a interesting choice.

SPEAKER_10 1:17:31

It feels like a comment on kind of the nine to five office job, like the way that you feel. The oppression. Yeah. Yeah, and and it's kind of what I've what I came to in the last Matrix movie. The comment in that movie or the feeling of that movie is everything is a construct of a construct of a construct. Everything is a prison. You didn't fall asleep. I fell asleep. I did during Revolution. Sleep is a construct. But that's I mean, the internet's been dead for over a decade.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:59

But Al Gore is still alive.

SPEAKER_10 1:18:01

What? Are you is that real?

SPEAKER_07 1:18:03

The Al Gore rhythm is still alive.

SPEAKER_10 1:18:05

Is this real?

SPEAKER_07 1:18:06

Al Gore. I listened to the Al Gore rhythm.

SPEAKER_10 1:18:09

Sir, it's a copy of your book sold. We'll let's celebrate. Yay. 1999. The or the presidency we could have had. The orientation video. Yeah. We kind of did, but the orientation video. Yeah. Uh and meeting Catherine Keener.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:29

What's also funny too is like there's moments in this movie that are very 1999, but also are very I say that in terms of language and in terms of content at times, but also feel purposefully offensive. Not even offensive, but like purpose, like purposely um the fact that they're watching this training video and it has uh like a little person and that's like the Oh, yeah, yeah. But like that that reasoning is it's pandering, it's weird, and it's clearly fake. Yeah. Which she tells, yeah, anyway. I just think this movie does things that uh you can do it in 1999, but also on purpose. And it's not like the language and stuff is on purpose. It's not um yeah, it's hard to say it without saying what language they use, but you you guys get what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_10 1:19:13

Yeah, I get what you're saying. I get it, you know, they're talking, the communications, the the papers and the trash and the cash, right? You get what I'm saying. Put your pants back on. What are you doing? Why do you do this every time Rob's here? I know.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:33

Does he do this in the bar? Just at the low bar.

SPEAKER_10 1:19:37

Rob, do you feel like Cameron Diaz is actively saying to John Cusack, like, I want to have a baby.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 1:19:43

Like you have a you have a job thing, we're like stable. Like, let's have a and they're in a situation where it's like maybe you shouldn't consider that anyway. But there's a level of me that feels like Cusack is saying that because he thinks he can do better. Because he thinks he because he met Catherine Keaton. Absolutely. Okay.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:00

Yeah, yeah. Well, he's infatuated with Maxine, and I think it's to the to the point of discomfort as a viewer, it's like, dude, just stop, back up. Yeah. And I think it's it's like it he I think the it's more her energy than anything. Like, I mean, obviously she's a beautiful person, but I think he's like confidence.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:18

Well, whatever he's a puppeteer. Yeah, he's a puppeteer. He wants to be able to puppet that. He I think he feels like he's already been puppeting, puppeteering his wife. Now he wants a bigger challenge.

SPEAKER_10 1:20:30

That's what the puppets are telling us in the story when he hangs up the wife puppet, even when he makes the Catherine Keener puppet.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:37

He has a sex doll. That's what he wants. He thinks that he should be but that's what he's like acting really little. But he the way he makes it is like he's treating it like a sex doll. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you.

SPEAKER_10 1:20:49

No, you didn't know you're good. He clearly wants to, he thinks he's better than everybody, smarter than everybody, that his art is higher than everybody, and he's gonna manipulate. That's what turns him on. The idea of puppeting Catherine Keener or puppeting Malkovich. Well, it's funny, like he's going through these files are quick, and they're insane, and the secretary woman appreciates it immediately and speaks very clearly about what she wants, and then I comes before you, which is so good when she says that to him. Like she sees, oh, those fingers could work magic. Yeah, I comes before you. And it's just somebody who appreciates again, like she's nasty about it and shit, and like not great timing, but she notices this natural thing that he has that he wants to be appreciated for.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:40

And she's legally deaf, right? It's gotta be. There's something going on there. I haven't looked at the law.

SPEAKER_10 1:21:47

I haven't looked at the law. If you hear sentences as this, are you deaf? Is that what that is?

SPEAKER_07 1:21:55

I don't know what you're saying. I have no idea what you're saying to me right now. The what? What? The marathon? What's your name? The what? So he drops a file though behind the wall, and this is the inciting incident, as they told me in screenplay class.

SPEAKER_10 1:22:09

Oh, dude. Right after he says, the reason I want to be a puppeteer is so I can feel like I'm in someone else's skin.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:15

Yep.

SPEAKER_10 1:22:16

Controlling a human being. And the idea already that you know something is immediately weird with Dr. Lester is he's like, I'm 105 years old. Like, what the fuck is going on here? And when he admits to Catherine Keener that he's a puppeteer, she says, check and it cuts.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 1:22:33

Like that's what happened. Oh, yeah. She's like, I'm out of here.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:37

And she's clearly like, you know, she's just interested in anyone who can get her off. Right. Like she's she she's she's very confident. She's like, I'm here, what can you do for me? She wants to get above her status as well if she can. What are you gonna do for me? Right. And he is not gonna what he's not gonna do anything for her. Right. At least as presented at the beginning, he's not, he's just he's too low.

SPEAKER_10 1:23:02

He can't do anything for her. The bar is too low, his status is too low. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:05

I mean all about low bars. Great. Even Lottie's status is too low. Right.

SPEAKER_10 1:23:10

And she's more attracted to Lottie. And Lottie is very attracted to her. And when we find the door, and you were talking about Rob, the sound effects that happen in this movie. This is what I really did not remember about this movie at all. When QSAC is first in Malkovich's head, and you hear him eating, okay. Put the peanut butter away.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:34

Yeah. You you should cut that in. If you can cut out a moment from that episode, you should cut it out. Or from maybe from uh Good Burger, because uh there's some great eating. Hate that movie. Have you seen the movie Good Burger?

SPEAKER_10 1:23:51

No. Good don't shut it down every time. Shut it down. Anyway, yeah, the ASMR, the eating the toast and drinking the coffee, seeing himself in the mirror, shaving the face, feeling the sunshine.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:04

And he's good looking bald man. I prefer him ordering bath mats, though.

SPEAKER_10 1:24:10

Dude, it's so wonderful. I've the whole thing is like so funny when he's in the cab, and that when the cabbie tells him, like, you know, the movie where he played the jewel thief, and and Malkovich always so polite in this movie says, Oh, I wasn't in a movie about a jewel thief. Yeah. And the cabbie's like, No, yeah, you were. I saw that. You were in that. You were in that. That was you. That was you. Okay.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:33

Like looks at him like, no, that was that was definitely you.

SPEAKER_10 1:24:36

And then just the hard cut to the Twin Towers after John Cusack gets spit out.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:40

I did notice that. But this is where the movie, like just scraping the surface of what's to come. Like you're like, oh, what a weird fucking movie. This dude just went into John Makovich's head. And that's just like the tip.

SPEAKER_10 1:24:56

And Katherine Keener is explained this whole thing, and she gestures to John Cusack like John Cusack's like, what do I do now? And Katherine Keener's like, fucking jump out of the window, fucking crazy person. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:25:08

I mean, what what would you say if someone said that to you? Chanel?

SPEAKER_10 1:25:16

Her it says so much to like her immediate idea is how do we exploit this? And doesn't Cusack say, should we not exploit it?

SPEAKER_07 1:25:25

Right? Yeah, it's interesting how um and you brought this up, which I hadn't really thought of. Um, that the like the underlying conversation in this whole movie is status and about money. Which I think is uh access, power. Yeah. But like that they're using this to make money. W why wouldn't you? Yeah, and it's funny with uh with how much uh Paul just punched the microphone. Hold on.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:55

But with it with uh inflation, it's just interesting they're only charging 200 bucks to spend 15 minutes in his head. I mean, now that would be$10,000, 15 minutes in his head. I would charge more, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 1:26:10

They're charging next to nothing for the ride of the.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:15

And by the way, that reminds me, all the people in line queued up, they're only sending in one every 15 minutes. So, like, there's six hours of line right there. There's 20 people, 25 people in line.

SPEAKER_10 1:26:28

And they're all like basic ass, white every man, every single person in line.

SPEAKER_07 1:26:36

It feels very like, yeah, like uh nickel, nickel porn uh nickel.

SPEAKER_10 1:26:41

Yeah, I agree. There's a level of do you do you wanna be the absolute you know apex of if you actually tried or had a passion or whatever, if you weren't just like sitting in your recliner, blah blah blah. And like, could you I I think it says a lot when they're first customer when when they say, Who would you want to be? Uh when Maxine and QSAC start the business and the guy's like John Malkovich was my second choice. Yeah, there's a level of that that I think is trying to say a lot.

SPEAKER_06 1:27:13

Like, and the fact that QSAC lets Diaz in first, and the also interesting that like people will that first customer think, okay, well, go on in. And they just unquestioningly do it. They don't see, oh, don't worry, it's dark, you'll you'll be all right. Like, there's nothing, okay. I'm gonna crawl into a dark hole with no light.

SPEAKER_07 1:27:35

Yeah, and like poop floor. It feels very like Alice down the rabbit. Definitely absolutely thought the same thing. Yeah. They are pandering to the same people that they are in some degree, like the desperate people who don't want to be or aren't comfortable being themselves.

SPEAKER_10 1:27:54

But Keener would never do it.

SPEAKER_07 1:27:56

She is she is pretty comfortable in herself.

SPEAKER_10 1:27:58

I don't think she is. I think it's all on a front. Interesting.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:02

I think she's comfortable in herself, but she's not comfortable with who she loves. Because they need to be a certain exactly. Which I guess it's not. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:12

Like she's not true of heart. She's expressing it differently. Yeah. Sure, yeah. She expresses it by kind of being a dick.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:19

Well, and the way that Or just fucking a bunch of people.

SPEAKER_10 1:28:21

Yeah, yeah. Everybody she can, especially if they're, you know, like John Cusack doesn't turn her on. But as she says, John Malkovich obviously turns her on.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:30

There's a level of Well, and then when he can control John Malkovich, yeah, that's even sexier.

SPEAKER_10 1:28:35

Well, and Cameron Diaz going through the very first time the John Malkovich experience and comes out and is like, I'm a fucking different person. I've never felt more in my own skin. I've never felt more comfortable in what I am doing and what I am feeling and my desires.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:56

All of her baggage is gone. Yes. She's not herself. She has she's basically letting go of everything else in her life. And who knows what her background was. That that's also why I love this movie. They don't dive into the background of any single character except a little bit of Malkovich when you deal with a psyche. But that's it. You get no background on anybody.

SPEAKER_10 1:29:18

This story that's happening in this time period is the important piece.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:22

Right.

SPEAKER_10 1:29:22

And I like that they flash forward at a point, like in it for a matter of months, where it's like, this is we don't need to see this. This is he's puppeteering him, and we're moving on. So, which we're gonna do as well. Malkovich goes to dinner with Keener, and Diaz is like, you know what? I'm super turned on by this Malkovich Keener thing, and whatever they're experiencing. Let's just smoke a joint and have like Keener over. And as you were talking about Rob, one of the funniest parts of the movie is like one of the rides the people goes on is just Malkovich eating leftovers and ordering towels very Specifically. And then the person gets spit out in their like right of a fucking lifetime worth everybody. Yeah, all right. You've never wanted to feel more powerful at home or at home and demanding like, I don't need a bath mat. I need three hand towels. All right. Shit. Should I give him the same?

SPEAKER_08 1:30:21

Oh. Periwinkle. Perrywinkablie.

SPEAKER_07 1:30:25

What is your dialect right now? You went Scottish. Not for me. It's for me, man. Definitely an American man. The one punch machine? Definitely a Chicago man.

SPEAKER_10 1:30:37

I love American baseball. He's Chicago, right? Yeah. Because he started Steppenwolf. Michael Shannon and yeah, a bunch of the Steppenwolf folks. Gary Sinise. Yeah. The dinner at at the Schwartz's and the thing that Katherine Keener says, passionate ones remain vital. Like I think she's basically saying, like, I'm for lack of a better term, like a succubus, an incubus? Which one's the correct term?

SPEAKER_07 1:31:02

Uh incubus is a fucking rock on, man.

SPEAKER_10 1:31:06

Okay. So, but she's uh she's basically saying, like, I'm feeding off of the energy of this artist, the vitality of this artist. You two, John Cusack and Cameron Diaz are not alive. I need this really and but part of it with Cameron Diaz too is that's where I get it gets difficult. Where it's like cat Catherine Keener's like, I want to be with Cameron Diaz, but I can't because I can't. I'm too afraid.

SPEAKER_07 1:31:33

Like what again, they well, I think it partially it's she's an affront. Uh partially it's status. I think that there's like obviously they live in this basement thing, but I don't think I don't know if she's again, I don't know. She hasn't been with a woman before. Right.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:46

She needs to be through Jim Malkovich.

SPEAKER_10 1:31:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:49

Yeah. She can get two people looking at her at the same time.

SPEAKER_10 1:31:52

I love that line. So it's a power that explanation is really cool.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:57

Like she needs energy now, she can get double the energy. Energy vampire. Energy.

SPEAKER_07 1:32:02

We're back to what we do in the show. Just like Paul.

SPEAKER_10 1:32:07

I've been alive for a long, long year.

SPEAKER_07 1:32:10

Can't you tell when Paul's around? You just like suddenly you're just like, oh I need to sit in a blank room with no sound.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:20

Enjoy the podcast. But that reminds me, Catherine says basically the only people that matter are people that take things in their own hands, that they act on things. Correct. And then they pull both people that don't act. Fuck them. Yep. They don't matter. And then they pull the lateral picture at the same time.

SPEAKER_07 1:32:38

Yeah. And it is. So awkward. And the this is where we start to transition. And I think this is where I see Cusack as the villain of the movie, which happens quick.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:50

In many ways he is, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:32:51

Yeah. But his transition.

SPEAKER_10 1:32:53

He is. Yeah. And not many ways, Rob. I I'm sorry. I will argue this. He is the villain. I'm not arguing. I thought you were about to say, in many ways, but also I was like, no, he's bad. No, he's a bad man.

SPEAKER_07 1:33:04

Yeah. I mean, you could argue that he has non-consensual sex with her.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:10

Right. Don't think it's uh But it's through John Malkovich, though.

Meet Me Halfway (through the movie)

SPEAKER_10 1:33:13

So that's why she's consenting to the body, but not the soul. She's consenting to Lottie. Right. And that's and even calling out Lottie. When John Malkovich and fucking John Malkovich and confusing John Malkovich, also the cleaning, the dry cleaning bills, when Katherine Keener visits him at his apartment and waits for Lottie to see Lottie through his eyes. Yeah. Before she goes for it. And also just looking at John Malkovich, waiting.

SPEAKER_07 1:33:41

Yeah. Her performance is also great. Like the I feel like all of them.

SPEAKER_10 1:33:46

They're all really the four main. Yeah. I mean, also a bunch of the character actors are great too. The doctor, the horny doctor.

SPEAKER_07 1:33:51

Mo Lester. Dr.

SPEAKER_10 1:33:53

Mo Lester, 105 years old. Stealing the vitality.

SPEAKER_07 1:33:57

Hold on. Question though, is there multiple people inside of Dr. Lester? That's the thing.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:03

I try not to think about this. I would say no, no. He he did say I figured out how to get more people in. Okay. He did say that in the movie. But that doesn't mean there aren't multiple people because this vessel could have been going for a long, long time. So it still could be nearly infinite amount of people that are in there.

SPEAKER_10 1:34:21

I also thought about maybe this is a comment on part of the reasoning that John Malkovich is such a great and talented actor, is that a different personality is driving the car and it's so dedicated and it's so it's so believable because it is that person, like for that period of time. Again, the commentary I think that happens in this movie about the artist or the soul of the artist, I think goes many levels. You said it, Ben, like the snake starts eating itself. The Malkovich turns over in the Malkovich, the Malkovich, the Malkovich.

SPEAKER_07 1:34:54

Yeah, well, so when he discovers that there's some shit going on and he tracks him down.

SPEAKER_10 1:34:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:34:59

And I love that he just like is like the same with everyone else. Just like, yeah, I'll go in here.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:05

Yeah, because it could have been a prison. It could have been anything.

SPEAKER_07 1:35:08

Yeah. Yeah. And he's just like, yeah, I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm doing. And I think that the design does well enough to make you see this like end of that tunnel that like goes dips down a little bit that just is intriguing enough. Like it feels like it pulls you in enough to the point where you might turn around, and then at that point where you might turn around, the door slams and it like it's a little bit more.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:27

So like the first time, maybe they can see that light at the end of the tunnel and they see a piece of toast and a cup of coffee or whatever. Would he see his ass? Would he're so worried about the technical.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:42

What's funny too is I can't help it. I'm a writer.

SPEAKER_07 1:35:46

The dude that was already in there, he's seeing they came out at the same time though. He's seeing John. I know that's weird, because like it would have been 15 minutes. Right. But unless he pushed him through. He's seeing John like go into the building and fight his way into climbing in the tunnel, which that I think that's just funny. That that's what he's watching. Uh but yeah, I mean he goes in at the same time as this dude. Clearly, no one's in control. Because I think at a lot of times when someone goes in, no one's John's in control.

SPEAKER_06 1:36:14

And he's so but again though, the other guy was already in his head. He would have seen him coming into the tunnel. Yeah. Oh no. And it said he he didn't say that when they popped out.

SPEAKER_10 1:36:25

They were 30 seconds apart from each other, maybe. Who knows? But they popped out exactly like you said, it exactly the same thing. He might have squeezed him through.

SPEAKER_06 1:36:32

But but still, though, the guy that went in first would have been seeing through John Malkovich as he was about to go in. Maybe for that guy.

SPEAKER_07 1:36:40

Maybe the logic of Time Cop doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_10 1:36:46

Nick Kroll, thank you so much. Paul Paul fart, mall fart.

SPEAKER_07 1:36:52

But you know, I I think I I think that what I what I actually appreciate about this movie is it doesn't do the Midaclorians effect, which for me is that it's it is giving too much science. I'm still thinking I agree with that. I don't need too much.

SPEAKER_10 1:37:06

If it if it starts trying to talk its way out of all of the fantasticalness of the movie, it's not as fun for me. When Malkovich is gonna go inside his own head, I'm less worried about how soon he is behind this other person or whatever it is. And the fact that he takes off his I Love New York hat and before he goes in the tunnel, puts it back on. Like he's like, All right, get ready. And he like makes this funny choice. New York does it, and he goes into his own head. And I like the idea, it's like, well, if you're in your own universe, the entire universe is you, and it's just it feels very simple, but it's also very effective. And that CG actually is pretty solid. Of everybody has that head nine, that's pretty solid. And the only word that exists is Malkovich.

SPEAKER_07 1:37:53

But I also think that it's um whatever this magical thing is, that's never had to experience this before. Right. So I feel like it's a little bit of a like loading, like it's like trying learning. The rainbow wheels turning.

SPEAKER_06 1:38:08

The reason I called that scene a cop-out isn't because of all the Malkoviches, and isn't because of the faces and the audio. It's that why'd they choose a restaurant? Because he's an actor. I I feel like they would have chosen a stage. Yeah. And everybody in the audience is Malkovich and all their lines are. Like I just feel like there would have been another level into his psyche to do that same scene.

SPEAKER_07 1:38:33

The only argument I can make for that is that we've seen him in a restaurant already in the movie. And that it to me it feels kind of like a dream. But we'd also seen him in a play. Sure. Sure. To me, it feels more like a dream that's not it's not giving you anything on purpose. It's giving you like it's just regurgitating things that have already occurred to you.

SPEAKER_10 1:38:55

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: It's reprocessing, re-filtering, re- Yeah, it's regener it's like AI on this third or fourth editor. Like it's like you're giving different prompts.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:03

But also, remember, he's a vessel. So there's all these other souls in him forever how long it's been, and their repressed memories could be coming out. It could have been something from a thousand years ago on a ship.

SPEAKER_07 1:39:17

So wait, I guess I I guess I don't understand that. Who deposits so many different things? Because I thought the only people inside of him were the people. Remember, he's a vessel, though. He's a vessel, but like people can people come in and can only leave until that that 44th year or whatever, and then they can stay, right? Because they learn how to hold on. Oh, I see what you're saying.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:38

But his um speed moves on.

SPEAKER_10 1:39:41

Yeah. I think, Rob, you need to consider your 4.75 with how much you are hung up on the rules of this universe.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:49

Also understand that that's why it's not a five. You have to understand this. You have to understand better. This is not a love. This is Paul, okay.

SPEAKER_07 1:39:58

Understand more.

SPEAKER_10 1:39:59

I just feel like it's I know there's a level of it that's bugging you, and I understand the why, as you explain, like the being a writer. And you rate this really high, higher than me. There's a part of me that is maybe it's as more of I guess watching movies kind of obsessively, where I'm like, movie's got a movie. But there is a part of me what that what Rob is saying where it's like, I do want more of a level. I don't know how much it's I don't know that I would fix it, is what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:27

But like you said, you don't want to overexplain this stuff. You want to keep the movie fun and moving forward. And maybe that's sometimes what I get hung up on with my own writing is that I'm trying to overexplain things and I need to step back, cut that out, and let the let it just flow.

SPEAKER_07 1:40:44

I think that I mean, I I feel like sometimes things do that that bug me for a second, and then I just have to let it go. It's like sometimes I uh I'm a huge Doctor Who fan. Ditto. And sometimes I'm a huge I'm a huge like, why can the Sonic screwdriver do that?

SPEAKER_06 1:40:59

And then I have to just not the next time.

SPEAKER_07 1:41:01

Yeah. Whatever. It's it's it but it plays a role. I have to let it go. You gotta move on. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's it's it's a bit of a soft science that that as long as the the story progresses, I'm okay with that being soft. 100%. Yeah. And that's how I felt about this.

SPEAKER_10 1:41:17

Sometimes it's difficult to be okay with things being low bar. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:21

But there's so many contradictions in there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 1:41:24

Oh, yeah. I think we can all agree on this. The funniest part of a pretty funny movie is Malkovich getting spit out of Malkovich and the kind of struggle, like, hey Malkovich, think fast and dealing with the back of the head with a can.

SPEAKER_09 1:41:39

That was that was fun. Yeah, it's so funny. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_07 1:41:42

This is very funny. Uh it's just it comes out of nowhere. Uh but I I love that Keener is he's still gonna go try to fuck him. Right. Uh and this is when this is when Craig has gone full insane and she's turned on by Craig controlling Malkovich fully now.

SPEAKER_10 1:41:59

Because we didn't explain, it takes a while to understand or have the power or awareness of I think because he's a puppeteer.

SPEAKER_07 1:42:09

I don't think anyone else has been anyone else has been able to actually understand how to control how to control it. Yeah. And I think because he has this ability already of like controlling things, that he's able to like figure it out.

SPEAKER_06 1:42:23

He had his goals set way too low.

SPEAKER_07 1:42:25

The bar was way too low. He's controlling marionettes. That look like him.

SPEAKER_09 1:42:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:42:29

And now he can control John Malkovich.

SPEAKER_09 1:42:32

To look like him. Who eventually looks like him?

SPEAKER_07 1:42:35

And also does the same puppet introduct does the same dance as the marionette at the beginning, which is fucking brilliant performance.

SPEAKER_10 1:42:44

Dude, when he fully takes over Cusack and Maxine realizes it and says, Let's do it on his dining room table and make him eat an omelet off of it, and Malkovich breaks through and goes, no.

SPEAKER_09 1:42:56

And then John Cusack goes, Shut up, you overrated sack of shit.

SPEAKER_10 1:43:02

And it's what you guys are talking about, where Malkovich and Cusack understand each other's cadence to a degree that is part of what makes this movie so good. And when Lottie goes back to the doctor after been inside of Malkovich several times and sleeping with Maxine as Malkovich and realizing who she is as a person and having this epiphany, we find out after Lottie has seen the doctor's shrine to John Malkovich in his home that he has this because John Malkovich is a vessel. This door exists.

SPEAKER_07 1:43:40

And they have a cult of old people who are working for the greater good. The greater good. And they're gonna go inside Malkovich. And they kind of like do this thing that is this uh like just quick exposition folklore that is like, yeah, you have to go in uh by the time on like his 44th birthday before midnight, otherwise you get trapped in another vessel.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:03

There's a very heaven's gate thing aboutin that 15-minute window. Yeah. Because you get spit out before he's gonna be able to get away. Oh, yeah. So he answers at 1155, is that right?

SPEAKER_07 1:44:14

But they but they do have to pinpoint because this is what's gonna happen to QSAC, is they have to say if you don't get it in that window, you'll go into the next vessel and you'll be trapped in there as a as just a passenger, and that and that vessel drives like you're just stuck in there forever, which is what is spoilers, gonna happen to QSAC. But I think it's an important little bit of information because otherwise you don't really understand the ending. And it is kind of quickly, I think.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:42

We're in the third act, maybe as he explains it to Cameron Diaz, it goes pretty quickly. Yeah, I'll admit that even though I'd seen the movie ten times, you know, 20 years ago, when I watched it last night, I rewound that and played that again to make sure I understood exactly what they were saying. Even though I kind of knew it, I need to know exactly how. And I I fear that the first time someone's watching this, they just glaze through that.

SPEAKER_07 1:45:12

100%. You could be totally lost at the end.

SPEAKER_10 1:45:15

So much of this went over my head the first couple few times I've watched this. Again, not sober at any point watching this.

SPEAKER_07 1:45:23

Your fully haired head.

SPEAKER_10 1:45:25

Yeah. Yeah. All the way. Like that when I had my afro, when I had my curls, when I had my mullet, when I had my skulllet. Well, now it's the skulllet. The skull is pretty badass.

SPEAKER_07 1:45:35

Thank you. Thank you. Malkovich kind of has a skull. Oh, he does.

SPEAKER_10 1:45:40

So Malkovich. No, when when he's puppeting Malkovich, when Catherine Keener says puppet him for me, literally puppet a performance. Yeah. And it almost looks like Malkovich doing all of it, and how the blanket stays around his waist, I don't know.

SPEAKER_07 1:45:58

More non-consensual sex, right?

SPEAKER_10 1:45:59

More non-consensual sex and the PBS special of John Malkovich being like, no more acting, puppetry only.

SPEAKER_07 1:46:08

All of the all of the TV stuff in this, it made me realize how long ago 1999 was.

SPEAKER_06 1:46:14

Also, how much he accomplished in only eight months.

SPEAKER_10 1:46:19

Because he's John Malkovich. I think that's what the movie's trying to say, though, is Q is Q what QSAC's belief is is if I were John Malkovich, everyone would love me.

SPEAKER_06 1:46:32

So in a weird way, that character wrote this movie.

unknown 1:46:37

Whoa.

SPEAKER_06 1:46:38

Because because that that's a pretty condensed time frame. Like that should have been 10 years, eight years, not eight months.

SPEAKER_05 1:46:45

I think this is okay. So I think this is kind of hitting at what you But I think they did it on purpose. I think you did it on purpose, though. This I don't think this part's a flaw. No, I don't I don't think depression is a button.

SPEAKER_07 1:46:56

But I think that that that what you just touched on thematically is why I think adaptation is kind of doing a similar thing a little better for me. Uh in terms of the Charlie and Donald in adaptation and needing Dumb question.

SPEAKER_06 1:47:12

Do you like Nicolas Cage better than John Cusack?

SPEAKER_10 1:47:15

Do you like Nicolas Cage better than Nicolas Cage? Do I like which Nicolas Cage?

SPEAKER_07 1:47:20

I mean, I would if I'm talking about Conair Both are in Con all three of them are in Conair. All three of them are in Conair. Maybe add something. Put dan put the bunny. I would definitely vote more Nick Cage than Cusack for sure. Okay.

SPEAKER_10 1:47:33

I think Nick Cage is a fantastic actor, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_06 1:47:36

But I I think it's just I'm But specifically these two movies, though. Yeah, yeah. I think they're just like the Nicolas Cage character better than the John Cusick character. I mean, as far as what it does for the movie, not making them as people.

SPEAKER_10 1:47:48

I don't like either of them.

SPEAKER_06 1:47:50

I I think I like Donald in adaptation, but I don't like But to be fair, Donald is more Charlie Kaufman. Right. It's him wanting to do being John Malkovich. Char Charlie. And a lot of that is is what he went through making that movie.

SPEAKER_10 1:48:06

Charlie, Charlie being Charlie in adaptation is the is the manifestation, the personalization of the intrusive thoughts. And Donald is like, I think, the positive, confident thought. So many of these movies are about confidence and status.

SPEAKER_06 1:48:20

I would argue all of Charlie Koplin's movies is about confidence. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 1:48:30

That's why I agree. That's what I think the Malkovich thing is, is like this guy, the brain of a puppeteer who's been doing this maybe his whole life, but now has the fame and access of John Malkovich and makes it seem like I stopped acting and I became a master, 30-year grandmaster of the craft puppeteer. And John Q the movie, I think, is trying to say that John Cusack believes if I had the fame of John Malkovich, being a puppeteer would become a worldwide phenomenon. People would forsake their they wouldn't be doctors and lawyers and architects and actors. They'd be puppeteers. That's how influential I am.

SPEAKER_06 1:49:13

Other actors say that. Well, if I had the confidence of him, I would I would go into puppeteering. I don't want to be considered a me too. Also, I can also do this. This is my follower.

SPEAKER_10 1:49:25

My mom or my dad, a Nepo baby, whatever it is.

SPEAKER_07 1:49:28

What I find interesting is like this third act is potentially 2X. Okay. Because I feel like we have the act of Cusack as Malkovich, and then we have the act of Malkovich coming out of Cusack. Which isn't long, but yeah. Yeah. It doesn't feel like a resolution act. It feels like another uh like there's more story to occur.

SPEAKER_06 1:49:52

Because we need to see I mean you could actually argue, I I know it's common in film to have three acts, but in in literature, it's common to have three. Five, seven? Yeah. There are five. Do you think that there are there are five in this one?

SPEAKER_07 1:50:06

I feel like it has three. I just feel like the third act is unconventional. Like it feels like it So it's like a subreddit act. I don't know. For me, backslash, Lackslash, Malkovich, Malkovich, Malcolm. I didn't remember all of the stuff that occurred after Kusak falls out of Malkovich.

SPEAKER_10 1:50:23

I can't help but like just literally die over the PBS specials. As we were saying, over eight months this was done, and Brad Pitt rolling his eyes at Catherine Keener and David Fincher showing up, and even Sean Penn is like, he influenced it. It feels like Pop Star, where it's like this person influenced like Usher and all these like McJagger or whatever, like, yeah, this person influenced me. And it's like, what the fuck? Popstar is a great movie. I think it's also super great that they use Swan Lake as his thing, where it's like, are you gonna be the white swan or the black swan when this is all said and done? And Lottie now is chasing pregnant Maxine, because it's been eight months, through Malkovich's subconscious, and you're going through as we've gone through the traumatic childhood of the monkey. Oh, so Maxine does go in. But Maxine does go in finally when she's being chased in when it's not her choice. That's a good point.

SPEAKER_05 1:51:21

But she did, though. She did though.

SPEAKER_07 1:51:22

But it was more to escape.

unknown 1:51:23

Right.

SPEAKER_07 1:51:24

Right. She's like, she's running from fleeing.

SPEAKER_10 1:51:29

She's running from motherhood and the responsibility of it, I think, in the moment. She doesn't want to confront it. And a gun. And a gun.

SPEAKER_06 1:51:35

You know what to your point earlier where you said non-consensual sex, when she says it's your baby, even though it's still Malkovich's biological function. Right. She says your baby, meaning that it didn't matter who was inside of her. So those were definitely non-consensual before then. I think Katherine Keener has to go.

SPEAKER_10 1:51:59

I think Katherine Keener has to go through all of this to be comfortable enough with who she is to drop the affront. Because we know where the ends up. Yeah. Well, like she tells Maxine tells Lottie, this is your baby. And Craig is losing the luster of being Malkovich very fast as they were able to talk him into like, you gotta get out, or you're gonna kill a lot of people, and it's gonna be bad for you. And the bluff pays off. And Cusack leaves, and the old, all these old people, the magical doctor, Dr. Mo, and all these folks take over the body. Cusack ditches, and he's Cusack again. And that's the this is the beauty of this movie for me, where this final like stinger or act or whatever thing happens, it's almost like a surprise, like very dark ending, but where Cusack ditches Malkovich's body, and we're going through this like happy ending for Charlie Sheen and John Malkovich and the vessels and Katherine Keener and Cameron Diaz and potentially Gary Sinise, maybe. But Cusack decides he is going to go into the portal again off camera and enter the mind of the daughter because by uh heredity. See, I don't think he knows.

SPEAKER_07 1:53:20

No, he doesn't know. I don't think he cares. No, no, I think he doesn't know that he literally knows.

SPEAKER_05 1:53:25

He doesn't know.

SPEAKER_07 1:53:26

The only person that knows is Lottie. So I think he goes back thinking he can get back into Malkovich. That's what he's trying to do. I also don't I don't think he cares.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:34

Yeah, but he doesn't know to not care.

SPEAKER_10 1:53:36

I think he's saying I think he's enjoying the perverse.

SPEAKER_07 1:53:40

Oh, you you don't think he cares being inside the daughter?

SPEAKER_10 1:53:43

I think being inside he doesn't he's fine being inside the daughter. He doesn't give a shit. He's fine being this voyeuristic, creepy weirdo, still feeling like he's controlling things through potentially controlling the daughter. I think it's very dark.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:58

I don't think he knows that that's possible though. I I think he's trying to get inside Jamalkovich.

SPEAKER_10 1:54:02

I but I You don't think he you think he doesn't know he's the daughter? No, no, no. He doesn't know who he's the daughter?

SPEAKER_07 1:54:07

You're talking two things. Yeah. We're talking that he you're we we thought you meant that he didn't care when he went back in there that he would be going into the daughter.

SPEAKER_10 1:54:15

Oh, I I think once he knows he's in the daughter, he doesn't give a shit.

SPEAKER_07 1:54:18

I think the only thing that tells me that You guys are right, you guys are right.

SPEAKER_10 1:54:22

That yeah the only thing I think once he's in there, he doesn't care.

SPEAKER_07 1:54:25

I think the only thing that tells me that he I mean he might grow not to care, but he's trying to desperately get the daughter to do something at the very end, and she doesn't do it.

SPEAKER_06 1:54:34

Yeah, look away, look away. He can't puppeteer her because he's he's forced down.

SPEAKER_10 1:54:39

I I think I will say I misspoke, you guys are right. I think there's a level of desperation and depression and sadness and darkness for his character that we didn't expect coming. Where he is even okay, potentially, because couldn't he drop out of the daughter at any point if he wanted to? Or he's stuck. That's what Lester says.

SPEAKER_07 1:55:00

They're stuck in there as a passenger. For me, I think it's more of like a twilight zone ending, a comeuppance. It is that. Yeah, I agree. That's what I feel like like he he he's a very twilight zone.

SPEAKER_10 1:55:11

That's the darkness I'm trying to touch on. Yeah, you guys are better at it than me. Oh stop. Uh, it's true, it's true. I do I want to press one more time is what the cop I do. I'm placing this.

SPEAKER_05 1:55:23

Are you a fucking cop? Are you a cop?

SPEAKER_09 1:55:25

Are you a fucking co-op? Are you a fucking co-op? Eat it. I forget what he said. I don't remember.

SPEAKER_10 1:55:32

I was don't come up until you can't breathe. Bring that movie. Bring the departed. Somebody bring the fucking departed. As as we're ending this movie, I think it is a great message about being who you are and the power of just being who you are.

SPEAKER_07 1:55:51

Well, and I think that's what the movie is ending with. How how happy Lottie and Maxine are. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:55:56

Just like and and despite nobody ever rooting for Maxine the whole movie because she's just a horrible person. Yet she wins.

SPEAKER_07 1:56:04

He is, and yet though she comes to terms with being okay with being with Lottie. Loving Lottie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 1:56:11

That's the weird thing for me, too, is that ultimately, like, Maxine has this journey in coming to the realization that the affront is not necessary, that you're going to be happy being who who you are, way happier being who you are.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 1:56:25

I I love the message of the movie. We're coming to the end of the movie here. We came. We came to the end of the movie. And now we have to come to a decision. A new rating.

SPEAKER_07 1:56:36

Any new ratings from you, Rob?

SPEAKER_06 1:56:39

I thought I said the 4.75.

SPEAKER_07 1:56:41

But now you get to decide if you would like to change it from our clearly strong arguments. Do you want to see you? I feel like you had more arguments than maybe.

SPEAKER_10 1:56:50

Do you want to go up, down, or stay at 4.75? You're staying?

SPEAKER_07 1:56:54

He's holding. Yeah. I'm holding. We're holding.

SPEAKER_10 1:56:56

I can't liberty rule.

SPEAKER_07 1:56:58

That's true. Liberty rule for those means that he can't go in between four and four and a half. He has to round up or down.

SPEAKER_10 1:57:08

I can't do four point two five. I can't do quarters like you can.

SPEAKER_05 1:57:15

And these rules are made up, so. That's true. You know? I just like watching you guys struggle.

SPEAKER_10 1:57:24

Not the first time I've heard that won't be the last time. I love you, Dad. I this is the most difficult it's been for me, I think, to make a decision on moving up or staying.

SPEAKER_06 1:57:40

We know that Maxine would say down, and we know that Lottie would say up. But who do you really rather hang out with?

SPEAKER_10 1:57:49

You know, I'd I'd rather hang out with Lottie. I have been Maxine more of my actual life.

SPEAKER_07 1:57:56

I've been a real You said Paul's a real piece of shit.

SPEAKER_10 1:58:00

Yeah. Slick back? Baby smiled at me.

SPEAKER_07 1:58:03

Slick back.

Final Ratings

SPEAKER_10 1:58:04

Sloppy stakes, Trafani's the whole thing. I boy, I'm gonna stay. This is the thing, outside of all of our arguments, those audience scores are like sticking in my head. Like, is this more relatable and more universal than I thought? And I'm not gonna put a heart on this movie at all because it's not a particular movie where it's like, oh, the filmmaking's questionable, but I love it. No, because the filmmaking's stellar. So boy. I'm gonna stay at a four. I'm gonna re-watch this movie. Like probably sooner than later. And I'm gonna say something fucking really weird and I don't want to horrify people. Maybe sober.

SPEAKER_07 1:58:46

Maybe sober. Um that seems like something you should talk about with someone else. Low bar like a therapist.

SPEAKER_10 1:58:57

My psychologist says I'm OCD.

SPEAKER_07 1:59:00

One cool dude.

SPEAKER_10 1:59:02

Go on.

SPEAKER_07 1:59:06

Uh I think that I am gonna stay at four. Uh I yeah, I mean, I I think I kind of, yeah, a lot of great back and forth. Uh I I don't like to pull the threads too much, but I think ultimately for me, like the the themes that are being explored in this movie, and while there are some unique ones that aren't explored later, but I I I do think that again, I'm just reiterating myself, but um that the what he what he explores in adaptation and in Eternal Sunshine, I think are are are just a little bit more uh just resonate more with me uh as a person. But other than that, I think this movie is very spectacular.

SPEAKER_06 1:59:49

I I d this time I base the movie, my rating only on the movie and our conversation. But with what we do in the shadows, I Admit that part of the reason I raise it after the fact was because of the series. Even though they're not the same thing and it's not a true sequel, I did raise it because of that. So I find interesting you're keeping it down because of the future work. There's nothing wrong with that. I used it to pull it up and used it to stay the same.

SPEAKER_10 2:00:21

Yeah. I think there is an evolution in the work though. I like the point you're making, Ben. Like it's like Schenectady New York. I know it's not like a widely seen or widely acclaimed movie, but the dialogue in that movie is maybe some of my favorite Charlie Kaufman dialogue. Eternal Sunshine and the Spotless Mind, like, holy smokes. Like all those scripts are great.

SPEAKER_06 2:00:40

And for me with Eternal, though, it's one of the greatest movies ever. I struggle with repeat viewing because it's so dark, because it's so fucking weird. It's like we I I think we talked about earlier how I don't know if it's recording or not, but I don't really get nightmares often. Like that's not really a thing. So like nightmare movies don't affect me. But I think memory movies do, in the sense that it's how sunshine is actually a scarier movie to me than Freddy or Jason.

SPEAKER_10 2:01:16

You know, I choose dementia. I choose Alzheimer's to get rid of this thing where it's like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_06 2:01:22

But you choose it all the time because you keep forgetting you chose it.

SPEAKER_10 2:01:25

Sure, but like that's what that move You're right. Good point. Well done. You know what?

SPEAKER_07 2:01:31

That's a low bar, Paul.

SPEAKER_10 2:01:33

It really is. You really hit it.

SPEAKER_07 2:01:34

But you know who said a high bar? Is our return guest, Rob. Thank you so much for coming back to the show. Thank you for bringing this.

SPEAKER_06 2:01:40

I was supposed to- So remember we were talking about I'm going to review, review your podcast now. As he looks at his watch. As soon as I said it, he's looking at the wall. It's like 9.1. You know what? Now it just dropped because it was a 9.1. Yeah. It's gone down now. Solid 9. I was going to do the same with the movie. Is it a solid 9.3, which you would then call 4.75? But you looked at your watch, man. I don't have a watch. It's so insulting. No, you pretended to. That's even worse. Look, look at me looking at the time.

SPEAKER_07 2:02:15

It is worse. Paul Zorse. Um thank you so much for me. Thank you guys. Hey Rob, uh uh, can you please plug your stuff once again?

SPEAKER_06 2:02:23

I write a book series called The Omnist series. The first book is called Konsumia's Spiritual Emporium. The most recent book is called The Soul Phone Collector. I'm currently working on The Color Braille, which is the name of a band that appears throughout the book series. The band is playing a show at a venue that actually gets snowed in, and of course it's haunted, or else you wouldn't have a Scooby-Doo episode. So the Color Braille will be the next book coming out in 2026. Right.

SPEAKER_07 2:02:53

Paul, would you like to talk about the people who helped us make this beautiful program? First and foremost, Rob.

SPEAKER_10 2:03:03

Secondary yourself.

SPEAKER_07 2:03:06

Follow me at Run BMC on Letterboxd and on Instagram.

SPEAKER_10 2:03:09

You can follow me at PaulAxBadly on Letterboxd. You can follow the podcast at ReviewX2 Podcast on Instagram and Blue Sky. Our bookend themes are Jamie Henwood. What you've been doing, what you've been watching are Matthew Foskett. Fun facts are Chris Olds. And we I said a low bar, but thanks for raising it, gentlemen.

SPEAKER_07 2:03:30

Well, Paul does a lot of work on this as well. So give him some accolades and love. Give me 9.1 accolades.

unknown 2:03:36

Thank you, sir.

SPEAKER_07 2:03:37

I'm gonna give you around six accolades. Six accolades.

SPEAKER_09 2:03:42

Please stop. It's a lot of accolades.

SPEAKER_06 2:03:44

I said just six accolades. It's a lot of accolades. Stop doing what? You've ruined the number six. Alpha.

SPEAKER_10 2:03:52

You sons of bitches. Uh I should cut that out. Anything else? I'm sure. No, we're good. Okay. Well. Shut it down. Shut you. Shut it down. Love you. Oh, love you, bunny.