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100%. Well, now that we've established that you're listening to, dice for Diving with Janice the jerk yeah, the jerk. I did see a couple of things on Instagram yesterday as I'm scrolling through and it was like these little reels. That was like the person with this initial owes you ice cream and it kept doing Jay, I was going to send you every single one of those like you owe me for not doing that and, by the way, your name starts with jay, so maybe you owe yourself that shit, okay I'm just kind of the budget for this shit, so you're gonna buy it for me oh, great great yeah, yeah, welcome target with the older sister hey, um, we have people listening.
Speaker 2:Hi everybody. Hey, thanks for being here. We appreciate it. So we're we're just kind of catching up as we're getting into our conversation today. And you know, I'm finally coming off of my cold and well enough to feel like I can actually have a conversation with you. Because the fact is, I have to be sharp when I'm having conversations with you, because otherwise I get all spun up in your BS. So I'm back, i've'm healthy, I'm good. Um, it's been a crazy week of travel on my end, so, um, that's a little bit of a blur, um. But how about you? I hear I hear, um through the grapevine that you, um failed a really important test this week and, by the way, as your big sister, I'm embarrassed for all of us. You've embarrassed the family, so thank you for that. I'm sure our listeners would love to hear about it. So what happened? What happened with you?
Speaker 1:Oh well, you know, as you said earlier, I didn't study for the test, you know, but actually I was just following in line with Genevieve, you know, because she started it, she failed first first, and it was just I was really embarrassed, and then I was like I got this in the bag and then I failed as well.
Speaker 2:So being the second failure, by the way, really even more sad than being the first failure. I just feel like if you're gonna fail, be first.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so thanks, jenny, they didn't have the opportunity she beat me, so what happened. Well, she is in elementary school.
Speaker 2:I'm well junior middle school, how dare?
Speaker 1:you just corrected myself, jesus. It's all the same building, so to me it doesn't make a difference. That's actually fair. Yeah, okay, let's be real. Okay, so I get a letter from my daughter or no? I'm sorry, this was mailed to the house. I got a letter mailed to the house that genevieve failed a test and I was like whoa, because this is like gold honor roll child. You know like she's. She's on the gold honor roll. She failed her vision test with her glasses on. So I'm guessing that in the two years she's had these glasses, her her eyesight has severely failed her, to the point where she's wow, yeah, yeah. So I was like okay.
Speaker 2:I love, by the way, that our school systems are spending money on stamps.
Speaker 1:Right, do that letter in the mail instead of giving it to my child to deliver to me or perhaps sending you an email oh well, I mean, that would have been cool too, but there was a form I had to have the doctor fill out and return okay, I was doing my apparently duties, wow, wow okay so problem with vision here in california an epidemic, wow, wow, anyways, okay, so I I make an appointment for her and myself and chase, everybody's getting glasses, everybody's getting their eyes checked, whatever.
Speaker 1:And I have noticed that my eyes have been definitely changing. So, you know, we get in there, do all the things? Get in there. He tests my right eye. It's, you know, changed a little bit, whatever.
Speaker 1:He goes to the left eye and he's like all right, and this is the super obvious one, right for, for big block letters. And he was like all right, read the, read the smallest line you can. I said we'll put the letters up and I'll be able to read it. And he's like uh-huh, he's like tell me what they are. And I'm like I see a blank screen. And he whips around and he looks at the wall, he looks at me with this big thing on my face and he was like all right, stop joking around. And I was like I'm serious, there is nothing but a blank. And he was like hold on. So he like moves a bunch of stuff, blah, blah.
Speaker 1:All right, how about now? All right, how about now, there is just a blank square. And he was like scared and he goes are you diabetic? And I'm like, oh my God, no, oh my God, and he's like this isn't good. He was like this isn't good and he goes have you noticed, like where you can't see, and I was like actually, yes, like parts of the screen will, like I won't see the letters anymore and stuff like that. And he was like this is a problem. So he fixes it with, you know, turns the dial to I'm a hundred years old Right In this time.
Speaker 1:That's it Like, and he's like there's a dramatic change in that eye. He's like okay, so this is, this is now you need to come in for a medical appointment.
Speaker 1:He was like your regular insurance, you need to get dilated, you need to do all these things. He goes, cause I'm I'm seriously worried about that eye. He goes, there shouldn't be that big of a change. And I was like, well, fuck, you know. Yeah, one, this explains a lot. You know headaches, everything, everything you know. And then two, damn it, you know like, okay, great, all right, well, let's go, let's go get old let's what our listeners want to know most.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah is. Will you or will you not have to wear an eye patch for the?
Speaker 1:rest of your life.
Speaker 2:I will not at this point in time as far as I want to start calling you matey, and so I'm gonna need to practice bench would be more appropriate, you know which is too obvious too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, bench is way too obvious, you're right in all seriousness.
Speaker 2:Um, I hope it's okay. And you know, honestly, though I was now, here's the thing this could be. This could be the first of many it's not the first. We've talked about others but hereditary things we have in common. Because I wasn't my right eye. I think it was my right eye that I had a cataract, in that they've been tracking for years. That led to me having, you know, lasik and cataract surgery and all the things last fall, and that every eye doctor I saw kept saying what happened to you? Like did you get injured? Did you like nobody your age has a cataract? Like it doesn't make any sense to us. And I was like, well, no, I mean, I've never. Not that I can remember right.
Speaker 1:Not that I see her in the sun or anything like that, you know like.
Speaker 2:So my point is that, like, if it's cataract, then maybe it's because of our father.
Speaker 1:Perfect person to blame. He's not here to defend himself. Exactly.
Speaker 2:I always like blaming the people who can't defend themselves, so all right, well, keep us posted on your. Yeah On your.
Speaker 1:Okay, I show up with an eye patch, I mean my. My follow-up is not until mid April, so and I'll have new glasses by then and stuff and I'll be able to see on the regular. But he definitely wants to find out what the hell's going on with me.
Speaker 2:You got to figure out what's behind that. That's crazy.
Speaker 1:Crazy, crazy. Yeah, all right.
Speaker 2:Well, um so today. So today, guys, we are, um, you know, today we're actually going to talk about this idea of um giving and receiving. I, like you, just saw us model giving each other shit and then receiving it right, like it's a giving, and receiving kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Um, and so the reason we it came up because, uh, jane and I were talking about I just had a um like a wellness check with my wellness clients that I serve and one of the women is like she's been just like kicking butt and taking names for like three months straight. Um has been with me for a couple of years but finally kind of found her rhythm and her cadence and all the things into everything Like life is just really great in her space right now. But she's having some, she was having some reflections and one of the things she was talking about is how long she went, how long she avoided, like me and our check-ins and getting support from our group, et cetera, because she wasn't doing well right on the wellness front and how the worse she did, the more internal she turned right. So she was and she said something just that just made me go oh my God, that's so profound. And it was like it's crazy how easy it is to turn into ourselves when we're going through times of, you know, stress or just duress or whatever, and fold ourselves into that negativity versus opening ourselves up to support and encouragement.
Speaker 2:And so, as I was sharing that with you, jane.
Speaker 2:You had this big like epiphany about the coaching piece you do with folks around, this idea of giving and receiving. So we're like, oh my gosh, this is what we want to talk about, because we want to really get into it a little bit, because we know especially again, anybody who's listening this is going to be true, but it's heightened for women in general. But very much this idea about like we do tend to do exactly that right, during times of stress and duress, et cetera. Even today, when there's such a culture of women supporting women and women lifting each other up, we tend to be the first to, when something goes wrong, turn inwards and not want to stress out the people around us by sharing it and God forbid, getting some support. So I want to kind of tee us up with that and then just turn to you because I'm super curious about some of the coaching you've done around this and kind of where you see as the starting point for our conversation and kind of where, you see, as the starting point for our conversation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, yeah I did. I was just like, oh wait, you know I got stuff on this, because it's something that I really coach on all the time and it comes up in different ways and I was, as you were, kind of, you know, delivering that, that intro. I was thinking about a way that it actually gets in the way of like personal relationships too. I have a friend that I was actually having a conversation with about behaviors or or, or our personal, what we feel is boundaries, but we, we label it our personal boundaries for ourselves. But it's really a level of protection and and we label it different ways.
Speaker 1:But the whole giving and receiving aspect is there's a science to it and I had to learn this because I was a poster child for not being able to, you know, receive. It's really hard for people and this actually really changed the way that my mindset was at the time. You know when, when you grow up in an environment or you are, um, you know, subject to an environment where you're giving all the time and not so much receiving, it's almost like that's how it should be. Right, I'm the one that's of sound mind, I'm the one that's um, that can get it done. I'm the one that's of sound mind, I'm the one that's um, that can get it done. I'm the one that's dedicated enough. So I'm just going to give, give, give, give, give to the people that are incapable of doing those things, so I can try to help them, right.
Speaker 1:But in all actuality, is it really helping them? Sometimes, if they're willing to receive it, it's a lot of times they're not willing to receive it, so it just falls on deaf ears, and then we get upset because they're not listening, and I gave them the answers, and you know all these things. But we have to think about it Like they're in the same boat that we are. That's right, they're in the same freaking boat. So how do they know how to receive that? Yeah, cause nine times out of 10, they don't know how to receive. So now, now we have this vicious cycle going on of like I'm always trying to help them, they don't do it, blah, blah, blah. And then that person's trying to help me and and I'm like they're, you know, they don't know how to take the help, and so it's this vicious cycle and we turn inward because we think everybody's against us, or they just don't get it, you know, when, in all actuality, we're doing the same thing to each other over and over and over again.
Speaker 1:So, and how this all started in my brain and how I started talking about it was I worked. I was working as a coach, I was um. I had a um, a friend, you know, a colleague, um Kirk. We were like two peas in a pod. He would start singing the song and I would end the verse Like we were the annoying people in the office, right, like we were silly. We always had fun together. Nothing was ever super crazy, you know, and we needed that from each other. And one day he was like wow, you know. Wow, jane, you look really great today. You know, that's a cool outfit. Blah, blah, blah. And I was just like, oh, this old thing. Blah, blah, blah, you know.
Speaker 2:Like it's cool.
Speaker 1:You know, all right, yeah, didn't say thank you, Didn't none of that. And he was like are you serious right now? I'm like what? And he was like you can't take a compliment to save your freaking life. What do you mean, you know? And he's like seriously, he goes. You can't take a compliment to save your life. He goes.
Speaker 1:I compliment you every freaking day and all you do is always tell me what the worst part of it is, or you lay it down. And he was like I'm trying to give you a compliment. And he was like and you, just you, a compliment. And he was like and you, just you're, you're like blocking it right. And I was like, wow, I go. I never really thought about it that way. He's like yeah, he goes. How do you think it makes me feel he goes? You're just swatting down my compliments every day, you know? And? And? So I was like, oh my gosh, I never even really thought about that either. Yeah, and and just that week, my boss had read this new book, you know, to him at that time. And he's like I want everybody to read it and it was right on time.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, and this book is called the go giver and it's it's written by Bob Berg and John David Mann and it's a. It's a. It's's like a self help business book. You know it's professional development, but it applied to life so much that I, just I fell in love with the book. And I'm not a big reader we've talked about this. It has to be intriguing and capture my ADD brain and I just I read the thing very quickly.
Speaker 1:It's only 160 pages, but there was this special thing in there called the five laws of stratosphere, stratospheric, um, success, and we'll talk about that. But, um, really the book is. It's a sales book. It's teaching you how to be like a good salesperson, but really it's about the laws of receptivity. You can give, you can give and give and give, but you have to be able to receive at the same time. But this is this cycle that we're all in is like where are the givers, where are the servers? Oh, you don't need to give me that, I'll give you the shirt off my back and not ask for any protection or a blanket or anything else, you know.
Speaker 1:And so this book really, just the way it was laid out, it's a business story. It's about a sales guy and he goes through this journey and he meets this mentor and he's like teaching him all these lessons. But there's the five laws of stratospheric success which we can cover. But it's a really good book and it really helped me realize the effect, the ripple effect that not accepting compliments or receiving does to the other person. You know that is doing the giving. It blocks their channel of receptivity if they get that negative response back, you know. And so that's kind of the premise of the of the whole book and how to work through it.
Speaker 2:You know I it's so interesting, right? Because I think that first off now I want to go grab it, not just I mean for this conversation, but also for you know, fundamentally what I do in my day job is build relationships with other organizations and, you know, enter into partnerships, and so I'm super curious about the implications on both of those fronts. But as I listening to you talk and as I was listening to this wellness client talk earlier, the thing that kind of struck me was you know, again, we typically we tend to do this as women. I love this idea that, like we can't be, we can't excel at giving if we're not also going to be open to receiving. I love the idea that, like you know, so you can only do so much without doing the other. And it really feeds into the school of thought that I have around, like this idea of wellness, right, Because oftentimes when I'm talking with women about wellness, it's really about listen.
Speaker 2:I know your instinct is to take care of all the things and all the people and imagine how much more you could do that, how much better you could be at that, if you were taking care of yourself, right that, if you had clarity of mind if you had energy, if you had strength, et cetera.
Speaker 2:And when you run yourself ragged, so to speak, taking care of everybody else, then you are likely to at some point just collapse. And then what are all those people going to do? And again, that it's not to like fuel the idea that you should be taking care of everybody else, but rather meet you in your space. If that's a space you're in, I'm not going to try and talk you out of it. I'm going to say how can you be better at it? Right, and that gets to the core of taking care of yourself. But it made me think about, like, okay, what is it about us? How are we wired in that way? And so, when I went and did some digging, one of the things that I looked at was this idea of vulnerability. Right, I was going to say that, Right.
Speaker 2:That's like we have a hard time with that. We have a hard time opening ourselves up, because it does make us more vulnerable and, frankly, as the, as the female species, gender in this species, by pure evolutionary standards, right, we are I'm going to use this word. Nobody actually, no, everybody scream at me. That way we get some comments on our post. Yeah, please, we are physically weaker, right, not universally, not every woman is physically weaker than a man, et cetera, but fundamentally in our design, women typically have to work hard to actually be stronger than men. Right, we actually have to build that in ourselves.
Speaker 2:It's not natural, and so I was curious about like, okay, so it makes sense then, that if that's the case from an evolutionary standpoint, then the idea of being vulnerable would be even more challenging, because we're already vulnerable on some level, right, just because of evolution.
Speaker 2:So I went back and I was doing some digging and one of the things that I found that I thought was really interesting about this idea of vulnerability is that is how much our childhood experiences impact our capacity to be vulnerable, and so shocker of all shockers, if you're, if you have a childhood where there's lots of trust and a sense of safety, it makes it easier to be vulnerable later, right, because you trust that people are going to be not take advantage of you if you're vulnerable. Likewise, if you have insecure attachments if there is no, you know, if there's a lack of trust, if you're, you know, if your safety is at risk on a regular, then it's going to make it tougher, right? Obviously, you're going to close in on yourself more. So I, just, because of our larger conversation that we tend to have, I just thought, oh my God, one more thing. Right, that goes back to those childhood experiences.
Speaker 1:Well, not only that, but it goes back to primal instinct, if you really think about it. Let's boil it down. We're animals, right? And before we can communicate and tell each other what's wrong and get the help that we need and everything else, let's go to National Geographic. Right? There's a herd of wildebeests, there's a there's a injured wildebeest. What do they do? They leave that wildebeest because they don't want the rest of the crowd to get attracted by the lions or whoever right, and so that wildebeest will go wander alone, knowing that it's going to get attacked you know, because it's protecting the rest of the, the herd, we as humans.
Speaker 1:Vulnerability is is, is weakness right? We don't want to show that and so we take it away. Oh, no, I'm good, I do this because I just love to, and blah, blah, blah or whatever. We say yeah, but most people that give like that need in in return. They need that. That thank you is their repayment, that, whatever it is, whatever it is in their head.
Speaker 1:And if they show that weakness, that they need something from the other person, that's vulnerability, it's uncomfortableness. They're going to see me as weak. They're not going to see me as this prideful, proud person that knows, got their shit together and everything else, and they're not going to leave me behind If I something from them. I am in that inner circle where I don't need anything and that's where we, I think, you know, like ego and everything goes in, like no, no, no, I'm in the inner circle, I'm not done on the outer circle. This is just a it's like a subconscious, you know level of pecking order that we go into, right, and it's just very, it's very primal, you know, when it comes down to it, and we don't realize that, we don't stop and think about how primal our actions are and why they are. We're the only species that understand psychology and that are smart enough, or or can be an intelligent enough, to figure this out. You know, to help each other out, and this I mean hello. That's why we do this podcast.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly, exactly. We finally revealed. That's why now everybody knows 36, 37 episodes into it. Well, and I think that's tied to this idea of vulnerability and you kind of touched on this a little bit, so I'll call it out in kind of more overtly and that is that, you know, kind of tied to all of that is also this fear of rejection, right, fear of like.
Speaker 2:When we say we're struggling, then we're, you know, people reject us.
Speaker 2:We're worried that we'll be seen as weak. We're worried that, right, that have come to rely on us, we'll, you know, we'll question us and we'll question whether or not they should, you know, bring us into their kind of sphere of support, et cetera, et cetera. And I, you know, and we've said it a million times, but we can't overstate it we do also just have this internal negative voice, right, that's there, right, and it is, it is the kind of natural state of things, at least it feels like it's the natural state of things. And so to overshadow it or to shut it down, we have to be really intentional, right, because we get those excuse me, those messages from all around us, and so we have to be really intentional, and women are really quick to blame themselves for problems, rather than looking at external factors that could be contributing to why they are experiencing failure or experiencing you know, some kind of negative emotional reaction that makes them unable, right to do all the things that they want to do.
Speaker 1:Right. Well, it's that aspect of I come second. You know, I come second because my kids come first and most great parents, male or female, have thought, you know, like everything's, everything's for them. They didn't ask to be here. You know, um, we're doing this right.
Speaker 1:I mean, I had that mentality for a long time, you know, I was just going to do whatever I needed to do, um, because my kids didn't ask for this crap that we're going through, right, but at the same time, there's that level of pride where I, yeah, I am a single mom and I can do it by myself and all those things. I struggle, but it is what it is, right, I don't need anything. I've got everything that I need here. You know, I have a roof over my head, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 1:Meanwhile, things are falling apart, you know like, but it's, it's somewhat together and we're just so programmed to to survive in different ways, and and again that that deep seated childhood stuff, you know, in the aspect of needing to survive, we're just going to do what we need to do and, um, and because I have a roof over my head, I should be grateful, right, cause we're reminded of the things that we should be grateful for as well, which, yeah, yeah, we should be grateful. Things could be worse, right, but if you're always in that mindset, when are you ever going to get out of it? That's right, you know.
Speaker 2:No, I think that's such a good point. I love that idea of like. You know, like getting stuck in the mindset of things can always be worse and to your point, things can always be worse and to your point, they can always be worse. That doesn't mean that you should be ashamed of wanting it to be better.
Speaker 2:Right, and right oh yeah, like there's a balance of gratitude, being grateful for what you have, yes, but not letting that kind of be the thing that stops you from saying, but I still aspire to this, whatever this is.
Speaker 1:Right, right. And you know, and and maybe even making comments of, I'm always growing. Well, when are you going to stop growing? Never, you know. Never, never, never.
Speaker 1:So well, let's get into some of these, the five laws of strategy. Okay. So let's talk about the first one, the law of value. And it says your true worth is determined by how much more you give in value than you take in payment. Say that again your true worth is determined by how much you give in value than you take in payment.
Speaker 1:I know so many people that lead by this. Oh my God, like, oh, but I gave them all this stuff. Yeah, I only charged them. You know, um, let let's just go to this. So you know, business coaching. This is a prime example of you know oh well, if my prices are cheap, they'll pick me. Oh my gosh, yep, okay, yeah, you can be, you can be competitive with your pricing, but are you really charging what you're worth? That's right. Yep, know that. Your gut can't tell you that stuff. You actually have to do the math and I'm actually working with a client right now.
Speaker 1:Small business owner in LA only has one client. I was like let me help you expand your client base If you lose that one client, you're done. You know he's like, I know I'm like, let me help you expand your client base. If you lose that one client, you're done. You know he's like, I know I'm like, okay, let me help you. So we've been working on this and one of the first things we worked on was his pricing, and he was charging like 40 bucks an hour to have two employees come and do cleaning. It's a cleaning service.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:I go how much do you pay them per hour? He goes $20 a piece. I said so you're charging exactly what you're paying, but less than, because you don't, you're not counting taxes, not counting any of that stuff, and are you paying you? And he's like, well, no, I'm not doing the work, I'm like all right, timeout, timeout. We went from charging $40 an hour to what he wants, the way he wants his business to look. It needs to be like $300 per hour. He was like oh my God. I said what you're giving is much more in value than what you're receiving. You know you're giving it away. So, and how is that affecting your business? Oh, it's affecting it in these multitude of ways. Okay, so just by having that conversation he was like wait a minute, I go. You're, you're, whatever you're giving is is valuable and it's worth something you need to charge appropriately, and that's that's like. That's the bare bones. You could.
Speaker 2:You could ad lib that into anything, but look at it again, because I, when you said it, I actually had an additional thought, so say it.
Speaker 1:So the the law of value is your true worth is determined by how much more you give in value than you take in payment.
Speaker 2:So the business sense of that makes perfect sense, what you just described. But the other thought that I had, in terms of what we're talking about too, is this idea that you know, oftentimes we judge our value by how much money we have in the bank, how many things that we have in our life. All this stuff versus what that's suggesting is no, no, it's how you show up to the world, is your determination of value, not the monetary piece of it. So you can. There's so many different ways to look at it. Right, right, right, all right, I love it.
Speaker 1:What's the second one? Law of compensation. So again, we're going back to that. So your income is determined by how many people you serve and how well you serve them Okay, so whatever that compensation is right. But if your income is determined by how many people you serve and how well you serve them, what are you doing to make that? What is your? How do you differentiate from your competition? How are you differentiating from the people around you? How many people are you serving and in what way? Are you just talking to people or are you actually changing their trajectory of how they're thinking and you know and how you're giving? Are you you know? I mean, I'm just going to take it all back to biblical times. You know, you teach a man, you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, you teach him how to fish for life, right? So what is it that you're doing, right, is it?
Speaker 2:that you're doing Right. So, and then the non kind of business side of that makes me. What I'm thinking about is like one of the struggles that I personally have is and you and I this is true for both of us, right, we tend to be that woman in our world that other people men and women, but again lots of women especially turn to for support, emotional support, help in times of stress, aid, you know, et cetera. And there are times where I think to myself, like I haven't talked with so-and-so in so long. I wonder if she's okay, but my bandwidth, right, like my ability to actually check it, and this is just personal stuff, not business oriented, like just personal stuff, and and and what you're making me think about is like, okay, okay, you really can't be everything to everyone, right?
Speaker 2:So if you, you know, if you spread yourself so thin that really all you're doing is, you know, hey, how are you, and you know, saying a few words of platitude and that's the best you've got, because I don't like this isn't a question to be answered right now, but it makes me wonder, like like, on one hand, I can't possibly like not pick up the phone or not respond to a text or not, whatever. But on the other hand, yeah, like when you're that person constantly in people's worlds and, by the way, I am deeply grateful for that role and I appreciate the fact that I have a skillset and a persona that draws people in that way but at some point it's like am I even helping people if it's so superficial because I can't possibly commit the time right To help people in a more deep way?
Speaker 1:Anyway, well, that's, I mean that's, that's a whole nother you know side of the perspective of it, and you're 100% correct. Like is the attention that I'm giving this person, the value that I'm giving them? Is it at full value? Or am I just like motions? Cause, I'm going to be honest, there's days just going through the motions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's true for all of us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. I'm just going through the motions, sorry that I'm glazing over and I'm probably thinking about something else, but those are the times where you need to really think this is my, this is my boundary, like I can tell I'm drifting, I'm not giving them the a hundred percent that I normally would. This is going to be a change in my character and you know so. You got to think about those things. And that's when you go and you say I really, I really want to be there for you, but this particular time in my life, like this very moment, is I'm not here. So can we, can we, can we sit down in a couple of days? Let me like get through this or just be honest, like shit.
Speaker 2:And that's hard, right. Oh my God, when somebody needs you, it is really hard to not be honest, or to be honest rather and say I can't, like I don't have it. I just don't have it right now, right, so, yeah, that's you know, and it's funny because here's a really quick example. But this is an example of when I was honest, right Like this past week I was traveling, so I was in the DC, virginia area from Friday a week ago until today.
Speaker 2:When did I fly home? I flew home Tuesday night, only to turn back around and be at the airport at 7am on Wednesday to go to Nevada and be there for the rest of the week. And so Joe picked me up Tuesday night from the airport God bless him and he like immediately started like telling me about all the stuff he has going on at work. And he's just like and he and he was so sweet because he finally like and I am, you know, more than anything, I was sick, like I was in the middle of this cold and it was just kicking my ass and I was like it's all I can do to like be awake right now and and at one point he finally like looked over at me in the car and he kind of puts his hand on my leg and he was like okay, babe, how are you Right?
Speaker 2:Like how are you? And I was like was like he's, like you were just in like some crazy meetings and I know it was tense and intense and you know all the things like how did it all go, boa? And I was like, oh my god, thank you for asking. And because you asked, I can tell you I can't even talk about it right now, like I don't have it in me right, talk about it. So ask me again in like two days. And so, when I got back from Nevada and was starting to come out of this cold a little bit, that's when I could be like oh. And then, yes, when I was in DC on Monday, blah, blah, blah, blah blah. But in that moment, right, he created a space for me to be able to say I literally can't even talk about it right now.
Speaker 1:But that's perfect. And he took your social cue.
Speaker 2:He did, he just sat there and he was like, oh, hold on, but honestly in that case. And then let's go on to number three. He, we both kind of got what we needed, because he just needed to say stuff out loud, because I had to go off on my days, he didn't even need me to like respond or probe and and so. And then likewise, he could be okay with me, like being like okay, I can't. And he was good, Like all right.
Speaker 1:Well, he exerted the energy that had been pent up for a couple of days without you around. You know I love Joe and his stories and stuff like that. He was ready. He was ready, he had it All right. So number three, the law of influence. Okay, so your influence is determined by how abundantly you place other people's interests first.
Speaker 2:Interesting.
Speaker 1:Okay, so your influence is determined by how abundantly you place other people's interests first.
Speaker 2:Okay, see, now that's interesting because I want to hear you talk about it, obviously from the business perspective, but from a social perspective. Think about the way we use the word influencer. Now, right, we are at that level, right, when you look at influencers, even though in most cases they're trying to sell you something or, or, you know, get you to think a certain way, ie influencer it is through tapping into what they think you need and then that.
Speaker 1:but let's think about that. Let's think about that for a moment. Okay, really, the interest of the influencer or the audience? Ah, so the influencer is paying more attention to what the audience wants. How more influential do you think you'll be?
Speaker 1:Exactly Ding ding, ding ding ding, exactly she motherfuckers person that you're working with, right, and so it's all about their agenda. And this is a total coaching thing, right? We don't have I don't know what's best for you, janice, but you do and if I talk about the things that interest you and all those things, then we'll get somewhere that's actually going to you make some movement versus what I feel that you need, exactly so so you're kind of like leading.
Speaker 2:it's like you're leading me to reveal what I know that you need, Exactly so. So you're kind of like leading. It's like you're leading me to reveal what I know, but I don't realize. I know, yes.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's all your idea.
Speaker 2:It's.
Speaker 1:manipulation is what it is it's getting you to see your own shit.
Speaker 2:I mean, come on whatever, but anyway, that's cool, that's interesting Right To think about both sides of that and and so, yeah, all right, we got to ponder that a little bit more.
Speaker 1:All right. What's number four? All right, number four the law of authenticity. The most valuable gift you have to offer is yourself.
Speaker 2:A fricking men.
Speaker 1:That's it. You don't have to be a certain way, you don't. People want people. People want to know people that are different, that aren't like everyone else. Prime example, I am not your average run-of-the-mill woman. I have whatever fucking hair, teal, tattoos everywhere. I wear funky clothes, sometimes most of the time stuff like that. And Wednesday night I'm part of a women's networking group and we had one of our monthly meetups and I knew no one except for like two people. And those two people, one I know very well and the other person I saw at the last meetup two months ago, when the last time I went. Yeah, and so I'm kind of socially awkward when it comes to stuff like that.
Speaker 1:When it comes to me not knowing somebody, I'm not happy. I know I'm not the person that's in your face like, oh my god, I'm Jane, nice to meet you, blah, blah. You know I'm, know I'm not the person that's in your face Like, oh my God, I'm Jane, nice to meet you, blah, blah. You know I'm like, I'm not that person. I'm the observer. You have to remember I survived my childhood, so I would, I would watch, I observe, I see body language, I see, I hear conversations that I don't want to be a part of, you know, and then conversations that, okay, I could, I could get into that, whatever, but my mode normally, and this and this goes all the way to my, the, the birthday horoscope book that I have, my birthday is the birthday of the standout, the person that doesn't want to be in the spotlight but is automatically drug into it.
Speaker 1:Every single time I go, I sit at a table by myself. There's seven other chairs within two minutes. They were full. There's seven other chairs within two minutes. They were full. I wasn't even making eye contact with anybody. This one, this one lady, comes over, hillary, and I met her at the last party, but she didn't remember meeting me. She introduced herself to me and I'm Jane. I met you last time. She's like, oh, my God, I forgot. She's like, yeah, she goes. I looked over because I was like, what brought you over here? You know little cronies. Like it was just, it was weird, they all migrated over. She's like you just looked like a rock, like I just needed to go talk to you.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'm the anchor of the situation.
Speaker 1:Okay, she goes. It just felt safe, it just felt like we could go over there and be ourselves. You know, we authentic, you're authentic, let's go. And I had my hair like this, but I wrapped it in a way that I had a big bow, my hair was a bow on top of my head and she's like and I saw the fucking bow and I was like I have to come over here and talk to you. Yep, none of those were. Things were done intentionally to get attention. But are you sure?
Speaker 2:let's dig into that. When you were making that bow, no, not even a little.
Speaker 1:It was really fucking cute.
Speaker 2:You're like in the mirror going. I fucking dare you not.
Speaker 1:No, I don't even need a mirror. That's how I do these bows. And they were like how did you do that? I'm like, oh, hold on, I start taking my hair down. They're like no, no, no, you're going to ruin it. I'm like, watch me. 30 seconds later, I had another bow. They were like that's amazing, oh my. God I hair wowed them, you know.
Speaker 2:So, but let's go back to that. I want our listeners to be very clear that hair wowing is a thing. You heard it here first. It's going to be trademarked, so don't try and steal it. Hair wow, it's a thing. Oh my God, that's a whole different YouTube channel. Hashtag, hair wow, hashtag, how to hair, wow Anywho. But yes, I love that.
Speaker 2:But I love that, like, just you have this aura back to your fourth rule of authenticity, right, and I do think that, like, again, it ties into what we were talking about earlier, because I think that part of the way that we can shift right from being these people who are only giving and never receiving is by normalizing right, normalizing the idea of being vulnerable, normalizing it and and identifying it as a strength versus a weakness. Right, turning the kind of turning the narrative a little bit away. I was on a work call on Friday and we were. We have these like monthly morning chats and one of my colleagues brings in, like somebody who's not from our industry right to just introduce us to different thinking, and the woman was talking about this idea of narrative right and the power of narrative right now, and so this idea of like, how we shift the narrative. The narrative will be whatever we say it's going to be, but if we're not committed to it and we don't keep reiterating it, then, just like a lot of things right, we fall back into old patterns.
Speaker 2:And so I love this idea of, like, using authenticity right, showing up as your authentic self, as a way to shift the narrative and saying, you know, yeah, like you said, like today I can't give you everything, right, because I don't have it to give. That's where I am from an authentic standpoint. But let's chat again in three days, or call me again next week, or you know what, or and or call our joint friend so-and-so, because she might have it to give right now and I don't. And if you need it right now, then right, like so, anyway, reframing it right and kind of reframing that narrative, I think could be a really important part All right, what's number five?
Speaker 1:All right, number five the law of receptivity. The key to effective giving is to stay open to receiving, and it's a full circle, right? And? And I was having a chat with one of my very good friends and we were talking about like relationships and and you know our, our current mindsets on relationships, right, and she and I were kind of in the same spot where we're just like we don't need a relationship. We don't, you know, and and we don't want that other person to have to answer to like where are you? And checking in, and blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 1:But the companionship is, is what we miss, you know? And and she was like, but that's my superpower. And she was like, and I don't, like, I don't want to give it up, because what if I get hurt again? And blah, blah, blah. And I was just like I get that, I get that, but at the same time, you're leaving yourself. You're, you're, you're not allowing yourself that vulnerability, that you need to learn that not everybody's like that.
Speaker 1:A and b like that. Yeah, that's a boundary for yourself. You're not going to cross it. So you're never going to have a relationship or open yourself up to any type of of of companionship or anything else ever again, because you want this one thing to happen. How does that make sense? Exactly? How does that make sense? Like you have to have that hope and that and that aspect of you. Know I need to be vulnerable to figure out where what's best for me, you know, if I don't open myself up to that and be authentic in the aspect of yeah, I'm a, I'm a, I need to be strong and I need to be all these things, but you have this tough exterior, but you also have to have that gushy part to be able to balance yourself out, right, and so we were just talking about that. But that's this also because she's also a big giver, like she's there for people's support, security, all of those things. But don't give it to me and I'm like this what are you doing? Why?
Speaker 2:It's true, it's true, and we do, it's our default, right. And again, a really superficial way of thinking about that is and I think I've still I've said this, told this story before Like you know, even when I, you know, we have house guests, right, and we have, or we have people over for get togethers or whatever. And it was my cousin several years ago who had come to stay with us for the holidays and was like hey, you want me to do this? Just hey, every time I'd be like no, no, no, you relax. No, no, no, you got, I got it, you know.
Speaker 2:And he finally looked at me and he was like you understand that when you let people help, you're demonstrating value for them? Right, idea, right, that when we always are on the on the giver side and never on the receiver and, by the way, I really value that we're using the word receiving, because I think that the word taking, which is a sentiment we usually use, has that negative thing built into it. Right, yeah, Exactly. And so that was really for me, a moment for me to go. Oh my gosh, I never thought about that, because my intention is really pure. My intention is like relax, I want you to have fun. I don't want you to worry. Relax, I want you to have fun. I don't want you to worry, and it didn't occur to me for a second that I was, you know, you know, low key, possibly giving off the message of no, no, no you, I, you know you don't have value, you don't need that.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that's the exact point that my friend made about me not receiving compliments you know that and down his value and it makes them feel like you don't value that relationship that you have with them. And and back to the relationship aspect, is you know this this person is is one of my best friends and one of the people that I can call bawling my eyes out and not and be vulnerable, right, and they love that I'm vulnerable with them, but they can't be like. They told me oh well, you know, the other day, you know I was feeling really bad and stuff like that, and you, my mom and my sister I can't talk to when I'm feeling like that, because I get the most vulnerable with you guys. Oh wow, and I'm like but that's what you need to do.
Speaker 2:That's right. That's right. That's hard Because we're scared of it, right, like we're scared, we're just. It's kind of almost like being scared of the unknown, right, we're scared of, if I'm that open, what could, and it's not, it's not about me, like I don't even know what I might find if I'm that open right like I'm scared of what I might find.
Speaker 1:So I think well and, and I think too, is like their, their last relationship, the person you know, they, they were vulnerable, what they feel like, their vulnerable level was with that person and they took great advantage of it, but they weren't receiving anything from that person. So it's like it's different, it's like it's not even the same compared to apples and oranges. Exactly and I think that's where our brain goes.
Speaker 2:That's where our brain goes, and I think it's why these conversations are so important, right, and so I and it's my hope that, like, people who are listening are like connecting on some of the pieces and being able to like see yourselves in it, right, and and then kind of take some, some action as a result of something, right, not every single thing is going to resonate with you, but something is going to make you see yourself.
Speaker 2:And I will say, like I was thinking about like kind of getting to kind of final thoughts here, right, and one of the strategies, if you will, that I think that we can use to help foster this in each other is celebrating it when we see it right.
Speaker 2:So when we see somebody being them out, their authentic selves, like the people who gravitated toward you the other night and being able to say it that way, that's celebrating you, showing your authentic self, and so celebrating in others, but also like being really honest about where our mindset is, because as much as we're sitting here talking about how we really need to build this up, especially in other women, but in other people in general, and we need to foster it and we need to stop thinking about, you know, when we're when we're putting our real selves out there, or showing a weakness, that we see it as a weakness or what have you, or that it's a negative thing to have a weakness right, we all have them. But there are times like I mean, if I'm not if, since I'm always being trying to be really honest there are definitely times where I will look at someone and be like, oh my God, suck it the fuck up, like you know, because I feel like there are also those people in our world who it's almost okay.
Speaker 2:This, this is just being super authentic, right, it's almost like overboard, the opposite end of the spectrum, and so then, I find myself wondering like are you doing that on purpose, for attention, are you?
Speaker 2:which is horrible, because maybe they are, but maybe they're not right and so maybe they've actually mastered uh-huh yeah, maybe, or they've mastered the ability to like put it all out there all the time, and that makes me super uncomfortable because it's like, okay, I, I can't.
Speaker 2:Also, I can't just be like a wallowing puddle of self-pity either, right, like, where is the, where is the balance where you show up as your authentic self, um, but aren't wallowing in a puddle of self-pity, right so, and I don't know the answer to that, by the way, that's why I'm keeping it as a final thought, so I can be like a, uh, good luck with that everybody, but, but more, just like, in all honesty, right, like, that's out there, good luck, sorry, um, but but that's another space you might see yourself in, right, you might see yourself as that person.
Speaker 2:So how do you? But that's another space you might see yourself in, right, you might see yourself as that person. So how do you, if that's the space that you're in, how do you start to create some balance where you can see beyond the things that are hard and recognizing yourself, the things that you're capable of, to help start kind of changing that, shifting that? You know, and I know that's really vague, but it's just, it's coming out as messy as it is in my head, so you're welcome.
Speaker 1:Well, I just I chalk that up to, um, you know, being in the aspect of self-awareness. Um, there's, there's a lot of aspects. You know we've we've also talked about um, the tool I use, the energy leadership index. You know, like what energy do you resonate in? You know there's, there's people where, um, you know it's, it's the aspect of they're just stuck in that mindset and so, with them expressing where they're at, that's our opportunity as authentic. You know, people that are giving and receiving and all of those things.
Speaker 1:To be honest with them, it really sounds like you're stuck in this mindset, or it really sounds like you know, is it really that bad? Right, you know what? What? How does this affect you? You know, open, asking those open ended questions where they actually had to think about their answer and not just say yes or no to get them to see hmm or hear themselves say something. Because he told me that the other day they were like just sitting with you and the way that you ask me questions I'm able to process my thoughts by talking to you. Yeah, you don't ask me questions that you already know the answer to you really make me think about it.
Speaker 1:And I go well, that's my job, that's professional development without sitting you down and going here. You need this workshop.
Speaker 2:Here's the thing to learn. Yeah, here's the thing to learn. Yeah, here's the thing to learn.
Speaker 1:Where are you coming from? What did you feel? How did you? You know, how did you come overcome that? What did you learn from it? Where are you? What are you changing now? You know what came up for you during that time Thoughts, feelings, actions. You know, because the the big disservice that we do to each other is tell each other how we should feel.
Speaker 2:That's right. That's so true. Yep, I love that. I think that's a great place to end. The big disservice we do to each other is telling each other how we should feel. I think that's a beautiful place to wrap it up.
Speaker 2:So, you know, our intention today was really to just kind of delve into this idea and I love that we were able to do it, like with those five, like five rules or five ideas and thinking about them from a business but also a very personal perspective. And again, this all started with, like you know, some conversations we've had with other folks in our lives where it's like it's so hard for us to it's much easier to close in than it is to open up. And I just feel like you know, if you take nothing away from this episode, take away the, the, the reflection point of where am I on that spectrum and if I am closed in, what's one little thing that I heard from today that I could use as a beginning to start opening up? Right, knowing that on the other end of opening up is support and encouragement and all the things right that are that we need to be our best selves.
Speaker 1:Right and just knowing that all the things right that are, that we need to be our best selves right, and just knowing that you know allowing the people in your life that offer that support, the, the grace and the room to not be available when they don't feel they're available, you know that's not a weakness and you don't go oh, they failed me because they weren't there at one time. You know everybody needs that, that reset time, and I'm one of those. Like like I, I definitely value, especially now that I'm in like my forties like not that I'm old and decrepit by any means I really enjoy sleep and relaxation at this point in my life. It's weird, I never did before.
Speaker 2:What the heck? I know.
Speaker 1:I know and I'm just like you know what. Like I kind of like this because I'm allowing myself the space and time to think and to get my own thoughts and to connect with nature and do all the things that you know. The old phrase of like stop and smell the roses I believe in that shit. You know. Like if you don't stop and just take a look at your surroundings and how is it affecting you and how do you feel? And what are, what are all the feelers going on? You know, how do you know what's best for you? How do you know? You know. So it's all about slowing down and really looking at how you're giving and how you're receiving and what you're receiving.
Speaker 2:And yeah, and you made me think of one last thing, and that is that you know, in the drive that I had to make this week in Nevada, there's like I'm driving to a school district that's like three and a half hours North of Vegas, right, so fly into Vegas, get in a car, drive. There are literally a hundred mile stretches of that drive with nothing, nothing, nothing, right, and that includes no signal. And so I spent a lot of time this week with silence, right, because I could have like played an audio book that I have downloaded on my phone or whatever, but I chose silence and I got to tell you there's something really cathartic about that, like I'm not having any stimuli at all, except what I was driving through was desert and mountains and you know, whatever. So I love the idea of like taking some time to really give yourself a chance in the ways that you just described in the example. I just offered to do exactly that.
Speaker 2:So, all right, you guys, a couple of things for you to know. First off, obviously, this episode you can watch on YouTube. If you're listening right now, if you're watching on YouTube and you want to listen again, you can do that too on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and be sure to like, share and subscribe and do all the things. And as a little bit of a teaser, not to get ahead of ourselves, I didn't ask you if we should say this or not but I'm going to say it.
Speaker 2:I was going to say that you can edit it out, but we don't edit, so we don't edit shit. I'm not doing that. We are part of. What Jane and I are thinking about is how we create additional opportunities outside of the podcast to share some of this learning and share some of this expertise, et cetera, and so what we're putting together now is a series of workshops that we feel like would be really really incredible opportunities for us to share with a variety of different audiences. It could be audiences of parents, audience of women in leadership, audiences of young women, especially. All the different things.
Speaker 2:So, as you think about all the episodes and all the things that we've talked about, if there's something in particular you think would be of high value for us to hone in on in a setting like that, we would love to hear from you. So, in the notes of this episode is our email address. Send us a quick email and say, oh my God, you guys should design something around blank Right, and obviously, if you are in a space where you would, you would like something of that right. You have that, something that would be a value for you and your group. Let us know, cause we'd love to chat with you about it. That's just a little teaser, because we're just now starting to do it. We're just now starting to design it, so we don't want to go crazy, but yeah, we're excited about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it's going to be awesome. And you know, in, like Janice said, like anything that we've talked about, even just barely touched on, and you want to hear our opinion on it. Or you heard something and we haven't talked about it, and you want to know what our opinion is and you want us to do a show or a workshop or whatever. Tell us we're about it.
Speaker 2:I hear it Exactly. That's us being.