I'm Judith, and this is the Starline Equine Bodywork podcast. This is a podcast about all of the things that I've learned and continue to learn in my career with horses. For the better part of a decade, I've been a full time equine bodywork practitioner, educator, and author. My obsession how horses really work and how to get the most from our relationship with them in training and in sport. My passion helping horse owners, body workers and aspiring body workers get going. Unpack the latest science, research and experiences behind what we do with horses to support their potential and optimize their performance. Biosecurity is a really big concern, not only for horse owners and barn owners, but it really should be as body workers with mobile businesses going from farm to farm. Joining us today is special guest doctor Megan Donati of Bennett Equine in Cambridge, Ontario. To talk to us a little bit more about how to keep our horses and our clients horses and our facilities safe from disease and illness. Thank you so much for joining us, Doctor Megan. Thanks for having me. So first things first, if you are a busy facility owner and you have a lot of traffic coming into your barn, a lot of foot traffic, horses going in and out to horse shows in clinics and events and farriers and body workers and veterinarians and visitors and friends and boarders who potentially have been at other farms, freelance trainers coming on to your facility, the fear of having an illness or an outbreak in your farm is real. Absolutely. Yeah. And, I think in a lot of ways it can be managed and even prevented. So I was hoping you could give us some tips for let's start with the larger facilities. What are some things that larger facilities can do in order to keep the borders horses safe? I think the first thing that we can all do is just making sure horses are vaccinated. Of course, that's not going to cover every virus and things that they might be coming in contact with. But we have some very, you know, important and common diseases and illnesses that can be prevented with vaccines. And we kind of kind of owe it to our horses to do that. Due diligence, especially when they are in these busier facilities, you know, going, you know, to horse shows and trailering and coming in contact with, with, with everyone. I think that's a really easy thing that we can do, to protect our herd and kind of create, a herd health there. also making sure that anyone new to the to the farm, any horses are isolated when they come in. Of course, a horse can look healthy on arrival and then, you know, start showing signs of illness after that. So making sure that those horses are kind of kept away from, from everyone else for, you know, ideally are 2 to 3 weeks if possible. that can really help kind of keep the herd safe. So like a quarantine situation essentially. Exactly. So that would include their own paddock, their own equipment for cleaning stalls. Yeah. And any staff that touches those horses before they return to the non quarantine horses, they would have a protocol to go through. Absolutely. Yep. And hopefully handling those horses last if possible. Right. Okay. So we're not cross contaminating within our quarantine facility. Within our bigger facility. Yes okay. All right. Okay. So it includes not only horse horse contact but staff to horse to other horse contact okay. Yes. All right. Perfect. Now how do you feel about foot baths when you walk into a farm? I think the idea of them is fantastic. However, when they look muddy and brown, their efficacy. I don't think, is there. so we need to make sure that those are properly made up and frequently replaced because it takes, you know, only a few people stepping in until they get that really dirty look and then they are going to work. we also need to make sure that when we put our shoes in, they aren't covered in mud and manure because the disinfectant isn't going to work through organic matter like that. and so it's not going to have the effect that we, we want at all. and just because we dip and keep walking, they know that bacteria and viruses can still be on there. It does take a few minutes, possibly up to ten minutes for those viruses and bacteria to actually die, and not be spread. That's something you see currently. People literally just dip and keep walking and or step right back into where they came. Yes, exactly. So they have to come in, with moderately clean boots. They have to ideally make sure all of the organic material is off the boots stand in the in the dip and then step out into a clean area and stand there for 5 to 10 minutes, depending on what cleaning agent we have there before they continue. And that's both going into the barn and I would say probably likely ideally going out of the barn too. So you're not taking stuff with you to other properties or even into your car, right. The mats in your car, the cars or comments. Yep. Absolutely. You gave your car the cooties. So okay, so vaccination potentially foot baths, quarantine, in larger facilities, things that borders could do, maybe, things that come to mind for me. Don't touch other people's horses. Absolutely. Even though their head sticking out, even though their noses and their reaching out to you, we don't need to pet every nose as we walk down the stall aisle. As tempting as as it can be. especially when we get into these bigger barns that maybe they have foals. Maybe they have immunocompromised or older horses. you know, you don't know what another horse has been vaccinated with or not or how their immune system is. And we don't need to go around and touch all of them. I think that's that's definitely a big thing. We don't need to use other people's brushes. You know, we can keep ours and keep them at that barn so they don't go from barn to barn. Same with equipment, if we can. making sure that we have kind of our own things and just minimize as little, as much as we can that we touch. That's such good advice, right? The the idea that people just take all of their stuff and throw it in the trunk of their car and take it off to the next barn. especially if you're a freelance writer, being really cognizant of, that cross-contamination is, I think, vital to keeping things from becoming, you know, big local outbreaks. of different illnesses. Now, you mentioned equipment and we've touched on, the car and, a little bit about shared spaces. one of the other things is shared water sources. and share, you know, when people make up, treat buckets, and they say with your horse like a little bit and then they go, you know, it's it's a sort of like sharing a soda can in a kindergarten class. It's, it's not a good idea. but you do see that quite a bit. And so as horse owners, I think that's another thing. Now, for private horse owners, to keep their horses safe, other than the equipment, is there anything that they should really know, and be recording about their horses? Normal state that, will help you if there is an outbreak of some type of illness. Absolutely. Knowing a general TPR and what your horses normals are on a on a day to day basis is really important. So, you know, knowing that a horse's heart rate is around 40, knowing that the rest rate is around 12. And you know, you can easily count arrest rate, you know, just from standing outside the stall, knowing their temperature where kind of sits and when it starts to creep up, knowing that that a normal horse, a horse's normal temperatures around 37.5°C to 38.5, you know, have a temperature is a really easy way to to find illness. And some horses will show you when they have a fever. Very obvious, and others are better at masking it. but knowing those TPR and being able to kind of track them, can really help alert things sooner than later. and be very helpful. Right? In that crucial time, right before we become super spreaders through the whole barn and we can really get on those illnesses and treating those illnesses before they become, just horrendous. Right? now, as body workers, we are going from barn to barn to barn to barn. Are there questions we should be asking our clients before we go into these facilities? Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of us that that go barn to barn and being able to ask, I think, you know, is your horse appearing healthy? Has there been any recent changes, kind of those little prompts to see if anything comes up there and then asking, you know, is there anything new to the farm recently? Is everyone else appearing healthy? Is there any concerns? You know, I think even just asking those questions as as obvious as they may seem, might get owners thinking about it because, you know, for sometimes it's not something that that comes to other people's minds that we are going to different farms and, you know, potentially putting others at risk. and having that come to come to their mind and attention to let us know about it and ways things are spread, through, nose to nose contact, through, the air itself, through manure. what are ways that things are spread? So as body workers, we can be really sure not to touch those things. And, you know, if we step in manure, if we, you know, these things. is there anything that we should be aware of? Yeah. I mean, I think when we think of things spreading, you know, you go to nose to nose right away. But you're absolutely right. It can be spread in manure, but the aerosols are are the the studies on that are pretty incredible how far things can be put into the air as little particles from just one sneeze in a snort and how far that can, that can spread. So even though you didn't touch the horse in the barn, that might be happening showing signs of illness. doesn't mean you might not come in contact with those aerosol particles. so it it is really important to just because you just touch the horse with your hands, making sure that you know, your clothing and everything like that, which may have got some particles on it doesn't go, you know, to another horse. and, and it can be spread on any type of equipment, whether that's, you know, the, the buckets and the brushes or, you know, for us, a stethoscope, any piece of equipment, or for us, our, our step stools, our, you know, we're kinesiology tapers. We're talking about our scissors, our tape. literally anything that comes into the farm. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. So, best practices for disinfecting, yourself between clients. best practices for disinfecting your stuff. Do you have any tips? I think the one thing to keep in mind is we do have to disinfect. But before we disinfect, we have to clean and disinfect. Those are two very different things. So if you brought in a step stool it first needs to be clean. Because again organic matter is not going to be able to be disinfect did. So it needs to be cleaned with you know soap and water first. And then from there we can disinfect it. There's lots of products available. you know, we have, you know, your classic ver con, which is very popular and anyone can buy that at a kind of a feed store as well. I like that one because it shows you when it's effective and when it's not based on its color. so that's an easy way. you know, there's accelerated hydrogen products that you can also purchase, but bleach on a 1 to 10 ratio is also, effective as long as it's, you know, in, in that, in that ratio there, but making sure that we wash things before disinfecting, I think is very, very important that that is something I think that most of us don't consider. I think that's just such an incredible that's very eye opening wash then disinfect. It's a two phase process now. Okay. Let's say, I frequent to barn, to see clients. and they do have an outbreak of illness in that farm and not necessarily something like EV1 or strangles that has put the barn into a lockdown, per se. but let's say they have a cold or they have some type of a loose manure thing, a cough going through the barn. What ideally would you reschedule? Would you not be going into that barn? even if the horse isn't affected yet or showing signs. what do you think best practices there? I think best practice. And I think a lot of us need to kind of reassess this. What does this actually need to happen today? And in a lot of cases for, you know, a lot of us that are going barn to barn, whether that's that farrier, body worker, saddle fitter, a lot of the time that answer is a that does not need to happen now. And it is always better to be on the side, on the side of caution. You know, even though we might think it might just be a cold as well, which, you know, those horses will be better in a few days, hopefully when their immune system comes around, you know, you might not know that or it might not be diagnosed yet. and exactly the horse that you might be seeing, although it might appear healthy, doesn't mean it hasn't come in contact with it and might come down with it tomorrow or the next day. So best practice, I think, is to reschedule when given the chance. You know, we we you don't need to see that horse that day. Most likely, unless you know it is something on an emergency basis where we can then prepare with, you know, personal protective gear and things like that. And of course, bodywork is never an emergency basis that's left for veterinarians, right? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think I think we need to really recognize that, say, as much as I would love to come and see the horse, you know, I'm not in emergency service. That's left to the vets, right. So yeah, there's a reality in that. Right. And, it is in the best interest of the entire herd of animals. And like you said, you don't know who's immunocompromised in that barn or the next barn. And, I know my ultimate fear is being the one who brings that into the next place, right? Because you just you don't know, right? You don't know what the other people are dealing with and what's what some people, deem is, oh, it's just a little cold. It will pass for another horse. Could be catastrophic illness, right. And for another owner, it's it's their animal, their animals well-being and their vet bill. Right. So you got to be really mindful and respectful of that. Now, if there is, a need to reschedule, what do you think is best practice in as far as rescheduling? you know, you hear differing opinions. some of them are even, you know, if there's a little flu that goes to the barn 21 days from when the very last horse has recovered, fully recovered another full three weeks just to make sure that we got it. So that's what I heard is that, is that normal? Is that being maybe hypervigilant? How do you feel about that? I mean, that would be obviously ideal. And I know that that's probably unrealistic for, for a lot of places. but a lot of these, infections can be linger for 2 to 3 weeks. And, you know, 21 days does sound like a long time for some people, but it can be undetected for that long and then pop up. So I think, you know, the most important thing is to make sure that all horses have recovered. Any account starts after all clinical signs are gone from everyone. and if someone else pops up with a fever, then that count goes back down to days. Days zero. and then taking, you know, whoever's whatever that recommendations there are, you know, if there is a mild illness, at least, at least a week is needed, but that that 2 to 3 weeks really is our gold standard that we should try. Okay. So let's say, someone didn't realize that there was illness in a barn. And as a body worker, you go into the barn and all of a sudden, first horse, you walk by, you know, it does not look good. It's got the eyes half masked. It's got the snot coming out of the nose. Really obvious clinical signs that there is something in the barn. Something's going on. A whole bunch of horses have puffy legs. Oh, yeah. You know, this one had a fever. oh. I've now been exposed. What now? I think the most important thing is you don't touch anything. You don't touch the walls. You don't touch the horses. but you have to then disinfect yourself in your clothing and your boots. So, personally, if I'm getting back into my car, and, you know, assuming there's no foot baths and disinfectant at the barn, it's easy enough to keep some of these in your car for times of this and can give yourself, you know, spray your boots down, spray yourself down, spray your hands down. make sure that your clean so then you're not infecting your vehicle. But I think it's also really helpful to to take off, you know, your coat that you might have worn and put it in a bag in your trunk. So that way it's not touching your seat belts and everything like that. but it's important that all that clothing goes home, gets washed in hot water. Even your clothes, your hats, your mitts, anything that you might have come in, your boots, get properly cleaned and disinfected. and you don't go to your next call, your next barn. because we don't know what it is, and and you're it's probably still lingering on you, even if you were to change your clothes. This is such great advice. Such great advice. one of the things I know I do, I have long hair. I tend to put it up in a hat so I can't get sneezed on. My hair is covered. I do have horses at home. And so when I come home at night, I don't, you know, wear the same clothes that I've just worn to the last barn into my own barn. So, you know, the whole the whole change, but also I my hair covered everything. just so that, you know, there's just less people just trying to take it down, you know? and little things that need to be disinfected. Your pants, you go in, you touch a horse, you pick up your pen and write something down. that pen now essentially has the cooties. So we have to, you know, on the side of caution. Our clipboards, our pens, everything. And then put our papers, that have all of our notes from our sessions. put them aside, make sure that they're not coming into contact with anything from another barn. any anything else? If I missed anything or is that quite thorough? I feel like we've covered quite a lot. We're keeping horse owners safe for keeping body workers safe. we're keeping large facilities safe. is there anything else? That's all I can. I can think of of right now. I think, you know, people being honest with, you know, barn owners and people coming in to see their horses can can go a long way and help us and us being aware too, of of the risks of going, going place to place and what we might be putting others to. it's just it's not worth it. And like you said, no one wants to be that person who brings it in somewhere. That's that's everyone's biggest fear. Yeah. And I think you're right about honesty. I think that's such a great point to end on that. there is no judgment that illnesses can lay dormant in horses. They can pop up any time. We don't judge the barns. We don't think it's a cleanliness thing. We don't judge the owners. the the best thing we can do is to keep risk as minimal as possible. And sometimes bad things happen. But it's how we handle those bad things. And I can't imagine any client calling them and say, I've just come into contact with a set course. I'm going to have to reschedule your appointment. I can't imagine them being upset and saying, no, please come here and bring the cooties to my horse. Please inconvenience me. Lots. You know, so I think I think that that's a great message. that honesty and transparency. they're they're so important. As long as well as good practices. So thank you so much. Doctor Megan Donati from Bennett Equine of Cambridge, Ontario. If people want to, read more about the clinic. What is your website? Our website is she's calling it up. she hasn't been on her own website or I know, can I say, Yeah. It's been it's just been fun. Okay, so it's b n n e t equine.ca. It is a okay. Canada. Ontario in Cambridge. So thank you so much, Doctor Megan Donati, for helping us out with these biosecurity tips. They're going to go a long way and keep a lot of horses really safe. Thanks for having me.