Navigating the intricate dance of parenting, we go beyond the surface to dissect styles that leave lasting imprints on our little ones. With Rose's narrative paving the way, we delve into the psychological intricacies of transactional analysis to illuminate how ego states influence our relationships. Whether recounting the trials and triumphs of 'lighthouse parenting' or reflecting on the evolution of marital dynamics over time, this episode is a treasure trove of insights. Join us, as we shed light on creating a legacy of capable, confident adults, one guiding light at a time.
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Navigating the intricate dance of parenting, we go beyond the surface to dissect styles that leave lasting imprints on our little ones. With Rose's narrative paving the way, we delve into the psychological intricacies of transactional analysis to illuminate how ego states influence our relationships. Whether recounting the trials and triumphs of 'lighthouse parenting' or reflecting on the evolution of marital dynamics over time, this episode is a treasure trove of insights. Join us, as we shed light on creating a legacy of capable, confident adults, one guiding light at a time.
Have a story to share? Email us at dumpsterdivingjj@gmail.com
Be sure to LIKE, SHARE, FOLLOW, and SUBSCRIBE!
PLEASE READ CAREFULLY
These Terms and Conditions apply to your use of Dumpster Diving with Janice and Jane Podcast. Your use of the Podcast is governed by these Terms and Conditions. If you do not agree with these Terms and Conditions, please do not access the Podcast.
See FULL Terms and Conditions Here.
You're listening to Dumpster Diving with Janice and Jane, and it's a beautiful Sunday morning. We've been having a lot of rain down here in Southern California and the crows are kind, the birds are flying around, they're all happy. It's sunny outside and it's cold though. Wow, janice.
Speaker 2:Wow, yeah, it's been. I know everybody wants to know, right? Yeah, really rainy Yesterday. All I wanted to do was burrow under a blanket and Ben's on Netflix all day. But of course I would love to say my weekends involve those things, but they don't. But yeah, we're still in winter here in Southern California, which essentially equates to this. It's just been a crazy one. It's been crazy all over the country.
Speaker 2:I was talking with a superintendent last week in my day job. He is from a district that's the California side of Lake Tahoe. He was like hey, he texted me. He's like, hey, I'm going to be about 10 minutes late because we're supposed to get 10 inches of snow. And I prepared the emergency plan to start. I was like, great, no problem. When he hopped on, I was like oh my gosh, 10 inches of snow. You make me think of Virginia, where I grew up. Well, he's like no, no, 10 feet of snow. Oh my God. I was like are you kidding? He's like no, no, 10 feet of snow. So I haven't looked to see what they got. I know they got a crop top, but I was like, fuck that.
Speaker 1:No, no, not even for one day.
Speaker 2:So it made our little rain and wind and stuff seem a little bit maybe not, I guess.
Speaker 1:But we don't live in an area where we get 10 feet of snow or could get 10 feet of snow, unless there was some weird apocalypse.
Speaker 2:It's like the tornadoes in Los Angeles and all the stuff down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the sea of the red.
Speaker 2:Exactly, by the way, not to get off too far of our topic today, but I will say I love all those movies, like any kind of apocalyptic type of movie. I love all those. Oh my God, I fucking love them. And Joe, so we have lots of conversations and we watch shows like Walking Dead, all that stuff, right yeah, and we finally have come to consensus that when the shit goes down, we want to die in the first wave.
Speaker 1:Thank you, I'm not to get off track, but we're going there. I would be the worst prisoner I really would Like if somebody, if we were invaded by another country, or zombies or aliens or whatever they were trying to tell me what to do. I'd be like just kill me. Just fucking kill me because you're going to hate working with me.
Speaker 2:In an overwind.
Speaker 1:Yeah, working with me. Working with me. Yeah, aircruits working with me.
Speaker 2:And they're going to be trying to collaborate with you, jane. They're going to be like let's work with you. It's more of an I work for you kind of thing.
Speaker 1:but I'm here to tell you that's not the way it's going to go and you just might as well just shoot me.
Speaker 2:And I'm just like. So there is this great I'm trying to remember like episode 27,000 of Walking Dead I can't even remember Season whatever and it's like this couple and essentially like they actually. So what we've agreed to is like we don't want to be the ones trying to rebuild the world, we want to be the ones like who. The moment we get like a freaking tomato plant to grow, somebody comes in, stomps it or takes over. Yeah, we don't want to be those people. And so there's this great one where it's like this couple and they basically have like pills, right, like they've been surviving, oh, okay, all the things they've been surviving. That's that how I'm waiting on them. Yeah, exactly, they're back to the moment that it appears that this is it and we're going to die. They've got those pills and I just said to Joe we just need to have those on. So I'm hand right now.
Speaker 2:So, like the moment, the moment that this shit goes down, we can be like love, ya, which is like the notebook. Exactly, that's going to be how we go out if the shit goes down. So everybody knows, like you know, because there was a time and don't get me wrong, I'm sure if we got to that point we would still have the human urge to survive, right. But there's a time where it's like we need to have a plan, like with our children, like where are we going to meet? And then it's like they're spread all over the country. The answer is we're not right, like it's not, that's the answer, and so because there won't be any safe place. And so it's like so, yeah, so now the best second second place plan is have the pills on the ready and when it goes down, we'll just not that. I am obviously supporting the idea, or making light of the idea, of taking your own life.
Speaker 2:That any stretch but, in all seriousness, because I am a believer that at some point something major is going to happen. Who knows, maybe it will be in our lifetime, maybe it won't, and I'm just being realistic about the fact that I don't want to be the one fighting the zombies. I'm okay going in the first wave.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we are creating a time capsule right now For the people that know us. We're creating a time capsule right now, guys. So this is what's going to go down and it's not. It's not. You know our lack of loving our families and wanting to to escape across the United States to save our family. We, we've raised you. You know how to get out if you want to get out, if you don't. That's right, that's what we're doing. So in my last text, my kids will be like I'm out bitches, you know, like Love you, good luck, good luck.
Speaker 2:Don't forget to wear sandwear. By the way, we got here by talking about the weather.
Speaker 1:Yes, Zombie apocalypse and how we're going to off ourselves.
Speaker 2:That's where we started, so let's bring it all back, shall we? We, actually you guys, if you so. We are recording this episode on March 3rd and today the episode that's already been pre-recorded that just dropped features my friend, now our friend, rose Chang, and she is incredibly transparent and open about her community.
Speaker 1:Can I just say how cute she is. I know she does a fucking button.
Speaker 2:I just want to pick her up and put her in my pocket and carry her around and she's just adorable and she's one of these people who has, like you know, the lush, long black hair and the beautiful skin, and I think she had a wrinkle to be seen. I don't think she's hit 50 yet. She looks like she's fucking 12.
Speaker 1:So we have a lovely relationship around that.
Speaker 2:But I envy her that she's gorgeous and she's gorgeous inside and out, which I love. But she, you know, she shared her journey. If you haven't listened to that episode already, you need to go back to it. But she shared her journey, supporting her now senior through the school process and all the kind of transformations and revelations that they faced, et cetera. But that inspired Jane and I because we do a lot of coaching in our own right with people in the world around us and a lot of that coaching centers on parenting and so we were like let's just bring some of that to the table here. And we've done that in bits and bursts and bits and pieces across different episodes in the year that we've been talking with you guys. But today we're going to get laser focused on. You know, when we were talking with Rose Jane, one of the things that you know we kind of said is like, okay, so she was at that point where she was at what she now describes as kind of her lowest.
Speaker 2:She was the epitome of the helicopter slash lawnmower parent. And here's what we mean by that. Right, the helicopter parent is that person who is so overly involved in their child's life and driving their child's life. So envision that helicopter that's like got the bird's eye view, watching every single move, making sure that they basically say, listen, this is what you should do next, this is where you should go next, this is the club you should join, et cetera, and gets way overly involved in school. Right, that's you're the parent who's like calling the teacher before the kid even tells you what their test grade is, because you've already looked and seen it, you don't like what it is and you want to negotiate.
Speaker 2:Right, and the lawnmower combination is the parent who does all those things and also literally like a lawnmower in front of their kid through life is getting rid of all barriers, all obstacles, clearing the path, making sure it's easy, all the things, and so that really kind of inspired us to think about, like, how do we end up in those spaces and what are some alternatives, right? Like, where are we? So this episode is really all about like, what kind of parent are you and what kind of parent do you want to be? And, frankly, what kind of parents are kids need us to be? There are going to be the thriving young adults, right, that they want to be. So that's what we're going to talk through today, right, is this idea of those kinds of parents? And, spoiler alert, we're going to try to avoid helicopter slash lawnmower.
Speaker 2:I know it's shocking, right? So, but let me, I want to throw another one on the table to get you to react to Jane, because I know a lot of parents like this as well and I'm super curious about your thoughts, because I would say that my parents were authoritarian parents, like they weren't helicopter, they didn't know what the hell was going on in my life outside of when I was in our home. They just didn't know, didn't care, they were oblivious, but in our home they had such strict rules and such strict boundaries. Now I'm a rules and boundaries. Girl kids need them, but the difference here is that they lack the warmth. An authoritarian parent has all those rules and boundaries, but they lack the warmth and understanding, right. So they don't come through love, they come through control, right? So I don't know. What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I've heard those terms before. I don't necessarily use those particular terms just because I learned about a different, you know, theory or or aspect of our human psychology and this. There was a book. I so disclaimer I did not read the whole book, so don't come back. I'm not sure what you're talking about, because I really know about just enough to get me in trouble and to piss people off.
Speaker 1:So there's a book that was written back in the 60s by a clinical psychologist I can't remember his name. We'll have to like, have to look at it.
Speaker 2:You wrote this. It's all yours now, yeah.
Speaker 1:I wrote the book so back in the 60s, before I was born. Okay, so it's called the games people play, and it's really about like those psychological games that we play with each other and 90% of the time we don't even realize we're doing it.
Speaker 2:but we are.
Speaker 1:And they go through this theory of transactional analysis, and I'll make it as as as uncomplicated as possible.
Speaker 2:Did you just say you're going to dumb it down? Do you think our listeners aren't smart?
Speaker 1:No, it's because I'm going to confuse myself if I got it.
Speaker 2:Okay, guys, it's me.
Speaker 1:So it's called transactional analysis and, in all in all, it talks about how we have three ego states as humans. Right, doesn't matter your age and what status you hold, but we all have these three ego states. And we have the parent, adult and child. The parent is responsible for protecting the family, right, like, even if you don't have a family, that's at your protection level. Right, and we call it the parent because I always love using this example.
Speaker 1:So when we're kids and we go to the ghost store with our parents, we get into the checkout line and what's all around you? Candy, right, Like. All those impulse buys, ooh, the soda pop and the yeah, just that in the magazines. And all the good stuff, right, and every kid when they're in there, hey, mom, ooh, look at this, like I would get sold by my kids. Like, oh, my gosh, wouldn't this taste so good? Don't you want one too? I think I'm like evil sales women. You guys, you got that from me because I do the same thing. Jenny would sell me on stuffed animals and be like, oh, it looks good with you, mom, look, it looks good, doesn't it Like you? Yes, okay, fine, yes, I was such a pushover for the big puppy dog eyes and whatever. Right, they got to me.
Speaker 1:But that parent mode is the person that's going to protect time, money, effort, all of those things. So they are very good at vague, ambiguous statements, okay. And the ones that we've all heard, no, because I said so, go, you know, not right now, maybe probably we'll think about it. You know, ask me tomorrow. All of those things where you're kind of left, like there's a little bit of hope, but you already know that it's no, so you just give up, because you've ran that course when you were three, you know, and by the time you're six or seven, you already know. You're like fuck it, whatever you know, but they're saving time. Now that's the parent. Now you can have a nurturing parent. Yeah, you know, you scrape your leg. Oh, we tap into that. Oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry, honey. Blah, blah, blah. I know all of us have that in us, but that's our trigger in our subconscious to click into that, right, oh, I'm so sorry. But then there's critical parents. I grew up with a critical parent. There was nothing that we could do right, and even if you did right, we heard about the part that you know, whatever you didn't do good enough, you know. And there's the critical parent. And again, they're saving time. Boom, boom, boom, all of that stuff.
Speaker 1:The adult is our logical person, they're the analytical person, they're the one looking at the, the cents and dollars, and they spend time doing that. So if you had that adult ego state in the checkout line, they're going to go. Well, janice, what did you eat for breakfast? Oh, you had lucky charms. That's a lot of sugar. Well, how much sugar is in this candy bar? And you know. And they start looking and they're reading and they're negotiating with you and all of the well, maybe at two o'clock you can have half of it. Meanwhile there's a line of people behind you.
Speaker 1:That's why the adult doesn't get engaged in times where the parent could just move on, right. And then we have the child. We have the adaptive child that's going to be like, okay, okay with that critical parent and work with it. And then we have the rebellious child that, oh, I don't like this. Well, then I'm going to go do this, you know, and it's all inside of us, okay. And it shows up as adults, as children and everything else. And so I use it in that way to explain what ego state were you in during that moment. What right saying? What right was your mindset? Okay, and then we have the critical parent. How can we get to the nurturing parent or get to the adult, because the adult's going to be the one that's going to actually listen to all the things we need to listen to, right, in that parent mode? And we and we have our parent, you know, shield on, we're not listening, we don't care, we don't, we don't give a shit what you're saying.
Speaker 2:No, does that make sense? Yeah, no, it does. So I hear you saying like there's there's three egos, if you will, inside of us the parent, the adult and the child, and how we show up in any given moment, not even just around parenting, right.
Speaker 1:But I use this for sales coaching, believe it or not. You know, because who are you selling to? Are you selling to the parent? That's just. You know, nicola, and and like just again.
Speaker 2:I want to be clear. Clear for people who are hearing this for the first time. When we say parent, you're not saying to a person who's a parent, but like are you selling to the parent? Ego state.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Are you selling to the parent ego state that they're defensive and they don't have time for you? You can't sell to the parent ego state because they will not allow it. You have to show them ways that it's going to engage the adult. Oh, you can save me money. Oh, so you have to be. You have to gain the trust of the parent to get to the adult or the child, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah it does.
Speaker 1:Those ego states show up in everyday life all day long, right as humans don't realize. We have these ego states and that's what's really happening. Yeah, so when, when Rose was talking, and you know, and I was just listening to what she was saying at the beginning and she was like I, was like I, she drove every aspect of her daughter's educational career, drove it, yeah, daughter, like she, really didn't, she even, admittedly, like I, it was all my plan.
Speaker 1:And her daughter was compliant like until a certain point and, and I love that, her daughter spoke up for herself yeah, my God, because I was that child like I was the one you know having an overbearing parent in different ways, and I was, I was scared of her you know I was scared of what the ripple effect would be.
Speaker 1:obviously Rose was not an abusive parent Right, there wasn't that fear and that but allowed her to talk about it and to put her foot down. Her daughter put her foot down and say this is not what I want. So she felt safe enough and she had her dad supporting her to almost going a little hey wire over here in her own little little world, you know. And the fact that Steve jumped in and really put forth that like really heard his daughter out and said I'm going to support you here and I'm going to help, that was huge. And Rose even admits that, like if he wouldn't have gotten involved, like where would we be right now?
Speaker 2:Well, and because he helped build the bridge right, and I feel like that's the ideal co-parenting situation is that we're all going to have those moments where, no matter how we show up regularly, we have a moment where we show up in a way that we regret, and so having that co-parent who doesn't come off as, that's okay, honey, I'm on your side and we're against her and we'll fight the battle, but more of a. I understand where you're coming from and now let me help bridge it because we're a team, no matter what, as parents.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's the exact balance that a lot of single parents don't have.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:And so the fact that she had a you know that she has a viable spouse that does get involved is huge, because those are the times where being a single parent are really hard, because you think you're making the right decision, you think that I'm being this way because X, y and Z. But we don't always see the whole thing. And in that moment her parent was her critical parent, was engaged, you know, like this is what we're doing blah, blah, blah. But his adult was engaged and was like wait a minute. I'm hearing things between the lines and I'm seeing that the emotional intelligence is there with the adult. It's not so much there with the parent, because they really don't give a shit.
Speaker 2:You know, in that ego state, in the ego state, and I think that you know, like you said, that balance, I think, is what is so critical and I think that you know, when you get to the core of coaching in any front, right is understanding that.
Speaker 2:So it's like, as I'm sitting through this and you know, as, with our listeners of mine trying to kind of make sense of it, I almost feel like, like you said, we all carry around those three ego states all the time yeah, and overall right. There's kind of two big buckets of, or three big buckets rather of, parenting right models, if you will. There's this idea of authoritative. Again, like I said, hear the rules, because I said so without any of the warmth and love and like nurturing that comes with it, just because I'm in charge and so now you have to do it right. The authoritative or, I'm sorry, authoritarian is this idea of I'm sorry, I screwed them all up. Authoritarian is what I just said. Authoritative is really like, okay, I have rules and we have boundaries, but it brings the love to the table, right, and it brings them.
Speaker 1:Right more nurturing parent.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's the adult who comes through, from the adult ego that comes through in terms of here's the why, right, here's why I'm going to do this. Let's even co-design some of these Azure. Kid gets over, right?
Speaker 2:Yep, I agree they need to be a part of deciding the boundaries and stuff so that they understand the why. In the midst of all of that is this idea of permissive parenting, right? That's, frankly, the doormat the parent who, for the sake of wanting always to have always, basically just taking the easy road, I would say, by letting their kids do whatever they want. And there was a book I read years and years and years ago called the Price of Privilege, and I do not remember the full titles of many books. This one I remember because it hit so hard and I can't remember as an APR principal at the time, but it was a clinical psychologist who works with teens, and so she basically was writing about the idea that what has happened?
Speaker 2:And again, this book is 20 years old, right, but at that point in time we had so many dual income families, right? So both parents were working. She worked with mostly, I'm going to say the kids of mostly, like white collar homes, if you will. And so both parents were working, plenty of money, kids lived in good homes, had what they needed, etc. And yet, even back then, seeing growing numbers of kids with depression and anxiety, etc. And in her research, when she pulled it apart, what she discovered is that the relationship of the parent to the child. It was this permissive parenting piece was parents who have so little time with their kids because of their jobs and their other responsibilities that when they're with them they don't want to fight. When they're with them, they don't want to enforce boundaries, they just want to like chill and have a good vibe and whatever. And so so, essentially, a crisis of like permissive parenting as a result of that right, so we can go. I think it goes without saying that that's not good.
Speaker 1:No, but let me bring it back around. If you grew up in an environment where you had to be an adaptive child most of your life, like you and I did, it becomes second nature to just be adaptive of an adaptive parent, yeah, and just adapt to what's going on and be okay with it and stuff like that. Because, you're right, we don't want to that little time that we get to spend with our kids. It's hard to go. Okay, now we need to talk about this and now we need to talk about your grades. And I know I wasn't home two nights last week because of the other, but I'm here to tell you this is whatever, and it's hard. I'm a single parent. I've been a single even though I've been married multiple times. We've talked about this and if you don't know about this, go way back.
Speaker 2:We're not going to tell you how many times you have to go back and listen to the first five percent. It's a surprise.
Speaker 1:But being that, and even when I was married, in all of my relationships it seems like it was me and the kids, and so I was still making those decisions by myself. I was still doing everything by myself, because I always had partners that were that complacent parent. I guess so it was me, but there are times, even now, where I'm just like I don't want to deal with this and we bounce in and out of it. I have to be the parent, adult and child at all times, thinking about it. Which person do I want to engage right now and what's going to serve me the best? Because I'm aware of it and because I know I'm aware of my capacity and because you and I both do 5,000 billion things. I don't even know, but I think about that.
Speaker 1:That adaptive child if you were forced to be an adaptive child to avoid conflict as a child, you carry that with you and until you have your own children, a lot of people realize oh shit, what am I doing? And I got to admit when you were talking it clicked in my head and that's why I'm talking about it now. It's like you were such an adaptive child. I wasn't really rebellious per se until I was in my teens, but that was because I was sick of this shit. I was like life isn't that bad, and so it became more of not rebellion, because I still made really great grades, never missed school, but I worked and I stayed away from the house and that's how I was rebelling, because I didn't want to be down the chaos and then that was seen as me being a prostitute.
Speaker 2:Oh, my God and I. It's funny because I yeah, that's exactly right. And I remember, I remember this is so funny, how you have like those vivid memories. Like I have a vivid memory of being in the backseat of the car, my mom driving, and I don't even I don't remember what we were talking about.
Speaker 2:I'm sure it was because, you know, like you, like in high school I spent as much time as school as possible when I was working, anything I could do to stay out of the house, because it was not physically safe for me to be in the home with my father and so and so. And I remember, like I'm sure it was about me wanting to do one more thing, right, and needing to go one more place or whatever. And I remember my mom, like just with the snidest look on her face, saying something to the effect of you're not better than us, right? And I remember her thinking in my head like what am I saying? That is implying that I think I'm better than you, right. And of course I know I know that was her Manifesting her own shit, right, like I get that. But because I was like Striving for better, because I was striving to go to college, because I I was seen as stuck up and Good for everybody else in our family.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah. The fact that I had a job as a teenager, oh yeah, and I usually had two jobs at a time.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah pissed my mom off so bad. The only reason why she would like allow it was because I helped buy groceries, I helped pay bills and give her money, you know. And so because I was giving her money was the only reason why she supported it. Because she loves money and she loves all the people's money, because she never has any of her own, so she doesn't get everybody else's. Um, um, yeah. We could go on and on about hair braing screens on who to sue and, oh my god.
Speaker 1:That's a fire side chat. That's a fire side chat. We will talk about that, because oh, oh boy a little gait and nickel for every time.
Speaker 1:I know let's sew them, oh my god. But yeah, it was like it's, it was that set of independence and but I would get told that all the time You're not better than us and and you just think you're better than me and and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like it has nothing to do with you. It's about me wanting to be somewhat successful and manage my own life and not have this going on. You know, that's, that's all I'm thinking.
Speaker 1:So, but the positive mindset and outlook and and the and the drive to have better Was what pissed her off, because she had zero drive. Oh yeah, she met my stepdad. She quit her little job at a tourist traps shop in making, you know, bathroom baskets, remember, with the, with the little, the oil beads and stuff. She used to do that all along and Soon, as she met my stepdad and they decided they were gonna get married, like that was. She didn't work again, yeah, like she was going to be taken care of and and so that was her whole thing. So, because I wanted to work, she thought that I thought I was better than her.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, absolutely, Well, because like, yeah, again, it has nothing to do with.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so it's, and I love how we're able to like think about all of this in the context of both how we were parenting and you said this last Week with Rose.
Speaker 2:You said you know we've worked hard to become the parents we wanted to be and, frankly, the parents wanted to have yeah so with that in mind, like some of the more common language that we hear now, when we think about parenting Right, like if you're gonna see a clip on you know some news show or whatever what they're usually talking about is three Ideas. They're talking about the idea of helicopter parents, lawnmower parents and lighthouse parents and they all fall within a kind of under this whole like Authoritative versus authoritarian right, but they fall, all fall under there. So we've talked about this, we already said this in this, this conversation, that lawnmower parenting and helicopter parenting. It's like one is an extra, one is a more extreme of another. Helicopter is like overall, like big picture.
Speaker 2:You're constantly involved in your kids life, you know all their stuff, beforehand even, and you usually, like rose, you have good intentions right, Of course you're hindering right, you're hindering your kids, kids Development, and and and and it leads to them being over reliant on you, having a lack of resilience right and and having a lack of like ability to persevere right, because you've been there. The lawnmower takes that to another level because, like I said, in addition to that, you're also like moving every possible space in which they could pitfall or fail or what have you out of the way, which sends this really Strong message, in my opinion, and the message is I don't think you can do it exactly and I don't trust that you can do it.
Speaker 1:Trust, trust and this is something I hit on all the time, especially when it comes to, like, parenting, but then also team building and stuff like that. Trust is the foundation to every relationship. That's right, every relationship. And if there is zero trust on one side or the other or both, you're never going to have the results that you are wanting or planning. Yeah, and and, and. You're a hundred percent right. All of those actions, the mowing, that's such a good Visual for me.
Speaker 1:I mean like just just mowing everything down. That does nothing for the child on. Here's the thing, and here's. Here's something that I, working with young adults, have noticed about our younger generation. Troublem solving skills and Solution-based thinking is not something that is very common with younger people. You have to develop those skills, and if you had a lawnmower parent Life, guess what you didn't get to do? Yeah, you had no way. You know everything. Ever. All obstacles were moved out in front of you. So now you now it's hard to do to. That's when panic sets in, that's when anxiety sets in. Who's gonna do this for me? Who's gonna? How am I gonna do this? I don't even know.
Speaker 1:But if you put forth those, if you empower your children to problem-solve on their own and not be the source of solutions, you're setting them up for success. So one more parenting and helicopter parenting. But lawnmower is like well, you're, you're the safety net. You can't be the safety net all the time. You have to let your, your, your children fail. And I use that term loosely, because we really never fail. We Succeed or don't succeed, and if we don't succeed, there's opportunities to succeed still. We just need to make adjustments.
Speaker 2:That's well and I'm not. I mean, I actually would push on that a little bit and say I Actually don't stare away from the word fail. It is okay, like it's not that we don't really fail. We do fail, but we have this. We have this kind of mindset right now of failures bad, but instead it's like and in schools that's what we're trying to do right is shit that you learn from failure and without failure we're not learning. And so we have to like, allow our kids to do that, especially as they're younger, and developing those skills so that when it becomes high stakes, they have a the the ability to get through it and see that they can.
Speaker 2:It's okay, right, but and be maybe a skill set that prevents them from failing as badly as they would have if they hadn't been building those skills all along. And I I brought up something that Is a piece of research that we use in my day job, that is so Important in this conversation and that is, like, based on the World Economic Forum Right, who is an organization that does future of jobs, research, etc. And they do over for each year about, like, here the top skills that employers need, here the top industries, here the jobs that are going away because of you know, ai and all the things. And the top skills now are analytical thinking, creative thinking, resilience, flexibility and agility, motivation, self-awareness, curiosity and lifelong learning, technological, technological literacy, dependability and attention to detail, empathy and active listening, leadership and social influence and quality control. Those are the top 10 skills around the world that employers are looking for, and I will screenshot this and put it in the Note.
Speaker 2:I love, but, but what's important is that we have this conversation in schools, right, with school districts, and thinking about, like, what are the competencies kids need and what should we be preparing them for? But think of how much of this is developed at the end and home and Influenced by how we parent. Like you said, if I'm lawnmowering for you every single day, you are not developing resiliency, flexible, or our Flexibility, agility, motivation. You're not developing any of that stuff. And, by the way, our schools can do whatever they want to do all day long. But if at home I have a lawnmower or helicopter parent who's just driving it all, yep, then what I got in schools, it can only take me so far. It has to be that parent School partnership that helps that says yes, we're all agreeing to this, right, this is what we're agreeing to and this, now we're gonna do it at home. That's how you're gonna do it at school.
Speaker 1:Absolutely in. And you know, I think for both your and my upbringing, what really helped us be the humans that we are is that we were left to do shit on our own. Oh yeah, I didn't get any. Nothing was done for me. Nothing like I do. I remember being Very young, being responsible for my brother Devin our brother. Sorry, I'll share him with you.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 1:Sorry.
Speaker 2:We all have those relations, trauma, push it down, girl baby, it's very it.
Speaker 1:Okay, it's, it's shoved down. Okay, out here, you guys Do as I say, not as I do. Okay, um, no it.
Speaker 1:I Was responsible for him at a very like I was forward, he was three. It was like there's your little brother and I'm like, okay, I remember at a very young age I got the shit out of me because he was three and got and got into the cookie jar. And my dad, because I was responsible, our father, yeah, spanked me with a leather flip-flop until I pissed my pants. Like I remember that vividly. You're living in his boss's house and I was sleeping on the couch in the living room.
Speaker 1:You know, and from a very young age I was made responsible for other people. Yeah, so, and at the age of eight, when my little sister was born and my mom kept me home from second grade, like I had was taking care of an infant Hi, look at me, I mean you're having an infant and so, and even in school, and like, had to push through and register myself for high school and yeah, and all of those, I was always having to figure shit out. Thank you, thanks, mom. The one thing, the one thing that I can really say that I really appreciated from her was that you know, yeah, cuz she, I don't, I don't you know.
Speaker 2:So, yes, you and I can look back at that and say you know which? I say it this way, right, Like when people hear my story they say, oh my god, like you know that's though, that's horrifying and you know, and if only that hadn't happened to you and I and I say all the time like, careful, what you ask for, right. And so, yes, it would be nice to have gone through a childhood without that happening to me. But I know who I am because of my set of experiences.
Speaker 2:Now that doesn't mean you couldn't pull out, say the rape, and I would still be a good person, Are you sure I don't?
Speaker 2:know, I know I know Again, not making a lie to that, but you know so but the bigger point being like, I am who I am because of my experiences, and so, if you pull certain parts of it out, who knows who I would be. But all of that to say that I do think there's a nice middle ground, right, there's a nice middle ground of a space where you can provide the opportunity for kids to do what you and I had to do in terms of step up, be resilient, take on things that people don't really think we can take on, and the term that I love for it is lighthouse parenting. It's that idea that you know we're going to give you all the challenges. We're not going to stand it all down, but we're going to provide a guiding light. We're going to develop a relationship in a way that you know that you can come to us and that there's going to be guidance and love and nurturing, that we're going to support you when you fail and not tell you how to figure out what to do next, but be a thought partner with you as you think through Right.
Speaker 2:And so here's what that looks like, and I can't remember if I've shared this story before. So, if so don't stop me because I want to share it again. No, and so, and the story is like I remember when Montana and Sigourin Elementary School and we lived on this little street in a small town and you know we had like three or four houses with neighbors, with kids right, and so all the kids all played together and a family moved in of immigrants probably, I don't know, about a year and a half before we left that area and they had girls the same age and so they all played together. Well, I remember them coming home from school one day, really upset because some kids on the bus were teasing these two girls because they didn't speak English.
Speaker 1:Well, Now I didn't catch this. Is this when you were a child or when you're kids?
Speaker 2:No, no, no. When Montana and Sigourin were little, when they were like elementary school, yeah, and they were so upset because it was bullying, right, they were like this is what they said and this is what they did. And so if I were a helicopter parent, I would have been like, don't worry, and I was a principal at the time, so I could have easily. I knew their principal.
Speaker 2:Very well, I could have easily picked up the phone and called her and said hey, and so I said okay. But instead of doing that right, what I did was say okay. So what do you think?
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:About it right, yeah, and so they thought about it for a little bit and they said well, can you call Ms So-and-So the principal? I said I could, but what can you do about it?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And long story short, where they finally got you through that conversation, as I prompted and whatever was. Well, we could go talk to the counselor tomorrow morning and tell her and let her know that we're upset, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I said I think that's a really great idea. That's what they did. Now, it was hard because, even though their counsel was great, kids get all nervous and get pits in their stomach when they have to talk to adults and it's conflict, right. And so we talked about does your tummy feel funny right now? Like, does it feel like there's like something there? And they were like, yes, and they were so stressed about it, even though they knew they were doing the right thing. They were so stressed about it.
Speaker 2:But the next morning, and you know when, they were getting ready for school the next morning, so tell me, like, do you wanna talk through it? And so then they were like, well, we're gonna get off the bus and we're gonna go right to her office, but we're really worried because we might be late to class and what if our teacher's gonna mad at us? So then I was able to say so what do you think that the counsel? Okay, well, she'll give us a pass, yep, exactly, so you don't have to worry about that. And then they were like well, this is what I think I'm gonna say, and that has, by the way, been a core part of parenting for me is giving our kids the opportunity to role play.
Speaker 2:What do you say what? Are you worried they might say what might happen, et cetera. Even today, right, like Sid called me yesterday to say, mom, I need your opinion on. You know, this person sent me this text wanting this thing and I really don't wanna share this thing and I'm thinking about like even as in their young 20, they still it's still a relationship that we have. But in all of that, in that scenario, they went in, they talked to the counselor. The counselor responded exactly how I would've hoped. She responded Immediately, talked to the two girls immediately and by the time they came home they said they have, you know, those two boys had to sit at the front of the bus today in order to da, da, da. So they saw the adults take action. That's the scary part, by the way, because the adults don't always come through, right, but that's an example of lighthouse parenting, right, and so that's in my mind, that's the thing you strive for.
Speaker 1:I love that term because one I love lighthouses. They're just something so stoic about a lighthouse, you know, but I love it. But I've never heard that term before and it's so true. I mean you're just the beacon in the night. You're there for guidance. You don't hit the rocks, but you might hit the rocks still and hit some fog and whatever else, but we're gonna guide you to the shore and make it back, okay, and that's it. You know, I mean there's been plenty of times and being a coach, I mean I gotta say you and I have the skill set to have these conversations with our kids effortlessly and be in control of the situation and really hold the agenda but really let them navigate where they're going with it. And that is a true gift to our children. Because we still have moments where we're just like are you fun getting me? But then we also have the moments where we're like okay, this is an opportunity to help develop my child professionally and personally. And I take great pride in that because obviously we didn't have that and I was always that parent and, like you mentioned before, like I brought that up in the last episode, like I feel like I became the parent that I always wanted. Now, just because I became the parent that I always wanted doesn't mean it's the right parent for my kids because they're very different. So I still have to remember that, like, even though I'm doing these things that I know I would have liked as a child and stuff like that, it doesn't necessarily mean it's the best way for my kids. So I'm still listening to them and I'm still learning. I mean I had to, really I have to share this moment. So yesterday I sent Janice a picture of Chacy Pants, my 18 year old daughter, with her brand new well, it's not brand new, it's used, but it's brand new to her knees on versa. But this whole process has been really interesting to me because I've really been that lighthouse parent Really have in this situation, because this is something I got zero guidance on, zero.
Speaker 1:My first car that I bought was my at the time boyfriend, but then became a husband and now as my ex-husband, obviously. But he insisted, he was a gear head, he loved cars, right, he insisted that I buy the 79 Chevy Camaro because it was only like $600. Oh my God, I didn't have my driver's license yet. I mean, I barely just started driving. I was trying to figure all of this stuff out. And that thing was a piece of shit and it was a death trap. I mean, it was falling apart. And they even joked, when I turned it in, that we're like, oh, this is the movie production side, because the other side had a big like listen, I didn't buy this, like I don't want it, take it please, just the $200 you're gonna give me or whatever. So, and I let them, I let him do that. And then, long story short, I ended up getting a different car after he left for the boot camp, when I was left with two kids and no vehicle. So I just went and made the decision for myself.
Speaker 1:But I learned a lot through that process and so I'm thinking like, okay, do I just give her all the answers and help her and tell her this is the type of car that you need to buy? And blah, blah, blah. No, I let her go and research it herself. She landed on I mean, she was looking at some pricey cars, but then she landed on this like mini, mini Cooper, oh, I'm gonna do this, blah, blah. And I'm like, okay, and it was all had all the bells and whistles and everything else, and I'm thinking 18 years old with all of this stuff, like she really. I mean, yes, it's nice to have, but she doesn't need it.
Speaker 1:And so, instead of talking to her about the actual car, I started talking to her about the payments and what is the cost, care and the maintenance and all of that stuff. The logical things. Because if you just go off of, you don't need that car, guess what? Now you're the critical parent. And now, guess what? They're not listening to you. They're like whatever, no, you just don't want me to have a nice car, blah, blah, blah Instead. And so the other night she was finalizing her paperwork, she did it all online and she goes, mom, I decided I'm gonna go with the Nissan Versa. And I was like I go, why is that? And she goes. I just have to keep reminding myself that it's my first car. And I'm like, oh my Lanta, the roof flew off my house. The angels were singing. I was like, oh my God, we did it.
Speaker 2:And you were the bad guy right, Like that's the key.
Speaker 1:It wasn't about me not wanting her to have a nice car. I wanted her to be realistic with her expectations of what she was purchasing and how much she would be spending. So we didn't focus on you don't need that car. What we focused on was what can you afford?
Speaker 2:And that's-. So I'm hearing you say the adult ego showed up.
Speaker 1:Yes, ma'am, and I live in adult ego state for the most part. I do have my emotional critical parents and stuff like that sometimes. But that adult, I reside in curiosity. I always want to know what the other side of things is and where they're coming from. So I see that that creative. Like you said, they're looking for creativity and they're looking for this and this and this. That's that lighthouse parent. That parent holds all of those things and they're not perfect all the time, but in moments of those learning moments, that's where it's like boom, here's my moment, like here's what we're going to do. So I love that and that example I think fits right in there with that, because it was an internal struggle for me, but I didn't want to be that person. So I just let's go to the facts here. Let's go to-.
Speaker 2:Is, I mean, and kind of a last thought for me so we can wrap up, but it's a reminder that it's harder to be that parent you said it earlier with the three egos, and it's true of the same in terms of parenting styles or models that sometimes we're going to slip in and out. Sometimes you're going to slip into that authoritarian piece and it's almost always the one that when you do, you come back and you regret it, which is okay, because then you go back to White House and you own that and you model what it looks like to own that. But when Joe and I first started dating and then decided to get married, he was very much an authoritarian parent.
Speaker 2:He was very much on the mind set, and not a shock when I look at where he came from. But he had parents who loved him, but it was very authoritarian, very controlling. He's been how many years in the military Exactly? Let's be real.
Speaker 2:In his mind. It's like I pay all the bills and so you'll do it, especially for easy. It's been really beautiful to watch, over 10 years of marriage, him adjust and adapt, and not because I'm nagging and saying you can't do that, you have this, but more because I'm just parenting the way I parent and so you can see the outcomes. You see what I get as a result of what I do, and it's like all of our children are on the cusp of, with the exception of one. But they're now adults, now they have a choice. Do you want them to choose to be with your adult you? I can promise you that if you're the authoritarian parent, you're the parent whose kid will see you at Christmas. Peace out, because I don't have to be with you any other time. Yeah, and really I don't even have to. Then I don't even have to be. Then what I love about that. So that's my wrap up, and then I'm going to turn it to you for your final thought.
Speaker 2:For my final thought, the title of this episode is like who are you as a parent and who do you want to be?
Speaker 2:No matter who you are, if you aspire to be one of the others, if you aspire to be that lighthouse parent. If you aspire to be that parent who has the boundaries and the structure that kids need and that's a show of love, but come with the guiding light that helps them, that shows, that helps them figure it out, then you can be that parent, whether your child is two or 27, you can be that parent. It's never too late to make the shift, and you hear, jane and I say it all the time. But the most powerful thing we do as adults, as beings, as parents, is model. And it's okay to model and say, gosh, as I've been thinking about how we raised you or how I did this or how this, I really wish I'd done this instead and I'm going to start trying to do it now, even though you're 32, with your own kids, it doesn't matter how old they are, it's never too late. All right over to you. Final thoughts.
Speaker 1:Well, first let me clarify something. Janice Nags the shit out of Joe. I've seen it happen. Oh my God, it's terrible.
Speaker 2:I can't believe. You just exposed that. Now, the image of perfection people have of me, it's just crumbled. Society as we know it is probably also going to crumble. So thank you, jane.
Speaker 1:Joe and I have a therapy.
Speaker 2:Back to the beginning of our so this is the start of the apocalypse, and now I'm going to need those pills. So thank you, you're welcome.
Speaker 1:I don't know if Joe will be taking them with you, so we'll see you always boss them around and stuff. No, I'm just kidding. It's actually really fun to watch Janice and Joe interact. They need their own reality show because it's quite funny. I had more time. It's very sassy from both sides. Oh yeah. Yeah, it's enjoyable. I like watching it Go down. No, but I just this is so important, right, and I know that we see things on Instagram and I get all of the positive vibe posts and all that stuff. But what are you doing with it? Are you saving it? Are you listening to it again? Are you really putting more thought into it other than the heart and the swipe and really bringing it to your day to day? And if you want to improve, we're here for you, and that's the big thing is beyond this podcast. Janice and I do workshops and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I spent time last weekend doing one with 40. No, I'm sorry, 60 young ladies from South LA and we talked about boundaries, you know, and we were doing that and it was just such a and it was all young women. And then on the other side of the building they had all these young men and they were doing their own thing with them and the guys were, and it was just such a wonderful afternoon to be able to spread knowledge, help them, you know, develop their core values. That was my part of it. We talked about values and it doesn't matter how old you are. I had seven-year-olds in there and they were talking about what values they need to have, what they can't live without and what they can, and it was just so cute. We were talking about what can't you live without and this one girl goes Jesus and I was like amen, sister okay, you can't live without.
Speaker 1:Let's go. I thought that the seven-year-old girl piped up and said Jesus, I was like, let's go, yes.
Speaker 2:That's amazing, you know, it's just.
Speaker 1:And I'm not a religious person and stuff like that. But I can't. I had to support her in that because she, of course, you know, and why Exactly. Who am I Right? Amen, sister, let's go, put that down. And it's about encouraging them to think for themselves, to know what they want and to really just be there to watch their journey unfold. Because Beautiful Like that. They can cut us out, and that's what I want. You know, I don't want to ever be cut out of my kids' lives. So I will apologize, you know, just the other night and I'll wrap up after this little story. So Gianna gifted us these couches. They're lovely, we love them, you know.
Speaker 1:And I walk out of my room and, mind you, I was already kind of in a funk and I look over and the dog is eating something off the couch and I'm like what is that? We just ordered Thai food. They were shrimp tails on the fucking couch and I was like I swear to whoever. Like I didn't completely lose my shit, but I was like, are you for fucking real? Like I didn't say that. But I was like what is this? Oh, I didn't know they were there. I'm like, okay, there's a difference between not knowing they were there and putting them there and leaving them there for a dog Like, why did they even make it to the couch? Guys, my ears were turned off. Yeah, All I saw and all I saw. I saw those shrimp tails and I saw my daughter and I was just like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah and she was just like tail tucked, picked up. This, you know. The next morning I said, hey, I know I wasn't listening to you last night.
Speaker 1:I don't know who showed up last night, but she's a real buzzkill, Um, but I was just like I understand that I wasn't listening to you last night, so let me apologize about that. First. She's like you know, and I'm like please understand that I do not want food put on the couch. She goes. Mom, they were on my plate and they flipped off when I got off the couch and that's why they were on the couch and I'm like thank you for not putting them directly on the couch. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I wasn't saying sorry, I'm just saying I'm really sorry for not putting them directly on the couch. I'm sorry. I'm really sorry that I didn't want to do that, thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you Because this is a child that I have to remind you to use a coaster, an app again, everything right.
Speaker 1:So I just automatically assumed that she left you know whatever. So I retracted. We're going to add that pet peeves that. Pet peeves that we were adding food on the couch. That shouldn't even be a pet peeve, jannice, my God, like, don't put food on the couch. And I was. But I did, and before I even got her side of the story and anything, I just apologize.
Speaker 1:Listen, I was reactive to the stimulus. Yeah, you caught you, you know, you were whatever. So I was like I apologize, I shouldn't have. You know, I should have listened to you. And she's like Okay, she told me. I was like you're right, sorry, you know, and she's cool, but if I would have never done that, if I never like, if I just would have let it go and stop my feet and blah, blah, blah, she's not gonna, she's gonna cut me out. You know, if I keep doing that to her, she's gonna cut me out. And so we just have to.
Speaker 1:We just have to really just understand that we're raising other humans and it's about what we can control and the authority and everything else. It's about growing up with them, because I heard something the other day and I'll wrap up with this little point is that the irritations or or the experiences that we have with our kids, they are the ones bringing our inner child back out. They're experiencing the things that we didn't get to experience and so we kind of live vicariously through our kids and we should we shouldn't punish them for the things that upset us by what they're doing, because it our inner child getting upset that either we didn't experience it or we experience it in a different way or whatever. So just keep that in mind, you know. Keep in mind that we, we are always trying to have fun.
Speaker 1:You know we want to have fun, we want to live life. We don't want to would just exist. We want to do all these things but also we have responsibilities and everything else. But our kids are our gateway to having that fun and being jovial and bringing us back to the, the, the fun memories and building fun memories with them. So try to make it.
Speaker 2:I am, oh my god my brain's going 100 miles a minute, by the way. By the way, I've already decided we need to craft a workshop on the, this idea of lighthouse parenting, tied to this idea of the top skills that our world's parents. All right, so with that, you guys, thank you. Thank you, thank you Always for spending some time with us today. Obviously, we are, you know, our, our, the, the, the breadth of our kind of influence or impact has everything to do with you guys and the fact that you're taking some time out and that you share. So, yes, the people in your world would benefit from hearing this conversation. Please be sure to share on your social platforms like subscribe, do all the things. Of course, if you're listening right now and you want to see, go to YouTube and and watch us again and see all of our great facial expressions. We try to make it really interesting for you Exactly.
Speaker 2:You're gonna miss the air quotes if you're not on YouTube right now, but like, subscribe, follow, do all the things and we're looking forward to coming to you with another conversation next week. Peace out everybody. Yeah, all right, bye.