Keeping It Up With the Joneses
Learn how you and your partner can improve your sex life and keep "it" up. Listen to two marriage and family therapists, Dr. Rebecca Lucero Jones and Dr. Adam Jones (who happen to be married to each other), discuss topics related to sexuality and relationships based on current research.
Keeping It Up With the Joneses
Episode 4: Verbal Foreplay: Talking Your Way to Better Sex
Verbal Foreplay: Talking Your Way to Better Sex
In this episode of 'Keeping It Up with the Joneses,' hosts Rebecca Lucero Jones and Adam Jones dive into the fascinating world of sexual satisfaction within couples. They share insights from a recent study they conducted, revealing key factors that differentiate highly satisfied couples from those who are not sexually satisfied. The duo discusses the importance of mutual enhancement, sexual relationship building, and effective communication in maintaining a fulfilling sexual relationship. They also explore how societal norms and gender roles impact sexual dynamics and the significance of healthy boundaries. Practical advice for both maintaining and improving sexual satisfaction in relationships is provided, making this episode a must-listen for anyone looking to deepen their intimacy and connection with their partner.
00:00 Episode 4: Verbal Foreplay: Talking Your Way to Better Sex
02:25 Characteristics of Sexually Satistfied Couples
12:39 Mutual Enhancement in Sexual Relationships
24:01 Decision Making in Sexually Satisfied Couples
34:27 Outcomes of Sexual Communication
38:27 Learning to Talk About Sex
41:19 How to be a Mutually, Sexually Satisfied Couple
46:44 The Role of Novelty and Safety in Sexual Relationships
53:56 Balancing Sexual Contributions in Heterosexual Relationships
57:36 Boundaries and Communication
Welcome, everybody, to Keeping It Up With The Joneses for another saucy, spicy, sassy episode with your favorite hosts. Rebecca Lucero Jones and Adam Jones.
Rebecca:I'm looking at you right now with your ear out of one headphone, and it reminds me of that scene in the Emperor's New Groove where he sprouts a llama ear. Is that ear? And now you have two ears out of your headphones.
Adam:He's supposed to be dead.
Rebecca:Why are you wearing it like that? So you can hear can hear you
Adam:because I don't have you in my ears. Only you have me in your ears. Okay, yes, this is correct. And you love it.
Rebecca:I love a little ear play. I do. I'm not ashamed. Okay, let's get started. How about you, you want to do the welcome? You do such a great job welcoming.
Adam:I can.
Rebecca:Hold on. Okay. Go ahead and bring us in.
Adam:Welcome to keeping it up with the Joneses. Keeping it up. Keeping it
Rebecca:up. Up, up, up. It's so sexy when you Keeping it up, up, up, up, up,
Adam:up, up, up. Keepin
Rebecca:it
Adam:up with the Joneses!
Rebecca:Yeah, that reminds me of that Wasn't there a time where we were trying to think of a intro and we're like, Keepin it up! Keepin it up with the Joneses! Keepin it up with the Joneses! Someday we'll pay someone.
Adam:That makes me think of that SNL sketch, the Barry Gibb talk show.
Rebecca:Maybe that's the same tune. Talking it up!
Adam:Yeah. Keeping it up? Yeah, I think it's probably the
Rebecca:same.
Adam:The Barry Gibb talk show! It's one of my favorites. Talking about chest hair. Talking about really good couple sex. Okay, we can, we can, that was my segue into our topic today. Okay,
Rebecca:okay, perfect. We might be talking about chest hair, I don't know. Well, maybe that will be a whole episode.
Adam:I think there's a lot to talk about there.
Rebecca:I know. Body hair.
Adam:Season two. Coming your way.
Rebecca:Season two. Body hair. Alright.
Adam:What to do about it and how to get rid of it. If you want.
Rebecca:If you want. Or how to get more of it. If you want.
Adam:Yeah.
Rebecca:Both are options.
Adam:Yeah. Learning to enjoy swimming through somebody's seaweed.
Rebecca:Seaweed. A lot of people like it. Yeah. It's personal preference. Sure. Okay. All right. Well, let's talk about what we will be discussing today, which is one of our research studies that we conducted together. You actually collected the data, but then we both analyzed the data. We're going to talk about a study that we did where we collected written responses from men and women who were coupled together. And one of the things that we found from this research was that different couples function similarly to other couples. And there were four groups that emerged from this data. So there were couples where both partners were satisfied, couples where men were satisfied and women were dissatisfied, couples where women were satisfied and men were dissatisfied. And then there were couples where both were dissatisfied. But today we are going to be talking about the first group. And that is the group where both men and women who were coupled together were both satisfied. And this is important, Because as I just said, there are sometimes couples where one person is satisfied, but the other person is not. So it's not just enough to look at one side of the couple. We really need to see that both people are actually experiencing the relationship in the same way. So in this first group where men and women were satisfied, there's just a few characteristics that I would like to note before we get into the nitty gritty of what these people told us about their sexual relationships. And first is that in the group where women and men are sexually satisfied, men and women orgasm nearly equal amounts. Sometimes you'll hear people say, don't focus too much on the orgasm or orgasm doesn't matter. But I think it's really interesting that when people self report that they're both happy, actually people are both orgasming. So I think that does go to show that orgasm is pretty important.
Adam:Yeah, I think it's complicated to say that because a lot of people struggle with orgasm, and it can be a really challenging, sensitive topic to even bring up. And the ways that we talk about orgasm as if it's the goal line or the finish line. I think it can be really damaging. And oftentimes can give the impression that sex is supposed to happen one particular way, or supposed to have one particular outcome, and it doesn't look the same for everybody. And in fact, orgasm, you know, defining that for a lot of people can be quite different. And so, all that to say the orgasm here is loosely defined, we allow people to define it how they want it to. But reaching some sort of climax for them personally, enjoying getting to a point where the sexual interaction is really satisfying and achieve some sort of climax or apex of the experience was really what we were asking for here. And it is, it's fascinating to see these different groups. A lot of times if you're just looking at the variance across couples and not exploring the different types of couples that there might be, you don't get to really dissect, what is it that this couple that has really satisfying sex, what is it that they do differently, right? And so that's the fun thing about diving in and looking into this group. And it is, it's exciting to know that the couples that both report satisfying sex also have higher rates of orgasm in both partners. Right. And we're going to see what we compared that a little bit in the last episode, but we'll see that maybe more as we go through here and talk about them.
Rebecca:Yeah. Yeah, no, I appreciate you sharing that. And I think another aspect to this is that we found that men prioritize their own orgasm least and compared to the other groups and women prioritized it more. And so I think, That's interesting, right, that there's that dynamic characterizing these heterosexual couples when we compare it to other groups, but I think it also goes to show that, I mean, we don't always know cause or effect, but women clearly are not faking it in this group, right? They're prioritizing it. So there is some sort of communication where men know to prioritize the woman and it suggests that they know if she is or she isn't. that they both have this priority to make sure that the woman is experiencing an orgasm. And so I think that's really key too, is that a lot of people are faking it and that doesn't do anybody favors. But it does seem like these couples have learned how to prioritize the female orgasm so that they can have a mutually satisfying experience.
Adam:Yeah, a lot of gendered scripts have really prioritized men's orgasms for a long time. And so it's really common that you'll find that pattern. It is interesting that the men prioritized orgasm the least in fact, you know, it's interesting to think about how men get there. Right. And maybe even how women get into this group where, I know a lot of women who are afraid to say or may not even be honest if a sexual partner were to ask them, Hey, how satisfying was that for you or, did you come or was that enjoyable or what would be helpful in order to make this more enjoyable for you, right? What would you like? I think a lot of times even partners are afraid to ask those types of questions and a lot of, Women, I think are even afraid to give honest responses because, because of how sensitive sex can be sometimes. So I think it really takes two in a dynamic to be open to that type of feedback, right? If it wasn't satisfying, that doesn't crush my ego, it doesn't put me in a position of being a failure or maybe, it's not that I'm inexperienced or i'm not a good lover. It doesn't have to mean any particular thing. It can just mean that, there's room for us to explore and room for us to try something else where also, you know, for men to prioritize their orgasm less, I think that says something about the possibilities of what sex might look like. And the activities they might be engaging in and how even if if orgasm doesn't happen it's, it may be more important that we enjoy this experience together or that it's playful or fun and may not necessarily need to result with orgasm. I think it's an interesting shift in this, group of highly satisfied couples. That's where it's fun to dive in here with some of these qualitative responses and see what it means a little bit more.
Rebecca:Yeah. I completely agree. And I liked how you talked about how, it's not always just that men are asking women. A lot of men actually do ask, like, how was that for you? They are curious, but a lot of times women themselves can feel a lot of shame if they don't know how to orgasm or they don't know what works for their body. So I was listening to a podcast the other day and i heard a woman say something like somebody asked and i couldn't tell him because she was so embarrassed, like it seemed like our friends knew how to orgasm. He was expecting that. And then I think also if you fake it, then it can feel like, Oh my gosh! That's such a big thing to reveal. I mean, we've talked about that in other episodes, about couples where we have somebody in therapy and they're saying, Hey, for the last 20 years I've faked it! And We were even talking about this a few days ago where I said, And i feel so lucky that I never thought to fake it. Like I don't, I don't know why, right? It just feels in some ways lucky because when I first was having sex, I didn't know how to orgasm. I didn't know what my body needed in order to orgasm. But i was comfortable enough with my partner to just, stick with it and keep exploring until I learned what my body needed to orgasm. And I feel like I didn't even know that was a gift I gave myself. But to be truthful, was a gift I gave my partner and myself to just be patient and not be in a rush. And just trust that over time, we would both learn the ways that our bodies work together and what was going to bring Me an orgasm and it's just crazy to me because it so easily could have gone the other way.
Adam:It's sort of, this is really a form of intimacy that every couple has to nurture for themselves, right? I mean, even the type of feedback you might ask, right? If a man just asks, Hey, how was that for you? Right? That's, it's kinda like a waiter just at the end of the meal saying, Hey, how was it? But if you ask some more detailed questions, you're gonna get some more specific feedback. Mm-hmm How was the weight for you? Is everything tasting okay? How you know is your steak cook the way you want it? Was the timing all right? Is there anything else I can get for you that would make this experience more enjoyable? And like a server, if they're more attentive, they don't always have to be saying it, but there are ways to be communicating that attentiveness regardless of just asking a single followup question. I think those are a couple of things on both ends that couples need to keep in mind, the type of feedback you ask says, or the types of questions you're willing to ask after sex, I think says a lot. You know, there have been times when we've had sex where I've thought, I I'm curious about this thing or, we tried this new thing and I kind of wonder, but it can feel a little intimidating to even to bring it up. And so just establishing some practices or just some comfort to be able to bring it up or, Hey, can I ask one thing, or can I ask you to think back to that one moment or when we did this, how was that? What was that like?
Rebecca:Yeah. I like that point that you say the type of questions you ask matter because I think you're right. Sometimes when somebody said, how was that for you? If you're asking that in a way to get like a gold star sticker, Somebody can feel that. So if they think that you're desperate for validation, that you did a good job in that moment, they may feel like. They want to make you happy and say, Oh, yeah, you made me orgasm. It was great. When in reality, if you said, Hey, did that work for you? I'm wondering what would have been better, right? If you're actually asking from a curious place, then the person may feel like they can be a little bit more honest because they know that you're communicating. I'm in this To actually grow, right? Which is a different orientation than I'm asking this so that I can feel good about what happened. And yeah, i often ask clients to give feedback after sex. Say, you know, what do they like? That's a great place to start
Adam:when they have sex, not when yeah. So
Rebecca:I'm not having sex with my clients. Yeah. But no, when my clients are having sex with each other, one of the things often that I encourage them to do, the very first step is to give feedback, give positive feedback after sex. tell them what worked because a lot of times people are having sex and they don't know what worked, right? They may felt good, but they don't know what worked.
and now a word from our sponsors. this podcast is brought to you by hand stuff for when it's too much to take off all your clothes and stuff. Don't forget about us. Don't forget. We're still fun sometimes.
Adam:Well, and we may even be getting ahead of ourselves because when we looked at this group of highly satisfied couples, that was really the first thing that we saw. So we will break down some of the things that we noticed in these couples. We broke down the different communication behaviors, the ways they made decisions in relationships, but also the different outcomes they had and so we coded each of these different areas in their responses. But when we look at the behavior of these couples, this is really the first area. We call it mutual enhancement, which is this idea that both partners are engaged in discussing ways to improve and enhance their sex life. So they have this kind of growth mindset about how they're approaching sex, what outcomes they want to have and being able to explore what is and is not satisfying. Making sure that it works for both partners because there's also this element, I mean, as you were just talking about how hard it is to give some feedback sometimes or even ask feedback, there's this element to sex that can be somewhat performative, right? If I'm playing a character or if I'm in some sort of role or some sort of fantasy. There's a piece to that, that is performative in nature. And so as you're evaluating sex, you're evaluating a performance, but there also is very much an evaluation of the real experience of what's actually happening in the room. And so these are different areas that you need to really be mindful of, the psychological, the technical, the position, where do I put my hand? How do you want me to sit, where should we move or where is this going to go from here? There's almost a lot of science to it that a lot of couples maybe figure out naturally over time as they experiment, but for a lot of people that doesn't come as naturally. And so I think it's helpful to know that the couples that have the best sex they're open to exploring. They're both really working together to, to explore and figure out what are the ways that we can make this even better.
Rebecca:And I would add to that. I think An interesting aspect to that is the assumption that they don't have to have it figured out, right? This idea of a growth mindset, the idea of being in constant communication about what they would like to do, what they would like to try, how to improve. There is almost like a security that it's okay to not Have it all figured out, right? We don't need to already be at the destination where we have perfect sex every time. And so I think this idea that it's a journey together that we're constantly going on and exploring together is such a different orientation. Sometimes i don't know about you, but like sometimes I've heard, friends or other people talk about sex. And sometimes, you read it in the comments. Of course, I read the comments. You don't read comments on social media, but I love the comment section. And sometimes you'll see people and they'll be like, we have sex this many times a day. And, there's a lot of bragging sometimes when it comes to sex. So I think a lot of times people can feel inadequate, like, Oh, we aren't having sex every day. Or, Oh, I wouldn't describe my sex that way. And I think it's interesting that these couples actually have an orientation of, we don't need to be perfect, this is a journey that we take together and that we just consistently keep communicating about and figuring out where we want to go next.
Adam:Right. And this group, what they reported was that they would bring their fantasies to the forefront. And that I think is actually really tough for a lot of people. This world of fantasy can be really intimidating for a lot of couples because it can bring up a lot of fears of is what we're doing not good enough? Have I not been satisfying? Am I not enough for you? And so even delving into fantasy, I think is really scary sometimes for some couples, but the couples that have really satisfying sex, they're open with each other about the fantasies. They're willing to entertain them or what ideas they each have. And sometimes fantasy doesn't come very naturally for some people. And, this group also talked a lot about relying on different resources, sure, whether it's finding a book or finding using pornography to stimulate some ideas or give some ideas of things to try that might be arousing or satisfying, or even going to therapy, but finding resources or tools that can help them explore different ways to build the relationship. And so, it's not that these folks are just naturally great at sex. I think that's a myth to dispel. Every relationship needs to work on this and using the resources at your disposal to be able to figure out how to make this better is a really important point.
Rebecca:Yeah, i thought that was one of the most fascinating findings was the integration of fantasy and I want to qualify because I think sometimes people may think oh, if I just throw resources at my relationship, that'll fix it. Because I've seen couples do that. If I can just get my wife to watch pornography with me, this will fix all of our sexual problems. Right. And I think, that's not what this is. What it is, is it's couples finding what's mutually arousing and then using that in their relationship. So for some couples that was pornography, for some it's games, for some it's therapy, but I think the integration is really key. Sometimes pornography is used in a solo way, so it isn't integrated or somebody is taking their fantasies maybe they're going to a strip club or maybe they're using sex workers or looking at pornography, but their fantasy is actually being experienced outside of the relationship it actually isn't integrated. I think it's really key to note that the fantasy is integrated. It's shared and that's the intimacy part, right? Is that I'm actually letting myself be known by my partner because I'm actually sharing what my fantasy is and not in a way that's like, Hey, I fantasize about doing a threesome. So, You need to do a threesome, right? It's not necessarily that, but it's the honesty and it's the couple figuring out a way. Well, what would that look like for us to integrate the fantasy into our sex? And so maybe that's a role play. It's not that you're, gonna go have sex with your stepmom, but maybe you do a stepmom role play, and that can seem really taboo to somebody. But, i think a lot of times the taboo is arousing, But it's when it's brought to the couple relationship and the fantasy is worked out in the couple relationship that I think a lot of times people have the best sex that they've ever had.
Adam:And it's a good question to ask because oftentimes the extent to which people tend to fantasize about sex can be really different within couples. Yes. And so oftentimes, somebody who fantasizes about sex a lot more can be really intimidated to share ideas with their other partner.
Rebecca:Yeah.
Adam:And so it's a good question of how much of my sexual self, how much of my sexual mind, my sexual ideas, my sexual world, whatever that looks like with all of your fantasies, ideas, your activities, your behaviors, how much of that world does my partner see or know?
Rebecca:Yeah.
Adam:And how much do they understand and are they accepting of? Are they willing to see in me? And so I think couples grow as this idea of mutual enhancement is really an invitation to be vulnerable with each other and to allow yourself to be seen by your partner.
Rebecca:Yeah. So, just to put a cap on our discussion of mutual enhancement, I wanted to note that 78 percent of the highly satisfied couples said that this was a sexual communication behavior that they did. Okay. So almost 80%. So this is really what characterized most of their sexual behaviors or attitudes towards sex was trying to find a way to mutually enhance the sex they were having. The next most common one, which 26 percent of people said that did occur in their relationships with these highly satisfied couples was complaining, which might surprise you, right? And the reason we categorize this as complaining It's because it's the idea that one partner approaches the other partner with some aspect of the relationship that they're dissatisfied with. So that could be frequency. It could be desire levels. It could be any sort of preference, any sort of variety, positions, Role plays, whatever they're dissatisfied with. Someone is approaching the other person in a way that's saying hey, something's off for me. Can we change this? So it doesn't always have to look like complaining ah, you don't give me the sex want. Right. I would say it can be expressed in a mature way. But this is a common Thing. And I think it's common to complain. And I think this is important to note that even highly satisfied couples have to approach their partner and say, Hey, something isn't working for me. And that's because you're two different people with two different libidos and different physical experiences, different stress levels, different responsibilities. And so you are going to have times where you are not in lockstep with your partner and that's okay.
Adam:Yeah. And I think one, nice thing to distinguish is that a complaint doesn't need to be a criticism. And so if I'm criticizing my partner for not giving enough sex, that's a very different thing. But we can be perfectly satisfied and complain that sex isn't happening enough.
Rebecca:Yeah.
Adam:Right. And so it may be helpful to know that, Even if you have a partner that's complaining that they don't get sex as frequently as they would like, or maybe there are different activities that they would like to do that they don't get to do, know that that's okay. They can be perfectly satisfied, and you can both be perfectly satisfied in the relationship, and that's quite normal. Yeah, I think complaining can even be productive in some situations, but the nice thing about complaining is they're talking about it, right? Yes. And what didn't come up very often in these couples, in fact, what was quite low was there were some groups where they just mentioned, we don't even talk about sex, we don't go there. But that was least commonly reported in this group. All that to say, Yeah. Satisfied couples. They're talking about sex. Yeah. It's a crucial component to to sex working well and for both partners being satisfied. So the idea that sex just doesn't even come up might be a sign that if that's going on in your relationship, maybe there's some things to work on. Maybe one or both of you is dissatisfied.
Rebecca:Yeah. Yeah. So it's really rare. For satisfied couples to just not talk about it, to just not have it come up. So if that, if you feel highly satisfied and it's not coming up, you're a unicorn! So that's the exception, not the rule. The rule, suggested by the couples that we interviewed, is that couples that are satisfied talk about this. And I think this is so important because a lot of times, movies, Right, show us, nobody has to talk about it, nobody has to work through it, but if you're in a long term sexual relationship with anybody or with multiple people, it's going to require communication. And that isn't a bad thing. That's not a failure. It doesn't mean that you don't have a hot, steamy sex life. In fact, learning that communication can actually breed creativity, connection, and growth, I think is really key to getting over this barrier, this false idea that happy couples don't have to talk about it. That's such, it's such a lie we're sold. And so we're here to challenge that and let you know it's okay to talk about sex. And in fact, the more you talk about it, The more orgasms you're going to have and so I think you're going to be pretty happy if you talk about it.
This podcast is sponsored by Sundays. Whether it's once a week, once a month, once a year, this is the day you're most likely to do it on. Good luck.
Adam:All the better. Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about how they make decisions in these relationships. Right. Especially related to sex. Cause there are some different ways that popped up, you know, whether it's compromise or manipulating one another into sex or even coercion, gatekeeping where one person kind Whether they have sex or not these were some different processes that came up within the couple and in terms of deciding, do we determine whether sex is even going to happen or not or how we're going to go about sex. And so when it came to decision making processes, we found that sexual relationship building was the most common process. This idea of sexual relationship building is really a way of making decisions where both partners are contributing they're offering suggestions, they're bringing new ideas and honoring boundaries. So it overlaps a lot with that mutual enhancement that we talked about earlier, but rather than just sharing and being seen, This is really the more of the nitty gritty of how are these decisions being made within the couple and and how are we working out differences when when we have them?
Rebecca:I love this quote from one of our participants that said,"if one of us has an idea, then we share it and almost always immediately try it. If it doesn't work for one person, Then we know we can say that we don't like it, but if it's working great for the other person, then the less enjoyer will usually stick it out. So the enjoyer can have a good moment. We do this for each other." And so we saw that time and time again, and these couples where people would talk about an openness to try something and like saying, I'll try anything once, but also the respect to say, Hey, that didn't work for me and the other person being willing to stop if it was painful or something or saying yeah, let's not do that again if it doesn't work for you, we'll find something else that we both like. And so I think there's some nuance in that, that people are asking something that is within the boundaries, right? They're not asking something. So outside of the boundaries, they're not pushing the boundaries. But also a real openness on the part of the partner who's receiving the idea to say, Yeah. Anything you're interested in, like I'm willing to explore that with you. And so I think it just shows an openness, a level of safety in the relationship as well.
Adam:I think so. Yeah. It makes me think of some situations where, a partner might bring something up and it's completely outside of another partner's Yeah. Yeah. realm of possibility, right? Maybe you're not willing to try something that a partner brings up. Maybe it seems too overwhelming or too scary or you're disgusted by it. Or maybe it feels past a personal or even religious boundary that maybe you don't feel comfortable crossing. And so I think in some of those situations, it's really just important to keep, to, to figure out what is it that's going to keep me conversation, or if my partner brings up something to me that completely disgusts or scares or frightens me, how do I remain curious? And how do I remain open negotiating and exploring in a way that doesn't tell my partner that they're deviant or disgusting. And if it becomes too much of a hurdle these are conversations we have in therapy quite a bit. Where it's not uncommon that partners might just disagree on a particular a particular idea that somebody has about their sexual relationship and it can feel really divisive. You know, the nice thing about even coming to therapy about it is it shows that both people are willing to work on it. Both people are at least willing to hear the other partner out, even if it feels like it's outside the realm of my possibility. I'm still going to try to pull on some of those resources and get some help on how do we work through this together rather than turning away, shutting off or really denying the opportunity to get to know your partner better.
Rebecca:Yeah. That's a real sticky point and I'm glad you brought that up because I do see that happen in people coming into therapy with this issue. But I've also seen it in friends as well, where it is really difficult when some particular sexual act is proposed and it's completely shut down by the other, and it. And it is a lot of times the person who's wanting something, a lot of times they can feel like what I'm asking for is not unique. Sometimes it's like, I want you to give me oral and I've given you oral sex. And so it can feel like, how is this disgusting to you? You're receiving this from me, but you're not willing to give it right. Or whatever it is. And so a lot of times. I think you do want to be careful about, how do I receive my partner's ideas, right? Do I attempt to stay open and curious or does my own shame and disgust? Do I just choose to not filter that and and just let my partner bear the brunt of shamed for being open and taking a chance and being vulnerable with what they experience. A lot of sexual thoughts, ideas, desires, or interests They are, they can be taboo. And so you want to create the most safety that you can in the relationship so that your partner can be honest with you. And, it's unfortunate when sometimes maybe our own shame and own feelings of disgust about our sexuality. It's really easy to project that onto a partner so that we don't have to really sort through it.
Adam:Yeah, exactly. And, something that's interesting in this group is when couples disagree or they just have differences between them, there can be a lot of compromise, and so we mentioned earlier this idea of being willing to try anything that the other brings up, but compromise is really when we have a successful meeting in the middle. And so this is an ongoing process that happens on a repeated basis where we both have maybe different baselines of interest in having sex or different ideas of what's satisfying during sex. And we find that we had about a quarter of even the most satisfied couples That still reported compromise quite often. One of the funny quotes here is one of the participants who's a man said,"we use a reward system. I love doing the dishes now." Right? And so, some people may be reactive to that that he has to earn sex but I think that this works really well in some couples. Right. And there are a lot of situations where a lot of women might say, if I'm going to be able to engage in sex, I really need to be able to not be thinking about the dishes. And so they're very well, May naturally be, in opportunity for a compromise there where I'll do the dishes and and that'll allow you to be more present during sex. And for a lot of people that can work seamlessly.
Rebecca:Yeah. You know, you saying that reminds me, there was a time when My, my late husband, Isaac had i had, I don't know what kid it was with, but obviously I was tired after having children and I was taking a nap probably like every day and he's like kind of saying something that felt a little judgmental about the nap and I remember saying something. I was like, Hey yeah, I take a nap. If you want to have sex at night, you better not talk about my nap because to me, I was making choices, right? Like I wanted to have energy to be able to connect with my partner at night. And I knew that if I didn't take a nap, then i was going to fall asleep on the couch. Right. But instead it's like I was choosing where to rest and where to put my energy, and I think men may be pretty unaware of how much women have to do that, right? There's so many responsibilities on the modern woman. Often she's doing extra at home. And she's also working now and there's children. And so even though I think a lot of people aim to have an equitable distribution of work in the household, a lot of times I think if your wife is saying, i need you to help out more. I think she's being honest about that. She really is quite stressed or so fatigued. She doesn't have the mental or emotional space to fantasize, to get aroused. And so I think for this couple, it really worked. And to me, they're an example of, she learned how to Ask for what she needed from a partner and maybe it looks like this exchange, but in reality she probably just needed more rest to be able to allow for that sexuality of hers to really have more desire. And so it worked for both of them. And so that may be something you want to talk to your partner about is what would it look like for you to have rest? What do you need to be able to tap into your sexuality? Because a lot of times it's stress levels that get in the way, and that would be important, I think, for both partners.
Adam:Another thing I think is interesting about these couples, may go without saying, but i think it can be important to note that the couples that are really satisfied, We don't see manipulation. So using guilt or pressure to get the other partner to engage in sex or coercion or even gatekeeping which is Where the decision making is really controlled by one partner, right? We'd see several responses in other groups where there might be some things like this partner just decides, this partner decides when they want it And when they want it, we have it. And we didn't really see that in the satisfied couples either. So I think it can be helpful to note that again somebody might be listening to this thinking, which group do I fall in and where might I fall if I were to be in one of these groups? If if you're noticing some of those behaviors, those might be things you work on.
Rebecca:Yeah, I think it shows the importance of eradicating that, right? If you are resorting to manipulation, you're probably a pretty good candidate for therapy. So if there's manipulation, gatekeeping, coercion, a lot of those things suggest that you probably need to learn other ways to communicate your needs and work on those processes of making sexual decisions with your partner. You're going to probably need some, some help. outside help is what I would recommend. Mm hmm. Yeah.
Why don't you go green? You and your partner can save, help save the planet by using a condom that will reduce plastic waste by 85%. Yes, I know 85 percent of plastic is not all condoms. But trust me, if you use this, you will make a difference. Wakanda forever. The condom that is one condom forever.
Rebecca:Well, let's hop into the last area, which is sexual communication outcomes. So this is, when we looked at the couples, we wanted to know where did they land? When they're having this orientation towards sex and these are the ways they're behaving and the way they're making decisions, what is the outcome of those decisions? And we found that in this group of highly satisfied couples, connection and improvement were the two most common outcomes for these couples. I do want to point out what's really interesting is that connection was an outcome for 56%. I think that's interesting because you might think it would be higher, but really only 56 percent of people volunteered this information that this was a result. And there's one quote from a participant that I think really captures what this looks like for about half of these couples. They said,"It's become deeper and more meaningful. We just have an understanding of one another that comes with being with each other as long as we have. And we've both been completely loyal to each other. So that bond just gets stronger all the time." So you can see that over time this constant investment in the sexual relationship results in an emotional closeness that just grows over time. And that was really meaningful. for a little over half of these couples. And so I think that's important to note that this was definitely the group that had the highest levels of emotional connection, but it also begs the question, why is it only at 56%? But yeah, let's talk about improvement because that was more common in these couples.
Adam:Yeah it's interesting to contrast that because people may have different ideals in terms of if they're talking about sex, what they want to get out of it.
Rebecca:Yeah.
Adam:Are we sharing these ideas to get closer? And some people reported that. But, but. For the most part, the idea of sexual communication really led to improvement. And so, this was much more common. We had about 85 percent of people report that when they talked about sex, things got better. They saw improvement in their sexual performance or they saw improvement, they were more comfortable even talking about sex a little bit more and their physical connection grew. So rather than just the emotional side of things, things improved. We saw, somebody say I now have a climax and for years I didn't, right? And so they find ways to actually make sex more satisfying and things get better. That might be an important distinction here is being able to talk about sex really improves how satisfying sex is. It ties into some of the things we've talked about in articles or in other episodes. Whereas it may not always improve the relationship.
Rebecca:Yes. Mm hmm. It doesn't always change the emotional connection. It changes the sexual connection. Mm hmm. Yeah. I think that's an interesting finding because I think a lot of times we probably think of couples that are highly satisfied as having a perfect emotional and sexual connection. But maybe that isn't the case. And also maybe that isn't always the goal, right? Some people may not report that because they may have already felt that they had a good emotional connection. So it really wasn't about that. It was about improving the sexual connection. But I think it also echoes what we started the episode off with, which is that a lot of times I think when people are approaching sex, the orgasm, the actual amount of pleasure they derive from the sexual experience is pretty important. That is where the focus is, is making sure that this aspect of the relationship is strong. And while it's overlapping for a lot with the emotional connection, it isn't always for all couples.
Adam:I think it just helps expand the avenue somebody might have in improving their relationship, right? If you're trying to get better at sex and you're thinking, Oh, we just need to spend more time together or we need to go on a vacation together. Some of those things if it's not actually, impacting how often you're going to be discussing your sexual relationship, then it may not have the impact you're hoping for. Yeah. So I think individuals also therapists, I think a lot of times therapists will assume i've even made this mistake in therapy. I remember having a couple come in and they initially came in because they were having sexual issues and they had some emotional issues. And we talked a lot about the emotional issues and they started to connect a lot more and I'm starting to think, Hey they're about ready to be done with therapy. And I say, so what else do we have to work on? And I think the husband had been holding this in for months after we'd been working together and finally said. You know, we still just are not there when it comes to sex, right? And so even I was assuming, I think they really did need to address some of the emotional problems in the relationship before it probably would have been helpful to address their sexual relationship. I think he agreed with that.
Rebecca:Yeah.
Adam:But even I made that mistake of working on the emotional connection for so long and completely ignoring how things were in terms of sex. And even as, therapists might assume that just as things get better within the relationship, that naturally, the sexual relationship's going to improve. And I don't think it does. I think it really needs to be something that's discussed independently. And I think a lot of times people may make that mistake. So it's important to be mindful If you want things to get better, you gotta talk about the sex and you got to open those avenues for exploring that.
Rebecca:Yeah, along those same lines, one thing I tell people is sex is so interesting because we don't get practice talking about sex. Like I think about the things we do to help our children gain financial literacy, right? Like we started paying our kids an allowance, helping them learn how to save their money, give it away for charity and how to determine their spending. there's ways that as a child, we learn how to talk about finances with our parents, but we're not navigating a sexual relationship with anybody else until we're in a sexual relationship. And then so many times in our youth, one, we're not mature enough to talk about sex. Sure. And then sometimes the relationships don't last long enough for us to start talking about sex. So sometimes, whoever you're with right now, this may be the first time you're in a relationship where you can actually even communicate about it. So I think it's important to give yourself a lot of space, a lot of grace that this is a new skill that you're cultivating and it does require, even for therapists, to actually help people build this skill set to talk about sex because they probably have zero experience talking about sex. This is a brand new territory.
Adam:Yeah, I think it is. And so it might be helpful to think about how somebody gets into this group, right? If you've been listening and you're just sitting here with envy thinking, Oh boy, I wish i could be in this group, but I'm not.
Rebecca:You want to be in the exclusive club. Exactly. Of highly satisfied couples.
Adam:And maybe naturally you have some things you want to work on. And we'll talk about these other groups too. And give some suggestions for moving into some of those different groups. But it may be helpful to talk about two things. If you're in this group, what do you do to keep sex interesting? How do you stay in the group? And then also, how do you get into this group? So I think maybe as we talk about some of the other groups, we will explore a little bit more how to maybe move from group to group how to, address some of the common problems with some of the other groups. But But but it may be helpful to, just to dive in and talk a little bit about staying in the group. What do you think?
Rebecca:Well, I think as far as staying in the group, I think it's bringing some awareness to what you're doing that works. You're listening to this podcast. So as you're listening to this, you may say, Oh, we do that. Oh, we do that. That's great. So now you can actually name it and I think being able to name something or being able to register that will help you to know that when stressful, when life gets, when things start to get in the way, now you know, Oh no, I need to be focused on mutual enhancement. I need to be focused on staying open. I need to be bringing my ideas to my partner, not holding my fantasies inside, but actually contributing when we talk about sex, so I think now that you can name it, hopefully when things start to get in the way, you can remind yourself, Oh, this is what I do that makes it so that I have the sex life that I want.
Adam:Yeah. It's interesting you say that. I was thinking about several times in therapy where one of my favorite questions to ask just, Something that's oftentimes most helpful is to just ask couples, couples who are coming in with a lot of distress. It can be helpful to ask about when times were good. and the funny thing about asking that question is when couples are really struggling. When I ask them, how were things when they were good? Or, what were some of the most satisfying sexual experiences early on? Or what was most, what was most interesting or exciting about sex with this person? You see them light up. It's fun to talk about it. And often times these couples that can't even look at each other. They're sitting on opposite couches, opposite sides of the room. When they come into therapy. Now They're looking at each other, they're laughing, engaging with each other as they're remembering some of these good experiences. And so those are helpful things to think about, right? To remember what's gone well and why things have gone well in the past. Especially if you are struggling.
Rebecca:I will say though, there are couples that sometimes come in. And they really can't recall any time that it was good. Oh, yes. Sometimes couples have always struggled with sex. And so, that is, I would say trickier, right? Because you don't have a recipe that you know has worked in the past. So it does make it hard because you don't even know like the building blocks of what you like. So that is a little trickier. And I would say if you've never, if you really can't recall and you don't think that's just your current feelings. Sometimes people will, have altered their memory, right? Maybe they did have good times and now that they're so upset with their partner, they can't recall them. But if you really have always struggled, I really recommend you go to a sex therapist and you get help because it will, it's going to be really difficult to get there on your own. You're really going to probably need some guidance and some help. And there's no shame in asking for help. A lot of us like I said earlier, for a lot of us, this is brand new territory. There may be trauma in the past. So there's a lot of things that probably need to be addressed in order to be successful and that's okay.
Adam:You mentioned this third category here, Where I've also had couples that, when they start working on their sexual relationship and reconnecting with each other, they'll come back and they'll say, I could not remember for the life of me anything that was satisfying about our relationship in the beginning, but now I'm remembering all of these wonderful experiences, and sexual experiences we've had together. And that's been the most exciting thing about reconnecting. So, so that's maybe promising as well.
Rebecca:Yeah. Just as you say that, my heart like felt warmer. It's like, so sweet when you, when you see people reconnect in that way, because everybody who gets married or commits to their partner does that with the hope that this will last, right? There's so hopeful going in. And so when people start to feel disconnected, it is so distressing because Yeah. They really had so much hope and promise. And so when you can help someone get back to that, it's so satisfying for them. And it's so heartwarming to witness.
Adam:Yeah.
Keeping it up with the Joneses is brought to you with the kind support of, has your government been sending hundreds of millions of dollars to give condoms to Hamas? I'm so sorry. That ends today. That is right with this reusable vibranium condom that is Reeb for her pleasure. With what Wakanda forever, we will unilaterally end government waste spending on condoms. You listen to me, Elon Musk. I will help you eliminate government waste. We will teach you how to do this the Wakandan way. The way to do it is not to buy Hamas, the condoms. You get the good vibranium condoms, the same stuff making Captain America's shield. We have technology. We can share with the world, Elon. We will help you see a better way. One condom. Forever.
Adam:And I think one element that helps keep these couples in this satisfied group is finding new ways to continually open, keeping that door open to exploring and getting to know each other, right? But one, one way you have to do that is you have to continue to find novelty, sexual novelty in the relationship. And that can be really tricky to do, especially if you've known each other a long time and so cracking out a cosmo or just reading about different positions or different ideas might not be appealing to some people that have been in a sexual relationship a long time because they might say, well, we know what works and what doesn't work. And so, we're gonna close that off. But I actually think it's really important for couples to keep that door open and to continue to explore because. You really forget a lot about yourself and you don't realize how much you change over time, and I think a lot of times couples get in this trap of thinking we know what works. We kind of have this routine and we go through our routine, but if you think about yourself and even think who you were five years ago, are you the same person? Do you have all the same beliefs? Do you like the same, the exact same things you did five years ago? The answer is probably going to be no, right? You're going to, you're going to find that you've changed quite a bit as a person. And so, I think this is where we would recall back to those behaviors of mutual enhancement and sharing those fantasies and really, sharing who you are with your partner, who you are sexually with your partner and continuing to update your ideas of each other and who your partner is or what your partner likes. Yeah. I think that's really important. And so that opens the door to trying new things and to exploring new things. There was actually something recently that we did together that after I thought, Oh, I think Rebecca's actually told me she doesn't like that. And so after what I had to ask, I was like, what did you think about that? I want to, I want to check and see. And you said, Oh no, I liked it. I said, Oh good. Right. So I think that's something to keep updating and so now I have this idea of, okay, now the options are open or we can explore this or, refer back to it. Well, can I comment?
Rebecca:Because also, what was interesting is when you did ask me that afterwards not only was I able to give you an answer so you knew, right? Like you took a chance trying something and then you were like, Oh no, I think she said maybe she doesn't like that. And then you were able to find out that, no, that was okay. I also feel like it was trust building for you to ask, even though, it was fine and I didn't think, Oh, he should ask me about this. When you did check in. I think it did make me feel that much more safe. Like, Oh, if he tries something and he's not sure if I'm going to like it or not, I can trust that he's going to ask afterwards whether or not that worked for me. It also took the pressure on some level off me to be like, if I didn't like something,
Adam:You have to be the one to speak up.
Rebecca:I have to issue a complaint, right? And then does that come off as criticism? So I think that whole exchange just, again, it's so subtle. It's one question, but it did so much for the relationship, right? So I think those are like the little building blocks that you want to add to your relationship that help you, yeah, to feel safe, and it may sound so Contradictory that feeling safe leads to adventure, right? But I promise you it does there, especially for, I would say women can be more erotic when they feel safe. The woman's prefrontal cortex is active during sex, so her ability to take chances requires that she can feel safe enough with her partner. And so I think the more people can understand that, that safety actually breeds creativity and adventure. It's right, like it's the launching off point. If I feel safe and secure, then I can try new things, it's like the kid who knows mom is always going to be there. I can go to the playground. I can go make new friends because I know if anything goes wrong, I can come back to mom. It's similar to that idea of attachment. If I know I'm safe with my partner, We can try anything and I know that however it works out, I'm going to be okay in the end.
Adam:Yeah. To get really technical that makes me think of the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system, right? Okay. Yeah. And which, the sympathetic nervous system is the system in your body that reacts when you're under stressful circumstances. And especially arousal. And a lot of times we think of arousal as this really exciting that would be great for sex, right? Yeah. But it's actually, as we've explored sexual arousal quite a bit more, the parasympathetic nervous system, which is the brake pedal for the body, it's the rest and digest, the part that slows the heartbeat and facilitates digestion and helps your body essentially know that things are safe and they're okay. That is what facilitates our sexual arousal. And so there can be this kind of interplay between heightened arousal. So there can be this element of risk or some people may feel that they do need to have an element of risk or arousal in order to enjoy sex, but anybody in those circumstances still needs to be aware that it needs to be within the confines where you can relax and your body needs to be able to engage that para sympathetic nervous system in order to climax, right? Yeah. Anyway, I won't dive into that too deep into that, but maybe what's happening in the body is that's where safety really allows for exploration and really allows for new experience.
Rebecca:Well, I appreciate you saying that because I think that's where a lot of couples get it wrong. I think a lot of times I see heterosexual men trying to arouse their partners in the way that they get aroused and it doesn't work that way. Yeah Yeah, your partner needs to be able to feel relaxed and calm and a lot of times she doesn't need to go work all day, do the kids, and then watch a porn to arouse her. She's already in a very aroused state In fact, if she needs anything, she needs to be able to relax come down and then she can get aroused So, I see a lot of Men trying to get her more aroused when in reality she needs more rest, more calm, and then she'll be able to get there in the way her body needs to. And not that some women don't like porn. I'm not saying that's not true, but it's very different when it's coming from a partner who's trying to say, Hey, you need more arousal than it is when it's you're like, this works for me. I think that's very different. Yes. So along those lines, do we want to talk a little bit about i mean, you kind of talked about what do you do to stay in this group, but let's talk about what would you do if you'd like to see both of you more satisfied, let's talk just briefly about the steps people can start to take now to get closer to being in that group if they're not already there.
Adam:Yeah. I think some of the things we've mentioned already, right? Mutual enhancement, being open and sharing with each other, sexual relationship building, making sure you're making the decisions together. Yeah. And, you're both willing to bring ideas to the table, right? And so paying attention to who is contributing and how are both people showing up to this equation I think is really important.
Rebecca:Can I mention something specific about that? I think I see, and I'll be curious what you say you see clinically, but I think a lot of times In American culture, especially Christianity is really big in the U. S. as well. And so some of this may be coming from a religious perspective, but a lot of times there is a lot of shaming of women's sexuality. So don't be a slut, don't be a whore, be a virgin when you get married or if you do have sex before, you need to have it with the right amount of partners, right? Not too many to be a slut, but not too few to be inexperienced. So there's this delicate line I think women have to walk regarding their sexuality. And so then I think there's this idea of boys will be boys, right? And so there's this idea that men can act sexually, however, makes sense for them. And there's never too much, right? If it's too much, they're a player, but don't worry, they can be reformed in every chick flick, right? So, men have this latitude to be fully sexual and women have to be sexual in a very particular way. And so when they end up in a long term relationship, sometimes what I see is that the men are often the initiators of all ideas, of all new positions, right? A lot of times, they're the ones contributing most of the ideas. And then that creates an interesting dynamic where it has the man being demanding and the woman can become a gatekeeper, like is my answer yes or no. But a lot of times I see this where women are not bringing in ideas And in fact, they don't really feel freedom to think about what they like or what they want And so this creates such an interesting dynamic in heterosexual relationships. But I think that if you're in that dynamic, as a woman, I would, and if you're the man in that relationship, I would really sit down and have a discussion about, what do we need to change, so that this is more balanced? What does she need to be able to have more freedom to think about what's interesting to her? Because a lot of times that space was never given to her in any context before you and so then now the man becomes part of that system by the overwhelm of his ideas, his dump of his own ideas. She then feels either. One she ops out of creating her own ideas or she feels like there's no room for her ideas. So I think really thinking about how do we create more space for her to be someone who's contributing ideas and fantasies and desires, I think is really going to be really critical for a lot of hetero couples.
Adam:I think so. It's a real shame that we're so hetero focused in this podcast. I know that some of the research we've been doing, but we'll have to explore some more. Yeah. Yeah, do several episodes in the future where we're talking a lot more about same sex relationships or queer relationships, non binary relationships where these dynamics still exist, but it's different because there are maybe different scripts or different expectations of what people are bringing to the relationship.
Rebecca:Yeah. Well, and some of the dynamics don't exist in the same way, right? And so, you may be feeling left out if you're not hetero. I do think it is so important to address each of those dynamics, which is why, right? We're doing research currently on LGBTQ couples and their sexual communication because it is unique and we want to make sure we're accurate. That we're not just saying everybody's like hetero couples. They're not right. It is unique. And so we want to be able to speak more accurately to that. Yeah. Yeah. Other things couples can do to move towards being more highly satisfied?
Adam:Nope.
Rebecca:Nothing. Oh, there was one thing I wanted to mention. I think one thing that could be also helpful to talk about is boundaries. A lot of times we find out about someone's sexual boundaries when someone crosses it. So like sometimes I'll hear somebody say that's cheating that person messaged someone on Facebook But they'd never had a discussion about is it okay to message other people on Facebook or They may say that person cheated, they looked at porn. Have we ever had a discussion about is porn cheating, or is that an individual sexual behavior? So a lot of times or if somebody's saying, Hey, I want to try a strap on, and the other person's like, Whoa, no, that is not an option. A lot of times, we don't talk about the boundaries proactively, we talk about them when we're in shock, when we're in a place of shame or disgust, or hurt, or betrayal. And so another thing I think that could be useful for you guys to talk about is just opening up a conversation. and What do you think about all these different things? Whether it's parameters of the relationship in terms of what do I want monogamy to look like for us, or what do I want polyamory to look like for us, or, what positions are interesting to me, what fantasies, what role plays, I just think a lot of times. We don't talk about those and then when we do, it ends up being damaging to the relationship because we don't expect it. So I think if you can more clearly communicate about your boundaries and also not in such a rigid way of, I'll never do this. I have zero interest in this at this time. And you can talk about, well, why is that? Why is that really interesting to you, but it's not interesting to you. And maybe in those discussions, you can discover Why something might be worth trying or why really your partner isn't open to that. And really it should be off the table because maybe that'll cause a lot of pain. And so it's not even worth trying because it's just not a good idea, right? For your partner's, health or whatnot. So, that's one more thing I would add that I think is really key.
Adam:Yeah, I think it can be helpful to think about boundaries in a couple of different ways, but one way is, a boundary is something that you put up to protect yourself. I think that's where a lot of the discussion of boundaries ends, right? We talk about boundaries as, I, I set this boundary and you're crossing my boundary. And so, you are therefore violating my boundary. Right. And I actually really like some of the different ways of discussing boundaries, especially in relationships. But even when it comes to a personal boundary, I think what you're doing is you're setting a limit, not just to protect yourself, but to be able to dictate how you engage with others, which informs what you need to do, where you need to set a line so that you can approach other people with curiosity and with openness. I think that's something to consider in terms of those boundaries. If you're going to say no To a sexual idea, that's not just a way of protecting yourself from having to do something you don't want to do. You set a line there to say I don't want to do this, but the boundary is here so that I can still be curious about my partner. And so me saying a boundary is not just closing off and saying, your idea sucks and I don't want to do your idea. It's this is where I have to set a line right now so that I can still be open to working with you. Yeah. So that if you say something, I'm not going to have to either ignore a part of myself that doesn't want to do that or is not ready for that, but I also don't have to ignore this part of you that really wants to share this thing with me. And so I can be open to seeing the best you have to offer.
Rebecca:Yeah.
Adam:So that's one way I like to think about boundaries is it's not so much this personal line you draw as it is a way of delineating the separation between you and me and where do you end and I begin, and I draw a line so that I know where I am ending so that you can be separate from me and I can see you as separate from me. And we don't have to have the same feeling about something.
Rebecca:Yeah. I like that conceptualization of boundaries and I think what it does is it also allows me if I'm the person who's being asked to do something and I don't want to do that, I think it actually says I'm taking ownership, like you present an idea to me, and I don't know if I'm going to be comfortable with it, but I'm willing to engage in the conversation. I'm not saying you're wrong for wanting that, but it is this idea of I'm willing to engage with this and do whatever I need to do so that we both walk away from this interaction feeling good about whatever we decide, whether we try it or we don't. But it is, yeah, it seems like a for me to work on it. Not just shut you down.
Adam:Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Great. Well, I'm glad we explored these couples. I had much more to say than I thought I would. So
Rebecca:sure.
Adam:We'll I'm sure our our listeners are probably ready to move on.
Rebecca:Don't worry. A lot of this gets cut out, so it's fine. Yeah. Yeah. It ends up being shorter than you think it is. Well, thanks for joining us today and listening to how highly satisfied couples communicate about sex. We're, we hope this information was helpful to you and helps you learn how to either maintain the satisfaction that you have in your relationship or learn how to grow it. We really appreciate it. And thank you for Listening to Keeping It Up With The Joneses. Thank you for listening to Keeping it Up with the Joneses. For more content, follow us on Instagram or Facebook. If you enjoyed what you heard today, please do these three things. First, subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or your favorite podcast platform. Second, rate and review the podcast, and third, share your favorite episode with a partner, friend, or family member. We are grateful for your support and look forward to joining you next week. Until then, keep it up. One of them is basically the kiss of death for intimacy.
Adam:Oh, wow. So which one is that?
Rebecca:Huh. That would be disengagement.
Adam:Disengagement. When one
Rebecca:partner just
Adam:shuts down any attempt to even talk about sex with them. It creates this wall of frustration, you know? Yeah. Imagine feeling like your needs are just completely ignored.
Rebecca:I see.
Adam:It's a recipe for disaster. Yeah,
Rebecca:for sure.
Adam:And unfortunately, this study found it's more common than we might think.
Rebecca:Really?
Adam:Especially when women are dissatisfied.
Rebecca:That makes you wonder, like Right. Right. Why are women more likely to disengage? Right. Is it societal pressure? Oh my gosh, what if they're better than us? Or is it something else entirely? What do you think?
Adam:Well, it's a complex issue.
Rebecca:Yeah.
Adam:But the study suggests that traditional gender roles definitely play a part.
Rebecca:Okay.
Adam:Women are often conditioned to be more passive about sex.
Rebecca:Huh.
Adam:While men are encouraged to be the initiators. Right. So when women are unhappy, they might feel hesitant to speak up, meaning to that disengagement factor. It's like they're stuck in a double bind. But here's the silver lining. The study also found a communication style that's like a magic potion for relationships.
Rebecca:They call it mutual
Adam:enhancement. Yes, the gold standard. These couples, they talk openly and positively about sex. Focusing on what feels good. Okay. Well, well, I guess it gives us some ideas. This magic potion, gold standard, even concerns. Right, and here's the kicker. Okay. The study found a strong correlation between mutual enhancement and relationship. Let's just listen to this part. So it's like, it's like a positive feedback loop. Okay. Good communication leads to good sex, which leads to even better communication.
Rebecca:Okay, I'm officially adding mutual enhancement to my relationship vocabulary.
Adam:I just thought I would play a little bit for you. I had uploaded it.
Rebecca:Well, what do you think about that? Yeah.
Adam:I just thought it might be interesting to see kinda what AI pointed out as a good way to of like, things to emphasize from our article.
Rebecca:I had
Adam:wanted to listen to it this morning, but I didn't get to.
Rebecca:Oh, you hadn't heard it?
Adam:Yeah.
Rebecca:Oh, wow. In case you're listening
Adam:to it, but it's another 13 minutes.
Rebecca:Okay, that was kind of weird. I was like, wait a second. I thought, I'm not gonna lie, I thought maybe you were playing a podcast by that Vanessa Martin podcaster. That's why I was like, oh my gosh, are they talking about our study on their podcast?
Adam:Oh, interesting. Or,
Rebecca:i don't know. Something else you didn't know is that I actually already posted the podcast, right? We haven't announced it yet, but I also wasn't sure live. I wasn't sure if somebody, another podcast was talking about our podcast. Like they had found our episode. So I was like, Oh my gosh, already. I think it just went live yesterday on Spotify, but I haven't even told anybody. So anyway, so then I was like, Oh my gosh. Anyway, you're volume seems really loud. Oh,
Adam:Okay. Okay, how do I sound now?
Rebecca:Do I sound better? Yeah, it sounds a lot better. Okay.
Adam:You can hear my deep, sultry voice?
Rebecca:Yeah. In fact, the other day, the other day you were talking, and it felt so low, I, like, couldn't hear what you were saying. I couldn't understand you. Well, now you're mumbling. Okay, that feels like that's going to be you when you're like 75, 80. I'm going to be like, Hey, Adam, you want something? And you're going to be like, I'm just going to guess. He said, yeah,
Adam:that's kind of what we do now anyway, though. So.
Rebecca:That might be true.
Adam:it may not be too different. You're going to be like, okay, I guess I'll just do it. I was going to do anyway.
