Cocoa Pods
Podcast - Cocoa Pods Series: A feature of the Birth Center Foundation.
We discuss all things' women, all things' pregnancy, all things' after. Reasons why women fall very sick ( morbidity) or die (mortality) before pregnancy (adolescent girls and young adults),during pregnancy and after are discussed in this maternal morbidity and mortality reduction academy; especially with an emphasis on minority women, all over the world; and ways for all involved in care to work together collaboratively and mitigate and or eliminate risks in women’s health.
Cocoa Pods
The Quest for Wholeness after Marital Treachery
When the vows of 'till death do us part' warp into a tale of betrayal and heartbreak, the journey to reclaiming one's joy can be arduous and transformative. Lillian's story, veiled under a pseudonym, is a gripping narrative that not only uncovers the raw pain of infidelity but also the empowering ascent towards healing. From the deceptive tranquility of her early marriage to the tumultuous discovery of her husband's unfaithfulness, Lillian's account is a profound exploration of love, loss, and the often-overlooked courage it takes to start afresh.
This episode is a mosaic of emotions, with each piece reflecting a different shade of Lillian's experience—from the daunting task of piecing together clues of betrayal to the gut-wrenching acceptance of her ten-year marriage's end. The poignant tales of motherhood in the midst of chaos, and the quest for spiritual clarity, paint a vivid picture of the resilience embedded deep within the human spirit. We walk with Lillian through the corridors of counseling sessions, family advice, and the quiet introspection that leads to life-changing decisions, ultimately embarking on a path that promises a future unshackled from the past.
In the sanctity of confessions and spiritual awakenings, our conversation with Lillian takes an inspiring turn as she speaks of finding solace in prayer, learning to let go of bitterness, and the pivotal role of faith in her healing process. Her journey is not just one of recovery but also of rebirth—discovering the essence of a true partnership and the strength to build a harmonious relationship. Lillian's narrative is a beacon of hope, a testament to the indomitable will to find happiness and love again, and a compelling portrayal of the power of prayer and forgiveness in the face of life's most profound challenges.
Hello and welcome to CocoaPods podcast. Today, we're very fortunate to have Lillian Of course, we've changed the name, this is a pseudonym and she's going to talk to us about her journey, her experience with relationships, marriage, actually and so, lillian, welcome to CocoaPods podcast.
"Lillian":Oh, thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here.
Dr Bola Sogade:So you know, you told us about your journey with your partner now.
"Lillian":Yeah.
Dr Bola Sogade:And about some of the difficulties that you guys had and that you guys married early. Can you just tell us about? You know how you know you first got together and the problems that you guys had? Yeah, you know you first got together and the problems that you guys had.
"Lillian":Yeah. So we got together in college very young, on 17, 18, went to college together, just got married at 22, 23, young. And then that's when the experience of marriage happened, as I like to call it. Everything was, you know, bloom. You're 18, 17 in love and well, thank you in love. And so that's when the marriage happened. After the wedding was over, I like to say that the wedding was over because, you know, we get the glitz and glam and the oh, you know, your wedding's so beautiful. I want my wedding to be like this and be like that. And now marriage happened.
"Lillian":So marriage happened very early on in our marriage. I want to say right after marriage actually. But it's crazy because signs will show way before then, but we choose to ignore the signs and, honestly, I got married for stability. I didn't get married because of love. I was never taught that. I was taught to get married and get someone that would take care of you. You know, love will come. That's what I was told. And so I got married the wrong way, you know. And so I got married the wrong way, you know. And so I got married for stability, not saying I didn't love him, but the love that he should have gotten from me being saying I do, and this is the one. You know. You made your vow in front of God. It should have been more than what I was giving, and I found that out later on. As I had, god had to deal with me and sit me in a quiet room with myself to, you know, reflect on me, and I had to reflect on me. He showed me me and I had to realize that.
Dr Bola Sogade:Okay, so you know the initial years. You know you guys were together, you guys actually had two kids, but then there were problems that made you actually leave the relationship.
"Lillian":Yes, so very early on. As I said, the science was there but I choose to ignore. So my problems was infidelity very early on, infidelity, insecurities, as they say, men don't grow up until they, whatever age, and he just wouldn't want to grow and I was growing and so infidelity started real early with us. I want to say not within not even a year of being married.
Dr Bola Sogade:It happened and that was with him. With him, okay. And so you said you had a little private detective thing going on there girl.
"Lillian":I was a private detective, I was a police officer, I was everything. So I how? I found out? Well, of course, like the science was always there, your women intuition, but it was early on. Like women call the house or call his phone and, um, he'll say, oh no, that's just a friend, or you know no, or he'd stand out late than usual, you know, and I was young. So I was just like, oh well, maybe he's at the club, I don't want to. You know, we had the baby young, so maybe he just want to still party.
"Lillian":You know not my naive thinking, but I knew something, but I didn't know. So when I start being the detective, as I like to call it, going through the phones and notice his patterns, like okay, every time he leaves he always take his phone, or oh, he's locking his phone more often, or he's staying out more often, or why he's always leaving to go talk on the phone. So when I started noticing that, I was like something is going on. So yeah, that's when I knew he was cheating, having affairs. I was like something is going on.
Dr Bola Sogade:So yeah, that's when I knew he was cheating, having affairs and you said you confronted him with this, like you know, angrily and stuff like that.
"Lillian":Yes, so I confronted him with it early on and of course it was always I'm sorry. And my husband was a gift giver, was a gift giver, and he, he, if he did something wrong here, go buy a gift you know, flowers, or card or car, anything to say my sorry gift. So in our, as young as I was, I accepted it. And growing up, how I grew up, I saw that pattern. I saw those toxicity, as I like to call it, or dysfunction family, as in the husband, grandpa was cheating, my dad was doing that too and my mom used to just pray. We'll just pray about it. So as I saw that, I was like, well, maybe that's what I'm supposed to do. So that's what I started doing, just grabbing his hand. Every time I catch him on the phone or catch something, grab his hand and just say, well, we're going to work it out, it's okay, and we'll pray, and about two weeks he'll be fine and then he'll get right back at it. It was just a pattern. It was a pattern. It went on for years.
Dr Bola Sogade:Wow, and so did you like reach out to. Well, you said you talked to your mom, but did you reach out to anybody like counseling, or church or family members?
"Lillian":No, because I was one embarrassed to growing up in my family home that you know you don't tell people your business, for one, and into counseling and stuff wasn't an option. You don't need counseling. Was your Jesus? Jesus is your counseling. So that's what I was doing. And need counseling was your Jesus. Jesus is your counseling. So that's what I was doing. And I was like mom, this is not working. I saying Jesus ain't doing what he's supposed to do. But no, you don't need to tell people your business. You know, whatever goes on in your house goes on in your house and things like that. That's what just men do. Men do that. But but that was my grandmother.
"Lillian":Now my mom was married for 16 years to my dad and she experienced it as well 60 years, 16. 16. 16 years she had me at 16, so I really grew up with mommy and so they got divorced in her 30s and I was 18. So I now saw the same patterns, same thing my dad was doing. I seen my husband was doing that and I'd recognize the patterns early on. Only only thing I didn't see was the fight in my mom. I saw her being submissive, kept going back and I thought, well, that's, I guess that's what you're supposed to do. You pray about it and you get back together. I guess this is what marriage is about. And yeah, until that day when I finally left and I told my mom and she had that heart to heart talk and that's when I realized, oh, that's not what she wanted to do. And she explained to me you know, sometimes you got to do what you got to do for the kids or for that moment until you gather your thoughts to figure out how to leave, like get an exit. So that's why she stayed. So we had that heart to heart moment at, I want to say, about 10 years into marriage. That's when I had enough and I told him no, I found out about he was just mom had a slight, was going through. She had a slight heart attack. Mom did. Mom had breast cancer twice and then she had a slight heart attack, just stress. She's already divorced dad at this time and me and my husband was just going through it and mom went to the hospital and I was just livid. I wasn't working and trying to find a job with two kids. He was working. He's always been a breadwinner and he's always been good stability-wise. So I was like, okay, I was a housewife. So I finally had that conversation with my mom. My mom was sick and so I went to the hospital to be with her.
"Lillian":Um, when I realized, like I came home one day and I was just, I was just exhausted being a mother, because I lost myself, being a wife, being a mother, just lost my identity, you know, um, because I was so much catering to him, trying to be his everything, because I couldn't, couldn't fathom, like, why are you trying to? Why are you cheating? I'm, I cook, I clean. You know I don't do this. I'm the perfect wife, I pray, I go to church. Why, you know? And I couldn't figure it out until later on. So, but it's, but it's good that I had that talk with mama um, after she had when she went through, and I called my husband, she was in hospital and, um, I said I'm done, we need to talk, and he was like, well, I'm done.
"Lillian":And I called my husband. She was in the hospital and I said I'm done, we need to talk, and he was like, well, I'm done and I'm leaving. I was like what I said? Well, you don't come to my house, You're not coming in his house late. If you come to his house late, we're done. So he did it anyway. So, and usually when he does that, I still take him back. You, I still take them back. You know we'll fight for us and we'll come back.
"Lillian":But that particular time I was done. It was 10 years. I was like I'm not going another 10 years and I was like we're done. And he said, well, fine. And when he said fine, it's kind of like, oh, you got somebody else, because usually he'll say no, let's talk about it. Remember, he was a gift giver. He'll just give gifts, sorry gifts, and I was so used to the pattern. But then when he said fine, I was like oh, you got somebody. But it didn't register because I still had to take him home, I still had to be a mom and I had to still be there for everyone else. You know, as women we wear many hats we're sister, counselor, mother, we're a housekeeper, we're, you know, we're shelves, shelves. We're everything to everyone. And at that moment I was like I can't be that, his wife to you. I have to be everything to mama at the time. So, yeah, so once he left, I it was like bang, you know, okay, he know, or do I know you?
"Lillian":know it was confusion, like do do he know I'm not? Do he know I'm tired? Or is it my fault this time? Is he really going to be there? But I can't focus on that because mom in the hospital. And so once mom got out the hospital I called him and he made it seem he was a manipulator. He made it seem like it was my fault.
"Lillian":And so I tried everything, still as a wife, to say, oh, let me pray, let's, let's pray here, go me again, let's pray, not saying nothing wrong with praying, but all let's pray, let this, let's come together and do this. And then that's when we went to counseling, went to counseling and in the counseling he told the counseling it was my fault, I didn't want to do this, I was this, I was that. And I'm like, oh, my God, you know, is it me? That's why he's doing these things, not knowing at the time he was all. He was always with another woman. He was with this woman, but he was he. I didn't know, but he was putting it out on me Like it's my fault and he's just single. He's staying in a hotel, but all the while, while we were in counseling everything, he was with another woman staying with her.
Dr Bola Sogade:At the time, Wow, that must have been shameful for you.
"Lillian":Mm-hmm, it was shameful and how I found out that he was with the other woman. I let go. After two, three months he wasn't home. He left and I kept calling him. He didn't answer and it was change for my kids because they so used to seeing him every day for not seeing him every day. They was running track. At the time, my oldest and he used to go pick them up and, you know, help them with homework and he just stopped. He just stopped and they didn't know what's going on. They're young.
Dr Bola Sogade:And this is their dad. That's their dad.
"Lillian":Yep, they didn't know what was going on Like what happened to dad, and I couldn't explain it Family coming over asking where he is in. My escape goal was he's in the military. So, oh, he's went, he went to, he went to drill or he went on vacation or, um, he went away with the military. So that was my escape goal for six months because of the shame because the shame.
"Lillian":I didn't want no one to know, didn't want to tell my mom. But mom knew she was waiting on me. So once she got, well, and everything, six months passed and no, still he was doing the same thing, and let me put that out there still didn't know he was with that woman, still didn't know he was staying with her. And but God was bringing dreams to me, okay, and he was bringing dreams. One dream, okay, and he was bringing dreams. One dream I had was I was dreaming I was in my house, but my house was full of snakes, right, and I'm like, oh, my God, you know. And but this one snake, it was a man in the house getting the snakes. He said, oh, you got a lot of snakes. He said, but you got one in your private area, right, and he pulled that snake out my private area and I woke up and I was like what was that? You know, jesus, you know what is going on Somebody around me, that's evil, you know. Immediately I started praying, because I do believe in Jesus and the devil. Um so um, once that dream came about and I said well, god, what is that? What, what is, what is that about?
"Lillian":And then every time my husband started coming around, he started back answering the phone and I was like well, why are you not answering the phone? You said you're in the hotel. Still my shame and still my denial. He's like I'm at the hotel with my friend and I called the friend and the friend said he's never stayed with me. He said I'm not going to be in it. And I told him this is his guy friend, best friend. He said nope, he has not been with me, he has never stayed with me. And I said oh okay, he's like no, he said I don't. He said no, this is what he told me. He said you know your husband better than me. He said you tell me. And that was like that denial, because what he was saying was you already know your husband, jeet, so I don't need to tell you what's going on, kind of thing and so.
"Lillian":But I didn't have any evidence, you know, because he wasn't there, I couldn't go through phones. I didn't know where he was he. You know cause he? He wasn't there. I couldn't go through phones, I didn't know where he was he. You know, communication was short. You talk about somebody who's been married to for 10 years and all of a sudden, all communication just cut off. You know you're not talking every day. I mean, he's just went ghost. He went ghost on the children, the children they confused. He was, I want to say he was about. My baby was about nine or 10 at the time, so he was confused. I want to say my baby was about 9 or 10 at the time, so he was confused. The oldest 9 or 10. So the baby was about 4. About 6, I want to say 6. So they're confused. They don't know what's going on.
"Lillian":I'm in denial, I'm ashamed. And God was just giving me dreams and he's giving me stuff. I wasn't working and so I had to find a job. And then I started finding a job in healthcare. And I found a job in healthcare and I was doing good and, um guys, god told me to stop praying. I heard with him just say pray and I'm like I want to leave. So I got angry, I got bitter and then but it was also a sense of relief Like oh, finally I can let him go, finally we can get a divorce. But I was also bitter and I was like God, why I'm bitter, he's not here, I don't have to deal with this anymore. I can get a divorce.
"Lillian":So I filed for divorce and my mom called me one morning and she said hey, she called me every morning at six. I said hey, and she said what's wrong. I said nothing is wrong. She said something is wrong. I'm on my way. I was like mom nothing is wrong, she said something is wrong. So she came over, she sat down on the couch and she said what's wrong? And I told her. It just came out and she said I knew, I knew. And she said this is what's going to happen. That woman she's going to call you your husband's going to say he's sorry and he never want to be with her. This is going to happen. She just gave me the downplay.
Dr Bola Sogade:Like a blueprint.
"Lillian":Like a blueprint. Play the blueprint like a blue. This is gonna happen and I was like okay, like a playbook like a playbook.
"Lillian":This is what's gonna happen. And I kid you not, it happened the exact same way. Mom happened not immediately, but it happened the exact same way. Um, so the dreams kept coming. After I had that conversation with mom, dreams kept coming. So finally he started calling back right and answering the phone because I got, I got a job now and and I was like, listen, I get off, I need you to get the kids. And he was like, okay, you know. So he started getting the kids. But when I get off work, it's just like.
"Lillian":An exchange was so awkward. And I remember one day when we was, I was getting off and he was leaving out the house. He stopped me and he said can you pray for me? And, and he was leaving out the house, he stopped me and he said can you pray for me? And I was like why he's like I need for you to pray for me. And we prayed together outside of the house.
"Lillian":And that same day I entered inside of the house and I looked down our hallway and I seen an entity, literally an entity, a person in my hallway and I was, of course, scared. Who wouldn't be scared? You think you see somebody? And I'm like Lord now. I know I believe in you and the enemy, but I know I ain't seen no ghosts or no demon in my house.
"Lillian":Of course you hear about these things on TV People talk about it already or whatever but me, seeing it for myself, I said something is wrong and I remember telling my mom, calling my mom, and I told her and she was like girl you know, and I shared it with my husband and his exact word was oh, they're coming from me, they coming from me, and I'm like what does that mean? You know what? What are you talking about? And so I was scared to sleep in my own home. For two days out of the week I stay at my mom's house because I was scared to sleep in my own house. I've seen these entities every time my husband leaves my house.
Dr Bola Sogade:Where were the children?
"Lillian":They're in their bedrooms sleep because I got off about 12 at night.
Dr Bola Sogade:So when you stay at your mom's house, you take them with you.
"Lillian":Mom go picks them up from school while I go to work and they'll stay there, and then I leave work and go stay with mom.
"Lillian":Yeah, so it was, it was, it was a time. And then, um, he came and um, every time he came to that house he'll leave something, as I say. And uh, I was like, is this a paranormal activity? What's going on? Do I need an exorcist?
"Lillian":And I shared it with that's when I started opening up with mom and mom said you know, and I was like well, mom, why did you stay with my dad? You know you stay with him. And she said well, I'm not telling you to stay. She said, but I will tell you to do what's best for you. She said that's your marriage. I can't tell you what to do, but I'm not telling you to stay. I said well, why did you stay?
"Lillian":She said because you guys was young and I didn't want you to grow up without a dad. I said but I grew up in a toxicity environment. I see you guys fight. I never heard you I love you from you guys. I never. You got never seen you guys being affectionate. I always saw you guys was mad and angry.
"Lillian":And she said I didn't know that I thought I was doing what's best for y'all by staying with your father, by keeping y'all together, cause I thought I was doing what's best for the children. And she said now I realized that what's best for the children is for you guys not to be in a toxicity environment. But it's too late for me, but it's not for you, so you did the right thing. She said I want you to let him go. And I was like, okay. So that's when, of course, I already filed for divorce.
"Lillian":But I was hesitant because I'm like do I Cause I still loved him. It's like, well, why do I still love him? And she said that's natural. She said but I want you to proceed with it. And I was like, okay, I'm not telling you what to do, but I want you to, because I don't want you to be like me, you know, holding on to something for 16 years and fighting with with that thought, like did I do the right thing or did I not do it?
"Lillian":So yeah, so we had that talk and I never heard that from her and she said you know, I was angry at my own mama for staying with my daddy for doing the same thing. She said but my mama told me he's taking care of you, you're fed. He don't do this, he don't do that. You got a roof over your head, right? So go back to him. It's worse things that could be happening. And she said she never forgave her mom for that and to be in the same situation her mom in and now she has a daughter in the same situation. And I looked at her that day and I said somebody got to stop it, somebody got to stop this generation curse.
Dr Bola Sogade:Yeah, and I stopped it well, you said um, you moved to another city because you, you, you felt everybody was talking about you, you were ashamed of everything. Can you just tell us about that?
"Lillian":Yeah. So after I found out about the no let's, let's go back to the dream. So once I dreamed I was praying for him and everything like that Fast forward, he's. He's, he's in the military. So he was about to leave and he wanted to see the children. This is nine months. While he was about to leave and he wanted to see the children this is nine months while he was gone. He left. So it's about nine, ten months.
"Lillian":While he left and he said, well, I'm about to go. I said can I see the kids? Sure, you can come see the babies. And he left his bag and he said, hold on, I forgot my other bag at the hotel. I was like, okay, cool. Well, nine months in, I haven't seen him. I'm off out for divorce, I'm about to be done. I don't care what you do, whatever the case may be.
"Lillian":I was at peace with just like we're not going to be together, we're co-parenting. I was just trying to wrap my head around like we're going to be co-parenting. I was just at peace and in my mind I moved on, you know, and I went through his bag. He left the bag and that's when I saw another phone and on his screensaver was him and the new woman. And that's when I was like, oh, you got a whole woman, you know. That's when I realized, and of course I confronted him about it, and all the emotion that I thought I let go, that I moved on from him, came back and I was livid and I let out a cry so bad. And, um, I showed it to him. Of course he lied and denied it. Oh, that's, you know. She wanted to do this. So what do you get this new phone? Why you got a new phone? This is two phone. So he was living a double life. And that's when it it came to reality, like, here's your proof, you know.
Dr Bola Sogade:And of course he lied and um, you used the word that if you were a witch, you would have put it if I was a witch, I would have put a curse on him and that girl.
"Lillian":I was so angry, I was so bitter. I was like Lord, I'm angry and I can't. I can't, I don't know how not to be angry. If you say a, if you say a name close to his or to that girl name, I, if I was a witch, I catch a spell. Yes, I was bitter, I was bitter. I was angry because I'm like why would you do this to me? I never did anything to you to hurt you in that matter of way. Why would you do that to me? Of course, the lies kept coming and, um, yeah, so I, I, I packed up and I moved, he, he, he. He said, well, I have a job. No, he said, I have a job and would you like to go? And I was like sure. So we ended up moving there and, um, I told him you stay back, you stay back in Florida, and I'm going to move. And that's how I started healing.
Dr Bola Sogade:So you went with the children. I mean you had to get an apartment, get a job, really start a new life and you know fast forward. You know you guys are still married and you are happily married this time. So in between you know what happened. I mean number one did, did. Did you seek counseling? Does he have a psychological condition? Did the military do something to him? First of all, how was that new stage of living in a new place? You really don't know anybody. Intentionally, you wanted that to be and you had a new job. You're starting a new life.
"Lillian":It came to be is because I had to first sit in my mess. I had to first heal on my own. I had to learn how to heal and learn that it's okay to not be, okay.
"Lillian":I know a lot of people you know. When we be hurt or something going on, we always say how are you doing? Oh, I'm okay. I know a lot of people you know. When we be hurt or something going on, we always say how are you doing, oh, I'm okay, I'm okay. And some people don't know how to say I'm not okay. And I had to learn to say I'm not okay, I'm not okay, not only to people, but to myself, I'm not okay. And so I learned how to just spend time with myself, spend time with God.
"Lillian":We did start going to counseling and I pastor counseling counseled us and let him know what he did was wrong and let him know that he had a soul tied and he was like what is this? And while he was ministering to him, the wife was ministering to me because they went through the same thing, so she could relate. So she was ministering to me because they went through the same thing, so she could relate. So she was ministering to me and she was like you need to stop making him your God. As in putting him first in everything you know. As in she said you.
"Lillian":She said I love my husband but he's not my God. She said you have to learn how to stop making him your God, your. This is my number one. Yes, he's your husband, but he's not your number one priority. She said find you a hobby. She said you can't stop him from doing anything he doesn't want to do Because me, I was trying to be proactive. Well, I'm going to catch him before he do it again and I'm going to do this. She said no, that's miserable. Find you a hobby. If he's going to do it, he's going to do it and leave. Don't stay this time because you're teaching him how to treat you.
"Lillian":And I was like, okay, I got it, got it Got it, you're teaching him how to respect you and you're also teaching him how to love you and he's not loving you properly. He don't know how to love you, she said. It looks like both of you guys don't know what love is. So we went to counseling and counseling helped him, but it didn't help me because I was still bitter, I was still, I was angry. I couldn't let it go because it was. It was 10 years of suffering, it was 10 years of pain and you want me to let it go in one year. I couldn't do it.
Dr Bola Sogade:And it was more of emotional pain and suffering.
"Lillian":It was more emotional pain and he's just like, oh, let's get over it, oh, it's done. And God did a work on him and he did a mighty work on him and we separated for a year. Let me put that out there. We was gone for a year. I was in this for a whole year and he, we was gone for a year. I was in this for a whole year and he was in Florida and and God was doing the work on him.
"Lillian":But I was getting bitter and angry about a moment and I seen the work God was doing to him. He was changing. He was being more attentive to his, his children, he was loving himself more, he was I mean, respectful towards me and he was showing himself like I'm about to go here, I'm about to go here, I'm about to go there, you know, leaving his phone around, just doing things out the normal to gain my trust, and. But I didn't trust him and I was angry and I kept throwing up, throwing in his face of his past. You used to do this and I remember and that's even when I got back with him, even when we got back together, I still was bitter towards him and I remember him sending me down and said you know how I met God was through you, he said, because I grew up in a church. But the experience that you had with God, I wanted that experience. He said don't let me take you far away from God because of what I did to you. And I was like and that was my moment, like, oh my God. And he's like, so don't let me do this to you. He said you have to love yourself more than that. He said I know what I did was wrong and I do apologize. There's nothing I can do to take that back, but you're going to have to let this go. You know, if you choose us to be back together, you have to let this go. And I'm like you don't tell me what to do. You know, still angry.
"Lillian":But God sat me down and he said what you're trying to fix is the surface. This is an infrastructure, this is a generation thing going on. It's not what you think it is. It's more than what you think what it is. He said but if you get out of my way, you know if you're trying to, if you stop trying to be God and start trying to be me, I will show you. So, instead of you trying to fix it. I created him, let me fix him. So that's what happened. I just got out of God's way and start praying more and told God, you know. So when I get mad, when those thoughts start coming in my head, I said God, that's your child, fix him, you know, or teach me how to pray for him. And I had to learn how to pray for him. Instead of praying what I thought was good prayers, god said I had to learn how to pray for my husband. And God also showed me how to be a wife, yeah, how to be quiet when I need to be quiet, how to stop.
"Lillian":You know when you get angry. Stop saying things. You know hurtful things, because that's not love. If you know what God is, you know God is love. That's not how God do love. So why would you do that to your husband If you keep throwing up what he used to do to you in your face because you're still angry and bitter? You don't? You shouldn't took him back. Why would you take him back to torture him like?
Dr Bola Sogade:that In our upcoming episode we talk more with Lillian and Charles. Thank you for listening to CocoaPods Podcast.
