Parenting at the Helm: Fostering Independence, Confidence, and Emotional Intelligence in Our Children’s Lives

This episode we dig deeper into the realm of parenting styles. Building from our lawnmower to lighthouse parenting episode, we unravel the delicate art of balancing protection with independence, and how these choices shape our children's confidence and emotional intelligence.

We explore how our parenting approach is sending silent signals to your kids about their own abilities. The truth is that the echoes of our actions resonate far beyond the immediate moment. We talk about shifting from hovering over every decision to guiding with a light touch, all while supporting our children's personal growth. Join us as we share tales of emotional intelligence that highlight the profound impact parenting has on a child's ability to navigate life's complexities - from the playground to the boardroom.

And for parents out there feeling the weight of responsibility, or simply seeking validation that they're on the right track, this conversation is for you. We share heartfelt advice, personal reflections, and the courage to admit our own parenting missteps. Whether your child is taking their first steps or stepping out into the adult world, our stories, like that of our listener Rose, offer comfort that it's never too late to strengthen the bonds with your children and celebrate their unique journey.

Be sure to SHARE, FOLLOW, and SUBSCRIBE and go watch us on YOUTUBE!

Have a story to share? Email us a dumpsterdivejj@gmail.com We want to interview you!

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

You're listening to Dumpster Diving with Janice and Jane. She was a couple seconds late on that one.

Speaker 2: 0:11

I was like, and I was about to feed you your name. I was going to hold up a couple of my time on our Zoom so everybody could see that you knew your name, and I love the fact that you pause. And here's why Because, listeners, today is Sunday, march 10th, so for those of you who are tracking, it is the day we spring forward, which you know. We could spend an hour talking about how stupid that system is, but we're not going to. But I don't usually have, I usually don't get impacted by the time change. It doesn't really impact me one way or the other. I was up at what was 7 am this morning because of the spring forward and as I said to Jane, so Jane had to text me in all honesty at 9.10 and say so, I'm here, ready to go. Where?

Speaker 1: 0:56

are you? I'm sitting here looking cute. I know you do look cute, by the way.

Speaker 2: 1:00

You look super cute. I love the gloves, they're super cute. And I was like, oh shit, because it's not that I wasn't up, but I have been late to every single thing. This morning, and Jane's like don't you have a phone? Because younger sisters are assholes, but it's the truth. And I was like it's not that I don't have 27 o'clock telling me what time it is, it's that my body, literally this morning, is like oh, you still have plenty of time. And so, thank God, you pause over your own name, because now we're even so, at least I know my name.

Speaker 1: 1:28

Okay, but you now we're even, because I was the one that fucked up the intro last time and then you fucked it up. That's actually so true, that's actually true, so whoever's, even Steven who's keeping score?

Speaker 2: 1:42

Yeah, yeah, we're even right now for the scorekeepers out there, so, so now we're here, so flash forward.

Speaker 1: 1:50

We're in the part of the year.

Speaker 2: 1:52

We're ready to go, so what we're. So here's what we're going to do. You guys are starting to see a thread that we're pulling through right, because parenting is something that we're getting a lot of great feedback around, if we have a little bit of collective experience between us, and so we're going to kind of keep coming to back to different angles. If you want to think about so, if you're listening diligently every single week. A couple of weeks ago, the episode that we posted was about this idea of like lawnmower versus lighthouse parent, and so we're not going to go back into all of that. If you want to know what the hell we're talking about, go back and listen to that episode.

Speaker 1: 2:27

We'll let you know those terms because we're going to start using them on a regular basis.

Speaker 2: 2:31

Exactly All right.

Speaker 2: 2:32

So because of that, we'll remind everybody right now, for this episode's sake, that when we say lawnmower parent, it's that parent who isn't just a helicopter parent and over-involved in their child's life, but they're also like literally walking in front of them and eliminating all barriers and obstacles.

Speaker 2: 2:45

And so clearly not the ideal, because we're not preparing our young people to actually face the world on their own, whereas a lighthouse parent is offering structure and boundaries, but they're doing it with love and compassion with their children and they're lighting the way right, they're helping, they're guiding, like there's somebody. Your kids know that you're there to offer them counsel and to be a coach and those kinds of things, but you're not just removing barriers and or telling them what to do and how to navigate life. So, with that as a basis, today we want to build off of that and talk about, like, how we intentionally build confidence and emotional intelligence in our kids. And so I'm thinking, jane, why don't we start with, like, let's be clear about language, and so, if you don't mind, start us off by talking about when we say confidence, what do we mean? When we say emotional intelligence, what do we mean? That way, we have that as a basis for our conversation today.

Speaker 1: 3:33

Okay, cool. So let's talk about confidence, right? So confidence is the ability to trust in one one's own skills and and judgment to handle various situations. And you know, while while some individuals they're really great at exuding confidence in every shape and form, confidence isn't something that people are born with, but something that we acquire and cultivate throughout our lives. So, and I truly believe, I mean from I was kind of chuckling in my own head when you were giving the definitions of the the lighthouse and lawnmower parent yeah, helicopter parent and I was like I was chuckling because I was thinking of, like it being at a birthday party with a bunch of little kids. Right, we start off as lawnmower parents, right I?

Speaker 1: 4:23

mean like, we're like, we're like you know, we have to start off as lawnmower parents. You can't be a lighthouse parent with an infant, right, you're like, I don't know, I figure it out, you know, whatever. Right, we all have to start off as that, as that lawnmower parent. We are their protector. But I'm thinking about it and you go to, like now you're at the eight year old's birthday party, where most parents could be on the edges, yeah, but there's still that lawnmower parent or that helicopter parent and and and it's not.

Speaker 1: 4:56

We're not getting like the helicopter parent is. I think should be for, like the toddlers Okay, you're covering, don't bump your head on that coffee table. Oh, look, what a weevil wobbling, right, don't die. Right, yeah, and then once they're steady on their feet, they can feed, hand to mouth their own food and maybe make their own bowl of cereal. Now you're, now you can be that lighthouse parent, right, then, when you need to, you know, and be that helicopter parent here and there, but at that point, like, you got to let them figure things out and stuff like that. And and it's so funny because sometimes parents start off at that lighthouse, you know, like they're just, like they're here, I don't know, you know, so it's just I don't know why my mind was flooded with all those images and it just cracked me up when you were saying it, because I'm like, I've seen these in all different age groups and variations and I love it. We've been those parents too In some ways, and stuff like that I like the idea.

Speaker 2: 5:47

We should come back to that and map that out at some point as a really strong listener at the timeline.

Speaker 2: 5:51

Yeah, I love the idea of the birthday I I I've thought about the same idea in the past with the playground in mind, but I love the idea of the birthday party as well.

Speaker 2: 6:00

Right, and? And the how you, how different parents position themselves in those social situations with their kids, and what it says about who they are as a parent and how, how we kind of want to intentionally evolve to what your to your point versus parents who just get stuck, like Rose and she talked with us a few weeks ago. That was her thing, she got stuck as the helicopter, right and so, and then breaking away from that, so and but, but to your point, right, that this idea of confidence really makes you think about that, because the type of parent you are absolutely sending messages to your kid, because even though, like you said, when they're an infant, of course you're the lawnmower parent, because you know there's a survival mode. But as they become aware of this idea of what they're capable of, right, what I can and can't do, the more we do for them, the more we're messaging, it's because we don't, you can do it, even though that's not necessarily the point we're coming from.

Speaker 2: 6:55

I think very few parents are thinking about all my kids to know, to incompetent to do that themselves they're thinking about. Oh, I want to do it for them. I want to do a lot of reasons that we become helicopter lawnmower parents, but I think that we don't stop to think about the messaging for our kids, and our kids are definitely hearing. You don't think I can do it, right, right.

Speaker 1: 7:14

Right. So confidence we got OK. So emotional intelligence emotional intelligence, or what we'll call it as EI, is the ability to understand and manage your own and others emotions as well as well to communicate and relate effectively in different situations. And emotional intelligence can improve your self confidence as well as your personal and professional relationships. So these two go hand in hand. And as we talk and unfold and stuff like that, you'll see that continuing theme with every aspect of parenting and aspect of life, because us, as individuals, being able to read somebody's emotions and process them correctly and then be able to process our own and back and forth, is a key point to communication in itself. Yeah, if you're confident with your own stuff or being able to read the other person, man, the confidence in a lot of things can dissipate, you know so let's talk about that, because I think this is this is going to be a fun conversation, yeah.

Speaker 2: 8:18

I think so too. So I'm thinking about, like I'm going to jump in with kind of an example, right and then and I know you've got some as well, but like I have, you know, a family in my life who this is kind of current and in my head right, like I could give you lots of examples and we'll talk about some of them in terms of, like what happens by the time your kid's a teenager, when you have not intentionally helped build that confidence as a toddler, as a you know, elementary, as a middle schooler, what that kind of turns into at the teenage level. But like, more immediately, in my kind of immediate life, we have a family who has a little girl who's about five years old. It's been interesting to watch. The part of the problem about having the background I have as a special education teacher etc. Is that I tune in to little kids and I see things that make me go, hmm, all right, that's a little bit of a red flag. Or from a developmental perspective.

Speaker 2: 9:19

I had, for example, a high school friend and we've remained friends since then. We have a bunch of kids and the whole thing. I remember years and years ago when his now like 26, 27 year old son was like two or three and they came over to visit and we were going to take a walk in our community. As we were getting ready to walk out the door, he said just by the way, I want to give you a heads up because he's into something really weird right now. We were like okay, well, I mean he's like two or three. Of course he's into weird shit, like they all are at that age. I was like well, what is it? He was like he likes to lick fire hydrants.

Speaker 1: 9:58

You know, dogs pee on those right.

Speaker 2: 10:01

I wasn't really sure what to do with that. But at the time I was working really deeply with young people who have the diagnosis of autism and I had also seen some other indicators, right like him stemming on some things and that kind of stuff. I just thought, oh my god, I'm going to have to tell this friend that he might want to kid his kid. Looked at right, and also he did in fact like to lick fire hydrants. But he's grown into a fully capable man who's been married and is having children and the whole thing right. But the other kid I was thinking about was like same thing early on not a lot of talking, not a lot of speech. Her speech wasn't developing along the lines that we would expect to see happen.

Speaker 2: 10:43

But the interesting thing about that situation, and why it ties to this, is that what I noticed is that I couldn't actually determine if her speech was delayed because her mother spoke for her.

Speaker 2: 10:54

Every time you had a conversation with this kid, right, and you asked her something and she was saying things that were early on it to not quite comprehensible, right, because the language isn't that clear, but instead of letting her figure it out, or with the other person she was chatting with, figure it out, mom would jump in right and mom would jump in and say, oh, she said this or oh, she said that, and so kind of as an educator it was frustrating because it's like, okay, just let her speak, Like it's okay that I can't understand her, but she's not going to get there if we don't let her speak.

Speaker 2: 11:21

Fast forward again. She's five now and she speaks just fine. But she's also old enough that when mom still tries to do that right, so we're still helicoptering a lot she's old enough to be like mom, no, go, go go. Because she knows she wants to express herself right. So that's just an example of a way that that mom who adores her child and wants to do all the things for her and has no negative intention, is not boosting her confidence right, is not helping her build that belief in herself, because she's suggesting every time she speaks for her that she's not capable of doing it herself.

Speaker 1: 11:57

Right, right, you know it's funny, it's. I mean that's the first way. I mean, besides crying, that's the first way that babies start to communicate. Crying, you know, thrusting their body out of the stroller, whatever Exactly. You know the acting out to get attention, and so when they're finally communicating with language, you know if we're talking over them the whole time it's, it's struggle, you know, and you know, so we all know, that I have four children and I have two older ones and then two younger ones, and two older ones were only 15 months apart and my son being autistic and we knew, you know, we knew, developmentally it was, it was a little staggered and we were wondering, but his older sister would do all the talking for him.

Speaker 1: 12:45

You know, they're 15 months apart, she spoke his language, you know, and that was her baby, you know, that was her baby doll. So he, you know, developmentally, didn't start walking until he was about 15 months old. But he would, he would gesture for things, but she, she would just talk for him and I had to really like work with her to, you know, let him say it, let him say it, I know what he wants. I said I know what. She started talking very early.

Speaker 2: 13:12

You're like.

Speaker 1: 13:12

I know that you know, I know, you know she was walking in nine months like she was a powerhouse, you know, and she still is, you know. So she's definitely my child, but I had to really work with her, not to talk, speak for him. But we started talking about this all together because my youngest daughter, who is, is four years younger than you know, chase chased it a lot of that for her too, and, and I noticed, at a very young age she had, you know, I never got her diagnosed with this or anything like that, but I felt like she had selective mutism because at home she would talk, no problem, very intelligent, very, you know, intellect, you know, intellectual, like she. Just she uses great words and you know it does all the things. But she would clam up in restaurants, anywhere public. She would sing at school, but anytime they had a production she would, she would lip sing, she wouldn't even nothing would come out of her mouth because she would like freeze up when it was in front of like the whole you know audience and stuff like that. And so I really worked with her. Chase would talk for her a lot, and so I really worked with Chase, you know. But even now she's 13.

Speaker 1: 14:25

And just, you know, the other day we're in the kitchen and I and I had said something like well, just talk to them about it. And she was like mom, you know, I only really talk to you. And Chase she's like and I'm like what I go still, jenny still? And she was like I just I'm just so shy and and you know we've talked about this before she's like you and Chase are so outgoing, you know, and and and and you just talk to anybody and it's no big deal. And I want to be more like that. But I don't know how. And I was like, okay, well, we're going to have to start working on it. Then, you know, we're going to figure out what's going to. You know, boost, that, what is it? Are you not confident? No, she is very confident. Like I don't know, I just I just don't want to talk. You know, I'm just, I guess she's comfortable being shy, you know, and she's going into high school. She's like I really want to be able to talk to people, I really want to do those things. So we're starting to work on that.

Speaker 1: 15:17

But I thought about it and when I and I thought back to when she was little and would shut down and stuff and thinking to the, the revelations she's having. Now she wants to be more like me and Chase she would. She would let us talk for her. You know she would always be in the front and and she liked it. You know there was a level of protection or whatever. But now it's becoming very relevant to me that she liked that. So just, she still does it. I mean even to the same, like Jenny tell them what you want. You know I'm year 13. I can't order for you anymore. But she's just super shy, you know, and so. But that was because of us, our personalities, of being maybe a little overbearing and stuff like that. So it just made me think.

Speaker 2: 16:00

You finally admitted it, because I've been wanting to tell you that for a long time.

Speaker 1: 16:04

You've only known me for not even two years, so I feel better. I feel better. Your whole life I've been waiting to tell you that your whole your whole life.

Speaker 2: 16:15

But that's actually such an interesting point, right, because think about that, like, as parents of young littles, right, of course we like, it's an instinct, like you said, it's not, it's the most natural instinct I think we have is being the lawnmower.

Speaker 2: 16:28

That's the most natural instinct built into our DNA to be the protector and to make sure this young version of me survives. Right, so that survival instinct is so built into us. I think that being anything but that is intentional, right, it has to be intentional because otherwise that's who we'd be. So, even when they're little, like that, yes, like I remember at young, young ages with our kids, like in restaurants, saying, okay, montana, tell them what you want, or okay, and, and you know they, they would be shy, right, and sometimes it would be like whispered, and then I would tell them and then eventually they could do it on their own. But our instinct is to say, okay, I'll just tell them, right, like, let them point and I'll just tell them. But I love what you're talking about right now, because now that she's 13, a, she recognizes it in herself and she wants to be different in terms of being able to communicate.

Speaker 1: 17:16

I'm proud of her emotional intelligence.

Speaker 2: 17:18

A freaking men Exactly To be that self-aware. Yeah, yeah, it's huge right and so, and I almost think that the good thing is that when they're old enough to be that self-aware and to have that level of EI, like you said, that's the time where you really can dig in and really use strategies, because up until that point again, that low key instinct is protect them. You don't want to embarrass them or humiliate them or what I mean. It's tricky. I think that's the message I want people to take is, no matter where you are on the spectrum as you're listening to this, if you're like, oh, should I do that all the time for my kid, know that. We know that it's tricky, it's not easy. You just have to be super thoughtful about it. What are you guys thinking about in terms of? Have you guys talked a little bit about strategies that you might start to use?

Speaker 1: 18:09

Yeah, she's so cute because she's always had this. She's so cute. We were talking about it.

Speaker 2: 18:17

We know she's cute, I know.

Speaker 1: 18:18

I love her personality because there's a surprise around every corner. The other day we were in the car driving and I was like so have you thought about what you want to be when you get older, now that you're 13,? We asked them, or I asked them throughout the years, but it always changes. I just loved to hear about their little imagination.

Speaker 1: 18:37

She hits me with I want to be a race car driver and I'm like oh my God, I love it, I look over at her and I was like, oh, okay, I go, like what kind she goes, the ones that go around in the circle and goes around fast. I was like, well, most race cars. She was thinking like drag race stuff, like that. I was like, okay, she's like NASCAR. And she's like, yeah, I just want a fast car. Because just a couple of months ago she told me that she wants she has two cars, that she wants her dream cars a Tesla and a Hellcat. Oh God, that's hilarious Right there, that not only are you economical, yes, but you are a speed queen, like.

Speaker 2: 19:12

Right, you therefore will. That will be getting your driver's license. You're welcome.

Speaker 1: 19:15

You therefore will be getting a bicycle, the governor on it. And a helmet and pads, yeah, and you'll figure out a way to make it faster. I don't know. So, my God. So I'm like, all right, I go. Well, we need to figure out how to get you into racing, because I'm like, I'm about this life, let's go, you know like You're like. Let's go. She goes. Do you have to go to college for that? I'm like I probably not, but a good driving school is probably definitely. That's right, that's right, oh my.

Speaker 2: 19:45

God, that's hilarious.

Speaker 1: 19:48

So we're talking about it and she's getting all excited, you know, and so I'm like okay, what else? And she was like I really want to do. She's been wanting to do either martial arts or something like that, and so she's. She's been going on her lunch break at school and they have like a trainer there that's helping the kids. She's like one of the teachers and she was doing like sparring and she's like I want to do a boxing class, like a real boxing class, not boxing, yeah, the kind where you beat each other up.

Speaker 1: 20:16

And I was like Okay, because she also has this fascination with having muscles and I'm like I'm about that life too. Yeah, go, you know, and so and so, yeah, she's last time Okay.

Speaker 2: 20:27

We should have her in all seriousness. We should have her talk with Montana, because Montana is doing Crop Maga and she's been doing it for years and she just tested last weekend or two weeks ago into the advanced level, which I can't remember, where color belt that tied to a belt color.

Speaker 2: 20:43

And I think I shared in a previous episode that I did an introductory class when I was there in Virginia with her about a month ago. I'm going to do another one next weekend. But the reason I say it is because it's like it's kind of like, you know, obviously it's kind of a it's not a martial art, I don't think it's considered that, but it's like Israeli street fighting, right. So it's like Perfect. And even in the introductory class it's like the teacher, the coach, was like we're going to hit each other, right. He's like we can't prepare to fight if we don't actually hit each other when we're preparing. Now we're not going to like really hurt each other.

Speaker 2: 21:21

And when it was like the growing kick move, we had a pad right. But he's like but we're going to hit each other. And when Montana leads those classes, she has bruises, she has scratches, she has. Because it's like if you're really going to instinctively be able to fend off an attacker, you have to know what it feels like to fend off an attacker. So it's badass. So I'm just yeah that's another great avenue.

Speaker 1: 21:43

She likes the sparring part with the pad, the hand pads, so she's like she is that's cool, yeah, and they have those all over the place, like those gyms that do you know?

Speaker 2: 21:53

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 21:54

I found the gym locally. I mean, we live in a little small town so there's not many, but there's one up the road from us that does youth boxing. So I'm like, oh, very cool, it goes up to 14. So I'm like, okay, I feel good. Perfect, youth boxing for two years and then Exactly Trying out and then go, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 22:11

So, yeah, I want to sign her up for that. I think that she would really like it. I might even sign up too, because I need to get my rear end into the some type of gym and I can't. Yeah, I love the regular gyms, so I think that would be something fun. So, but, yeah, and so, but I think that doing stuff like that builds your confidence.

Speaker 1: 22:29

You know, when one thing that my mom you know as much as I bag on her, you know, for very relevant and Good reasons yeah, good reasons. She got us into 4-H when I was in junior high school and I it made me present. Yeah, I had chicken and chickens and goats and rabbits and I did table place settings and tables and made menus and they, I, she had me doing all these things that I had never done before. But when you do showmanship with the animals, you're out there in a ring with judges and that helped me because I was just like Jenny. I had, I had a critical, overbearing mother and I was just. Every mother loved me because I was quiet. And I'm realizing these things as I'm talking to her. I'm like, oh, my God, I was the same way. Isn't that funny? You know the observer and would love the drama, but stay behind because I don't want to get trouble, but I'm going to watch it happen.

Speaker 1: 23:30

We are so much alike. I'm like that's hilarious, holy crap. So I'm like you know what, that's what helped me, and and you know what? And she's asking for it, she's about it. We're going to do this.

Speaker 2: 23:42

You know you got to do it, you got to make it happen, right.

Speaker 1: 23:45

And that's really what helped me with my confidence after that. You couldn't, you couldn't tell me, that's right. Yeah, you could tell me shit, because I learned that people would be nice to me. I learned you know and all those things, and I'm like I don't, I don't need this criticalness, you know, I don't. Yeah, that was. That was a good turning point for me with with the way I saw myself.

Speaker 2: 24:07

And it was exposure to adults outside of your home, yeah, who gave you positive feedback, who showed that they were interested, which, by the way, that that's not always going to happen, right, sometimes you put yourself out there and you get the asshole, right.

Speaker 2: 24:18

Yeah, who's who's condescending or whatever, because you're a little, you're a child, or your girl or both or whatever. So that's not always going to happen, but, but creating those opportunities right, is really critical. And even as a high school principal, you know I worked with a group in our school who supported it was like a peer support group, right, so they supported other kids in different ways. But one of the things they do at the start of the school year is a bunch of different like video I'm going to use the word lessons on how to navigate high school, right, and I remember vividly one of our conversations being about how important it was for them to do some role playing with how to talk with adults. Right, because you know, you know, as, as the helicopter, parent is shifting to the White House parent, if you haven't done that by high school, you're already behind, right?

Speaker 1: 25:06

Right Way behind, yeah.

Speaker 2: 25:08

We can't do that, we can't make that shift without building the capacity of our kids to then step into those roles. If you're always the parent who reaches out to the teacher when there's a problem, unless you coach your kid up to be able to do it, it can't be today I'm doing it and tomorrow I'm not right. There's got to be some in between ground and so this group of kids would create videos where they would role play. Okay, let's say you disagree with a grade that you've got. How do you talk to the teacher about that? Right? What does it look like to talk to the teacher about it and they would role play?

Speaker 2: 25:36

Okay, let's say you got your course schedule and there's a class that was wrong or that you're concerned about because you've had that teacher before. How do you go talk to your counselor and do that right From the beginning of like, you email them, you make a request to get on their calendar to da-da-da and then, when you're having the conversation, like, we can coach our kids up around these things, but lots of times we don't think to do it right. So, because the flip side of the lighthouse or the A helicopter parent is a parent who I'm trying to think of the name of this and I now I'm forgetting the name of it, but like who just kind of, under the auspices of helping you build your confidence, just dumps you into it, right, and if you dump us into it and we fail, we're going to have a hard time recovering from that. So how do you set?

Speaker 1: 26:18

us up? How do we set them up?

Speaker 2: 26:19

Yeah, how do we set them up for success? By coaching them right, Coaching them up.

Speaker 1: 26:24

You know, that's a great point because when I first started working with the nonprofit out of LA, it was on a grant, a large grant that we got for, oh my gosh, scholarships for 200 individuals, right, and I've told that story before where I single-handedly coached 200 individuals through, you know, two years worth of their schooling and everything. And one of my coaches in particular is right here and now and this woman super intelligent, multiple degrees, all of those things but again, this emotional intelligence and confidence plays a key part in our day-to-day life in so many different ways. She was awarded a scholarship. She was awarded $5,000 to go towards a certificate. She already had it all picked out and everything else. Well, we were in a transition and so I started and there was multiple people that have been awarded multiple months ahead of time and hadn't received any communication from our team when I started and I was like, whoa, how many people have been awarded? There was like 45. And I'm like, how many people have we talked to? Five.

Speaker 2: 27:37

Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1: 27:39

I go okay, my first job is I'm reaching out to these people. Yeah, my first job is to award the rest of the scholarships, because our deadline is six weeks away and we still have 155 people to award.

Speaker 2: 27:54

So money that's just sitting there, yeah.

Speaker 1: 27:55

Let's go. So I start calling everybody and they're calling back. They're like oh great, blah, blah. Okay, we were waiting, I got to get them rolling. You know everything's going.

Speaker 1: 28:05

And this one person in particular I call her and she is the sweetest woman in the world. She's just so sweet. And she goes, jane, she goes. I'm so glad you called, she goes. I just thought it just wasn't meant to be and I'm like what? And she goes. Yeah, I just, you know, I hadn't heard from anybody and I made some phone calls and never got a call back and I just thought it wasn't meant to be. And blah, blah, and that moment I said, okay, one of the things we're going to work on is you fighting for what is yours? There you go? Amen, that is yours, it's yours, you are awarded it. Nothing should ever be taken away from you like that. If you think that, and just you allowing that thought to even come in and consume you in that way, that's right. She was upset, of course. She was overwhelmed with happiness. Yeah, of course, one of the first things we're going to work on is that confidence. My friend and she was like that would be really awesome.

Speaker 1: 29:03

Oh my gosh, it was something that she could control, but because she had been let down and everything else, she just assumed that it wasn't meant to be and she just didn't need it or whatever, and I was just so upset about that and that's what it looks like as an adult, when you haven't had people in your life as a young person who help you build those skills.

Speaker 2: 29:29

They don't have my accident, and I will say this that one of the shifts I appreciate seeing in public schools right now is more and more public school districts are designing learner profiles, portraits of a graduate, whatever you want to call them and the idea there is that, in addition to all the academic requirements that state testing and state accountability structures mandate, there's a set of competencies right, we've talked about this of skills that kids need in order to thrive as adults and in the workplace. And, when you think about it, in our current systems, and certainly older systems, right, remember back in the day when you got your elementary report cards and there was always that section on behavior? Right, and it was, you know played ball with others it was not ever.

Speaker 2: 30:14

Okay, I'm going to need some evidence that was outstanding, but that's a different conversation. Those everywhere All that doesn't surprise me at all. So but think about it. That early we said your kid is average, below average, above average in playing nice with others, being this being that, but we weren't actually teaching it, no, we weren't actually coaching it, no. So it was like you either have it or you don't, and if you don't, it sucks to be you. We need to work on that. But the company was taking charge of the working on it part, right, we certainly weren't telling parents how to do it, and teachers were focused on reading, writing, arithmetic, as they were dictated to be focused on.

Speaker 2: 30:56

So this is interesting conversation for me to think about. Like you said, this is what it looks like to be an adult who has grown up in a space where the adults around them didn't realize oh, we actually have. We have to be intentional about building that in you, right? Yeah, there's some DNA stuff in there. Of course, you and I are living proof of that, but our brains are so malleable from birth until our mid-80s that anything can be taught, right. So the other piece I wanted to lay on the table, then, as we continue to talk about examples and then ways, right is this idea of one of the kind of, I would say, central things to building confidence and EI in your kids. This is this idea of encouraging autonomy. And I didn't even know, like we didn't even know, we were going to have this conversation today, but I've seen a lot of stuff on different social platforms around this idea of allowing children, in a developmentally appropriate way, to take on responsibility for their environment. Right, because by doing that, we build a sense of independence, a sense of confidence around being able to contribute to the household, et cetera. So we talked a lot about coming from really shitty environments.

Speaker 2: 32:09

One of the things that I know I've done you've said it about yours as well is had to reign myself in because I just want to do all the things for my kids, because I didn't have that and I'd love for them to have it, but knowing better, knowing that if I do all the things, they're not building their skills right. But I've seen some really great videos and it encourages me because I have grandchildren to do this with, even though it's too late to do it for my own children about even as young as like three and four. A kid can help you empty the dishwasher. A kid can put away the juice boxes in the cupboard A kid can. And when you foster that in them, the hard part about it is, as in our homes right now, right, everybody's working, most households are two income, et cetera.

Speaker 2: 32:54

We're all busy, we're all jammed up, we're all all the things, and it takes time. It takes more time to have your four-year-old do this thing or to help with this in this way, but how important it is at that early age to let them start doing it in order to A build a sense of you have a responsibility to this family it's not just that you're here to be weighted on hand and foot and B to build their actual confidence that they're capable of doing it. And I love it. I love this messaging and I still don't see a lot of it, but in the ones that I'm seeing, I'm like hell, yeah, right, like as early as possible, having this contribute you know um.

Speaker 1: 33:33

Are we doing final thoughts?

Speaker 2: 33:35

Not yet. I think we got a few more minutes. Okay, good, remember we started late because somebody on this call couldn't quite figure out her time issue.

Speaker 1: 33:42

We're not going to start with the two.

Speaker 2: 33:44

I'm the problem is me. Annice, I know we got a few more minutes. We're good, let's talk again so we can talk a little bit more about the house.

Speaker 1: 33:52

Well, you know something else that I truly, truly, truly, truly believe in. And this is not always a fan favorite, but I will say this, and I will say that my good friend, Dr Pohl we're not really friends, but I love him. Dr Pohl had the incredible Dr Pohl on that GEO. He is a vet, he's in his 80s, he is amazing, he's from the Netherlands and but he's lived out in I think they're in Michigan, but he has this reality show and he's a large and small animal doctor and it's, you know, mostly farmland out there. So he's pulling calves, he's fixing birds, you know he's doing.

Speaker 1: 34:35

We got a main man he doesn't see any animal and he is so cool. He's just so cool, yeah. But one thing I one I learned how to cut dogs toe nails without them freaking out, even when they do freak out.

Speaker 2: 34:46

So oh yeah, yeah, we talked about that, yeah.

Speaker 1: 34:48

That was pretty amazing. So something else I learned from Dr Pohl not something I learned from him, but he just reiterated it I truly, truly, truly, truly, truly believe that kids have to grow up with at least one pet, because kids that are taking care of animals and they have to take care of them. It's not you get a dog and you end up cleaning all the poop in the dog. You know, do all the things. You really get the kid to love and take care of that animal. You raise good humans. Yeah, Learned responsibility. They learned how to care for an animal. They can learn to care for, you know, another living thing that's not going to outlive them for the most.

Speaker 1: 35:26

Right, yeah, they can grow up with sickness and the death and the morning and all of those things, and so it's not like a tough love kind of thing, but they go through the whole process and so when they become adults, they've been through that process once. Yeah, yeah, and I grew up raising animals. We always had cats and dogs and birds and you know, and we've had plenty of pets die and I was in 4-H and I had the sheep and goats and pigs and all those things and it really taught me a lot. And even now, like the pets are the kids' responsibilities. Chase has her own cat, jenny takes care of the dogs, I take care of the birds, she helps take care of the birds too, and it's this communal thing, but we all love on the animals too and it just it really does. It teaches them responsibilities and how to live in a house with noise. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 36:18

Amen. Well, and I gotta tell you that example is so important. So I love that as a way to build in your kids right by having to take care of another living thing, Right? And I'll say, another little twist to this right is, you know, Kami's our youngest, she's 16 now, and a little twist here is that she is the one of our six kids who truly has grown up in a two-family household. In other words, parents divorced very early, and so you know the back and forth.

Speaker 2: 36:50

Now there are periods of time, when Joe was still in the Navy, that she was just with mom, right so. But you know, in the last eight years no, in the last 10 years, she has no eight years she has been between households, right, and so now that she's in high school, it used to be like every two or three days, now it's a week at a time, and I do catch myself not giving her tours when she's with us, because she's only with us a week at a time, every other week, and so it's almost like we're taking more care of her, if you will, by not asking her, and in the end we're not right. In the end it's not helping, and so we have to really, even more so than ever before, be really intentional about making ourselves have her contribute. Because it's easy in that situation where you have the divorce and she has to go back and forth between homes. And it's easy to not do it because you don't want to make life harder and I think there's no right or wrong answer but because I know lots of people out there are sitting in those same shoes.

Speaker 2: 37:53

What I would encourage is remember that even when your kid has to go back and forth, yes, you should acknowledge that. That is an additional stressor that was created by adults, right, and so what we do do is like if she forgets something, we go get it. Right. We're not going to hold her responsible. If the lifestyle that she lives because of our adult decisions is harder, right, Like we're going to fill in those gaps.

Speaker 2: 38:21

But when she's with us, that it has to be, that we're all part of the household. Everybody contributes, and so she's responsible for cleaning her own room, she does her own laundry, she cleans up herself after dinners and that kind of stuff. But we have to really force that because, on the flip side, we make her lunch every day. Is she fully capable of making her lunch? Of course she is, but it's something we want to do because we're also, in the whole, like we only have her for another year and that's it.

Speaker 2: 38:49

All of our kids are grown right. All of our kids are like adults at that point, and so we do like there's little things that we do because it's like well, this is it, Like we really literally have this opportunity and then from that, from that point forward, we don't. So I think that idea of encouraging autonomy building in early, early, is really important. And then I think and I want to tag onto that really quickly to say another great example that I just saw the other day was this idea of like, from an early age, your child understanding the messaging that everybody contributes, right, that there's no such thing as all the 500 million things mom does, the couple of things dad does, and then you don't do anything, or when you do something.

Speaker 2: 39:30

oh, thank you for helping mom out.

Speaker 2: 39:32

No that's actually your job, right. Yeah, you got to clean up after yourself. That little intricate messaging I think is so important because again with my kids when they were little, I would say, oh my gosh, thank you so much. That's so helpful to mommy that you're doing Boba. But the switch to it's not that you're doing mama favor, it's that you're doing your part, and I just think, wow, yes, that makes so much sense to me, right, like you're doing your part. So I think that's really important.

Speaker 2: 39:57

And then the last thing and then we can do kind of final thoughts is this idea of providing specific feedback and we talk a lot about in schools. We still don't do a really great job university on, but as parents moving beyond, oh good job right to. Specifically, I like how you did blank Right and the great story I heard about this. I have this fantastic colleague friend who does a lot of work around AI and that kind of stuff. She does workshops with schools and companies and stuff and she's just so brilliant.

Speaker 2: 40:30

But in our personal conversations right as we've talked about our experiences, she said something to me a couple of years ago that really struck me and that was that her father has always been very specific with her and her sisters about what they bring to the world that's so important and very like. From a young age she remembers him saying things like oh my gosh, you this, this and this, and he would list the very specific attributes she has that he knows is a value add in the world. And I was so moved by that because I was like I don't think I've ever done that for my own children in that way and so I've started to try and I'm not good at it yet, right. And of course, your adult children are like what's?

Speaker 1: 41:10

up. Why are you being weird?

Speaker 2: 41:12

Right, why are you being weird?

Speaker 1: 41:14

And so I'll take it with a tear in your eye and you're like I just wanted you to know that you're really good at doing your eye makeup Exactly.

Speaker 2: 41:23

And the world is going to need that one day. I wonder if it's on fleek, exactly, but it all, it all seriousness, and I'll take it for you. This is my final thought the reminder that, whether you are listening and you have children who are two or 12, or 22 or 52, it's never too late to come back and parent in these ways. It's never too late to make your relationship better.

Speaker 2: 41:51

Jane, I think you said this last time we talked about parenting. Stuff was and that was like, if you've got to be the parent your children will choose to be with when they don't have to be with you anymore. But if your child is 32, they've been in that space where they didn't have to for a long time. It is never too late, right, to come back and say listen, I really just want to say this to you Like you, are this, this and this Right, and what an asset that is to the people around you, et cetera. But yeah, maybe you have to say look, I know this is corny and I know it's so, not me, but I got to tell you I heard this great podcast, amazing.

Speaker 2: 42:24

The other day Amazing podcast it gave me life and it really made me think about this, and I've never done it before and I want to start doing it, and I'm starting right now, and I just want you to know, blank right, this is what I'm thinking about when I think about you. So that's my final thought. What about you, friend? Yeah.

Speaker 1: 42:40

Yeah, you know, to piggyback on that. I think that that's really good. I mean, I got to tell you I've had to do that with my oldest daughter. You know, I wasn't always the amazing mother I am right now. You know I'm not going to believe that, but go ahead. Well, I wasn't.

Speaker 2: 43:00

Because you've grown and evolved.

Speaker 1: 43:02

Yep, I've grown and evolved and I've become a coach and I coach myself and I've gotten coached by other people and all the fun stuff. And you know, I had to not eat crow but say, look, I made the decisions I made because of I was basing them off of what I knew, yeah, and how I knew how to survive. They were never to, you know, and I never put my kids in danger or anything like that, of course, like it was never to put you in danger, blah, blah, blah. You know, whatever you know there was, there was things in my life and people in my life that I had to to manage, yeah, to survive, you know, and to make sure that you guys had everything that you needed and stuff like that. And so, yeah, I had to send you to your dad so I could do a internship and work 40 hours a week and do that, you know. So was it your my preferred thing to do?

Speaker 1: 43:55

No, and I'm sorry to go there and I'm sorry it wasn't great, but those were decisions I had to make to get to this point, you know. Yeah, so communicating with them and then reiterating you know how you feel about them and and what you enjoy about them most and all of those things right, but also in the now. You know, I, jenny, jenny and I struggle with her room cleanliness. She's very much so a person that's like I'm gonna leave all this trash right here until mom says something about it until it decomposes.

Speaker 1: 44:30

Yeah, and there's, you know, biological growth and everything else. You know. Yeah, the dishes all disappear and then I'm like, let me go. So you know, but it's, it's like our cat and mouse game. But yesterday I noticed that she cleaned up her room. You know, and you know, the first reaction is it's about time, you know, and that's.

Speaker 2: 44:52

I know.

Speaker 1: 44:54

My head, but I let that go and and I was like, wow, I really like what you did with your room. It looks good.

Speaker 2: 45:00

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 45:00

He's like thanks, I'm like no problem, you have a good day. Yeah, I had a good day. Oh, I'm not saying I don't have those thoughts, because I have those thoughts, like the smart aleck me mom, like I thought about time, blah, blah, blah, but it's not gonna get me.

Speaker 1: 45:13

Exactly it's not gonna get any of us anywhere unless they say something smarty pants, and then it's like, okay, game on right, that's just how we run in our house. But I really I was like, no, you need to say something positive, you need to. You need to really congratulate her because you know, yeah, my coach was like and yeah, and she was happy and that's I wanted you know, but she acknowledged and validated and that's all she needed and that's, that's good. It's to you guys. Yeah, those, those little change language is what helps build that emotional intelligence and and the confidence in our kid, exactly.

Speaker 2: 45:50

I love that. So you know, as we kind of continue down this road, where we're, you know, leaning into this parenting area and we're gonna, you know we have a whole list of different things we want to talk about with you guys, in addition to all the other things that we bring to the Table. You know, now more than ever, we would love to hear from you, right, and so in the show notes is our email and you. Obviously, you can DM us on any of our social platforms, etc. But we would love to bring other people's experiences to the table, much like we did with Rose, right, like Rose's story was about, like it was first, how she navigated it and what she learned.

Speaker 2: 46:25

But it's also. This is also a space, for here's what I'm dealing with and I'm really trying to figure it out. Can you help? And we would love to have those conversations as a part of our episodes as we evolve over the next couple of years as well. And so if you have a story, if you're in the middle of something that's just really hard for you, and this is a way that, and you feel like this is a space where we could help, we can keep you anonymous.

Speaker 2: 46:45

You don't have to come in here and say my child's name is this she goes to this school, she's in this grade level. Everybody go find her right. Like. We can keep it anonymous but have a conversation where we can kind of coach around this issue that you're struggling with and how you might get to the other side of it, and we would love to bring some of those into this space. So please make sure that you reach out to us and DM us so that we can send you a link. You can sign up for some time to have a pre conversation with us and Think through and then come on and and record, because it's that conversation I think that helps us learn best. When you're out walking and listening to this podcast or driving, or however you Can do your house Rose, hey Rose, when you're doing that right like, being able to like hear in the moment, real-time Issues and how people talk through and think through them is a really big Value add that we want to bring to the table.

Speaker 1: 47:37

So this is this is your, this is your sign to do it right, yeah and, and I'll leave you with these two things I was, I had two locked and loaded to and you forgot. I'm just like yeah, oh, my god.

Speaker 2: 47:55

So you started this episode not remembering your own name and any episode for getting your Everybody they were good, they were gonna leave now and we're gonna gain some help, cuz Jane needs some help, but she's gonna, here's it, here's the deal.

Speaker 1: 48:12

She's gonna remember them and then when she posts the record, so one, if you write us a letter, we will print it out and burn it in the fire and the fireside chat. So don't worry about us repeating.

Speaker 2: 48:26

I love it. That's perfect.

Speaker 1: 48:27

That's our commitment is we're gonna burn the letter, your email, in the dumpster fire in the fire, boom. Then to now, you guys haven't heard Kyle yet, and you're gonna hear him on the on a future episode.

Speaker 2: 48:40

But this, they'll have heard him by then.

Speaker 1: 48:43

Well, yeah, oh yeah. So you, you will have heard him by now. Let me just tell you something. This man calls me the next morning and I answer the phone and he goes Podcast expert. How can I help you? Oh, so now he's a fucking pre Madonna and wants to know when he's coming back, cuz he had so much fun with us. So now he thinks he's a podcast expert and he just needs to be on every episode.

Speaker 2: 49:07

He okay, so you tell him Slow your roll, yeah, and, and that if he wants to send us a well thought-out paper I'm thinking ten pages, double spaced yeah, and on with all of his ideas so we can decide. If he has good enough ideas, then maybe we'll consider it.

Speaker 1: 49:25

We'll put it in front of the committee. He asked for feedback and I did tell him. I said you got a little lengthy on one of your stories. I said but next time, instead of thinking about things that you want to talk about, you can write them down and bring the list. I like it, I like it. I'm gonna do that.

Speaker 2: 49:40

So we're gonna develop future podcasters too. I love it All. Right, you guys listen. Thank you, thank you for listening. Thank you for following. Make sure you subscribe all the things and can share. That's what we're asking for. Please share, right? You know you're, so. Do stop being jerks exactly. Stop keeping us all to yourself. It's rude, right, selfish, selfish, but we love you. Thank you so much. Peace out guys, bye you.