Attention, Vulnerability, and Shame: A Conversation with Matt Tomatz

In this episode, Dr. Scott Conkright sits down with his longtime friend and colleague, therapist Matt Tomatz, for a wide-ranging and deeply reflective conversation about attention, shame, music, memory, and the ways our inner lives shape our relationships.

Scott and Matt begin with a question that quietly frames the entire conversation: what if the body is holding memories the mind cannot easily access? From there, they move into an exploration of how our earliest experiences, especially moments of shame, can influence the way we listen, connect, withdraw, perform, and protect ourselves.

Their conversation moves naturally through literature, philosophy, music, and psychotherapy. Scott and Matt reflect on childhood bookshelves, the mystery of wanting to understand what once felt out of reach, and the way serious ideas can become emotionally alive over time. They touch on writers and thinkers such as Borges, Kant, Kierkegaard, and others, not as abstract references, but as part of a larger meditation on curiosity, attention, and the search for meaning.

A central thread of the episode is music. Matt shares from his experience working with musicians, including professionals and students in classical and jazz training. Together, he and Scott consider how music requires a particular kind of attention. For some, music cannot simply remain in the background. It calls the mind, the body, and the emotional life into focus. Live performance becomes a powerful example of presence, vulnerability, and connection.

Scott and Matt also examine how shame can interrupt interest and enjoyment. In music education, family life, intimate partnerships, and professional settings, moments of misattunement can cause people to shrink, freeze, or hide their enthusiasm. Rather than treating shame as something only destructive, Scott invites a more nuanced view: shame exists on a continuum. At healthy levels, it can signal an interruption in connection. At toxic levels, it can organize an entire way of being.

The episode becomes especially compelling when Scott introduces his developing work with affective archetypes. He describes how early shame may shape different styles of connection, including the eager “puppy” energy that longs for closeness and the more self-protective “cat” energy that needs distance. Matt deepens this image by reflecting on the complexity of the puppy itself, not only as enthusiasm, but as openness, rest, love, and vulnerability.

What makes this conversation so engaging is not only the ideas themselves, but the tone between Scott and Matt. They are thinking together in real time. The discussion is warm, intelligent, personal, and unhurried. It invites listeners to consider their own patterns of attention: What do we notice? What do we defend against? Where do we lose connection? How does shame narrow our capacity for joy, curiosity, and intimacy?

This episode is for anyone interested in emotional intelligence, relationships, psychotherapy, music, creativity, shame, vulnerability, and the ongoing work of becoming more fully alive.

Listen to the full conversation with Dr. Scott Conkright and Matt Tomatz.