Cocoa Pods
Podcast - Cocoa Pods Series: A feature of the Birth Center Foundation.
We discuss all things' women, all things' pregnancy, all things' after. Reasons why women fall very sick ( morbidity) or die (mortality) before pregnancy (adolescent girls and young adults),during pregnancy and after are discussed in this maternal morbidity and mortality reduction academy; especially with an emphasis on minority women, all over the world; and ways for all involved in care to work together collaboratively and mitigate and or eliminate risks in women’s health.
Cocoa Pods
Breaking the Bonds of Legacy: Healing Through Dialogue and Counseling in Marriage
When Charles sat down with us, his voice carried the weight of a journey through heartache and healing; he spoke of the struggle to break free from the chains of generational curses and the redemptive power of open, honest family dialogue. His narrative unfolds through missed connections with father figures and a tumultuous road through marriage difficulties, divorce, and the hard-won path to reconciliation. Charles's story is more than a personal testament; it's a beacon for anyone fighting to forge a different path, underpinned by the discovery of spiritual solace and the courage to confront the past head-on.
This episode takes us into the intimate corners of marriage counseling and the art of communication, where Charles and I unearth the transformative effect of professional guidance and the unexpected wisdom found in couples counseling each other. He shares how the support of family and friends, alongside regular relationship check-ins, became a lifeline in his marriage. If you've ever wondered about the ripple effects of parental conflict or how financial unity and shared interests can reinforce a partnership, let Charles's experiences offer insights and hope for creating a lasting, loving bond.
So again it's breaking that generational curse.
Dr Bola Sogade:Hello and welcome back to CocoaPods podcast. My name is Dr Bola Sogade, I'm a women's health specialist and I'm your host, so we continue in these conversations about difficult relationships. Please keep listening to CocoaPods podcast, thank you. So we continue our discussions with Charles.
"Charles":So that bond between me and my dad, it wasn't. Now I can talk to him as we got older, but then, like I said, I just feel he was never there.
"Charles":So, yeah, I just didn't have that bond with my dad. I chose to go and talk to cousins and my cousins they was single and plus Seeing what they do. Like I said, it's just that model. It's just that model my granddad passed when I was 18. I know, if my granddad was here, I would have listened to my granddad because he probably would have whooped me with his cap, but I would have listened to him because I was very close with my granddad, my grandmother and my granddad. I was very close with my grandmother and granddad. My grandmother and granddad were still married as well, so I was very close to them. Like I said, that generational curse, I wish I could have broke that earlier than now. I wish I should have. I could have broke that earlier than now. I wish I should have, I could have. But that modeling, that modeling was everything for me and I just couldn't break that mold. It's like once you got that model on you, it's hard to get that model off your back.
Dr Bola Sogade:Wow, so you are breaking a generational curse. That's right. Wow, Now you guys have a very unique situation because I see a lot of women every day in that you went through all of this. I think your wife said you actually got divorced like officially.
"Charles":Yes, yes.
Dr Bola Sogade:But you're together now, you guys are happier. And she talked about just feeling shame, you know, and like, oh my goodness, what will her friends say? What will her family say? She's divorced. And she just felt shame. I mean, what were you feeling during this period of all of this?
"Charles":I was embarrassed as well, but I was ashamed. I said all the shame part comes from me hurting her. I couldn't face a lot of my family members and everyone knows what happened and I understand she's I mean her shame. I understand that. But I had people rooting At the time I found out I had people rooting for our divorce so and that was some family members.
"Charles":So I was like, wow, for his family. I thought family would come to me. You know, hey, you know you was messing up. You know, get yourself together. I didn't have that. I didn't have that.
"Charles":I have a close friend, a buddy of mine. That's like my brother. He called me, my biological brother, he called me and I had one cousin that was calling me and telling me you know, hey, we all mess up, but it's what you do afterwards. You know, if y'all going to divorce, divorce in a good state of mind, don't divorce in a conflict situation. And I was telling like I told him, I said, man, I don't want a divorce. So and my brother, he was like, well, what you going to do to fix it? And my cousin, he told me, he said this is going to be the hardest part of your marriage is trying to make this thing work. He said, man, it's those who choose to fight and those that choose not to, you choosing not to. So he said because fight? He said, man, I don't want to see y'all divorced because that's your light, she is your light. Don't let that light go dark. So I love my cousin for that. He's a good guy, a great guy, and I took that. He's actually younger than me, so I took that and I ran with it.
"Charles":My mom, like I said, my mom and dad still married. My grandmother, my granddad, still married. How would it? No, I'm not getting a divorce, I'm going to choose to fight. And I ended up talking to my dad about the whole situation and he was like I've been there and done that. So I feel if I would have had that talk with my dad earlier, I wonder that we never would have been through this whole situation.
"Charles":I didn't, like I said, I didn't have that talk with my dad. I didn't have that. I talked to everyone else besides my dad and I just felt I should have talked to my dad before I went to everyone else. But over the years I never had that bond with my dad like that, so I always had other people to try to call, but my cousins, like I said, I talked to them every day and he always told me you know, I'm going to call you. Yeah, he told me literally and he did it. He called me every day.
"Charles":What you did today, cuz, and I broke him down, walked him down with everything I done. He said, cuz, sometimes you got to do a little bit more, because now you got to gain her attention back, y'all was going to get a divorce. That means a divorce. It was over, there was no fixing. So now you're trying to fix it, you're trying to fix your marriage.
"Charles":He said, man, you can't have stuff. You got to go all the way, you got to kick the doors in. So, and that's what I chose to do, I chose to stay in, I chose to fight Like to stay in. I chose to fight, like I said, still to now, I still have family members that still want us divorced, but I'm not gonna give them that. I'm sure that God can work in mysterious ways and I am a changed man and I choose to walk in the way that God want me to go. So, and by me walking in that way, I'm choosing to walk in the way that God wants me to go. So, and by me walking in that way, I'm choosing to walk with my wife. So we're going to fight to the end.
Dr Bola Sogade:Wow, I love your choice of words. You know fighting. I just want to go to the pain. The provider she talked about how you know, if you messed up, you would, you know, shower her with gifts and then she would forget? I mean, did you feel was that helping your ego? Did you feel there's something we talk about, the God complex. Did you feel like you know I'm. You know I'm the man. I'm going to provide everything. I'm like God to this woman.
"Charles":You know, because I was doing that. Like I said, it's mentality how I was raised. I was doing that because my dad that's one thing my dad always told me. Regardless of what be a provider, gifts always change a woman's mind. Gifts, I always change a woman's mind, and so I used to watch my dad buy my mom flowers. I used to watch my dad when he's over the road. He always come back with something for my mom. I never asked questions to my dad, but so that's what I seen. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna take that and I'm gonna fly it.
"Charles":So when me and her got together oh man, think, what a weekend I just started buying anything. I just got to the point I just started giving her anything. I just got to the point I just started giving her my credit card. As we got older, I started buying her jewelry. I always order clothes. I show her you like this. I order some clothes for her. I order some shoes for her cars, and I know that'll keep a smile on her face Through it all.
"Charles":She can be embarrassed about everything. But I feel, with a gift where people can look at it, they can say what they want, but at the same time, this gift that's making up for me, because I know I did a lot of wrong in our marriage and I'm not trying to buy a gift to make her forget. I'm buying gifts because she deserves it. You know, I'm not saying that buying gifts erase all everything that I've done, but you know I want her. If she's going to walk out there and be shamed, she's going to look good doing it so and that's where the whole gift thing is coming from. I'm a giffer regardless. I'm a giffer at heart and that's what I stand on.
Dr Bola Sogade:Did that make you feel like how did that, what did that do to you?
"Charles":It's an ego. It's an ego If she leave me today. I always told her. I said if you leave me today. I said I don't think it would be hard to find a man that would do that, that would buy you gifts before he buy himself a gift. That's just how I looked at it. That's how I always thought of it. I said my goal is to make it hard for the next man. He got to be 10 times better than me. Wow, that's how I see it. I'm going to make it hard for the next man.
Dr Bola Sogade:Now let me ask you if this had been reversed, like if she had been the one that you know, stepped out of the marriage and got with another man that gave her more, for instance how would you have reacted to that?
"Charles":Oh man. And she asked me that before and I told her.
Dr Bola Sogade:I said oh man, I got to go work some more. But would you be angry? I mean, would you be jealous? I?
"Charles":would be jealous, I would be jealous. See, no, I don't have a jealous bone in my body, but at that I would have been jealous. Be jealous. So you know, I don't have a jealous bone in my body, but at that I would have been jealous, very jealous. It would have made me step it up even more. Instead of buying smaller things, I probably would have went bigger. I would have went bigger.
"Charles":Probably, oh man, I would have been broke. I'll tell you that much, because now it feels like we're in competition. So yeah, oh man, I don't think about it. But yeah, if she would have, I mean, whoever she choose, I still would have been happy with it, but I would have fought, I would have made it hard for her. Like I said, I know he's doing it, but I already have a heart. So the competing part I wasn't worried about. I know who she was going to be with. So that's a confident thing for me. Like I said, another thing my ego. I have a big ego where I feel there's no other man that could compete with me with her love. He can buy her this, buy her that and buy her this, but he don't have a heart. I have a heart and I'm not going to let that heart go.
"Charles":So I'm going to applaud her, but I know she's not going to stick with him because of those gifts. You can shower someone with gifts, but you can't shower with love. Like I said, I had her love, I had her heart. He doesn't. So that would have made it a little bit more easier for me, because I know she loves me and she'll never, no matter what, we're going to always love each other, but I wasn't worried about another man though.
Dr Bola Sogade:Wow it's funny how the men are not worried about another man, though. Wow, it's funny how the men are not worried about another man, but then the women are worried about another woman. That is crazy. But let me ask you, if there's a young couple at that stage where you guys were young couple, at that stage where you guys were, you know, with the arguing stage at this day and age, what would you recommend that they do so that it doesn't, you know, escalate down to being separated, being divorced? What can they put in place? Now, you know, once they see that they're arguing all the time, they can't get along. They don't seem to be able to stand each other.
"Charles":I feel they should come together and talk.
Dr Bola Sogade:But they can't stand each other. They're not seeing eye to eye.
"Charles":They have to put their differences aside, especially if they have kids. You have to put differences aside to be able to talk as an adult, because arguing, you see, it's not getting nowhere arguing. So someone had to be the mature one to okay. Okay, let's do this, take it a different approach Because, like I said, with the clashing, it'll never work.
"Charles":It'll never work because I'm mad at them for doing this, I'm mad at him for doing this and she's mad at him for doing this and he's mad at her for this, and they're going to always argue Always. You did this back then. You did this back then.
Dr Bola Sogade:That sounds like the woman they're the ones that I remember all the way back, yeah.
"Charles":And you know you have some men that try to throw shade as well. But throwing shade only stir up the fire. It don't put the fire out, because now she's trying to outdo him. Well, you remember you did this and this I said it never works. So I feel marriage counseling works, but you got to give it 100%.
Dr Bola Sogade:You have to be 100% honest.
"Charles":Honesty goes a long way. You have a lot of men. That's not honest and you have some females. That's not honest. Honesty goes a long way. In a marriage you respect each other more, but you just have to try to work it out. Talk to each other. The arguing only pushes a marriage further and further away. So you want to get it to the point where you're bringing each other closer and closer, more and more in, because you got two different egos, two different personalities and you're try to make it as one. Marriage is a teamwork, so if you're not willing to work as a team, it's going to be hard. It's going to be hard. So I suggest marriage counseling. Try to do more and more things together. Come together. Look at the kids. Your kids in the room will make a difference. Because the arguing and going back and forth the child sees that he's going to mimic that, regardless of what kids mimic, that he feels that's part of a child's upbringing, of seeing his parents going back and forth. So he feels when he get older he got to do the same thing. That's what makes his relationship work. When it don't, so again it's breaking that generational curse of of trying to get the one up on your wife or on your husband. So, sitting down, grown conversation.
"Charles":Change the narrative. That's what I tell any married couple that's going through anything. Change the narrative. So, man, there's so many things that there's so much out there. There's books you can read. There's marriage counseling. There's pastors that's willing to talk to you. I choose to. I talk with my uncle. He's a pastor. There's a couple more pastors that I talked to and you know I had one pastor, only one, that said you know what? I've been through? The same thing. So there's always someone out there you can talk to that's going through the same thing that you're going through and the only thing that pastor he always told me I take this and I use this. I apply it today again. Change the narrative. Change the narrative so I encourage anyone that's going through it. Again. Change the narrative if you know you want to be there. Change the narrative so you know you want to be there. Change the narrative so that's how I feel about it.
Dr Bola Sogade:Wow. But you know this is powerful what you're talking about. But you talk about it's not like a one-time thing, that you or her are getting some kind of therapy, because I know the young people these days they call it, you know go for therapy and they don't, they have no shame about it anymore. Like, just like you're going to get your pap smear done or your physical, you should go see your therapist, no big deal. So it should be, you know, like not a one time thing. You know it should be like a frequent thing so that you can keep reinforcing the behavior, right.
"Charles":It can be a two week thing Every two weeks you want to, you know, reach out to someone or a month, once a month thing, just to keep checking in my brother. I talk to my brother every day. He's married and we talk about married thing Plus both of us we love. He's married and we talk about married things Plus both of us. We get the enjoyment of talking about cars at the same time. I see, from the kind of cars you guys have and I call him, ask him about this or he'll call me, hey, what you think about this. And so I have my brother that's in my corner as I feel, my therapist, my dad. Oh man, sometimes I'm on the phone with my dad 11, 12 o'clock, one o'clock in the morning, you know, and we just talking and we talk about. Sometimes we talk about marriage, sometimes we talk about life. You know, I have my best friend, which I call him my brother too. Me and him talk about well, he's not married but he's in a relationship and me and him talk about relationships. We always do this therapy thing.
"Charles":You know, you don't necessarily have to go through it with a preacher or go to marriage counseling, you don't have to always go through. Well, I say it like this my approach is not for everyone. You have to choose your own approach. It's not for everyone. You have to choose your own approach.
"Charles":I just choose to get with people that are married, that have successful marriages, and talk with them about situations, instead of talking to someone single. Someone single is going to be like, come on out there with me, they don't care, but I know the marriage couple is going to be like okay, don't step out that way, Go this way, and I choose to follow the marriage couple more than the single. So, man, it's a mindset that you got to have when you're married. I said the devil. He works in mysterious ways, just like God works in mysterious ways. The devil works harder because the devil knows what you like, knows what you want. God knows what you like and knows what you want, but the devil's going to work harder to try to get you to break that covenant. So you have to walk in the way the Lord wants you to before it's being married, because it's hard, it's hard, it's hard.
Dr Bola Sogade:So yeah, wow, thank you for that, you know. I just wanted to circle back to you know, when you were young, the pastors we didn't have that effect on you, and now, as an older person, you're able to relate with people that are actually making change and there's also a place for professional counseling making change and there's also a place for professional counseling.
Dr Bola Sogade:So, even though you've surrounded yourself with different levels of counseling experience, there's also a room for professional counseling, and you did mention that at times people might have to go to marriage counseling. But you can individualize it, for yourself.
"Charles":Yes, ma'am, you have to make it where it works for you. Like I said, my way may not work for them, but you have to look at a way that'll work for their marriage. Like I said, we're going through our ups and downs marriage counseling, professional marriage, counseling, pastors. I did everything, pastors, I did everything. But I feel our biggest counseling was me and her counseling each other, and that was help that brought us closer, because we counseled each other, we talked to each other and just poured out to each other, and I feel that's where the counseling first start. You have to put down self-demons and you have to get rid of those, the selfish, the self.
"Charles":It's not about self, no more, it's us. So you can't worry about the whole me, me, me, me, me. And that's what a lot of marriages get messed up with. It's me, me, me, no, it's us. It's me, me, me, no, it's us. So my account is her account. I don't ask her about her account you mean?
Dr Bola Sogade:you mean financial account?
"Charles":yeah, oh, of course yeah, so.
"Charles":I look at it, it's a us thing. You know, we do everything together, Something that she does I don't like to do. But I know, like I said, I'm big on cars. She's willing to deal with me, with me talking about cars, buying cars, working on my car and doing things like that. I said, man, I'm open to doing things with her as well. So I just had to put that exception into the side and just you know what. Let's do this. I'm going to compromise with you. I'm going to compromise with you Because she sit there all night. I put her on TV and watch racing all night, All night long, and she in there trying to sleep and all of a sudden she hear vroom and she'll wake up and look at me, just shake her head and you know, I just feel she deal with me during that.
"Charles":Oh man, I got to deal with her with whatever else she want to do, Wow.
Dr Bola Sogade:Wow, you know, I'm just so glad that you talked about just all the different ways. For you know, we talk about married couples, but for anybody really in serious relationships, like surround yourself with people that can give you good advice, good counseling and check in on a regular basis, that's what you're saying.
"Charles":Yes, ma'am, yes, ma'am, like I said, you don't have to be a counselor. Counselor it can be family members, other married couples. Like I said, any counseling can work. Like I said, me and my brother, we talk almost every day. But if we don't talk every day, we're going to call each other at least once a week.
Dr Bola Sogade:In our upcoming episode we talk more with Charles.
