Episode 23: From History to Advocacy: A LGBTQIA Chat with Trans Jedi

Join us as we delve into a series of deeply impactful conversations with Chris, better known as Trans Jedi on TikTok. With his insights illuminated by his experiences as a historian, atheist, and most importantly, as a staunch advocate for trans rights, we traverse the landscape of the LGBTQIA community. We also explore Chris's personal life, revealing his first meeting with Janice, and giving you a unique peek into his world beyond advocacy. 

In the face of sobering statistics and heart-wrenching realities, we tackle the urgent issue of high suicide rates among LGBTQIA youth. With the help of an expert in the field, we shed light on the detrimental effects of anti-trans laws on trans youth and the life-saving influence of support groups like the Trevor Project. Our goal is to spark a conversation about the pressing need for empathy and understanding. 

The episode concludes with an examination of the complexities of gender and sexuality, as we strive to debunk common misconceptions and mislabelling. We challenge the fear-driven rhetoric that fuels harmful laws against trans youth and the role religion often plays in this narrative. Education, we believe, is key in bridging generational gaps and fostering acceptance. So, buckle up for an enlightening journey through the intricacies of the LGBTQIA community, peppered with laughter, unexpected cult references, and Chris’s invaluable insights. This is one conversation you won't want to miss!

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

You are listening to Dumpster Diving with Janice and Jane, and today we are kicking off our fireside chats. Actually, we already had one and it's going to be posted.

Speaker 2: 0:17

It was worldwide. Actually. Did you know, like everybody around the world, what? Everybody around the world has a centaur. So if somebody's hearing that right now, they're like one of few people who haven't heard it and they're like I'm going to need to get on it and go back.

Speaker 1: 0:30

Yes, oh well, good, Good, because everybody else has got the memo, except for everybody else, exactly, exactly. Now we know they're on notice, exactly, but it's number two. Yeah, well, then I'm on notice because I totally forgot about the other fireside chat. But now, now that's when. No, no, I remember. I remember now because that's when I admitted I was joining a cult in Wisconsin.

Speaker 2: 0:56

Right, I was going to say that's why the whole world listened, because we're on the edge of our seats.

Speaker 1: 1:00

Well, I came back with with a magic potion of COVID. So that put me about two weeks. The, the, the. The call sign for that trip is we risked it for the biscuit. We went to this little breakfast that had questionable biscuits. They were very dry and hard, but I'm like these look like they were from yesterday and but we, we tried to indulge, it wasn't that great. And then, by golly, four days later, I'm not feeling good. Chris is in feeling good and no boy.

Speaker 2: 1:36

Okay.

Speaker 1: 1:36

Hold on.

Speaker 2: 1:38

He threw out a name that people might not recognize. But I want to point out that for those of you who either missed or heard the first fireside chat about Jane's cult trip, I mean her trip to the middle of the God or country where she met someone for the first time in some public town she so Chris is the cult leader, now James, pretending that you know he's just this really cool guy that she's totally into right now. I think he's in charge of the cult and she says she had COVID. But what I really didn't happen to everybody is that she was in Wisconsin all that time under the influence of the cult leader and then she finally made her way back. But you know, all of that is circumstantial.

Speaker 1: 2:24

You know here, say yeah completely that I actually left after my 11 day stay and came home. For anything, I mean, there's zero, zero, zero evidence zero evidence CCTC. I mean none of that. I was three weeks. I thought I was going to die, but I came back, you know, and I am back now, but to brought your you know cult leader with you, not physically, but to our podcasts.

Speaker 2: 2:52

So you know, I want everybody to just pray for me right now a little bit, because we're going to spend some time with Chris and I need to make sure I don't end up under the cult influence. So everybody else, you know what's funny is hey guys, hey listeners.

Speaker 1: 3:06

I think, what Janice just asked is pretty self-sufficient, because they she wants you to pray for her and not you guys, and we are going to bleed this little cult into the airwaves and we're at risk. That's fair. That's actually very fair. All right, we'll be strong.

Speaker 2: 3:23

Let's all be strong, it's not even been a month and already you're willing to sacrifice anything.

Speaker 1: 3:28

So there you go.

Speaker 2: 3:31

How many chickens, jane, does it take? Really Okay, goats. Are there goats? What is this? No, not so much goats, maybe some ducks or something, I don't know, but those are cute.

Speaker 1: 3:40

Oh my gosh. Okay, we are way off on a tangent. Let's bring ourselves back.

Speaker 2: 3:44

So, chris, chris is our special guest today.

Speaker 1: 3:47

And the reason for this is this is our fireside chat follow up To our suicide awareness episode that we'll be airing In a couple of days, on Monday, and we'll be doing a little bit of, a little bit of, a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of, a little bit of, a little bit of, a little bit of, a little bit of a little bit of, a little bit of, a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of some weird stuff, just to be clear, and I'll see you guys on the next one, in the next In a couple of days.

Speaker 1: 4:10

On Monday was second and so this will come out the the following week. But, yeah, chris, I mean everybody knows Chris and I said he is my boyfriend and so, and everybody knows that I am Part of the LGBTQ community and so, as he saw, he is joining us because he knows a lot about and has done a lot of research and actually does some. So he oh my gosh, what's the word? He's an activist for trans rights and everything that goes along with that. So after the awareness episode, I asked that he join us for the fireside chat because he actually known on and pretty well known in the LGBTQ community and trans community on TikTok as trans Jedi and he does a lot of lives. He does a lot of debates. He he's like a self proclaimed historian. He loves history and he is also an atheist and he does a lot of religious debates and stuff like that as well. So he's a very interesting person. He's super cool and loving and everything else, and he is nervous to meet you, janice.

Speaker 2: 5:29

I'm the big sister bitch. I mean hold on that was. I mean that's come out so harsh.

Speaker 1: 5:34

but he is coming for Thanksgiving, so get ready.

Speaker 2: 5:40

Oh, I love it.

Speaker 2: 5:42

All right, this is great. I really am excited because one of the things Jane and I talked about was, you know, even before, before our episode on suicide prevent, well, suicide in general, for suicide prevention month, then afterwards, when we just talked about like that, is that whole topic is so the whole, well, the whole community, right, lgbtq community is so affected by that, by suicide, and so I'm just so excited to have him here to really share a vision and a perspective that will be incredible, unique. So let's get him in here, man, because you know the waiting is over. Yeah, let's let him in. For those of you who are listening, watching, I'm sitting with my arms crossed there. Sorry, there he is. So he's here now. Everybody, everybody, he's here.

Speaker 2: 6:31

I knew yourself, chris. I'm here yourself. Let's do this man. Let's do it. How are you? So? I promise to be on my best behavior. I also promise to not interrogate you as the big sister until we're in person in Thanksgiving, because it'll be much better than so. You know, we'll see how that goes. But, in all seriousness, how are you? I'm good. How are you? Good? Good, we're so glad you're here. So glad you're here. I'm glad you decided that. You know this all works out well, that it's okay that Jane joined your cult, but if it doesn't, you're going to have to burn something down, which is why you're at a fire side chat. So, anyway, just our intro. Signs of signals.

Speaker 1: 7:15

Yeah, our intro, which you didn't get to hear, babe, is how I didn't really have coven. I was just trapped in the cult for three weeks and finally made Claude my way home.

Speaker 2: 7:26

Claude, I like that, that's a great visual Claude her way down the 405, you know, like over the mountains man. So, chris, jane actually gave you a really great intro, but we always love for our folks to intro themselves to. So think of something that you think she might not have said and tell us what it is. Or just what do you want people to know about, chris, as you join the cult for a new?

Speaker 3: 7:49

generation. Today. I'm just a normal guy. I mean I work just like everybody else, but I'm I'm pretty heavily into advocating for trans youth. It was the whole reason of me starting my tick tock account that I have. I saw the alarming rates that of things that were happening to trans youth so I wanted to do something more.

Speaker 2: 8:17

That's fantastic. And you're. You live in the Midwest, yeah, yes, okay, all right, I'm just clarifying that so that we can narrow down your location on a map. I mean never mind, just it's good to know where people are from, so it's all good. So you guys have had a precursor and I know you got a chance to listen to our episode, so thank you for that.

Speaker 2: 8:37

We appreciate that, and and so and this is only, as we said before, you came in our second fireside chat ever, and what we love about this new format that we're adding this season is really that it's about like, this is where the hard stuff comes out, right, this is where the stuff that people might be uncomfortable about comes out. This is where the stuff that you know and it's a place where we get to, along with the folks like yourself who join us BTWs you're our first ever fireside chat guest. So, yeah, going down in history, but no, seriously, like we, you know where. It's a space where we feel like we have to say the hard things, right, so that, so we can create, create a platform for that, and you clearly are a great first guest in this space, because that's what you do already, right, like you said via the chat and all those platforms so how long have you been on tick tock under that name of trans Jedi? Probably about a year and a half.

Speaker 2: 9:35

So and what do you like? I know you said your, your motivation was really giving voice to an advocating for trans youth. It. Was there anything in particular that kind of led you to making that leap? Was it a bit you know, or was it just kind of a general?

Speaker 3: 9:51

Yeah, so I had just being in the LGBTQ community, I had already had a lot of followers and I was in a lot of, you know, live debates, I think. I think he was 14 young, 14 year old trans boy reached out to me and said it means so much that you're out, you know, in the world, showing everybody that we're normal and there's no reason to stigmatize us. He's like, you know, I have parents that don't, you know, agree with this, and it's very hard for me. Yeah, you know, I have no one to talk to you, and so I mentored him for a while, and when I say mentor, I just gave him, you know, someone to talk to, right? And I got to thinking, you know, maybe, maybe tick tock isn't just for silly videos, maybe it's the place where I can try to change someone's mind. So that's how it all started.

Speaker 2: 10:59

Oh, wow, okay, that's amazing. And what do you feel like like when you look back at the last year and a half then is there a particular like moment or conversation you had or interaction you had with somebody that you're like most I'm gonna say most proud of but you know what I mean Like you feel like really had with high impact?

Speaker 3: 11:16

Yeah, so there was a Native American guy. I think Jane actually was listening to this live. There was a Native American. Yeah, there was a Native American guy and you know he got on there. He's like you know, I don't believe in this stuff. I was raised totally different, in the Native American ways, and you know he just he didn't get it. So you know, after sitting talking with him and explaining to him you know the psyche of trans folks and the breakdown of genetics he got it a million times more and we ended up having like a 45 minute conversation. Like lying around TikTok and normally it's like people come in, they say something ignorant and then they leave, but this guy actually wanted to learn. Wow, and that's kind of the moments that I live for the people who actually were on the room.

Speaker 1: 12:15

Yeah, and in particular, that person, that individual, spoke about two spirits and how the Indian culture and what they would do is they have the males, the females and then the two spirits, and so the two spirits are the ones that are transgender and they separate them all. They teach them all, but they teach them all how to respect each other and everything, and that's how and so it was normal, you know, and still to this day they do that and I didn't know that that was a thing and I was like educated by him then and I was like he was there arguing this point but then turned around and once Chris talked about the DNA aspect or the genetic aspect of some people and stuff like that, he was like oh wow, oh, okay, well, this is how we handle it and he made the connection and I thought that was so cool.

Speaker 2: 13:12

That's really amazing.

Speaker 2: 13:13

So, yeah, I can see how those moments are like incredibly impactful right, when you actually see and I love that the way you said that that he didn't come to just like drop a bomb and leave. He came to learn something, right, and it's, you know, part of what we talk about all the time is this idea that we have to talk about these things in a way that invites other people in right, Because otherwise where the hell are we at the end of the day, you know? So our last episode then was, as you know, you know, kind of our way to create some space around the topic of suicide and it was focused a lot on kids and parents and that kind of stuff. And you know, we really appreciate that in this fireside chat we're gonna, you know, kind of listen to you, as we really are episodes expert in terms of how suicide impacts the LGBTQ community, by the way.

Speaker 2: 13:59

So last week random tangent Bird-Bawalka connects, I promise Last week we got a letter from our youngest is a junior here in San Diego, Unified, and we got a letter from the superintendent about the LGBTQIA community and I had to look it up because I was like, all right people, I barely got a grasp on the LGBTQ letters, and now I've got two more letters.

Speaker 3: 14:22

What the-? Oh, there's more than that.

Speaker 2: 14:24

Oh my God, all right, just one at a time, one at a time. So okay, I wanna start there then. And then I want you to jump into all your statistics. But so the IA. I was like, okay, I went, I love Google, right? I just went and looked I was like, okay, I get it. I get like I get why both of those are important letters to add to this, but I literally had never heard it before. So what else is there? And I think about that from the perspective of somebody who wants to learn to make sure that I'm honoring, so- Right, so you got LGBTQIA, and then you have Ryan help me out here.

Speaker 3: 14:58

Then there's like Androgynous Ally. There's another one that I'm missing.

Speaker 2: 15:05

I've heard Ally, now that you say that, yep.

Speaker 3: 15:07

And then non-binary, I believe, was another one they put in there.

Speaker 1: 15:10

That non-binary. And now I mean they're sexual, but that's different, you know non-binary.

Speaker 2: 15:17

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 15:17

Right So-.

Speaker 2: 15:19

Well, and at some point maybe, I mean, let's think about this in terms of another episode down the road, but to come back to maybe digging into why that's so important, right? Right, each of those are so important and so contributing, so we'll put a pin in that and come back to it. But and actually the whole point of him sending that letter and it actually contributes to this a little bit was that you know, here in the state of California, what's happening is like in the way the law is written right now in California, from a student privacy perspective, is that only a parent can change a child's records, right? So if a child identifies as a different gender, that's what's in their school records. That can't be changed. However, a kid can come to school and say I'm a girl or I'm a boy, and the staff are gonna honor that, right, the staff are gonna say what's your name? Like, okay, let's go on board.

Speaker 2: 16:07

Well, because of some of the things that have been happening in our state and some of the groups who have you know, come into school board positions and are dominating their districts all over the state Chino is one of them where they're trying to actually put in a school board rule that says and get a law passed right that says parents have to be acquired to be notified, and all hell is breaking loose. And so the superintendent here and I love this sent a letter home last week to say this is what it is and we will continue to honor the privacy of students. Right, we know what the line is. We can't change a record, but we will continue and the governor supports that, and you know a federal judge just blocked a board's attempt to require that, et cetera. So it's a very hot topic. I'm going with our background here, with our fires right now in California and I'm sure probably in some other places too.

Speaker 3: 17:02

And people don't realize that laws like that, groups like that, what they're actually doing to the trans youth and really to the LGBTQIA youth, it's only raising the suicide rate, suicide attempts even more.

Speaker 2: 17:19

Yeah, so let's dig in, man. So where do you? Where is a good place to start for our audience to kind of better understand this relationship between suicide and the community Trevor?

Speaker 3: 17:30

Project's the biggest one. They are hyper focused right now on the LGBTQ youth and trans youth because the rate is so high and it just keeps getting worse.

Speaker 1: 17:46

Well, didn't you say, babe, that there are some LGBTQ, or what is it? There are some oh my gosh groups that don't even recognize the trans community at all, and they claim to be LGBTQ, but they're not. They do everything lesbian and gay, and maybe that's about it.

Speaker 3: 18:11

That the HRC. They're one of the worst.

Speaker 2: 18:14

The HRC. What is that?

Speaker 3: 18:16

So that's the human rights campaign. They're supposed to be like big LGBTQIA people, but if you go to Pride so we just finished going to Madison Pride couple, what? Maybe a month ago? And when we went, I made the observation to the lady at the HRC tent that how sad is it that you have to have a trans alliance and transgender booth right next to you because you have nothing for the trans community at your booth. And she was like well, we help the trans community. I said, wouldn't it be nice for you to reflect that at your booth? And she had nothing to say.

Speaker 2: 19:06

So is that? I mean, is that a kind of a historical thing? I don't know, obviously. I know nothing about it, so is there-.

Speaker 3: 19:13

So I would say in the 70s and 80s it was not historical, because without trans women there would be no gay rights, there would have been no stonewall. And there is a movement right now in the community to have tea dropped from everything In which community In the gay community, in the lesbian, gay, bi, transgender, queer community. There is a big push to drop the tea because it's getting such negative stigmatism right now that it's drawing more attention and they think that it's hurting the community instead of helping, instead of getting behind us like we have for the community for years.

Speaker 2: 19:58

Right, that's discouraging to hear and I'm sure we could probably talk about like 27 days about the history of that and fleshing that out, and you made a couple of historical references that my guess is a lot of people are gonna be Googling myself among them in terms of like better understanding, because I don't wanna derail this conversation. But so tell us a little bit then some of the I know you've got like lots of statistics and stuff like that. What are some of the things we wanna focus on in terms of the impact of all of this on our trans youth especially?

Speaker 3: 20:34

Sure so trans youth. So if you look at youth as a whole, right, it's the second leading cause of suicide in this country. Trans and well, let's start with LGBTQ youth are four times more likely to attempt or consider suicide. When you consider we're really only like 1.1% of the population, trans youth is 41%. Wow, yeah, it's pretty bad. I believe the statistic was one trans kid every 45 seconds attempts or considers suicide. Wow, that's an alarming rate. That's insane.

Speaker 2: 21:23

That's a hugely alarming rate. So, chris, is that like and again, I admit very much being a novice, right, my only experience here is as an educator, right, and even then very little experience with the T in that community, because that was 13 years ago and so we did not see a lot of people who were openly acknowledging, right that in public schools even that recently. And so I mean, based on your experience and all the people that you've talked with, et cetera, what do you feel is at the core of that, like, what's behind that?

Speaker 3: 22:01

I would say the negative rhetoric being passed around, the really bad negative. Saying that we're grooming children, we're having children cut off their parts or feeding them hormones, which is absolutely ridiculous. That does not happen ever, ever, ever. I mean, you have to go through years of therapy before you can even attempt to go on hormone blockers, let alone your estrogen. It just doesn't happen. And nobody under the age I believe it's 14 or 15, and that's just to have top surgery, right, and that's only after two PhD therapists, your doctor and your parents have signed off Right. So the rhetoric is not helping and what it's actually doing is it's causing these kids to feel like they have no worlds to go.

Speaker 2: 23:06

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 23:07

And unfortunately it's ending lives. Since I've been on TikTok, I have watched well, matthew, the kid that I used to mentor. He's disappeared. Don't know where he went, and this was somebody that was on TikTok every single day. Oh wow, we've gone. Can't find him. His account's not active. Three other transgender youths have committed suicide in the last year and a half since I've been on TikTok. That I know totally on.

Speaker 2: 23:39

Wow, I'm so sorry. I mean, I can't even imagine the impact that must have on you. It's horrible.

Speaker 3: 23:46

Yeah, it's absolutely horrible. I mean I've had even when I go to Pride's. I think this was probably my first Pride where I could take my shirt off and be out and proud. I was treated fantastic here. But just moving here from Tennessee, where my mother lives, no way could you go to Pride. They had to cancel Pride because the Proud Boys promised to show up and it's illegal to be transgender in Tennessee Still now. Oh, yes, yes, it's very much illegal. You can't even be a drag queen in Tennessee. What? Yes, it is illegal. You missed it out.

Speaker 2: 24:29

Yeah, they are Seriously, seriously that I've done Not to go to the shows and, yeah, I love this.

Speaker 3: 24:37

And so what they did is the real thing they wanted to do was to get rid of transgender folks, because what they really did was they wrote into that law that banned drag queens. They wrote into the law any person wearing clothes not of their gender. It would be clack to felons.

Speaker 2: 25:02

What about Halloween, man? Sorry, what the fuck. That is messed up. So, while you're talking right, I had pulled up a few things in anticipation of this conversation, because what you're shutting light on is the last year and a half is what you've said, right since you've been in this space in TikTok and I, as just a regular person going about their day and by regular I mean I don't hold any positions in my community that are of no return like that but I pay attention and I know that these groups that you're talking about are on the rise right now across this country.

Speaker 2: 25:42

So I pulled up a quick map, right? So if you look at a map of the United States in terms of laws that have been proposed that are restricting trans, that are directed toward trans youth, and, specifically, if you pull up that map from 2021, nothing. You look at that map two years later and there are 13 states that have laws on the books now, and there's another I'm looking at it while I'm talking to you four or five right that have them in the works, and many of them, to your point, are geared toward even preventing parents from taking the steps to support their child's identity In Florida it's actually illegal and they will take your child.

Speaker 3: 26:25

I know people that have had their children taken from them because they supported their child's gender.

Speaker 2: 26:32

And that's where it gets all fucked up. Right, because many of us are still not all of us are still reeling from the Roe v Wade right being overturned and all of the abortion laws that came as a result of that. And so I'm sitting here in my head trying to synthesize, like so first you took back away our right to be in charge of our own bodies, right, and you said and you said it's because every fetus is a baby, every child is a soul, everybody should be born, right. And then now, once they're here, we've decided that a small group of people in this country get to decide things like every single person's gender identity, every single person's gender identity. And as children, we decided you're not intelligent enough as a parent yourself to make those decisions, so we're going to do it for you.

Speaker 2: 27:26

And again, I'm going to say this because I said it with the abortion piece, with zero anything to come with it. Right, we're going to tell you what to do, but we're not going to fund anything, we're not going to develop systems to support you. We're not going to do any of that. We're just going to tell you what you can and can't do. What the fuck.

Speaker 3: 27:43

Yeah, Because they only care about them before they're born. After they're born, they don't care Exactly.

Speaker 1: 27:49

Exactly. We've got to keep those taxpayers coming into the system you don't want to get rid of them.

Speaker 3: 27:56

Good If your kid happens to be LGBTQ, they really don't care about. They write Right Exactly.

Speaker 2: 28:04

Yeah, exactly, and so the systemness of it is really quite terrifying. And so what I really value about this conversation is that we're growing deeper with the topic of our youth and the real critical, if you will level we're at in terms of suicide, and we're getting to focus in on a specific group who now you've just shared a few statistics that are like Alarm, right, I mean, like that's not even the worst one yet. Oh god, because even with the ones you shared, chris, it's like, so if I'm a parent and my kid comes to me tomorrow and says, you know, I think I'm going to support my kid doing all of the things, but in my head I'm going to go oh my god, you just tripled your likelihood of committing suicide, right? That's why, like, the fear that's going to come for me is not going to be about their identity change. It's going to be about the fear of knowing that that's the world they live in right now.

Speaker 3: 29:00

Well, and not even that, Lord forbid. They tell you that they're trans and anybody else finds out, then you have to worry about what happens to them when they walk outside the door.

Speaker 2: 29:10

That's exactly right. Yeah, exactly right. So, jane, I'm always thinking what do you think Like? Maybe right, cause we're making a lot of assumptions right now, having this conversation about people's level of understanding and I know, on one hand, we wanna really be laser focused on suicide, on the other hand, I wanna make sure we're bringing everybody along. So does it make sense to you that we like just back up a little bit, maybe? And like Chris you just said, for example, and if they say they're trans, that's a whole? I can imagine there are probably people out there going, oh okay, all right, what's the like? What's different Like? What's the difference between changing your identity or being trans or what have you? Does it make?

Speaker 1: 29:47

sense to put on a mask.

Speaker 2: 29:49

Yeah, Exactly exactly. Let's do it, and you two are the experts here. I'm gonna shut up, go ahead.

Speaker 1: 29:57

Well, you know, I mean statistic wise. I would love Chris to share, but I mean just personally. So your question, tell me your question again.

Speaker 2: 30:11

So my question is it's starting to pour down rain and for Constantine, San Diego, so I keep muting myself, cause I don't know if you can hear it. My question is how about let's do a little kind of run through of terms and definitions so people know, like, what's the difference between being trans versus changing my identity? Like I imagine they're probably thinking they're the same thing, or like what's the? I think most people probably understand lesbian, gay, right, that, those basics, but what's the thing that you feel like people probably would need some clarification on?

Speaker 1: 30:45

I would definitely say that I mean queer is a fun one because it means a lot, you know. It's just, it's not normal, you know. So it's not male and female, so it would be anything other than male and female. And what does that mean? You know, I mean that could mean a lot of things. People that are into BDSM, that's queer, you know.

Speaker 2: 31:10

I mean it could be.

Speaker 1: 31:12

And that's your sexuality, that's your gender. That's sexuality right, not gender-wise.

Speaker 2: 31:16

But like oh wait, wait, wait, hold on. I'm an novice, that's new to me, seriously, because I've always wondered about the queue and I've always like, like I just say that word out loud feels like an insult, and so and I know it's not, because otherwise the fricking letter wouldn't be in the list, right. So I'm so glad you just said that. So queer actually, chris, you said refers more to a person's sexuality. It's not about. Okay, all right.

Speaker 1: 31:40

Right.

Speaker 2: 31:41

Got it moving on. I got it, we got this, let's go.

Speaker 1: 31:43

Next letter yeah, so exactly. So then, chris, I would love for you to explain intersex. That's me.

Speaker 2: 31:55

What does that mean? We're going to go for.

Speaker 3: 31:58

I am the. I am the T, okay, I was born. I was born intersex, so if you were to run my genetics right, I am XXY, okay, so male, but was born with female parts.

Speaker 2: 32:15

Got it.

Speaker 3: 32:17

So, like everybody else in the 80s, they had no idea what that meant. Yeah, and they said well, you got girl parts, you're a girl. That wasn't technically true. Got it, I was a guy with girl parts. So as I got older, the one good thing that my mother did was she let me explore my own self. Okay, when I hit puberty is when it became very clear that I was not a girl. Girls don't grow facial hair, chuck hair, it just don't Me. I guess some do.

Speaker 2: 32:53

Yeah, well, some do. But you know what? That's very sensitive. Okay, there's a lot of whacks of all it's sensitive.

Speaker 3: 32:59

But yeah, the majority don't grow full beard, right, right. So as I got older, I transitioned and medically transitioned by having top surgery and things like that, and legally have transitioned to male.

Speaker 2: 33:20

So I'm going to review that really quickly because I'm an educator. That's what we do. So intersex means I genetically in one gender but I have the parts of another gender, or genetically you're both, because I'm not or genetically.

Speaker 3: 33:33

you're both Right.

Speaker 2: 33:34

Got it. See, that's why I'm repeating it, because we get it wrong. So genetically you're both, but you and you have male. You know one part right, those female to male parts, and so for you the way that revealed itself was that you know, like you said, as you went through puberty and then you were able to kind of say, okay, this is who I am and pursue, but that doesn't mean you're not still intersex, which is why you said I'm the TMI, because that's always going to be true of you.

Speaker 1: 33:59

Okay, and how he's. What he one part he left out and how he transitioned twice was is that they decided at birth that he was going to be a girl, and so they raised him as a girl and gave him estrogen and so it made him develop breasts and stuff like that, and then, once we went off of it, his testosterone kicked in naturally and that's where everything came from. And so that's how he transitioned twice, because he was really a boy and they made him a girl and then transitioned back to male.

Speaker 2: 34:30

So you so, when you're born, your parents knew you were intersex. Oh yeah, oh okay, there were signs, yeah.

Speaker 3: 34:37

Okay.

Speaker 2: 34:38

Okay, all right, so there are indicators, so doctors know that, then parents know that, and then they okay, and I feel like that's a story I've heard before, the idea that it's like the parents chose what gender and then, but for you, in your case, you eventually chose your like, you identified differently and then went through that. Holy crap, man, that's a lot to go through. Dude, yeah, two puberty, wow, yeah, because you know you're so fun the first time, let's do it again.

Speaker 3: 35:04

That's why puberty blockers are so important for trans kids, because who wants their kid to go through two puberty's? It's horrible.

Speaker 2: 35:11

I'm so glad you brought that up, because that is some of the stuff that's on the legal battleground and on the other side of it they try to make it sound like it's not a big deal but, to your point, like it's actually really significant in the life of a trans kid. So at what point, kristen, when somebody says I have a trans kid right or kids on a trans kid like, at what point, when we use that term, is that term coming to play when a child, for whatever reason right, begins to identify as a gender that's different than the physical parts they have?

Speaker 3: 35:43

Yeah, so a lot of kids usually start with O-M, non-binary, because it's more comfortable for them they could be both, and then as they get a little older, as kids, you know, in their teens they usually find themselves and where they figure themselves out? Yeah, and the kids, if they feel safe, hopefully will tell somebody close to them. You know a transgender? This is how it feels. That's usually how someone knows. I mean telltale signs. You know, if a girl dresses as a boy doesn't like being called. You know, if their name's Stephanie, they don't want to be called that.

Speaker 3: 36:25

Those are telltale signs. They just haven't quite figured it out. I knew by five years old that I was not supposed to be who I was.

Speaker 2: 36:33

Tell us a little bit about that, like, if you don't mind again, I know we're not staying on the whole suicide thing we're gonna come back to that, but I think that people understand your journey more helps them understand the whole topic.

Speaker 3: 36:42

Exactly so. I did nothing as a girl. I may have looked like a girl, well, I don't think I did. I think I looked like a boy.

Speaker 1: 36:50

I have pictures. You were a cute little girl, Aw.

Speaker 3: 36:57

But I didn't do anything, girly. I played baseball, I played football, I climbed trees, I worked on cars. There was nothing I did, girly, right which by?

Speaker 2: 37:09

the way, and I'm gonna say this out loud because we know we're gonna have people who say, but which I mean? There are plenty of women who grew up that way in our women because that's just what they prefer, right? So we're not suggesting that because a girl does all these things. That means that. It just means that was your experience.

Speaker 3: 37:25

Continue. Yeah, I was just wondering. I know some awesome women that do all those things, of course, of course. But I knew, because when I looked in the mirror I didn't see the person that was in here. The person in here was this little boy and really good at sports and everything else, but I was a girl. So I kind of figured it out. And then as I got a little older and I started paying more attention at the doctor's office, I was like wait a minute, what's wrong with me? I was like because at first they had me on liquid medication which was horrible it was the worst tasting thing on the planet. And then, as I became a teenager, I finally got to decide what I wanted to do and the doctor you know told me exactly what it was. We went to like the leading doctor endocrinologist in Florida and she told me what I had and she was like well, technically, you're not a girl, you're technically a boy. And I was like what? So I had to go through that? I was 13 at that time.

Speaker 2: 38:37

So your parents didn't tell you you were taking this medicine all along, but your parents didn't tell you. They didn't tell me why.

Speaker 3: 38:42

Yeah, I had no idea why. I just knew I had to take this. That was it. Yeah, for a 13,. They finally told me what it was. I believe that was four enough that I took. Which is this for you? And so I was like, well, I guess we can go with that, because I didn't quite know what I knew.

Speaker 3: 39:01

Yeah, and so my mom was still calling the shots, so we took that. And you know, she told me at that time she's like you'll never be able to have kids, you're sterile, you'll never be able to have kids. She's like there's a good chance that you're going to go through puberty twice if you decide to stop being on medication. And you know, my mom always told me well, if you get off of this medication, you'll get very sick. I'm like oh wow, that don't sound right, right. So when I was 18, I was like I'm done with this. My body feels like it's fighting itself. I gained a ton of weight. I was like I'm done, I'm done with this, and so I stopped taking medication. And then facial hair grew in. Everything grew in and it all fell into place.

Speaker 3: 39:46

Oh wow, my hair started falling out Like I was the boy I was supposed to be. Yeah, wow, it made more sense. And then I did research on my own and I became a participant in a CAH study, which is congenital adrenal hyperplasia, which is what I have, and that opened my eyes to so many people. One in 1500 people will have what I have. Oh, wow, yeah, and that makes up a large population of people, right?

Speaker 2: 40:22

Wow, wow, that is. Thank you so much for sharing that. And as you're talking honestly, chris, I'm sitting here thinking of myself, 13. Right, like we, I joke all the time when I think I've said on this show that, you know, if a girl can survive seventh grade, she can survive anything, right, and that's that. 13, 14, 12, 13 year old. Because it's hell, man, even under all of the best possible conditions, right, it's freaking hell.

Speaker 2: 40:47

And so to think about somebody seriously in your position who then, on top of just all the regular shit that comes with that age, has that in there, you know, and you didn't even I mean so. At that point, that's when you're learning all this shit and I'm thinking, oh, my God. And then you know you had to go to school the next day and deal with all the regular. Seventh day is great bullshit, right, like holy crap. And so that kind of leads us back to the really hard part of this. That no fucking wonder, you know. And so that's enough that it is. But then we layer on top the people in the world who've decided they should be the ones who, you know, tell us what is right and wrong and make decisions.

Speaker 3: 41:24

Yeah, it's, it's an alarming rate. Like I said, I haven't even told you the worst ones.

Speaker 2: 41:30

All right, let's hear it. Keep going All right.

Speaker 3: 41:33

So so you know how I said 45 percent, right. Forty five percent of youth for the LGBTQ. Can you guess the percentage for trans youth and just trans people in general, the percentage?

Speaker 2: 41:48

of people who commit suicide or have committed suicide or attempted or attempted to use this course I don't want to guess.

Speaker 3: 41:55

Keep in mind we're only one point one percent of the population.

Speaker 2: 42:02

I don't want to guess.

Speaker 3: 42:04

I already terrified, Jane you already know the answer, because I told you.

Speaker 2: 42:08

Yeah, all right, what is it? 82 percent, so wait a second. 82 percent of the trans population. Either do or attempted, and there you go, right, like that's. That's all we got to know. To know what we're doing is not working, right, right.

Speaker 3: 42:27

Not working there and 41 percent of that is youth.

Speaker 2: 42:31

Yeah, 82 percent, and 41 percent of it is youth, and so that actually speaks volumes to Chris, because I'm thinking of myself, like, so you make it all the way through teenage years, you get into your early twenties. Well, actually, before I say that, like, is there an average and I don't know if this is something you've been also have yet but an average age at which people tend to transition, if they're going to transition?

Speaker 3: 42:56

If they're going to well, it's probably different now. Now it's definitely different now. It's different now, Like for me, I was in my twenties.

Speaker 1: 43:06

Okay, If you got a Caitlyn Jenner, I mean, he was like what, Like yeah, in his sixties.

Speaker 3: 43:11

Jenner yeah, Although although Caitlyn Jenner is not seen nicely by the trans community.

Speaker 1: 43:19

Well, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 3: 43:23

What? What are they in their sixties?

Speaker 1: 43:25

Yeah, fifties or sixties, you know.

Speaker 2: 43:27

I early sixties and I only remember that because for some reason I looked that up recently. I can't remember. Maybe it was thinking about these, I don't remember. But so, yeah, that's a very good point, but I think, probably. I mean, who knows, maybe lots of people in their 60s are transitioning. We don't hear about them because they're not famous, but okay, but you were in your early 20s, do you?

Speaker 3: 43:51

think the early 20s had surgery a couple of years ago.

Speaker 2: 43:55

Okay, it's the trend now, though, that we're seeing it at younger ages, because we are certainly hearing about it a lot more right Now.

Speaker 3: 44:02

that's also because they're trying to stop it, but I think we hear about it more because now you have Gen X raising kids Amen, and they're not about the hate, yeah. So I think you know my generation, your generation, change generation is kind of done with that whole boomer mentality. Yeah, and nothing against boomers, no, it's not all. My dad was a boomer and he was amazing. I think we're done with that and we're raising the next generation of people who are now Black a better words to give two shits. Whether you like them or not, they're going to do what they want to do, right, you know you got your Zeleniel's and your Gen Alpha that are charging forward and they're not taking the heat anymore. So I think that youths feel more accepted now and able to come out. But I still think there's a long way to go because I mean it's a crazy, alarming rate. I mean, even with you know POC people, people of color, are is that like 51% in the trans community?

Speaker 1: 45:31

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 45:36

So within the trans community, 51% of people of color who are also in that community are that's their attempted or suicide rate. Yes, god. So I mean you know honestly, we know, like it's not rocket science, we know that a lot of what drives how people act in this system in terms of this, all of these things, right, a lot of it's driven. Oh well, I shouldn't even say that. The assumption I make is that a lot of it's driven by fear and lack of understanding, right, but the frustrating part is that there's not a whole lot of an excuse anymore about lack of understanding, because the freaking world is at your fingertips If you want to better understand.

Speaker 2: 46:18

If I wanted to know what the freaking IA was at the end of that list one of the superintendents and that letter I went and googled it. Right, like I didn't have to go find encyclopedia or wait till I saw somebody else. I could literally find out in five seconds. So I have my tolerance for lack of understanding is quickly decreasing, but the trend right to see.

Speaker 2: 46:39

So we know so much more than we ever have before, all of the procedures and the things that have to happen for a person who you know, identifies and understands themselves to be a different gender and has to go through all that. Right, it's already hellish, even when you go through it willingly, because there's so much involved medically and it's all really safe, and so you know, you kind of come back to maybe it's fear, because you just some people just fear what's different than them. But I'm just sitting here in my head trying to think about, like, how we start to get people who are behind freaking 13, 18 states now either passing laws or having laws that are trying to be passed that restrict this. Like how do we change the narrative? Right, because what we're going to need are other people. We're going to need everybody else out there understanding that right and and speaking up. So it's like, how do we? How do we change the narrative?

Speaker 3: 47:38

Doing it right now. Yeah, that's how you do it. You sit down. I'm a big proponent for and I've always said this, I say it on the lives all the time that if everybody put their egos and pride aside and sat down at a table and actually had a conversation, open-hearted conversation, it would solve a lot of this country's problems. But until we get rid of this you know, fake news, maga mindset it's never going to happen because they're pushing that we're abusing kids. You know we're recruiting them, which is absolutely ridiculous. You can't recruit somebody to be trans. We're brainwashing them. Grooming them was the big one. I'm like are you kidding me right now? How do you groom somebody? And I flip it around on them. I'm like how did you get groomed?

Speaker 2: 48:40

to be straight, Well, right, I love that so much, chris. I feel like, first off, there's a part of me that's like wouldn't it be incredible if we eventually could be a world where a kid doesn't actually have to come out because nobody predetermines what their sexuality is? Right, for example. Right and same thing with gender, right that we don't actually predeterminate, right that we're not so caught up in it? You know, wouldn't that be kind of an amazing place to live? And I agree with you like having those kinds of conversations, and so I love that you guys both said this is it right? We have to talk about it, we have to open the door to it. Because I really am sitting here thinking to myself, like why does it matter? Like, if it's not your kid, right? Like I really am, like there are people who are putting God knows how much money behind creating laws that really are discriminating, right.

Speaker 3: 49:45

They're all Christian based. And it's so funny because I have a good friend on TikTok. His name is Mr Jones. He literally has like a bachelor. He's a psychologist and he has completely studied the theological studies.

Speaker 3: 50:05

Yeah, he has studied all of the religions, right, and so when people get up there and they're like, well, it's against God's law. And he's like really, have you read the Bible? He's like, because there's so many trans people in the Bible. Yeah, he's like what are you talking about? He's like are you kidding me? And he'll flip it around on him and they're like well, you know, it's just immoral. And he was like what's immoral? He's like says in the Bible you're not supposed to eat shellfish. Do you do that? That's immoral. Do you wear clothes of different cloths? That's immoral. Exactly, have you been divorced? No, it was like stop listening. And he calls him sky daddy. It's hilarious. That's sad. You know, and I am all about and I have always said this I'm very respectful of everybody's religion. I am all about everybody believing something that gives them faith and uplifts them Absolutely. Where I draw the line is where you start making laws against me based on your religion.

Speaker 2: 51:10

That's exactly right. Right, and I think that's it. And I think that, and you know, I just feel like any argument that's based on what the Bible says I can't like, that can't be for me, that can't be the basis of your argument, right? So I would like you, I respect everybody's beliefs. I respect I have my own faith, but to your point, I'm a big believer that my faith, the moment it impacts you, believing what you believe, I have stepped away from any kind of belief, god or what have you that would you know would be. But you keep saying that, that example of, excuse me, grooming and another story that I heard, and I and so let me again for our listeners.

Speaker 2: 51:56

I cannot remember the source, so it could be bullshit, but it was an article or something and it was about this idea that it was. It was an article that was about one of these things that's happening in California in terms of the thing I said earlier about, you know, schools basically saying, listen, we're going to protect a kid's privacy because they're not saying, if they're not telling their parents, there's got to be a reason, but change their records. Because we can't do that, because that's against the current law and embedded in. It was this idea that schools are the reason schools are doing. That is because schools want what are they doing? It was, it was.

Speaker 2: 52:36

It was along the grooming lines of schools are encouraging more kids to be trans, and so they're saying like a kid. So the example was like so a kid might come and say, you know, mrs Case, I think I'm gay. And Mrs Case is saying, oh no, no, you're not gay, you're just trans, because trans means that maybe you're going to have sex with the other gender. What the fuck? And I was and I read it and I was like do people seriously think I'm poor Joe?

Speaker 3: 53:05

I do because they think that gender and they think that gender and sex are the same thing.

Speaker 2: 53:10

That's exactly right, chris. But my thing was, like, do they seriously think people in schools have time for this shit? Like, I can assure you nobody has time to set aside for Johnny to try to convince Johnny to be trans. Like, look, I can promise you, on one hand, schools are a place and it's not universal. Every school is full of people and people are all right. Nothing is universal. But in the cases where you have people who are accepting and, you know, supportive or whatever, when those people are having a kid come to them, I can assure you what they're thinking is, a how do I help you? And B damn, this is going to be hard, right, because they know, they know all the battles that are going to come right, but then you still do what you got to do. So, anyway, I'm with you on the whole misinformation, miscommunity. You know all the things and so I love that, when you're engaging in engaging folks in these lives, that you're saying so what's your evidence?

Speaker 3: 54:08

Oh, it's fine.

Speaker 2: 54:08

None of them can bring it up, right Right.

Speaker 3: 54:11

I'm like what's your source? Put it on the camera. I'll even look it up for you. What's your source? And they're like, oh, I don't got it. Or they'll show it, like in Tennessee, where they tried to say that you know these drag queen story hours, that they were doing inappropriate things. And I'm like, oh my gosh, they sat there in a dress and read a princess story.

Speaker 2: 54:34

Right, don't we hire people to do that? Come to birthday parties and princesses.

Speaker 3: 54:40

Do you take your kids to Hooters? Yes, total English, while rebels in New York.

Speaker 2: 54:46

There you go, world Right yeah.

Speaker 1: 54:51

Just sit here.

Speaker 2: 54:52

There you go, it's all I mean. It is, there's no question, the fear is such a driving factor. So when you think then about like you know, because unfortunately we can't solve all the problems of the world but we can for the people who listen, say, say, like, what can you do, right? Like I think one of the things Jane and I've committed to with these fireside chats because they're going to be hard is to say but so what can you do, right? So what do you think? What are some things folks can be doing?

Speaker 3: 55:18

Um, listen to your kids when they tell you that they don't feel right, no matter what age they are. Listen to them, just because your five year old comes up to you and says hey, I don't want to be called Timmy anymore, I'd like to be called, you know, crystal. Who cares? Call them crystal. It may or may not just be a momentary thing. Who knows Right? Just listen to them. They know what they're talking about. Yeah, they know what they're talking about. Themselves out Right and stop voting for assholes.

Speaker 2: 55:47

Hey man, hey man, which means you have to start paying attention, Right yeah?

Speaker 3: 55:51

And that's half the problem, people. Just you know all. I'm voting along the party line. I'm independent. I'll vote on both sides. If the Democrat that's there, yep, not doing their job and not protecting the people, guess what, I'd go the other way, yeah.

Speaker 2: 56:07

Yeah, Yep, it's gotta be about the person and what. Their track record is right. So if they're actually in a working context but they're not so sure, they're changing positions in order to recognize what's happening. So yeah, Clearly they're not fucking right.

Speaker 3: 56:20

But it's true.

Speaker 2: 56:20

So if you're, they're not really understanding what it is they fundamentally believe, which is hard, because I know people are like that takes time and now I have to research. It's the least we can do. Right? It's like one time a year? Yeah, one time a year.

Speaker 3: 56:33

We asked you to pay attention and actually go in there and understand who's who's running, what they believe in and make sure that it represents what you believe in. And so, yeah, I agree with you, included marriage to people not of the same race. As you, right, clarence Thomas is married to a white woman.

Speaker 2: 56:49

Exactly it doesn't. It doesn't in fact, obviously the fact that we have laws about marriage at all, that's a whole other fireside chat, people, whole other fireside chat.

Speaker 1: 57:00

Like we have a whole theory on that.

Speaker 2: 57:03

What a waste of resources, man. What a waste of resources. So, Chris, what haven't we asked you, man, as we wrap up, what's something that you wanna make sure that everybody in the world hears? Because if you didn't hear, everybody in the world listen to our first fireside chat like everybody. So, babies, we're listening.

Speaker 1: 57:22

We have to hold it in our throat.

Speaker 2: 57:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly Nice.

Speaker 3: 57:26

I would just say you know, don't be so closed-minded or open your mind to more possibilities in what you see on the news, talked about with your friends. You know that trans kid is actually going through something. I always tell people we never know what another person's going through Amen, just be kind, yeah, and just be a good person. You know that's free, that's free, that doesn't take any effort. Just be a good person, cause even trans people go through stuff. I mean, obviously, the statistics are there, exactly so. I mean get educated. There's plenty of places you can get educated Trevor Project, unfortunately, the HRC, even though they don't do a very good job of it. Yeah, we've got the trans alliance. If you want real information, john Hopkins, that's actually where I got all my transitions surgeries they actually have a trans center. Oh, wow, john Hopkins Baltimore. Yeah, on their website, they actually have a center and you can get all the information on honest information.

Speaker 2: 58:43

That's it.

Speaker 3: 58:47

On the procedures and the steps and everything else. I mean, even as an adult. I had to go through two PhDs and get there okay, and my doctor's okay, before I could do anything.

Speaker 2: 59:01

No, wow, I love that. I love that you're sending people to John Hopkins because, to your point, you can't Google this shit, man. You can't just Google and say what is the? There's just too much crap out there. So I love that you're sending people to a scientific, medical source to say they're gonna tell you exactly what it is. They're not gonna tell you what they think about it, they're just gonna say here's what it is. So that's a beautiful site. So we're gonna put all this stuff, jane, right In the notes of the episode.

Speaker 1: 59:28

Yeah, yeah, he sent it over to me, so we'll put it in the notes. Everybody has that information.

Speaker 2: 59:33

So what do you think in final word, jane?

Speaker 1: 59:35

Thank you, I appreciate you. He was so nervous. Aw, aw Good. I mean, he's like I'm meeting your sister for the first time and I'm like, so what? I've only known her for a year. Who cares?

Speaker 2: 59:49

And he's like no, no, Um, hold on a second. That might be true, but Chris clearly is smart enough to understand. That means I have a lifetime of big sister behavior to exhibit in the big short window. So short windows.

Speaker 1: 1:00:04

Short windows.

Speaker 2: 1:00:05

Speak to yourself, older sister, she's such a baby, god you know what. Seriously, thank you for being a part of this conversation and for setting the light here. We're gonna put all your stuff. Everybody should be going to TikTok and following trans Jedi. That's Chris. You're gonna be able to be firsthand on some of his lives and really listen into some of the ongoing conversations he has. We know he's gonna be back because he leads a cult and cult leaders kind of wiggle that are where he in, like they just we talk in there, right, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 1:00:36

But we know, we know you'll be back and you know everybody needs to go like and share and subscribe and do all the things on all the different platforms. We have a whole lot more obviously coming at you in the next few months as we continue plowing through season two. So thanks everybody for being here and listening and being part of the Dumpster family. Man, dumpster family. Thanks, chris, you're the best dude.

Speaker 3: 1:01:00

Thank you.

Speaker 1: 1:01:02

Bye guys.